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(The Stack)   This is what happens when you replace a two-buck light switch with a computer   (thestack.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Internet Protocol, innovative Android-based room, exploitable OS-based technology, open source deployment, protocol analyser Wireshark, Python-based PyModbus framework, IP address, room number  
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14998 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2016 at 10:56 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2016-03-12 9:31:04 AM  
He ordered a pizza for everyone to eat.
 
2016-03-12 11:00:18 AM  
He should have opened all the curtains in every room at 7:15AM to wake up all the drunks simultaneously.
 
2016-03-12 11:00:21 AM  
"Beat that!"

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2016-03-12 11:04:41 AM  
It's stuff like this that makes me crack up when people try and extol the virtues of using "smart" thermostats and house controls.  "Yay, make an overly complex, expensive system that can be hacked fairly easily."  For some  reason, some people don't have a problem with that.  "Why pay $50 for a thermostat that will last 20 years, when you can pay $200 for one that will last 6 months!"
 
2016-03-12 11:06:38 AM  
WAY too much time on his hands.
 
2016-03-12 11:08:01 AM  
crow202.orgView Full Size
 
2016-03-12 11:08:02 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: "Beat that!"

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 329x153]


It's funny because with curtain and lighting controls for the entire hotel, he literally could have done something like that.
 
2016-03-12 11:10:56 AM  

Bonzo_1116: He should have opened all the curtains in every room at 7:15AM to wake up all the drunks simultaneously.


Wait, you have to be a drunkard to want to sleep past 7:00 AM?
 
2016-03-12 11:13:12 AM  

That Guy What Stole the Bacon: Bonzo_1116: He should have opened all the curtains in every room at 7:15AM to wake up all the drunks simultaneously.

Wait, you have to be a drunkard to want to sleep past 7:00 AM?


No, you have to be drunk to survive a developers conference.
 
2016-03-12 11:13:42 AM  
My handyman home improvement project for this weekend includes replacing a light switch (and a few receptacles), so I'm really getting a kick charge out of this headline.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2016-03-12 11:14:04 AM  
Seems like a great prank to play on your coworker that believes in ghosts.
 
2016-03-12 11:15:02 AM  
So basically one dip switch tried to replace another.
 
2016-03-12 11:15:59 AM  
And that's why I don't like Nest.
 
2016-03-12 11:17:03 AM  
>> Since he would not be able to find out the results of tampering with other residents' rooms except by causing great mischief,

Right, yeah. Discover a huge security hole and just leave it alone. Sure.

He had zero friends at the same conference he could have experimented with?
 
2016-03-12 11:17:59 AM  
The "scary" tag could have been used, too.

Anything hackable is also observable.  Why would I want others to know deep details about, say, what room I'm in at any given time?

And depending upon what model tablets they installed, there could be camera issues as well.
 
2016-03-12 11:20:02 AM  
As an appliance repair tech, I am shuddering over the Internet of things. One of my buddies got a call on a Samsung refer the other day: "Refrigerator won't connect to the Internet" so it's coming my way.

How long is it going to be before bored Eastern Europeans decide to fark around with someone's internet connected dryer just because? Or someone's internet connected refrigerator? Just exactly how does the tech isolate between a hacking flaw and a board flaw out in the field?
 
2016-03-12 11:31:44 AM  
I get the internet of things for a hotel. Given hundreds or rooms, thousands of lights, high cost of heating and cooling and most rooms being vacant for 90% of the day, you could probably increase your energy efficiency by having central control of the common energy systems. I still don't get the usefullnes for the average home owner
 
2016-03-12 11:37:16 AM  

DanInKansas: How long is it going to be before bored Eastern Europeans decide to fark around with someone's internet connected dryer just because? Or someone's internet connected refrigerator? Just exactly how does the tech isolate between a hacking flaw and a board flaw out in the field?


I'm set. I've air-gapped my house.
 
2016-03-12 11:38:52 AM  
I thought those hotel mini-fridges were expensive before, but just wait until they discover food porn on the internet.
 
2016-03-12 11:40:19 AM  
Youtube of playing pong with the elevators or it didn't happen.
 
