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(USA Today)   White evangelical Christians' support of Donald Trump isn't hypocrisy (well, it isn't ENTIRELY hypocrisy). It's them working through the Kubler-Ross stages of grief, and now they're bargaining   ( usatoday.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Christian right, Protestantism, white evangelicals, white evangelical Protestants, Evangelicalism, Conservative Christianity, white evangelical/Trump alliance, religiously unaffiliated Americans  
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1555 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Sep 2017 at 11:50 AM (45 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-07 09:16:08 AM  
One of the biggest mysteries of Donald Trump's presidency has been white evangelicals' steadfast and enthusiastic support for him.

This is a "mystery"?  They're a large group of insecure people who need to be better than you and always have someone to hate.  Once right-wing media started using a televangelist model they told them who to hate, who was on their side and how they are always correct.  They're going to vote "R" no matter what.  If some group of scientists found undeniable proof of Satan existing on Earth and Satan ran as a Republican, they would vote for him in droves while condemning the scientists as having some kind of agenda.
 
2017-09-07 09:33:03 AM  
If nothing else, the traditional conservative "morals test" of religious candidates is gone for good.
 
2017-09-07 09:34:23 AM  

edmo: If nothing else, the traditional conservative "morals test" of religious candidates is gone for good.


Forgot the pic

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-07 09:43:42 AM  

edmo: If nothing else, the traditional conservative "morals test" of religious candidates is gone for good.


Well, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, and transphobia are types of morals.
 
2017-09-07 09:53:43 AM  
Bullshiat, they're trying to ram an agenda and they see, in Trump, a useful tool.  And they're only half right, and they're just now starting to realize it.  He's a tool, but he's not useful (and not theirs, no matter how many times he carries a bible with him).
 
2017-09-07 10:13:09 AM  

UberDave: One of the biggest mysteries of Donald Trump's presidency has been white evangelicals' steadfast and enthusiastic support for him.

This is a "mystery"?  They're a large group of insecure people who need to be better than you and always have someone to hate.


As a former resident of the South, there's no better indicator some worthless yokel with a rap sheet and a 7th grade education wants to start with you, is a sneered, "Y'all think yer better 'n me?!"
 
2017-09-07 10:23:07 AM  
Paula White fleeces the suckers for millions, then spends it wrecking her face with plastic "surgery". Maybe she's going for the Ivanka look.
 
2017-09-07 10:38:04 AM  

Ambivalence: Bullshiat, they're trying to ram an agenda and they see, in Trump, a useful tool.  And they're only half right, and they're just now starting to realize it.  He's a tool, but he's not useful (and not theirs, no matter how many times he carries a bible with him).


That's kind of the point. TFA claims evangelicals are in the bargaining phase. Basically they are clear-eyed that they are working with the embodiment of Mammon, they see it as a last ditch effort to salvage their dying world view.
 
2017-09-07 11:24:58 AM  
It's not a mystery it's authoritarianism and racism
 
2017-09-07 11:29:04 AM  
No, that's an explanation of why they're hypocrites
 
2017-09-07 11:48:34 AM  
They're not hypocrites.  A hypocrite extols virtues that they don't follow themselves.  These people don't even bother extolling the virtues any more.

They're just unapologetic assholes.
 
2017-09-07 11:51:05 AM  
Subby's going to be surprised when he finds out what the final stage of grief is.
 
2017-09-07 11:53:37 AM  

gilgigamesh: Ambivalence: Bullshiat, they're trying to ram an agenda and they see, in Trump, a useful tool.  And they're only half right, and they're just now starting to realize it.  He's a tool, but he's not useful (and not theirs, no matter how many times he carries a bible with him).

That's kind of the point. TFA claims evangelicals are in the bargaining phase. Basically they are clear-eyed that they are working with the embodiment of Mammon, they see it as a last ditch effort to salvage their dying world view.


Can't they leave him now then?  They got their Supreme Court Justice.
 
2017-09-07 11:54:33 AM  
They're authoritarian, judgmental, and stupid.  Trump is all of those things.
 
2017-09-07 11:55:03 AM  

edmo: edmo: If nothing else, the traditional conservative "morals test" of religious candidates is gone for good.

Forgot the pic

[img.fark.net image 500x251]


I am laughing to much, at that stupid picture
 
2017-09-07 11:56:37 AM  
Anti-abortion SC justices.  That was their thirty pieces of silver.

