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(Fark)   We're adding misogyny to Fark moderator guidelines DIT -Drew   (fark.com) divider line
    More: PSA  
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10328 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Aug 2014 at 2:34 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2014-08-18 2:35:12 PM  
56 votes:
Adding misogyny to Fark moderator guidelines.

Adam Savage once described to me the problem this way: if the Internet was a dude, we'd all agree that dude has a serious problem with women.

We've actually been tightening up moderation style along these lines for awhile now, but as of today, the FArQ will be updated with new rules reminding you all that we don't want to be the He Man Woman Hater's Club.  This represents enough of a departure from pretty much how every other large internet community operates that I figure an announcement is necessary.

There are lots of examples of highly misogynistic language in pop culture, and Fark has used those plenty over the years. From SNL's "Jane, you ignorant slut" to Blazing Saddles' multiple casual references to rape, there are a lot of instances where views are made extreme to parody them. On Fark, we have a tendency to use pop culture references as a type of referential shorthand with one another.

On SNL and in a comedy movie, though, the context is clear. On the Internet, it's impossible to know the difference between a person with hateful views and a person lampooning hateful views to make a point. The mods try to be reasonable, and context often matters. We will try and determine what you meant, but that's not always a pass. If your post can be taken one of two ways, and one of those ways can be interpreted as misogynistic, the mods may delete it -- even if that wasn't your intent.

Things that aren't acceptable:

- Rape jokes
- Calling women as a group "whores" or "sluts" or similar demeaning terminology
- Jokes suggesting that a woman who suffered a crime was somehow asking for it

Obviously, these are just a few examples and shouldn't be taken as the full gospel, but to give you a few examples of what will always be over the line. Trying to anticipate every situation and every conversation in every thread would be ridiculous, so consider these guidelines and post accordingly.  I recommend that when encountering grey areas, instead of trying to figure out where the actual line is, the best strategy would be to stay out of the grey area entirely.

As one of the folks who picks headlines, I can also say with some certainty that we're not going to get everything right all the time on our end either.  I've been trying to keep an eye toward these guidelines for a couple months now and I still make mistakes and/or miss problem taglines completely.  We're trying to make the Fark community a better place, and hopefully this will be a few steps in the right direction.
 
2014-08-18 7:09:07 PM  
20 votes:
As a female, I find this move highly offensive. (Not to mention stupid beyond all reason).

Here, let me explain it so

images.clipartof.comView Full Size


can understand.

At fark, we have a fairly stand up group of people, they tend to call folks out when they're being a$$holes. At the same time, every single user has a "block" feature that we can access when someone really goes overboard, if the mods don't ban them first.

And while that is enough for male farkers, apparently us female farkers need mods patrolling the board in case someone uses a bad word or is mean to us. We can't be expected to deal with trolls, a$$holes, or general bullshiat on our own like the guys, because we are delicate little flowers that need protecting.

Do you understand what you are telling us? 

YOU ARE TELLING US WE NEED MODS TO PROTECT US BECAUSE WE CAN'T TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES!
 

i268.photobucket.comView Full Size



You know what? Fark you. Fark you and your backa$$ward misogyny. I'm not in farking kindergarten and I don't need a mod hovering over me when I go into threads. I can take care of myself.


faithljustice.files.wordpress.comView Full Size



How? Because...

 
brucemctague.comView Full Size

You know what that is? Epic loads of gobsmacking confidence. That is how you do not give a shiat about what trolls/fools/idiots/morons and the rest think if their thinking is stupid. Believe it or not you can have both confidence and admit you're wrong if you're in an honest debate. You know, the kind with actual facts and science in it.

Too much stupid from one poster?

i268.photobucket.comView Full Size


Boom. Done. 


If our society wants strong and equal women, it's going to have to start treating and teaching them that way.

And that means expecting them to kick a$$ when necessary.

img.fark.netView Full Size


/there are few things more awesome than knowing you can hold your own anywhere you go.
 
2014-08-18 2:55:17 PM  
16 votes:
It's no skin off my nose but I find it inconsistent that directly below this thread is a thread advertising Total Fark with the headline:

We offend more people before 9AM than most people do in a day.

