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(Politico (Europe))   Sovereignty: Brexiteers keep using that word, but it does not mean what they think it means   ( politico.eu) divider line
    More: Interesting, EU, United Kingdom, EU product regulations, EU rules, EU market, single market, Europe, EU food  
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999 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Sep 2017 at 8:21 AM (36 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-14 06:35:25 AM  
Leaving the European Union was meant to be about "taking back control." That was the catchy slogan that united nostalgic patriots and xenophobic bigots, just-about-managing Britons and globe-trotting billionaires, losers of globalization and non-domiciled tabloid barons with media empires on which the sun never sets.

They forgot Canadian Fark posters.

Also the fact that MPs are gaining powers to alter laws without parliamentary scrutiny.
 
2017-09-14 06:46:18 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 08:26:11 AM  
Wow. That is some biased and misleading reporting.

Britain will have regained the power, in theory, to tear up EU regulations - but only if it chooses not to sell its goods and services into the EU market, which buys some 40 percent of its exports. In other words, it will have "taken back control" of the right to commit economic suicide.

Well the UK will have to meet EU regulations on all stuff it exports to the EU. Well duh. So does the US, Japan, China, everyone who exports to the EU. Just as everyone has to met US regulations on stuff they export to the US. Remember the stupid plastic bumpers they fitted to MGBs sold in the US in the seventies because of US regulations?
But what they don't have to do is apply those rules to stuff they sell in the own home market.
So after Brexit the UK will be in exactly the same position as every country exporting to the EU. The idea that it wouldn't be able to sell any goods to the EU is pure sensationalised Project Fear all over again.

When it comes to trade with third countries, Theresa May's ministers are now admitting what has been obvious from the outset. Britain's agreements with key partners such as Japan or South Korea will at best copy and paste their existing EU terms

Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.
 
2017-09-14 08:31:19 AM  
When it comes to trade with third countries, Theresa May's ministers are now admitting what has been obvious from the outset. Britain's agreements with key partners such as Japan or South Korea will at best copy and paste their existing EU terms - if the Asian nations consent to treating the 65-million-person U.K. market on an equal footing with the 450-million-strong EU.

Even discounting that, there's also the fact that the terms you get when you've got trained and experienced negotiators with time to play with are going to be different than the ones you get when your guys have no institutional knowledge and a deadline.
 
2017-09-14 08:33:09 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.


I don't know.  Brexit seems like a bit of an extreme step and a lot of work to maybe end up with exactly what you had before you went to all that trouble.
 
2017-09-14 08:33:12 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: But what they don't have to do is apply those rules to stuff they sell in the own home market.


Will it be worth the extra expense to businesses to create "UK only" versions of their products rather than continuing to sell products that meet the EU regulations and can be sold in both areas?

It seems likely that for many products the answer will be "No". The UK market won't be large enough to justify the additional expense.
 
2017-09-14 08:37:05 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.


Why did you leave this part out?

if the Asian nations consent to treating the 65-million-person U.K. market on an equal footing with the 450-million-strong EU.

Tell us why Japan or SK would do this? To be nice to the retarded kid?
 
2017-09-14 08:57:45 AM  
In the US, we have a lot of people who are very VERY concerned with sovereignty. They are almost exclusively white, inbred, and heavy on the dunning-kruger.

Hmm, I wonder if there's a possibility with Brexiteers being....

No, no. It's rude to speculate...
 
2017-09-14 09:13:42 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Carter Pewterschmidt: Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.

Why did you leave this part out?

if the Asian nations consent to treating the 65-million-person U.K. market on an equal footing with the 450-million-strong EU.

Tell us why Japan or SK would do this? To be nice to the retarded kid?


You do know that a couple of weeks ago Japan signed an agreement to do exactly that, apply their existing EU deal to the UK the moment the UK leaves the EU?

And again, months ago we were told the UK would never get a deal for years, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as good as the existing deal. Now TFA is grudgingly admitting the UK could get a deal "as good as" the EU deal but somehow claiming that's still a bad thing and ignoring that months ago they were adamant that the UK would never get anything close to that, and not for years.

So it's still Project Fear, they just move the goalposts again and again as their previous predictions are proved wrong. In a Fark thread a few weeks ago it was tagged "Asinine" to even suggest anyone agreeing to copy and paste the EU deal. Before the Fark thread was over Japan had already signed an agreement to do exactly that.
 
