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(NPR)   Tesla over-the-air software updates might introduce minor problems, such as the brakes not working   ( npr.org) divider line
    More: Scary, Automobile, kWh battery packs, battery boost, Tesla, Tesla owners, Battery electric vehicle, cars, temporary battery boost  
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995 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Sep 2017 at 11:25 PM (36 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-13 06:44:42 PM  
Even with regenerative braking there is some power loss. This new update just allows owners to get as much mileage as possible before crashing into the car ahead of them.
 
2017-09-13 06:54:14 PM  
You win some you lose some, what can ya do.
 
2017-09-13 08:08:17 PM  
Whoa

/WHOA
//I SAID WHOA GODDAMMIT
 
2017-09-13 08:13:07 PM  
Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.
 
2017-09-13 08:31:58 PM  

Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.


I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.
 
2017-09-13 08:46:10 PM  

itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.


Which did you get?

I got the EX-L V6, and it's been a dream so far.

Sadly it looks like they're dropping the V6 option next year and opting for a turbocharger instead in order to maintain fuel efficiency standards. Which is sad. A V6 is so much more pleasant to drive.

CSB:

Years ago (early 2000's) I had a Buick Skylark that had belonged to my grandmother (she agreed that she should stop driving after she had backed into her local post office. Twice. To her credit she didn't learn to drive until she was in her 70's after my grandfather died.). That thing seemed to eat the alternator every 18 months or so. I finally got rid of it after I (via the mechanic) discovered that the cylinder head was cracked.

As I was cleaning it out before getting rid of it I found a letter from Buick in the glove box, dated from 1995 IIRC, advising that they had discovered that the car might have a problem with the cylinder head cracking. Apparently my grandmother had tossed the letter in the car and had never gotten the free fix for it.

At least it explained why the damn thing had been hemorrhaging coolant since I'd gotten it.
 
2017-09-13 08:56:54 PM  

Sid_6.7: itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.

Which did you get?

I got the EX-L V6, and it's been a dream so far.

Sadly it looks like they're dropping the V6 option next year and opting for a turbocharger instead in order to maintain fuel efficiency standards. Which is sad. A V6 is so much more pleasant to drive.


V-6 coupe with manual transmission. I got it in large part because it seemed like the last of a dying breed.
 
2017-09-13 09:11:42 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Whoa

/WHOA
//I SAID WHOA GODDAMMIT


When I say WHOA I MEAN WHOA!
Youtube j2UlSQDOaqE
 
2017-09-13 09:34:31 PM  

Unobtanium: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Whoa

/WHOA
//I SAID WHOA GODDAMMIT

[YouTube video]


Yep, exactly what I was thinking of
 
2017-09-13 11:44:23 PM  
The vul
 
2017-09-13 11:46:19 PM  
The vulnerability of software with wireless access has presented a target for hackers. Imagine if someone placed a short on GM, then issued a brick order to every car.
 
2017-09-14 12:23:31 AM  
Who thought that over the air updates on a car was a good idea? I want names!
 
2017-09-14 12:56:52 AM  
This stopped being news since the first OTA Windows update.
 
2017-09-14 01:07:22 AM  
Gives BSoD a whole new meaning.
 
2017-09-14 01:14:16 AM  

wildcardjack: The vul


I blame the Vul, too. Ever since we began trade relations with those interstellar bastards everything has gone down hill.
 
2017-09-14 01:18:40 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: V-6 coupe with manual transmission. I got it in large part because it seemed like the last of a dying breed.


a real manual transmission, or a "manual" transmission?
I've noticed that the cars with gear up/down features tend to override me when they think i'm not paying attention, or don't remember what gear I was in when I shifted through drive and into neutral before back to manual.
i want to be able to stall my car out, dagnabbit.
Or drop to first gear when going down a hill.
 
2017-09-14 03:15:39 AM  
I really don't like this sort of thing (software developer of 30 years experience).

When people made early video games in cabinets in arcades, you didn't have bugs. Same with games that were sold for Amigas. Because they were impossible to patch, people tested the shiat out of stuff before it went out the door.

Roll forward to today, software is full of bugs on release, because you can always patch it. Which doesn't really matter with games, but when you're doing car software, it really does.
 
