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(WTAE)   Kid learns hard lesson. Never do the right thing. Just shut up, keep your head down, say nothing   ( wtae.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Ross Sr., Murder, High school, Brownsville Area School District, Thomas Ross Jr., Homicide, pocket knife, Thomas Ross Sr.  
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15896 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2017 at 1:42 AM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-11 11:50:35 PM  
Hartbauer said that district policy mandates an automatic three-day suspension when a student brings a weapon onto the school campus.

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2017-09-12 12:31:42 AM  
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2017-09-12 12:55:08 AM  
"Hartbauer said that district policy mandates an automatic three-day suspension"

Oh, well, the policy mandates it, there's nothing that can be done then.

Just once I'd like to be told something like this so that I can say "And?" I imagine it would be followed by awkward silence and then "B-but the policy!"

/he did learn a valuable lesson much earlier than most though
 
2017-09-12 01:26:29 AM  

fusillade762: Hartbauer said that district policy mandates an automatic three-day suspension when a student brings a weapon onto the school campus.

[img.fark.net image 640x480]


...but that's exactly what we wanted them to do. We're the ones that told them that they weren't allowed to use their own discretion, lest their decision be construed, rightfully or otherwise, as discriminatory in any way whatsoever. The liability risk was too high, we said. The possibility of mistreatment or abuse was too high, we said.

We're the ones that insisted on zero tolerance implementations when it came to things like weapons, drugs, and alcohol in schools. We're the ones that sue school districts, bumping their costs up by an order of magnitude, even as we refuse to support taxes and levies for paying for those costs. We told them to keep costs down, kids safe, and things moving.

Yes, it's dumb on the edge cases. No, I'd rather not change it - the alternative is a dizzying array of litigation and discrimination, which is what we had before zero tolerance implementations.
 
2017-09-12 01:39:37 AM  
Fortunately in the real world we're smart enough to know if you screw up and bring a knife to an airport you just hide it among your cell phone and laptop chargers, and all the loose change you dumped into your carry on.  The TSA won't notice, especially if you distract them with a giant dildo in your other bag.

In the real adult world at most just get you your knife taken away.*

/assuming you're white
 
2017-09-12 01:44:08 AM  
No good deed goes unpunished.
 
2017-09-12 01:49:31 AM  
He went to the main office of a school and declared he had a weapon? Surprised he wasn't arrested for terroristic threats.
 
2017-09-12 01:54:04 AM  
At least his father supports him and knows the policy is messed up. Can you imagine how much more tough it would be for the kid if his own family had hung him out to dry and not given him any support in this as well?
 
2017-09-12 01:56:05 AM  
The lesson here is put your kids in private schools where the staff have discretion and common sense.
 
2017-09-12 01:56:27 AM  

FormlessOne: ...but that's exactly what we wanted them to do. We're the ones that told them that they weren't allowed to use their own discretion, lest their decision be construed, rightfully or otherwise, as discriminatory in any way whatsoever. The liability risk was too high, we said. The possibility of mistreatment or abuse was too high, we said.


True. But we started saying that because the white kid who brought a knife to school got nothing, and the black kid got suspended for a month. Consistent punishment for all is not perfect, but better than outright bigotry.
 
2017-09-12 01:56:43 AM  
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RIP Radio Raheem.
 
2017-09-12 01:59:31 AM  
Sounds like this young man needs a special 3-day event w dad where the real importance of working smart > hard.

/I think this kid will be fine.
 
2017-09-12 02:06:06 AM  
This is my shocked face.

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2017-09-12 02:06:16 AM  
Way back in the 90's when I was in high school, I was also in Boy Scouts. One Monday after a weekend of camping I got to school, went to my locker, and took off my jacket. Only then did I realize that I still had a knife in my pocket that I'd been carrying around while engaged in Scouting activities.

I thought about going to the office and trying to explain it...for less than half a second. Instead I left the knife in my coat, left the coat in my locker, and smuggled the knife back out at the end of the day.

Because f*ck that noise. This wasn't that long after Columbine and I sure as hell wasn't about to get tased or shot by a "resource officer", or suspended, for a truly innocent mistake.
 
2017-09-12 02:07:21 AM  
"The safety and well-being of our students and staff is paramount," Superintendent Keith Hartbauer said. "We will follow our district's policy, procedures, and solicitor's recommendation regarding this discipline incident."
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2017-09-12 02:07:42 AM  
Nothing says utter stupidity quite like our public school.administrators. I'm so glad I don't have kids mainly so I don't have to deal with these morons
 
2017-09-12 02:08:28 AM  

Giant Clown Shoe: Sounds like this young man needs a special 3-day event w dad where the real importance of working smart > hard.