2017-09-14 09:16:03 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: But what they don't have to do is apply those rules to stuff they sell in the own home market.
So after Brexit the UK will be in exactly the same position as every country exporting to the EU. The idea that it wouldn't be able to sell any goods to the EU is pure sensationalised Project Fear all over again.


If nearly half (40%) goes to the EU, is it going to be cost-effective to produce domestic and export product versions? And isn't there a real chance that people will prefer the EU version of the product because things produced under more stringent rules are often seen as superior?

Another serious question: what does Britain produce that the continent wants because it either isn't produced on the continent, or only vastly inferior versions are produced on the continent? I am not trying to be insulting. I really am just looking for information. For example, as an American, I will spring for the odd jar of clotted cream a couple times of year. And Lyle's kicks Karo's butt. I also love several British cheeses, but, as small domestic cheese makers keep popping up, I am finding domestic cheeses that rival many of the imports I used to buy. What does the continent need or desire from Britain?
 
2017-09-14 09:16:11 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Wow. That is some biased and misleading reporting.

Britain will have regained the power, in theory, to tear up EU regulations - but only if it chooses not to sell its goods and services into the EU market, which buys some 40 percent of its exports. In other words, it will have "taken back control" of the right to commit economic suicide.

Well the UK will have to meet EU regulations on all stuff it exports to the EU. Well duh. So does the US, Japan, China, everyone who exports to the EU. Just as everyone has to met US regulations on stuff they export to the US. Remember the stupid plastic bumpers they fitted to MGBs sold in the US in the seventies because of US regulations?
But what they don't have to do is apply those rules to stuff they sell in the own home market.
So after Brexit the UK will be in exactly the same position as every country exporting to the EU. The idea that it wouldn't be able to sell any goods to the EU is pure sensationalised Project Fear all over again.

When it comes to trade with third countries, Theresa May's ministers are now admitting what has been obvious from the outset. Britain's agreements with key partners such as Japan or South Korea will at best copy and paste their existing EU terms

Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.


You are not going to last long on Fark if you don't learn the talking points. Here i'll help:

Brexit bad, very bad
No good will come from Brexit ever
Only bad
UK doomed - will burn down, fall over and then sink into the Atlantic ocean.
 
2017-09-14 09:16:12 AM  
This town "took back control" from it's neighbors. So 400 years of truly suffering economically left it quaint old fashioned and impoverished -- until the tourists.  However, poor people suffering is not much of a tourist draw during the "suffering."

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 09:17:16 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Wow. That is some biased and misleading reporting.

Britain will have regained the power, in theory, to tear up EU regulations - but only if it chooses not to sell its goods and services into the EU market, which buys some 40 percent of its exports. In other words, it will have "taken back control" of the right to commit economic suicide.

Well the UK will have to meet EU regulations on all stuff it exports to the EU. Well duh. So does the US, Japan, China, everyone who exports to the EU. Just as everyone has to met US regulations on stuff they export to the US. Remember the stupid plastic bumpers they fitted to MGBs sold in the US in the seventies because of US regulations?
But what they don't have to do is apply those rules to stuff they sell in the own home market.
So after Brexit the UK will be in exactly the same position as every country exporting to the EU. The idea that it wouldn't be able to sell any goods to the EU is pure sensationalised Project Fear all over again.

When it comes to trade with third countries, Theresa May's ministers are now admitting what has been obvious from the outset. Britain's agreements with key partners such as Japan or South Korea will at best copy and paste their existing EU terms

Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.


"Could get" a deal "as good as" what the EU currently has with 3rd party nations is the best case scenario.

Way to call that a "win".
 
2017-09-14 09:19:01 AM  

Epoch_Zero: In the US, we have a lot of people who are very VERY concerned with sovereignty. They are almost exclusively white, inbred, and heavy on the dunning-kruger.

Hmm, I wonder if there's a possibility with Brexiteers being....

No, no. It's rude to speculate...


"Lots of planets have a North"

And a South, apparently.
 
2017-09-14 09:22:02 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: HotWingConspiracy: Carter Pewterschmidt: Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.

Why did you leave this part out?

if the Asian nations consent to treating the 65-million-person U.K. market on an equal footing with the 450-million-strong EU.

