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(The Root)   Someone paints a statue of Columbus's hands with red paint. Police are calling it a hate crime. Fifteenth century Italian community reportedly shaken, worried   ( theroot.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, New York, United States, New York City, Indigenous peoples of the Americas, Americas, hate crime, CBS New York, Native Americans in the United States  
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911 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2017 at 7:01 PM (31 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



129 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-09-12 04:42:39 PM  
A country that can't admit to genocide of Native Americans can call that a hate crime? Boy are we exceptional.
 
2017-09-12 04:49:13 PM  
I feel like Columbus got a bad rap. He's just a dude who got lost.
 
2017-09-12 04:56:27 PM  

FortyHams: I feel like Columbus got a bad rap. He's just a dude who got lost.


I got lost when I was visiting Rome a few years ago, but somehow managed to avoid slaughtering and enslaving thousands of local Italians as a result of my getting lost. So I guess that makes me a much better person than Columbus.
 
2017-09-12 05:03:40 PM  
I'd like to rage about the controversy surrounding possessive apostrophe on proper names ending in s because Columbus's looks stupid as all hell to me.

Sit and listen a while.  We'll serve snacks while I bellow.
 
2017-09-12 05:04:38 PM  
I just started reading Bartolomé de las Casas book A ShortAccount of the Destruction of the Indies - on the actions of the Spaniards in the new world, it's honestly the most brutal thing I've ever read. I have a hard time trying to think of anything in history that was as brutal and inhumane. It's free on Kindle, of you think Columbus should be honoured then have a look, it doesn't take long to get into accounts of incredible cruelty.

There is a lot of debate over how accurate his claims of witnessing events first hand are, but if even one tenth is true it's still horrific.
 
2017-09-12 05:09:41 PM  

Cyberluddite: FortyHams: I feel like Columbus got a bad rap. He's just a dude who got lost.

I got lost when I was visiting Rome a few years ago, but somehow managed to avoid slaughtering and enslaving thousands of local Italians as a result of my getting lost. So I guess that makes me a much better person than Columbus.


He was in title the governor of Hispaniola until 1500 when he was deposed and arrested for being a shiat governor. He spent most of his time poking around the Caribbean and Central America impressing natives by predicting eclipses and shiat.

What really farked over the natives were the diseases the Europeans brought over which caused a massive depopulation in the first several decades after they arrived. Influenza also killed Columbus.

There is Columbus the dope who couldn't admit that this wasn't Asia and Columbus the symbol of all European colonization and it's consequences.
 
2017-09-12 05:12:09 PM  

FortyHams: There is Columbus the dope who couldn't admit that this wasn't Asia and Columbus the symbol of all European colonization and it's consequences.


Columbuses?
 
2017-09-12 05:18:14 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: FortyHams: There is Columbus the dope who couldn't admit that this wasn't Asia and Columbus the symbol of all European colonization and it's consequences.

Columbuses?


Columbi
 
2017-09-12 05:24:27 PM  
I still don't get why so many Italian Americans look to him as a role model when YOU HAVE LEONARDO GOD DAMNED DA VINCI, JESUS HE'S AWESOME!  Columbus had a tremendous impact on the world, no doubt about it, good and bad but he was just some schmuck who accidentally the new world.
 
2017-09-12 05:40:23 PM  

nekom: I still don't get why so many Italian Americans look to him as a role model when YOU HAVE LEONARDO GOD DAMNED DA VINCI, JESUS HE'S AWESOME!  Columbus had a tremendous impact on the world, no doubt about it, good and bad but he was just some schmuck who accidentally the new world.


or Bruno Sammartino.
 
2017-09-12 05:54:37 PM  
Why don't you all say it to Columbus's face?

Yeah, thought so.  Cowards.
 
2017-09-12 06:14:59 PM  

FortyHams: Soup4Bonnie: FortyHams: There is Columbus the dope who couldn't admit that this wasn't Asia and Columbus the symbol of all European colonization and it's consequences.

