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(The Hill)   Snowden: Sure, I broke federal laws, betrayed my government, turned myself into a fugitive, and can only rely on the whims of Vladimir Putin to keep me out of jail, but yeah, it was all worth it   ( thehill.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, National security, contractor Edward Snowden, Classified information, Federal government of the United States, U.S. government surveillance, newspaper Der Spiegel, surveillance practices, Knowledge  
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735 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2017 at 4:37 PM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-12 02:21:26 PM  
If it helps you sleep at night, Benedict, then you go on ahead thinking that.
 
2017-09-12 03:43:16 PM  
Well as long as you have no ragerts.
 
2017-09-12 03:49:01 PM  

Ambivalence: Well as long as you have no ragerts.


What about regerts?
 
2017-09-12 04:17:19 PM  
i gotta say I don't know the real details of what he did, I suspect the details are far to complex for me to ever really know them in depth since it's not a world I'm familiar with.

That said, I do feel like I benefitted from knowing the extent to which the state was surveilling everyone. Sure, we all knew it in that cynical "of course they are" way, but to actually find out...seems like it was a benefit.

/unpopular opinion
 
2017-09-12 04:42:54 PM  
Sure, I broke federal laws, betrayed my government

That's debatable. He unveiled a massive surveillance campaign by the government on it's own people. Can you really betray a betrayer?

and can only rely on the whims of Vladimir Putin to keep me out of jail

Well, when you piss off the united states, they usually make so that only it's enemies can help you....

but yeah, it was all worth it

- Worldwide Fame
- Moral high ground
-  Cited as 'cybersecurity expert' even though you're a rank novice and complete doof

Yeah. Sounds like it was.
 
2017-09-12 04:42:59 PM  
"Betrayed his government" by releasing a bunch of files responsibly to news media so they could cull through the information and report on it with some level of security and discretion.

He was a whistleblower who was far more cautious than even Chelsea Manning.
 
2017-09-12 04:43:08 PM  
Well, now he is somebody, instead of a bum.
 
2017-09-12 04:43:12 PM  

Barfmaker: i gotta say I don't know the real details of what he did, I suspect the details are far to complex for me to ever really know them in depth since it's not a world I'm familiar with.


Get the hell out of here with that well-reasoned nuance!
 
2017-09-12 04:43:54 PM  
thanks again for shuttering my lavabit accout, Snowden. You cock.
 
2017-09-12 04:44:06 PM  
Before the whole Snowden thing, I always thought that beong more angry at the person who revealed government malfeasance than the malfeasance itself was solely the domain of bad movies.
 
2017-09-12 04:47:07 PM  
Here's the thing dude....most people don't give a f*ck about the intrusion.  I can't count how many times I have heard the "Well, I did nothing wrong, so let them monitor me" argument over the years...usually happily spoken by a republican family member...

Seriously, I am just as much to blame though.  I care, but these types of things should really motivate a population to take to a grass roots movement on the streets.  I am not saying that SOME don't, but most of us are too comfortable in our current lives to rock the boat either way.  We sit because we are filled with booze and HFCS.  We take to the internet because most of us can't walk a mile in the street.

I often wonder what it will take when sh*t really starts hitting the fan.  I don't even think a nuke would do it at this point but I am cynical as hell.
 
2017-09-12 04:47:07 PM  
My guess is he was working for Putin from the start...
 
2017-09-12 04:49:48 PM  

RINO: Before the whole Snowden thing, I always thought that beong more angry at the person who revealed government malfeasance than the malfeasance itself was solely the domain of bad movies.


Sounds to me like you think treason is patriotic.
 
2017-09-12 04:50:17 PM  
I half imagine the apartment they have him living in is a huge Rube Goldberg machine, centered around a Polonium-filled egg timer. The only way to turn the timer over is for him to spout some story about how wonderful Vlad is, how oppressive the US is, etc. Otherwise, a whole unlikely chain of events will quickly and suddenly deposit him under the vial just as the last grain of polonium drops to the bottom and the the cap pops off.

/In a way, similar to how Best Korea assassins wear LOL shirts
 
2017-09-12 04:51:54 PM  
Toss him in jail for half a decade and call it even. Then his book deals and interview fees will be in dollars instead of rubles.
 
2017-09-12 04:52:39 PM  

RINO: Before the whole Snowden thing, I always thought that beong more angry at the person who revealed government malfeasance than the malfeasance itself was solely the domain of bad movies.


It's what happens when we have leaders who spend their time flattering the privileged, rather than standing up to them.
 
