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(The New York Times) Hero Tiananmen Square: On this site, almost 28 years ago, something happened. And a photographer who was there thinks the world should know it wasn't fake news   (nytimes.com) divider line
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7068 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jun 2017 at 7:53 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2017-06-02 3:32:13 PM  

Russ1642: dittybopper: Russ1642: dittybopper: Sorry about the double image.  Forget to delete the version with all the whitespace.

And zero explanation in the PDF.

Actually, it's there.  If you know what to look for.  Think about why I might post that in this particular thread.

Nobody wants to read pages and pages of crap looking for a clue. This ain't a scavenger hunt.


img.memecdn.comView Full Size
 
2017-06-02 3:34:08 PM  
I should point out, if you recognize what award that lapel pin signifies, it's much easier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_Army
 
2017-06-02 3:38:10 PM  

dittybopper: I should point out, if you recognize what award that lapel pin signifies, it's much easier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_Army


You seemed to go out of your way to make sure nobody cares.
 
2017-06-02 3:40:37 PM  

Russ1642: genner: Lets see whats China's best search engine says

At a minimum you should be looking up "Tiananmen Square massacre" or "Tiananmen Square protests"

A quick search reveals that  both those still give top results of claiming it's a myth.

 
2017-06-02 3:42:43 PM  

dittybopper: I should point out, if you recognize what award that lapel pin signifies, it's much easier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_Army


You still won't post the name of the medal and the reason it's given out and why you were awarded it. You think people should go and look it up. My guess is that it's handed out to those that went above and beyond in being obnoxious assholes while bragging.
 
2017-06-02 3:42:59 PM  

dittybopper: Thirty is two whole magnitudes fewer than the incident we're discussing.


The incident you're discussing, which is what, your army medals? I replied directly to a comment about OWS deaths being zero.


Russ1642: dittybopper: I should point out, if you recognize what award that lapel pin signifies, it's much easier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_Army

You seemed to go out of your way to make sure nobody cares.


Wait until he realizes his picture of a "superior unit award" has nothing to do with the headline. Hasn't he said before he was stationed in Germany in the '70s? I award him this for his clusterfark of a Superior Reply he gave me upthread:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2017-06-02 3:43:34 PM  

Russ1642: dittybopper: Sorry about the double image.  Forget to delete the version with all the whitespace.

And zero explanation in the PDF.


Miesau, West Germany?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_Unit_Award
 
2017-06-02 3:44:53 PM  

Russ1642: dittybopper: Russ1642: dittybopper: Sorry about the double image.  Forget to delete the version with all the whitespace.

And zero explanation in the PDF.

Actually, it's there.  If you know what to look for.  Think about why I might post that in this particular thread.

Nobody wants to read pages and pages of crap looking for a clue. This ain't a scavenger hunt.


Reverse image search is your friend:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2017-06-02 3:47:24 PM  

genner: Russ1642: genner: Lets see whats China's best search engine says

At a minimum you should be looking up "Tiananmen Square massacre" or "Tiananmen Square protests"

A quick search reveals that  both those still give top results of claiming it's a myth.


Those are articles about people claiming it's a myth. If you look up the holocaust you'll see stories about deniers too. Same goes for the moon landings. It doesn't mean the state supports those views. Those articles don't necessarily support those views either, they're just reporting them. The only thing that's telling is the ranking of those articles amongst the others, but again it still doesn't tell you that the state is denying what happened.
 
2017-06-02 3:53:04 PM  

UsikFark: dittybopper: Thirty is two whole magnitudes fewer than the incident we're discussing.


The incident you're discussing, which is what, your army medals? I replied directly to a comment about OWS deaths being zero.


You replied to something I didn't say.  I *NEVER* said OWS deaths = 0.

I said the deaths in and around Tienanmen square were two orders of magnitude greater than the number of OWS deaths.  You just weren't smart enough to figure it out.
 
2017-06-02 3:53:20 PM  

dittybopper: I'm authorized to wear this lapel pin:

[img.fark.net image 598x139]

[cdn.shopify.com image 600x600]


I'm guessing it's a medal presented for outstanding threadjacking.
 
