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(Think Progress)   At her confirmation hearing, Secretary of Education nominee Betsy DeVos said we need guns in school to protect us from grizzly bears. Stephen Colbert nods in approval   (thinkprogress.org) divider line
    More: Stupid, Firearm, Education, Firearms, Gun, United States Senate, Donald Trump, Gun politics, Cannon  
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1808 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Jan 2017 at 2:30 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2017-01-18 9:34:03 AM  

Parthenogenetic: rynthetyn: Weaver95: rynthetyn:


You have to remember that everybody is good at something. To get REALLY good at something require deliberate practice. To become excellent at something requires neglecting other things, if for nothing else, there are only 24 hours in a day.

Surgeons can be brilliant at medical science, but absolute morons about anything (or even EVERYTHING) else. The same with sports stars, computer programmers, and billionaire moguls.

There is no volume discount on experience. Even where you can apply lessons from one field to another, there are far more counter examples where you can't.
 
2017-01-18 9:38:22 AM  
What's really frightening is that there are people out there who agree with her
 
2017-01-18 9:52:52 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: Franken hits her with an easy question if she's prepared.  She's not.  About 1:30 in.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/oF8wEH2ixak - 480x360]


I wish I had an Al Franken.
 
2017-01-18 9:52:54 AM  
DeVos's testimony was so surprisingly appalling I had to laugh. Guns in schools because of grizzly bears. Completely unaware of critical issues in education. And, of course, a complete lack of shame or even embarrassment for her ludicrous deficiencies.

Guns in schools  because of grizzly bears. I'd be tempted to say that's the stupidest thing I'd ever heard in the political sphere but there's the beloved memory of the pyramids use as grain storage.

The implications of the grizzly bear issue aren't completely obvious. These bears out there have lost their fear of masses of people., Worse, they can work complicated mechanical devices previously out of their reach. Like door knobs. Someone out in Wyoming is breeding super-grizzly bears and training them. And worse. The adults in Wyoming have abandoned their responsibilities to the children in their care.
 
2017-01-18 9:55:37 AM  
Being an outsider is "one of the most important qualifications" DeVos could have?  I'm not a doctor, but as an outsider I'd bring a fresh perspective to performing brain surgery. Step right up. I'll scrub up and get started on you.
 
2017-01-18 10:00:39 AM  

SoupGuru: Who was it back in the day that countered the "large magazines + semi automatic assault rifle aren't useful for anything more than killing lots of humans" argument with "are you crazy? Have you ever tried hunting feral hogs without one?!"

Basically, if you can find one semi legit reason for a gun (you may have to squint),  you've just destroyed any argument against you.


DIA
 
2017-01-18 10:01:29 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: SoupGuru: Who was it back in the day that countered the "large magazines + semi automatic assault rifle aren't useful for anything more than killing lots of humans" argument with "are you crazy? Have you ever tried hunting feral hogs without one?!"

Basically, if you can find one semi legit reason for a gun (you may have to squint),  you've just destroyed any argument against you.

DIA


F?
 
2017-01-18 10:09:52 AM  
I hate guns with a passion (former Marine, expert marksman with a rifle, sharpshooter with a pistol). I think the second amendment is outdated and bastardized (in terms of a well-regulated militia). But I have to agree with her and anybody that thinks the same. Any idiot meaning harm will bring a gun to school whether they are allowed or not. And most violent crime using guns prey on the weak - people they know are probably not armed. So if some nutjob knows nobody in school is allowed to defend themselves, what better target? Now, I have empathy for the other side of the argument - the police show up and have a bunch of people shooting at each other. Which one(s) is(are) the bad guys? How many get injured because of not being trained properly? I think that concern is nullified by the original point - a person meaning harm is less likely to go someplace where people are ready for him/her. They are too cowardly for that. Generally speaking, it makes the counterpoint moot.

We need more responsible people with guns carrying. Irresponsible ones will do it anyhow.
 