2017-09-14 06:50:03 AM  
(SIT Tone) "The lever you have pulled, brakes, is out of service. Please make a note of it"

I am disappoint I had to post it.

/I call the big one bitey
 
2017-09-14 07:07:13 AM  

ThatGuyOverThere: itcamefromschenectady: V-6 coupe with manual transmission. I got it in large part because it seemed like the last of a dying breed.

a real manual transmission, or a "manual" transmission?
I've noticed that the cars with gear up/down features tend to override me when they think i'm not paying attention, or don't remember what gear I was in when I shifted through drive and into neutral before back to manual.
i want to be able to stall my car out, dagnabbit.
Or drop to first gear when going down a hill.


The kind with a clutch. I don't find manually shifting an automatic to be useful, because you can't tell which gear you are in by the position of the lever, and it shifts by itself when it feels like it, so you always have to check a visual indicator to make sure where you are. It's not that I think a clutch is inherently a good thing, or that I wouldn't like to shift gears more quickly. But it's a major help to multitasking if you can shift without engaging your visual attention or higher mental functions. If I'm not going to have a clutch, I would rather have a CVT and not change gears at all.
 
2017-09-14 07:38:58 AM  
Why did you disconnect the brakes on my car?
That kind of thing is hard to ignore
 
2017-09-14 08:02:59 AM  

farkeruk: I really don't like this sort of thing (software developer of 30 years experience).

When people made early video games in cabinets in arcades, you didn't have bugs. Same with games that were sold for Amigas. Because they were impossible to patch, people tested the shiat out of stuff before it went out the door.

Roll forward to today, software is full of bugs on release, because you can always patch it. Which doesn't really matter with games, but when you're doing car software, it really does.


Especially with all the IDE's, languages, compilers, etc that do automatic memory management, garbage collection, lets you know your code sucks as you write it, and all that.  No reason for bad code these days unless you start with a shiatty foundation (Java, or why I'm starting with Python3) or have a bad understanding of low level hardware and are using a language like C (or why I'd learn Rust after Python).
 
2017-09-14 09:07:57 AM  
A toast to Tesla!

"Over the air and into the car
Look out guardrail, here we are!"
 
2017-09-14 09:43:11 AM  
Sweet.  If the future is anything like Star Trek, there'll ba a manual override.  Everything's going to be fine.
 
2017-09-14 09:49:41 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: The kind with a clutch. I don't find manually shifting an automatic to be useful, because you can't tell which gear you are in by the position of the lever, and it shifts by itself when it feels like it, so you always have to check a visual indicator to make sure where you are. It's not that I think a clutch is inherently a good thing, or that I wouldn't like to shift gears more quickly. But it's a major help to multitasking if you can shift without engaging your visual attention or higher mental functions. If I'm not going to have a clutch, I would rather have a CVT and not change gears at all.


Last time i bought a car 10 years ago (holy fark i need a new car). i bought with manual windows, locks, seats, no cruise, etc. but getting a manual transmisison would have cost about a thousand more because it was considered an optional "upgrade". i went automatic.
it's convenient, but not necessarily great.
 
2017-09-14 09:58:33 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.


Feeling the same way at the moment. Both of my Hondas are in the shop right now. The '08 Civic is understandable, it's 10 years old. But the '15 Fit has zero excuse for needing a new starter. Kind of wishing I had just bought a cheaper Hyundai or something.
 
2017-09-14 10:02:50 AM  

wildcardjack: The vulnerability of software with wireless access has presented a target for hackers. Imagine if someone placed a short on GM, then issued a brick order to every car.


I still remember the Uconnect hack for Chrysler/Jeep.  The fact that there's no security between the CANBUS network and whatever the hell is in the entertainment system (which apparently has Internet access) is frankly terrifying.

I'm all for making sure software is updated, but the fact that Tesla has to have constant, streaming updates tells me that they're rushing their stuff to market without proper QA.  If they want to do that, then do what Ford does with the Sync/Touch updates and airgap them on a USB drive.
 
2017-09-14 10:41:54 AM  

farkeruk: I really don't like this sort of thing (software developer of 30 years experience).

