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(Justia)   So your fiance just dumped you and you want to know who gets the ring? Here's a primer on Engagement Ring Law   (verdict.justia.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, heart balm, heart balm actions, engagement, engagement ring, Engagement Ring Law, Virginia Supreme Court, heart balm laws, so-called heart balm  
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7322 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2016 at 2:07 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2016-12-29 12:55:53 PM  
I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.
 
2016-12-29 12:59:10 PM  
Forget that shiat and move on.
 
2016-12-29 1:02:32 PM  

drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.


That's basically all you need to know. Anyone trying to make it more complex than that is probably just some lawyer trying to bill hours.
 
2016-12-29 1:18:55 PM  

Pocket Ninja: drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.

That's basically all you need to know. Anyone trying to make it more complex than that is probably just some lawyer trying to bill hours.


Except that is completely incorrect.
 
2016-12-29 1:20:53 PM  

drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.


If the ring is a family heirloom, that may complicate matters.  If it's been passed down in the family and the woman is not going to be part of the family, I'd think it should go back to the family.
 
2016-12-29 1:29:07 PM  

kronicfeld: Except that is completely incorrect


Meh. Says the lawyer.
 
2016-12-29 1:50:14 PM  

drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.


What if the proposer has a good reason to break it off...like catching the proposee cheating, or finding out that she's a Yankees fan?  You know, something unforgivable.
 
2016-12-29 2:08:45 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.

What if the proposer has a good reason to break it off...like catching the proposee cheating, or finding out that she's a Yankees fan?  You know, something unforgivable.


Easy enough to get the ring back as you're disposing of the body.
 
2016-12-29 2:09:38 PM  
Sounds like this guy dodged a bullet/biatch.
 
2016-12-29 2:11:10 PM  

drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.


That's my understanding - 

If A gives Ring to B , and B accepts proposal of marriage, then ... 

if A wants out of marriage, ring is compensation to B
If B wants out of marriage ring is returned to A to release all claims.
 
2016-12-29 2:11:38 PM  
My ex-fiancee tossed the ring at me in a fit of rage one night. Kept the ring after that night and never gave it back. We buried the hatchet for a few months, but eventually broke it off.
That was 6 years ago. Still have the ring because I refuse to pawn it for $9,500 less than I paid for it.
/One mistake I'll never make again
 
2016-12-29 2:12:39 PM  
An engagement ring is a gift given in contemplation of marriage.  If the marriage doesn't happen (for ANY reason), the ring should go to the person who paid for it.
 
2016-12-29 2:12:52 PM  

SpectroBoy: Sounds like this guy dodged a bullet/biatch.


Bullet Biatch is the name of my new WWII Female Protagonist RPG.
 
2016-12-29 2:13:09 PM  
Unless ring is given on an occasion (Valentine's Day, Christmas, birthday, etc.) If the marriage doesn't happen it goes back to the proposer.
 
2016-12-29 2:15:05 PM  
The women does because fark the guy

I have no idea how gay divorce will handle this dilema
 
2016-12-29 2:15:29 PM  

drewogatory: Sin_City_Superhero: drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.

What if the proposer has a good reason to break it off...like catching the proposee cheating, or finding out that she's a Yankees fan?  You know, something unforgivable.

Easy enough to get the ring back as you're disposing of the body.


Forward planning, excellent job qualification.  I salute you.
 
2016-12-29 2:16:18 PM  

Warlordtrooper: The women does because fark the guy

I have no idea how gay divorce will handle this dilema


Divorce is different legally.  This is breaking up before the marriage happens.
 
2016-12-29 2:16:22 PM  

drewogatory: Sin_City_Superhero: drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.

What if the proposer has a good reason to break it off...like catching the proposee cheating, or finding out that she's a Yankees fan?  You know, something unforgivable.

Easy enough to get the ring back as you're disposing of the body.


Thanks, you two. I'm laughing so hard.
 
2016-12-29 2:16:43 PM  
I was engaged once. Gave the ring back when it didn't work out. It's not complicated.
 
2016-12-29 2:17:45 PM  
Either don't give a ring in the first place or as TFA says, a mutual exchange.
 
2016-12-29 2:19:35 PM  

drewogatory: Sin_City_Superhero: drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.

What if the proposer has a good reason to break it off...like catching the proposee cheating, or finding out that she's a Yankees fan?  You know, something unforgivable.

Easy enough to get the ring back as you're disposing of the body.


Dumping the body and taking the ring is really the right thing to do.  Even if she dies of natural causes.
F*cking Yankees.
 
2016-12-29 2:20:10 PM  
He's a damn fool, Ed.  You're a flower, you are.
 
2016-12-29 2:21:48 PM  
Historically, a lady's jewels were her 401k, and the point of engagement rings & other jewelry was for the man to make an ongoing financial commitment to the woman.

Under that model she'd keep the jewelry regardless of who called it off.  Note that we don't live in the middle ages any more.  But the tradition continues, and a gift is a gift.
 
2016-12-29 2:21:49 PM  
I always thought it goes back to the person who proposed.
 
