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(The Federalist)   Somebody seriously needs to stage an intervention for Neil deGrasse Tyson. He just keeps making stuff up   (thefederalist.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Neil deGrasse, Dr. Tyson, President Thomas Jefferson, Islamic fundamentalists  
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8290 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Sep 2014 at 8:20 AM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2014-09-17 10:22:13 AM  
So, this guy says that what Tyson says about what Bush said the Bible says about what Isaiah says about which stars are named what by who is incorrect?  Stop the presses!!!
 
2014-09-17 10:23:16 AM  

NickelP: cameroncrazy1984: NickelP: bestie1: It kind of seems like NGT has his own religion. This is the third time in one week that I've seen proof that he's full of shiat yet he's still the savior to so many people.  The first two were the standard tripe that 8th grade science teachers make up.  This one is a uniformed political tirade.  Why do I not remember my college physics professors making these mistakes?  Oh I guess they were just boring and didn't have political agendas.

He is a semi decent public speaker, who is atheist, and has a lot of visibility. The hardons a bunch of people have for him 'cause omg he is smart like me, he knows so much better than everyone else and he agrees with me so I'm smart too!' Is absurd

Basically everyone that only exists in your head.

Read the quotes in the article and the other articles he links to about this.  I don't mean read them for correctness or citations, read them for the points he is making with them.

Oh I'm NDT and I got dismissed from jury duty because I know science and know what a milligram is.  I'm so much smarter than judges and the court system.

Oh I'm NDT and I know what averages are.  I'm so much smarter than everyone else (just ignore the median thing for a minute).  I'm so much smarter than the media.

Oh I'm NDT and I know how many degrees are in a circle.  I'm so much smarter than congress.

etc etc.

My problem with him isn't that he is capable of noticing minor miss speakings of other people, or that he may misquote them.  Its that he sells himself (via promotion and expensive speaking engagements) as being 'so much smarter than everyone else because I believe in science' and then he puts down everyone else with a 'hey you are smart too because of science!' stance.  The man literally gets paid to talk about how stupid people are, except those paying him to make them feel smart.  Think about that.

Anyhow the author is a dbag, so is NDT, cosmos was a farking let down and I hope he fades from the public sp ...



So in your mind NDGT is a d-bag because he gets speaking gigs and promotes himself by using his credentials and qualifications?  In other words, your problem with him isn't that he's not qualified to discuss science, it's that he's using his scientific knowledge to get publicity?

At least you're focusing on the important things, and found a way to criticize the author of the article and NDGT equally.  False equivalency is fun and, importantly, lets you stand out in this thread as someone on a totally higher level of thinking.
 
2014-09-17 10:23:38 AM  
Anybody that can't cite the offending occurrence before the fifth paragraph is neither a journalist nor a pundit. Just another shill who believes Science is a religion.
 
2014-09-17 10:23:52 AM  
This thread started dumb and got worse.
 
2014-09-17 10:24:09 AM  
NickelP:

The point of highlighting the severe problem we have in this country with math and science literacy is not to make you feel dumb, but to make those in power realize that it's a problem worth fixing.  The problem you have is that merely stating a fact is a personal attack.  Whether it's the perceived assault on religion in cosmos or your ridiculous overreaction to these anecdotes, you think that someone saying that we, as a country, are bad at math and science is an attack on them.  I'm not really sure how else we can begin to confront that problem without someone who is good at math and science working to set policy instead of... whatever we have now.  But I guess that would hurt everyone's feelings?
 
2014-09-17 10:25:47 AM  

SundaesChild: Is this one of those "We get it, he's black" moments?


Well...

I mean I don't know the author or his life, but the fact that his picture is the sort of image you'd cast "terrified racist wimp #2" as in some comedy involving Illinois Nazis leaves certain implications.
 
2014-09-17 10:25:49 AM  

turdferguson2k12: He thinks kids are sexy, Hitler was cool, and now we have evidence that NdGT likes Nickelback. He actually said Nickelback is "a really great band." He said that! How can anybody trust this guy when he says stuff like that. Wow.