One hand you are outright advertising as a positive that you run a website that people can and will find offensive and then turn around and start moderating the website because some people find it offensive. As I said, it's no skin off my nose but it does appear to be sending mixed messages.
 
2014-08-18 2:39:42 PM  
16 votes:
Kinda sad that we actually need to have rules against this.
 
2014-08-18 2:58:24 PM  
15 votes:
I take it this also means no more "penis goes where?" in the mugshot of the week threads?

This is a bad idea Drew.  It reeks of being thin skinned and kissing the advertiser's asses.  Fark grew up on being an asshole and an asshole it should remain.
 
2014-08-18 2:40:13 PM  
15 votes:
This headline could be interpreted as meaning that misogyny is now a requirement.
 
2014-08-18 3:03:45 PM  
11 votes:
Two vital points to remember:

1) Satire is only satire when it points upward. Satire pointed downward is just reinforcement of the status quo.
2) If you can't be funny without being needlessly hurtful to people over shiat they can't control (race, sex, etc), you're not funny.
 
2014-08-18 2:46:42 PM  
11 votes:
Well Fark was nice while it lasted.

/I miss the days when softcore pornography was sandwiched between headlines and wild gorgors roamed free.
 
2014-08-18 2:45:26 PM  
11 votes:
Good call on the misogyny moderation.

However, if you guys can actually do something about some of the seriously rampant racists around on Fark, that'd be great, though.
 
Bf+
2014-08-18 4:13:03 PM  
10 votes:

Cyclometh: Misogyny is a real problem in our society, and just like it was said in the Boobies


This one sentence is perhaps the best example of my feelings on the subject.
Censorship of misogyny on Fark is only the most transparently ineffective and insincere way to address any actual issue.
Fark still hosts a porn site, Fark still sells "Jane You Ignorant Slut" T-Shirts, and even Fark's own filters are arguably misogynistic.
But now, there's a guideline for moderators to ban rape jokes.  So problem solved!  Look at how awesome we are!
 
2014-08-18 3:26:23 PM  
10 votes:
valerierlawson.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 3:02:15 PM  
10 votes:
I am generally supportive of this, though I am not sure commenting really needs that level of moderation.  We all have ignore buttons and just like the racist idiots who frequent fark from time to time, an ignored troll is a troll that quickly moves on to greener pastures.


And just like racists, I would rather see misogynists put there cards on the table so we know who is who.  Partially so we can salvage the savable, and ignore the unrepentant.   I also think we tend to have some pretty fierce farkettes and were I them, I might find this policy just a touch condescending....They are pretty good at fighting their own battles.

Now that said, devotee of radical self expression as I may be, I support Drew on this because ultimately this is HIS sandbox, he has a right to be proud of what it looks like, and drain any cesspools he may see
 
2014-08-18 5:41:19 PM  
9 votes:

netweavr: Oh we're being serious? Mods aren't paid and GM is fine.


Genevieve Marie is a biased, unintelligent, over-sensitive idiot and her attitude becoming official policy is a horrible thing.
 
2014-08-18 5:36:44 PM  
9 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Misandry is much like "Racism against white people".It can exist as an individual prejudice, but it has no systemic power behind it. It's not something we've been struggling with for a few hundred years. It's not baked into our system of governing and into our culture.


That frankly is the most stupid thing I've ever read on Fark.

If you're not white you can't be racist, and even if non-white people can be racist it is not a lot of people so deal with it.

You've got one warped version of reality.
 
2014-08-18 5:27:30 PM  
9 votes:

Shadow Blasko: Genevieve Marie: That's just separate than believing misandry is a thing. I'm more than happy to debate the misandry thing next time it comes up in a less official/more appropriate thread.

How is Misogyny being a punishable offense, an offense being meted out by a moderator who doesn't believe that misandry exists, inappropriate in any way?

Seriously. This is probably the absolute best place to have this decision.