2016-03-12 11:40:44 AM  

Manfred J. Hattan: That Guy What Stole the Bacon: Bonzo_1116: He should have opened all the curtains in every room at 7:15AM to wake up all the drunks simultaneously.

Wait, you have to be a drunkard to want to sleep past 7:00 AM?

No, you have to be drunk to survive a developers conference.


Touché...
 
2016-03-12 11:45:06 AM  

lordargent: My handyman home improvement project for this weekend includes replacing a light switch (and a few receptacles), so I'm really getting a kick charge out of this headline.
[img.fark.net image 800x450]


I just did that too! You should have bought the ten-pack of receptacles, costs about the same as 4 or 5 individual ones.
 
2016-03-12 11:46:06 AM  
a long time ago we were traveling through florida and georgia.
we stayed at a cheap one story hotel.
when checking in they guy mumbeled the room number and gave us a TV remote.
i thought that they were individual  and thought that was weird.
then i looked at the remote and found no markings
and realized they were the same....
they were ALL THE SAME.
as i got the lugage i would change channels and volume on every room.
one guy was sitting on his bed with the door open and was yelling at his dog
"stop changing the channel".
after leaving i told the wife why i needed the remote to go to the car, she was not amused.
i liked it.
 
2016-03-12 11:47:56 AM  
Garrett found that the environmental system was governed over TCP by the commonly-used Modbus [PDF] protocol, developed by Modicon (now Schneider Electric) in 1979. Garrett then used the Python-based PyModbus framework to begin controlling his own room lights, and to make his own curtains open and close.

Every time I see the name Schneider Electric I think their electricians would look like this guy:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2016-03-12 11:48:46 AM  

tlchwi02: I get the internet of things for a hotel. Given hundreds or rooms, thousands of lights, high cost of heating and cooling and most rooms being vacant for 90% of the day, you could probably increase your energy efficiency by having central control of the common energy systems. I still don't get the usefullnes for the average home owner


Allow me...

My Nest paid for itself in 3 months. Literally. Every hot day after that, put money back in my pocket. I have the Protects, too. They talk to the Nest. If there is a fire, they'll shut the furnace blowers off.

I have the Protects set to text a neighbor for carbon monoxide alerts (using IFTTT) so someone could drag our stoned asses out of the house in that event.

I also have a Wemo wall switch, which turns my porch lights on not at a specific time, but at sundown.
Turns them back off after we go to bed.

Hue lights everywhere, most on schedules. All Siri controlled. I get up early and really hate descending into a pitch black downstairs and waking up my kid with the upstairs hallway bright lights.

I also have a smart lock. I can, and have, granted emergency keys to friends and family from miles away. I am sure many here will flip out about zomg security. However, consider that locks are mostly security theater. The lock is a convenience for me. You can hack my front door, which sports a 2x3 pane of glass, with a hammer.

All of this stuff lives on its own network.
 
2016-03-12 11:52:28 AM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: Garrett found that the environmental system was governed over TCP by the commonly-used Modbus [PDF] protocol, developed by Modicon (now Schneider Electric) in 1979. Garrett then used the Python-based PyModbus framework to begin controlling his own room lights, and to make his own curtains open and close.

Every time I see the name Schneider Electric I think their electricians would look like this guy:

[img.fark.net image 362x325]


Don't ALL electricians look like that guy?!
 
2016-03-12 12:04:54 PM  

sunderland56: >> Since he would not be able to find out the results of tampering with other residents' rooms except by causing great mischief,

Right, yeah. Discover a huge security hole and just leave it alone. Sure.

He had zero friends at the same conference he could have experimented with?


He is a developer. Of course he doesn't have any friends.
 
2016-03-12 12:06:53 PM  

ketkarsa: It's stuff like this that makes me crack up when people try and extol the virtues of using "smart" thermostats and house controls.  "Yay, make an overly complex, expensive system that can be hacked fairly easily."  For some  reason, some people don't have a problem with that.  "Why pay $50 for a thermostat that will last 20 years, when you can pay $200 for one that will last 6 months!"


Why not? People rush out all the time to buy vehicles that have more and more computers controlling everything.