2017-06-02 3:58:17 PM  

dittybopper: I said the deaths in and around Tienanmen square were two orders of magnitude greater than the number of OWS deaths.  You just weren't smart enough to figure it out.


I figured it out. It had zero to do with my post and I told you so. But here we are.
 
2017-06-02 3:58:31 PM  

flexflint: Russ1642: dittybopper: Sorry about the double image.  Forget to delete the version with all the whitespace.

And zero explanation in the PDF.

Miesau, West Germany?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_Unit_Award


Right award, wrong unit.

Fark user image
 
2017-06-02 4:00:15 PM  

sethen320: Can somebody give me an idea as to what the fark is the deal with the medal?  I read the damn pdf and I'm not getting what the point is.


See my post above.
 
2017-06-02 4:00:47 PM  

dittybopper: UsikFark: dittybopper: Thirty is two whole magnitudes fewer than the incident we're discussing.


The incident you're discussing, which is what, your army medals? I replied directly to a comment about OWS deaths being zero.

You replied to something I didn't say.  I *NEVER* said OWS deaths = 0.

I said the deaths in and around Tienanmen square were two orders of magnitude greater than the number of OWS deaths.  You just weren't smart enough to figure it out.


let me spell this out for you:

DB is claiming inside knowledge of 3000 Tienanmen deaths, which is probably classified in some way.
Or he's BS.
 
2017-06-02 4:04:28 PM  

sethen320: Can somebody give me an idea as to what the fark is the deal with the medal?  I read the damn pdf and I'm not getting what the point is.


It'd be like someone showing you this, and winking an eye, and then being put off when you just farking ask them what it means. (apparently it means they're vegan)
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2017-06-02 4:10:59 PM  

She comes in colors everywhere: dittybopper: UsikFark: dittybopper: Thirty is two whole magnitudes fewer than the incident we're discussing.


The incident you're discussing, which is what, your army medals? I replied directly to a comment about OWS deaths being zero.

You replied to something I didn't say.  I *NEVER* said OWS deaths = 0.

I said the deaths in and around Tienanmen square were two orders of magnitude greater than the number of OWS deaths.  You just weren't smart enough to figure it out.

let me spell this out for you:

DB is claiming inside knowledge of 3000 Tienanmen deaths, which is probably classified in some way.
Or he's BS.


He's easing into stolen honor / epic thread territory.
 
2017-06-02 4:16:51 PM  

She comes in colors everywhere: dittybopper: UsikFark: dittybopper: Thirty is two whole magnitudes fewer than the incident we're discussing.


The incident you're discussing, which is what, your army medals? I replied directly to a comment about OWS deaths being zero.

You replied to something I didn't say.  I *NEVER* said OWS deaths = 0.

I said the deaths in and around Tienanmen square were two orders of magnitude greater than the number of OWS deaths.  You just weren't smart enough to figure it out.

let me spell this out for you:

DB is claiming inside knowledge of 3000 Tienanmen deaths, which is probably classified in some way.
Or he's BS.


I have no special knowledge on the number of deaths, aside from what I've read in public sources.  But even if I did, I couldn't discuss it.

But yes, I was a Morse interceptor assigned to the 732nd MI Bn, 703rd MI Bde, United States Army Field Station Kunia during the time period in question.
 
2017-06-02 4:23:16 PM  

dittybopper: She comes in colors everywhere: dittybopper: UsikFark: dittybopper: Thirty is two whole magnitudes fewer than the incident we're discussing.


The incident you're discussing, which is what, your army medals? I replied directly to a comment about OWS deaths being zero.

You replied to something I didn't say.  I *NEVER* said OWS deaths = 0.

I said the deaths in and around Tienanmen square were two orders of magnitude greater than the number of OWS deaths.  You just weren't smart enough to figure it out.

let me spell this out for you:

DB is claiming inside knowledge of 3000 Tienanmen deaths, which is probably classified in some way.
Or he's BS.

I have no special knowledge on the number of deaths, aside from what I've read in public sources.  But even if I did, I couldn't discuss it.

But yes, I was a Morse interceptor assigned to the 732nd MI Bn, 703rd MI Bde, United States Army Field Station Kunia during the time period in question.