2016-12-29 2:23:00 PM  

drewogatory: I always thought if the proposer breaks it off the proposee keeps the ring and vice versa.


The rules are different depending on the law of your state.  If the ring is valuable enough to be worth fighting about, it's valuable enough that you should figure out the rules in your state before giving her the ring.
 
2016-12-29 2:23:23 PM  

mjbok: Unless ring is given on an occasion (Valentine's Day, Christmas, birthday, etc.) If the marriage doesn't happen it goes back to the proposer.


Because the ring is in lieu of marriage or something right? If the marriage doesn't happen it goes back right?
 
2016-12-29 2:23:47 PM  
What about the dowry?  If we break up does the father return that?!
 
2016-12-29 2:23:59 PM  
I asked my significant other if she wanted an expensive ring or a destination honeymoon and a nice down-payment on a new car.

We visited seven countries over four weeks and she picked up a few designer handbags in Paris.  She was very happy with the decision.  I was happy with the decision.  Our checkbook was happy with the decision.  It was a good time.
 
2016-12-29 2:24:33 PM  

SomeAmerican: Historically, a lady's jewels were her 401k, and the point of engagement rings & other jewelry was for the man to make an ongoing financial commitment to the woman.

Under that model she'd keep the jewelry regardless of who called it off.  Note that we don't live in the middle ages any more.  But the tradition continues, and a gift is a gift.


Except when it's not.  It depends on the law of your state.

soupafi: I always thought it goes back to the person who proposed.


Again, depends on the law of your state.
 
2016-12-29 2:24:52 PM  

mjbok: Unless ring is given on an occasion (Valentine's Day, Christmas, birthday, etc.) If the marriage doesn't happen it goes back to the proposer.


That's my understanding as well. In the situations that you mentioned (dates that are traditionally a time of gift giving) there may or may not be conditions attached even if it does come with a proposal and acceptance to get married. It might be "Romantic" but you might get screwed (and not in a good way).
 
2016-12-29 2:24:54 PM  

SomeAmerican: Historically, a lady's jewels were her 401k, and the point of engagement rings & other jewelry was for the man to make an ongoing financial commitment to the woman.

Under that model she'd keep the jewelry regardless of who called it off.  Note that we don't live in the middle ages any more.  But the tradition continues, and a gift is a gift.


It's not a gift.  It's a contract proposal.  Until the terms of the contract are fulfilled, it is basically on loan.
 
2016-12-29 2:25:16 PM  
Not being willing to give it back just proves that she's a petty, gold digging biatch and you dodged a bullet by breaking it off.

Also. If you drop 26k on a ring, you're an idiot
 
2016-12-29 2:25:23 PM  

soupafi: mjbok: Unless ring is given on an occasion (Valentine's Day, Christmas, birthday, etc.) If the marriage doesn't happen it goes back to the proposer.

Because the ring is in lieu of marriage or something right? If the marriage doesn't happen it goes back right?


Ding, ding, ding.
 
2016-12-29 2:26:07 PM  
A friend of mine's fiancé "lost"  the engagement ring and then broke it off a few weeks later.
 
2016-12-29 2:27:08 PM  

big pig peaches: A friend of mine's fiancé "lost"  the engagement ring and then broke it off a few weeks later.


Anyone that has a ring of significant value should have a rider that covers it.
 
2016-12-29 2:27:46 PM  

mjbok:  ... It's not a gift.  It's a contract proposal.  Until the terms of the contract are fulfilled, it is basically on loan.

Not necessarily.  Depends on the law in your particular state.

mjbok: ... Because the ring is in lieu of marriage or something right? If the marriage doesn't happen it goes back right?

Ding, ding, ding.


Not necessarily.  Depends on the law in your particular state.
 
2016-12-29 2:29:46 PM  

IndyJohn: mjbok:  ... It's not a gift.  It's a contract proposal.  Until the terms of the contract are fulfilled, it is basically on loan.

Not necessarily.  Depends on the law in your particular state.

mjbok: ... Because the ring is in lieu of marriage or something right? If the marriage doesn't happen it goes back right?

Ding, ding, ding.

Not necessarily.  Depends on the law in your particular state.


Could be correct.  Only know about states that impact me...and bird law.
 
2016-12-29 2:31:18 PM  
Question for Fark lawyers: what happens if you go through with marriage?  For 27 years?  And even though she was not a Yankees fan, I did find out she cheated.  Can I reclaim the ring (which is valuable BTW) as separate property?  Or must I claim the ring the old fashioned way, during disposal of the body?
 
2016-12-29 2:32:56 PM  
Think its different in each state.
The Ring is a gift so receiver gets to keep it.
Its contingent on future marriage. It goes back.
If the giver cancels, receiver keeps. If receiver cancels it goes back.
 
2016-12-29 2:33:05 PM  

hammettman: Question for Fark lawyers: what happens if you go through with marriage?  For 27 years?  And even though she was not a Yankees fan, I did find out she cheated.  Can I reclaim the ring (which is valuable BTW) as separate property?  Or must I claim the ring the old fashioned way, during disposal of the body?


