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(The Age (Melbourne))   "My parents were too strict, so now I'll never punish my daughter for anything bad she does". Expect a follow-up tag in 15 years about how said daughter held up a liquor store   ( theage.com.au) divider line
    More: Facepalm, decision making, confident young woman, better decisions, disastrous effect, screen time, migrant culture, constant battle, mistakes  
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3962 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2017 at 10:16 AM (36 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-13 08:32:58 AM  
Kids kind of raise themselves. Just because you don't hit them doesn't mean they don't learn right from wrong. Likewise if you do hit them, they still might not learn it.

Your job as a parent is to set them on the right course to be good people without your supervision.
 
2017-09-13 08:45:52 AM  
Quote marks are for quotes, idiotmitter.
 
2017-09-13 08:53:37 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Quote marks are for quotes, idiotmitter.


But, maybe they were scare quotes to, you know, "accentuate" the facepalminess of the situation.
 
2017-09-13 09:04:34 AM  
So, on which season of Teen Mom can we expect to see the daughter?
 
2017-09-13 09:09:08 AM  
Well, if you teach your kid empathy and a respect for people, then you won't HAVE to. Don't raise a shiat kid.
 
2017-09-13 09:25:14 AM  
Sounds a lot like how a buddy and his wife raised their son. He turned into a complete shiathead, always in trouble and I frankly am not sure how he hasn't spent more time in jail. Ok, I lied. He rarely farked up severely (mild shenanigans at worst), was an honors student in HS and is a rising star in the Air Force Academy.
 
2017-09-13 09:30:34 AM  

doglover: Kids kind of raise themselves. Just because you don't hit them doesn't mean they don't learn right from wrong. Likewise if you do hit them, they still might not learn it.

Your job as a parent is to set them on the right course to be good people without your supervision.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 09:53:06 AM  
Most extremes of anything tend to be bad.  How about some moderation?
 
2017-09-13 10:06:19 AM  
Last night my kid got upset that she got the 'worst' cupcake on my wife's birthday, had a mini tantrum and didn't sing happy birthday to her when it was time, so I took away her cupcake.

Don't fark with me.
 
2017-09-13 10:18:00 AM  
Don't worry, mom. In a couple years, you can cash her outside howbada
 
2017-09-13 10:18:02 AM  
Great, a whole generation of "adults" with Affluenza...
 
2017-09-13 10:19:31 AM  
What your parents did is irrelevant.
You are you, and no one and nothing decides what you do except you.
 
2017-09-13 10:20:47 AM  
"As many of us were, I was punished as a child. I was afraid of the consequences if I did something wrong, and I grappled with the shame of being "bad". Punishment is often used as a means of control, and particularly for girls, I believe this can have a disastrous effect on how their lives play out."

So I'd like to ask the author why she thinks that boys that get punished have different outcomes.
 
2017-09-13 10:20:58 AM  
Welcome to the world of socialization.  I would be interested to see the results of this lack of discipline on the child.  I figure she will end up a sociopath due to the lack of negative consequences of her actions.
 
2017-09-13 10:21:55 AM  

SpaceyCat: How about some moderation?


What is that?  No, seriously, what is a moderate amount of punishment? I think you'll find that the idea differs wildly from family to family.

/also, punishment is a piss-poor way to adjust the behavior of anyone.  It must be implemented with a near 100% certainty and a certain degree of immediacy relative to the bad act one is trying to curb.
 
2017-09-13 10:24:25 AM  
Subby, sometimes when someone says they were "punished" as a child, they don't mean sent to bed without supper. They mean they were tied to the fire escape all night in December, in Boston.

If I'm not allowed to judge you for slapping a 50 lb person, you're not allowed to judge me for not slapping.

/true story
//"all night" until the BPD showed up
 
2017-09-13 10:25:28 AM  
i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 10:26:05 AM  

ds615: What your parents did is irrelevant.
You are you, and no one and nothing decides what you do except you.


Oh honey. That's awesome. Good luck trying to sell that one
 
2017-09-13 10:26:25 AM  

SpaceyCat: Most extremes of anything tend to be bad.  How about some moderation?