Tell us why Japan or SK would do this? To be nice to the retarded kid?

You do know that a couple of weeks ago Japan signed an agreement to do exactly that, apply their existing EU deal to the UK the moment the UK leaves the EU?

And again, months ago we were told the UK would never get a deal for years, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as good as the existing deal. Now TFA is grudgingly admitting the UK could get a deal "as good as" the EU deal but somehow claiming that's still a bad thing and ignoring that months ago they were adamant that the UK would never get anything close to that, and not for years.

So it's still Project Fear, they just move the goalposts again and again as their previous predictions are proved wrong. In a Fark thread a few weeks ago it was tagged "Asinine" to even suggest anyone agreeing to copy and paste the EU deal. Before the Fark thread was over Japan had already signed an agreement to do exactly that.


Sounds like Japan was smart enough to leave well enough alone.

Someone's gotta be the adult in the relationship.
 
2017-09-14 09:23:19 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: HotWingConspiracy: Carter Pewterschmidt: Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.

Why did you leave this part out?

if the Asian nations consent to treating the 65-million-person U.K. market on an equal footing with the 450-million-strong EU.

Tell us why Japan or SK would do this? To be nice to the retarded kid?

You do know that a couple of weeks ago Japan signed an agreement to do exactly that, apply their existing EU deal to the UK the moment the UK leaves the EU?

And again, months ago we were told the UK would never get a deal for years, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as good as the existing deal. Now TFA is grudgingly admitting the UK could get a deal "as good as" the EU deal but somehow claiming that's still a bad thing and ignoring that months ago they were adamant that the UK would never get anything close to that, and not for years.

So it's still Project Fear, they just move the goalposts again and again as their previous predictions are proved wrong. In a Fark thread a few weeks ago it was tagged "Asinine" to even suggest anyone agreeing to copy and paste the EU deal. Before the Fark thread was over Japan had already signed an agreement to do exactly that.


Yeah I read about that, I don't think anything has been signed. Japan gave itself a lot of ways out for some reason.
 
2017-09-14 09:26:41 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Carter Pewterschmidt: HotWingConspiracy: Carter Pewterschmidt: Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.

Why did you leave this part out?

if the Asian nations consent to treating the 65-million-person U.K. market on an equal footing with the 450-million-strong EU.

Tell us why Japan or SK would do this? To be nice to the retarded kid?

You do know that a couple of weeks ago Japan signed an agreement to do exactly that, apply their existing EU deal to the UK the moment the UK leaves the EU?

And again, months ago we were told the UK would never get a deal for years, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as good as the existing deal. Now TFA is grudgingly admitting the UK could get a deal "as good as" the EU deal but somehow claiming that's still a bad thing and ignoring that months ago they were adamant that the UK would never get anything close to that, and not for years.

So it's still Project Fear, they just move the goalposts again and again as their previous predictions are proved wrong. In a Fark thread a few weeks ago it was tagged "Asinine" to even suggest anyone agreeing to copy and paste the EU deal. Before the Fark thread was over Japan had already signed an agreement to do exactly that.

Yeah I read about that, I don't think anything has been signed. Japan gave itself a lot of ways out for some reason.


As I understand it they agreed to set a goal to agree.
 
2017-09-14 09:32:54 AM  

DeaH: For example, as an American, I will spring for the odd jar of clotted cream a couple times of year. And Lyle's kicks Karo's butt.


Pretty sure Lyle's is under American ownership.
 
2017-09-14 09:35:46 AM  
"Oi, guv'nah! You seen me face anywhere? Missus says there's been a jag-yoo-arr millin' about, but I'm certain it's this Pakistani kids that's done took it!"
 
2017-09-14 09:39:09 AM  

Archidude: HotWingConspiracy: Carter Pewterschmidt: HotWingConspiracy: Carter Pewterschmidt: Only a few months ago we were told we'd never get any deals for decades. Now they're admitting we could get a deal "as good as" the EUs trade deal with Japan? That's a fantastic goalpost moving to try to portray that as a bad thing.

Why did you leave this part out?

if the Asian nations consent to treating the 65-million-person U.K. market on an equal footing with the 450-million-strong EU.

Tell us why Japan or SK would do this? To be nice to the retarded kid?