2017-01-18 10:10:58 AM  
This thread is why I like fark. Sure, the bear stuff is goofballs, but the thread has dozens of substantive links as well.

I often feel I get more out of one thread like this than a day's listening to npr.
 
2017-01-18 10:17:03 AM  

yakmans_dad: DeVos's testimony was so surprisingly appalling I had to laugh. Guns in schools because of grizzly bears. Completely unaware of critical issues in education. And, of course, a complete lack of shame or even embarrassment for her ludicrous deficiencies.


DeVos is the biggest "burn it all down" nomination of all of Trump's picks.
 
2017-01-18 10:26:46 AM  

insertsnarkyusername: Well certain far north towns in Canada and Alaska might want to keep a few for when the starving polar bears come to town.


This is the government guideline for legal (non-restricted) gun storage in Canada;

Must be unloaded.
Must be secured by a locking device so that it cannot be fired ormust be locked into a room or container that is hard to break into.
Exception:An unloaded non-restricted firearm can be stored temporarily (separate from ammunition) if it is needed for predator control.


How much more Canadian can it get than an exception to your safe gun storage laws due to polar bears.
 
2017-01-18 10:38:12 AM  

Farkomatic: I hate guns with a passion (former Marine, expert marksman with a rifle, sharpshooter with a pistol). I think the second amendment is outdated and bastardized (in terms of a well-regulated militia). But I have to agree with her and anybody that thinks the same. Any idiot meaning harm will bring a gun to school whether they are allowed or not. And most violent crime using guns prey on the weak - people they know are probably not armed. So if some nutjob knows nobody in school is allowed to defend themselves, what better target? Now, I have empathy for the other side of the argument - the police show up and have a bunch of people shooting at each other. Which one(s) is(are) the bad guys? How many get injured because of not being trained properly? I think that concern is nullified by the original point - a person meaning harm is less likely to go someplace where people are ready for him/her. They are too cowardly for that. Generally speaking, it makes the counterpoint moot.

We need more responsible people with guns carrying. Irresponsible ones will do it anyhow.


A past statement by farkomatic, "saddam was right to gas the kurds".
 
2017-01-18 10:42:34 AM  
Of all the picks and nominations Trump is going to make, including the Supreme Court.  I think Betsy DeVos is going to do the most damage to our country.
 
2017-01-18 10:48:49 AM  
Transition team: "We have a potential pick for Sec. of Education!"
Trump: "Tell me more."
Transition Team: "Her name is Betsy DeVos, and she's very committed to education politics."
Trump: "Sounds great, anything else I need to know?"
Transition Team: "There might be a couple of cons to picking her."
Trump: "Uh..... OK, like what?"
Transition team: "She has never attended a public school before."
Trump: "Cool, me either."
Transition Team: "Her kids have never been to a public school either."
Trump: "Hmmmm....... How come she's so passionate about education politics?"
Transition Team: "She thinks public schools should be done away with."
Trump: "Cool, anything else I need to know?"
Transition Team: "She brags that she buys politicians in order to get rid of public schooling."
Trump: "Hire her."
 
2017-01-18 11:16:03 AM  

Alphax: Has she ever seen a bear that wasn't in a zoo or circus?  I have not.


I have. In middle TN, in a county that wasn't supposed to have them. Black bear managed to wander a REALLY long way from the mountains. But yeah, typically she'd only be able to excuse the classroom bear comment if she lived in Alaska, Idaho, or Montana. Then you actually can have problems with bears in town. Schools also can't afford to keep replacing dumpsters:

Brown Bear Thief CAUGHT Stealing Dumpster
Youtube io9SxQXcYzo
 
2017-01-18 11:38:46 AM  

WDFark think for a second: phrawgh: Satanic_Hamster: And biatch?  You're a farking idiot if you think a handgun will do anything but piss a grizzly off.

Another uninformed, know nothing, anti-gun lib. Of course there are hand guns which can take out a grizzly.