This. Someone from Fark who is a higher up than GM needs to address this if they're even reading the details. Someone made her a mod, gave her power, and this is how she feels about men. How can anyone seriously think she's going to apply this new rule in an objective manner?
 
2014-08-18 3:20:57 PM  
9 votes:
I look at this site as a comedy website. I don't think anything should be off the table in comedy. Funny is funny.
 
2014-08-18 2:50:30 PM  
9 votes:
So its not acceptable to label women with negative terms (fine)  but its game on for the men/catholics/christians/jews/muslims?  Really?

How encompassing.
 
2014-08-18 7:32:05 PM  
8 votes:

cuzsis: And while that is enough for male farkers, apparently us female farkers need mods patrolling the board in case someone uses a bad word or is mean to us. We can't be expected to deal with trolls, a$$holes, or general bullshiat on our own like the guys, because we are delicate little flowers that need protecting.


Mighty insulting, isn't it?

I can take care of myself. I do not need someone to come and tell me to move aside and they will decide what is offensive to me and ban it. I will either give it right back to whomever decides to throw some kind of insult at me or ignore them. I do not need to be treated like a fragile, delicate little flower who will leave the site if someone calls me a skank.

I will, however, phase myself out of the site if I am continually treated like some kind of shrinking violet who needs to be protected from the big scary world.

Fark wants to ban misogyny? Start with not treating me like my vagina makes me weak. I don't need special rules to protect me from the very free-for-all that brought me to Fark in the first farking place. What I need is not a gilded cage around me and protectors keeping the bad, scary men away. What I need is people to just get the fark out of my way and leave me alone to take care of myself. If that's not going to happen here, I'll go find where it will.

As for all the people who have said that disagreement with this policy must only be the bitter ramblings of people who have been admonished, deleted, and/or banned for making rape jokes or hating women: I never have. I disagree with this decision because the very principle of it is demeaning to me.

It comes from people like Genevieve Marie who have said before, and in so many words, that I am too stupid to recognize when I have been offended or harassed and that I need them to tell me so and take care of the (non-existent) problem for me. In what way is that not more misogynistic than any dipshiat who calls me a coont?
 
2014-08-18 6:16:25 PM  
8 votes:

insertsnarkyusername: Genevieve Marie: Shadow Blasko: Genevieve Marie: That's just separate than believing misandry is a thing. I'm more than happy to debate the misandry thing next time it comes up in a less official/more appropriate thread.

How is Misogyny being a punishable offense, an offense being meted out by a moderator who doesn't believe that misandry exists, inappropriate in any way?

Seriously. This is probably the absolute best place to have this decision.

How's this, for a more detailed explanation of what I actually believe.

Misandry is much like "Racism against white people".

It can exist as an individual prejudice, but it has no systemic power behind it. It's not something we've been struggling with for a few hundred years. It's not baked into our system of governing and into our culture.

Equating individual prejudice with systemic oppression is a distraction, more often than not. (There are of course, places that men need help on, most notably recognition of men as devoted parents, and recognition that men should be able to express feelings) But treating "misogyny" and "misandry" as something that happen at nearly  the same scale for the same reasons is just... not real.

That being said... most of this would be better debated in a relevant thread, not a thread about a fairly minor rules change that basically says "Don't imply women as a class are worthless and don't joke about raping people."

It's not a minor rule change at all. If it was this thread wouldn't be getting the amount of responses it has. Changing the tune of conversation and censoring humor is a big thing for quite a few regular users of this site. People came here so they could post whatever bad joke or opinion they wanted to. How this will play in the long run will at least be interesting.


Yea, I have to agree -- this is not a "minor rules change" in any way.  It requires a level of self-censhorship that just hasn't occurred on this site before.  There are a *lot* of people who have posted the "40# Box" image, or refs. to Blazing Saddles, whereas the prior Fark rules were very limited in the type of content they proscribed (i.e., no nudity, gore, etc.) and affected very few people.

Hell, "UFIA" is a meme heavily associated with Fark, and it is -- by definition (i.e., "uninvited") -- rape.  The "Jane, you ignorant slut" shirt is in an ad rotation on the Fark main page.