Absolutely not.  There are only two options when raising kids- beating them daily with heavy objects, or letting them do anything they want with no consequences.  There is no such thing as a middle way- you have to pick one or the other.
 
2017-09-13 10:27:20 AM  

bdub77: Last night my kid got upset that she got the 'worst' cupcake on my wife's birthday, had a mini tantrum and didn't sing happy birthday to her when it was time, so I took away her cupcake.

Don't fark with me.


You just wanted another cupcake
 
2017-09-13 10:27:30 AM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: a rising star in the Air Force Academy


Yeah, nothing psychotic about that.
 
2017-09-13 10:28:25 AM  
You Rack Disciprine
i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 10:28:27 AM  

harleyquinnical: Welcome to the world of socialization.  I would be interested to see the results of this lack of discipline on the child.  I figure she will end up a sociopath due to the lack of negative consequences of her actions.


I recommend instead of waiting a decade or two you simply look into child psychology and see that there have been plenty of test cases for a little or no punishment child rearing policy. Maybe google around for applied behavior analysis.

Also the underlined sentence is hopefully the most ridiculous example of ignorance I see in this thread.
 
2017-09-13 10:28:40 AM  
Enough with the mommy blogs, mods.
 
2017-09-13 10:29:18 AM  
Punishment is often used as a means of control

That's right. Because we live in a society that has rules and etiquette and that society punishes people for breaking the rules. At least, the non-rich ones.

Sure, I could go out today and kill someone, but I don't because I know I'll be punished for it, because years of breaking the rules at home and being punished for it taught me you never get away with the bad stuff. My parents broke me of the habit of being a complete asshole, just like I will break the habit of my kids being assholes.

Now as for me, I prefer positive reinforcement to negative reinforcement, but sometimes you've gotta step in and exert some authority.
 
2017-09-13 10:29:49 AM  

Preston Preston: "As many of us were, I was punished as a child. I was afraid of the consequences if I did something wrong, and I grappled with the shame of being "bad". Punishment is often used as a means of control, and particularly for girls, I believe this can have a disastrous effect on how their lives play out."

So I'd like to ask the author why she thinks that boys that get punished have different outcomes.


Boys are tough
Girls are fragile
 
2017-09-13 10:30:05 AM  
Children have lost the benefit of the guilty conscience.  If this is not instilled in you at an early age, you will not give a shiat about anyone or anything else besides yourself.  They need to feel when something is wrong, but also understand why it is wrong.
 
2017-09-13 10:30:53 AM  

SuperChuck: bdub77: Last night my kid got upset that she got the 'worst' cupcake on my wife's birthday, had a mini tantrum and didn't sing happy birthday to her when it was time, so I took away her cupcake.

Don't fark with me.

You just wanted another cupcake


Well, I did buy the cupcakes, all the gifts, and sing the song.

/didn't even eat the one i bought for myself
 
2017-09-13 10:31:35 AM  
Good discipline is a combination of laying out rules, boundaries, and expectations in a clear and understandable way, applying proportionally appropriate punishments for rule-breaking, and rewarding excellence where the child makes good choices in situations that haven't been covered in previous rules, boundaries, and expectations.
 
2017-09-13 10:32:53 AM  

Smackledorfer: harleyquinnical: Welcome to the world of socialization.  I would be interested to see the results of this lack of discipline on the child.  I figure she will end up a sociopath due to the lack of negative consequences of her actions.

I recommend instead of waiting a decade or two you simply look into child psychology and see that there have been plenty of test cases for a little or no punishment child rearing policy. Maybe google around for applied behavior analysis.

Also the underlined sentence is hopefully the most ridiculous example of ignorance I see in this thread.


Wow, you talk of ignorance and send me to child psychology and I was taking a sociological perspective. Thanks.
 
2017-09-13 10:32:54 AM  
We used to do time outs, but not so much anymore since we started using a star chart for rewards.  If the children reach so many stars there are small rewards- there's a large reward at the end of the chart.  I tell you right now, losing a star for not listening is far worse punishment than a time out is.  I have never spanked them, though...my son is on the spectrum and I stopped speaking to a friend after she watched them when he was two years old and spanked him for a tantrum (which he couldn't help) and she didn't even tell us...my older daughter did.  Yes, my kids sass and do things wrong, but I would rather teach them how to do them right than punish them.
 