Columbuses?

Columbi


img.fark.netView Full Size


Just one more thing...
 
2017-09-12 06:15:59 PM  
Hey, he might have been a genocidal, racist asshole, but at least he wasn't a loser and a traitor to his country. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
 
2017-09-12 06:30:16 PM  
Hate Crime - Noun - a crime motivated by racial, sexual, or other prejudice, typically one involving violence.

And all while meeting none of the criteria
 
2017-09-12 06:36:02 PM  
When those natives get all upity the solution was to hunt them and kill them.  Then you take their bodies, dismember them, and hang them around the camp Joffery GOT style to discourage further unrest.  That's Columbus for you.
 
2017-09-12 07:03:42 PM  
wmg.jpView Full Size
 
2017-09-12 07:04:43 PM  

Cyberluddite: FortyHams: I feel like Columbus got a bad rap. He's just a dude who got lost.

I got lost when I was visiting Rome a few years ago, but somehow managed to avoid slaughtering and enslaving thousands of local Italians as a result of my getting lost. So I guess that makes me a much better person than Columbus.


Millions.

And raping underage girls (well, somebody was doing the raping).
 
2017-09-12 07:06:20 PM  
Columbus knew damn well he hadn't reached the Orient.  He just had to make up a story to mask his incompetence and pay off the money he owed.
 
2017-09-12 07:07:28 PM  
Don Juan de Oñate founded Santa Fe, New Mexico. He also cut off the left feet of dozens of Acoma Pueblo Indians because said Puebloans killed his nephew when the nephew came and demanded food as tribute.

Española, New Mexico built a statue to Oñate in ~1993. Acoma Pueblo still exists and weren't super amused. After not too long, somebody cut off the left foot of the statue. Of course, they welded a new one on, but when I was learning about state history, I thought it was an extremely appropriate form of protest, even if it was vandalism.

\Pretty new to New Mexico and learning the ropes. For once, seemed like relevant learning!
 
2017-09-12 07:08:52 PM  

edmo: A country that can't admit to genocide of Native Americans can call that a hate crime? Boy are we exceptional.


We admit it. We just don't care. My history class was certainly whitewashed of Columbus's transgressions.
Of course, I had a history teacher that told us Hitler did a lot of good for Germany in the beginning. He just lost his way as time went on. It's Florida, and grew up in a town that's 99% white and overwhelmingly Christian. I was the only Jew at my school. What can you do?
 
2017-09-12 07:10:26 PM  
A "hate crime" against who, exactly?
 
2017-09-12 07:12:58 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: I'd like to rage about the controversy surrounding possessive apostrophe on proper names ending in s because Columbus's looks stupid as all hell to me.

Sit and listen a while.  We'll serve snacks while I bellow.


 I'll bring the gin
 
2017-09-12 07:13:14 PM  

whidbey: A "hate crime" against who, exactly?


The cheerful 1950's fiction of American history and culture?
 
2017-09-12 07:13:53 PM  

whidbey: A "hate crime" against who, exactly?


Marble-Americans
 
2017-09-12 07:17:01 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: I'd like to rage about the controversy surrounding possessive apostrophe on proper names ending in s because Columbus's looks stupid as all hell to me.


What, it should be Columbuss? Columbuses?  Columbopodes?

IMHO, there's clearly an extra syllable when it's pronounced, so it can't be just with the apostrophe, like plural -> plural-possessive which doesn't change phonetically.
 
2017-09-12 07:17:09 PM  

FortyHams: Cyberluddite: FortyHams: I feel like Columbus got a bad rap. He's just a dude who got lost.

I got lost when I was visiting Rome a few years ago, but somehow managed to avoid slaughtering and enslaving thousands of local Italians as a result of my getting lost. So I guess that makes me a much better person than Columbus.

He was in title the governor of Hispaniola until 1500 when he was deposed and arrested for being a shiat governor. He spent most of his time poking around the Caribbean and Central America impressing natives by predicting eclipses and shiat.