[www.thefirearmblog.com image 450x321]

Crawl back in your hole, Bernie-bro. Bear free zones DO NOT WORK! Since when did bears obey the law?

...as a gun owning and carrying for a living liberal I can't let this go on any longer. I get that bears are huge creatures but ignoring the fact that. 50 cal handguns exist...

Do you really think that . 45 hollow point few shots to the head is only gonna make a grizzly mad?

As oppose to I dunno...destroy it's brain stem to the point it's not breathing.

Also this woman's nomination makes me weep for this country.


If you are talking about .45 ACP, you may not even penetrate skull. I am as big a fan of the round as anyone, but I'd prefer something faster than 850 FPS (average) for my anti-bear gun. Probably .44 mag or .460 Rowland. Of course, .500 S&W works, but it's a bit cumbersome. There are a couple "high-velocity" .45 ACP loads out there, but they are only 1000-1150 FPS at best. Considering the standard ball loads are 835 FPS, it is a bit weak. Also, you will not be able to get off more than a couple of shots against a charging bear anyway, so it's not like you will be able to empty a mag into the bear before you are mauled.  It's better to make sure that the one or two shots you DO get are sufficient to do the job.
 
2017-01-18 11:44:06 AM  

culebra: This entire hearing was a travesty. She is so far out of her depth it's unbelievable. Oh and here's a little something to keep you up at night: she's Erik Prince's sister. Yes, the same Erik Prince who went to ground after Blackwater got caught doing all sorts of nasty shiat in Iraq. He's back as an "adviser" to Trump.

Anyhow, Franken, Kaine, Warren and Sanders went in pretty hard on her, but she kept grinning and bullshiatting enough that she'll get confirmed. A woman that doesn't believe that all schools receiving federal funding should have to equally abide by civil rights laws is going to be the next SecEd.


I'd add the CT senator to the list who went after her too. His closing line about looking forward to her coming to Connecticut to talk about the effects of guns in schools was withering.

But you're right, it won't make a damn bit of difference. By all metrics, other than being a mega-rich 'outsider' (as far as traditional education goes), she is not qualified for this position. I thought Franken's question about growth vs. proficiency, that she was wholly unprepared to answer, should have disqualified her right there. I could disagree with her ideas on education and education reform, but she has to have an idea in the first place. There was a lot of 'Thank you for that question, Senator," and "I look forward to working with you on how we can achieve a solution," bullshiat, but very little of concrete ideas.

In other words, she fits right in with the Trump administration.
 
2017-01-18 11:48:11 AM  

Farkomatic: I hate guns with a passion (former Marine, expert marksman with a rifle, sharpshooter with a pistol). I think the second amendment is outdated and bastardized (in terms of a well-regulated militia). But I have to agree with her and anybody that thinks the same. Any idiot meaning harm will bring a gun to school whether they are allowed or not. And most violent crime using guns prey on the weak - people they know are probably not armed. So if some nutjob knows nobody in school is allowed to defend themselves, what better target? Now, I have empathy for the other side of the argument - the police show up and have a bunch of people shooting at each other. Which one(s) is(are) the bad guys? How many get injured because of not being trained properly? I think that concern is nullified by the original point - a person meaning harm is less likely to go someplace where people are ready for him/her. They are too cowardly for that. Generally speaking, it makes the counterpoint moot.

We need more responsible people with guns carrying. Irresponsible ones will do it anyhow.


Holy crap, unicorns do exist. Someone who personally hates guns, but actually understands how reality works? I didn't think that was possible, and on fark no less. Have you considered running for a public office?
 
2017-01-18 12:16:46 PM  

washington-babylon: Farkomatic: I hate guns with a passion (former Marine, expert marksman with a rifle, sharpshooter with a pistol). I think the second amendment is outdated and bastardized (in terms of a well-regulated militia). But I have to agree with her and anybody that thinks the same. Any idiot meaning harm will bring a gun to school whether they are allowed or not. And most violent crime using guns prey on the weak - people they know are probably not armed. So if some nutjob knows nobody in school is allowed to defend themselves, what better target? Now, I have empathy for the other side of the argument - the police show up and have a bunch of people shooting at each other. Which one(s) is(are) the bad guys? How many get injured because of not being trained properly? I think that concern is nullified by the original point - a person meaning harm is less likely to go someplace where people are ready for him/her. They are too cowardly for that. Generally speaking, it makes the counterpoint moot.