You do know that a couple of weeks ago Japan signed an agreement to do exactly that, apply their existing EU deal to the UK the moment the UK leaves the EU?

And again, months ago we were told the UK would never get a deal for years, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as good as the existing deal. Now TFA is grudgingly admitting the UK could get a deal "as good as" the EU deal but somehow claiming that's still a bad thing and ignoring that months ago they were adamant that the UK would never get anything close to that, and not for years.

So it's still Project Fear, they just move the goalposts again and again as their previous predictions are proved wrong. In a Fark thread a few weeks ago it was tagged "Asinine" to even suggest anyone agreeing to copy and paste the EU deal. Before the Fark thread was over Japan had already signed an agreement to do exactly that.

Yeah I read about that, I don't think anything has been signed. Japan gave itself a lot of ways out for some reason.

As I understand it they agreed to set a goal to agree.


So they're engaged to be engaged.  Cute.
 
2017-09-14 09:43:59 AM  

DeaH: Carter Pewterschmidt: But what they don't have to do is apply those rules to stuff they sell in the own home market.
So after Brexit the UK will be in exactly the same position as every country exporting to the EU. The idea that it wouldn't be able to sell any goods to the EU is pure sensationalised Project Fear all over again.

If nearly half (40%) goes to the EU, is it going to be cost-effective to produce domestic and export product versions? And isn't there a real chance that people will prefer the EU version of the product because things produced under more stringent rules are often seen as superior?

Another serious question: what does Britain produce that the continent wants because it either isn't produced on the continent, or only vastly inferior versions are produced on the continent? I am not trying to be insulting. I really am just looking for information. For example, as an American, I will spring for the odd jar of clotted cream a couple times of year. And Lyle's kicks Karo's butt. I also love several British cheeses, but, as small domestic cheese makers keep popping up, I am finding domestic cheeses that rival many of the imports I used to buy. What does the continent need or desire from Britain?


BAe is a big defence manufacturer. The electric railgun the US tested a few weeks ago was built by BAe. All Airbus wings and IIRC undercarriage are built in the UK. Then you have Range Rovers and Jaguars, where new factories in th UK are being built right now, The Mini range, where they have announced the new electric Mini will be built in the UK. Honda build Civics in the UK that are exported back to Japan. Guinness stout is popular and British owned. The ARM chips in your smartphone use architecture designed in the UK. Rolls Royce jet engines for planes, ships, power stations etc are British, and even Donald Trumps 757 has RR engines, though I'd hardly call that a positive endorsement. I hope they got paid....

As for the different versions question, again most countries already do that. If Ford build a Mustang to export to the UK they build it to UK specs, yellow indicators instead of red etc.

The UK used to have very clear fire extinguishers for example that you could identify from fifty feet away. Red were water, black were CO2, cream were foam etc. The EU made them all red, with small colour signs, a big step back when you're trying to quickly find an extinguisher in a fire. The EU has just limited vacuum cleaner motors to 900 watts, where some people might want or need more? You could argue that is a good regulation, but they were also looking at limiting electric kettle wattage which is utter stupidity because it will just take longer to boil and end up using the exact same amount of power. Thankfully that doesn't seem to have been adopted so far.

In many areas UK regulations are ahead of EU laws. UK paid vacation requirements are more than the EU for example.
 
2017-09-14 10:37:27 AM  
1400 watts. If you need 2 horses to clean your carpet, there's something odd.
 
2017-09-14 10:39:18 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: In many areas UK regulations are ahead of EU laws. UK paid vacation requirements are more than the EU for example.



You realize that requirements can be a minimum OR a maximum, right?
 
2017-09-14 10:41:24 AM  

PartTimeBuddha: 1400 watts. If you need 2 horses to clean your carpet, there's something odd.


Maybe the two horses took a shiat on the carpet.
 
2017-09-14 10:41:43 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: DeaH: Carter Pewterschmidt: But what they don't have to do is apply those rules to stuff they sell in the own home market.
So after Brexit the UK will be in exactly the same position as every country exporting to the EU. The idea that it wouldn't be able to sell any goods to the EU is pure sensationalised Project Fear all over again.

If nearly half (40%) goes to the EU, is it going to be cost-effective to produce domestic and export product versions? And isn't there a real chance that people will prefer the EU version of the product because things produced under more stringent rules are often seen as superior?

