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(The Hollywood Reporter)   Akiva Goldsman assures fans there is a point and central focus to Star Trek: Discovery   ( hollywoodreporter.com) divider line
    More: PSA, Star Trek, Klingon, United Federation of Planets, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Burnham, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Starfleet, Lorca  
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1180 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 02 Oct 2017 at 1:38 AM (41 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-10-01 10:48:19 PM  
The ending to the last episode was great.
 
2017-10-01 11:23:37 PM  

CipollinaFan: The ending to the last episode was great.


Hush you. The Fark hivemind has decided the new Star Trek is not worthy of the mantle.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2017-10-02 12:06:59 AM  

gilgigamesh: CipollinaFan: The ending to the last episode was great.

Hush you. The Fark hivemind has decided the new Star Trek is not worthy of the mantle.


It's no Star Trek:The Orville.
 
2017-10-02 12:50:14 AM  

jbc: gilgigamesh: CipollinaFan: The ending to the last episode was great.

Hush you. The Fark hivemind has decided the new Star Trek is not worthy of the mantle.

It's no Star Trek:The Orville.


Bingo.

It's practically a philosophical question - if a producer explains the central focus to a show no one's watching, will anyone care?
 
2017-10-02 01:18:53 AM  
Since my American friends don't get to watch Discovery on TV like we do in Canada I will share with you details from Episode 3.
::SPOILERS::
::SPOILERS::
::SPOILERS::
::SPOILERS::
::SPOILERS::
::SPOILERS::
::SPOILERS::
::SPOILERS::
It should have been Episode 1 with Episode 1 and 2 shown as a prequel at a later date.

Captain Paul Newman Eyes: Come join Discovery, we have cookies. Also, I'm cunning as fark and you're all just play things in my grand scheme.

Cadet Adorkable: I'm gonna be the Wesley Crusher of this show but I'm so cute you won't mind.

Lt. Sassy-pants: It's taking every ounce of restraint I have not to end every sentence with Z-snaps.

Tosha Worf: I'm a bad ass, you can tell because I don't emote.

Commander Proto Data: I haven't done anything so far but break continuity.

Commander Coward: Still scared of everything.

As for the show: Here's a lot of technology that's more futuristic than anything we've ever seen on Star Trek before but somebody thought "Breath Scans" as a security feature was a good idea.

It was a better episode than 1 and 2, but still doesn't feel like Star Trek. It might be a good military space opera if they had just made it its own franchise instead of stick Star Trek on it.

As for what the mission of STD is: They're trying to harvest the awesome power of Midichlorians. (not even joking here)

Easter Egg: Keep your eyes out for the Gorn.
 
2017-10-02 01:30:15 AM  
Oh and the episode had just plain stupid dialogue like (indicating the ominous looking officer guarding a door holding a BFG) "I've never seen anyone wearing a black Star Fleet insignia", she says to the prisoner who has also been wearing a black Star Fleet insignia the entire time.

But seriously, if this episode had been the freebie and then episodes 1 and 2 were shown at a later date as flashback episodes it would have generated a lot more interest for the show because it would have built a lot of intrigue around Michael's character plus it would have introduced you to the ship and crew you're actually supposed to care about. You'd be jumping into a Federation-Klingon war with no idea how it started but people blaming Michael for it. She was imprisoned for mutiny and her actions lead to the death of her former captain. It would have made her character much more interesting, it would have made the premise of the show a lot more interesting. It would have had a better hook to reel in subscribers since there would have been more of a mystery. Plus the 3rd episode was a lot more Star Treky than the first two.

And I swear to god I'm going to scream if it turns out the (non imprisoned) Black Badges are Section 31. It was bad enough in DS9 you had this sinister, shadowy secret organization that wore uniforms that just screamed out "Hey! We're a sinister, shadowy secret organization."
 
2017-10-02 01:36:04 AM  
Oh and other stupid dialogue in the episode. When Cadet Adorkable says "Michael, but you're a woman. I've never heard of a woman named Michael before except... OMG you're her!"

Seriously, a woman named Michael is not going to be in anyway surprising by the 23rd century. A whole slew of unisex names started out as male only names, like Logan, Sasha, and even Sissy. It would not surprise me if even now there aren't a few women out there named Michael.
 
2017-10-02 01:41:14 AM  
Oh and I thought for certain that when Cadet Adorkable mentioned how she couldn't have a roommate because of her "special condition" she was going to say she had autism. I was surprised when it was revealed that it was because she had allergies. They apparently have more advanced technology than has ever been seen in any incarnation of Star Trek but they still haven't been able to develop a cure to polyester allergies. Go figure.
 
2017-10-02 02:17:32 AM  

Ghastly: Easter Egg: Keep your eyes out for the Gorn.


Caught it.  Loved it.

I really liked the third episode, and it definitely should have been the start of the season.  The first two episodes were disposable backstory, and could have been split up and used as flashbacks.
 
2017-10-02 02:22:24 AM  

skyotter: Ghastly: Easter Egg: Keep your eyes out for the Gorn.

Caught it. Loved it.


I was even more :D than I was at the captain's pet tribble.
 
2017-10-02 02:46:40 AM  
Eh it was Star Trek/Alien episode. You get those once in a while. Hopefully Michael becomes more interesting later. Oh and....

Star Trek Discovery (Pilot Episodes) - re:View
Youtube 2RVf01en-YA
 
2017-10-02 02:56:53 AM  
Episode 3 sucked.

There's nothing Trek about it. A lot of grim, dour people snipping at each other. Starfleet sending people to labor in prison mines, and calling prisoners "garbage". Cronenberged crew members, lots of gore and dark hallways, and a giant Tardigrade as the main monster of the week. Michael continuing to be an unlikable character that borders on becoming a classic Mary Sue (she's Spock's previously-unmentioned sister, she is described as "the smartest officer in Starfleet" and everyone constantly tells us what an amazing officer she is despite her mutiny, she knows super-Vulcan karate, her comic relief roommate looks up to her, etc.)

This is not Star Trek. It's Dark Trek. It's some twisted retroactive Kelvin universe horror-action-scifi show that has Akiva Goldsman's stink ALL OVER IT.

Simon Pegg once argued that the Kelvin universe actually covers the WHOLE timeline, going backwards and forwards, and indicated that when old Spock entered the timeline everything about the Prime universe was changed all the way back to the Big Bang. That is the best explanation for what's going on in this show. This is the "Prime universe" but what they're indicating to us is that the Prime universe as we knew it no longer exists. It was all wiped out, and so the movies are the Kelvin universe, but the Prime universe is just about the same as the movies, now... And that's why we have a dark, grim, lens-flare filled Trek with Trek-anachronistic technology and events.

The Prime universe has been fundamentally altered... And it will never go back to the way it was. The hopeful, light, utopian society of Roddenberry's Trek is gone, replaced by something closer to the Mirror Universe or the grim setting for Battlestar Galactica.

I almost wish they'd made this a Mass Effect show. It might be awesome if it weren't trying to wedge itself into the Trek continuity, retconning and pissing on everything else along the way. This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.
 
2017-10-02 04:00:22 AM  

WilderKWight: and calling prisoners "garbage".


Nope.  Just the main character specifically.

Single-handedly starting the largest war in the history of both of the federation species' entire combined histories solely with the power of your personal bloodlust doesn't make you crazy popular in a civilization whose entire current goal is to overcome its natural warlike tendencies.

... and I think that's what people who make this complaint are missing.  This is a prequel series; humanity and the Vulcans have only resolved to try to overcome their violent roots and move forward at this point, they're only partway along the path.  The central conflict they seem to be setting up is that Michael and the captain of the ship are sort of the last of the old, ultraviolent breed of human/Vulcan trying to find a place in a civilization where they increasingly don't have a place.  It fits with the narrower focus of the series, where we're looking at basically one character as opposed to the whole crew like in other Trek series.

