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(ESPN)   "Football and school don't go together"   ( espn.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, National Football League, American football, quarterback Josh Rosen, football player, College, SAT requirement, Bleacher Report, college football player  
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975 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 Aug 2017 at 10:20 AM (49 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-08-09 09:48:37 AM  
If that's so, then colleges should drop football. At least football of the type that is incompatible with school.

But I object to the idea that school is a full-time job. Exceedingly few university students put in 40 hours per week. I doubt many put in more than 28 hours a week of effort. I never did, and that including lots of lab courses.
 
2017-08-09 09:55:55 AM  
Well they mention Alabama in the article. Makes me wonder, but I bet it is hard to get into that school....unless you can play football.
 
2017-08-09 10:12:10 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

"We can't support both. Tomorrow we start tearing down the college."
- Q. A. Wagstaff
 
2017-08-09 10:30:28 AM  
It seems more and more common that players are at school for 5 years due to red-shirt/grey-shirt and/or injury.  Plus (IMHO) most college students take more than 4 years to complete their degree.  I would guess that that number is WAY lower for athletes that play on sports that are broadcasted, because they don't finish.
 
2017-08-09 10:43:05 AM  

J Noble Daggett: If that's so, then colleges should drop football. At least football of the type that is incompatible with school.

But I object to the idea that school is a full-time job. Exceedingly few university students put in 40 hours per week. I doubt many put in more than 28 hours a week of effort. I never did, and that including lots of lab courses.


This. I had class for about 12 hours every week and maybe did an equal amount of time doing school work on my own. I worked 30 hours a week delivering pizzas and STILL had plenty of time to fark around and generally do nothing but play video games and get drunk. Graduated magna cum laude.*

This snowflake just hates school, which is fine. College level academics aren't for everyone. But to say that football player academics at freaking Alabama is too rigorous to balance with football is simply ludicrous.

fark football, how do college basketball players juggle school and basketball during the season? Longer season, 3x the games, more travel, etc... You don't hear them biatchin' about school like these coddled football kids.

This is the reason my kids won't be playing football. Anti-Intellectualism runs rampant.

*that's what it said on the commencement program, so I'm just going with it.

/end CSB
 
2017-08-09 10:45:44 AM  
http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2017/08/julian_whigham_echoe​s​_comments_from_ucla_qb_on_demands_on_student-athletes_time.html

Syracuse wouldn't let a football player into their journalism school because it would take too much time away from football

That's some great free* education**

*not actually free
**in a jock major they can keep you eligible in
 
2017-08-09 11:20:00 AM  
My niece went to a 3rd tier athletic school to play soccer. The number of hours those women put into sports is/was literally insane. Men's athletics must be worse. At every level.

Do away with college athletics. Immediately.
 
2017-08-09 11:28:28 AM  

drewsclues: J Noble Daggett: If that's so, then colleges should drop football. At least football of the type that is incompatible with school.

But I object to the idea that school is a full-time job. Exceedingly few university students put in 40 hours per week. I doubt many put in more than 28 hours a week of effort. I never did, and that including lots of lab courses.

This. I had class for about 12 hours every week and maybe did an equal amount of time doing school work on my own. I worked 30 hours a week delivering pizzas and STILL had plenty of time to fark around and generally do nothing but play video games and get drunk. Graduated magna cum laude.*

This snowflake just hates school, which is fine. College level academics aren't for everyone. But to say that football player academics at freaking Alabama is too rigorous to balance with football is simply ludicrous.

fark football, how do college basketball players juggle school and basketball during the season? Longer season, 3x the games, more travel, etc... You don't hear them biatchin' about school like these coddled football kids.

This is the reason my kids won't be playing football. Anti-Intellectualism runs rampant.

*that's what it said on the commencement program, so I'm just going with it.

/end CSB


fark them totally, what about baseball players? They have the longest season, and the most games of all. Yet they somehow manage it without whining for special treatment.
 
2017-08-09 11:29:29 AM  
But they have to go to school because that's their "compensation" for risking their lives and future health so the head football coach and the athletic director can afford fancy houses and alumni will donate big money.

I'll make my suggestion again. The athletes become employees of the school and are given the option to go to class or take straight cash homie. If the scholarship is how they're being paid for their jobs as football players, then pay the people who don't want (or even qualify) for the scholarship in real money, not company cash.

