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(The Stack)   'Invest in AI, don't worry about your jobs'. Thanks, Washington   (thestack.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Furman, Democratic Party, Jason Furman, Nvidia technology conference, President of the United States, basic AI research, Joe Biden, explosive potential  
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905 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Oct 2016 at 9:05 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



29 Comments     (+0 »)
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2016-10-27 4:29:48 PM  
There a lots of people with a tech background who think the answer is always more tech

And historians tell us that in the past, new tech is always met with fear as it disrupts traditional jobs and societies, but then the displaced always find new jobs in the new commercial system.

But strong suspicion that this time it's different, and that there is going to be far more displaced workers than any sort of jobs.

And we've already seen the consequences of ignoring the Left Behinds - they are east prey to populist politicians.

So we are probably going to have to work out a way to provide a Universal Basic Income.

Real Socialism!
 
2016-10-27 5:15:31 PM  

mjjt: Universal Basic Income.

Real Socialism!


Semi-socialism. Quasi-socialism. The margarine of Socialism. The Diet Coke of Socialism. Just one calorie... Not socialist enough.

I think Universal Basic Income is an idea whose time has come. Or, figure out what you're going to do with the continuing population of unskilled workers... Or skilled workers who simply aren't needed.

Best solution, of course, is population control. But that's politically impossible.
 
2016-10-27 5:43:46 PM  

Destructor: mjjt: Universal Basic Income.

Real Socialism!

Semi-socialism. Quasi-socialism. The margarine of Socialism. The Diet Coke of Socialism. Just one calorie... Not socialist enough.

I think Universal Basic Income is an idea whose time has come. Or, figure out what you're going to do with the continuing population of unskilled workers... Or skilled workers who simply aren't needed.


Fairly straightforward choice for the rich - do you want to spend your money on bodyguards and fortified communities, or would you agree to higher taxes to finance a UBI?

Bonus, if you choose Option 2, you have a population who can afford to buy the products that keep you in dollars.

Best solution, of course, is population control. But that's politically impossible.

You mean population control in sense of thinning out the herd. But Orwell suggested popn control through soma. "the warm, the richly coloured, the infinitely friendly world of soma-holiday. How kind, how good-looking, how delightfully amusing every one was! "  "All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects."

Of course we would never be so stupid as to rely on drugs to make the boredom go away .....

http://www.livescience.com/56248-america-opioid-use-epidemic.html
 
2016-10-27 6:02:11 PM  

mjjt: Fairly straightforward choice for the rich


It sure is... if it is even doable. I'm not convinced yet. But I think it's worth a really hard look.

mjjt: You mean population control in sense of thinning out the herd. But Orwell suggested popn control through soma. "the warm, the richly coloured, the infinitely friendly world of soma-holiday. How kind, how good-looking, how delightfully amusing every one was! " "All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects."


Ideally, neither.

I would like responsible parenting. If you can't afford to raise a kid... Don't have one! Just that simple. In my happy world, this would be completely voluntary, so there's no way it could possibly work--politically--on this planet until attitudes change... Which would be right around the time we have a massive die off due to some sort of easily predictable yet obviously horrific resource depletion or population catastrophe.

Really, when you get right down to it, most of the problems of the modern world are related to population. War, disease, poverty, pollution, resource scarcity, etc.

mjjt: Of course we would never be so stupid as to rely on drugs to make the boredom go away .....


Pain. To make the pain go away. The people who are on opioids (or perhaps, to a larger extent, addicted to drugs) are in some sort of pain, either physical or psychological.

Bottom line, they're distressed. I think UBI can go along way to alleviating some of that.
 
2016-10-27 6:52:02 PM  
Build Quantum Logic Thinker.
 
2016-10-27 7:21:36 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


How do I invest in him?
 
2016-10-27 9:10:02 PM  

fusillade762: [img.fark.net image 200x212]

How do I invest in him?


Buy copies of his last big album.
(kinda fits with the times)
 
2016-10-27 9:11:40 PM  

fusillade762: [img.fark.net image 200x212]

How do I invest in him?


Not that AL.

i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2016-10-27 9:11:56 PM  
There is a time coming very soon, where a huge number of jobs are going away.

It represents a massive change in our national and global economy and we need to start getting ready for it as a nation and a global community.