It's different structurally, but it's not necessarily bad, and at least it doesn't farking retcon everything for no farking reason like DS9 did.  And it's not actually portraying the action shiat as good, the whole point of the setup episodes was that Michael was a nuTrek-style alien-punching action hero with a gritty '90s extreeeeeeeme backstory, and it screwed everything up for everybody.  Like... literally everyone in a quarter of a galaxy or so.
 
2017-10-02 04:08:49 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Single-handedly starting the largest war in the history of both of the federation species' entire combined histories solely with the power of your personal bloodlust doesn't make you crazy popular in a civilization whose entire current goal is to overcome its natural warlike tendencies.


It could be argued that her killed the Klingon torch bearer sparked the war but that action was 100% an accident. Her mutiny had no bearing on the start of the war because it was quashed before she was able to carry out her attack on the Klingon ship. For all we know (unlikely though it may be) if she had succeeded in her mutiny the war may have been averted.

Captain Let's-desecrate-a-corpse is every bit as responsible for the war as Commander Micheal Tuvok.
 
2017-10-02 04:24:56 AM  
I wasn't crazy about the first two episodes either.  I was disappointed by Michelle Yeoh, who was pretty wooden, I thought, and the the whole mutiny thing seemed seriously contrived.  Commander shiats-his-pants needs to be beamed into space.  And for heaven's sake, why do the enemies have to be so obviously black???

I'm also getting kind of tired of the lengths the Trek universe goes to force connections with the other parts of the canon...Sarek?  Really?  The number of times that people in a federation spanning a galactic quadrant casually bump into people they/we already know is pretty shocking...I walked around for hours in the city I live in this weekend (pop 250,000) and didn't see anyone I knew, but the Federation ambassador to the Klingon empire shows up on the Enterprise and, yep, she used to date Worf.  I realize that issue isn't unique to Star Trek.

Hopefully it gets better...but I despair a bit for it.
 
2017-10-02 04:30:06 AM  

KWess: I'm also getting kind of tired of the lengths the Trek universe goes to force connections with the other parts of the canon...Sarek?


Well... maybe Sarek is a pretty common Vulcan name, like Dave or Bob.... and.... and maybe this Sarek just happens to be married to a human named Amanda.... and.... never mind.
 
2017-10-02 04:32:08 AM  

Ghastly: Captain Let's-desecrate-a-corpse is every bit as responsible for the war as Commander Micheal Tuvok.


I'll admit that I did kind of laugh out loud when their response to losing a battle that they themselves had started was a straight-up war crime.  But I don't think that was intentional writing, that was just the usual level of ST writers being a bit dim, like they are in every series.

All of the action-hero shiat repeatedly backfiring and making the situation infinitely worse was clearly written that way on purpose, though.  They made a big point of going over how vital it was to take the prophet alive, for instance, and then had Michael straight-up murder him because she was in rage mode.  And she was in rage mode because the captain had gotten herself stabbed in a fight that... well, they'd intentionally started.  The intended moral isn't particularly subtle, but that also just kinda makes it feel more like legit star trek to me.  This is a setting that's gone through five different series and still can't get through half an episode without someone saying the episode's moral aloud in a self-important tone.  No, you're saying the people painted half-black and half white represent racism?  Thanks, I'd never have picked up on that, Kirk.
 
2017-10-02 05:04:33 AM  

Jim_Callahan: No, you're saying the people painted half-black and half white represent racism? Thanks, I'd never have picked up on that, Kirk.


WHAT!?!? Is THAT what that episode was about? That subtlety flew right over my head obviously.
 
2017-10-02 05:12:47 AM  
Prime focus: Providing subscriptions for that CBS streaming service.

Question, is the service available outside the us, or not, like Hulu?
 
2017-10-02 05:44:49 AM  

WilderKWight: Episode 3 sucked.

There's nothing Trek about it. A lot of grim, dour people snipping at each other. Starfleet sending people to labor in prison mines, and calling prisoners "garbage". Cronenberged crew members, lots of gore and dark hallways, and a giant Tardigrade as the main monster of the week. Michael continuing to be an unlikable character that borders on becoming a classic Mary Sue (she's Spock's previously-unmentioned sister, she is described as "the smartest officer in Starfleet" and everyone constantly tells us what an amazing officer she is despite her mutiny, she knows super-Vulcan karate, her comic relief roommate looks up to her, etc.)

This is not Star Trek. It's Dark Trek. It's some twisted retroactive Kelvin universe horror-action-scifi show that has Akiva Goldsman's stink ALL OVER IT.

Simon Pegg once argued that the Kelvin universe actually covers the WHOLE timeline, going backwards and forwards, and indicated that when old Spock entered the timeline everything about the Prime universe was changed all the way back to the Big Bang. That is the best explanation for what's going on in this show. This is the "Prime universe" but what they're indicating to us is that the Prime universe as we knew it no longer exists. It was all wiped out, and so the movies are the Kelvin universe, but the Prime universe is just about the same as the movies, now... And that's why we have a dark, grim, lens-flare filled Trek with Trek-anachronistic technology and events.

The Prime universe has been fundamentally altered... And it will never go back to the way it was. The hopeful, light, utopian society of Roddenberry's Trek is gone, replaced by something closer to the Mirror Universe or the grim setting for Battlestar Galactica.

I almost wish they'd made this a Mass Effect show. It might be awesome if it weren't trying to wedge itself into the Trek continuity, retconning and pissing on everything else along the way. This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.


The boldly emo where no one has emoted before...
 
2017-10-02 05:57:50 AM  
They should have started with this one.  It still doesn't feel like Star Trek, but at least it doesn't feel as dumb as the pilot. This episode was actually paced really well, and had some characters to get interested in! Wild!
 
2017-10-02 06:02:58 AM  

born_yesterday: I almost wish they'd made this a Mass Effect show. It might be awesome if it weren't trying to wedge itself into the Trek continuity, retconning and pissing on everything else along the way. This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.

The boldly emo where no one has emoted before...


"The Federation is a broken old whore." - Frank Miller's 'The Dark Trek Returns'
 
2017-10-02 06:08:25 AM  

Ghastly: Jim_Callahan: No, you're saying the people painted half-black and half white represent racism? Thanks, I'd never have picked up on that, Kirk.

WHAT!?!? Is THAT what that episode was about? That subtlety flew right over my head obviously.


To be clear, I actually count the anvil-dropping nature of the messages as a positive.  It's a big part of the charm of the series that the writers feel that their messages are important enough to just tell the audience directly, and that they don't feel like they need to "trick" us into thinking the themes are deeper than they actually are by occluding them behind mixed metaphors and various other obfuscating nonsense.
 
2017-10-02 08:21:41 AM  

WilderKWight: Episode 3 sucked.

There's nothing Trek about it. A lot of grim, dour people snipping at each other. Starfleet sending people to labor in prison mines, and calling prisoners "garbage". Cronenberged crew members, lots of gore and dark hallways, and a giant Tardigrade as the main monster of the week. Michael continuing to be an unlikable character that borders on becoming a classic Mary Sue (she's Spock's previously-unmentioned sister, she is described as "the smartest officer in Starfleet" and everyone constantly tells us what an amazing officer she is despite her mutiny, she knows super-Vulcan karate, her comic relief roommate looks up to her, etc.)

This is not Star Trek. It's Dark Trek. It's some twisted retroactive Kelvin universe horror-action-scifi show that has Akiva Goldsman's stink ALL OVER IT.