There's absolutely no mystery.
 
2017-09-07 12:00:19 PM  
Evangelicals support Trump because each month he uses an executive order to piss off Liberals. The evangelicals love it!

It's no way to run a government, and once the mass deportations start and the White Supremacists take to the streets to celebrate, they might start having a few stray thoughts that maybe Jesus wouldn't approve, but hey screw the Liberals!
 
2017-09-07 12:00:36 PM  

Ambivalence: Bullshiat, they're trying to ram an agenda and they see, in Trump, a useful tool.  And they're only half right, and they're just now starting to realize it.  He's a tool, but he's not useful (and not theirs, no matter how many times he carries a bible with him).


I'd argue it's not so much "ram an agenda" as it is "stack the courts".
 
2017-09-07 12:02:23 PM  
White evangelical Christianity is white supremacism with an atom-thick veneer of religious rhetoric. Donald Trump is a white supremacist, therefore gets the full-throated support of white evangelical Christianity.
 
2017-09-07 12:05:22 PM  
It's funny when people try to make logical sense of these things.
 
2017-09-07 12:05:44 PM  
All you need to know about Christianity was learned on 11/9.
 
2017-09-07 12:06:12 PM  
For the post Kubler-Rossarians, there is the simple force that has the aggrieved looking to recover the loss by revisiting old familiar places. For most it would be remembering the EPA, DOJ, MLK, JFK -- institutions that were about building a better world.

Evangelicals are not really into bargaining. They aren't into changes -- science represents change, daughters growing up as independent women represents change, evolution represents change.

They are into whining. Expect more of that. BTW, your blog sucks..
 
2017-09-07 12:06:31 PM  
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2017-09-07 12:06:35 PM  
The number of Evangelicals that still give credence to Eugenics is higher than you'd want to believe.
 
2017-09-07 12:08:24 PM  
Evangelicals are just part of a religion of hate.  Collectively, they are the anti-Christ.
Why would their support of Trump be a mystery to anyone?
 
2017-09-07 12:09:34 PM  
Because politics and religion are irrevocably intertwined amongst the True BelieversTM, and it's now more important to harangue, lambast, and demonize anyone who doesn't follow your line of thinking in lockstep fashion.

And this, to me, if the most confounding attribute of the most hard-line right-wingers. It's like, from a political standpoint, I disagree wholeheartedly with most of your positions. But, from a "we're all in this together as Americans" standpoint, I don't want to see you suffer or be stripped of your rights or get kicked out of your own country, or any of that other bullsh*t so many of the furthest right so gleefully support for people on "the other side."

I might be a liberal, but the very existence of conservative ideas, principles, and supporters doesn't send me flying into a fit of apoplectic rage.

Admittedly, since November, I have been inching closer, however.
 
2017-09-07 12:12:28 PM  
I don't see any hypocrisy in followers of the Prosperity Gospel supporting Trump. He is their religion incarnate.

They just shouldn't call themselves "Christisns".
 
2017-09-07 12:14:41 PM  

usernameguy: White evangelical Christianity is white supremacism with an atom-thick veneer of religious rhetoric. Donald Trump is a white supremacist, therefore gets the deep-throated support of white evangelical Christianity.


Fixed it for reality.
 
2017-09-07 12:14:52 PM  
I've known quite a few 'evangelicals,' and every last one of them was morally bankrupt long before Donald Trump became president.
 
2017-09-07 12:15:33 PM  
If religious people were reasonable, there wouldn't be religious people.  Ascribing reason to them is a fool's errand.

They're angry, they're afraid, and they're lashing out, because all the news that they listen to and all the pastors that preach at them tell them they should be angry and afraid.  They don't need reasons.  They just do what they're told, and a handful of people with no concern for the country make millions off of their hate and fear.
 
2017-09-07 12:15:42 PM  
I am enjoying watching their panicked decline. I already have my dress picked out for their funeral.
 
2017-09-07 12:15:45 PM  
I admit, even after growing up in a crazy, cult-like fundamentalist community, and being part of a Pentecostal cult in college, I was pretty surprised at how readily the evangelicals threw in with Trump. I fully expected a lot of Christians to be onboard with dickish economic policies, but I figured that Donald's sexual peccadillos and almost complete unfamiliarity with Christianity would be a bridge too far. However, I've had a lot of time to think about it since last year, and I think I've been able to reconcile it, for the following three reasons:

1. Tribalism has been a part of Christianity almost since the beginning. There's evidence of sectarianism in the earliest books of the New Testament (Paul's epistles,) and the early Church canonized, as part of the Bible, an entire book about how Christians were ultimately going to be proven right and detailed the myriad ways in which everyone who gave them grief was going to pay. It's difficult to overstate how much people are willing to overlook if you help "us" to defeat and humiliate "them."

