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(BBC-US)   The Brexit divide defined in one sentence: 'That's your bloody GDP,' came the shouted response, 'not ours'"   (bbc.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Political party, single market, Conservative Party, new battle lines, United Kingdom, main political parties, party political logic, British politics  
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2779 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Jul 2016 at 3:59 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2016-07-07 2:09:16 PM  
It's like that joke about how the first class part of the plane is going to a different place than the rest of the plane.
 
2016-07-07 2:31:52 PM  
Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."

I consider myself an Anglophile and you'd have to have read a heaping shiat ton of their history to have covered more than I have. That being said, if they choose to follow a path that pisses on what remains of their importance to the world, so be it.

Scotland and Ireland are correct that they should not allow their countries to be punished by the mouth-breathers in England throwing a tantrum, and should move ahead with leaving the UK. I was annoyed with Scotland's first bid at independence as there was no advantage to them or anyone, now I am encouraging them to leave and to do so as quickly as possible. In the meantime both countries should do everything they can to separate their positions from that of their stupid neighbor.

Pretty soon it will be just England, and their relevance in the world will have dropped to nothing more (and probably considerably less, no one will have any reason to support them again anytime soon) than any average Euro country, and that will be marked by historians as the final and permanent end of Britain.
 
2016-07-07 2:53:00 PM  
I'd like to see the members of Parliament step up here and measure the level of Regrexit.
Not sure how, but each member could survey their constituents and use the results to disallow Article 50.
Ah dunno.
Stupid wankers really screwed my 401k.
 
2016-07-07 4:04:06 PM  

vossiewulf: Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."

I consider myself an Anglophile and you'd have to have read a heaping shiat ton of their history to have covered more than I have. That being said, if they choose to follow a path that pisses on what remains of their importance to the world, so be it.

Scotland and Ireland are correct that they should not allow their countries to be punished by the mouth-breathers in England throwing a tantrum, and should move ahead with leaving the UK. I was annoyed with Scotland's first bid at independence as there was no advantage to them or anyone, now I am encouraging them to leave and to do so as quickly as possible. In the meantime both countries should do everything they can to separate their positions from that of their stupid neighbor.

Pretty soon it will be just England, and their relevance in the world will have dropped to nothing more (and probably considerably less, no one will have any reason to support them again anytime soon) than any average Euro country, and that will be marked by historians as the final and permanent end of Britain.


Well Mr Smarty Pants if you were so steeped in British history you'd know that Britain is a geographical expression so unless England Scotland or Wales gets swallowed by the ocean, Great Britain will remain.
 
2016-07-07 4:04:29 PM  
So will the English Premier League become the English Brexit League?

Good luck with your shiatty homegrown players.
 
2016-07-07 4:06:24 PM  
The question of whether the UK politicians want a "hard" Brexit or a "soft" one isn't the only one.  There's also the question of what the remaining EU members will agree to and how much they can get ironed out in the two years between pulling the Article 50 trigger and the bullet actually firing.
 
2016-07-07 4:06:55 PM  
What a hard Brexit may look like:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2016-07-07 4:08:30 PM  

vossiewulf: Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."

I consider myself an Anglophile and you'd have to have read a heaping shiat ton of their history to have covered more than I have. That being said, if they choose to follow a path that pisses on what remains of their importance to the world, so be it.

Scotland and Ireland are correct that they should not allow their countries to be punished by the mouth-breathers in England throwing a tantrum, and should move ahead with leaving the UK. I was annoyed with Scotland's first bid at independence as there was no advantage to them or anyone, now I am encouraging them to leave and to do so as quickly as possible. In the meantime both countries should do everything they can to separate their positions from that of their stupid neighbor.

Pretty soon it will be just England, and their relevance in the world will have dropped to nothing more (and probably considerably less, no one will have any reason to support them again anytime soon) than any average Euro country, and that will be marked by historians as the final and permanent end of Britain.


Wales also voted Brexit, so I guess they'd stay with England.  But Scotland was so overwhelmingly against that I could definitely see them leaving, and considering the damage the Brexiters coming through with even half of their promises on immigration would do to relationships between Northern Ireland and Ireland, I could see them wanting to break away too.
 
2016-07-07 4:08:33 PM  
Too many shadows, whispering voices
Faces on posters, too many choices
If, when, why, what?
How much have you got?
Have you got it, do you get it, if so, how often?
And which do you choose, a hard or soft Brexit?
 