Simon Pegg once argued that the Kelvin universe actually covers the WHOLE timeline, going backwards and forwards, and indicated that when old Spock entered the timeline everything about the Prime universe was changed all the way back to the Big Bang. That is the best explanation for what's going on in this show. This is the "Prime universe" but what they're indicating to us is that the Prime universe as we knew it no longer exists. It was all wiped out, and so the movies are the Kelvin universe, but the Prime universe is just about the same as the movies, now... And that's why we have a dark, grim, lens-flare filled Trek with Trek-anachronistic technology and events.

The Prime universe has been fundamentally altered... And it will never go back to the way it was. The hopeful, light, utopian society of Roddenberry's Trek is gone, replaced by something closer to the Mirror Universe or the grim setting for Battlestar Galactica.

I almost wish they'd made this a Mass Effect show. It might be awesome if it weren't trying to wedge itself into the Trek continuity, retconning and pissing on everything else along the way. This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Tr ...


It sounds like they should have set the show in the Star Fleet Battles universe.
 
2017-10-02 08:44:52 AM  

KWess: I wasn't crazy about the first two episodes either.  I was disappointed by Michelle Yeoh, who was pretty wooden, I thought, and the the whole mutiny thing seemed seriously contrived.  Commander shiats-his-pants needs to be beamed into space.  And for heaven's sake, why do the enemies have to be so obviously black???


The pilot episode/s were almost constant exposition dump, so much tell and not enough show. We were riffing the heck out of it and the snark was flying but we're calling it quits early on.  The fact that the pitch black Klingon only succeeded in his plan of unification thanks to the lily white Klingon bringing the light was unintentionally hilarious/horrifying, probably due to my lily-white guilt.
 
2017-10-02 09:08:18 AM  

Qaiwolf: KWess: I wasn't crazy about the first two episodes either.  I was disappointed by Michelle Yeoh, who was pretty wooden, I thought, and the the whole mutiny thing seemed seriously contrived.  Commander shiats-his-pants needs to be beamed into space.  And for heaven's sake, why do the enemies have to be so obviously black???

The pilot episode/s were almost constant exposition dump, so much tell and not enough show. We were riffing the heck out of it and the snark was flying but we're calling it quits early on.  The fact that the pitch black Klingon only succeeded in his plan of unification thanks to the lily white Klingon bringing the light was unintentionally hilarious/horrifying, probably due to my lily-white guilt.


Yea you're overthinking this.
 
2017-10-02 09:39:58 AM  

Ghastly: Oh and other stupid dialogue in the episode. When Cadet Adorkable says "Michael, but you're a woman. I've never heard of a woman named Michael before except... OMG you're her!"

Seriously, a woman named Michael is not going to be in anyway surprising by the 23rd century. A whole slew of unisex names started out as male only names, like Logan, Sasha, and even Sissy. It would not surprise me if even now there aren't a few women out there named Michael.


Apparently they don't have reruns of "The Waltons" in the 23rd Century.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-02 09:41:03 AM  
Why do they keep letting this person write scripts? Batman and Robin ring a bell?
 
2017-10-02 09:49:25 AM  
Episode 3 was good. It felt like Star Trek... but not.

The blatantly racist "maybe Vulcans should stick to not doing kung-fu" was a bit jarring, along with a half dozen other instances of "I thought we'd be past this in a perfect future." But, even in TOS there were instances of Starfleet personnel not living up to the ideal. We're just not used to them being the heroes.

This is war, times are desperate. Lorca is the captain fleet sends out as its wetworks guy. And they put him in charge of a science ship doing super secret research that might change the balance of power in the quadrant. The galaxy, for that matter. And he's anxious to rack up a W and get back to that perfect future we're supposed to have. What's worse, his anxiety seems to be driven by some past scarring that we've not seen yet.

Kirk (and/or Pike) is the guy that Starfleet needs. The Enterprise has always represented the very best of Starfleet. Kirk and co. are the guys you send in to an unwinnable situation and they come out squeaky clean the other side with a mark in the W column.

Lorca is not. He's shrewd, calculating, secretive. He's the guy they have right now. And who knows what kind of mischief he'll get into in order to get that W.

/should have been episode 1
//by the end of the season, we'll probably find out something about this mode of travel that makes it unworkable
 
2017-10-02 10:31:42 AM  

Smoking GNU: Prime focus: Providing subscriptions for that CBS streaming service.

Question, is the service available outside the us, or not, like Hulu?


It's not.  Outside of the US ST:D is a Netflix original series, and thus the episodes are uploaded to Netflix every week.

Yes, those of us who live in foreign countries are getting a much better deal.  No commercials, no extra prices for an extra streaming service, and it's not a hassle to keep up with the series.
 
2017-10-02 10:42:06 AM  

Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Smoking GNU: Prime focus: Providing subscriptions for that CBS streaming service.

Question, is the service available outside the us, or not, like Hulu?

It's not.  Outside of the US ST:D is a Netflix original series, and thus the episodes are uploaded to Netflix every week.

Yes, those of us who live in foreign countries are getting a much better deal.  No commercials, no extra prices for an extra streaming service, and it's not a hassle to keep up with the series.


Oh. Well ok then.
 
2017-10-02 10:48:28 AM  
Guess i'll have to check it out when i get back home.
 
2017-10-02 11:16:42 AM  
I was never a big star trek fan but this series looks promising, I admit I was always turned off by the utopianism of the original but I rather this not go stupid-grimdark. We'll wait and see.

As an aside, I'm rather enjoying the Orville...
 
2017-10-02 11:18:16 AM  
It needs a few months to find itself, but what Trek series doesn't?

Discovery is bought and paid for by the network and guaranteed a second season. That said, it's a war drama set in the Trek 'verse, not "Star Trek" in the spirit of the original or event TNG. It's even further afield from the Roddenberrian ideals than DS9's In The Pale Moonlight was (and seasons 6+7 in general).

For the optimistic scifi utopia in the spirit of the original we have The Orville, a much more accessible (on Fox!), "lighter" show without 50 years of canon baggage. And it has a much larger percentage of NG-era Trek talent involved than DSC.
 
2017-10-02 11:31:19 AM  
I'm watching The Orville.  CBS can suck an Owan egg.
 
2017-10-02 11:33:13 AM  

Mugato: Why do they keep letting this person write scripts? Batman and Robin ring a bell?


"Fringe" ring a bell?
 
2017-10-02 11:39:40 AM  
"Wow! Is that a book?"
 
2017-10-02 11:46:13 AM  
In canada, we got the first std episode for free. This seems like a terrible decision as ep1 leaves no desire to continue. If it was a two part pilot, why not provide both?
 
2017-10-02 11:52:05 AM  
I'm watching this show and I have no idea why it needed to be a prequel. I mean watch the show and pretend it takes place 100 years after voy and it STILL WORKS. Just change sarek to some random Vulcan who adopted her.

But by making it have tech that is so advanced beyond anything we have seen in Star Trek, it's even more advanced then the new movies, all they are doing is pissing on what I call the "tech timeline".

Make it not a prequel and there is no problem. Change a few story elements. 100 years in the future, the Klingon empire is completely estranged from the Federation and no one has seen them for over 100 years, their culture has changed, Federation technology has changed, it's a darker universe out there because things have not gone as well for the last hundred years as they would've liked. And all of a sudden this series makes sense.

That is what's bugging me the most, because last nights episode was good, I mean it was GOOD. But every time I saw them use some tech that completely pisses on the timeline it broke it for me.

Maybe I'm too anal when it comes to Star Trek canon. Maybe I'm completely fed up with prequels not even trying to stick to continuity.

/just my 2 cents
//site to site transporters via voice command was when it really sent me over the edge.
 
