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(Vox)   Sure you might think the North Korean stories of executing people with anti-aircraft guns is cray cray but these guys are for real I tells ya. Straight up   (vox.com) divider line
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10843 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2015 at 10:04 AM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2015-05-14 10:53:49 AM  

cgraves67: It would probably still work against helicopters. Briefly. Before it got hit by a Hellfire missile.


They have something of a strong point in that they have no tracking signature.  You don't know that you're being targeted until the bullets start hitting.  I spent a lot of time on the Janes Apache simulator (one of the great PC simulators ever), and they were a continuous pain because of that.

Yes, I know that doesn't make me a pilot.
 
2015-05-14 10:54:24 AM  

somedude210: berylman: With the way those quad barrels are spaced out you'd really only get shot by 1 or 2 rounds out of 4 unless you are exceptionally girthy.  Maybe they could be angled in a bit just for this purpose.  I mean if you are going to go for overkill at least be efficient.

that may be why the targets are 100 yards away, that may be the minimum distance for the focal point of all 4 barrels converging.


...or they could be rigging it so that only one barrel is actually shooting.
 
2015-05-14 10:55:20 AM  

jshine: ...or they could be rigging it so that only one barrel is actually shooting.


That's another thought. But if we want to go crazy, let's have all 4 converge on a relatively small area
 
2015-05-14 10:56:44 AM  
Do those things shoot 50 cal or do they use cannon and what's the difference?
 
2015-05-14 10:56:55 AM  

Fubegra: [fubegra.net image 660x440]


Well that's a shootin'.
 
2015-05-14 10:57:24 AM  
Yet he is not cruel enough to declaw his cats.
 
2015-05-14 10:57:26 AM  

somedude210: jshine: ...or they could be rigging it so that only one barrel is actually shooting.

That's another thought. But if we want to go crazy, let's have all 4 converge on a relatively small area


Hey, man...it's good enough for Han Solo.
 
2015-05-14 10:59:04 AM  

Fizpez: nekom: pottie: I guess if you must be executed, that is a pretty cool way to go

Well it'd be over quick at least.

That was my thought as well.... lets just say you were most definitely going to be executed - instantly blasted to little pieces is a hell of a lot better than some other things I could think of - even some things very similar.  Couple of a-holes with rifles could botch the job and you're still bleeding out and suffering while the bulldozer is pushing dirt over you.


Also probably better than a heart attack ack ack ack ack.
 
2015-05-14 11:00:48 AM  
This picture is screaming for a caption contest.
cdn0.vox-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2015-05-14 11:03:24 AM  
FullMetalPanda:

Iraq didn't have any problems shooting down an entire battalion of Apaches during the Iraq invasion with those.

i134.photobucket.comView Full Size





Link

129 helicopters and 24 fixed-wing aircraft have been reported by media to be lost in Iraq since the 2003 invasion till February 2009. 46 of these incidents have been attributed to hostile fire such as anti-aircraft artillery and surface-to-air missiles.

That hardly constitutes a battalion.
 
2015-05-14 11:04:50 AM  
I'd bet that this farking kid never read any history books.
 
2015-05-14 11:09:01 AM  
We totally have a single satellite image with a 1-meter resolution, but can tell that these are people, and those things are totally ZPU-4s.  Believe us.

/Skeptical Hack is skeptical
 
2015-05-14 11:12:09 AM  

tonguedepressor: Do those things shoot 50 cal or do they use cannon and what's the difference?


It probably doesn't use a 50 cal. It's Soviet-sourced, and they prefer metric-sized ammo.

Automatic cannon use explosive or armor piercing shells instead of inert kinetic slugs like a machine gun.
 
2015-05-14 11:16:32 AM  
He is killing all the old hard liners, and when he is done he will open the doors to the west and end the oppressive regime.
 
2015-05-14 11:17:33 AM  
The story I read about this yesterday said that there is reason to believe that lil-un was never recognized by his ultimate dear leader grand pappy.  Apparently because un's mum is Japanese?  According to some defector or something, the upper level people don't respect lil-un because of this.
 
2015-05-14 11:17:41 AM  

Hack Patooey: We totally have a single satellite image with a 1-meter resolution, but can tell that these are people, and those things are totally ZPU-4s.  Believe us.

/Skeptical Hack is skeptical


Spy satellite resolutions have been in the sub-1 metre range for ages.

Yes, they can read a license plate from 500 miles up.
 
2015-05-14 11:26:41 AM  

Dog Welder: To be fair I don't think one of these:
[img.fark.net image 300x187]

is going to bring down any modern aircraft.  Might as well use it for something cool like an execution.