We need more responsible people with guns carrying. Irresponsible ones will do it anyhow.

Holy crap, unicorns do exist. Someone who personally hates guns, but actually understands how reality works? I didn't think that was possible, and on fark no less. Have you considered running for a public office?


No, there is nothing reasonable about saying that the active shooters in schools would be deterred from their already suicidal attempt by the existence of guns in schools.  At best one could argue you might deter them in choice of target only, so they go shoot up a park instead of a school.  In which case, you succeeded at saving zero lives, but did increase casualties due to gun accidents as a by-product of stocking your schools with weapons. So now of course you'll call for arming everyone everywhere, because obviously merely forcing people to shoot up location X instead of Y doesn't do much.  If everywhere is armed, and the shooter is suicidal (and yes, most active shooters know they aren't making it out alive, and indeed don't even attempt anything close to a hit and run approach), then now he right back to shooting up the school.

And you are going to need weapons all through the school, or else you merely create a target point for the start. If the guns are in the principal's office, you start by going straight to him.  No one is going to maintain a level of high vigilance in the school on a daily basis, so that first target is pretty much guaranteed to go down. So now you need guns all over the school. If they are to be any good against an active shooter, they need to be accessible quickly, so we are talking armed teachers.

What could go wrong? Everything. What would go right? Very little.  To be frank, I could really give a fark one way or another whether a school wants to allow guns or not, but anyone who thinks throwing a dozen armed people in plain clothes into an active shooter environment is going to solve a thing is living in a fantasy world.

It is a terrible idea overall, something on par with those who claimed more people should have been armed in the Aurora theater.

/gun owner
 
2017-01-18 12:27:27 PM  

Smackledorfer: Farkomatic: I hate guns with a passion (former Marine, expert marksman with a rifle, sharpshooter with a pistol). I think the second amendment is outdated and bastardized (in terms of a well-regulated militia). But I have to agree with her and anybody that thinks the same. Any idiot meaning harm will bring a gun to school whether they are allowed or not. And most violent crime using guns prey on the weak - people they know are probably not armed. So if some nutjob knows nobody in school is allowed to defend themselves, what better target? Now, I have empathy for the other side of the argument - the police show up and have a bunch of people shooting at each other. Which one(s) is(are) the bad guys? How many get injured because of not being trained properly? I think that concern is nullified by the original point - a person meaning harm is less likely to go someplace where people are ready for him/her. They are too cowardly for that. Generally speaking, it makes the counterpoint moot.

We need more responsible people with guns carrying. Irresponsible ones will do it anyhow.

A past statement by farkomatic, "saddam was right to gas the kurds".


It should have said you are an idiot because I never said or suggested that. I have no idea of which statement you are referring to, but I've been consistent enough to know that the context was in regards to "Saddam gassing his own people". As if he dropped WMD in downtown Baghdad. The Kurds were an opposition force (from his standpoint) who teamed up with Iran - who Iraq was at war with. We sided with Iraq. Saddam gassed the Kurds with the Iraqi fighters he was gassing also. Nowhere did I say this is right because it is abhorrent. As abhorrent as the United States of America setting hundreds of thousands of people on fire by nuking 2 cities in Japan. But this is war. In World War I, it was mustard gas. There has always been and will always be WMD. I'm not going to bother looking up the statement you are referring to because I don't have to. I feel dumber already having to interact with a fool such as yourself who doesn't have simple comprehension skills. And to make it worse, this is your response to the point I made regarding this subject? Not to get too personal, but have you considered getting a CAT scan or were you always this stupid?
 