So why'd you get the award? I know you want to talk about it. It's probably the high point of your career, is it not? Did you tell the Chinese about your new award, and were they properly impressed? Enthrall us with your thread jack.
 
2017-06-02 4:30:46 PM  

sethen320: UsikFark: dittybopper: She comes in colors everywhere: dittybopper: UsikFark: dittybopper: Thirty is two whole magnitudes fewer than the incident we're discussing.


The incident you're discussing, which is what, your army medals? I replied directly to a comment about OWS deaths being zero.

You replied to something I didn't say.  I *NEVER* said OWS deaths = 0.

I said the deaths in and around Tienanmen square were two orders of magnitude greater than the number of OWS deaths.  You just weren't smart enough to figure it out.

let me spell this out for you:

DB is claiming inside knowledge of 3000 Tienanmen deaths, which is probably classified in some way.
Or he's BS.

I have no special knowledge on the number of deaths, aside from what I've read in public sources.  But even if I did, I couldn't discuss it.

But yes, I was a Morse interceptor assigned to the 732nd MI Bn, 703rd MI Bde, United States Army Field Station Kunia during the time period in question.

So why'd you get the award? I know you want to talk about it. It's probably the high point of your career, is it not? Did you tell the Chinese about your new award, and were they properly impressed? Enthrall us with your thread jack.

I'm genuinely curious.


The sad thing is he could have made a single post, told his story, and gotten a few interested replies. Instead, he's playing a solo game of poker with a hand full of Uno cards.
 
2017-06-02 4:38:11 PM  

sethen320: dittybopper: sethen320: Can somebody give me an idea as to what the fark is the deal with the medal?  I read the damn pdf and I'm not getting what the point is.

See my post above.

So, any idea about all the confusion over tank man?


I can honestly say I have no knowledge about his fate, other than what I've read in books and online.
 
2017-06-02 5:18:29 PM  

UsikFark: So why'd you get the award? I know you want to talk about it. It's probably the high point of your career, is it not? Did you tell the Chinese about your new award, and were they properly impressed? Enthrall us with your thread jack.


It's an award given to the entire unit (hence "Superior Unit Award").

And I left the Army before it was actually awarded.  I got a letter from the DoD telling me I was authorized to wear it about a year after I got out.

As for specifics?  Well, I could tell you, but then I'd have to spend 10 years in jail.

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information
(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information-
(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4) obtained by the processes of communicaton intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes-
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.


It's public knowledge what was done at Kunia* (it's closed now, functions transferred to the Hawaii Cryptologic Center, on the other side of Wahiawa from the tunnel) :
https://fas.org/irp/news/1995/soldiers_jan95_p26.htm
https://www.opsecprofessionals.org/articles/chinataps.html

The award is public knowledge.

You want to ask me about specifics?  Sorry.  You're out of luck.  But yes, I was one of many listening.  It was my job.
 
2017-06-02 5:26:27 PM  

dittybopper: The award is public knowledge.

You want to ask me about specifics? Sorry. You're out of luck. But yes, I was one of many listening. It was my job.


Not to denigrate... I spent some time on Navy ships (as a civilian) and they get to paint some of their awards on the wings of the bridge.  I asked about them - some of them are quite significant, others amount to "they kept the decks real clean the whole time!"
 
2017-06-02 5:31:35 PM  
And because I know there is a certain "FLYNAVY" factor in making claims of military service, here is my unclassified SQT (Skills Qualification Test - basically a yearly test to make sure you know your job) from just before:

Fark user imageView Full Size



Note that I was a Morse interceptor, and I was assigned to Kunia.

Also, I got a 94% on the test.  Company commander gave me an "attaboy" certificate for that.

I didn't care, I was short.
 
2017-06-02 5:32:44 PM  

dittybopper: You want to ask me about specifics?  Sorry.  You're out of luck.


It took you 22 posts to get to finally say "I can't talk about it but here's a link." To put that in your terms, that's an order of magnitude more posts than I've spent making fun of you for it.
 
2017-06-02 5:44:38 PM  

UsikFark: dittybopper: You want to ask me about specifics?  Sorry.  You're out of luck.

It took you 22 posts to get to finally say "I can't talk about it but here's a link." To put that in your terms, that's an order of magnitude more posts than I've spent making fun of you for it.