2017-09-13 10:34:48 AM  
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Well, the world always needs strippers.
 
2017-09-13 10:35:25 AM  

bdub77: Sure, I could go out today and kill someone, but I don't because I know I'll be punished for it,


If that is really what is stopping you from committing homicide, then you are a piece of human garbage.

bdub77: My parents broke me of the habit of being a complete asshole


No, per your claim of why you don't murder people, you remain a complete asshole, you simply know what you won't get away with. Some people do good things and avoid harming one another for somewhat more complex reasons than "society will spank me".

/I'm hoping you didn't actually mean what you typed here.
 
2017-09-13 10:36:23 AM  

tukatz: Children have lost the benefit of the guilty conscience.  If this is not instilled in you at an early age, you will not give a shiat about anyone or anything else besides yourself.  They need to feel when something is wrong, but also understand why it is wrong.


When I was a child my mother used to tell me what not to do and why. If I chose to do it anyway I was punished but I always knew why.
 
2017-09-13 10:36:34 AM  
The one thing I'll never do is count to three or threaten to count to three or any variation on this. I'm not the phone company threatening to cancel service. I see parents do this and all I think is here's a kid completely misbehaving and you're over there counting as though you're about to play hide and seek. Stop farking counting and discipline the kid. Who came up with this thing anyway?
 
2017-09-13 10:37:34 AM  
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2017-09-13 10:38:18 AM  

adamgreeney: Well, if you teach your kid empathy and a respect for people, then you won't HAVE to. Don't raise a shiat kid.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 10:39:50 AM  

Russ1642: The one thing I'll never do is count to three or threaten to count to three or any variation on this. I'm not the phone company threatening to cancel service. I see parents do this and all I think is here's a kid completely misbehaving and you're over there counting as though you're about to play hide and seek. Stop farking counting and discipline the kid. Who came up with this thing anyway?


I count to three all the time, it works well.  Kids aren't robots, they can't turn their emotions on and off like a switch.  Giving them a period of time to think on their actions helps. If you immediately go straight to discipline, it escalates the situation immediately and doesn't really solve the problem.
 
2017-09-13 10:42:31 AM  

Russ1642: The one thing I'll never do is count to three or threaten to count to three or any variation on this. I'm not the phone company threatening to cancel service. I see parents do this and all I think is here's a kid completely misbehaving and you're over there counting as though you're about to play hide and seek. Stop farking counting and discipline the kid. Who came up with this thing anyway?


I like when they get to three and start over. Go ahead, teach your kids that adults are all bluff and bluster and not bright enough to know what comes after three.
 
2017-09-13 10:43:49 AM  

Russ1642: The one thing I'll never do is count to three or threaten to count to three or any variation on this. I'm not the phone company threatening to cancel service. I see parents do this and all I think is here's a kid completely misbehaving and you're over there counting as though you're about to play hide and seek. Stop farking counting and discipline the kid. Who came up with this thing anyway?


It depends on the situation. I will count when it's time to go upstairs to get ready for bed or maybe to put their shoes on to go somewhere, it's more like a routine with them if they are doing something like climbing on the couch or just sitting there not doing what they are supposed to. And the reason I use it is because they know that if they don't complete or start the task on time they'll lose a privilege. And because they need a few seconds to figure out what you are talking about, because often they are in their own world. It's a little bit like a trick of the subconscious. You can apply the counting to lots of different things, but for example, if my boy is hitting my daughter or something, that sh*t doesn't fly.
 
2017-09-13 10:46:03 AM  
Yeah, my sister tried this, and produced a narcissistic asshole who damn near got himself arrested in high school for threatening a teacher. Grandma had to take him in to raise for the last 3 years before graduation, and he spent several years pissing off bosses and colleagues.

You're doing your kid absolutely no favors by not teaching them how their behavior works in the real world. Love them, guide them, but you have to have restrictions and limitations for their sake.

Lord of the Flies is NOT a parenting book.
 