[img.fark.net image 518x519]


Hey! You've gone way too far with that last pic!

/You should be ashamed.
 
2014-09-17 10:26:09 AM  

Chummer45: So in your mind NDGT is a d-bag because he gets speaking gigs and promotes himself by using his credentials and qualifications?


Remember how viciously Carl Sagan was attacked for doing the exact same thing?

Oh, wait, he wasn't, for some strange reason.  I wonder what could make the difference between Carl and Neil?

Think, think, think....
 
2014-09-17 10:26:28 AM  

James!: This thread started dumb and got worse.


Come on. You need proper accreditation.

"This thread started dumb and got worse."

--Neil deGrasse Tyson
 
2014-09-17 10:27:14 AM  

sweetmelissa31: I don't have a Ph.D. in physics, but I'm pretty sure February 2003 did not happen in the week after 9/11.

Suck it libs, book learning is officially obsolete. Don't need a PhD to know when February 2003 occurred.

Later Neil DeFartte Tyson

[img.fark.net image 322x128]


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2014-09-17 10:27:58 AM  
i1207.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2014-09-17 10:30:22 AM  

sprawl15: i.imgur.com


oh my frick
 
2014-09-17 10:31:03 AM  
Well, this thread certainly brought out all our resident shiat stirrers...


I thought they did a great job on the Cosmos. Still love the original, but Black Science Man's version was good, too.
 
2014-09-17 10:31:33 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2014-09-17 10:32:07 AM  

Jack Harper: NickelP:

The point of highlighting the severe problem we have in this country with math and science literacy is not to make you feel dumb, but to make those in power realize that it's a problem worth fixing.  The problem you have is that merely stating a fact is a personal attack.  Whether it's the perceived assault on religion in cosmos or your ridiculous overreaction to these anecdotes, you think that someone saying that we, as a country, are bad at math and science is an attack on them.  I'm not really sure how else we can begin to confront that problem without someone who is good at math and science working to set policy instead of... whatever we have now.  But I guess that would hurt everyone's feelings?


I think its possible people misspeak sometimes.  To isolate those in order to push your intelligence above them is pretty silly, more so when your end goal is selling your intelligence.  If folks want to pay to hear him talk about how smart he is then they can have at it.  I do find it comical his defenders have switched to 'people misspeak sometimes, rabble rabble rabble, ignore his misquotes, no one speaks off the cuff perfectly, rabble rabble rabble, to he is just pointing out how people don't science and math and if he needs to quote them when they slightly slip up then thats good!'

How is he working to set policy exactly?  What form of government has he been involved in and engaged?  Has he bothered running for his school board or any offices?  Is he supporting candidates he thinks will change these things?  Has he offered constructive means to change them?  Outside of saying 'OMG those guys are sooooo stupid, but you are soooo smart because you paid me to be here today or follow my twitter' what has he actually done to advance public policy in regards to the areas he is complaining about?
 
2014-09-17 10:32:32 AM  
"Is our children learning?"  -NdGT
 
2014-09-17 10:32:40 AM  

turdferguson2k12: He thinks kids are sexy, Hitler was cool, and now we have evidence that NdGT likes Nickelback. He actually said Nickelback is "a really great band." He said that! How can anybody trust this guy when he says stuff like that. Wow.

[img.fark.net image 518x519]


Looks like your subsequent image went too far with "misogamy" , though I guess mods are cool with this.
 
2014-09-17 10:33:26 AM  

keylock71: Well, this thread certainly brought out all our resident shiat stirrers...

I thought they did a great job on the Cosmos. Still love the original, but Black Science Man's version was good, too.


The ship was a little stupid in my opinion but I overall enjoyed it.  I was a bit worried he would try to imitate Sagan's style and he could never have pulled that off (not saying one is better than the other, just that they are not the same personality at all).  But he made it his own, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
 
2014-09-17 10:35:52 AM  

James!: This thread started dumb and got worse.