It's not about what we need. it never has been.


m57lyra: llow me...
My Nest paid for itself in 3 months. Literally. Every hot day after that, put money back in my pocket. I have the Protects, too. They talk to the Nest. If there is a fire, they'll shut the furnace blowers off.
I have the Protects set to text a neighbor for carbon monoxide alerts (using IFTTT) so someone could drag our stoned asses out of the house in that event.
I also have a Wemo wall switch, which turns my porch lights on not at a specific time, but at sundown.
Turns them back off after we go to bed.
Hue lights everywhere, most on schedules. All Siri controlled. I get up early and really hate descending into a pitch black downstairs and waking up my kid with the upstairs hallway bright lights.
I also have a smart lock. I can, and have, granted emergency keys to friends and family from miles away. I am sure many here will flip out about zomg security. However, consider that locks are mostly security theater. The lock is a convenience for me. You can hack my front door, which sports a 2x3 pane of glass, with a hammer.
All of this stuff lives on its own network.


I totally get you. Almost as much as this

He used two Ethernet adaptors to set up a transparent bridge, interposing his own computer between the devices and the host system, and used the network protocol analyser Wireshark to monitor activity.
android-hotel-light-switch-systemGarrett found that the environmental system was governed over TCP by the commonly-used Modbus [PDF] protocol, developed by Modicon (now Schneider Electric) in 1979. Garrett then used the Python-based PyModbus framework to begin controlling his own room lights, and to make his own curtains open and close.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2016-03-12 12:08:18 PM  
I'm a licensed hvac tech and would never use Nest. If you want to turn your heat down automatically you can use outdoor temp sensors combined with set programming. If you are dead set on complicating a simple thermostat with the Internet buy a Honeywell.
 
2016-03-12 12:26:10 PM  

cryinoutloud: He used two Ethernet adaptors to set up a transparent bridge, interposing his own computer between the devices and the host system, and used the network protocol analyser Wireshark to monitor activity.
android-hotel-light-switch-systemGarrett found that the environmental system was governed over TCP by the commonly-used Modbus [PDF] protocol, developed by Modicon (now Schneider Electric) in 1979. Garrett then used the Python-based PyModbus framework to begin controlling his own room lights, and to make his own curtains open and close.

img.fark.net


"It says sprocket, not socket!"

plumbers joke steve martin
Youtube yX27AfOEYGc
 
2016-03-12 12:37:41 PM  

grinding_journalist: DanInKansas: How long is it going to be before bored Eastern Europeans decide to fark around with someone's internet connected dryer just because? Or someone's internet connected refrigerator? Just exactly how does the tech isolate between a hacking flaw and a board flaw out in the field?

I'm set. I've air-gapped my house.


the new euphemism for "spent all my 'lectric bill money on hookers and blow"
 
2016-03-12 12:38:21 PM  

grinding_journalist:  I've air-gapped my house.


Fark is not your personal erotica site
 
2016-03-12 1:11:38 PM  

m57lyra: tlchwi02: I get the internet of things for a hotel. Given hundreds or rooms, thousands of lights, high cost of heating and cooling and most rooms being vacant for 90% of the day, you could probably increase your energy efficiency by having central control of the common energy systems. I still don't get the usefullnes for the average home owner

Allow me...

My Nest paid for itself in 3 months. Literally. Every hot day after that, put money back in my pocket. I have the Protects, too. They talk to the Nest. If there is a fire, they'll shut the furnace blowers off.

I have the Protects set to text a neighbor for carbon monoxide alerts (using IFTTT) so someone could drag our stoned asses out of the house in that event.

I also have a Wemo wall switch, which turns my porch lights on not at a specific time, but at sundown.
Turns them back off after we go to bed.

Hue lights everywhere, most on schedules. All Siri controlled. I get up early and really hate descending into a pitch black downstairs and waking up my kid with the upstairs hallway bright lights.

I also have a smart lock. I can, and have, granted emergency keys to friends and family from miles away. I am sure many here will flip out about zomg security. However, consider that locks are mostly security theater. The lock is a convenience for me. You can hack my front door, which sports a 2x3 pane of glass, with a hammer.

All of this stuff lives on its own network.


And now Google knows when you are home and when you are not.
 
