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(War is Boring)   Yo, General, I heard you like drones carrying missiles   ( warisboring.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, F-16 Fighting Falcon, Flying Missile Rail, Air-to-air missile, F-22 Raptor, United States Air Force, AIM-120 AMRAAM, F-35 Lightning II, Missile  
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4682 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2017 at 6:24 PM (36 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



37 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-09-13 12:03:41 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 12:15:53 PM  
Big drones have little drones
Upon their backs to fight 'em
And little drones have littler drones
And so ad infinitum
 
2017-09-13 12:22:42 PM  
Cluster bombs, now that would be recursive...
 
2017-09-13 12:42:57 PM  
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"When I was twelve, I helped my daddy build a bomb shelter in our basement because some fool parked a dozen warheads 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Well, this thing could park a couple hundred warheads off Washington and New York and no one would know anything about it till it was all over."

/First thing I thought of.
 
2017-09-13 05:48:29 PM  

IgG4: Cluster bombs, now that would be recursive...


Or MIRVs.
 
2017-09-13 06:36:41 PM  
No one knows who struck first...

/odds of dying in a shooting war are getting better and batter
 
2017-09-13 06:39:23 PM  
So, we're back to a flying aircraft carrier?
 
2017-09-13 06:40:44 PM  
Am I having flashbacks to 2003?
 
2017-09-13 06:41:13 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: No one knows who struck first...

/odds of dying in a shooting war are getting better and batter


As long as it's waffle batter I'm all good.  Waffles are delicious.
 
2017-09-13 06:48:49 PM  
Pretty badass lil drone prolly no missiles :(
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2017-09-13 06:50:39 PM  
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#archillect
 
2017-09-13 06:51:49 PM  
Seems to me the weakness of all these swarms of drones are the communications links. Jam them, and all those features which extend the range of our fighters/bombers suddenly are no longer operational. Hack them, and the weapons could be turned on our own people.
 
2017-09-13 06:53:21 PM  
An immense flock of drones, blocking the sunlight, raining death from the sky.
Coming soon to a theater of war near you.
 
2017-09-13 06:57:18 PM  
Some General's been watching a lot of Macross, I bet...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxnC6jkJyEM
Macross Frontier Missile Massacre
Youtube nxnC6jkJyEM
 
2017-09-13 07:04:19 PM  
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2017-09-13 07:04:45 PM  
i.telegraph.co.ukView Full Size

Weapomized Geese mes amigos. THAT is the future.
 
2017-09-13 07:08:06 PM  

mongbiohazard: Seems to me the weakness of all these swarms of drones are the communications links. Jam them, and all those features which extend the range of our fighters/bombers suddenly are no longer operational. Hack them, and the weapons could be turned on our own people.


First thing I thought of when seeing drone swarms was "why not build an aimbot turret on the ground that takes all those suckers out? you could even strap a jamming beacon on them for a 2-for-1 deal", and the solution to that would then be to just have a simple default method in the programming that says "if !communication, attacknearesttarget()" and then it becomes an AI driven clusterbomb
 
2017-09-13 07:23:16 PM  

berylman: [i.telegraph.co.uk image 620x387]
Weapomized Geese mes amigos. THAT is the future.


No. On Arrakis, it's Desert Power.

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2017-09-13 07:23:37 PM  

AdamK: mongbiohazard: Seems to me the weakness of all these swarms of drones are the communications links. Jam them, and all those features which extend the range of our fighters/bombers suddenly are no longer operational. Hack them, and the weapons could be turned on our own people.

First thing I thought of when seeing drone swarms was "why not build an aimbot turret on the ground that takes all those suckers out? you could even strap a jamming beacon on them for a 2-for-1 deal", and the solution to that would then be to just have a simple default method in the programming that says "if !communication, attacknearesttarget()" and then it becomes an AI driven clusterbomb


Weapons systems like these have backup of backup systems that don't need links or GPS to strike.  Sure they wouldn't be able to take out an air to sit but they could then be used as conventional weapons that still have decent accuracy to within 100 yards.