Friday.  Slow day at the office, I'm guessing.

Say... don't you have a report due!?
 
2017-06-02 8:56:13 PM  
lol, all the butthurt because someone didn't spoon feed all the details up front? really?

Special secret message for dittybopper

-... . / ... ..- .-. . / - --- / -.. .-. .. -. -.- / -.-- --- ..- .-. / --- ...- .- .-.. - .. -. .
 
2017-06-02 9:17:17 PM  

sethen320: dittybopper: UsikFark: So why'd you get the award? I know you want to talk about it. It's probably the high point of your career, is it not? Did you tell the Chinese about your new award, and were they properly impressed? Enthrall us with your thread jack.

It's an award given to the entire unit (hence "Superior Unit Award").

And I left the Army before it was actually awarded.  I got a letter from the DoD telling me I was authorized to wear it about a year after I got out.

As for specifics?  Well, I could tell you, but then I'd have to spend 10 years in jail.

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information
(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information-
(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4) obtained by the processes of communicaton intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes-
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

It's public knowledge what was done at Kunia* (it's closed now, functions transferred to the Hawaii Cryptologic Center, on the other side of Wahiawa from the tunnel) :
https://fas.org/irp/news/1995/soldiers_jan95_p26.htm
https://www.opsecprofessionals.org/articles/chinataps.html

The award is public knowledge.

You want to ask me about specifics?  Sorry.  You're out of luck.  But yes, I was one of many listening.  It was my job.

it looks like one of those links says your program was compromised.  Are you trying to tell us you were a Chinese spy?


It was, but after I was there.  And that happened before Edward Snowden worked there.
 
2017-06-02 9:19:35 PM  

HighlanderRPI: lol, all the butthurt because someone didn't spoon feed all the details up front? really?

Special secret message for dittybopper

-... . / ... ..- .-. . / - --- / -.. .-. .. -. -.- / -.-- --- ..- .-. / --- ...- .- .-.. - .. -. .


Thanks, but I think I'll have dadididit dit dit didadit instead.
 
2017-06-02 9:31:42 PM  

HighlanderRPI: lol, all the butthurt because someone didn't spoon feed all the details up front? really?


Especially since I like to pose cryptographic puzzles here on Fark, though I haven't in a while.

By the way, it's possible that at least some of the intelligence we produced will be declassified in the next few years.  I believe 30 years is when it's eligible for review for declassification, though you can expect a bunch of redactions.  Much of the Vietnam War stuff was declassified about 10 years ago.

But until it's officially published, I can't talk about it.

If you are jonesing for classified shiat, the NSA has a ton of very interesting historical declassified documents on their website, including all of the Venona decrypts and a bunch of documents from the Cuba Missile Crisis, Korean War, Vietnam War, and incidents like the USS Pueblo, USS Liberty, and the shoot down of KAL007.
 
2017-06-02 10:19:51 PM  

dittybopper: HighlanderRPI: lol, all the butthurt because someone didn't spoon feed all the details up front? really?

Especially since I like to pose cryptographic puzzles here on Fark, though I haven't in a while.

By the way, it's possible that at least some of the intelligence we produced will be declassified in the next few years.  I believe 30 years is when it's eligible for review for declassification, though you can expect a bunch of redactions.  Much of the Vietnam War stuff was declassified about 10 years ago.

But until it's officially published, I can't talk about it.

If you are jonesing for classified shiat, the NSA has a ton of very interesting historical declassified documents on their website, including all of the Venona decrypts and a bunch of documents from the Cuba Missile Crisis, Korean War, Vietnam War, and incidents like the USS Pueblo, USS Liberty, and the shoot down of KAL007.


You mention a bunch of classified stuff that you know and then claim people are pestering you to learn classified stuff. That's like two orders of magnitude more smug than you'd find in a vegan Apple store.
 
2017-06-03 12:14:42 AM  

Russ1642: dittybopper: HighlanderRPI: lol, all the butthurt because someone didn't spoon feed all the details up front? really?

Especially since I like to pose cryptographic puzzles here on Fark, though I haven't in a while.