2016-03-12 1:13:18 PM  

PScooter63: The "scary" tag could have been used, too.
Anything hackable is also observable.  Why would I want others to know deep details about, say, what room I'm in at any given time?
And depending upon what model tablets they installed, there could be camera issues as well.


Good point about the cameras, but I don't follow your reasoning on "what room am I in?".

Maybe you can show me how you'd work an example:
lights are on in rooms A and B, off in C.
blinds are open in A, closed in B and C.
Where's PScooter63?
 
2016-03-12 1:23:30 PM  
Wonder who sold the hotel on a tablet in every room...seems like a throwback

img.fark.netView Full Size

Yeah..that worked out well
 
2016-03-12 1:33:47 PM  
Good thing he wasn't Erin Andrews' stalker. Turn up lights, open curtains to share with everyone...
 
2016-03-12 1:33:59 PM  

desertfool: m57lyra: tlchwi02: I get the internet of things for a hotel. Given hundreds or rooms, thousands of lights, high cost of heating and cooling and most rooms being vacant for 90% of the day, you could probably increase your energy efficiency by having central control of the common energy systems. I still don't get the usefullnes for the average home owner

Allow me...

My Nest paid for itself in 3 months. Literally. Every hot day after that, put money back in my pocket. I have the Protects, too. They talk to the Nest. If there is a fire, they'll shut the furnace blowers off.

I have the Protects set to text a neighbor for carbon monoxide alerts (using IFTTT) so someone could drag our stoned asses out of the house in that event.

I also have a Wemo wall switch, which turns my porch lights on not at a specific time, but at sundown.
Turns them back off after we go to bed.

Hue lights everywhere, most on schedules. All Siri controlled. I get up early and really hate descending into a pitch black downstairs and waking up my kid with the upstairs hallway bright lights.

I also have a smart lock. I can, and have, granted emergency keys to friends and family from miles away. I am sure many here will flip out about zomg security. However, consider that locks are mostly security theater. The lock is a convenience for me. You can hack my front door, which sports a 2x3 pane of glass, with a hammer.

All of this stuff lives on its own network.

And now Google knows when you are home and when you are not.


You think it takes a thermostat to know this?

When you google something... Google knows who you are even if you aren't logged in, because cookies, and that search request comes with location data via the device that you are using.
 
2016-03-12 1:38:41 PM  

RTOGUY: I'm a licensed hvac tech and would never use Nest. If you want to turn your heat down automatically you can use outdoor temp sensors combined with set programming. If you are dead set on complicating a simple thermostat with the Internet buy a Honeywell.


Yup. Also, I'm a building automation engineer so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies...
 
2016-03-12 1:41:16 PM  

lordargent: My handyman home improvement project for this weekend includes replacing a light switch (and a few receptacles), so I'm really getting a kick charge out of this headline.
[img.fark.net image 800x450]


psst, you forgot something:
thegreenhead.comView Full Size
 
2016-03-12 1:43:55 PM  
On the other hand, I tried replacing the simple three-way switches in my hallway - you know, the kind where there's one switch on each end of the hall.

First one swaps out no problem. Second one and...why is the new switch now also controlling the lights in my son's room and the attic?
 
2016-03-12 1:51:35 PM  
The guy in room 1408 didn't think this was cool at all!
 
2016-03-12 1:53:37 PM  

Gulper Eel: On the other hand, I tried replacing the simple three-way switches in my hallway - you know, the kind where there's one switch on each end of the hall.

First one swaps out no problem. Second one and...why is the new switch now also controlling the lights in my son's room and the attic?


You should hire people to do electrical work because you are not good at it
 
2016-03-12 1:56:05 PM  

chitownmike: Gulper Eel: On the other hand, I tried replacing the simple three-way switches in my hallway - you know, the kind where there's one switch on each end of the hall.

First one swaps out no problem. Second one and...why is the new switch now also controlling the lights in my son's room and the attic?

You should hire people to do electrical work because you are not good at it


Yup, it's a common problem.
 
2016-03-12 2:06:48 PM  

chitownmike: Gulper Eel: On the other hand, I tried replacing the simple three-way switches in my hallway - you know, the kind where there's one switch on each end of the hall.

First one swaps out no problem. Second one and...why is the new switch now also controlling the lights in my son's room and the attic?