Another serious question: what does Britain produce that the continent wants because it either isn't produced on the continent, or only vastly inferior versions are produced on the continent? I am not trying to be insulting. I really am just looking for information. For example, as an American, I will spring for the odd jar of clotted cream a couple times of year. And Lyle's kicks Karo's butt. I also love several British cheeses, but, as small domestic cheese makers keep popping up, I am finding domestic cheeses that rival many of the imports I used to buy. What does the continent need or desire from Britain?

BAe is a big defence manufacturer. The electric railgun the US tested a few weeks ago was built by BAe. All Airbus wings and IIRC undercarriage are built in the UK. Then you have Range Rovers and Jaguars, where new factories in th UK are being built right now, The Mini range, where they have announced the new electric Mini will be built in the UK. Honda build Civics in the UK that are exported back to Japan. Guinness stout is popular and British owned. The ARM chips in your smartphone use architecture designed in the UK. Rolls Royce jet engines for planes, ships, power stations etc are British, and even Donald Trumps 757 has RR engines, though I'd hardly call that a positive endorsement. I hope they got paid....

As for the different versions question, ...


1.Jaguar and Range Rovers are boutique cars, and do not have a huge market worldwide.

2.Airbus is a conglemerate of European comanies and some American ones.  Their corporate headquarters are between the Netherlands and France.  Pulling out of the UK would be frightfully easy for them, and they have been warning the UK for a year now about it if they cannot operate freely as they have in the past in the EU. https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-airbus-idUKKBN19200C​  and none of the areospace industry in your neck of the woods is too happy with Brexit, https://www.ft.com/content/77e6e934-c571-11e6-8f29-9445cac8966​f (including RR)

3. Electric Mini - boutique car that is still a concept

4. Honda can build their cars anywhere.

5. Guiness is owned by a huge liquor consortium in the UK, but Guiness itself is but a drop in the bucket on the world beer scene.

6.If you have a model that meets all the EU's regulations, but not the UKs, and you crunch the number's and the cost of maintaining a separate line for one country does not fall in line with sales in that country, then you do not sell there.  Means less choice.

No one gives two shiats about teapots and fire extinguishers in the grand scheme of things.
 
2017-09-14 11:29:02 AM  

Commander Lysdexic: You are not going to last long on Fark if you don't learn the talking points. Here i'll help:

Brexit bad, very bad
No good will come from Brexit ever
Only bad
UK doomed - will burn down, fall over and then sink into the Atlantic ocean.


You're kidding, right? It's Ronnie's new alt.
 
2017-09-14 11:34:03 AM  
I'm a bit surprised how well Brexit is going for Britain. Good on them. It could have been a lot worse.

Then again it could have been avoided altogether.
 
2017-09-14 11:44:12 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: DeaH: Carter Pewterschmidt: But what they don't have to do is apply those rules to stuff they sell in the own home market.
So after Brexit the UK will be in exactly the same position as every country exporting to the EU. The idea that it wouldn't be able to sell any goods to the EU is pure sensationalised Project Fear all over again.

If nearly half (40%) goes to the EU, is it going to be cost-effective to produce domestic and export product versions? And isn't there a real chance that people will prefer the EU version of the product because things produced under more stringent rules are often seen as superior?

Another serious question: what does Britain produce that the continent wants because it either isn't produced on the continent, or only vastly inferior versions are produced on the continent? I am not trying to be insulting. I really am just looking for information. For example, as an American, I will spring for the odd jar of clotted cream a couple times of year. And Lyle's kicks Karo's butt. I also love several British cheeses, but, as small domestic cheese makers keep popping up, I am finding domestic cheeses that rival many of the imports I used to buy. What does the continent need or desire from Britain?

BAe is a big defence manufacturer. The electric railgun the US tested a few weeks ago was built by BAe. All Airbus wings and IIRC undercarriage are built in the UK. Then you have Range Rovers and Jaguars, where new factories in th UK are being built right now, The Mini range, where they have announced the new electric Mini will be built in the UK. Honda build Civics in the UK that are exported back to Japan. Guinness stout is popular and British owned. The ARM chips in your smartphone use architecture designed in the UK. Rolls Royce jet engines for planes, ships, power stations etc are British, and even Donald Trumps 757 has RR engines, though I'd hardly call that a positive endorsement. I hope they got paid....