By the way, it's possible that at least some of the intelligence we produced will be declassified in the next few years.  I believe 30 years is when it's eligible for review for declassification, though you can expect a bunch of redactions.  Much of the Vietnam War stuff was declassified about 10 years ago.

But until it's officially published, I can't talk about it.

If you are jonesing for classified shiat, the NSA has a ton of very interesting historical declassified documents on their website, including all of the Venona decrypts and a bunch of documents from the Cuba Missile Crisis, Korean War, Vietnam War, and incidents like the USS Pueblo, USS Liberty, and the shoot down of KAL007.

You mention a bunch of classified stuff that you know and then claim people are pestering you to learn classified stuff. That's like two orders of magnitude more smug than you'd find in a vegan Apple store.


Look, it's not my fault that you're so illiterate you don't even know Morse.

I am the King of Morse
There is none higher
Sucks no-coders
Should call me sire
I got traffic to send
And it will get sent
All the dits are on time
And dahs correct
I pound the brass
Until it catches fire
I got a steel arm
That don't get tired...
 
2017-06-03 12:35:14 AM  
Funny how this thread went.

My point was that the US is better at neutralizing protest movements than China, and does it in a way that is relatively inoffensive. We don't need to sweep it under the rug, we don't need tanks. Somehow a major movement for economic justice with goals supported by people on both "teams" - that is, making sure banks don't get free money while the rest of us get screwed - is painted as hippies and homeless bums who want "free stuff" and then swept away in a flood of ridicule. The banks got everything they wanted - under Obama.

A movement to end police brutality and extrajudicial killings becomes black people being angry, and even the black president when this movement started offered honeyed words and very, very little help. Somehow something that most people agree on in principle becomes something about black people being angry for some inexplicable reason and people pick their "teams" yet even the "team" that supposedly supports BLM did Jack and shiat for them.

China's elites are dumbasses for thinking tanks and blood and censorship are more effective. Our system protects elite interests much more effectively, and we don't even notice.
 
2017-06-03 2:46:15 AM  

MorduTheLarge: I want to farkie you as "has inappropriate conversations with Chinese women".


Hehe. They did ask though!
 
2017-06-03 4:11:37 AM  

DerpHerder: cherryl taggart: Does it even get mentioned in colleges?  I know it's not discussed on elementary, middle or high school levels in Georgia.  Even the world history courses only mention China in the context of ancient dynasties and the Mongols.  The texts shift focus ever westward until America hits the Great Depression and suddenly, we're bombing Japan and putting troops in Korea and Vietnam.  Like a void exists between the westernmost tip of Japan and north of India.  It's either cultural bigotry or a subtle misdirection from some group that seems to admire the controls that China employs.

In Junior High (could have been 9th grade) in Kansas we actually read a book about the events. It was told from the perspective of a foreign photographer and may have been historical fiction but we discussed the events (details are fuzzy).


I think we read that same book.

/Missouri
 
2017-06-03 10:44:03 AM  
BTW, there are those NSA declassified documents.

https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/

This one is especially interesting because it gives a heretofore unreported perspective on that conflict:

https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-histories/assets/files/spartans_in_darkness.pdf

There are a couple interesting things, one being that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was basically a (dark) comedy of errors, and the other being that the idea that the Viet Cong were in any way an independent force from Hanoi:  The SIGINT evidence proves that they were wholly controlled from North Vietnam.
 
2017-06-03 11:31:44 AM  
When I went to China one if my coworkers told me about growing up in the 70s during the famine. His family looked up to Mao and the party and expected things would get better. We were in a public place at the time so I don't know how much was said for his own benefit rather than mine.
Never got into political discussions with my coworkers there since it wasn't value added discussion. Did apologize for Trump, though.
 
2017-06-03 9:18:33 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: When I went to China one if my coworkers told me about growing up in the 70s during the famine. His family looked up to Mao and the party and expected things would get better. We were in a public place at the time so I don't know how much was said for his own benefit rather than mine.
Never got into political discussions with my coworkers there since it wasn't value added discussion. Did apologize for Trump, though.


Yes, because it's not polite to talk about the greatest mass murderer of the 20th Century, but fine to apologize for a buffoon who hasn't been responsible for a single death.

/Always gotta be one in every farkin' thread these days.
 
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