Can't afford it? Too bad, so sad. There doesn't really need to be 100+ football playing colleges anyway. The ones that can afford it (oh and you better believe there's many who can, despite their constant pleas of poverty) can stop pretending they care about educating these athletes and pay them for their services. The ones that can't afford it can drop to a noncompetitive level of club sports and focus on, I don't know, being a college and not a sports factory.
 
2017-08-09 11:38:36 AM  
Insert Cardale Jones' tweet, something something about not coming to play school.
 
2017-08-09 11:47:51 AM  
I like this kid. He's got moxie!
 
2017-08-09 11:54:06 AM  
fark them totally, what about baseball players?

Oh, the guys who can sign major league contracts and start getting paid right out of high school if they want? For a league where 30-40% of the players came from the NCAA instead of virtually all of them?
 
2017-08-09 11:58:05 AM  

drewsclues: J Noble Daggett: If that's so, then colleges should drop football. At least football of the type that is incompatible with school.

But I object to the idea that school is a full-time job. Exceedingly few university students put in 40 hours per week. I doubt many put in more than 28 hours a week of effort. I never did, and that including lots of lab courses.

This. I had class for about 12 hours every week and maybe did an equal amount of time doing school work on my own. I worked 30 hours a week delivering pizzas and STILL had plenty of time to fark around and generally do nothing but play video games and get drunk. Graduated magna cum laude.*

This snowflake just hates school, which is fine. College level academics aren't for everyone. But to say that football player academics at freaking Alabama is too rigorous to balance with football is simply ludicrous.

fark football, how do college basketball players juggle school and basketball during the season? Longer season, 3x the games, more travel, etc... You don't hear them biatchin' about school like these coddled football kids.

This is the reason my kids won't be playing football. Anti-Intellectualism runs rampant.

*that's what it said on the commencement program, so I'm just going with it.

/end CSB


If I heard correctly this morning, they are only allowed to spend 20 hours a week on football per NCAA rules.
 
2017-08-09 12:03:39 PM  
Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs. There are guys who have no business being in school, but they're here because this is the path to the NFL. There's no other way. Then there's the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes and then the product on the field suffers.

JFC,  he's worse than Google Bro.  Outrageously outraged.
 
2017-08-09 12:32:12 PM  

kdawg7736: Well they mention Alabama in the article. Makes me wonder, but I bet it is hard to get into that school....unless you can play football.


Not really; my cousin's daughter went there, apparently because she wanted the college experience, without having to deal with the academic requirements of Michigan State.
 
2017-08-09 12:43:06 PM  

ElwoodCuse: http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2017/08/julian_whigham_echoe​s​_comments_from_ucla_qb_on_demands_on_student-athletes_time.html

Syracuse wouldn't let a football player into their journalism school because it would take too much time away from football

That's some great free* education**

*not actually free
**in a jock major they can keep you eligible in


There was a swimmer in the EE program I was in (probably the only athelete.  Presumably with scholarship).  My grandfather ran cross-country for WV* (probably no real scholarship, not sure about the whole story.  He switched majors to get a job in the ag department, that much I'm sure about), eventually got his PhD.
/* yes, I know WV is a top 10 party school that will take anyone who can fog a mirror.  Their football team creams my alma mater every year.
// in the depression you took what you could get
/// whatever it took to get off the farm
 
2017-08-09 12:44:28 PM  

JAGChem82: Insert Cardale Jones' tweet, something something about not coming to play school.


He responded to Rosen:  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000827290/article/cardale-jones​-t​o-josh-rosen-chill-bro-play-school

/Also, Cardale graduated last year, so he did end up playing school.
 
2017-08-09 12:50:28 PM  
Let's just drop the pretense of the student athlete entirely. Let them carry a low class load (six or so credits) and be athletes affiliated with the school. Pay them a small stipend for living expenses.
 
2017-08-09 12:52:57 PM  

buckeyebrain: JAGChem82: Insert Cardale Jones' tweet, something something about not coming to play school.

He responded to Rosen:  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000827290/article/cardale-jones-​to-josh-rosen-chill-bro-play-school

/Also, Cardale graduated last year, so he did end up playing school.


Of course, Rosen doesn't seem to be suggesting that he shouldn't have to "play school". Maybe Cardale should've tried actually learning in school.
 