When people made early video games in cabinets in arcades, you didn't have bugs. Same with games that were sold for Amigas. Because they were impossible to patch, people tested the shiat out of stuff before it went out the door.

Roll forward to today, software is full of bugs on release, because you can always patch it. Which doesn't really matter with games, but when you're doing car software, it really does.


Yes, this!
Add in completely incompetent programers as well, and you have the real answer.
 
2017-09-14 10:58:47 AM  

farkeruk: I really don't like this sort of thing (software developer of 30 years experience).

When people made early video games in cabinets in arcades, you didn't have bugs. Same with games that were sold for Amigas. Because they were impossible to patch, people tested the shiat out of stuff before it went out the door.

Roll forward to today, software is full of bugs on release, because you can always patch it. Which doesn't really matter with games, but when you're doing car software, it really does.


That's not the issue here.

Tesla purposely used software to limit the driving range of its lower end cars so to create more distinctions between it and their higher-end models. During Irma they lifted the self-imposed range restriction through a software update.
 
2017-09-14 11:11:01 AM  
The battery boost applies to Model S and Model X vehicles that were built and sold with 75 kWh battery packs - but were software-limited to 60 kWh or 70 kWh capacities. Customers who bought the cars got them at a lower price, with an offer of paying to unlock the remaining battery power later.

Uhh this makes me worry about cars becoming software as a service or subscription models. What happens when the EOL the vehicle...
 
2017-09-14 11:15:56 AM  
Just want to point out that this headline is more misleading than usual Fark headlines.

1. The article is about Tesla using software to limit the range of its cars so that it can up-sell you on a more expensive version of the car without the limitation or get you to spend money for a range upgrade. People because aware of this when they gave people the upgrade for free during Irma.

2. The issue of car computers being wireless hacked and doing something to make the car unsafe to drive is hardly unique to Tesla nor a new issue.
 
2017-09-14 11:21:32 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: The battery boost applies to Model S and Model X vehicles that were built and sold with 75 kWh battery packs - but were software-limited to 60 kWh or 70 kWh capacities. Customers who bought the cars got them at a lower price, with an offer of paying to unlock the remaining battery power later.

Uhh this makes me worry about cars becoming software as a service or subscription models. What happens when the EOL the vehicle...


Look at this way:

With just about any car there are three or four different versions you can buy:

1. The no frills base model that sometimes lacks basic features like cruise control.
2. "Sport" version that has most of the typical features, Bluetooth media system, and paddle shifters.
3. "XL" version that has traction control, puddle lights, and built in GPS system.

What Tesla is doing is producing one version of a car, and after the fact you can "upgrade" to the higher-end version.
 
2017-09-14 11:30:00 AM  
"Customers who bought the cars got them at a lower price, with an offer of paying to unlock the remaining battery power later. "

So, DLC and micro-transactions coming soon to a car near you!
 
2017-09-14 12:45:17 PM  
thornhill

Random Anonymous Blackmail: The battery boost applies to Model S and Model X vehicles that were built and sold with 75 kWh battery packs - but were software-limited to 60 kWh or 70 kWh capacities. Customers who bought the cars got them at a lower price, with an offer of paying to unlock the remaining battery power later.

Uhh this makes me worry about cars becoming software as a service or subscription models. What happens when the EOL the vehicle...

Look at this way:

With just about any car there are three or four different versions you can buy:

1. The no frills base model that sometimes lacks basic features like cruise control.
2. "Sport" version that has most of the typical features, Bluetooth media system, and paddle shifters.
3. "XL" version that has traction control, puddle lights, and built in GPS system.

What Tesla is doing is producing one version of a car, and after the fact you can "upgrade" to the higher-end version.


I understand the versioning thing, the real concern is the software as a service. Say you buy a car for 40K but on top of that you have to pay $100 a month to keep up your subscription.
 
2017-09-14 01:39:11 PM  

thornhill: That's not the issue here.

Tesla purposely used software to limit the driving range of its lower end cars so to create more distinctions between it and their higher-end models. During Irma they lifted the self-imposed range restriction through a software update.