/I think this kid will be fine.


Agreed.  And it's never too soon for him to learn to have a healthy skepticism toward authority and groupthink
 
2017-09-12 02:08:35 AM  
"I was scared that if I were to get it caught with it on me, it would have been worse than me turning it in," Ross Jr. said.

Now you know better, kid.
 
2017-09-12 02:13:01 AM  

davidphogan: Fortunately in the real world we're smart enough to know if you screw up and bring a knife to an airport you just hide it among your cell phone and laptop chargers, and all the loose change you dumped into your carry on.  The TSA won't notice, especially if you distract them with a giant dildo in your other bag.

In the real adult world at most just get you your knife taken away.*

/assuming you're white


Another fun knife story:

When I was a little kid, maybe 4, my mother, brother and I all went to the airport to greet my father, back from a business trip. We waited just outside the security area.

Bored, I poked around in a nearby potted plant, whereupon I found a genuine switchblade. I even figured out how to open it before my mother noticed and immediately freaked out. It was understandable. There stood her adorable little four-year-old kid holding an open switchblade mere feet from the airport security checkpoint.

But she kept her cool, took the knife, and managed to get the attention of a guard to take it into evidence without causing a huge security incident.

Good thing it wasn't post-9/11 or my father would have arrived to find us all shot.
 
2017-09-12 02:15:36 AM  
On one hand, the policy is utterly stupid.  Zero tolerance = zero brains.

On the other hand, the kid is also stupid.  Keep the knife hidden, go home at the end of the day like normal.  There were certainly a non-zero number of days I left a knife in a pocket at school.  The number of days I turned myself in for it was definitely zero.  Never lost a knife either.
 
2017-09-12 02:16:02 AM  

fusillade762: Hartbauer said that district policy mandates an automatic three-day suspension when a student brings a weapon onto the school campus.

[img.fark.net image 640x480]


Actually as a public servant you can't if you're doing your job properly. You are just the messenger from the public. The public has an ordinance in place for these infractions, and it was followed. Nothing to see here. Just because you admit something doesn't mean you are free and clear. He recieved 3 days instead of 10, that's the compromise here.
 
2017-09-12 02:17:07 AM  

cmb53208: Nothing says utter stupidity quite like our public school.administrators. I'm so glad I don't have kids mainly so I don't have to deal with these morons


Public school up through HS is a f*cking cesspit.

I remember getting to college and being allowed to carry around my prescription without having to go the f*cking nurse's office to take it.

Because "OMFG, teh aspirin that might be the marijuana cigarette! Beware jazz music!" or whatever the f*cking logic is in HS.
 
2017-09-12 02:19:09 AM  
I wonder what would have happened if he told them he found it in the school instead of saying he brought it.
 
2017-09-12 02:20:07 AM  
I hope the kid sits at home eating ice cream and pizza.

But really, is being kept out of school for three days the end of the world?

And if he ever goes up for something where they check his background THAT friggen carefully, and they ask him "What happened with a knife when you were in 8th grade?" the fact that he made an honest mistake and owned up to it is a positive mark of character. But hey, the girders fall on the just and the unjust.
 
2017-09-12 02:20:52 AM  
Many school districts no longer suspend kids. They finally figured out that giving the kids a few days off didn't really work. Go figure.

Kid should enjoy his three days off. He might not be eligible to get them next year.
 
2017-09-12 02:21:21 AM  
Nice.  We haven't had a good "zero-tolerance policy" thread in a while.
 
2017-09-12 02:21:22 AM  

Sid_6.7: davidphogan: Fortunately in the real world we're smart enough to know if you screw up and bring a knife to an airport you just hide it among your cell phone and laptop chargers, and all the loose change you dumped into your carry on.  The TSA won't notice, especially if you distract them with a giant dildo in your other bag.

In the real adult world at most just get you your knife taken away.*

/assuming you're white

Another fun knife story:

When I was a little kid, maybe 4, my mother, brother and I all went to the airport to greet my father, back from a business trip. We waited just outside the security area.

Bored, I poked around in a nearby potted plant, whereupon I found a genuine switchblade. I even figured out how to open it before my mother noticed and immediately freaked out. It was understandable. There stood her adorable little four-year-old kid holding an open switchblade mere feet from the airport security checkpoint.

But she kept her cool, took the knife, and managed to get the attention of a guard to take it into evidence without causing a huge security incident.

Good thing it wasn't post-9/11 or my father would have arrived to find us all shot.


She screwed up.

Quietly pocket the knife, stick it in a drawer at home, give it to the kid who found it when he's old enough.  The security guy has enough knives, he doesn't need another one.
 