2017-08-09 01:00:56 PM  

error 303: Pay them a small stipend for living expenses.


or let them get paid whatever the market will bear for their services like everyone else
 
2017-08-09 01:08:02 PM  
"Then there's the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes and then the product on the field suffers."

Then farking let it suffer. You are getting the equivalent of a $100K education by participating in a sport. If you're good at the sport but have no mental ability to be in the school, then you don't deserve to be there. Period.

Want to be in the NFL? Make those farkbags develop their own minor league system. Stop using the university system as your development camp.
 
2017-08-09 01:09:03 PM  

kdawg7736: Well they mention Alabama in the article. Makes me wonder, but I bet it is hard to get into that school....unless you can play football.


It's much easier to have the academic prowess to earn a scholarship to the University of Alabama than it is to have the football prowess to do so.

"He started at Alabama" guarantees that professional scouts are going to at least give you every opportunity to earn a living as a professional athlete for a few years. And whether or not it works out is almost irrelevant, because that same phrase will open doors in private enterprise like few others.
 
2017-08-09 01:10:23 PM  

drewsclues: This snowflake just hates school, which is fine. College level academics aren't for everyone. But to say that football player academics at freaking Alabama is too rigorous to balance with football is simply ludicrous.


What article did you (or didn't) read? "This snowflake" is a tryhard douchebro that belongs in Silicon Valley who thinks his football actually gets in the way...at least for now, before he makes a few million in the NFL.
 
2017-08-09 01:13:06 PM  

Law Talking Guy: But they have to go to school because that's their "compensation" for risking their lives and future health so the head football coach and the athletic director can afford fancy houses and alumni will donate big money.

I'll make my suggestion again. The athletes become employees of the school and are given the option to go to class or take straight cash homie. If the scholarship is how they're being paid for their jobs as football players, then pay the people who don't want (or even qualify) for the scholarship in real money, not company cash.

Can't afford it? Too bad, so sad. There doesn't really need to be 100+ football playing colleges anyway. The ones that can afford it (oh and you better believe there's many who can, despite their constant pleas of poverty) can stop pretending they care about educating these athletes and pay them for their services. The ones that can't afford it can drop to a noncompetitive level of club sports and focus on, I don't know, being a college and not a sports factory.


Their compensation is the cash payments they receive from the school. The free education is a fringe benefit.
 
2017-08-09 01:19:03 PM  
mrsleep:
fark them totally, what about baseball players? They have the longest season, and the most games of all. Yet they somehow manage it without whining for special treatment.

Look up graduation rates for football vs baseball players.
I would take away all NCAA TV payments for schools that don't maintain at least 50% graduation rates. No scholarships, not TV revenues. See things change
 
2017-08-09 01:24:51 PM  
Football is a fall sport, so during the fall, one or two classes (3 or 6 credits), max.  During spring make them take the full course load, since spring practice should be only during spring break, with the spring game at the end.  Summertime should also be a full course load (full load varies by school) until preseason practice.

All of this should be covered by scholarship if they have a free ride, and obviously they won't finish in four or five years this way, so the scholarship should continue until graduation, as long as the now-former student athlete stays a real undergrad (good grades, full-time schedule, etc).

If that means the school has to shell out more money from their athletic scholarship fund, so be it.  Cut the coach's salary (Nick Saben can afford it) if need be.
 
2017-08-09 01:25:31 PM  
My son just wrapped up his D3 career last year. I asked him if football players got any preferential treatment and he laughed. He said about a quarter of the team missed some or all of practice the week of their playoff game (they finished the season just out of the top 10) because they had class/tests. A few steps slower but still damn good football.
 
2017-08-09 01:26:26 PM  

JAGChem82: Insert Cardale Jones' tweet, something something about not coming to play school.


s2.postimg.orgView Full Size
 
2017-08-09 01:29:58 PM  

WoodyHayes: JAGChem82: Insert Cardale Jones' tweet, something something about not coming to play school.

[s2.postimg.org image 640x345]


I knew Woody would be here eventually with that pic.

Also, someone needs to teach Cardale how to iron.
 
2017-08-09 01:33:11 PM  

IAmRight: buckeyebrain: JAGChem82: Insert Cardale Jones' tweet, something something about not coming to play school.

He responded to Rosen:  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000827290/article/cardale-jones-​to-josh-rosen-chill-bro-play-school

/Also, Cardale graduated last year, so he did end up playing school.