2016-07-07 4:08:46 PM  

Karac: The question of whether the UK politicians want a "hard" Brexit or a "soft" one isn't the only one.  There's also the question of what the remaining EU members will agree to and how much they can get ironed out in the two years between pulling the Article 50 trigger and the bullet actually firing.


The EU is taking the position that no new agreement can be discussed under EU laws until after the Article 50 exit.
 
2016-07-07 4:13:54 PM  

Frank N Stein: vossiewulf: Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."

I consider myself an Anglophile and you'd have to have read a heaping shiat ton of their history to have covered more than I have. That being said, if they choose to follow a path that pisses on what remains of their importance to the world, so be it.

Scotland and Ireland are correct that they should not allow their countries to be punished by the mouth-breathers in England throwing a tantrum, and should move ahead with leaving the UK. I was annoyed with Scotland's first bid at independence as there was no advantage to them or anyone, now I am encouraging them to leave and to do so as quickly as possible. In the meantime both countries should do everything they can to separate their positions from that of their stupid neighbor.

Pretty soon it will be just England, and their relevance in the world will have dropped to nothing more (and probably considerably less, no one will have any reason to support them again anytime soon) than any average Euro country, and that will be marked by historians as the final and permanent end of Britain.

Well Mr Smarty Pants if you were so steeped in British history you'd know that Britain is a geographical expression so unless England Scotland or Wales gets swallowed by the ocean, Great Britain will remain.


"Trump won't destroy America. America is a geographic expression covering two continents and assorted islands."
 
2016-07-07 4:15:12 PM  

Frank N Stein: vossiewulf: Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."

I consider myself an Anglophile and you'd have to have read a heaping shiat ton of their history to have covered more than I have. That being said, if they choose to follow a path that pisses on what remains of their importance to the world, so be it.

Scotland and Ireland are correct that they should not allow their countries to be punished by the mouth-breathers in England throwing a tantrum, and should move ahead with leaving the UK. I was annoyed with Scotland's first bid at independence as there was no advantage to them or anyone, now I am encouraging them to leave and to do so as quickly as possible. In the meantime both countries should do everything they can to separate their positions from that of their stupid neighbor.

Pretty soon it will be just England, and their relevance in the world will have dropped to nothing more (and probably considerably less, no one will have any reason to support them again anytime soon) than any average Euro country, and that will be marked by historians as the final and permanent end of Britain.

Well Mr Smarty Pants if you were so steeped in British history you'd know that Britain is a geographical expression so unless England Scotland or Wales gets swallowed by the ocean, Great Britain will remain.


Considering some of the heated rhetoric about how the EU will punish the UK, I could see it.

"Lex Luthor will destroy one county every 24 hours until you submit and rejoin the EU.  Bwahahahaha!"
 
2016-07-07 4:21:38 PM  

skinink: So will the English Premier League become the English Brexit League?

Good luck with your shiatty homegrown players.


Just like how the NHL and MLB suck donkey balls since they have so few foreign born players and for the VERY few that there are, the hoops that the teams jump through are prohibitive to bringing in any but the absolute best.
 
2016-07-07 4:22:13 PM  

Frank N Stein: vossiewulf: Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."

I consider myself an Anglophile and you'd have to have read a heaping shiat ton of their history to have covered more than I have. That being said, if they choose to follow a path that pisses on what remains of their importance to the world, so be it.

Scotland and Ireland are correct that they should not allow their countries to be punished by the mouth-breathers in England throwing a tantrum, and should move ahead with leaving the UK. I was annoyed with Scotland's first bid at independence as there was no advantage to them or anyone, now I am encouraging them to leave and to do so as quickly as possible. In the meantime both countries should do everything they can to separate their positions from that of their stupid neighbor.

Pretty soon it will be just England, and their relevance in the world will have dropped to nothing more (and probably considerably less, no one will have any reason to support them again anytime soon) than any average Euro country, and that will be marked by historians as the final and permanent end of Britain.

Well Mr Smarty Pants if you were so steeped in British history you'd know that Britain is a geographical expression so unless England Scotland or Wales gets swallowed by the ocean, Great Britain will remain.


You are technically correct except that in the context of the post, Great Britain refers to the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Should Scotland leave, the island of Great Britain would no longer be united under a single government, and the idea of Britain as a nation would be dead.

So, you are technically correct but so very wrong.
 