When they originally said "anti-aircraft" I was expecting something bigger and/or explodey, but this makes much more sense in a Best Korea sort of way.  Which is the best sort of way.


Actually, those guns are probably more dangerous than any SAMs the Norks might have. There are no countermeasures for flying lead. Low-flying planes and helicopters would be in a bit of trouble if they got too close to one of those.
Plus, no radar attached to the gun to warn pilots that there are AA threats nearby.
 
2015-05-14 11:35:41 AM  

El Dudereno: Actually, those guns are probably more dangerous than any SAMs the Norks might have. There are no countermeasures for flying lead. Low-flying planes and helicopters would be in a bit of trouble if they got too close to one of those.
Plus, no radar attached to the gun to warn pilots that there are AA threats nearby.


They are definitely dangerous to helicopters which fly slowly, but modern jet aircraft typically fly too fast to be tracked to human-controlled AA guns. It could only down a jet by chance.
 
2015-05-14 11:35:55 AM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: somedude210: nekom: So what happens when someone finally kills fatty dingdongs?

I don't think that'll happen anytime soon. It seems he's doing a pretty good job of killing off any potential opposition that has the leadership ability to lead a rebellion

Rebellions mean little when all you have to eat is weeds and mud pies, and your oppressors have all the guns.


And when they have at least all of your sons and most of your daughters conscripted in the Army and/or captive breeding programs.
 
2015-05-14 11:45:06 AM  
Makes sense.  How else do you take down a high level official?
 
2015-05-14 11:48:58 AM  
Doesn't sound much different than being blown from a gun, which was a common method of execution employed by the British when India was a colony under their rule.  Tie a guy to the muzzle of a cannon that has a blank charge loaded into it and fire. Complete and total annihilation.
 
2015-05-14 11:57:30 AM  

vsavatar: Doesn't sound much different than being blown from a gun, which was a common method of execution employed by the British when India was a colony under their rule.  Tie a guy to the muzzle of a cannon that has a blank charge loaded into it and fire. Complete and total annihilation.


Wikipedia article:  Blown by the gun.     Most recent example Afghanistan in the 1930s.
 
2015-05-14 11:58:25 AM  
cdn2-b.examiner.comView Full Size


KJB approves
 
2015-05-14 12:14:05 PM  

Rhypskallion: vsavatar: Doesn't sound much different than being blown from a gun, which was a common method of execution employed by the British when India was a colony under their rule.  Tie a guy to the muzzle of a cannon that has a blank charge loaded into it and fire. Complete and total annihilation.

Wikipedia article:  Blown by the gun.     Most recent example Afghanistan in the 1930s.


I was really really worried about clicking that link.  Can't wait for see the red line in the internet logs.
 
2015-05-14 12:18:04 PM  

FullMetalPanda: cgraves67: Dog Welder: To be fair I don't think one of these:
[img.fark.net image 600x374]

is going to bring down any modern aircraft.  Might as well use it for something cool like an execution.

When they originally said "anti-aircraft" I was expecting something bigger and/or explodey, but this makes much more sense in a Best Korea sort of way.  Which is the best sort of way.

It would probably still work against helicopters. Briefly. Before it got hit by a Hellfire missile.

Iraq didn't have any problems shooting down an entire battalion of Apaches during the Iraq invasion with those.


Citation please.
 
2015-05-14 12:18:29 PM  

TNel: This picture is screaming for a caption contest.
[cdn0.vox-cdn.com image 755x504]


Clap harder or your next.
 
2015-05-14 12:24:12 PM  

nekom: somedude210:
I don't think that'll happen anytime soon. It seems he's doing a pretty good job of killing off any potential opposition that has the leadership ability to lead a rebellion

Yeah, but if you push it far enough.  If you're a high level official in best Korea, there are a two ways you could react to this.
1.  Holy FARK I'd better be the loyalist loyaler who ever loyaled!
2.  No one is safe.  Who's next?  We have to get rid of this lunatic!


3. Purchase a one-way ticket to China and live of the fortune you have amassed through corruption.
 
2015-05-14 12:26:41 PM  

TNel: This picture is screaming for a caption contest.
[cdn0.vox-cdn.com image 300x200]


North side, north side
Little Unny, Unny wears the crown, he's the king around town
Dancing, glancing
Unny drives them silly with his star hat shimmy gun 'em down
 
2015-05-14 12:30:53 PM  
cdn1.vox-cdn.comView Full Size


"Hey, I didn't get a 'harumph' out of that guy- watch your ass buster"
 
2015-05-14 12:35:17 PM  
 I mentioned this in the other thread about this..I wondered if they used regular shells or true AA shells (the kind that explode shrapnel)..If they used the exploding kind, they probably had to place
the guy further away,..Regular shells might make him into swiss cheese..But the AA shells would probably just red mist him. The combination of the explosive the energy already of the thing
coming at you, and then all of the shrapnel bits would just be a mess.