2017-09-13 10:47:55 AM  

Russ1642: The one thing I'll never do is count to three or threaten to count to three or any variation on this. I'm not the phone company threatening to cancel service. I see parents do this and all I think is here's a kid completely misbehaving and you're over there counting as though you're about to play hide and seek. Stop farking counting and discipline the kid. Who came up with this thing anyway?


So, it's not the actual counting that bothers you...it's the lack of follow through.  Should I punish you now for the bad advice or should I count to three?
 
2017-09-13 10:48:53 AM  

houstondragon: Yeah, my sister tried this, and produced a narcissistic asshole who damn near got himself arrested in high school for threatening a teacher. Grandma had to take him in to raise for the last 3 years before graduation, and he spent several years pissing off bosses and colleagues.

You're doing your kid absolutely no favors by not teaching them how their behavior works in the real world. Love them, guide them, but you have to have restrictions and limitations for their sake.

Lord of the Flies is NOT a parenting book.


Didn't rtfa did you?
 
2017-09-13 10:51:04 AM  

Smackledorfer: houstondragon: Yeah, my sister tried this, and produced a narcissistic asshole who damn near got himself arrested in high school for threatening a teacher. Grandma had to take him in to raise for the last 3 years before graduation, and he spent several years pissing off bosses and colleagues.

You're doing your kid absolutely no favors by not teaching them how their behavior works in the real world. Love them, guide them, but you have to have restrictions and limitations for their sake.

Lord of the Flies is NOT a parenting book.

Didn't rtfa did you?


It's Fark, did you even have to ask.
 
2017-09-13 10:52:50 AM  
I mean that's cool...you don't have to teach your kids that actions have consequences. But someone is going to.

I get wanting to teach them and not just making them learn...but there has to be boundaries and consequences. Well, that is how I do it, at least.

Counting to 3 and timeouts have seemed to work for my kids. The one weird trick I never use is the first middle last name scold. I should do that tonight if I need to.
 
2017-09-13 11:02:33 AM  

Smackledorfer: SpaceyCat: How about some moderation?

What is that?  No, seriously, what is a moderate amount of punishment? I think you'll find that the idea differs wildly from family to family.

/also, punishment is a piss-poor way to adjust the behavior of anyone.  It must be implemented with a near 100% certainty and a certain degree of immediacy relative to the bad act one is trying to curb.


Basically rearing children and training dogs are about the same until the kid is like 3.
 
2017-09-13 11:05:48 AM  
Everything in moderation, and all that. I get not *hitting* the kid, and I also get that the wrong kinds of punishment can result in a kid only learning that it's bad to get caught. That doesn't mean you take away all negative consequences, though.

Still, better than the other extreme.
 
2017-09-13 11:06:04 AM  

macadamnut: Russ1642: The one thing I'll never do is count to three or threaten to count to three or any variation on this. I'm not the phone company threatening to cancel service. I see parents do this and all I think is here's a kid completely misbehaving and you're over there counting as though you're about to play hide and seek. Stop farking counting and discipline the kid. Who came up with this thing anyway?

I like when they get to three and start over. Go ahead, teach your kids that adults are all bluff and bluster and not bright enough to know what comes after three.


When I was really young my mom would go 2 and a half... 2 and three-quarters, 2 and seven-eighths... if I was at a party or something her threats were empty because she probably wanted to be there more than me -- I didn't get along with other kids because I didn't want to do things I wasn't interested in just for the sake of making friends, I'd rather be home alone. Still the same way -- when people say they watch a hit TV show only to have something to talk to their coworkers about I'm like wow what a waste of time I'd rather not talk at all.

But not terribly relevent since my mom was a semi-abusive alcoholic asshole and unhappy spiteful biatch who every now and then had CPS up her ass but never lost any custody until her youngest was 17 anyway. Which I find hilarious.
 
2017-09-13 11:09:34 AM  

harleyquinnical: Welcome to the world of socialization.  I would be interested to see the results of this lack of discipline on the child.  I figure she will end up a sociopath due to the lack of negative consequences of her actions.


Open your eyes and look around, especially at colleges.. you can't farking miss it !   And it is too late to fix that.  You have to teach right from wrong from day one, and few people do that. Hence snowflakes....
 
2017-09-13 11:10:54 AM  
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