It would take a turncoat of epic proportions to be able to hack a weapon system like this though.  So jamming, yeah, an option, but I don't see a hack unless developers put in a thermal exhaust port level backdoor into them.  The encryption the military rotates at varying times and dates... Even seconds, so once it's synced you'd have to be synced with it, which means you'd already have to be authenticated to hack it.

Jamming on the other hand is possible, but they use infrared to target once they are launched, not gps, nor the launch vehicles targeting.  So unless you can find a way to jam IR, once they're launched jamming will be no good either.
 
2017-09-13 07:37:06 PM  
I thought Jim Jones was into Koolaid.
 
2017-09-13 07:49:21 PM  
I can see how the idea came up, but even at the "think tank full of engineers and experts sitting around a conference table drinking coffee and talking it over" stage, this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Item:  It's a huge advantage in air-to-air combat if you have both guided missiles capable of defeating any stealth effort by your enemy AND which are deployable from beyond the enemy's missile envelope.  You simply fire, and turn the hell around, punch afterburner, and they never even get the opportunity to shoot at you.

Item:  A drone carrying missiles further from the launch aircraft  to extend their range needs to have its own fuel, engine, airframe, avionics, all of which are weight that wasn't there before.  This reduces the payload and/or performance and/or range of the original aircraft.  More to the point, it would almost have to do so more than simply replacing the existing missile with one that carries more fuel and has longer-range sensors.  Yes, that extended-range missile will be heavier, but not as much as a whole separate carrier drone.

Item:  In order to combat the inefficiency of a separate vehicle with its own fuel, engine, and airframe weight, the drone in question should carry multiple missiles.  Therefore it should be expected to survive for some specific engagement period once launched.  This means it needs stealth capability, and a certain amount of aerobatic performance to evade enemy fire.  This is all hampered by the nature of a drone itself:  requiring a control linkage to a remote operator, which can be jammed or experience malfunction, and which introduces response lag by definition.

Conclusion:  What are we really avoiding here by introducing a "missile-carrier" drone?  Replacing rails or even wings on existing aircraft to carry the alternative (heavier air-to-air missiles with extended range)?  Designing said extended-range missiles?  How is any of that harder or more expensive than this concept?  Just develop longer range missiles if you're worried about not being able to out-range the enemy anymore.  There's no way that little mini-aircraft make that easier or more efficient or effective.

Somebody (I don't remember who) lambasted a certain era of G.I. Joe vehicles' tendency to come with "mini-vehicles" attached to them that could pop-off mid flight and zip around by saying (in regard to that Cobra Blackbird-looking-plane with the little mini-jet between its tailfins):  "See that guy in the little jet between the fins?  Look at that thing!  How much fuel do you think that tiny thing can carry?  It's barely bigger than its pilot!  How long do you think he's gonna be able to fly around, shooting at Joes and missing?"

That's what this concept reminds me of.  Stupid Cobra mini-vehicles.
 
2017-09-13 07:53:38 PM  
Does this scare the shiat out of anyone else?  Add this to Elon Musk's evil AI warnings and *bam*, Skynet.
 
2017-09-13 07:57:42 PM  

BunkyBrewman: Does this scare the shiat out of anyone else?  Add this to Elon Musk's evil AI warnings and *bam*, Skynet.


Pssh on your looking to Musk like a prophet.  Everything was evident beforehand.
 
2017-09-13 08:11:28 PM  
We are trying to combat anti-air missiles with a 200 mile range by launching drones that slowly move forward 100 miles and then launch missiles with a 100 mile range?

OK... guess we could do that... although wouldn't their missiles, which fly faster than our drones, hit first?  And wouldn't our drones be far easier to shoot down than missiles are, making them easy to defend against?

 Hmmm... hey I have an idea!  This may sound crazy, but why don't we extend the range of our missiles?
 
2017-09-13 08:17:55 PM  
Add an airbreathing ramjet stage to the existing missiles.
 
2017-09-13 08:26:30 PM  

mongbiohazard: Seems to me the weakness of all these swarms of drones are the communications links. Jam them, and all those features which extend the range of our fighters/bombers suddenly are no longer operational. Hack them, and the weapons could be turned on our own people.