2017-09-12 04:53:55 PM  

bigfatbuddhist: My guess is he was working for Putin from the start...


Kind of amazing there's been no order to pardon Snowden.
 
2017-09-12 04:54:07 PM  
Where's the hero tag?
 
2017-09-12 04:54:56 PM  
I watched that movie about him.  If even half of it's true (which I think it's Oliver Stone, so half might be a stretch), I am not totally against him exposing what he did.
 
2017-09-12 04:55:54 PM  

mattj1984: Where's the hero tag?


That's reserved for when a Kardashian has a baby
 
2017-09-12 04:58:04 PM  
He gave us information that needed to be public. And he's not a doofus - look at his own ananysis of some of the progams he revealed.

As a sysadmim myself- I have a hard time saying what he did was morally the right thing to do. I don't think I would have done it - it just goes against everything our job is about. Total breach of trust.

As an American? I don't consider him a traitor or a hero.  I just think he did the right thing for all of us.

He's the Kingslayer.
 
2017-09-12 04:58:41 PM  

misanthropicsob: "Betrayed his government" by releasing a bunch of files responsibly to news media so they could cull through the information and report on it with some level of security and discretion.

He was a whistleblower who was far more cautious than even Chelsea Manning.


No, he didn't release it responsibly.

He released information about ongoing overseas operations, ours and our allies.

No matter how much good you think he did do, nothing can excuse that.
 
2017-09-12 04:58:42 PM  

RINO: Before the whole Snowden thing, I always thought that beong more angry at the person who revealed government malfeasance than the malfeasance itself was solely the domain of bad movies.


Yeah.... The US political response to Snowden was... Educational. And not in a good way. I don't know why political institutions seem to believe that screaming about how you're the real reverse vampire supports their unceasing claims of ultimate power. Always makes them look weak, panicky, and gullible, to me.
 
2017-09-12 04:59:14 PM  
We elected Trump. Anyone held under espionage convictions or being sought for similar crimes should just be let go. Forget it. America has spoken.
 
2017-09-12 04:59:19 PM  

mcsiegs: Here's the thing dude....most people don't give a f*ck about the intrusion.  I can't count how many times I have heard the "Well, I did nothing wrong, so let them monitor me" argument over the years...usually happily spoken by a republican family member...

Seriously, I am just as much to blame though.  I care, but these types of things should really motivate a population to take to a grass roots movement on the streets.  I am not saying that SOME don't, but most of us are too comfortable in our current lives to rock the boat either way.  We sit because we are filled with booze and HFCS.  We take to the internet because most of us can't walk a mile in the street.

I often wonder what it will take when sh*t really starts hitting the fan.  I don't even think a nuke would do it at this point but I am cynical as hell.


If the mugging of Iraq, the pictures from Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, torture, the 2008 crash, and Snowden's release don't make America take to the streets I sure as don't know and sure as fark don't want to see what would.
 
2017-09-12 05:01:35 PM  
He's got to say that.

Like when an infertile couple undergoes thousands of dollars in fertility treatments then has a profoundly handicapped child.

/ shift's over at 5
// hate me quickly
/// it's God's will
 
2017-09-12 05:03:14 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


/first thing I thought of when reading that headline
 
2017-09-12 05:03:26 PM  

Epoch_Zero: - Moral high ground


Now that's how you earn a funny, guys.

/Yes, he betrayed a "betrayer", only to work for a guy who does far worse to his own people (and others) as a matter of course.
 
2017-09-12 05:04:56 PM  
Until he put that information in the public domain, only 8 congresspersons had access to the full scope of US surveillance, and knowledge that the FISA court had already ruled some intelligence activities unconstitutional.  Within a year of his disclosures, bi-partisan majorities of the other 527 members of Congress changed the law.

In our system, we rely on co-equal branches to rein in the excesses of the others.  That is impossible when the lawmakers aren't allowed to know how the other branches are implementing and interpreting the laws they've passed.
 
2017-09-12 05:11:20 PM  

RINO: Before the whole Snowden thing, I always thought that beong more angry at the person who revealed government malfeasance than the malfeasance itself was solely the domain of bad movies.


Don't ask about Dual-Ec-Prng.  The NSA pretty much insisted that NIST accept it as a "official random number generator" even though it took too long and spat out obiviously bad (biased) numbers (and used a form of cryptography that screamed "this has a backdoor").  Not so long afterwards Microsoft pointed out exactly how the thing had a backdoor.  The NSA denied it, and that was that (plenty of supposedly secure software went ahead and used it).  Six years later, somewhere in the Snowden drop it mentioned a backdoor being in one of NIST's algorithms.  Suddenly people couldn't trip over themselves fast enough to stop using that algorithm.  I've seen HR manuals that specifically forbid using it.