As for the different versions question, again most countries already do that. If Ford build a Mustang to export to the UK they build it to UK specs, yellow indicators instead of red etc.

The UK used to have very clear fire extinguishers for example that you could identify from fifty feet away. Red were water, black were CO2, cream were foam etc. The EU made them all red, with small colour signs, a big step back when you're trying to quickly find an extinguisher in a fire. The EU has just limited vacuum cleaner motors to 900 watts, where some people might want or need more? You could argue that is a good regulation, but they were also looking at limiting electric kettle wattage which is utter stupidity because it will just take longer to boil and end up using the exact same amount of power. Thankfully that doesn't seem to have been adopted so far.

In many areas UK regulations are ahead of EU laws. UK paid vacation requirements are more than the EU for example.


Yeah brexit wasn't about any of those things. It was about xenophobia. You can try and repackage that as omg the fire extinguishers or vacuums and bananas or what the fark ever but it was about xenophobia. It was a stupid short sighted vote. They gave up a unique position in the EU just to be subject to most of what the EU does anyway since it has more power and larger markets.
 
2017-09-14 11:52:18 AM  

theflatline: 4. Honda can build their cars anywhere.


Funny thing about that. This is per Ian Howells, Senior VP of Honda Motor Europe:

Howells also pointed out that being in the customs union avoids the complexity of applying 'rules of origin'. "All free trade agreements use these rules to determine which goods can benefit from reduced duties and other preferential treatment," he said. "These rules usually state that a product must contain 50-60% of originated content to benefit from reduced tariffs. The reality is that only 40% or so of the components used to build a modern car can be sourced in the UK and not all of that would be customs originating as local suppliers often source from abroad. "The upshot of that would be not being able to meet rules of origin thresholds and the UK automotive sector would therefore not stand to gain from trade deals with the EU or rest of the world without significant divergence from current practice.

Staying in the EU customs union avoids costly and complex compliance on goods traded with the EU. Further, by pooling UK and EU content, we would also continue to benefit on preferential treatments from EU free trade deals with third countries. Simple EEA membership [European Economic Area - a free trade zone that includes EFTA countries] or a free trade deal would not be sufficient. Compliance with rules of origin currently imposes heavy costs on Norway and other EEA members not in the EU customs union."


The trade deal the EU is striking with Japan, the one Ron is so keen to insist Japan has already agreed to replicate in a copy and paste form with the UK, requires cars to be built with at least 55% 'home grown' materials, significantly more than the Honda VP is saying they do.

By moving themselves out of the customs union, Britain would face tariffs on the cars they export even if they struck deals on identical terms as the EU has, because they would fail to comply with the 'rules of origin' requirements used in those trade agreements.
 
2017-09-14 12:30:15 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: DeaH: Carter Pewterschmidt: But what they don't have to do is apply those rules to stuff they sell in the own home market.
So after Brexit the UK will be in exactly the same position as every country exporting to the EU. The idea that it wouldn't be able to sell any goods to the EU is pure sensationalised Project Fear all over again.

If nearly half (40%) goes to the EU, is it going to be cost-effective to produce domestic and export product versions? And isn't there a real chance that people will prefer the EU version of the product because things produced under more stringent rules are often seen as superior?

Another serious question: what does Britain produce that the continent wants because it either isn't produced on the continent, or only vastly inferior versions are produced on the continent? I am not trying to be insulting. I really am just looking for information. For example, as an American, I will spring for the odd jar of clotted cream a couple times of year. And Lyle's kicks Karo's butt. I also love several British cheeses, but, as small domestic cheese makers keep popping up, I am finding domestic cheeses that rival many of the imports I used to buy. What does the continent need or desire from Britain?

BAe is a big defence manufacturer. The electric railgun the US tested a few weeks ago was built by BAe. All Airbus wings and IIRC undercarriage are built in the UK. Then you have Range Rovers and Jaguars, where new factories in th UK are being built right now, The Mini range, where they have announced the new electric Mini will be built in the UK. Honda build Civics in the UK that are exported back to Japan. Guinness stout is popular and British owned. The ARM chips in your smartphone use architecture designed in the UK. Rolls Royce jet engines for planes, ships, power stations etc are British, and even Donald Trumps 757 has RR engines, though I'd hardly call that a positive endorsement. I hope they got paid....