That won't happen.

Because reasons.

Trust us.
 
2017-09-13 08:35:47 PM  

dkulprit: It would take a turncoat of epic proportions to be able to hack a weapon system like this though.


i.ytimg.comView Full Size


you rang?
 
2017-09-13 09:05:38 PM  

BunkyBrewman: Does this scare the shiat out of anyone else?  Add this to Elon Musk's evil AI warnings and *bam*, Skynet.


What does AI have to do with fancy remote controlled airplanes?
 
OOF
2017-09-13 09:24:04 PM  
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2017-09-13 09:28:07 PM  

CoysOdie: I thought Jim Jones was into Koolaid.


Damn it. Beat me to the punch. I was going to go with "Long range Kool-Aid delivery system."
 
2017-09-13 09:35:21 PM  

Eravior: CoysOdie: I thought Jim Jones was into Koolaid.

Damn it. Beat me to the punch. I was going to go with "Long range Kool-Aid delivery system."


Actually Flavor-Aid.
 
2017-09-13 09:36:40 PM  

berylman: [i.telegraph.co.uk image 620x387]
Weapomized Geese mes amigos. THAT is the future.

Nah, its:
Nananannananannannannanananna
BATBOMB!

/bat bombs were actually researched
//the idea was that all the places they would roost in Japanese houses would be ideal ignition areas
///but one of them managed to get back to base...
 
2017-09-13 09:44:41 PM  
So we rip out all the meat retention technology from F-16s how much drone can be added?

That's a good question.

You're talking about building an aerodreadnought, can this be done more quickly than building a new carrier?

The control of these flying assets will require many stealth-ed mini-satellites in place and the ability to fresh launch large numbers of new ones using something not unlike cluster bomb configuration.
 
2017-09-14 12:15:03 AM  

2wolves: The control of these flying assets will require many stealth-ed mini-satellites in place and the ability to fresh launch large numbers of new ones using something not unlike cluster bomb configuration.


SpaceX might not mind renting some launches. Tossing up some well-used rockets which are able to lift a lot into low Earth orbit could be done fairly quickly if they're given some more inventory. Especially if some more barges will be lurking under tactically useful orbits... or some Navy ships are equipped to secure a landed rocket.
 
2017-09-14 03:01:20 AM  

Eravior: CoysOdie: I thought Jim Jones was into Koolaid.

Damn it. Beat me to the punch. I was going to go with "Long range Kool-Aid delivery system."


Yours is better.
Touche.
 
2017-09-14 12:50:34 PM  

2wolves: So we rip out all the meat retention technology from F-16s how much drone can be added?

That's a good question.


Not as much as people seem to think.

Maybe one or two thousand pounds' worth of equipment, the largest fraction being the ejection seat itself, followed by the cockpit floor (which is a structural component so you may as well keep it), the instruments, wiring, the canopy, and the pressurization system. Not much on an airframe that is close to ten tons dry.

By the time you add back in all the computers, radios, sensors, power supplies, and cooling for all those drone electronics you haven't saved much weight (bearing in mind you can't just stick a PC motherboard where the seat used to be, this stuff has to be ruggedized to handle military conditions). And the airframe will still be limited to 9 Gs for structural reasons, and it will still be a Viper so it'll still be short on gas.

The only net gain will be expendability--which is dubious in the first place because it's still a 30 million dollar aircraft carrying 10 million dollars in weapons.

The whole "drone swarm" pipedream is predicated on a generation of unmanned aircraft that can ignore the laws of physics and economics because something something no pilot something something. Any drone cheap enough to be truly expendable is just a crappy missile, and any drone capable enough to replace a manned aircraft is too expensive to risk on dangerous missions.
 
2017-09-14 06:46:40 PM  

Cry Hentai And Release The Tentacles of War!: Not as much as people seem to think.


I didn't know which is why I asked.  Fark has people with actual knowledge about almost anything from what a ferrier does to how much meat mass a F-16 has.
 
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