Nobody is arguing that sexism/rape/etc. is a Good Thing, but the tenor of the change seems to be a complete proscription of satire that has anything to do with the topic.  That will definitely have a chilling effect, even on serious discussions, since humor/satire often makes a point in a way that is more effective than a direct, rational argument.
 
2014-08-18 5:59:33 PM  
8 votes:
Let's be honest. What this kind of white knight bullshiat usually ends up meaning is that any thoughtful, well-composed criticism of feminism will be deleted. Disagreeing with a Jezebel article will be interpreted as "victim blaming" and deleted.

I've had an account here for over ten years now, and the first time I get a post deleted by the thought police, I'm disabling the account, removing my bookmark, and heading to reddit where everyone can find subs whose moderation policies suit them. In the last decade, I have never seen anything like this before, promising to police tone and censor posts. I've seen people write blatantly racist shiat; I've seen people advocate letting dogs die in cars because windows are more valuable; I've seen every kind of unpopular opinion you could ever imagine. The punishment is meted out. Let the rest of the community stand up and embarrass people who say something stupid.
 
2014-08-18 3:46:06 PM  
8 votes:

LaMolecule: farkingismybusiness: I look at this site as a comedy website. I don't think anything should be off the table in comedy. Funny is funny.

You sound privileged.


mollyshields.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 3:37:54 PM  
8 votes:
Meh, every time there's a change in the Moderating rules this happens:

(1) Drew announces the change
(2) People lose their shiat.
(3) A couple people push teh new boundaries and are whacked on the hand by the moderators.
(4) After a few weeks, the hue & cry die down.
(5) F*ckwittery continues pretty much the same as before.
 
2014-08-18 2:56:35 PM  
8 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: How are we supposed to make fun of Republicans now?


By quoting them.
 
2014-08-18 2:56:06 PM  
8 votes:
i.imgur.comView Full Size


/Please no banhammering. It's. A. JOKE!@!
 
2014-08-18 2:53:18 PM  
8 votes:
And as for the racism and homophobia stuff... we're working on it.


Basically, it would be nice if folks could remember the Prime Directive: Don't be a dick.
 
2014-08-18 2:40:02 PM  
8 votes:

reillan: medius: good.

although rape jokes, i'll miss you most of all

What about man-on-man prison rape jokes.  Those are still cool, right?

/only one that's gotten me into the HOTY contest so far...


Nope. Rape jokes in general are out now. Thanks for giving us a chance to clarify though.
 
2014-08-18 2:39:32 PM  
8 votes:

medius: good.

although rape jokes, i'll miss you most of all


What about man-on-man prison rape jokes.  Those are still cool, right?

/only one that's gotten me into the HOTY contest so far...
 
2014-08-18 2:38:11 PM  
8 votes:
Should be some busy times in the Jezebel-hate threads.
 
2014-08-18 10:24:22 PM  
7 votes:
Oh, FFS. Gimme a break. This is a slippery slope and anyone with half a brain knows it. This place will be a quilting bee/tea social before you know it.

Bad call, Drew. Bad.
 
2014-08-18 7:19:43 PM  
7 votes:
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 5:36:14 PM  
7 votes:
Just wondering, what is the goal of all of this?

Is fark being sold to someone?  None of this makes sense with the way things usually run.  This sure sounds like being cleaned up for sale to me.
 
2014-08-18 4:59:42 PM  
7 votes:

Genevieve Marie: falcon176: it's hard to argue against the "lol misandry is fake" people when the mods delete every post addressing it, but yes you're right misandry doesn't exist because if you prove it does you just get censored, and censorship = winning

Misandry will be a thing when:

1) There have never been any men who are presidents of the United States
2) Almost all major religious figures world wide are women
3) Women make more money than men just because of our gender
4) Insert, etc, ad nauseam.


Probably there is a more sensitive way to put the "Don't be a dick thing"? I'm ok with "Don't be an asshole."

But Misandry? Is still not a thing.

Quit trying to make fetch happen. It's never going to happen.


This is precisely why you in particular should step down from "misogyny" judgments.