There has never been a time in human history in which automation did not win out in the end.
Not once.

GBI may be a way to help, maybe not, but something needs to be done.

Soon you may see signs that say
"Humans need not apply"

Humans Need Not Apply
Youtube 7Pq-S557XQU
 
2016-10-27 9:15:39 PM  
Yep, we're hosed.
I picture 2050, as having 10% of the population living in gated communities with the rest of us living among the squalor.
Along with the added joy of having some politicians telling us that it's our own fault, or the fault of minorities and immigrants.
 
2016-10-27 9:16:20 PM  
Guaranteed Minimum Income is looking more and more attractive...

And I say that as a guy giving your jobs to machines via automation.
 
2016-10-27 9:18:36 PM  
But do we dare take the chance of not funding AI research and risk having digital copies of ourselves subjected to an eternity in Android Hell?
 
2016-10-27 9:19:14 PM  

JustToLetYouKnowFriend: There is a time coming very soon, where a huge number of jobs are going away.

It represents a massive change in our national and global economy and we need to start getting ready for it as a nation and a global community.

There has never been a time in human history in which automation did not win out in the end.
Not once.

GBI may be a way to help, maybe not, but something needs to be done.

Soon you may see signs that say
"Humans need not apply"

[YouTube video]


Humans capable of automating and troubleshooting things are not being threatened. Humans incapable of critical thinking or analysis are. Talking about machines vs. humans or rich vs. poor is just ignoring the real divide. We are rapidly approaching a point where not being able to program or debug will be have to be considered a disability, just as if you were not able to learn to walk or talk.
 
2016-10-27 9:22:44 PM  
Who is this Al guy, and why is he taking all our jerbs?
Al Luminum?
Al Kayda?
 
2016-10-27 9:28:01 PM  

felching pen: Who is this Al guy, and why is he taking all our jerbs?
Al Luminum?
Al Kayda?


Yankovic. I've invested in every album, and there's been plenty of appreciation over the years.
 
2016-10-27 9:36:18 PM  
Well as long as senators and congresspeople are the first ones replaced.
 
2016-10-27 9:44:54 PM  
Still a better investment than UK-based Information Technology.

/Eat English Muffins
 
2016-10-27 10:15:45 PM  

mjjt: There a lots of people with a tech background who think the answer is always more tech



They're also the most likely to be libertarian and want government hands-off. But they dress it up with lots of flowery language like, "Those people will be able to pursue their creative dreams!"

You know! Of being FLAT-farkING BROKE!
 
2016-10-27 10:18:02 PM  
It's more true than most people want to admit.   The long term solution is that we'd all get dividends of the goods automated technology produces instead of making people perform busy work.

Universal basic income would solve a lot of social problems if we can get over the BS can do bootstrapping that leads to jobs being protected even when they're toxic or obsolete (see coal mining for details)
 
2016-10-27 10:23:28 PM  

JustToLetYouKnowFriend: There is a time coming very soon, where a huge number of jobs are going away.

It represents a massive change in our national and global economy and we need to start getting ready for it as a nation and a global community.

There has never been a time in human history in which automation did not win out in the end.
Not once.

GBI may be a way to help, maybe not, but something needs to be done.

Soon you may see signs that say
"Humans need not apply"

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Pq-S557XQU - 480x270]


Imagine
 
2016-10-27 10:29:43 PM  
Working our way toward silicon based life forms one processor at at time.
 
2016-10-27 10:31:44 PM  

groppet: Well as long as senators and congresspeople are the first ones replaced.


Replacing zero intelligence with artificial intelligence? Sounds like a step in the right direction to me.
 
2016-10-27 11:09:41 PM  
At least that proves that on some level someone SOMEWHERE in Washington is aware of the whole "What happens when robots REALLY dig into human employment?". If someone's thinking about at least the wont throw up their hands and go "WHO SAW THIS COMING? NOT US THATS FOR SURE" when the systems that took out the, say, minimum wage dead end/"get a REAL job" jobs are adapted and go for other positions people thought were 'safe'.

I wonder what the eventual solution will be. They cant just go "Nah it's fine" and watch as boatloads less people are unable to spend money as they go into full "Whoop, robot took my job, time to only spend on things I need to live/not be homeless" survival mode, and they cant (and probably wouldnt try to) tell corporations "NO ROBOTS, HUMANS ONLY!".