2017-10-02 12:03:34 PM  
Lost interest in the first episode. Highly doubt they will get me back, especially at the cost.
 
2017-10-02 12:04:52 PM  
As much as I like Star Trek, and I really do...  We don't need another one.

And even if we did, we don't need one that can only be viewed on a pay-subscription streaming service.

dpoisn.com
 
2017-10-02 12:21:54 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Single-handedly starting the largest war in the history of both of the federation species' entire combined histories solely with the power of your personal bloodlust doesn't make you crazy popular in a civilization whose entire current goal is to overcome its natural warlike tendencies.


She did NOT singlehandedly start the war. she was the only one whose actions of potentially preventing it. Though Starfleet is probably scapegoating her to the public as the cause. The klingons ship was there for the express purpose of starting a F-ing war with the federation, so he could unify the empire under his rule.

His speech the other klingons show exactly what he is doing. He orchestrated the whole situation. The klingons attacked first, the torchbearer attacked Michael and she killed him by accident, in the ship to ship combat the klingons fired first while the federation was trying to communicate. When the admiral showed up they pretended to try and talk then rammed through his ship using a cloak to hide their ship until it had already collided with the admiral's ship.

The war makes it look like Starfleet is filled with idealistic idiots who had a set of values and no real world skills when the run into any situation where those values need to be adjusted. in TNG we see Picard and the enterprise crew taking lengths to not insult or upset other cultures, we see 0 effort in this part from the federation towards the klingons, they are dealing with a race that they need to adjust their playbook for because of a radically different set of values, and disregarded the experiences of the other federation races that would have given them a chance of avoiding a larger conflict, and played right into the hands of the Klingon zealot who wanted to start a war. Michael tried to adjust the playbook to accommodate the race, and only mutinied after the captain had rejected the ONLY option that was not guaranteed to end with their ship destroyed.

Jim_Callahan: The central conflict they seem to be setting up is that Michael and the captain of the ship are sort of the last of the old, ultraviolent breed of human/Vulcan trying to find a place in a civilization where they increasingly don't have a place.


Except she is not ultra-violent. what we have seen so far is that she accepts that violence is sometimes necessary, but starfleet is echo chambering themselves out of remembering that truth.

Non-aggression is fine, trying for peace is fine, but you need to be able to recognize when peace is not possible, and be wiling and capable of defending yourself when conflict is needed. She is, to many starfleet captains are not.
 
2017-10-02 12:28:48 PM  

Invincible: In canada, we got the first std episode for free. This seems like a terrible decision as ep1 leaves no desire to continue. If it was a two part pilot, why not provide both?


The second part of the pilot, and all subsequent episodes, are available on the Space channel. Not exactly free, but not hard to get.
 
2017-10-02 12:41:22 PM  

AquaTatanka: I'm watching The Orville.  CBS Originality can suck an Owan egg because something different is scary.


FIFY
 
2017-10-02 12:50:30 PM  

sjmcc13: Jim_Callahan: Single-handedly starting the largest war in the history of both of the federation species' entire combined histories solely with the power of your personal bloodlust doesn't make you crazy popular in a civilization whose entire current goal is to overcome its natural warlike tendencies.

She did NOT singlehandedly start the war. she was the only one whose actions of potentially preventing it. Though Starfleet is probably scapegoating her to the public as the cause. The klingons ship was there for the express purpose of starting a F-ing war with the federation, so he could unify the empire under his rule.

His speech the other klingons show exactly what he is doing. He orchestrated the whole situation. The klingons attacked first, the torchbearer attacked Michael and she killed him by accident, in the ship to ship combat the klingons fired first while the federation was trying to communicate. When the admiral showed up they pretended to try and talk then rammed through his ship using a cloak to hide their ship until it had already collided with the admiral's ship.

The war makes it look like Starfleet is filled with idealistic idiots who had a set of values and no real world skills when the run into any situation where those values need to be adjusted. in TNG we see Picard and the enterprise crew taking lengths to not insult or upset other cultures, we see 0 effort in this part from the federation towards the klingons, they are dealing with a race that they need to adjust their playbook for because of a radically different set of values, and disregarded the experiences of the other federation races that would have given them a chance of avoiding a larger conflict, and played right into the hands of the Klingon zealot who wanted to start a war. Michael tried to adjust the playbook to accommodate the race, and only mutinied after the captain had rejected the ONLY option that was not guaranteed to end with their ship destroyed.

Jim_Callahan: The central c ...


Your debate here is precisely why I am enjoying this Trek. It is allowing for what I see as multiple valid ethical interpretations to arise from the characters' actions.

THAT is good Sci-Fi.

And for the people saying that this is too dark? This is a Trek series which was ALWAYS going to be about a farking war. You were expecting butterflies and unicorns?
 
2017-10-02 12:51:04 PM  

imashark: by the end of the season, we'll probably find out something about this mode of travel that makes it unworkable


We've actually seen similar tech in TREK before - the Iconian gateways from TNG & DS9.
 
2017-10-02 12:53:17 PM  

peterthx: imashark: by the end of the season, we'll probably find out something about this mode of travel that makes it unworkable

We've actually seen similar tech in TREK before - the Iconian gateways from TNG & DS9.

They'll probably file it under "too dangerous to use" and it will be forgotten.
/Hit "add comment" too soon.
 
2017-10-02 01:18:53 PM  

skyotter: Ghastly: Easter Egg: Keep your eyes out for the Gorn.

Caught it.  Loved it.

I really liked the third episode, and it definitely should have been the start of the season.  The first two episodes were disposable backstory, and could have been split up and used as flashbacks.


I am honestly more interested in the responses to the show than the show, but for the life of me, WHY did they do that is what I wonder.
 
2017-10-02 01:20:12 PM  

peterthx: peterthx: imashark: by the end of the season, we'll probably find out something about this mode of travel that makes it unworkable

We've actually seen similar tech in TREK before - the Iconian gateways from TNG & DS9.
They'll probably file it under "too dangerous to use" and it will be forgotten.
/Hit "add comment" too soon.


Something has to happen to prevent its use, right? The federation doesn't have tech like this in later canon and retconning it in would piss pretty much everybody off...
 
2017-10-02 01:31:14 PM  

puffy999: skyotter: Ghastly: Easter Egg: Keep your eyes out for the Gorn.

Caught it.  Loved it.

I really liked the third episode, and it definitely should have been the start of the season.  The first two episodes were disposable backstory, and could have been split up and used as flashbacks.

I am honestly more interested in the responses to the show than the show, but for the life of me, WHY did they do that is what I wonder.


I agree with you. But they have two seasons guaranteed already, and most of their viewers will not be watching "live" on network TV, so they can take their time getting things underway.
 
2017-10-02 01:43:10 PM  

peterthx: AquaTatanka: Originality can suck an Owan egg because something different is scary.

FIFY


The CBS Employee shows us what they said when creating STD, a show that didn't have any reason to be Star Trek other than "hey, the suckers will buy if we paint this  IP we own over this generic space script!".
 
2017-10-02 01:50:40 PM  

Ghastly: Cadet Adorkable: I'm gonna be the Wesley Crusher of this show but I'm so cute you won't mind.


You mean Cadet Anne from planet Greengable III - My very first bunkmate! Oh we shall be ever so happy having tea parties and doing each other's hair, isn't the arboretum ever so nice with all the blooming cherry trees and have you met the dreamy lieutenant on deck s--

SHUT UP!!
 
2017-10-02 01:53:47 PM  

Stavr0: Ghastly: Cadet Adorkable: I'm gonna be the Wesley Crusher of this show but I'm so cute you won't mind.