 I had a teacher that was hit by shrapnel from a German AA battery. This was D-Day or maybe +1 in the area just North and West of the landings. The AA battery was on a hill overlooking
a huge area. The battery opened up and the shells were exploding over them raining shrapnel down, he lost the lower part of one leg..He was an awesome teacher too..
 
2015-05-14 12:46:30 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: scottydoesntknow: Un is a walking Poe's Law. No matter how crazy it may sound, it's still within the realm of possibility for him.

I sometimes wonder if he isn't trying to cultivate that persona a little bit.  If people think you're actually *that* crazy, they tend to give you a wide berth.  NK in general (and Kim in particular) is pretty weak.  Acting crazy gives people pause before messing with you.


It's related to the Art of War:  When weak (normal), appear strong (crazy), and when strong (crazy), appear weak (normal).

Often, it's the guy who isn't talking that you have to worry about.  I'm looking at you, China.

NK doesn't talk to the rest of the world, and when they do its all belligerent, so we assume they're crazy and leave them alone.  Silence and then belligerence works for them, but I think it's for the benefit of China to have them rattle our chain every so often. A good old fashion proxy villain.
 
2015-05-14 12:54:25 PM  

FullMetalPanda: Iraq didn't have any problems shooting down an entire battalion of Apaches during the Iraq invasion with those.


Uh, no.
 
2015-05-14 12:57:47 PM  

somedude210: berylman: With the way those quad barrels are spaced out you'd really only get shot by 1 or 2 rounds out of 4 unless you are exceptionally girthy.  Maybe they could be angled in a bit just for this purpose.  I mean if you are going to go for overkill at least be efficient.

that may be why the targets are 100 yards away, that may be the minimum distance for the focal point of all 4 barrels converging.


Guns like that would be regulated to shoot to a common point of aim significantly greater than 100 meters away.  Probably more like 500 meters.  Certainly not 25 meters, which is the distance between the "targets" and the "guns" in that picture (I measured on Google Earth).

I don't know, I looked at the report linked to in the article, and I'm not wholly convinced.

First of all, you might well use the range for anti-aircraft practice.  What TFA doesn't tell you is that there is a chalked out "beaten zone" with other markings roughly 500-ish meters to the northwest of that range on the side of a hill, and only slightly off axis to the range (the far end of the range is 100 meters).  There is also a smaller marking approximately the same distance but directly north that looks a bit like a crudely drawn starship Enterprise.  There are a number of linear ditches directly in the line of fire of that range, some going way up the hill.

Second, I only count 2 buses, 3 large trucks and one smaller vehicle.   Figure the trucks were for hauling the guns and the ammunition.   Each ZPU-4 has a crew of 5, and I count 6 "guns" on the firing line.  That's a minimum of 30 people just to operate the guns, not including the officers or range personnel.

I just don't see the transport for guns, crews, ammo, *AND* senior military witnesses.

Those "targets" make me a bit suspicious also.  But if you look to the upper right of them, you'll see something interesting that looks like it might be linear hay bales of some kind.  Previous imagery from that same time of the year in Google Earth shows that the area often seems to be "harvested", or at least maintained:

Fark user imageView Full Size



Note the imagery date:  October 5th, 2013, a year before the imagery in TFA.  Those "lumps" you see in the adjacent areas are hay bales.

Those "targets" could just as easily be a work detail cleaning up the range.

That's not to say that it's impossible, just that it's not proven by the evidence.  Interesting conjecture, and a definite possibility, but not proven by any means.
 
2015-05-14 12:59:21 PM  

Maud Dib: FullMetalPanda:

Iraq didn't have any problems shooting down an entire battalion of Apaches during the Iraq invasion with those.

[i134.photobucket.com image 248x139]

Link

129 helicopters and 24 fixed-wing aircraft have been reported by media to be lost in Iraq since the 2003 invasion till February 2009. 46 of these incidents have been attributed to hostile fire such as anti-aircraft artillery and surface-to-air missiles.

That hardly constitutes a battalion.


Choppers are toys for the marines now, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion#United_States_Marine_Corps

46 seems about right as the air wing of a 1,200 boot battalion.   I'm going to award him 'Technically Correct', which as we all know is the very best kind of correct.
 