2016-07-07 4:23:26 PM  

Summercat: Frank N Stein: vossiewulf: Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."

I consider myself an Anglophile and you'd have to have read a heaping shiat ton of their history to have covered more than I have. That being said, if they choose to follow a path that pisses on what remains of their importance to the world, so be it.

Scotland and Ireland are correct that they should not allow their countries to be punished by the mouth-breathers in England throwing a tantrum, and should move ahead with leaving the UK. I was annoyed with Scotland's first bid at independence as there was no advantage to them or anyone, now I am encouraging them to leave and to do so as quickly as possible. In the meantime both countries should do everything they can to separate their positions from that of their stupid neighbor.

Pretty soon it will be just England, and their relevance in the world will have dropped to nothing more (and probably considerably less, no one will have any reason to support them again anytime soon) than any average Euro country, and that will be marked by historians as the final and permanent end of Britain.

Well Mr Smarty Pants if you were so steeped in British history you'd know that Britain is a geographical expression so unless England Scotland or Wales gets swallowed by the ocean, Great Britain will remain.

You are technically correct except that in the context of the post, Great Britain refers to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Should Scotland leave, the island of Great Britain would no longer be united under a single government, and the idea of Britain as a nation would be dead.

So, you are technically correct but so very wrong.


ftfy
 
2016-07-07 4:23:33 PM  

Archidude: Karac: The question of whether the UK politicians want a "hard" Brexit or a "soft" one isn't the only one.  There's also the question of what the remaining EU members will agree to and how much they can get ironed out in the two years between pulling the Article 50 trigger and the bullet actually firing.

The EU is taking the position that no new agreement can be discussed under EU laws until after the Article 50 exit.


Which is the logical thing to do.  Why waste the time talking about a problem that might not actually occur?

"Honey, I think we should talk about who getting custody of the kids."
"What?  Why - do you want a divorce?"
"Well, technically no.  But I think we should start discussing alimony as well."
 
2016-07-07 4:34:43 PM  

Frank N Stein: Summercat: Frank N Stein: vossiewulf: Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."

I consider myself an Anglophile and you'd have to have read a heaping shiat ton of their history to have covered more than I have. That being said, if they choose to follow a path that pisses on what remains of their importance to the world, so be it.

Scotland and Ireland are correct that they should not allow their countries to be punished by the mouth-breathers in England throwing a tantrum, and should move ahead with leaving the UK. I was annoyed with Scotland's first bid at independence as there was no advantage to them or anyone, now I am encouraging them to leave and to do so as quickly as possible. In the meantime both countries should do everything they can to separate their positions from that of their stupid neighbor.

Pretty soon it will be just England, and their relevance in the world will have dropped to nothing more (and probably considerably less, no one will have any reason to support them again anytime soon) than any average Euro country, and that will be marked by historians as the final and permanent end of Britain.

Well Mr Smarty Pants if you were so steeped in British history you'd know that Britain is a geographical expression so unless England Scotland or Wales gets swallowed by the ocean, Great Britain will remain.

You are technically correct except that in the context of the post, Great Britain refers to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Should Scotland leave, the island of Great Britain would no longer be united under a single government, and the idea of Britain as a nation would be dead.

So, you are technically correct but so very wrong.

ftfy


Irrelevant fix, as Great Britain as a geographical feature, which is what your gotchya was, refers to the island containing Scotland, Wales, and England - and as part of the process of dissolution, Northern Ireland (which is on what was once called Little Britain) would also be departing the UK.
 
2016-07-07 4:53:05 PM  

ArkPanda: Frank N Stein: 

Well Mr Smarty Pants if you were so steeped in British history you'd know that Britain is a geographical expression so unless England Scotland or Wales gets swallowed by the ocean, Great Britain will remain.

Considering some of the heated rhetoric about how the EU will punish the UK, I could see it.

"Lex Luthor will destroy one county every 24 hours until you submit and rejoin the EU.  Bwahahahaha!"



Actually, the EU would probably have been quite accommodating had it not been for the tone behind the Leave campaign, and Farage's constant antagonism to the other EU member States.  England did their level-best to burn every bridge in sight - even things that merely looked like bridges - then piss on the ashes.  *And they haven't even left yet!*

Nothing evil about the EU deciding to play hard ball (if they actually do in the end).  England just flipped the bird at all of their neighbors, shiat on their lawns, and called them wankers.  No reason to be more than merely civil in return.
 