You should hire people to do electrical work because you are not good at it


Or a previous owner DIY'd something strange (it's a mid-80's house) and I had the misfortune to expose it.

I stick to the simple stuff like swapping out switches and light fixtures, at which I'm good enough that this situation has never come up before...but seeing as I need other more involved electrical work done in the fairly near future, for this particular weirdness I'll call the electrician.
 
2016-03-12 2:39:41 PM  

onecrazylay: The guy in room 1408 didn't think this was cool at all!


The couple in room 404 are still missing.
 
2016-03-12 3:02:42 PM  

Manfred J. Hattan: That Guy What Stole the Bacon: Bonzo_1116: He should have opened all the curtains in every room at 7:15AM to wake up all the drunks simultaneously.

Wait, you have to be a drunkard to want to sleep past 7:00 AM?

No, you have to be drunk to survive a developers conference.


Developer's conference?  Awake and at the convention by 7AM, drunk out of necessity.

Outdoor furry convention?  Awake at 7AM because it's summer so it's starting to get too warm for the tent, drunk because still drinking five hours earlier.

Either way, you either need to keep the ball rolling and/or have a pound of eggs and bacon and two or three quarts of water or you're going to be murdered by the sound of your own tinnitus at the devcon or the midday sun at the furcon by 10.
 
2016-03-12 3:40:23 PM  

m57lyra: tlchwi02: I get the internet of things for a hotel. Given hundreds or rooms, thousands of lights, high cost of heating and cooling and most rooms being vacant for 90% of the day, you could probably increase your energy efficiency by having central control of the common energy systems. I still don't get the usefullnes for the average home owner

Allow me...

My Nest paid for itself in 3 months. Literally. Every hot day after that, put money back in my pocket. I have the Protects, too. They talk to the Nest. If there is a fire, they'll shut the furnace blowers off.

I have the Protects set to text a neighbor for carbon monoxide alerts (using IFTTT) so someone could drag our stoned asses out of the house in that event.

I also have a Wemo wall switch, which turns my porch lights on not at a specific time, but at sundown.
Turns them back off after we go to bed.

Hue lights everywhere, most on schedules. All Siri controlled. I get up early and really hate descending into a pitch black downstairs and waking up my kid with the upstairs hallway bright lights.

I also have a smart lock. I can, and have, granted emergency keys to friends and family from miles away. I am sure many here will flip out about zomg security. However, consider that locks are mostly security theater. The lock is a convenience for me. You can hack my front door, which sports a 2x3 pane of glass, with a hammer.

All of this stuff lives on its own network.


Just got a Protect.  Want to replace the rest of my detectors with them, too.  Looked at the Nest but not sure if it's worth it with our ancient forced hot water baseboards.    And lights are on the todo list for when I have time to investigate them.
 
2016-03-12 3:57:25 PM  

Gulper Eel: Or a previous owner DIY'd something strange (it's a mid-80's house) and I had the misfortune to expose it.
I stick to the simple stuff like swapping out switches and light fixtures, at which I'm good enough that this situation has never come up before...but seeing as I need other more involved electrical work done in the fairly near future, for this particular weirdness I'll call the electrician.


I did that once in a trailer. Turns out that the new switch was a different kind of wire, and that old trailer had some old crappy wiring in it that couldn't work off the new switch. I ended up with all kinds of confusing lights. I just had to put the old switch back in, because I wasn't going to rewire my entire crappy trailer.

Electricity is weird.
 
2016-03-12 4:41:40 PM  
Hack Patooey:

I can share my experiences:

I initially stayed away from Hue because I resented the idea of a single-purpose bridge and didn't like that the reasonably developed multipurpose bridges were tied to particular big box stores.

I tried 2 lifx bulbs. The app is fantastic. The bulbs are great. Ultimately though we need light switches and I don't want to dump a lot of money on arduinis in altoids tins to accomplish this.

I also tried a couple of Wemo plugs. The app again was great but again, I need switches and also, that a lot of money for in the end is a non-dimming non color changing bulb.

Philips has switches, and new bridge has Siri integration, and the bulb prices went down.

Hope that gives you a head start.
 
2016-03-12 4:50:21 PM  
Arduinos freaking autocorrect
 
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