But until the Snowden drop, the NSA could deny having a backdoor in an algororithm even if you could show exactly how to make the backdoor key with the algorithm they used.  And they still blame Snowden.
 
2017-09-12 05:13:00 PM  

talan123: misanthropicsob: "Betrayed his government" by releasing a bunch of files responsibly to news media so they could cull through the information and report on it with some level of security and discretion.

He was a whistleblower who was far more cautious than even Chelsea Manning.

No, he didn't release it responsibly.

He released information about ongoing overseas operations, ours and our allies.

No matter how much good you think he did do, nothing can excuse that.


He gave that information to whom he believed to be trustworthy members of the Western news media. He didn't put it on wikileaks. He didn't put them on the dark web or an FTP site. He didn't put them out there for all eyes to see. He gave them to a few people and let them figure out what was important and what wasn't. That's reasonably responsible to me. He did good, the information he released was important, and that behavior is excusable.
 
2017-09-12 05:15:37 PM  
Part of the information Snowden revealed was the fact that he had access to all that stuff in the first place.

He wasn't a bona fide NSA employee, he was a contractor; and thanks to him, we now know that everyone whose place of business is the NSA headquarters, government employees and civilian contractors alike, has the ability to cyberstalk every last person who has any device that can connect to the internet or cell towers.

And the only reason he's in Russia is because that's where he happened to be when his passport was revoked. Otherwise he'd be running around the world, not staying in any one place long enough for anyone to know that he's at that particular place.
 
2017-09-12 05:16:18 PM  
I'd rather not know what illegal and/or reprehensible things my government is doing. Just keep me in the dark!
 
2017-09-12 05:17:40 PM  

Wessoman: Epoch_Zero: - Moral high ground

Now that's how you earn a funny, guys.

/Yes, he betrayed a "betrayer", only to work for a guy who does far worse to his own people (and others) as a matter of course.


Assumes facts not in evidence. As I understand it he's stuck in Russia since that's where he happened to be when the US cancelled his passport.

There precisely zero evidence he's 'working' for Putin. Plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike the guy without making shiat up.
 
2017-09-12 05:22:14 PM  
I question his not staying anonymous.
 
2017-09-12 05:26:35 PM  

King Something: Part of the information Snowden revealed was the fact that he had access to all that stuff in the first place.

He wasn't a bona fide NSA employee, he was a contractor; and thanks to him, we now know that everyone whose place of business is the NSA headquarters, government employees and civilian contractors alike, has the ability to cyberstalk every last person who has any device that can connect to the internet or cell towers.

And the only reason he's in Russia is because that's where he happened to be when his passport was revoked. Otherwise he'd be running around the world, not staying in any one place long enough for anyone to know that he's at that particular place.


This. Even if you wanted to make a good faith argument that the government needs to spy on everyone, there is NO excuse for how little oversight there was to the data collected and the systems collecting it. That Snowden even had that access is, in itself, a problem.
 
2017-09-12 05:28:23 PM  

subfactorial: Wessoman: Epoch_Zero: - Moral high ground

Now that's how you earn a funny, guys.

/Yes, he betrayed a "betrayer", only to work for a guy who does far worse to his own people (and others) as a matter of course.

Assumes facts not in evidence. As I understand it he's stuck in Russia since that's where he happened to be when the US cancelled his passport.

There precisely zero evidence he's 'working' for Putin. Plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike the guy without making shiat up.


Offering cover for Putin is the same thing as working for the guy. If you don't think he's Putins asset, you are probably more on the kool aid than the guys Snowden were outing in the NSA in the first place.

Just saying, he is not nearly the hero Chelsea Manning is.
 
2017-09-12 05:32:12 PM  

Aidan: RINO: Before the whole Snowden thing, I always thought that beong more angry at the person who revealed government malfeasance than the malfeasance itself was solely the domain of bad movies.

Yeah.... The US political response to Snowden was... Educational. And not in a good way. I don't know why political institutions seem to believe that screaming about how you're the real reverse vampire supports their unceasing claims of ultimate power. Always makes them look weak, panicky, and gullible, to me.


When the abuses at Abu Ghraib got uncovered, what was the official solution? Banning digital cameras.
 
2017-09-12 05:34:42 PM  

Epoch_Zero: Moral high ground


When you steal classified materials, leak it to propagandists masquerading as journalists, and then by extension to our adversaries, then run to the nearest non-extradition airport, you do not get to claim "moral" anything.
 