2016-07-07 4:56:00 PM  
Vacationing there next year most likely. Please continue to work the exchange rate in my favor.
 
2016-07-07 5:07:57 PM  

Techhell: Just like how the NHL and MLB suck donkey balls since they have so few foreign born players


The NHL is about 25% foreign non-Canadian/American

LInk
 
2016-07-07 5:11:35 PM  

Frank N Stein: Britain is a geographical expression so unless England Scotland or Wales gets swallowed by the ocean, Great Britain will remain.


He said Britain. The UK is also correctly called Britain.

Regardless, everyone knew exactly what he meant.
 
2016-07-07 5:16:32 PM  

vossiewulf: Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."


Well, to be more precise, "end of the United Kingdom".
 
2016-07-07 5:20:29 PM  
I love single sentence solutions. So do most divorce lawyers. I'm confused why the Leave group had to switch from scaring the over 40 crowd into thinking their health care was infected with EU to scaring another group that UK was infected with EU (depicted as Muslims) And to address the cute semantics of island names and GB and UK as solving a problem, that's working out.

How much of the other countries in the EU are quite fed up too. Will Breton leave France. Will Germany split into two or three. I just hope the UK doesn't have to trade in its currency for UK currency. How much more will Putin need to pour into ultra nationalists coffers to get some return?

How the hell did Nigel become a MEP in the first place? There's the problem. If something is so worthless you send Nigel as your representative, you have not nipped the problem in the bud, but you have poured gasoline on the fire.

The US failed at its first attempt under the Articles of Confederation. It took a decade and a half to get 13 colonies to form an actual government.
 
2016-07-07 5:22:11 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Wales also voted Brexit, so I guess they'd stay with England.  But Scotland was so overwhelmingly against that I could definitely see them leaving, and considering the damage the Brexiters coming through with even half of their promises on immigration would do to relationships between Northern Ireland and Ireland, I could see them wanting to break away too.


I'm guessing they won't stick together if Scotland and Ireland leave, particularly after the big jolt of patriotism from their performance in the Euros. That would be extremely stupid of Wales, but if the others vote to exit the UK I think they will too.
 
2016-07-07 5:29:17 PM  
The problem with the whole "class divide" argument for Brexit is that, like wealth, poverty does not trickle down.

If you have enough money to lose a lot to Brexit, you have enough money that you don't have to stick around long enough for that to happen. The rich you despise will just move their money and leave you with the tattered rags. They may lose something, but a dude buying Ferraris for fun on a weekend can afford a 10% hit to his wealth quite a bit more easily than some random schlub in the Midlands.
 
2016-07-07 5:34:14 PM  

vossiewulf: HeartBurnKid: Wales also voted Brexit, so I guess they'd stay with England.  But Scotland was so overwhelmingly against that I could definitely see them leaving, and considering the damage the Brexiters coming through with even half of their promises on immigration would do to relationships between Northern Ireland and Ireland, I could see them wanting to break away too.

I'm guessing they won't stick together if Scotland and Ireland leave, particularly after the big jolt of patriotism from their performance in the Euros. That would be extremely stupid of Wales, but if the others vote to exit the UK I think they will too.


Jesus Christ, dude.

It's fairly plausible that Scotland will have another referendum and vote to leave. It is however, unlikely that Northern Ireland will leave, and there's zero farking chance of Wales leaving. Saying otherwise just demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge of the current political climate in the UK.
 
2016-07-07 5:34:26 PM  

skozlaw: The problem with the whole "class divide" argument for Brexit is that, like wealth, poverty does not trickle down.

If you have enough money to lose a lot to Brexit, you have enough money that you don't have to stick around long enough for that to happen. The rich you despise will just move their money and leave you with the tattered rags. They may lose something, but a dude buying Ferraris for fun on a weekend can afford a 10% hit to his wealth quite a bit more easily than some random schlub in the Midlands.


so... I'm confused.  How is that a class divide argument problem, when you succinctly described a class divide?
 
2016-07-07 5:39:29 PM  

BafflerMeal: so... I'm confused. How is that a class divide argument problem, when you succinctly described a class divide?


I meant using it as a solution not as a causal agent.

You can't fix the problem of the divide by trying to deprive the wealthy of access to their resources on a national level because they can afford to just up and move and take all their wealth with them. Then you're just poor AND the rich people bugged out with all the good stuff.
 