2. A huge amount of effort in Evangelical Christianity is spent on making post-hoc justifications for what you already believe - how else can you explain the continued existence of Young Earth Creationism and KJV-onlyism? (Or Pentecostalism, if I may get a personal dig in there.) When you're adept at explaining why pretty much all science and linguistic analysis of of the Bible for the last 150 years are lies from Satan, how hard is it to excuse Trump, given that he's given an amazing victory to God's own Republicans and stuck it to the satanic Libs?

3. Abortion. Abortion. Abortion. It's not an issue that gets as much play in the wider media, but most evangelicals, (especially older ones,) still view banning abortion as the ultimate political goal of American Christians. When you've got an ultimate evil, everything else pales in comparison. Shady business practices? Yeah, but he's trying to save millions of babies. Sexual...indiscretions? God forgives, but at least he's not sacrificing Children to Moloch. Collusion with Russia? Well, we allied with Russia before to stop Hitler; who's to say we shouldn't take their help again, given that Abortion is a holocaust on a scale that Hitler could have only dreamed of?

When your moral calculus has an Ultimate Evil like abortion, anything that opposes it is good. Trump has already appointed one justice to the court who is not particularly abortion friendly, and he could appoint 2-3 more if he sticks around. Fighting Satanic Baby-killers covers a multitude of sins.

/ There's also a lot of  old-fashioned racism in there, too
 
2017-09-07 12:17:03 PM  
They're pissed because want to get intimate with Jesus but Jesus just wants to be friends.
 
2017-09-07 12:17:46 PM  
 After decades of equating growth with divine approval,

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2017-09-07 12:17:47 PM  

LL316: gilgigamesh: Ambivalence: Bullshiat, they're trying to ram an agenda and they see, in Trump, a useful tool.  And they're only half right, and they're just now starting to realize it.  He's a tool, but he's not useful (and not theirs, no matter how many times he carries a bible with him).

That's kind of the point. TFA claims evangelicals are in the bargaining phase. Basically they are clear-eyed that they are working with the embodiment of Mammon, they see it as a last ditch effort to salvage their dying world view.

Can't they leave him now then?  They got their Supreme Court Justice.


They still want one more.  The greedy farks.
 
2017-09-07 12:19:35 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
d23 [BareFark]
2017-09-07 12:20:12 PM  
This guy looks exactly like Trump.

awesomelyluvvie.comView Full Size


At least on the inside he does.  The bankers can't tell them apart, either.
 
2017-09-07 12:20:23 PM  
Should really be titled "How evangelicals rationalize selling out their principals."
 
2017-09-07 12:24:42 PM  
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most American Christians just fine and dandy with slavery, too?
 
2017-09-07 12:26:58 PM  

Karac: Subby's going to be surprised when he finds out what the final stage of grief is.


Fear?

A fanatical devotion to the Pope?
 
2017-09-07 12:27:16 PM  
The alliance between Christianity and Republicans has done more to strip Christians of credibility than anything Satan could have done.  They attend services every day via Fox and radio, while only going to church once or twice a week, max.  Being a Republican is more integral to their self-image than following Christ ever was, Trump just makes that obvious for any moron.  As a rationalist, I say we keep giving them rope
 
2017-09-07 12:28:03 PM  
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2017-09-07 12:30:00 PM  
Popcorn. This thread needs it. Replace the above comments with 'black' or 'Muslim' and there would be a shiatstorm of 'you can't stereotype like that.'

Not all evangelicals are property gospel mammonites. There are actually some anti-trumpers that try to get heard  but that does not make a media sensation not fit the narrative. and there are better things to do with one's time... like actively serving.
 
2017-09-07 12:31:07 PM  
So many flawed opinions. Really people, it's simple.

Religion is one hell of a drug.