You mean Cadet Anne from planet Greengable III - My very first bunkmate! Oh we shall be ever so happy having tea parties and doing each other's hair, isn't the arboretum ever so nice with all the blooming cherry trees and have you met the dreamy lieutenant on deck s--

SHUT UP!!


Kinda makes you wonder if Starfleet lowered its recruiting standards during the war.
 
2017-10-02 02:03:26 PM  

WilderKWight: This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.


This is Star Trek without ethics or morals.  Kind of like the Equinox two-parter from VOY.
 
2017-10-02 02:03:43 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Yea you're overthinking this.


Could apply to most of this thread.

Some people, I want to ask them:  do you like anything?
 
2017-10-02 02:08:16 PM  

ElectricPeterTork: The CBS Employee shows us what they said when creating STD


Haven't you beaten that lie to death by now?

Oh yeah. Unoriginality is your specialty. You don't want to come up with anything new and original, just like what you watch.
 
2017-10-02 02:10:33 PM  

peterthx: ElectricPeterTork: The CBS Employee shows us what they said when creating STD

Haven't you beaten that lie to death by now?

Oh yeah. Unoriginality is your specialty. You don't want to come up with anything new and original, just like what you watch.


While you're only defending this turd (outside of your corporate obligations) because it says "Star Trek" in the name.

If it was "Space Voyage: Discovery", you wouldn't give a shiat or you'd be calling it out for the crap it is. But because it's under the unoriginal, old, and familiar title you claim to love, it automatically gets a pass.
 
2017-10-02 02:12:38 PM  

Leishu: Something has to happen to prevent its use, right? The federation doesn't have tech like this in later canon and retconning it in would piss pretty much everybody off...


Starfleet just has to have their version of the Indiana Jones Area 51 warehouse where tech too dangerous because it could be abused and weaponized is stored. Just like Picard having to destroy the Iconian gateway - entire armies transported in the blink of an eye to an enemy homeworld.
 
2017-10-02 02:19:03 PM  
I'm the first one to call out bad 'trek.

The first two episodes were very bad 'trek.

The third episode was surprisingly decent 'trek.  I'll keep watching for now (and for free).
 
2017-10-02 02:32:47 PM  
To say I had reservations after watching the pilot(s) would be an understatement, but I want to give the thing a chance, so I watched the latest episode. Now more than ever I am under the impression that this show was written as something else before they shoehorned in Star Trek stuff. None of it feels like Trek - it's just TV Show in Space using the same template you can find anywhere. "Oh look, there's dramatic tension now because that person's motives are cloudy. And this one is conflicted about something. That's their character. I wonder when people are going to come around to sympathize with this person we're meant to identify with. I hope it happens soon, the suspense is killing me!"

/Black Alert made me laugh out loud. Like Geordi just entered the room or something
 
2017-10-02 02:33:53 PM  

The_Knarf: I'm watching this show and I have no idea why it needed to be a prequel. I mean watch the show and pretend it takes place 100 years after voy and it STILL WORKS. Just change sarek to some random Vulcan who adopted her.


That's been my exact reaction. It's almost as if they plotted out the entire show and then changed a few details to try to make it a prequel even though that makes nothing make any sense. I try to not get hung up on continuity, but I have my limits and this show is pushing them.
 
2017-10-02 02:37:47 PM  

ElectricPeterTork: While you're only defending this turd (outside of your corporate obligations) because it says "Star Trek" in the name.


If anyone is acting like a network suit, it's YOU and your ilk.
STAR TREK VOYAGER producers: "We want The Year of Hell" to be a year long arc. TV Suits: no
STAR TREK ENTERPRISE producers: "We want the first season to have the ship being built in orbit and the leadup to launch". TV suits: no. We want it like the other shows."
They didn't want anything different. Neither do you.

If it was "Space Voyage: Discovery", you wouldn't give a shiat

LOL. Pot-kettle.
 
2017-10-02 02:41:27 PM  

swahnhennessy: To say I had reservations after watching the pilot(s) would be an understatement, but I want to give the thing a chance, so I watched the latest episode. Now more than ever I am under the impression that this show was written as something else before they shoehorned in Star Trek stuff. None of it feels like Trek - it's just TV Show in Space using the same template you can find anywhere. "Oh look, there's dramatic tension now because that person's motives are cloudy. And this one is conflicted about something. That's their character. I wonder when people are going to come around to sympathize with this person we're meant to identify with. I hope it happens soon, the suspense is killing me!"

/Black Alert made me laugh out loud. Like Geordi just entered the room or something


BLACK ALERT

screenprism.comView Full Size
 
2017-10-02 02:43:08 PM  

ElectricPeterTork: swahnhennessy: To say I had reservations after watching the pilot(s) would be an understatement, but I want to give the thing a chance, so I watched the latest episode. Now more than ever I am under the impression that this show was written as something else before they shoehorned in Star Trek stuff. None of it feels like Trek - it's just TV Show in Space using the same template you can find anywhere. "Oh look, there's dramatic tension now because that person's motives are cloudy. And this one is conflicted about something. That's their character. I wonder when people are going to come around to sympathize with this person we're meant to identify with. I hope it happens soon, the suspense is killing me!"

/Black Alert made me laugh out loud. Like Geordi just entered the room or something

BLACK ALERT

[screenprism.com image 850x637]


Indeed. Worst Trek episode ever, and that include's Spock's Brain.
 
2017-10-02 02:47:09 PM  

bingethinker: Invincible: In canada, we got the first std episode for free. This seems like a terrible decision as ep1 leaves no desire to continue. If it was a two part pilot, why not provide both?

The second part of the pilot, and all subsequent episodes, are available on the Space channel. Not exactly free, but not hard to get.


my point was that they're asking me to change my behavior while disincentivising me to do so. I didn't come off ep1 eager for more. Hearing the spoilers in TFA actually makes me interested again.
 
2017-10-02 02:47:57 PM  

swahnhennessy: ElectricPeterTork: swahnhennessy: To say I had reservations after watching the pilot(s) would be an understatement, but I want to give the thing a chance, so I watched the latest episode. Now more than ever I am under the impression that this show was written as something else before they shoehorned in Star Trek stuff. None of it feels like Trek - it's just TV Show in Space using the same template you can find anywhere. "Oh look, there's dramatic tension now because that person's motives are cloudy. And this one is conflicted about something. That's their character. I wonder when people are going to come around to sympathize with this person we're meant to identify with. I hope it happens soon, the suspense is killing me!"

/Black Alert made me laugh out loud. Like Geordi just entered the room or something

BLACK ALERT

[screenprism.com image 850x637]

Indeed. Worst Trek episode ever, and that include's Spock's Brain.


They made a good point on the mission log podcast... it's a great radio show. But add in the visuals, and it becomes... unfortunate.
 
2017-10-02 03:14:32 PM  

Voodoo_Stu: "Wow! Is that a book?"


I read about them in history class at the Academy.
 
2017-10-02 03:34:04 PM  
For more David Lee McInnis's body of work, because we need to get a full look at his talents (Park Joon Hyung is there to help, just in case):

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-02 03:34:26 PM  
... and wrong thread. Woops.
 
2017-10-02 03:37:43 PM  

peterthx: Leishu: Something has to happen to prevent its use, right? The federation doesn't have tech like this in later canon and retconning it in would piss pretty much everybody off...

Starfleet just has to have their version of the Indiana Jones Area 51 warehouse where tech too dangerous because it could be abused and weaponized is stored. Just like Picard having to destroy the Iconian gateway - entire armies transported in the blink of an eye to an enemy homeworld.


We have top Vulcans working on it.
 