Well consider the source material.
 
2014-09-17 10:37:02 AM  
BTW Tyson's been doing a good job getting kids excited about science, which is a good counterweight to the anti-science know-nothingism of actual douchebags like Rick Perry. Who, you know, used to be this idiot blogger's boss.
 
2014-09-17 10:38:01 AM  
Wow, this thread is awesome. Some nobody on a crappy website points out that NDT lies about things and everyones butt explodes. Now this nobody is anti-science and a racist.
 
2014-09-17 10:38:44 AM  
This is another example of the "Obama says 'I' alot in his speeches" bullshiat.  Shoot the messenger, in other words. How on Earth do these people get PAID for this kind of ratfarkery?
 
2014-09-17 10:38:51 AM  
I'm quite fond of NDT's approach to being a sort of ambassador for science.  The problem is that it's hard to target both those who love science and those who viscerally hate and distrust it.

We have a pretty serious anti-intellectual streak in America.  I imagine that makes it pretty hard to communicate with us en masse.

I appreciate his trying.  But I'm not sure he's walking that fine line very well.
 
2014-09-17 10:39:28 AM  

keylock71: I thought they did a great job on the Cosmos. Still love the original, but Black Science Man's version was good, too.


Overall it was good but I was offended by the tarnishing of the good name of Humphry Davy.

Best scientist ever?

chemheritage.orgView Full Size
 
2014-09-17 10:39:41 AM  

I alone am best: Wow, this thread is awesome. Some nobody on a crappy website points out that NDT lies about things and everyones butt explodes. Now this nobody is anti-science and a racist.


Lotta boring trolls in here, but there's always room for another. Welcome!
 
2014-09-17 10:42:08 AM  

sweetmelissa31: keylock71: I thought they did a great job on the Cosmos. Still love the original, but Black Science Man's version was good, too.

Overall it was good but I was offended by the tarnishing of the good name of Humphry Davy.

Best scientist ever?

[www.chemheritage.org image 400x283]


holy shiat, not only did Humphry Davy apparently invent the science of farts, he also studied galvanic corrosion and its effects on ships
 
2014-09-17 10:42:30 AM  

Wooly Bully: I alone am best: Wow, this thread is awesome. Some nobody on a crappy website points out that NDT lies about things and everyones butt explodes. Now this nobody is anti-science and a racist.

Lotta boring trolls in here, but there's always room for another. Welcome!


I hope you have a standing desk, it must be hard to sit with that amount of butthurt.
 
2014-09-17 10:43:35 AM  

I alone am best: Wow, this thread is awesome. Some nobody on a crappy website points out that NDT lies about things and everyones butt explodes. Now this nobody is anti-science and a racist.



Know how I know you didn't actually read the thread?
 
2014-09-17 10:43:49 AM  

I alone am best: Now this nobody is anti-science and a racist.


In people's defense that could just be them playing the odds considering this guy is a right wing pundit.
 
2014-09-17 10:44:55 AM  

BeesNuts: I'm quite fond of NDT's approach to being a sort of ambassador for science.  The problem is that it's hard to target both those who love science and those who viscerally hate and distrust it.

We have a pretty serious anti-intellectual streak in America.  I imagine that makes it pretty hard to communicate with us en masse.

I appreciate his trying.  But I'm not sure he's walking that fine line very well.


I tried to talk to a fundie I work with about science the other day. It did not turn out well. I know the guy isnt stupid but he would literally not listen to anything that may have remotely challenged his world view.
 
2014-09-17 10:45:30 AM  

I alone am best: I hope you have a standing desk, it must be hard to sit with that amount of butthurt.



Is the same "butthurt" libruls express about Palin getting media coverage?
 
2014-09-17 10:46:06 AM  

nekom: The ship was a little stupid in my opinion but I overall enjoyed it.