That's it. People often get addicted to it young. Parents are often complicit in getting their children addicted. It warps the brain in formative years. People keep assigning powerful external forces as the reasons things happen. They get an ultimate cause, both ultimate good and ultimate bad. They are given a framework to pretend that somehow there will be a reckoning and justice. It's intoxicating. It's also a rather lazy way to experience the world but it's safe. Some escape it because they experience it's abuse up close while growing up. They learn to distrust certain ways of thinking. They might even learn to think for themselves.

But the people on this drug, they can't be expected to act logically in a way that those not taking the drug will understand. The ones on the drug have "logical" escape clauses everywhere. These interrupt chains of thought with prefabricated conclusions, ready villains, ready authorities. They are prime targets for manipulation. And they come with a cast of manipulators who know they have to keep the con alive.

That explains your evangelical Trump voter. It's wrapped up with a bow. And trying to make sense out of it other ways just won't work because you've missed the fundamentals and are working from a suite of flawed assumptions.
 
2017-09-07 12:33:21 PM  
Martian_Astronomer:

3. Abortion. Abortion. Abortion.  ...

I see your point - but I see that as one issue among many.

Let's say they get 1-2 more SCOTUS positions, and successfully overturn Roe v. Wade...   It's not as if they'll claim "victory is ours" and walk away.   No - it'll be on to the NEXT target - and I think we all know who that will be...

... and as you point out - once the enemy has been identified, all SORTS of actions will be justified if they support the goal of eradicating the enemy.

First the non-heterosexuals, then the atheists (with possibly some overlap in time) with mass incarceration (in for-profit prisons) with the forced labor, but as that becomes too costly - I'm sure a more "final" solution will come into play.
 
2017-09-07 12:33:53 PM  
It absolutely is hypocrisy.

But they will never admit that. LOL, of course.

The biggest hypocrites on earth will always whine about being treated unfairly, to deflect from their obvious farkery. Once some motherfarker starts to whine, you know every word that comes out of his/her mouth is a lie.
 
2017-09-07 12:38:10 PM  
It's simultaneously sad and hilarious.  Christians never bother to look at their affiliation with Republicans and ask who's using who?  That affiliation has won a lot of elections for Republicans while being almost entirely counterproductive for Christians.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-07 12:43:43 PM  
5 Stages of GOP Guilt.
1) Denial - It didn't happen
2) Redefinition - But it's not wrong to begin with
3) Deflection - Whatabout?
4) Projection - But you did it worse!
5) Indifference - It doesn't really matter anyway
 
2017-09-07 12:49:54 PM  
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Um, no, fark you.  Evangelicals deserve to be irrelevant, and if their impending extinction is their justification for aligning themselves with a man signifying the exact opposite of all the bullshiat they say they hold dear, then they deserve it tenfold.

Maybe, just maybe, evangelical christianity has always been a conduit for hard right wing politics (like the NRA and FOX News) and has never had a goddamn thing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ.  Trump is not the only unseemly character they've aligned themselves with; Evangelicals wholeheartedly endorsed Newt Gingrich in 2012 after he signed a pact pledging to "defend traditional marriage".

These shiat-eating troglodytes believe the stupidest shiat, and NOW they're panicking because their numbers are dwindling?  Hell, they'd be more relevant if they actually behaved like REAL Christians and embraced those in the margins of society instead of being hate-fueled pant-shiatting rage babies about sver single goddamn thing.
 
2017-09-07 12:55:03 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: I admit, even after growing up in a crazy, cult-like fundamentalist community, and being part of a Pentecostal cult in college, I was pretty surprised at how readily the evangelicals threw in with Trump. I fully expected a lot of Christians to be onboard with dickish economic policies, but I figured that Donald's sexual peccadillos and almost complete unfamiliarity with Christianity would be a bridge too far. However, I've had a lot of time to think about it since last year, and I think I've been able to reconcile it, for the following three reasons:

1. Tribalism has been a part of Christianity almost since the beginning. There's evidence of sectarianism in the earliest books of the New Testament (Paul's epistles,) and the early Church canonized, as part of the Bible, an entire book about how Christians were ultimately going to be proven right and detailed the myriad ways in which everyone who gave them grief was going to pay. It's difficult to overstate how much people are willing to overlook if you help "us" to defeat and humiliate "them."


Humans are tribal creatures, that is our fundamental default setting and imho Evangelicals went old school Biblical tribal thinking.  There's a reason they quote the Old Testament a lot more than Jesus himself.  "We are the new Chosen People and we cannot wait to watch you all burn in Hell.  It will be glorious"
 
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