I know. I was someone OT that in general, I'm anxious about OTA software and the lack of discipline it introduces. I'm OK with it generally, but cars should be more like destruction tested before release.
 
2017-09-14 01:59:25 PM  

farkeruk: thornhill: That's not the issue here.

Tesla purposely used software to limit the driving range of its lower end cars so to create more distinctions between it and their higher-end models. During Irma they lifted the self-imposed range restriction through a software update.

I know. I was someone OT that in general, I'm anxious about OTA software and the lack of discipline it introduces. I'm OK with it generally, but cars should be more like destruction tested before release.


I get your point, but not to minimize it, I'm far more worried about the constant recalls for new cars because of an apparent lack of quality control.

And at least with an OT update I don't have to wait up to months on a waiting list to get the problem fixed by a dealer, and have to take several hours off of work to bring the car in and wait for the work to be done.
 
2017-09-14 02:47:50 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: thornhill

Random Anonymous Blackmail: The battery boost applies to Model S and Model X vehicles that were built and sold with 75 kWh battery packs - but were software-limited to 60 kWh or 70 kWh capacities. Customers who bought the cars got them at a lower price, with an offer of paying to unlock the remaining battery power later.

Uhh this makes me worry about cars becoming software as a service or subscription models. What happens when the EOL the vehicle...

Look at this way:

With just about any car there are three or four different versions you can buy:

1. The no frills base model that sometimes lacks basic features like cruise control.
2. "Sport" version that has most of the typical features, Bluetooth media system, and paddle shifters.
3. "XL" version that has traction control, puddle lights, and built in GPS system.

What Tesla is doing is producing one version of a car, and after the fact you can "upgrade" to the higher-end version.

I understand the versioning thing, the real concern is the software as a service. Say you buy a car for 40K but on top of that you have to pay $100 a month to keep up your subscription.


I'm not aware that there is a subscription service for Tesla software, but if there is, that's an issue for consumers. If they don't like that then don't buy a Tesla. There are plenty of non-Tesla EV alternatives.
 
2017-09-14 03:22:02 PM  
thornhill:
What Tesla is doing is producing one version of a car, and after the fact you can "upgrade" to the higher-end version.

Sears et al got into trouble doing something similar.
Granted, they were using labels instead of software.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/04/lawnmower_settlement.h​t​ml
 
2017-09-14 03:39:31 PM  

MostlyLurking: thornhill:
What Tesla is doing is producing one version of a car, and after the fact you can "upgrade" to the higher-end version.

Sears et al got into trouble doing something similar.
Granted, they were using labels instead of software.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/04/lawnmower_settlement.ht​ml


How is that similar?

From your link:

Specifically, the complaint stated that the defendants sold "identical, but differently and misleadingly labeled, engines at different prices -- with higher prices for engines labeled with purported higher horsepower." In other words, the companies took two identical engines, slapped different labels on them, and sold them at significantly different prices.

The software does in fact affect Tesla cars' performance.
 
2017-09-14 04:27:24 PM  

thornhill: MostlyLurking: thornhill:
Specifically, the complaint stated that the defendants sold "identical, but differently and misleadingly labeled, engines at different prices -- with higher prices for engines labeled with purported higher horsepower." In other words, the companies took two identical engines, slapped different labels on them, and sold them at significantly different prices.

The software does in fact affect Tesla cars' performance.


Yes, I agree that the software does affect the performance/features.
My point is that the hardware is identical between Tesla versions.

I don't know if the software differences matter to a court if everything else is the same.
 
2017-09-14 05:25:40 PM  

itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.


Its probably already been said.. But this is why I only buy Japanese cars that are made in Japan, not Ohio or Kentucky.
 
2017-09-14 09:29:06 PM  

Shadow Blasko: itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.

Its probably already been said.. But this is why I only buy Japanese cars that are made in Japan, not Ohio or Kentucky.


"Made in Ohio" means they bolted it together there. Doesn't mean anything about the parts. My alternator might well have been made in China or Thailand or anywhere.
 
2017-09-14 09:55:18 PM  

itcamefromschenectady: Shadow Blasko: itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.

Its probably already been said.. But this is why I only buy Japanese cars that are made in Japan, not Ohio or Kentucky.