2017-01-18 12:59:02 PM  

Parthenogenetic: The best part: these folks are goddamned doctors. Surgeons, who by dint of their superior intellect and judgment are entrusted with peoples' lives and well-being. Oh well.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-01-18 1:16:32 PM  

Missicat: Guys I really don't know what to do after Friday.  My boss is a huge Republican.  He was actually OK before he married some wack a doodle wingnut a few years ago and  has since just gone off the rails. He is SO looking forward to Friday when that darn black guy is out of office.  And all this stuff on the news about Trump, his actions, his cabinet picks, etc. etc.?? It's all made up by the Hilary loving libruls.  Seriously.  Help!


I can't be open about my politics at work or I will get fired. The joys of working in agribusiness.
   I even had a DADT policy with my coworkers. Then they started going through my Facebook. Apparently I need to "get right with God and ask forgiveness" for my views. There's now a lovely note in my file that I'm disruptive.
   And then they got pissed that they're blocked.
 
2017-01-18 1:18:42 PM  

washington-babylon: Alphax: Has she ever seen a bear that wasn't in a zoo or circus?  I have not.

I have. In middle TN, in a county that wasn't supposed to have them. Black bear managed to wander a REALLY long way from the mountains. But yeah, typically she'd only be able to excuse the classroom bear comment if she lived in Alaska, Idaho, or Montana. Then you actually can have problems with bears in town. Schools also can't afford to keep replacing dumpsters:

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/io9SxQXcYzo - 480x270]


Do you have woods or forests?  You have black bears (which actually maybe be black, brown, tan, or white).  Black bears like trees and if they can wander a greenbelt they will.
 
2017-01-18 2:17:12 PM  

Ambivalence: I did once open the door to go to school and found a giant moose

images4.fanpop.comView Full Size

 
2017-01-18 2:20:15 PM  

Farkomatic: Smackledorfer: Farkomatic: I hate guns with a passion (former Marine, expert marksman with a rifle, sharpshooter with a pistol). I think the second amendment is outdated and bastardized (in terms of a well-regulated militia). But I have to agree with her and anybody that thinks the same. Any idiot meaning harm will bring a gun to school whether they are allowed or not. And most violent crime using guns prey on the weak - people they know are probably not armed. So if some nutjob knows nobody in school is allowed to defend themselves, what better target? Now, I have empathy for the other side of the argument - the police show up and have a bunch of people shooting at each other. Which one(s) is(are) the bad guys? How many get injured because of not being trained properly? I think that concern is nullified by the original point - a person meaning harm is less likely to go someplace where people are ready for him/her. They are too cowardly for that. Generally speaking, it makes the counterpoint moot.

We need more responsible people with guns carrying. Irresponsible ones will do it anyhow.

A past statement by farkomatic, "saddam was right to gas the kurds".

It should have said you are an idiot because I never said or suggested that. I have no idea of which statement you are referring to, but I've been consistent enough to know that the context was in regards to "Saddam gassing his own people". As if he dropped WMD in downtown Baghdad. The Kurds were an opposition force (from his standpoint) who teamed up with Iran - who Iraq was at war with. We sided with Iraq. Saddam gassed the Kurds with the Iraqi fighters he was gassing also. Nowhere did I say this is right because it is abhorrent. As abhorrent as the United States of America setting hundreds of thousands of people on fire by nuking 2 cities in Japan. But this is war. In World War I, it was mustard gas. There has always been and will always be WMD. I'm not going to bother looking up the statement you are referring to because I don't have to. I feel dumber already having to interact with a fool such as yourself who doesn't have simple comprehension skills. And to make it worse, this is your response to the point I made regarding this subject? Not to get too personal, but have you considered getting a CAT scan or were you always this stupid?


Bless your heart.
 
2017-01-18 3:34:35 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Joseph Lieberman, the "Democratic" nominee for vice president in 2000, introduced DeVos on Tuesday and vouched for her leadership, arguing that her status as an outsider is an asset.