2016-07-07 5:40:35 PM  
Brexit defined in one gif:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2016-07-07 5:42:06 PM  

skozlaw: BafflerMeal: so... I'm confused. How is that a class divide argument problem, when you succinctly described a class divide?

I meant using it as a solution not as a causal agent.

You can't fix the problem of the divide by trying to deprive the wealthy of access to their resources on a national level because they can afford to just up and move and take all their wealth with them. Then you're just poor AND the rich people bugged out with all the good stuff.


Gotcha.
 
2016-07-07 5:43:37 PM  
This is the standard left-wing argument against inequality: a rising GDP doesn't matter if most citizens don't experience any benefit from it, so voters shouldn't care if a policy boosts/harms the economy.

It's an argument resistant to disproof.  Somewhere in Venezuela, an Occupy Caracas activist is reassuring himself that, as bad as starving to death is, he can die happy knowing that rich Venezuelans lost a higher percentage of their wealth.
 
2016-07-07 5:44:02 PM  

Gunther: zero farking chance of Wales leaving

When slaves revolt and form their own state you get Liberia. And later you get an Ebola epidemic.
 
2016-07-07 5:46:10 PM  

skozlaw: BafflerMeal: so... I'm confused. How is that a class divide argument problem, when you succinctly described a class divide?

I meant using it as a solution not as a causal agent.

You can't fix the problem of the divide by trying to deprive the wealthy of access to their resources on a national level because they can afford to just up and move and take all their wealth with them. Then you're just poor AND the rich people bugged out with all the good stuff.


Since in this particular case, a major part of the good stuff is housing, I'm not sure that applies.

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/07/disunited-ki​n​gdom-fact-of-the-day.html

The property values will go away, but at the end of the day, it's like the Rust Belt.

Yes, your property values dropped, but that just means you can afford an aging 3BR mansion instead of a council flat.
 
2016-07-07 5:46:36 PM  

pkjun: Frank N Stein: vossiewulf: Brexit in one sentence: "end of Britain."

I consider myself an Anglophile and you'd have to have read a heaping shiat ton of their history to have covered more than I have. That being said, if they choose to follow a path that pisses on what remains of their importance to the world, so be it.

Scotland and Ireland are correct that they should not allow their countries to be punished by the mouth-breathers in England throwing a tantrum, and should move ahead with leaving the UK. I was annoyed with Scotland's first bid at independence as there was no advantage to them or anyone, now I am encouraging them to leave and to do so as quickly as possible. In the meantime both countries should do everything they can to separate their positions from that of their stupid neighbor.

Pretty soon it will be just England, and their relevance in the world will have dropped to nothing more (and probably considerably less, no one will have any reason to support them again anytime soon) than any average Euro country, and that will be marked by historians as the final and permanent end of Britain.

Well Mr Smarty Pants if you were so steeped in British history you'd know that Britain is a geographical expression so unless England Scotland or Wales gets swallowed by the ocean, Great Britain will remain.

"Butt Trumpet won't destroy America. America is a geographic expression covering two continents and assorted islands."


Bugs Bunny Cuts Florida Loose
Youtube xiTM2HQ0g98
 
2016-07-07 5:47:14 PM  

BafflerMeal: skozlaw: The problem with the whole "class divide" argument for Brexit is that, like wealth, poverty does not trickle down.

If you have enough money to lose a lot to Brexit, you have enough money that you don't have to stick around long enough for that to happen. The rich you despise will just move their money and leave you with the tattered rags. They may lose something, but a dude buying Ferraris for fun on a weekend can afford a 10% hit to his wealth quite a bit more easily than some random schlub in the Midlands.

so... I'm confused.  How is that a class divide argument problem, when you succinctly described a class divide?


He just made the fallacious argument that poor people are going to take the same financial hit that rich people are. Some schlub making £50k will now make £45k, while a rich dude making £1000k will only make £900k. That's simply not true.

The Great Recession showed that rich people will suffer the majority of short term loss, but also reap the vast vast majority of long term gains. A rich person will take a 30% dip to a poor person's 2-5%, but they'll also get a 50% comeback compared to a poor person's 0% comeback.
 
2016-07-07 5:48:30 PM  

Summercat: You are technically correct except that in the context of the post, Great Britain refers to the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Should Scotland leave, the island of Great Britain would no longer be united under a single government, and the idea of Britain as a nation would be dead.