"Made in Ohio" means they bolted it together there. Doesn't mean anything about the parts. My alternator might well have been made in China or Thailand or anywhere.


Obviously you don't know about Honda's Midwest operations. They do a substantial portion of sourcing and assembly here. If I recall correctly, after Saturn folded, the accord was at one point the most "American made" car in production.
 
2017-09-15 02:46:42 AM  
Man, the DOT software QA validation office director's face must be bright red over this.
 
2017-09-15 05:59:01 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: Shadow Blasko: itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.

Its probably already been said.. But this is why I only buy Japanese cars that are made in Japan, not Ohio or Kentucky.

"Made in Ohio" means they bolted it together there. Doesn't mean anything about the parts. My alternator might well have been made in China or Thailand or anywhere.


Made in Wherever is a phrase that has to meet FTC regulations on having a certain percentage of parts are locally sourced and if a product is found to not meet that you can take them to court and get them for false advertisement.

Assembled in Wherever is the phrase you're really discussing.  Assembled in Wherever means parts were sourced from Anywhere and bolted together in Wherever.
 
2017-09-15 06:00:59 AM  

Shadow Blasko: itcamefromschenectady: Shadow Blasko: itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.

Its probably already been said.. But this is why I only buy Japanese cars that are made in Japan, not Ohio or Kentucky.

"Made in Ohio" means they bolted it together there. Doesn't mean anything about the parts. My alternator might well have been made in China or Thailand or anywhere.

Obviously you don't know about Honda's Midwest operations. They do a substantial portion of sourcing and assembly here. If I recall correctly, after Saturn folded, the accord was at one point the most "American made" car in production.


Or hasn't looked into automotive import taxes....it costs them less to manufacture stuff here than it does to manufacture there and ship across an ocean due to import taxes.
 
2017-09-15 06:40:41 AM  

hashtag.acronym: itcamefromschenectady: Shadow Blasko: itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.

Its probably already been said.. But this is why I only buy Japanese cars that are made in Japan, not Ohio or Kentucky.

"Made in Ohio" means they bolted it together there. Doesn't mean anything about the parts. My alternator might well have been made in China or Thailand or anywhere.

Made in Wherever is a phrase that has to meet FTC regulations on having a certain percentage of parts are locally sourced and if a product is found to not meet that you can take them to court and get them for false advertisement.

Assembled in Wherever is the phrase you're really discussing.  Assembled in Wherever means parts were sourced from Anywhere and bolted together in Wherever.


Nobody is going to take farkers like Shadow to court for FTC regulations, and I was talking about the Monroney sticker which probably says "assembled", so you're merely trying to be "Internet correct" about an irrelevancy.

Do you really think that my car didn't have a global supply chain for the parts?
 
2017-09-15 06:57:35 AM  

hashtag.acronym: Shadow Blasko: itcamefromschenectady: Shadow Blasko: itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.

Its probably already been said.. But this is why I only buy Japanese cars that are made in Japan, not Ohio or Kentucky.

"Made in Ohio" means they bolted it together there. Doesn't mean anything about the parts. My alternator might well have been made in China or Thailand or anywhere.

Obviously you don't know about Honda's Midwest operations. They do a substantial portion of sourcing and assembly here. If I recall correctly, after Saturn folded, the accord was at one point the most "American made" car in production.

Or hasn't looked into automotive import taxes....it costs them less to manufacture stuff here than it does to manufacture there and ship across an ocean due to import taxes.


From a 2011 article:

"Honda is overhauling its global supply chain to get more parts from low-cost Asian countries for North America and slash local procurement in Japan. "

http://www.autonews.com/article/20110801/OEM01/308019988/honda-moves-​t​o-slash-supply-chain-costs

They are using parts from China to replace parts previously made in Japan, and yes, they do ship things across oceans to supply North American factories.
 
2017-09-15 07:07:58 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: hashtag.acronym: itcamefromschenectady: Shadow Blasko: itcamefromschenectady: Sid_6.7: Soon all of our cars will have revolving undocumented features.