2017-10-02 04:25:04 PM  

ElectricPeterTork: swahnhennessy: ElectricPeterTork: swahnhennessy: To say I had reservations after watching the pilot(s) would be an understatement, but I want to give the thing a chance, so I watched the latest episode. Now more than ever I am under the impression that this show was written as something else before they shoehorned in Star Trek stuff. None of it feels like Trek - it's just TV Show in Space using the same template you can find anywhere. "Oh look, there's dramatic tension now because that person's motives are cloudy. And this one is conflicted about something. That's their character. I wonder when people are going to come around to sympathize with this person we're meant to identify with. I hope it happens soon, the suspense is killing me!"

/Black Alert made me laugh out loud. Like Geordi just entered the room or something

BLACK ALERT

[screenprism.com image 850x637]

Indeed. Worst Trek episode ever, and that include's Spock's Brain.

They made a good point on the mission log podcast... it's a great radio show. But add in the visuals, and it becomes... unfortunate.


If I'm remembering correctly, the people who wrote the episode did not have descriptions of the characters from the planet as black, it was a decision the casting people made.
 
2017-10-02 04:36:52 PM  

Dark Side Of The Spoon: ElectricPeterTork: swahnhennessy: ElectricPeterTork: swahnhennessy: To say I had reservations after watching the pilot(s) would be an understatement, but I want to give the thing a chance, so I watched the latest episode. Now more than ever I am under the impression that this show was written as something else before they shoehorned in Star Trek stuff. None of it feels like Trek - it's just TV Show in Space using the same template you can find anywhere. "Oh look, there's dramatic tension now because that person's motives are cloudy. And this one is conflicted about something. That's their character. I wonder when people are going to come around to sympathize with this person we're meant to identify with. I hope it happens soon, the suspense is killing me!"

/Black Alert made me laugh out loud. Like Geordi just entered the room or something

BLACK ALERT

[screenprism.com image 850x637]

Indeed. Worst Trek episode ever, and that include's Spock's Brain.

They made a good point on the mission log podcast... it's a great radio show. But add in the visuals, and it becomes... unfortunate.

If I'm remembering correctly, the people who wrote the episode did not have descriptions of the characters from the planet as black, it was a decision the casting people made.


Yeah, the director was reportedly a bit... really farking racist. He didn't even last the entire episode, IIRC.
 
2017-10-02 05:54:03 PM  
I mean seriously, Lost in Space? I Am Legend? Transformers:The Last Knight? Lost in Space?
 
2017-10-02 06:03:37 PM  
Honestly, the first two episodes only existed to set up the main character and how a Vulcan raised Human came to be in the situation that began in the third episode.

Frankly, episode three of Star Trek: Discovery was a better episode than ANY episode in the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

I have a feeling that this is going to boil down to the origin story of Section 31.
 
2017-10-02 06:38:52 PM  

Smoking GNU: Prime focus: Providing subscriptions for that CBS streaming service.

 ...


I was going to say, "Separating fools from their money", but those are the same thing.
 
2017-10-02 07:14:37 PM  
I just watched last night's episode again.  It's pretty solid.

Maybe I was too quick to say, "Shaka, when the walls fell..." but damn, that pilot was garbage.
 
2017-10-02 07:34:38 PM  

Stavr0: WilderKWight: This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.

This is Star Trek without ethics or morals.  Kind of like the Equinox two-parter from VOY.


Perhaps the Star Trek answer to Stargate: Universe.
 
2017-10-02 08:19:52 PM  

Aldritt: Stavr0: WilderKWight: This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.

This is Star Trek without ethics or morals. Kind of like the Equinox two-parter from VOY.

Perhaps the Star Trek answer to Stargate: Universe.


Section 31 already lacked ethics and morals.

This would either be the Section 31 origin story, or at least a very early look at it in action.

Discovery's Captain has already told our protagonist that he intends to do whatever is necessary to win the Klingon war, Federation norms be damned.

img.fark.netView Full Size
img.fark.netView Full Size

img.fark.netView Full Size
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-02 09:39:11 PM  
Finally got around to watching it. Not bad, certainly better than the first 2 episodes, but it just doesn't seem like Trek. The outfits say Mass Effect3, the plot of this episode says Event Horizon, and the tone of the series so far says "We're finally getting that Section 31 series everyone said they wanted."

It doesn't play well with established canon at all. The tech, the uniforms, the philosophies of the captain,  the number and types of aliens all scream alternate universe to me. I'll find a way to keep watching for now, but I'd probably feel more comfortable with the show being called "Random gritty space opera" than Trek, but oh well.
 
2017-10-02 09:46:03 PM  

Ghastly: It should have been Episode 1 with Episode 1 and 2 shown as a prequel at a later date.


Nah, I'm sticking to my guns. The proper way to throw this into the media fishbowl would have been as a TV movie of the first three episodes or maybe a three night limited miniseries. Although I wonder what it would have looked like if they recut the first three episodes with the first two episodes presented as flashbacks during her trial? That might have worked even better, but they all still need to be all at once.
 
2017-10-02 10:25:05 PM  

BullBearMS: Aldritt: Stavr0: WilderKWight: This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.

This is Star Trek without ethics or morals. Kind of like the Equinox two-parter from VOY.

Perhaps the Star Trek answer to Stargate: Universe.

Section 31 already lacked ethics and morals.

This would either be the Section 31 origin story, or at least a very early look at it in action.

Discovery's Captain has already told our protagonist that he intends to do whatever is necessary to win the Klingon war, Federation norms be damned.

[img.fark.net image 250x240][img.fark.net image 250x240]
[img.fark.net image 250x240][img.fark.net image 250x240]


The best farking episode of Trek ever. I wish there  was a similar one with Kirk, only he did all the killing..
 
2017-10-02 10:31:01 PM  

Ghastly: Easter Egg: Keep your eyes out for the Gorn.


K, second time through still missed it.. The skeleton at the end when the Captain goes to check out the Targ or what the hell ever that was they beamed of the other ship?
Either way if there is a Gorn at this point in the Federation, *we are in a different timeline* than TOS.  Ep. 1's Easter egg was a time travel riff from TOS, If the warp midichlorians can do time as well as space, we might get to visit 1930's America and alter the timeline with someone that looks like Joan Collins fifty years ago, in an episode coming soon.
 
2017-10-02 10:39:54 PM  

Invincible: In canada, we got the first std episode for free. This seems like a terrible decision as ep1 leaves no desire to continue. If it was a two part pilot, why not provide both?


In Canada, we get all the episodes, 2nd was right after the first, last week & 3rd was last night. Space, FTW. But cool story bro!
 
2017-10-02 10:51:11 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: The outfits say Mass Effect3,


Outfits are in the ballpark from Enterprise series uniforms, ignoring Pike pre-time in TOS timeline.
 
2017-10-02 11:07:39 PM  

sno man: Invincible: In canada, we got the first std episode for free. This seems like a terrible decision as ep1 leaves no desire to continue. If it was a two part pilot, why not provide both?

In Canada, we get all the episodes, 2nd was right after the first, last week & 3rd was last night. Space, FTW. But cool story bro!


when your mom pays your cable bill for you, it's not the same as being free. Ctv streaming ep1 was free. Space channel requires cable (including cable box rental) plus the"premium" package. About $120 a month or $30 an episode. Not free.
 
2017-10-02 11:27:26 PM  
Seriously, is there a studio insider who can explain how he still gets work?
 
2017-10-02 11:32:36 PM  

Invincible: sno man: Invincible: In canada, we got the first std episode for free. This seems like a terrible decision as ep1 leaves no desire to continue. If it was a two part pilot, why not provide both?

In Canada, we get all the episodes, 2nd was right after the first, last week & 3rd was last night. Space, FTW. But cool story bro!

when your mom pays your cable bill for you, it's not the same as being free. Ctv streaming ep1 was free. Space channel requires cable (including cable box rental) plus the"premium" package. About $120 a month or $30 an episode. Not free.