As for the different versions question, ...


Thank you. This was very informative. I had thought of Jaguar, but I was thinking the market share in the auto industry too small. On the other hand, if I could afford to maintain two cars just for myself, a Jag is what my other auto would be. I hadn't realized the UK defense industry was so large. Thank you, again, for the information.
 
2017-09-14 12:35:05 PM  
The one thing that struck me from the article that I think is spot on is that since Europe is 40% of the UK export market it will have to follow EU directives, but by leaving it no longer as any influence over those directives.  This is what I think so many miss, which is that the UK and EU are connected no matter what just by geography that the EU will remain the dominant (albeit not majority) part of the UK import/export efforts so they must follow EU regulations even though now they are "sovereign", so what the hell did Brexit really buy you?
 
2017-09-14 12:47:31 PM  

iron de havilland: DeaH: For example, as an American, I will spring for the odd jar of clotted cream a couple times of year. And Lyle's kicks Karo's butt.

Pretty sure Lyle's is under American ownership.


Nooooooooooooooooo! But it's so toffee-Britishy-good! It takes some of the glow off knowing it's owned by American Sugar Refining, but it still kick's Karo's but. I just wonder why I have to buy it imported. If it's made by an American company, can't they sell directly to the US market? Anyone who has eaten a pecan pie made with Lyle's would never buy Karo again.
 
2017-09-14 12:51:28 PM  
I initially read "Brexiteers" as "Breitbarters".

Was that wrong...should I not have done that?
 
2017-09-14 01:39:39 PM  
Well, it would be off for the Brexiteers to be cheering for greater sovereignty as a result of this. Sovereignty is not for them. Unless I misunderstand the very principles of the system, sovereignty belongs solely to the Queen, and not her subjects. So they would gain nothing from it if that were their intention.

And I'm not aware of anything that the Queen could do in practicality that was affected by the EU. Does she have the power to withhold anything that the system gives in her name?

If they want true sovereignty with actual power and authority behind it, they should restore power to the Queen.
 
2017-09-14 02:05:55 PM  

DeaH: iron de havilland: DeaH: For example, as an American, I will spring for the odd jar of clotted cream a couple times of year. And Lyle's kicks Karo's butt.

Pretty sure Lyle's is under American ownership.

Nooooooooooooooooo! But it's so toffee-Britishy-good! It takes some of the glow off knowing it's owned by American Sugar Refining, but it still kick's Karo's but. I just wonder why I have to buy it imported. If it's made by an American company, can't they sell directly to the US market? Anyone who has eaten a pecan pie made with Lyle's would never buy Karo again.


Incidentally, the only reason I knew that off the top of my head is from an article in Private Eye recently. Prue Leith, the new host of the popular British baking show Great British Bake Off has been speaking out about buying British, perhaps on behalf of the farmers' union.

GBBO is sponsored by Dr Oetker, a German baking company, and the American-owned Lyle's.
 
2017-09-14 03:20:44 PM  
The British imposed their will on the world and now they're worried about shared laws with the E.U. Good we were able to keep the British out of  'merica.
 
2017-09-14 03:37:04 PM  

SpaceyCat: [img.fark.net image 480x97]


Yep, and Ron was telling me I was wrong to point it out months ago.
 
2017-09-14 06:48:31 PM  

interstellar_tedium: The one thing that struck me from the article that I think is spot on is that since Europe is 40% of the UK export market it will have to follow EU directives, but by leaving it no longer as any influence over those directives.  This is what I think so many miss, which is that the UK and EU are connected no matter what just by geography that the EU will remain the dominant (albeit not majority) part of the UK import/export efforts so they must follow EU regulations even though now they are "sovereign", so what the hell did Brexit really buy you?


There is a very big difference. For goods the UK wants to export to the EU of course it will have to meet EU regulations, just as all American, Japanese, Chinese etc countries have to do.

But at the moment the UK has to meet all EU regulations within the UK. American companies don't. Japanese companies don't. Chinese companies don't. They can make their own laws and regulations. Only the actual specification of the goods they intend to export to other countries need to meet the laws of those countries. So If Ford build a car in Detroit to export to the EU they have to modify it to meet EU regulations. But they don't have to do anything to the ones they intend to sell at home. At the moment the UK does.