What really farked over the natives were the diseases the Europeans brought over which caused a massive depopulation in the first several decades after they arrived. Influenza also killed Columbus.

There is Columbus the dope who couldn't admit that this wasn't Asia and Columbus the symbol of all European colonization and it's consequences.


You're not lost if you believe you're in Asia, Jerry.
 
2017-09-12 07:17:47 PM  

FortyHams: I feel like Columbus got a bad rap. He's just a dude who got lost.


Nah, he didn't get lost. He ended up reasonably clause to where he was supposed to. It is just because of poor unit conversions he was supposed to die in a vast nothingness of the ocean when he got there.
 
2017-09-12 07:18:18 PM  
Nice, guys, way to dilute "hate crime" into uselessness!
 
2017-09-12 07:20:03 PM  

Munden: When those natives get all upity the solution was to hunt them and kill them.  Then you take their bodies, dismember them, and hang them around the camp Joffery GOT style to discourage further unrest.  That's Columbus for you.


But did he ever paint their hands red?  Of course not, he wasn't a monster...
 
2017-09-12 07:21:07 PM  
Meanwhile, perpetrators of actual hate crimes get the protection of the police ...
timedotcom.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-12 07:22:20 PM  
If the Columbus Day parade was ended and these statues torn down there will be riots in Statrn Island and Massapequa. I'm only exaggerating a little, it's ridiculous, Italian-Americans farking worship the guy.
 
2017-09-12 07:22:32 PM  
Fifteenth century Italian community reportedly shaken, worried.

Good, when womenfolk of all stripes are stressed they tend to eat which requires food to be made. It might not be the right thing to do morally but I'm completely in favor of manufactured situations which would cause Italian chicks to get busy with the food making.

Also, they might be in need of some manly reassuring from a bad ass mofo like myself which I'd be more than willing to provide as long as they shave their mustaches first.
 
2017-09-12 07:25:29 PM  

edmo: A country that can't admit to genocide of Native Americans can call that a hate crime? Boy are we exceptional.


God has blessed us greatly.
 
2017-09-12 07:26:58 PM  
NY hate crime statute says the act has to be committed based on a belief or perception regarding the race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation of a person, regardless of whether the belief or perception is correct. Are they contending that the vandalism targeting a specific historical figure named Columbus was based on his race, color, etc? I don't see 'asshole' listed amongst the classes in the statute...?
 
2017-09-12 07:28:32 PM  

Cyberluddite: I got lost when I was visiting Rome a few years ago, but somehow managed to avoid slaughtering and enslaving thousands of local Italians as a result of my getting lost. So I guess that makes me a much better person than Columbus.


Says you.
 
2017-09-12 07:28:56 PM  
Hate crime?  Com on guys, it's not like he's going to care at this point.
 
2017-09-12 07:30:40 PM  

nekom: I still don't get why so many Italian Americans look to him as a role model when YOU HAVE LEONARDO GOD DAMNED DA VINCI, JESUS HE'S AWESOME!  Columbus had a tremendous impact on the world, no doubt about it, good and bad but he was just some schmuck who accidentally the new world.


Hell, no, they'd never accept Da Vinci as the epitome of Italian role models, no matter how brilliant and influential.

He was gay and Italian machismo wouldn't allow it.
 
2017-09-12 07:30:54 PM  
A statue depicting the Italian explorer, who has been credited in this country with "discovering" America even though 1) Native Americans had already lived here for millennia and 2) he never actually landed on U.S. soil

Jesus, I can smell the pretentious outrage from here... I hope this writer is either 100% American Indian, or has no relatives that aren't, because like it or not, Columbus is the reason people found America and settled here. For all intensive porpoises, Columbus "discovered" America for the rest of the world...
 
2017-09-12 07:31:40 PM  

whidbey: A "hate crime" against who, exactly?


In this instance, the objective case.