99.99% of the time, I'm fundamentally against anti-semitism.  The other .01% of the time, this motherfarker has just said or done something to remind me he exists.
 
2017-01-18 3:49:27 PM  

Missicat: Guys I really don't know what to do after Friday.  My boss is a huge Republican.  He was actually OK before he married some wack a doodle wingnut a few years ago and  has since just gone off the rails. He is SO looking forward to Friday when that darn black guy is out of office.  And all this stuff on the news about Trump, his actions, his cabinet picks, etc. etc.?? It's all made up by the Hilary loving libruls.  Seriously.  Help!


Quietly start looking for another job while taking every covert opportunity to secretly sabotage your boss's business.
 
2017-01-18 3:53:40 PM  

thorpe: yakmans_dad: DeVos's testimony was so surprisingly appalling I had to laugh. Guns in schools because of grizzly bears. Completely unaware of critical issues in education. And, of course, a complete lack of shame or even embarrassment for her ludicrous deficiencies.

DeVos is the biggest "burn it all down" nomination of all of Trump's picks.


I wonder if whatever Blackwater is called these days will be hired to enforce the curfews once the disintegration really starts to accelerate.
 
2017-01-18 3:54:55 PM  

hobbes0022: Of all the picks and nominations Trump is going to make, including the Supreme Court.  I think Betsy DeVos is going to do the most damage to our country.


Just imagine an entire new generation even more stupid than what we have now.
 
2017-01-18 3:57:32 PM  

Twist2005: Missicat: Guys I really don't know what to do after Friday.  My boss is a huge Republican.  He was actually OK before he married some wack a doodle wingnut a few years ago and  has since just gone off the rails. He is SO looking forward to Friday when that darn black guy is out of office.  And all this stuff on the news about Trump, his actions, his cabinet picks, etc. etc.?? It's all made up by the Hilary loving libruls.  Seriously.  Help!

I can't be open about my politics at work or I will get fired. The joys of working in agribusiness.
   I even had a DADT policy with my coworkers. Then they started going through my Facebook. Apparently I need to "get right with God and ask forgiveness" for my views. There's now a lovely note in my file that I'm disruptive.
   And then they got pissed that they're blocked.


If something ever happens where you actually get fired, I'm sure the ACLU would be very interested in this story and any others you may be able to share.
 
2017-01-18 4:53:52 PM  

whither_apophis: washington-babylon: Alphax: Has she ever seen a bear that wasn't in a zoo or circus?  I have not.

I have. In middle TN, in a county that wasn't supposed to have them. Black bear managed to wander a REALLY long way from the mountains. But yeah, typically she'd only be able to excuse the classroom bear comment if she lived in Alaska, Idaho, or Montana. Then you actually can have problems with bears in town. Schools also can't afford to keep replacing dumpsters:

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/io9SxQXcYzo - 480x270]

Do you have woods or forests?  You have black bears (which actually maybe be black, brown, tan, or white).  Black bears like trees and if they can wander a greenbelt they will.


We don't have a contiguous stretch of woods over 250 miles long that goes between the nearest black bear range and the place I saw this one. There are gaps, large gaps even, between those location that have no forest at all. That is why it is unusual in the extreme to see black bears there.
 
2017-01-18 5:54:54 PM  

clodcomplex: So that teachin' lady tells me the only 3 letters I need are U, S, N, R, and A.


FTFY
 
2017-01-18 6:01:47 PM  

extroverted_suicide: Soup4Bonnie: Joseph Lieberman, the "Democratic" nominee for vice president in 2000, introduced DeVos on Tuesday and vouched for her leadership, arguing that her status as an outsider is an asset.

99.99% of the time, I'm fundamentally against anti-semitism.  The other .01% of the time, this motherfarker has just said or done something to remind me he exists.


I wonder what Lieberman would think if Israeli wingnuts decided to appoint an outspoken Catholic, I don't know, say Rick Santorum, as prime minister.  You know, to bring that outsider's perspective.
 
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