That is the big difference.

the_innkeeper: Carter Pewterschmidt: In many areas UK regulations are ahead of EU laws. UK paid vacation requirements are more than the EU for example.


You realize that requirements can be a minimum OR a maximum, right?


Well duh. That's what I was pointing out. The EU set a minimum. The UK law greatly exceeds that. It's worth pointing out because lots of Farkers seem to think the EU is wonderful and if not for them imposing their laws on the UK the UK would be some lawless hellhole with no human rights. I was pointing out that in certain key areas the UK already exceeds EU requirements. So any claim that leaving the EU will mean the rights of Britons will somehow be reduced has to be backed up by evidence.

DeaH: Thank you. This was very informative. I had thought of Jaguar, but I was thinking the market share in the auto industry too small. On the other hand, if I could afford to maintain two cars just for myself, a Jag is what my other auto would be. I hadn't realized the UK defense industry was so large. Thank you, again, for the information.


You're welcome.

inglixthemad: SpaceyCat: [img.fark.net image 480x97]

Yep, and Ron was telling me I was wrong to point it out months ago.


I don't remember that. I remember you lying about a video you posted and refusing to admit you lied. Maybe you got confused?

Horizon: Yeah brexit wasn't about any of those things. It was about xenophobia. You can try and repackage that as omg the fire extinguishers or vacuums and bananas or what the fark ever but it was about xenophobia. It was a stupid short sighted vote. They gave up a unique position in the EU just to be subject to most of what the EU does anyway since it has more power and larger markets.


I've actually posted several links to articles and reports saying that the Leave supporters do not have a problem with immigrants, just immigration. And there is a difference, as one Polish article I linked to explained. I'm actually in Canada at the moment and away from my PC so I can't link it again.
But it's like saying "Do you like your friends?" and you saying you did and then saying "Okay, so it's cool if ten of your friends crash on your sofa for the next year or so, right?"
The UK is a very open, multicultural, mixed society and doesn't have a problem with people of all races and cultures living here. But that's not the same as saying it's okay to want another few million people coming here, no matter what race they are.
So why is it okay for the US, Canada, Australia, Ne Zealand, India etc to all have strict immigration rules, limits and controls but for the UK to want the exact same controls is "xenophobic"?
 
2017-09-14 10:12:56 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Horizon: Yeah brexit wasn't about any of those things. It was about xenophobia. You can try and repackage that as omg the fire extinguishers or vacuums and bananas or what the fark ever but it was about xenophobia. It was a stupid short sighted vote. They gave up a unique position in the EU just to be subject to most of what the EU does anyway since it has more power and larger markets.

I've actually posted several links to articles and reports saying that the Leave supporters do not have a problem with immigrants, just immigration. And there is a difference, as one Polish article I linked to explained. I'm actually in Canada at the moment and away from my PC so I can't link it again.
But it's like saying "Do you like your friends?" and you saying you did and then saying "Okay, so it's cool if ten of your friends crash on your sofa for the next year or so, right?"
The UK is a very open, multicultural, mixed society and doesn't have a problem with people of all races and cultures living here. But that's not the same as saying it's okay to want another few million people coming here, no matter what race they are.
So why is it okay for the US, Canada, Australia, Ne Zealand, India etc to all have strict immigration rules, limits and controls but for the UK to want the exact same controls is "xenophobic"?


Wasn't it this one from 2015 by a guy who, having then witnessed the referendum campaign, wrote about the dangers of populist xenophobia, specifically calling out politicians and media for stoking xenophobic anger toward immigrants during the campaign?

"Much of the xenophobic anger that emerged during the Brexit debate was stoked by right-wing politicians and media making claims of international conspiracies against Britain; of the need to "save our sovereignty" and "take back our country" from the creeping reach of the EU; and, above all, of how immigrants (especially Muslims) represent a threat to Britain.

This guy?

Last week the PM said post-Brexit UK will 'project common values around the world'. Turns out those values are xenophobia & authoritarianism
- Daniel Tilles (@danieltilles1) January 28, 2017

Call me crazy, but I'm not sure he makes the most helpful source for arguing there was nothing xenophobic about Brexit.
 
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