Of course, Rosen doesn't seem to be suggesting that he shouldn't have to "play school". Maybe Cardale should've tried actually learning in school.


i.pinimg.comView Full Size


They can't all be graduates of a highly educated university.
 
2017-08-09 01:50:56 PM  

The_Y2P_Problem: IAmRight: buckeyebrain: JAGChem82: Insert Cardale Jones' tweet, something something about not coming to play school.

He responded to Rosen:  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000827290/article/cardale-jones-​to-josh-rosen-chill-bro-play-school

/Also, Cardale graduated last year, so he did end up playing school.

Of course, Rosen doesn't seem to be suggesting that he shouldn't have to "play school". Maybe Cardale should've tried actually learning in school.

[i.pinimg.com image 236x174]

They can't all be graduates of a highly educated university.


I heard the math classes at Michigan are really difficult.
 
2017-08-09 01:52:28 PM  
No offense but given the difficulty that NFL teams have with teaching kids playbooks maybe they should take more classes?
 
2017-08-09 02:19:30 PM  
Funny, Deshaun Watson and Artavis Scott both graduated in three years AND won a natty to boot.
 
2017-08-09 03:11:49 PM  
Tennessee just graduated a QB (Josh Dobbs) with a degree in aerospace engineering and he never even took a red shirt year. Seems like others can get it done.
 
2017-08-09 03:39:24 PM  

never trust a bunny: Tennessee just graduated a QB (Josh Dobbs) with a degree in aerospace engineering and he never even took a red shirt year. Seems like others can get it done.


oh well if this one guy could do it
 
2017-08-09 03:53:54 PM  

never trust a bunny: Tennessee just graduated a QB (Josh Dobbs) with a degree in aerospace engineering and he never even took a red shirt year. Seems like others can get it done.


He was on an academic scholarship, and was supposed to take a redshirt, as his aerospace engineering is a five year program. He only started late in his true freshman year when Worley, in his senior year, had a season-ending injury.  Dobbs could go back to finish up the program if he doesn't replace Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh.
 
2017-08-09 04:19:22 PM  

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: never trust a bunny: Tennessee just graduated a QB (Josh Dobbs) with a degree in aerospace engineering and he never even took a red shirt year. Seems like others can get it done.

He was on an academic scholarship, and was supposed to take a redshirt, as his aerospace engineering is a five year program. He only started late in his true freshman year when Worley, in his senior year, had a season-ending injury.  Dobbs could go back to finish up the program if he doesn't replace Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh.


Saw an article today saying he had finished his bachelor's and graduated in May. It could have been wrong I guess. I'm quite familiar with his career. He was the main starter 2 years but started several games his first two for to injuries. That's a pretty good college career, and he did it on a very difficult study program.
 
2017-08-09 04:22:33 PM  

ElwoodCuse: never trust a bunny: Tennessee just graduated a QB (Josh Dobbs) with a degree in aerospace engineering and he never even took a red shirt year. Seems like others can get it done.

oh well if this one guy could do it


As opposed to one guy complaining about it? Seems pretty fair to me.
 
2017-08-09 04:42:24 PM  

never trust a bunny: As opposed to one guy complaining about it? Seems pretty fair to me.


yes Josh Rosen is the one person in the entire NCAA that thinks there isn't enough time to balance school and football
 
2017-08-09 04:51:12 PM  

ElwoodCuse: never trust a bunny: As opposed to one guy complaining about it? Seems pretty fair to me.

yes Josh Rosen is the one person in the entire NCAA that thinks there isn't enough time to balance school and football


Just like Josh Dobbs is the one guy to balance it well.
 
2017-08-09 05:03:19 PM  

never trust a bunny: ElwoodCuse: never trust a bunny: Tennessee just graduated a QB (Josh Dobbs) with a degree in aerospace engineering and he never even took a red shirt year. Seems like others can get it done.

oh well if this one guy could do it

As opposed to one guy complaining about it? Seems pretty fair to me.


There's tons of guys complaining about it, but most of them wait until they leave.
 
2017-08-09 05:16:08 PM  

never trust a bunny: drunk_bouncnbaloruber: never trust a bunny: Tennessee just graduated a QB (Josh Dobbs) with a degree in aerospace engineering and he never even took a red shirt year. Seems like others can get it done.