2017-09-12 02:21:52 AM  

jjorsett: The lesson here is put your kids in private schools where the staff have discretion and common sense.


I...no. No. That is not the lesson here.
 
2017-09-12 02:22:40 AM  
It's easy to do unfortunately.  I feel bad for the kid here.
 
2017-09-12 02:22:54 AM  

jjorsett: The lesson here is put your kids in private schools where the staff have discretion and common sense.


Who the fark would smart this?  Private school is gosh darn expensive if you want your kids in something of equal or better value than public education.

This statement is plain ass stupid.  Fark needs a stupid button.
 
2017-09-12 02:22:56 AM  

mikechoiselat: fusillade762: Hartbauer said that district policy mandates an automatic three-day suspension when a student brings a weapon onto the school campus.

[img.fark.net image 640x480]

Actually as a public servant you can't if you're doing your job properly. You are just the messenger from the public. The public has an ordinance in place for these infractions, and it was followed. Nothing to see here. Just because you admit something doesn't mean you are free and clear. He recieved 3 days instead of 10, that's the compromise here.


The administrator should have taken the knife, informed the kid to never speak of it again, and then given the knife to a parent, informing them that, again, this didn't happen.

Those rules exist for a reason. This is not that reason. Understanding the difference is the soul of wisdom.

As described it's a pocket knife. A pocket knife is not a weapon, it's a tool. If anything trying to harm someone with a pocket knife is as likely to harm the wielder as the target.
 
2017-09-12 02:23:17 AM  
Sorry, but a pocket knife is not a weapon. It's a tool. A switchblade is a weapon. These people are morons.
 
2017-09-12 02:24:26 AM  
Sigh, I'm an older farker, and back in the day having a pocket knife at school would not have raised an eyebrow.
If we had a beef with another group of guys, we'd pull out our blades and have a good old fashion musical dance number.

I miss my girlfriend, Maria.
 
2017-09-12 02:24:38 AM  

Sid_6.7: Way back in the 90's when I was in high school, I was also in Boy Scouts. One Monday after a weekend of camping I got to school, went to my locker, and took off my jacket. Only then did I realize that I still had a knife in my pocket that I'd been carrying around while engaged in Scouting activities.


I regularly carried a Swiss Army knife since elementary school. In high school I also had a "Rambo" knife like this. Never cut anybody, and never got into any trouble for the knives. The pyrotechnics on the other hand... (this was back when you could still buy potassium nitrate from any pharmacy).
 
2017-09-12 02:24:49 AM  
I was about to jump on the anti-administrator bandwagon, but then I thought about it more.

If you accidentally run a red light, then go find the nearest traffic cop to show him the dashcam footage of you running the red light, what do you expect him to do?

The kid broke a rule.  He turned himself in.  Turning yourself in is not a way to avoid punishment.  Had he turned himself in for arriving late, he would still be tardy.  Had he turned himself in for cheating, he would still be punished.

Doing the right thing does not absolve you of your guilt.
 
2017-09-12 02:25:18 AM  

Sid_6.7: cmb53208: Nothing says utter stupidity quite like our public school.administrators. I'm so glad I don't have kids mainly so I don't have to deal with these morons

Public school up through HS is a f*cking cesspit.

I remember getting to college and being allowed to carry around my prescription without having to go the f*cking nurse's office to take it.

Because "OMFG, teh aspirin that might be the marijuana cigarette! Beware jazz music!" or whatever the f*cking logic is in HS.


I would agree, I learned more from farking game shows and George Carlin routines than I did from those years of schooling.
 
2017-09-12 02:25:24 AM  

sunderland56: FormlessOne: ...but that's exactly what we wanted them to do. We're the ones that told them that they weren't allowed to use their own discretion, lest their decision be construed, rightfully or otherwise, as discriminatory in any way whatsoever. The liability risk was too high, we said. The possibility of mistreatment or abuse was too high, we said.

True. But we started saying that because the white kid who brought a knife to school got nothing, and the black kid got suspended for a month. Consistent punishment for all is not perfect, but better than outright bigotry.


If you really believe this you are a colossal idiot
 
2017-09-12 02:28:18 AM  
I can't be outraged. There's a rule against bringing a weapon to the school, he brought one= punishment.

As far as being able to use discretion, that's not a better approach. Everyone will expect to be given the same consideration, so in effect you can't punish anyone otherwise parents will claim discrimination. "Why did you punish MY son and not that other kid?" that sort of thing. Also, if you cut a kid slack for bringing a knife, and one day that kid or another kid bring a knife to school and cut someone, you will be held responsible because you didn't enforce the rules. So that's why they have the rules and that's why you get zero tolerance.
 