Yeah, it was... But my younger cousins loved it. I'll deal with a little cheesy to see kids getting excited about science. The original had its cheesy moments, too, but I loved it when I was a kid.


sweetmelissa31: keylock71: I thought they did a great job on the Cosmos. Still love the original, but Black Science Man's version was good, too.

Overall it was good but I was offended by the tarnishing of the good name of Humphry Davy.

Best scientist ever?

[www.chemheritage.org image 400x283]


Look, I know you think you're trying to be funny, but it's still way too soon to be joking about The Great Cabbage Fart Panic of 1795.
 
2014-09-17 10:48:49 AM  

Lord_Baull: I alone am best: I hope you have a standing desk, it must be hard to sit with that amount of butthurt.


Is the same "butthurt" libruls express about Palin getting media coverage?


What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
 
2014-09-17 10:48:53 AM  

Karac: Forbidden Doughnut: Not getting some bible reference right ( Isiah vs Genesis, or something) is excessively nitpicky. (It would be like me getting upset at a Fundamentalist Christian for not having read anything by Voltaire ,Thomas Paine* , or the AD&D "Planescape" campaign sourcebooks )

/ esp. Paine's "The Age of Reason"; lots of things in that one to p*ss off fundamentalists of ALL stripes....

Now hold on a minute - everyone should read about Planescape.  It is quite possibly the best setting for any game I've ever encountered.


Never played Planescape. How's that compare to the best setting for 3.X, Eberron?

Also, the author has a seriously raging hateboner for Tyson.
 
2014-09-17 10:49:45 AM  
Jackson Herring:
holy shiat, not only did Humphry Davy apparently invent the science of farts, he also studied galvanic corrosion and its effects on ships

Also dang, am I right ladies

l.wigflip.comView Full Size
 
2014-09-17 10:49:47 AM  

Jackson Herring: holy shiat, not only did Humphry Davy apparently invent the science of farts


Inspired, I looked this up and learned that he researched the possible medical benefits of fart gas (lots of great stuff in here):

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O128-farting.html
 
2014-09-17 10:50:17 AM  

NickelP: Oh I'm NDT and I got dismissed from jury duty because I know science and know what a milligram is.  I'm so much smarter than judges and the court system.

Oh I'm NDT and I know what averages are.  I'm so much smarter than everyone else (just ignore the median thing for a minute).  I'm so much smarter than the media.

Oh I'm NDT and I know how many degrees are in a circle.  I'm so much smarter than congress.


Oh Grimey, will you ever win?

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2014-09-17 10:52:08 AM  
People say "Yo, Humpty, you're really funny lookin'"
that's all right 'cause I get things cookin'
Ya stare, ya glare, ya constantly try to compare me
but ya can't get near me
I give 'em more, see, and on the floor, B,
all the girls they adore me
Oh yes, ladies, I'm really bein' sincere
'cause in a 69 my humpty nose will tickle ya rear.
 
2014-09-17 10:52:56 AM  

I alone am best: Lord_Baull: I alone am best: I hope you have a standing desk, it must be hard to sit with that amount of butthurt.


Is the same "butthurt" libruls express about Palin getting media coverage?

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?


i13.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2014-09-17 10:53:52 AM  

NickelP: Jack Harper: NickelP:

I think its possible people misspeak sometimes.


Ok.  But it's also possible that a person is lacking in math or science literacy.  Is his anecdote really unbelievable?

To isolate those in order to push your intelligence above them is pretty silly, more so when your end goal is selling your intelligence.

If he was merely selling his intelligence, he would be holding a cushy dean job.  Instead, he works at the same job where he made a name for himself- as the director of the Hayden Planetarium, at the American Museum of Natural History.  The job of a museum is to educate the public.  Couldn't he just be attempting to, you know, educate the public?