2017-09-12 05:36:49 PM  

misanthropicsob: trustworthy members of the Western news media


I'm pretty sure Glenn Greenwald does not count here.
 
2017-09-12 05:37:44 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Epoch_Zero: Moral high ground

When you steal classified materials, leak it to propagandists masquerading as journalists, and then by extension to our adversaries, then run to the nearest non-extradition airport, you do not get to claim "moral" anything.


"Propagandists masquerading as journalists"

Um...Hrm. I may need some examples of which journalists you believe to not be a propagandist.
 
2017-09-12 05:38:49 PM  

mattj1984: Where's the hero tag?


hanging out with all of the other federal employees who aren't stealing classified data and running off to foreign countries.
 
2017-09-12 05:39:27 PM  

misanthropicsob: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Epoch_Zero: Moral high ground

When you steal classified materials, leak it to propagandists masquerading as journalists, and then by extension to our adversaries, then run to the nearest non-extradition airport, you do not get to claim "moral" anything.

"Propagandists masquerading as journalists"

Um...Hrm. I may need some examples of which journalists you believe to not be a propagandist.


Greenwald.

And since it eventually made it into his circle too, I'll throw Assange in there.
 
2017-09-12 05:39:30 PM  
He revealed criminal behavior on the part of the government. If you think that's bad, fark you.
 
2017-09-12 05:40:20 PM  

misanthropicsob: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Epoch_Zero: Moral high ground

When you steal classified materials, leak it to propagandists masquerading as journalists, and then by extension to our adversaries, then run to the nearest non-extradition airport, you do not get to claim "moral" anything.

"Propagandists masquerading as journalists"

Um...Hrm. I may need some examples of which journalists you believe to not be a propagandist.


and before you say it, I'll cop to using "propagandist" in a incorrect context.  It was the first word that came to mind, but isn't the technically proper one to use.
 
2017-09-12 05:44:05 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: misanthropicsob: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Epoch_Zero: Moral high ground

When you steal classified materials, leak it to propagandists masquerading as journalists, and then by extension to our adversaries, then run to the nearest non-extradition airport, you do not get to claim "moral" anything.

"Propagandists masquerading as journalists"

Um...Hrm. I may need some examples of which journalists you believe to not be a propagandist.

Greenwald.

And since it eventually made it into his circle too, I'll throw Assange in there.


I said I wanted some examples of journalists you believed weren't propagandists.
 
2017-09-12 05:45:03 PM  
Between Snowden and Manning the public got a look at a lot of shiatty things the US government does in the name of protecting it's interests. The problem with that is that it focuses all attention on the negatives and none on the positives. That led people to this misconception that the government is filled with dirty rotten cheaters, so why not elect the most filthy scumbag in the world as POTUS. That's right, I'm blaming the Trump presidency squarely on Snowden and Manning.

/harrumph
 
2017-09-12 05:52:26 PM  
Maybe Trump can pardon him so he can come home to a hero's welcome.

I mean, that's what the pardon is for, right? Like an immunity idol?
 
2017-09-12 05:57:33 PM  

misanthropicsob: Grand_Moff_Joseph: misanthropicsob: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Epoch_Zero: Moral high ground

When you steal classified materials, leak it to propagandists masquerading as journalists, and then by extension to our adversaries, then run to the nearest non-extradition airport, you do not get to claim "moral" anything.

"Propagandists masquerading as journalists"

Um...Hrm. I may need some examples of which journalists you believe to not be a propagandist.

Greenwald.

And since it eventually made it into his circle too, I'll throw Assange in there.

I said I wanted some examples of journalists you believed weren't propagandists.


Ah.  Well, that'll teach me not to read sentences fully.  My apologies.

Okay, some journalists who are not propagandists, imo:
Dave Fahrenthold
Lester Holt
Scott Pelley
Dan Rather
Katy Tur
Sarah Kendzior
Andrea Mitchell
Anderson Cooper

/imo, the above folks report out what happened, what it could mean in multiple contexts, and aren't afraid to criticize and/or ask tough questions of anyone from any political party.  that makes them not propagandists to me.  ymmv
 
2017-09-12 06:01:29 PM  
For those that keep harping on the theft and dissemination of the data, what exactly would you have preferred him to do? How should obviously illegal and unconstitutional programs have been reigned in without making them generally known? Bear in mind that there are at least two people who tried to blow the whistle ahead of him using government-approved methods. Both had their careers trashed and one ended up in prison.
 
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