You are now actively punching down on many men, from many diverse backgrounds, all of whom are considerably less privileged than you.

That is not funny in any manner in my book.

/serious
 
2014-08-18 4:59:03 PM  
7 votes:

Genevieve Marie: But Misandry? Is still not a thing.


Just wanted to emphasize this post by one of the mods.

Good to know their motives.
 
2014-08-18 4:55:12 PM  
7 votes:

Genevieve Marie: But Misandry? Is still not a thing.

Quit trying to make fetch happen. It's never going to happen.


As a male who has been excluded legal avenues due to my sex in a custody battle...

And ~forced~ to take a $5000 anger management class when I reported being the VICTIM of domestic violence (because in Ohio men apparently can not be victims..and there is only one system .. so I HAD TO PAY ..and HAD TO GO) I sure as FARK hope you are kidding or you have NO business being a moderator on this or any other site.

/Feminist.
//Realist.
///Not a moron.
 
2014-08-18 4:27:24 PM  
7 votes:
 so you're going to delete comments referencing canola, meanwhile

1.  this is a site named fark
2. you have a filter that changes words to "boobies"
3. the mascot is a squirrel with big hanging balls
4. you have a linked porn site you own called Foobies
5. you have a store where you sell "Jane, you ignorant slut" t-shirts


and this is all in the name of stamping out misogyny?

did I miss anything?
 
2014-08-18 4:19:59 PM  
7 votes:
thoughtsfromaconservativemom.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 3:55:13 PM  
7 votes:

HawgWild: Is this one okay?

[s2.quickmeme.com image 355x355]


How about this?

morrissey-solo.comView Full Size


In November 1994 a photographer named Matt Kenlon met a homeless man named William Todd in the town of Biloxi, Mississippi.  Kenlon asked Todd if he could take some photos...

The whole "You gonna get raped" meme is old and busted.   It was a pictorial of a homeless man in a time of hardship.  People have been using his picture in a way that suggests that this man is going to rape people.  Posters think it's funny, but it really isn't.

When I saw the picture I knew that it was visually striking and that the photographer had captured a great image.  When did a black man with a hood on become the picture of a potential rapist?

People complain about photos being used out of context yet I can't go a week without seeing the "You gonna get raped" image.  It's time to grow the Fark up.
 
2014-08-18 3:32:00 PM  
7 votes:
IRONY ALERT

One of the references Drew uses as an example of what we're no longer allowed to say on Fark is one of the top selling t-shirts in the Fark.com store... http://shop.fark.com/product/Jane-You-Ignorant-Slut

END IRONY ALERT
 
2014-08-18 3:15:12 PM  
7 votes:

Sofa King Smart: Smeggy Smurf: How are we supposed to make fun of Republicans now?

... or even discuss their party platform that seems to consist mainly of misogyny (and rape)


Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Obvious ploy to silence Republican Farkers.


ParallelUniverseParking: Smeggy Smurf: How are we supposed to make fun of Republicans now?

By quoting them.


Deathfrogg: Kittypie070: *sniffs statement with mild cynicism*

Awright, I'll accept it at face value.

How about out and out constant lying?

Then we wouldn't see any of the conservatives' posts.


Eddie Adams from Torrance: You said ra...er.. nevermind.

As long as it's still OK to make fun of the mentally handicapped and tea partiers, I'll get over it.


GnomePaladin: Eddie Adams from Torrance: You said ra...er.. nevermind.

As long as it's still OK to make fun of the mentally handicapped and tea partiers, I'll get over it.

You said tea partiers twice.


DarkoMilicic: I thought the general consensus was that the tea partiers were mentally handicapped.


I'm glad that turning every farking thread into an anti-republican circle-jerk is still cool.

vbob: As long as we are all of one liberal mindset, then I guess it's okay.


... I guess it is what it is.
 
2014-08-18 2:52:19 PM  
7 votes:
I can't say I enjoy most of those jokes. They're pretty unoriginal. But censorship has never really had the desired effect of ending a particular use of language - it just gives that language more power.
 
2014-08-18 2:45:20 PM  
7 votes:

vbob: As long as we are all of one liberal mindset, then I guess it's okay.