If folks want to pay to hear him talk about how smart he is then they can have at it.  I do find it comical his defenders have switched to 'people misspeak sometimes, rabble rabble rabble, ignore his misquotes, no one speaks off the cuff perfectly, rabble rabble rabble, to he is just pointing out how people don't science and math and if he needs to quote them when they slightly slip up then thats good!'

You find it comical because you decided that people misspoke instead of sucking at math so you are the only person who can see that relationship.

How is he working to set policy exactly?

US President George W. Bush appointed Tyson to serve on the Commission on the Future of the United States Aerospace Industry and in 2004 to serve on the President's Commission on Implementation of United States Space Exploration Policy, the latter better known as the "Moon, Mars, and Beyond" commission. Soon afterward he was awarded the NASA Distinguished Public Service Medal, the highest civilian honor bestowed by NASA.

Just one of many examples.

What form of government has he been involved in and engaged?

You don't need to actually be in government to influence policy.  But he actually was, so this is a doubly asinine question.

Has he bothered running for his school board or any offices?

We're not talking about a school board member right now, so obviously he has sufficient influence where he's at.

Is he supporting candidates he thinks will change these things?

Yes.

Has he offered constructive means to change them?

Yes...

Outside of saying 'OMG those guys are sooooo stupid, but you are soooo smart because you paid me to be here today or follow my twitter' what has he actually done to advance public policy in regards to the areas he is complaining about?

... unless you always construe criticism of math and science literacy as a personal attack.  So, I guess any criticism of math and science education, no matter how valid or constructive, is going to fall into this category.
 
2014-09-17 10:56:03 AM  

I alone am best: it must be hard to sit with that amount of butthurt


The troll with the TNG joke was actually funny, but there's still time for you to do something with your butt theme here. Try a little harder.
 
2014-09-17 10:58:44 AM  

Wooly Bully: I alone am best: it must be hard to sit with that amount of butthurt

The troll with the TNG joke was actually funny, but there's still time for you to do something with your butt theme here. Try a little harder.


Maybe he just needs a new but-thurt?
 
2014-09-17 10:59:29 AM  

Jackson Herring: [i.imgur.com image 615x345]


Well that's probably going to be the highlight of my day now.  Might as well go back to bed.
 
2014-09-17 11:02:54 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: The very punchable author's face:
[img.fark.net image 390x412]


Ugh. It's like Steve Buscemi farked pedantry itself.
 
2014-09-17 11:09:40 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Really? That's the attitude we're going with?

"Who cares about the proof, I like what he says so it's OK."

SCIENCE!

No, the attitude we're going with is "seeing the forest for the trees".  Mr. Degrasse-Tyson misquoted Bush. BFD. The quote was really not the focus of the speech.  It's stupid nitpicky bullshiat designed to distract from the matter at hand.

It's like when people get all huffy and say "Well, Sarah Palin never actually said she could see Russia from her house."  No shiat, Sherlock.  She said that living in a state that's close to Russia made her a foreign policy expert.  The "I can see Russia from my house!" line was meant to mock her for that.



So, like I said - we're apparently going with "I like what he's saying so it doesn't matter if he's making stuff up."

Fark: where fact checking cited sources is considered "nitpicky bullshiat."

Here's how it works when rational adults consider things like "facts," "evidence," and "quotations" : if you are fact checked on the little things in your writing, or speeches, or academic writings, and it's discovered that you're making up the little things, then it automatically calls into question the entire point you are trying to make. Making shiat up undercuts the credibility of your entire argument - which is why it's generally considered a no-no, as well as against every rule of professional conduct ever.

NDT was using these "direct quotes" as evidence to support his point that journalists and politicians don't understand science. You seriously don't see the problem here?

I suspect you actually do, and you just want to give NDT a pass because you agree with what he is saying.

The really sad thing here is that the little shiatworm that authored TFA was 100% correct: there was absolutely, 100% NO DAMN REASON to make anything up. There are a plethora of examples out there of politicians and journalists that very publicly don't understand science. Making shiat up in this case is beyond lazy; I would classify it as "outright condescending to the audience." The fact that NDT gets the whole "half the students are below average" thing hilariously wrong is just icing on the cake (although that particular one is probably most jarring to me).