A couple of months ago my 2016 Accord started displaying some really weird screen in place of what would normally be there. I checked the interwebs and discovered that it was a factory test screen, and I had to go through a specific sequence involving the touch screen and the steering wheel buttons to convince it that everything was working and to go back to normal.

I have a 2016 Accord, and so far the cam gear's cracked (which made the engine sound like it was knocking) and the alternator's failed (which required a tow). It's making me think, what do I have to lose by getting an "unreliable" car like a Chrysler or an Audi or something.

Its probably already been said.. But this is why I only buy Japanese cars that are made in Japan, not Ohio or Kentucky.

"Made in Ohio" means they bolted it together there. Doesn't mean anything about the parts. My alternator might well have been made in China or Thailand or anywhere.

Made in Wherever is a phrase that has to meet FTC regulations on having a certain percentage of parts are locally sourced and if a product is found to not meet that you can take them to court and get them for false advertisement.

Assembled in Wherever is the phrase you're really discussing.  Assembled in Wherever means parts were sourced from Anywhere and bolted together in Wherever.

Nobody is going to take farkers like Shadow to court for FTC regulations, and I was talking about the Monroney sticker which probably says "assembled", so you're merely trying to be "Internet correct" about an irrelevancy.

Do you really think that my car didn't have a global supply chain for the parts?


If nobody is going to take people to court for false advertisement, then what is the point of the FTC mandates and laws?  Seriously.  What's the point?  So you and I can bicker about Made versus Assembled?

A global supply chain doesn't matter provided enough of a percentage of parts are sourced from where "Made in" is located at.  How do you think the Japanese are able to sell "Made in America" cars?  Answer: Because their manufacturing plants are in America and they buy enough parts from American companies who source from America to be more American-made than American brands....

Don't source enough parts from the global supply chain from America?  You get the "Assembled in" label.

A great example of this is when I build steel fence or handrail for people.  Half the time it's "Made in America", the other half it's "Assembled in America".  Same person, same shop, same work...but half the time my steel comes from Canada.

At least I'm talking fact; you're talking probably.  Also, there is no "internet correct", only correct or incorrect.
 
2017-09-15 07:09:21 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: From a 2011 article:

"Honda is overhauling its global supply chain to get more parts from low-cost Asian countries for North America and slash local procurement in Japan. "

http://www.autonews.com/article/20110801/OEM01/308019988/honda-moves- t o-slash-supply-chain-costs

They are using parts from China to replace parts previously made in Japan, and yes, they do ship things across oceans to supply North American factories.


From my previous post:

hashtag.acronym: A global supply chain doesn't matter provided enough of a percentage of parts are sourced from where "Made in" is located at.  How do you think the Japanese are able to sell "Made in America" cars?  Answer: Because their manufacturing plants are in America and they buy enough parts from American companies who source from America to be more American-made than American brands....

 
2017-09-15 09:18:50 AM  

hashtag.acronym: itcamefromschenectady: From a 2011 article:

"Honda is overhauling its global supply chain to get more parts from low-cost Asian countries for North America and slash local procurement in Japan. "

http://www.autonews.com/article/20110801/OEM01/308019988/honda-moves- t o-slash-supply-chain-costs

They are using parts from China to replace parts previously made in Japan, and yes, they do ship things across oceans to supply North American factories.

From my previous post:

hashtag.acronym: A global supply chain doesn't matter provided enough of a percentage of parts are sourced from where "Made in" is located at.  How do you think the Japanese are able to sell "Made in America" cars?  Answer: Because their manufacturing plants are in America and they buy enough parts from American companies who source from America to be more American-made than American brands....


I just want to note for the record that I was specifically talking about the Accord.

Honda made a specific effort with the Accord to source as many domestic parts as they could.

I'm sitting in SW Ohio. There are 3 Honda plants within 150 miles of me right now.

We were innundated with media, even hour long commercials, to explain how the Accord was going to be the most "Made in America" car since Saturn.

Make no mistake, I love Honda. My Odyssey is sitting 10 feet from me right now. Before her I had my Integra. My Integra had over a half million miles on her when I sold her, and the Odyssey just cracked 200,000.

I don't think I'd be saying that about an Accord. I could be wrong... It's just my experience... Thats all I meant.
 
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