2017-09-12 02:28:30 AM  

mikechoiselat: The public has an ordinance in place for these infractions, and it was followed.


If the hands of public servants are tied so tightly by the rule of law, why are there so many who commit criminal acts and get a promotion for their efforts?
 
2017-09-12 02:31:44 AM  

TOSViolation: Doing the right thing does not absolve you of your guilt.


Good point. So next time some idiot on their phone runs in front of my car and kills himself, I'll just tell the insurance company I hit a "deer".
 
2017-09-12 02:31:45 AM  

pxlboy: No good deed goes unpunished.


Words to live by
 
2017-09-12 02:32:28 AM  
That kid would have been the first one shot when he tried to protect his classmates from a crazed gunman.

Without a knife in his pocket, he won't be tempted to play hero on the day that happens.
 
2017-09-12 02:33:39 AM  
It's true.  Even at 45 I still have to deal with the consequences of doing the right thing.  Makes one wonder if it really is the right thing.
 
2017-09-12 02:33:45 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Sid_6.7: Way back in the 90's when I was in high school, I was also in Boy Scouts. One Monday after a weekend of camping I got to school, went to my locker, and took off my jacket. Only then did I realize that I still had a knife in my pocket that I'd been carrying around while engaged in Scouting activities.

I regularly carried a Swiss Army knife since elementary school. In high school I also had a "Rambo" knife like this. Never cut anybody, and never got into any trouble for the knives. The pyrotechnics on the other hand... (this was back when you could still buy potassium nitrate from any pharmacy).


Those Rambo knives were the coolest thing ever to a kid at that time.  I bugged my mom for months to get me one before she finally caved
 
2017-09-12 02:33:45 AM  

cmb53208: Sid_6.7: cmb53208: Nothing says utter stupidity quite like our public school.administrators. I'm so glad I don't have kids mainly so I don't have to deal with these morons

Public school up through HS is a f*cking cesspit.

I remember getting to college and being allowed to carry around my prescription without having to go the f*cking nurse's office to take it.

Because "OMFG, teh aspirin that might be the marijuana cigarette! Beware jazz music!" or whatever the f*cking logic is in HS.

I would agree, I learned more from farking game shows and George Carlin routines than I did from those years of schooling.


I was always bored to tears in school. I played a game called "don't study for the test."

I remember in my US AP History class pointing out to the teacher that a decent number of the questions on an exam could be answered by referencing other questions. He quietly informed me that I was the second kid in 20+ years of teaching who had informed him of this, that the other kids weren't smart enough to do that, and that I was too smart for my own good. Which is still probably true.
 
2017-09-12 02:36:53 AM  

the ha ha guy: TOSViolation: Doing the right thing does not absolve you of your guilt.

Good point. So next time some idiot on their phone runs in front of my car and kills himself, I'll just tell the insurance company I hit a "deer".


Bad analogy.
 
2017-09-12 02:38:05 AM  

maxandgrinch: That kid would have been the first one shot when he tried to protect his classmates from a crazed gunman.

Without a knife in his pocket, he won't be tempted to play hero on the day that happens.


If you're going to have a fantasy scenario on Fark; the kid happens to have a knife in his pocket that he accidentally brought to school, and he successfully defends his classmates from a crazed gunman. After that, he's absolutely swimmming in pussy the rest of his life.
 
2017-09-12 02:39:14 AM  

Birnone: I can't be outraged. There's a rule against bringing a weapon to the school, he brought one= punishment.

As far as being able to use discretion, that's not a better approach. Everyone will expect to be given the same consideration, so in effect you can't punish anyone otherwise parents will claim discrimination. "Why did you punish MY son and not that other kid?" that sort of thing. Also, if you cut a kid slack for bringing a knife, and one day that kid or another kid bring a knife to school and cut someone, you will be held responsible because you didn't enforce the rules. So that's why they have the rules and that's why you get zero tolerance.


So the rules must be awesome because them's the rules?

Grow up.

If this was high school and the kid was a football star we wouldn't be reading about this, because he wouldn't have gotten in trouble. Schools have at least two sets of rules: one for "them" and one for the precious children.
 
2017-09-12 02:40:29 AM  

Naido: Those Rambo knives were the coolest thing ever to a kid at that time. I bugged my mom for months to get me one before she finally caved


I bought mine from a classmate. My mother was somewhat surprised when she discovered that I had it, but she got over it.
 
2017-09-12 02:40:32 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: If you're going to have a fantasy scenario on Fark; the kid happens to have a knife in his pocket that he accidentally brought to school, and he successfully defends his classmates from a crazed gunman. After that, he's absolutely swimmming in pussy the rest of his life.

shot by the police for having a weapon in school.
 
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