Everyone wants to demand evidence from viewpoints that they DON'T agree with, and give a pass to things they do agree with. This is, universally, the most horrendously incorrect way to approach proof and verification.

Confirmation bias means that we tend to seek out, remember, and agree with stuff that caters to our preconceived opinion.

For your average liberal farker, this means that the most dangerous source of information is from liberals (the converse is true for conservatives). Because people that agree with you (by definition) will feed you plausible sounding bullshiat that you swallow whole because it sounds good and plays to your confirmation bias. The most dangerous sources of misinformation and disinformation are people we agree with - people really like to hear what they already know, repackaged.

Consequentially, this means we should fact check people we agree with harder than the opposition. Not only because they are liable to slip bullshiat past your filters, but also because knowing if your side is right or wrong strengthens your own knowledge and position.

The author of TFA might be a little shiatstain, but he's 100% right to call bullshiat bullshiat, whether he agrees with NDT's overarching motivations/politics/whatever or not.  As someone that happens to agree with NDT on many things, I actually appreciate it.
 
2014-09-17 11:12:56 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: Not getting some bible reference right ( Isiah vs Genesis, or something) is excessively nitpicky. (It would be like me getting upset at a Fundamentalist Christian for not having read anything by Voltaire ,Thomas Paine* , or the AD&D "Planescape" campaign sourcebooks )

/ esp. Paine's "The Age of Reason"; lots of things in that one to p*ss off fundamentalists of ALL stripes....


Tyson is obviously not much of an atheist, nor smarter than most atheists on Fark since the average atheist here claims to have read and know the bible better than christians.
 
2014-09-17 11:13:56 AM  

Elegy: if you are fact checked on the little things in your writing, or speeches, or academic writings, and it's discovered that you're making up the little things, then it automatically calls into question the entire point you are trying to make. Making shiat up undercuts the credibility of your entire argument - which is why it's generally considered a no-no, as well as against every rule of professional conduct ever.


Where does this right wing pundit fall on the credibility scale?
 
2014-09-17 11:15:03 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: Not getting some bible reference right ( Isiah vs Genesis, or something) is excessively nitpicky. (It would be like me getting upset at a Fundamentalist Christian for not having read anything by Voltaire ,Thomas Paine* , or the AD&D "Planescape" campaign sourcebooks )

/ esp. Paine's "The Age of Reason"; lots of things in that one to p*ss off fundamentalists of ALL stripes....


And, it happened in 2003 instead of "immediately following 9/11".

And, Bush was talking about the Space Shuttle crash as opposed to Islam or 9/11.

And, Tyson didn't get the quote even close to correct.

And, Tyson seems to have a general habit of making quotes up.

Yes, the author is a right wing partisan.  That doesn't mean he is necessarily wrong in this particular case.  He presents a compelling argument that Tyson appears to make up a lot of quotes and anecdotes out of thin air.
 
2014-09-17 11:15:44 AM  

LucklessWonder: Jackson Herring: black scienceman: the next generation

[shirtoid.com image 500x500]


I need that shirt.
 
2014-09-17 11:19:26 AM  

Cestius_Ataturk: Forbidden Doughnut: Not getting some bible reference right ( Isiah vs Genesis, or something) is excessively nitpicky. (It would be like me getting upset at a Fundamentalist Christian for not having read anything by Voltaire ,Thomas Paine* , or the AD&D "Planescape" campaign sourcebooks )

/ esp. Paine's "The Age of Reason"; lots of things in that one to p*ss off fundamentalists of ALL stripes....

Tyson is obviously not much of an atheist, nor smarter than most atheists on Fark since the average atheist here claims to have read and know the bible better than christians.


It's almost like you can be an atheist whether you've read the bible or not. It's not like that's a major requirement to not believing in a god.
 
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