A ring (like any other jewelry) should be considered a marital asset, but good luck getting it back.
 
2016-12-29 2:33:26 PM  

Dinjiin: I asked my significant other if she wanted an expensive ring or a destination honeymoon and a nice down-payment on a new car.

We visited seven countries over four weeks and she picked up a few designer handbags in Paris.  She was very happy with the decision.  I was happy with the decision.  Our checkbook was happy with the decision.  It was a good time.


And you still got her a perfectly serviceable moissainite piece for $600, and two tungsten carbide bands on Amazon for $10 each. Right?
 
2016-12-29 2:37:38 PM  

DubyaHater: My ex-fiancee tossed the ring at me in a fit of rage one night. Kept the ring after that night and never gave it back. We buried the hatchet for a few months, but eventually broke it off.
That was 6 years ago. Still have the ring because I refuse to pawn it for $9,500 less than I paid for it.
/One mistake I'll never make again


Sell it to someone you know who is getting engaged and is cheap for a decent sum but less than list, they save on the ring and you get more than you would if you hock it.

When you say $9,500 less it just reminds me of how much I cringe over the BS price of diamonds, it is a total scam.  My wife has my grandmother's engagement ring, which does not have a diamond but is still nice and has more meaning,

/one of my sisters has my Mom's rings
//the other my other grandmother's
///I have my father's/grandfather's/great gradfather's wedding ring (yes 4 generations have worn the same ring)
 
2016-12-29 2:39:35 PM  

Warlordtrooper: The women does because fark the guy

I have no idea how gay divorce will handle this dilema


Not even all straight couples have engagement rings. If a gay couple has a "gift"-but-not-a-gift-technically-ask-a-lawyer exchange as part of their intent to marry, one would assume the same rules apply.
 
2016-12-29 2:41:20 PM  
Just to tack onto the $26000 is stupid discussion and $600 moissainite on Amazon, if anyone here is under 50 and still think they can get married, you can also go through antique shops.  They're used, but you still get a good, real diamond, often with a custom design, for an insanely low "why the hell would I go to Jared?" price.
 
2016-12-29 2:41:48 PM  

mjbok: hammettman: Question for Fark lawyers: what happens if you go through with marriage?  For 27 years?  And even though she was not a Yankees fan, I did find out she cheated.  Can I reclaim the ring (which is valuable BTW) as separate property?  Or must I claim the ring the old fashioned way, during disposal of the body?

A ring (like any other jewelry) should be considered a marital asset, but good luck getting it back.


My 2nd (and final) divorce had a condition on the ring. I was going to buy her a ring worth about ($X), not a cheap one but she wanted one that cost ~$2k more. We agreed back when I bought it that if if we broke up and she wanted to keep it she had to pay back the difference between the two. She knew someone who owned a jewelry store and we got it at cost. That probably saved me at least $3K. She held up her end of the deal.
 
2016-12-29 2:46:09 PM  
The first time I got engaged, the woman wound up calling it off and handed the ring back to me. I sold it back to the jeweler (a friend of a friend) for only slightly less than for what I had purchased it. Dodged a bullet on the ring and the woman.

The second time I got engaged, my fiancee found out I had put a large chunk of the cost on a credit card with a high interest rate. She paid it off immediately with her own cash because "stupid debt" was no way to start a life together. We just celebrated our 10th anniversary.

I got really lucky in both cases.
 
2016-12-29 2:49:36 PM  

IndyJohn: SomeAmerican: Historically, a lady's jewels were her 401k, and the point of engagement rings & other jewelry was for the man to make an ongoing financial commitment to the woman.

Under that model she'd keep the jewelry regardless of who called it off.  Note that we don't live in the middle ages any more.  But the tradition continues, and a gift is a gift.

Except when it's not.  It depends on the law of your state.

soupafi: I always thought it goes back to the person who proposed.

Again, depends on the law of your state.


And therin lies the problem. We get a number of differing laws becuse the state has to intervene thanks to people being shiatty and not doing the right thing. AKA the reason for just about every law on the books.

The final disposition of the ring depends on the particulars of the breakup. Also, don't spend $26,000 on an engagemnt ring. And don't try to marry a woman who expects one. Expensive engagement rings are a massive scam that's become socially acceptable somehow.
 
2016-12-29 2:50:07 PM  
My ex proposed to me to probably keep me at bay from finding out about all the stuff she was into. I am glad I never got her a ring since she probably would have had pawned it for one of her debts or booze.
 
2016-12-29 2:50:41 PM  
I returned my jewelry, engagement & wedding rings when divorce became the word of the day.  Seemed wrong to keep them.  Of course, had I known exactly what a worthless pos the ex was in reality, selling them would have been a far better  choice :) :)
 
2016-12-29 2:51:55 PM  

Dinjiin: I asked my significant other if she wanted an expensive ring or a destination honeymoon and a nice down-payment on a new car.

We visited seven countries over four weeks and she picked up a few designer handbags in Paris.  She was very happy with the decision.  I was happy with the decision.  Our checkbook was happy with the decision.  It was a good time.


So in which country did you shoot the toaster?
 
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