Meh, near basic cable here, I could pay half what I do and still get space, and it's still way less than a buck twenty.
 
2017-10-03 12:15:06 AM  

BullBearMS: Aldritt: Stavr0: WilderKWight: This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.

This is Star Trek without ethics or morals. Kind of like the Equinox two-parter from VOY.

Perhaps the Star Trek answer to Stargate: Universe.

Section 31 already lacked ethics and morals.

This would either be the Section 31 origin story, or at least a very early look at it in action.

Discovery's Captain has already told our protagonist that he intends to do whatever is necessary to win the Klingon war, Federation norms be damned.

[img.fark.net image 250x240][img.fark.net image 250x240]
[img.fark.net image 250x240][img.fark.net image 250x240]


That was in what, Season 6? Deep Space 9 earned that moment. You have years worth of investment in understanding just how deeply moral and ethical Sisko normally is for that moment to land. It's not an episode you can do in the first season of a show.
 
2017-10-03 12:30:44 AM  

sno man: Ghastly: Easter Egg: Keep your eyes out for the Gorn.

K, second time through still missed it.. The skeleton at the end when the Captain goes to check out the Targ or what the hell ever that was they beamed of the other ship?
Either way if there is a Gorn at this point in the Federation, *we are in a different timeline* than TOS.  Ep. 1's Easter egg was a time travel riff from TOS, If the warp midichlorians can do time as well as space, we might get to visit 1930's America and alter the timeline with someone that looks like Joan Collins fifty years ago, in an episode coming soon.


That's how the Mirror Universe starts in one of the books. McCoy saves her, Nazi's win. World descends into fascism.
 
2017-10-03 12:32:36 AM  

sno man: The skeleton at the end when the Captain goes to check out the Targ or what the hell ever that was they beamed of the other ship?


Yes, that was very clearly a Gorn skeleton.
 
2017-10-03 12:34:08 AM  
 
2017-10-03 12:34:38 AM  

Ghastly: sno man: Ghastly: Easter Egg: Keep your eyes out for the Gorn.

K, second time through still missed it.. The skeleton at the end when the Captain goes to check out the Targ or what the hell ever that was they beamed of the other ship?
Either way if there is a Gorn at this point in the Federation, *we are in a different timeline* than TOS.  Ep. 1's Easter egg was a time travel riff from TOS, If the warp midichlorians can do time as well as space, we might get to visit 1930's America and alter the timeline with someone that looks like Joan Collins fifty years ago, in an episode coming soon.

That's how the Mirror Universe starts in one of the books. McCoy saves her, Nazi's win. World descends into fascism.


Enterprise shot that to shiat, though.

Their mirror universe episodes had the history of the universe shots in the opening credits show us that the mirror universe was pretty much always evil.
 
2017-10-03 12:37:53 AM  
Also a better look at the skeleton.

indiewire.comView Full Size
 
2017-10-03 12:42:12 AM  

ElectricPeterTork: Ghastly: sno man: Ghastly: Easter Egg: Keep your eyes out for the Gorn.

K, second time through still missed it.. The skeleton at the end when the Captain goes to check out the Targ or what the hell ever that was they beamed of the other ship?
Either way if there is a Gorn at this point in the Federation, *we are in a different timeline* than TOS.  Ep. 1's Easter egg was a time travel riff from TOS, If the warp midichlorians can do time as well as space, we might get to visit 1930's America and alter the timeline with someone that looks like Joan Collins fifty years ago, in an episode coming soon.

That's how the Mirror Universe starts in one of the books. McCoy saves her, Nazi's win. World descends into fascism.

Enterprise shot that to shiat, though.

Their mirror universe episodes had the history of the universe shots in the opening credits show us that the mirror universe was pretty much always evil.


Not really, hardened by a life of fascism and paranoia following the 3rd World War (which Star Trek has always been vague about) could have made Zephram Cochrain the murderous xenophobe we say at the beginning of that episode.
 
2017-10-03 01:06:43 AM  

cptjeff: BullBearMS: Aldritt: Stavr0: WilderKWight: This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.

This is Star Trek without ethics or morals. Kind of like the Equinox two-parter from VOY.

Perhaps the Star Trek answer to Stargate: Universe.

Section 31 already lacked ethics and morals.

This would either be the Section 31 origin story, or at least a very early look at it in action.

Discovery's Captain has already told our protagonist that he intends to do whatever is necessary to win the Klingon war, Federation norms be damned.

[img.fark.net image 250x240][img.fark.net image 250x240]
[img.fark.net image 250x240][img.fark.net image 250x240]

That was in what, Season 6? Deep Space 9 earned that moment. You have years worth of investment in understanding just how deeply moral and ethical Sisko normally is for that moment to land. It's not an episode you can do in the first season of a show.


How is when it happened relevant?

When the Federation's very existence is at stake, there is plenty of existing cannon that says the high minded principles get set aside.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-03 01:13:28 AM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: the tone of the series so far says "We're finally getting that Section 31 series everyone said they wanted."


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-03 01:29:08 AM  

BullBearMS: cptjeff: BullBearMS: Aldritt: Stavr0: WilderKWight: This is Hate Trek. This is Dark Trek. This is Grim Trek.

This is Star Trek without ethics or morals. Kind of like the Equinox two-parter from VOY.

Perhaps the Star Trek answer to Stargate: Universe.

Section 31 already lacked ethics and morals.

This would either be the Section 31 origin story, or at least a very early look at it in action.

Discovery's Captain has already told our protagonist that he intends to do whatever is necessary to win the Klingon war, Federation norms be damned.

[img.fark.net image 250x240][img.fark.net image 250x240]
[img.fark.net image 250x240][img.fark.net image 250x240]

That was in what, Season 6? Deep Space 9 earned that moment. You have years worth of investment in understanding just how deeply moral and ethical Sisko normally is for that moment to land. It's not an episode you can do in the first season of a show.

How is when it happened relevant?

When the Federation's very existence is at stake, there is plenty of existing cannon that says the high minded principles get set aside.

[img.fark.net image 850x619]


I'm not talking about federation canon, I'm talking about dramatic impact. The fact that you, the viewer, had seen six seasons of Sisko being the most moral guy in the room to the point of ridiculous self righteousness at times means that when you do see him breaking the rules in such an egregious way, it has a far more significant impact. Star Trek has plenty of forgettable episodes where you see a random character do the same thing. If In The Pale Moonlight had been in season one, it'd have been Homefront/Paradise Lost. It's the same reason that the death of some random redshirt was never able to create the dramatic moment that was created with the death of Spock. In order to make a dramatic moment for a character meaningful, you first have to make the viewer care about the character. That takes time. Or a really good hook- the Balance of Terror bit where the episode opens with Kirk conducting a marriage and the episode closes with the bride mourning her random redshirt husband pulls it off, but if you don't get the audience invested in the character first, it's not a dramatic moment, it's just exposition. And if you're just doing exposition, you might as well just go with Tyrion monologuing in a whorehouse while the prostitutes practice in the background.
 
2017-10-03 01:56:37 AM  

cptjeff: The fact that you, the viewer, had seen six seasons of Sisko being the most moral guy in the room to the point of ridiculous self righteousness at times means that when you do see him breaking the rules in such an egregious way, it has a far more significant impact.


I'm not sure what show you were watching.

img.fark.netView Full Size


This time we seem to be getting a storyline focusing on Section 31 acting during a threat to the Federation's existence.

We've got a Vulcan raised human as our protagonist who does believe in Starfleet values and wants to do the right thing, but also is willing to do the pragmatic thing if she thinks it's the only way out of a situation.