He was on an academic scholarship, and was supposed to take a redshirt, as his aerospace engineering is a five year program. He only started late in his true freshman year when Worley, in his senior year, had a season-ending injury.  Dobbs could go back to finish up the program if he doesn't replace Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh.

Saw an article today saying he had finished his bachelor's and graduated in May. It could have been wrong I guess. I'm quite familiar with his career. He was the main starter 2 years but started several games his first two for to injuries. That's a pretty good college career, and he did it on a very difficult study program.


Oh, didn't realize he finished it.  It was a five year program and this upcoming school year was year five, so I figured he still had some more to do.  Good for him.
 
2017-08-09 05:17:15 PM  
There is every incentive in the world for them to trot out guys for whom the system worked and they get one dude. Meanwhile the tons of people getting screwed by it had better keep their mouths shut unless they want things to get worse.
 
2017-08-09 05:27:31 PM  

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: never trust a bunny: drunk_bouncnbaloruber: never trust a bunny: Tennessee just graduated a QB (Josh Dobbs) with a degree in aerospace engineering and he never even took a red shirt year. Seems like others can get it done.

He was on an academic scholarship, and was supposed to take a redshirt, as his aerospace engineering is a five year program. He only started late in his true freshman year when Worley, in his senior year, had a season-ending injury.  Dobbs could go back to finish up the program if he doesn't replace Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh.

Saw an article today saying he had finished his bachelor's and graduated in May. It could have been wrong I guess. I'm quite familiar with his career. He was the main starter 2 years but started several games his first two for to injuries. That's a pretty good college career, and he did it on a very difficult study program.

Oh, didn't realize he finished it.  It was a five year program and this upcoming school year was year five, so I figured he still had some more to do.  Good for him.


I think it was an accelerate masters program. He probably didn't finish it but had enough credits for a bachelor's, or something like that.
 
2017-08-09 05:33:10 PM  

ElwoodCuse: There is every incentive in the world for them to trot out guys for whom the system worked and they get one dude. Meanwhile the tons of people getting screwed by it had better keep their mouths shut unless they want things to get worse.


There are a couple more up thread. There are certainly more over the years. It varies from school to school I imagine. When it comes to Bama he is probably right. But there are  plenty of schools with both good athletics and academics.
 
2017-08-09 05:37:55 PM  

never trust a bunny: But there are plenty of schools with both good athletics and academics.


There are zero schools that fairly compensate their athletes for the time required of them, which is the real issue here
 
2017-08-09 05:42:58 PM  

abhorrent1: If I heard correctly this morning, they are only allowed to spend 20 hours a week on football per NCAA rules.


And Marine Corps Drill Instructors are only allowed to PT a recruit for so much time.  The loophole is the Drill Instructors tag out so it isn't one PTing you for a long period, but three over a long period.

I imagine the coaches do similar crap.  Those 20 hours were for football, but these next 10 hours, "general athletics", the 10 hours after that are "off-season track practice".
 
2017-08-09 05:44:16 PM  

ElwoodCuse: never trust a bunny: But there are plenty of schools with both good athletics and academics.

There are zero schools that fairly compensate their athletes for the time required of them, which is the real issue here


I agree completely there. I personally think the athletes should be able to sell, their endorsements, likeness rights, and memorabilia like any other Athlete. I think that would balance the money issue out. The school vs athletics balance is pretty subjective though.
 
2017-08-09 06:10:03 PM  

never trust a bunny: ElwoodCuse: never trust a bunny: But there are plenty of schools with both good athletics and academics.

There are zero schools that fairly compensate their athletes for the time required of them, which is the real issue here

I agree completely there. I personally think the athletes should be able to sell, their endorsements, likeness rights, and memorabilia like any other Athlete. I think that would balance the money issue out. The school vs athletics balance is pretty subjective though.


There was a big issue where players likenesses were being sold (by the NCAA and the schools) to video game companies for tons of money, with the actual athletes getting none of it (some eventually sued).  It was enough of a clusterfark that they don't make licensed college sports video games any more.
 
2017-08-09 06:14:38 PM  

jayphat: WoodyHayes: JAGChem82: Insert Cardale Jones' tweet, something something about not coming to play school.

[s2.postimg.org image 640x345]

I knew Woody would be here eventually with that pic.

Also, someone needs to teach Cardale how to iron.


I know how to iron, sew, and buff both shoes and floors until they're practically mirrors. Even more surprisingly, I'm not gay.
 
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