Treating people with a little Human decency is a Liberal mindset now?

Oh, wait, yeah...
 
2014-08-18 2:43:17 PM  
7 votes:
As long as we are all of one liberal mindset, then I guess it's okay.
 
2014-08-18 9:11:12 PM  
6 votes:

heili skrimsli: Unless they're straight, white, able bodied, cisgendered, sexual, affluent men.Apparently it's still perfectly acceptable to attack them, given what Genevieve Marie has said in this thread.


In my brief discourse with GM where I expressed concern that as a mod I can't see how she can be unbiased or objective, I believe we surmised that anything against men is fair game except rape jokes. I don't believe she considers men as capable of being victims of rape, domestic violence, spousal abuse, etc. and therefore it's still OK to joke about such things as long as the target or victim is a man. Which is fine for GM as a person, she can be as bigoted as she wants to be, but for a mod I have a problem with that.
 
2014-08-18 7:42:43 PM  
6 votes:

Genevieve Marie: We don't have to enter an environment where people treat us in a more hostile way than they do others and take it just because that makes us strong.


Don't be daft.

What some of us are saying is that we already are strong and that we joined this site and its no-holds-barred discussion style in which anything could and would be a target for shiat slinging because we liked it that way.

It's not about having something to prove, or trying to 'make us strong'. I like smack talking, and the more offensive it is, the more I like it whether it's directed at me or not.

Then you come in, trying to save me from something that isn't a problem in the first place, and you think I should be thankful that you're making the world easier for me?

You are destroying the world that I was happy in. What in the world would make me thank you for that?

jso2897: I'm semi-educated, and not too smart, but i know enough not to pick my nose in public, or spit on the floor, and frankly, I've heard enough of the fratboy talk. It bores me. It bores me deeply, and intensely.


I came here for the fratboy talk.
 
2014-08-18 5:02:38 PM  
6 votes:
Genevieve Marie is objectively wrong about her views on misandry and should feel bad and embarrassed.
 
2014-08-18 4:32:02 PM  
6 votes:
So, let me sum up this thread:

Comment:                                                                Response:
"So much for free speech."                               --     "You sound like a Teabagger."
"I really didn't see this as a problem."               --     "You sound privileged."
"Geez, everybody needs to get thicker skin."   --     "MRA! MRA! MRA!!!!!!"
 
2014-08-18 3:45:21 PM  
6 votes:
I don't even recognize this place any more.
 
2014-08-18 3:40:36 PM  
6 votes:
You know, when you limit what people can or cannot say because someone, somewhere will be offended, nobody will be able to say anything at all. Thought policing is never a good idea.

Also, this:

Because People in power are Stupid: I guarantee from my brief interactions with the Modmin feminist jihad -that this won't be a crackdown on "rape jokes" but rather an excuse to censor political opinions.


The applause I see in this thread from the fark-feminista brigade certainly points in that direction. Oh well, we'll see how it works out.

/ah the glory days of Usenet...
//no more lincolnraperaperape.jpg
 
2014-08-18 3:38:44 PM  
6 votes:
This doesn't matter much to me. I never joke about rape. However, if you want Fark to become the flaccid visage of HuffPo's special needs little brother, you're on the right track to getting that done.
 
2014-08-18 3:37:46 PM  
6 votes:
Nothing gets me excited about a website/community like MORE moderation.

God forbid you just ignore the idiots and not let anonymous comments affect your state of mind. Oh, well.
 
2014-08-18 3:29:24 PM  
6 votes:
Just so I am clear, we can still make whatever jokes we want to about someone's death...unless that person paid $5/month to circle jerk in TFD, in that case our directive is to litter the main page with donation threads for that poor deceased soul's loved ones, right?

Classy.
 
2014-08-18 3:18:17 PM  
6 votes:
UFIA is a rape joke.

Fark has officially lapped itself.
 
2014-08-18 3:15:17 PM  
6 votes:

abhorrent1: We're gonna add misogyny to the guidelines because you're not allowed to have opinions our moderators don't agree with.