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2017-10-03 02:34:44 AM  

BullBearMS: Dingleberry Dickwad: the tone of the series so far says "We're finally getting that Section 31 series everyone said they wanted."

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Like the poll that said people were willing to pay for STAR TREK to keep it on the air back in the 2000s?
 
2017-10-03 06:49:29 AM  
I still don't understand how burnham could be blamed for starting the war when she accidentally killed the klingon (and she knows it was an accident) and tried to shoot first but couldn't then the klingons opened up on them.

aside of 'the plot needs this' there's nothing there that says she started the war.
 
2017-10-03 07:37:31 AM  

You Are All Sheep: aside of 'the plot needs this' there's nothing there


You can say that about every story point in the Pilot eps.
 
2017-10-03 09:30:50 AM  

You Are All Sheep: I still don't understand how burnham could be blamed for starting the war when she accidentally killed the klingon (and she knows it was an accident) and tried to shoot first but couldn't then the klingons opened up on them.

aside of 'the plot needs this' there's nothing there that says she started the war.



I think she's believed to have started the war because she killed "T'Kuvma right after he killed Capt. Georgiou. Their mission was to take him alive so they could bargain with the Klingon's for peace. Both Burnham and Georgiou agreed on that part. But, when T'Kuvma killed the Captain you saw Burnham visibly and intentionally change where she aimed her phaser so that it would kill him. And of course, much like they speculated, he was used as a martyr for the Klingons to rally around in their hatred for Star Fleet.
 
2017-10-03 10:04:05 AM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: You Are All Sheep: I still don't understand how burnham could be blamed for starting the war when she accidentally killed the klingon (and she knows it was an accident) and tried to shoot first but couldn't then the klingons opened up on them.

aside of 'the plot needs this' there's nothing there that says she started the war.


I think she's believed to have started the war because she killed "T'Kuvma right after he killed Capt. Georgiou. Their mission was to take him alive so they could bargain with the Klingon's for peace. Both Burnham and Georgiou agreed on that part. But, when T'Kuvma killed the Captain you saw Burnham visibly and intentionally change where she aimed her phaser so that it would kill him. And of course, much like they speculated, he was used as a martyr for the Klingons to rally around in their hatred for Star Fleet.


You also see the phaser's light go from blue (stun) to red (kill). She changed the setting, intending to kill him. That, and her mutiny during a critical moment, are what started the war.
 
2017-10-03 10:39:40 AM  

sno man: Invincible: sno man: Invincible: In canada, we got the first std episode for free. This seems like a terrible decision as ep1 leaves no desire to continue. If it was a two part pilot, why not provide both?

In Canada, we get all the episodes, 2nd was right after the first, last week & 3rd was last night. Space, FTW. But cool story bro!

when your mom pays your cable bill for you, it's not the same as being free. Ctv streaming ep1 was free. Space channel requires cable (including cable box rental) plus the"premium" package. About $120 a month or $30 an episode. Not free.

Meh, near basic cable here, I could pay half what I do and still get space, and it's still way less than a buck twenty.


I live in Iqaluit and space is not $120 / month on OUR cable (for price reference, a 12 pack of cans of Pepsi is $22 at the stores here). would be round $83+tax a month if you rent a receiver here, or you can buy the receiver for about 2 years worth or rentals fees, and save $9 a month afterwards.

space is on the 2nd tier of bell's current satellite  packages, which is around $50-55 a month IIRC.

If it costs you $120 a month you have a horrible provider.
 
2017-10-03 11:01:45 AM  
So my concern with the series, aside of me already paying for netflix thus having paid for this series then being told to buy something else to watch it, is that the reason cbs is going for the cash grab is possibly that they think there won't be a season 2, so get as much $ as you possibly can.

But this does look like a netflix produced series.  the effects are movie quality and I appreciate that.
 
2017-10-03 12:30:57 PM  

WilderKWight: Dingleberry Dickwad: You Are All Sheep: I still don't understand how burnham could be blamed for starting the war when she accidentally killed the klingon (and she knows it was an accident) and tried to shoot first but couldn't then the klingons opened up on them.

aside of 'the plot needs this' there's nothing there that says she started the war.


I think she's believed to have started the war because she killed "T'Kuvma right after he killed Capt. Georgiou. Their mission was to take him alive so they could bargain with the Klingon's for peace. Both Burnham and Georgiou agreed on that part. But, when T'Kuvma killed the Captain you saw Burnham visibly and intentionally change where she aimed her phaser so that it would kill him. And of course, much like they speculated, he was used as a martyr for the Klingons to rally around in their hatred for Star Fleet.

You also see the phaser's light go from blue (stun) to red (kill). She changed the setting, intending to kill him. That, and her mutiny during a critical moment, are what started the war.


Because otherwise the Klingons would never be willing to participate in glorious battle?
 
2017-10-03 12:44:35 PM  

BullBearMS: WilderKWight: Dingleberry Dickwad: You Are All Sheep: I still don't understand how burnham could be blamed for starting the war when she accidentally killed the klingon (and she knows it was an accident) and tried to shoot first but couldn't then the klingons opened up on them.

aside of 'the plot needs this' there's nothing there that says she started the war.


I think she's believed to have started the war because she killed "T'Kuvma right after he killed Capt. Georgiou. Their mission was to take him alive so they could bargain with the Klingon's for peace. Both Burnham and Georgiou agreed on that part. But, when T'Kuvma killed the Captain you saw Burnham visibly and intentionally change where she aimed her phaser so that it would kill him. And of course, much like they speculated, he was used as a martyr for the Klingons to rally around in their hatred for Star Fleet.

You also see the phaser's light go from blue (stun) to red (kill). She changed the setting, intending to kill him. That, and her mutiny during a critical moment, are what started the war.

Because otherwise the Klingons would never be willing to participate in glorious battle?


well not with all that swelling...man they looked like they needed some benadryl.
 
2017-10-03 01:47:30 PM  

You Are All Sheep: I still don't understand how burnham could be blamed for starting the war when she accidentally killed the klingon (and she knows it was an accident) and tried to shoot first but couldn't then the klingons opened up on them.

aside of 'the plot needs this' there's nothing there that says she started the war.


Honestly, I think it is that in everybody else's head she is the scapegoat because she shot the torchbearer.

The Klingons just wanted the war, and got it.

In her head, she is punishing herself because her attempt to stop the war (the mutiny and subsequent capture attempt) failed and killed the person she most looked up to, and a lot of other people.
 
2017-10-03 03:18:07 PM  

You Are All Sheep: BullBearMS: WilderKWight: Dingleberry Dickwad: You Are All Sheep: I still don't understand how burnham could be blamed for starting the war when she accidentally killed the klingon (and she knows it was an accident) and tried to shoot first but couldn't then the klingons opened up on them.

aside of 'the plot needs this' there's nothing there that says she started the war.


I think she's believed to have started the war because she killed "T'Kuvma right after he killed Capt. Georgiou. Their mission was to take him alive so they could bargain with the Klingon's for peace. Both Burnham and Georgiou agreed on that part. But, when T'Kuvma killed the Captain you saw Burnham visibly and intentionally change where she aimed her phaser so that it would kill him. And of course, much like they speculated, he was used as a martyr for the Klingons to rally around in their hatred for Star Fleet.

You also see the phaser's light go from blue (stun) to red (kill). She changed the setting, intending to kill him. That, and her mutiny during a critical moment, are what started the war.

Because otherwise the Klingons would never be willing to participate in glorious battle?

well not with all that swelling...man they looked like they needed some benadryl.


If your Klingon swelling doesn't go down in four episodes... See your doctor!
 
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