;)
 
2017-09-12 07:32:13 PM  

whidbey: A "hate crime" against who, exactly?


Statues.  They're nothing but pigeon toilets.  Big brass pigeon toilets.
 
2017-09-12 07:32:15 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: ...
or Bruno Sammartino.


From my brain to your keyboard!
Well done.
 
2017-09-12 07:32:38 PM  

towatchoverme: Meanwhile, perpetrators of actual hate crimes get the protection of the police ...
[timedotcom.files.wordpress.com image 580x580]


I love that photo.

A black police officer being the extension of an American Civil Liberties Union assistance effort to protect the rights of white supremacists to peaceably assemble. That the police officer did it and respected the rights of those who would not show the same courtesy to him is very cool. It isn't pretty sometimes but this country is pretty farking awesome.
 
2017-09-12 07:32:49 PM  

fusillade762: Hey, he might have been a genocidal, racist asshole, but at least he wasn't a loser and a traitor to his country. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.


"...racist.."
DRINK!
 
2017-09-12 07:34:10 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: NY hate crime statute says the act has to be committed based on a belief or perception regarding the race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation of a person, regardless of whether the belief or perception is correct. Are they contending that the vandalism targeting a specific historical figure named Columbus was based on his race, color, etc? I don't see 'asshole' listed amongst the classes in the statute...?


The class is Italians. Sounds ridiculous if you're not used to local NY ethnopolitics or know many Italian-Americans.
 
2017-09-12 07:34:32 PM  
Interestingly enough, Columbus Day seems like it was instituted, at least in part, in response to hate crimes:

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/14/232120128/how-colum​b​us-sailed-into-u-s-history-thanks-to-italians

One decade your the hatee, the next your the hater, I guess?
 
2017-09-12 07:34:54 PM  

vrax: Nice, guys, way to dilute "hate crime" into uselessness!


That's a feature, not a bug.
 
2017-09-12 07:35:07 PM  

WoodyHayes: towatchoverme: Meanwhile, perpetrators of actual hate crimes get the protection of the police ...
[timedotcom.files.wordpress.com image 580x580]

I love that photo.

A black police officer being the extension of an American Civil Liberties Union assistance effort to protect the rights of white supremacists to peaceably assemble. That the police officer did it and respected the rights of those who would not show the same courtesy to him is very cool. It isn't pretty sometimes but this country is pretty farking awesome.


Of course then you consider that it was needed to be done in the first place and that the President defended the Nazis and KKK.
 
2017-09-12 07:36:39 PM  
On the subject of Columbus, there's a copy of Admiral of the Ocean Sea among the books I inherited from my grandfather, is it any good or should I not bother reading it?
 
2017-09-12 07:38:34 PM  
Pssst.   pssst.   Hey you.  Yeah, you, the one who wants to lose the whole Columbus adoration thing. Come here.

You're doing it wrong. Don't talk about how he ushered in the slaughter and enslavement of indigenous culture. Call him a globalist. They won't know how to respond.
 
2017-09-12 07:39:29 PM  

IHadMeAVision: rzrwiresunrise: NY hate crime statute says the act has to be committed based on a belief or perception regarding the race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation of a person, regardless of whether the belief or perception is correct. Are they contending that the vandalism targeting a specific historical figure named Columbus was based on his race, color, etc? I don't see 'asshole' listed amongst the classes in the statute...?

The class is Italians. Sounds ridiculous if you're not used to local NY ethnopolitics or know many Italian-Americans.


What about this attack looks like an attack against Italians in any way?

The vandalism seems pretty clearly targeted against Columbus.

If I attack Netanyahu for being a piece of shiat right wing dirt bag, that isn't anti Semitic.

If I attack Pol Pot for killing millions of his countrymen, that isn't anti-Cambodian.

Yes sometimes people use flimsy excuses to try and say they aren't racist (or whatever specific form of bigotry applies) but unless you can show some reason for that there is no reason to think this is a hate crime.
 
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