Yeah, it's a f*cking terrible thing that you have to agree not to hate women and make jokes about rape and domestic violence.

HOW DARE THEY BELIEVE IN BEING A DECENT HUMAN BEING?

If this pisses off misogynists enough to make them leave and head over to r/redpill, that would be awesome.
 
2014-08-18 3:12:06 PM  
6 votes:
We're gonna add misogyny to the guidelines because you're not allowed to have opinions our moderators don't agree with.
 
2014-08-18 3:04:14 PM  
6 votes:
Drew you've got to stop recruiting mods from women's studies classes. I know it's an easy way to pick up chicks but come on man.
 
2014-08-18 3:00:30 PM  
6 votes:

Genevieve Marie: And as for the racism and homophobia stuff... we're working on it.


Basically, it would be nice if folks could remember the Prime Directive: Don't be a dick.


Since Fark has started down the path...

Have you folks ever considered what that phrase is implying?
 
2014-08-18 2:49:32 PM  
6 votes:
Serious post:  I have noticed a few threads in TFD tab where "misogyny!" gets tossed around way to quickly and selectively, to boot.  sometimes women are the ones shouting "kick her int he tits!" and no one cares, but when a man says it, the Sensitivity Police come out.

it is a good idea in general, but i guess sad that we need a rule, as others have said, when ou'd think common sense would win the day.  but it is a slippery slope.  i get what you're saying, Drew, "avoid the grey area entirely" but that has a chilling effect, no?  if a woman is acting like a jackass and i say, "you're being a jackass", is that over the line?  it is like we're all going to have to be careful about saying anything at a point.
 
2014-08-18 2:48:34 PM  
6 votes:
I know I'm supposed to say great, that's wonderful, but seriously? There's no way this is going to work.
 
2014-08-18 2:48:25 PM  
6 votes:
I'm both happy these new guidelines are in place, and incredibly sad that they are necessary.
 
2014-08-18 2:47:25 PM  
6 votes:
Hey, that's cool! Maybe one of these days mods can address the rampant racism, too.

FARK: A place to learn how to call black people n**gers without actually using the word n**ger.
 
2014-08-18 2:45:57 PM  
6 votes:
There's enough stuff we can use to take shots at people regardless of gender (usually self-inflicted; see [FLORIDA] tag). Besides, "make me a sandwich" jokes were never funny.
 
2014-08-19 3:23:32 AM  
5 votes:
Senior Farker here. I really don't understand the intentional nuance of the decision here. Why not just say rape jokes and clearly sex descrimination jokes (of any gender) are not acceptable? Boom. Done.

I suppose I'll miss the bratty girl image of "Welcome to Fark", but yeah 40 Lbs and the hooded guy were, I'm sure, offensive to many - no doubt. Sexual harassment and rape is really not a laughing matter, but when you try to half ass define misogyny while keeping it vague, it really does inspire some minor form of revolt. Seriously, I'd back track at this point and just define what is and is not acceptable. Modify policy if needed later. Wipe hands on pants.

That said, I don't necessarily care about this specific topic; I haven't been so involved lately to see the problems as it has become some kind of crisis (?). The backbone of this site has always been the offensive headline. Not click bait, but something so untimely to always bring up the question of "too soon"? A march towards PC is a march towards this site's irrelevance. I've been here long enough care about the global changes (I got over it), but if this is truly a march towards a happy, touchy feely place, then we are witnessing the end and I'll miss it.

All this over a basic respect towards women? Nope. I just wish there was more thought put into this instead of such vague and hypocritical statements. Spell out the memes and statements that are no longer acceptable. There are enough examples, and again, redefine if necessary. People don't like vague rules and 4000+ comments seem to be crying out for a more crystalized definition of what the new status quo is going to be.
 
2014-08-19 12:17:54 AM  
5 votes:
Hey all!

Just wanted to say thanks to the number of people who replied that they enjoyed my post! I rather figured I'd get assailed by PC crowd for it, so you've given me, as Robin Williams so eloquently put it, "Some farking hope." That was awesome.