Not so much a Great Britain as an Ordinary Britain. Perhaps a Mostly OK Britain or a Middling Britain or a Mediocre Britain, Undistinguished Britain, Garden Variety Britain, No Great Shakes Britain, Tolerable Britain, Your Average Britain on the Street, Run of the Mill Britain, Matter of Course Britain, All Things Considered a Fairly Passable Britain Under the Circumstances. And of course: Airstrip One.
 
2016-07-07 5:52:55 PM  
Gunther:
It's fairly plausible that Scotland will have another referendum and vote to leave. It is however, unlikely that Northern Ireland will leave, and there's zero farking chance of Wales leaving. Saying otherwise just demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge of the current political climate in the UK.

Scotland is a net drain on the UK economy. I can understand getting so upset at your sugar daddy that you'd leave, but I really doubt the EU is looking for another dependency, nor would the EU treat Scotland with any more respect than the Scots get from the UK, assuming Spain permits them entry.

For what it's worth, I'm also for Scottish independence if they want it (Scexit? Like from the Dark Crystal?) - I don't think autarky and free association are the stupidest ideas out there. Whatever the consequences of Brexit are, Scexit would be more painful for the Scots.
 
2016-07-07 6:01:42 PM  
There will be quite literally thousands of details to negotiate, which will occupy civil servants, who'll have to be hastily recruited, for years.

Fark that. The EU's not going to give you "years." The question of "hard or soft Brexit" may end up answered for you by the rest of the EU if you don't get your asses moving.

You want to be knuckle-draggers and fools? Fine. The rest of Europe isn't going to pay for your stupidity. They're going to do their best to ensure that you don't really have a choice - if you decide to drag your heels on this, the rest of the EU is going to enact economic and trade policies that will essentially decide for you.
 
2016-07-07 6:08:59 PM  
KerplunkSploosh: Whatever the consequences of Brexit are, Scexit would be more painful for the Scots.

Yup, I'd give them one in four odds of actually going ahead with it. By the time another referendum is arranged they'll have had a couple of years to calm down and they'll be thinking about what outcome is in their best interest rather than what outcome will most annoy England. The SNP can't bullshiat them with talk about how the oil reserves are gonna pay for everything anymore.

...But a 25% chance of leaving is still a lot higher than the odds of NI leaving and a hell of a lot higher than the odds of Wales leaving. Wales is about as likely to vote for independence as Cornwall is.
 
2016-07-07 6:19:32 PM  

FormlessOne: if you decide to drag your heels on this, the rest of the EU is going to enact economic and trade policies that will essentially decide for you.


The EU is not going to enact economic penalties against a member nation in an attempt to force it out. Such policies would be a) a huge overreach of power, b) fought against stridently by every EU country that has significant trade with the UK and c) drastically unpopular (who do you think hates the UK enough that they'd be willing to hurt their own economy just to hurt the UK's more?). If they did that damn near every member state would be clamoring for their own Exit.
 
2016-07-07 6:25:14 PM  

meyerkev: Yes, your property values dropped, but that just means you can afford an aging 3BR mansion instead of a council flat.


Yay!! Just like Detroit!!

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2016-07-07 6:25:49 PM  

Captain Dan: This is the standard left-wing argument against inequality: a rising GDP doesn't matter if most citizens don't experience any benefit from it, so voters shouldn't care if a policy boosts/harms the economy.

It's an argument resistant to disproof.  Somewhere in Venezuela, an Occupy Caracas activist is reassuring himself that, as bad as starving to death is, he can die happy knowing that rich Venezuelans lost a higher percentage of their wealth.


Why should someone who is being shiat on care if the person shiatting on them has a bad time? If you want the working class to vote for your policies, you have to make their life better.

This is endlessly predictable. A society that only works for the rich and their sycophants in the upper middle class (salary class) is a society doomed to decline and instability.
 
2016-07-07 6:26:08 PM  

Gunther: FormlessOne: if you decide to drag your heels on this, the rest of the EU is going to enact economic and trade policies that will essentially decide for you.

The EU is not going to enact economic penalties against a member nation in an attempt to force it out. Such policies would be a) a huge overreach of power, b) fought against stridently by every EU country that has significant trade with the UK and c) drastically unpopular (who do you think hates the UK enough that they'd be willing to hurt their own economy just to hurt the UK's more?). If they did that damn near every member state would be clamoring for their own Exit.


I'm pretty sure that some of the more aggressive posters on this topic are writing about their own relationship exit experiences.
 