I'd be neat to be a fly on the wall in future government meetings about this.
 
2016-10-27 11:37:38 PM  
The current problem with UBI or GBI is that it's being presented as an alternative to welfare spending. Basic income is a good idea only if the social safety net is maintained. Vulnerable people still need to be protected. Yes, I am asking you to think of the children. Also disabled people who can't manage everything on their own.

Market controls would also have to be implemented. UBI would increase demand for necessities such as housing and lead to a corresponding increase in rents. This would make UBI more expensive on society. Handing people cash and saying, "Don't fark it up" is not a complete solution.
 
2016-10-27 11:56:21 PM  

elchip: mjjt: Destructor: mjjt: Universal Basic Income.

Real Socialism!

Semi-socialism. Quasi-socialism. The margarine of Socialism. The Diet Coke of Socialism. Just one calorie... Not socialist enough.

I think Universal Basic Income is an idea whose time has come. Or, figure out what you're going to do with the continuing population of unskilled workers... Or skilled workers who simply aren't needed.

Fairly straightforward choice for the rich - do you want to spend your money on bodyguards and fortified communities, or would you agree to higher taxes to finance a UBI?

Bonus, if you choose Option 2, you have a population who can afford to buy the products that keep you in dollars.

Best solution, of course, is population control. But that's politically impossible.

You mean population control in sense of thinning out the herd. But Orwell suggested popn control through soma. "the warm, the richly coloured, the infinitely friendly world of soma-holiday. How kind, how good-looking, how delightfully amusing every one was! "  "All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects."

Of course we would never be so stupid as to rely on drugs to make the boredom go away .....

http://www.livescience.com/56248-america-opioid-use-epidemic.html

Soma was Huxley's idea.


oh you're right, my bad

mixed up my apocalyptic SF
 
2016-10-28 12:00:47 AM  

MyEnamine: The current problem with UBI or GBI is that it's being presented as an alternative to welfare spending. Basic income is a good idea only if the social safety net is maintained. Vulnerable people still need to be protected. Yes, I am asking you to think of the children. Also disabled people who can't manage everything on their own.

Market controls would also have to be implemented. UBI would increase demand for necessities such as housing and lead to a corresponding increase in rents. This would make UBI more expensive on society. Handing people cash and saying, "Don't fark it up" is not a complete solution.


Yeah, price theory doesn't like Basic Income ideas. I mean, wages are a price, and BI would be a variety of market distorting price support.
 
2016-10-28 1:48:08 AM  

Destructor: mjjt: Universal Basic Income.

Real Socialism!

Semi-socialism. Quasi-socialism. The margarine of Socialism. The Diet Coke of Socialism. Just one calorie... Not socialist enough.

I think Universal Basic Income is an idea whose time has come. Or, figure out what you're going to do with the continuing population of unskilled workers... Or skilled workers who simply aren't needed.

Best solution, of course, is population control. But that's politically impossible.


We've got population control, at least in developed nations. Absent immigration, the US and European populations would be dropping. Japan has little immigration and is gradually disappearing.
 
2016-10-28 3:39:14 AM  
4.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2016-10-28 7:41:49 AM  

itcamefromschenectady: JustToLetYouKnowFriend: There is a time coming very soon, where a huge number of jobs are going away.

It represents a massive change in our national and global economy and we need to start getting ready for it as a nation and a global community.

There has never been a time in human history in which automation did not win out in the end.
Not once.

GBI may be a way to help, maybe not, but something needs to be done.

Soon you may see signs that say
"Humans need not apply"

[YouTube video]

Humans capable of automating and troubleshooting things are not being threatened. Humans incapable of critical thinking or analysis are. Talking about machines vs. humans or rich vs. poor is just ignoring the real divide. We are rapidly approaching a point where not being able to program or debug will be have to be considered a disability, just as if you were not able to learn to walk or talk.


While I agree on some level, it doesn't guarantee everyone a job. Almosy everyone can read or write at some basic level, they would be disabled if they couldn't, but one wouldn't expect the average writer to handle a SCOTUS brief or technical manual.
 
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