2015-05-14 1:00:02 PM  

buckler: Can that gun even be depressed low enough to shoot horizontally?


Like most Soviet designed support weapon systems, the ZPU was designed with the ability of direct land target engagement from the start.
 
2015-05-14 1:02:32 PM  
Whenever I see those officers' hats, I always imagine them filled with fruit salad.
 
2015-05-14 1:05:00 PM  

fireclown: I spent a lot of time on the Janes Apache simulator (one of the great PC simulators ever), and they were a continuous pain because of that.


upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size


Awesome in co-op mode.
 
2015-05-14 1:08:30 PM  

Click Click D'oh: buckler: Can that gun even be depressed low enough to shoot horizontally?

Like most Soviet designed support weapon systems, the ZPU was designed with the ability of direct land target engagement from the start.


I did not know that. Thanks.
 
2015-05-14 1:15:19 PM  

buckler: I did not know that. Thanks.


....In fact, the direct engagement capability of the ZPU-2 and ZPU-4 makes it popular for use on Technicals:

therightplanet.comView Full Size


The old, bolt a big gun to a small truck method of warfare.
 
2015-05-14 1:18:43 PM  

Click Click D'oh: buckler: I did not know that. Thanks.

....In fact, the direct engagement capability of the ZPU-2 and ZPU-4 makes it popular for use on Technicals:

[www.therightplanet.com image 536x402]

The old, bolt a big gun to a small truck method of warfare.


That just gives me the creeps.
 
2015-05-14 1:19:31 PM  

buckler: Whenever I see those officers' hats, I always imagine them filled with fruit salad.


stream1.gifsoup.comView Full Size


Fruit salad, yummy yummy.
 
2015-05-14 1:21:13 PM  

Unobtanium: TNel: This picture is screaming for a caption contest.
[cdn0.vox-cdn.com image 300x200]

North side, north side
Little Unny, Unny wears the crown, he's the king around town
Dancing, glancing
Unny drives them silly with his star hat shimmy gun 'em down


The Sweet.  Very nice.
 
2015-05-14 1:21:26 PM  

cgraves67: tonguedepressor: Do those things shoot 50 cal or do they use cannon and what's the difference?

It probably doesn't use a 50 cal. It's Soviet-sourced, and they prefer metric-sized ammo.

Automatic cannon use explosive or armor piercing shells instead of inert kinetic slugs like a machine gun.


14.5x114mm. Technically .59 caliber or so. The bullet is about twice the weight of a typical .50 BMG load and it hits with a truckload of force.

.50 BMG, 14.5mm, and 20mm left-to-right:
img819.imageshack.usView Full Size


Also, I don't believe they made regular ball rounds for it, so you have your choice of flavors between armor-piercing, incendiary, and even explosive. Any one of which would turn a human body into chunky salsa with ease.

/the Russians do in fact have .50 caliber machine guns in service, they're 12.7x108mm, a hair more powerful than the US 12.7x99mm.
 
2015-05-14 1:21:54 PM  

buckler: Click Click D'oh: buckler: I did not know that. Thanks.

....In fact, the direct engagement capability of the ZPU-2 and ZPU-4 makes it popular for use on Technicals:

[www.therightplanet.com image 536x402]

The old, bolt a big gun to a small truck method of warfare.

That just gives me the creeps.


Probably easier to drive than a Mongoose from "Halo 4"
 
2015-05-14 1:29:14 PM  
Blowing from a gun sounds hideous
 
2015-05-14 1:32:39 PM  
Dude next to Un appears to be sleep-clapping. Explains the glare from Dear Leader. He's probably next in line for execution.

cdn0.vox-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2015-05-14 1:37:23 PM  

TNel: This picture is screaming for a caption contest.
[cdn0.vox-cdn.com image 755x504]



Glorious leader just realized no one brought a noteboook....
 
2015-05-14 1:38:15 PM  

that one guy from that one place: Dude next to Un appears to be sleep-clapping. Explains the glare from Dear Leader. He's probably next in line for execution.

[cdn0.vox-cdn.com image 755x504]


He seems to be glaring somewhere behind the guys. Probably eyeballing some plebian who dared to pilfer a wheat grain.
 
2015-05-14 1:40:17 PM  

Salmon: Blowing from a gun sounds hideous


toplessrobot.comView Full Size
 
2015-05-14 1:46:02 PM  
Quicker and more reliable than any execution method we use.  Saw a video of ISIS or some other random jihadi group doing this to a guy.  He kinda just exploded.
 
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