2016-07-07 6:28:18 PM  

Gunther: The EU is not going to enact economic penalties against a member nation in an attempt to force it out.


The UK voted for its own economic penalties as a result of voting to leave.

The UK cannot leave the EU and expect to retain an economic status quo.
 
2016-07-07 6:28:25 PM  

Techhell: skinink: So will the English Premier League become the English Brexit League?

Good luck with your shiatty homegrown players.

Just like how the NHL and MLB suck donkey balls since they have so few foreign born players and for the VERY few that there are, the hoops that the teams jump through are prohibitive to bringing in any but the absolute best.


I...uh........would you care to elaborate?
 
2016-07-07 6:37:48 PM  

Gunther: vossiewulf: HeartBurnKid: Wales also voted Brexit, so I guess they'd stay with England.  But Scotland was so overwhelmingly against that I could definitely see them leaving, and considering the damage the Brexiters coming through with even half of their promises on immigration would do to relationships between Northern Ireland and Ireland, I could see them wanting to break away too.

I'm guessing they won't stick together if Scotland and Ireland leave, particularly after the big jolt of patriotism from their performance in the Euros. That would be extremely stupid of Wales, but if the others vote to exit the UK I think they will too.

Jesus Christ, dude.

It's fairly plausible that Scotland will have another referendum and vote to leave. It is however, unlikely that Northern Ireland will leave, and there's zero farking chance of Wales leaving. Saying otherwise just demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge of the current political climate in the UK.


You don't think Northern Ireland will leave, despite the fact that the Brexit essentially closed the border between northern Ireland and Ireland? Despite the fact that an open border was an explicit clause of the treaty that ended the Troubles? I mean, even if the border stays open, and the treaty is renegotiated to remain viable, the Brits just essentially told the people of northern Ireland to fark off, and you think they aren't going to push for independence?
 
2016-07-07 6:38:58 PM  

iron de havilland: Gunther: The EU is not going to enact economic penalties against a member nation in an attempt to force it out.

The UK voted for its own economic penalties as a result of voting to leave.

The UK cannot leave the EU and expect to retain an economic status quo.


That's literally the opposite of what we're talking about here, though. I'm not saying "The UK can leave without penalty", I'm saying "The EU can't penalize them for NOT leaving".

I mean, let's assume the UK manages to stall the Brexit until the next election, then a party running a pro-Remain campaign wins (which is what I'm hoping for, incidentally). Do you think the EU is going to throw a tantrum and hurt their own economies just to force the UK out? When they didn't even want the UK to leave in the first freakin' place?
 
2016-07-07 6:49:29 PM  
Y'know, I was very much in favor of Remain winning, but ever since the referendum all I seem to be posting in these threads is variations on; "Calm the fark down, this doesn't mean the sky is falling. Quit predicting the farking apocalypse just because we lost, Jesus Christ guys".

Lusiphur: You don't think Northern Ireland will leave, despite the fact that the Brexit essentially closed the border between northern Ireland and Ireland?


If the UK does end up leaving the EU, part of the negotiations will include keeping the border open in Ireland.

Lusiphur: the Brits just essentially told the people of northern Ireland to fark off, and you think they aren't going to push for independence?


NI was split on the Brexit vote (44% to 55%). I hardly think a 9% difference in the votes (the difference between how they voted and how the English voted) is proof that this issue is of such towering importance that NI is going to leave the UK over it.
 
2016-07-07 6:49:57 PM  

jaytkay: meyerkev: Yes, your property values dropped, but that just means you can afford an aging 3BR mansion instead of a council flat.

Yay!! Just like Detroit!!

[img.fark.net image 760x600]


No, that's the LONG-term failure mode here, when the housing stock rots out from underneath the owners.  Which is bad.

But the Medium-term failure mode is Farmington.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Farmington-MI/24577707_zpid/5199​5​_rid/3-_beds/2-_baths/42.476829,-83.37033,42.446657,-83.397024_rect/14​_zm/0_mmm/

$155K for 1200 sq. ft. with matching basement on a quarter acre.

That's... not bad.
 
2016-07-07 6:53:08 PM  

Gunther: Lusiphur: You don't think Northern Ireland will leave, despite the fact that the Brexit essentially closed the border between northern Ireland and Ireland?

If the UK does end up leaving the EU, part of the negotiations will include keeping the border open in Ireland.


Then there will be no control over immigration, which means another Brexit promise is a lie.
 
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