 And extra thanks for the TF subscription! I've been here for a long time now (checks profile) Ten years? Holy... 

 ... but I've never gone to the darkside. Thank you! I look forward to checking it out!


To the...I think it was 2 posters who commented in the negative. I'll address you briefly, mostly because you think you have an argument, but for the *most* part... no. (One part, yes.)

-Main point: It's Drew's site, he can do what he wants with it. 

 Nowhere did I say that he couldn't or that it wasn't. I merely pointed out that what he was doing was insulting and stupid (read illogical because we have a block feature). He is completely free to be insulting about it. welcometofark.jpg.

-Second point: It's not your cause

 Oh contrare! If it has to do with women, it most certainly *is* my cause. I'm a woman. Therefore, if it's an issue that deals with women, I have full rights to voice my opinion on it just like every woman. You may disagree my view point, that's totally fine. But telling me to go away, because I'm saying something you don't like? Nope, sorry. Not a rational response. Lose one turn and try again.

-Third point: Duration of time on Fark and responses to women.

This one actually has some logical merit to it. Seeing whether things are getting "worse" for certain members. That's quantifiable! 

 As you can see by my above post, I've been here for 10 years. And frankly, fark used to be much much "worse". Before all the ads and stuff came up we had all kinds of crazy shiat going on in here. And that's why a good portion of us came here in the first place. Anonymous crazy shiat that nobody took too seriously. 

Now take a look at my post for a second. I blatantly admitted to being a woman. And yet, no one has given me crap for it. In fact, for the most part I got hugely positive responses. If fark is such a misogynistic cess pot, you'd think at least one or two would ask me what I was wearing or tell me to get back in the kitchen. 

But nope, that didn't happen. Because, humans being what we are, we tend to respect an honest show of strength. Even if it's a point we don't agree with. 

And for women, strong and smart is the new sexy.

/I just wish more of them tried it.
//and now, I'm off to dinner. Night all!
 
2014-08-18 11:12:40 PM  
5 votes:

RoyBatty: What I see as taking FARK down is

+ all of the speech policing in threads
+ you are a racist!
+ you are a sexist!
+ you are a concern troll!
+ you are a denier!


Yup. This stuff has gotten oppressively common. And I don't mean that ironically. Fark doesn't have that many actual, right-out-loud bigots. Even in the most heated threads, there's never more than a handful.

What it does have these days, in heaping amounts, are a bunch of self-righteous little prigs who seem to think their (delicate) personal sensibilities are the definitive arbiter of what is and isn't worthwhile speech...

/And, unfortunately, it would appear that their numbers might be over-represented among the moderators.
 
2014-08-18 9:54:27 PM  
5 votes:
And I just wanna throw this out there. How about for the next week or so you guys just highlight stuff that would fall under the "new" rules in comic sans ms in bright red?

I'm completely serious. Keep it lighthearted for a few days, show everyone what's not cool then go forth and machete the place up?
 
2014-08-18 9:08:27 PM  
5 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: Oh, I get it. The evil feminists of Fark, it all makes sense now.


"Give me an example."

"Here's one from this thread."

"No! You can't use that one! That doesn't count!"

farking hell This is why I can't stand feminists.

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: As a woman,


And why is your female opinion more valid than mine?

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: hypersensitivity to this new rule is breathtaking in its blind ignorance to its role in helping making women look like hypersensitive jerks.


You have decided that the appropriate means by which to attack my opinion that the rule against misogyny is sexiest in its treatment of women as overly delicate is to call me what amounts to a crazy, over-reactive female? Okaaaaaay. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Mine is that a rule against 'misogyny' in which 'misogyny' means 'if we can interpret your post as offensive towards women regardless of any other meaning that it might have, we will ban that speech' is sexist and insulting because it creates a protected class - women - which must be shielded from another class.

But you know, feel free to just keep calling me hypersensitive.

cfletch13: First of all, I don't know why you think the use of snowflake was appropriate.


Usually I'm the one that gets called snowflake. It's like the 21st century's version of chill girl.
 
2014-08-18 8:27:40 PM  
5 votes:
Hey guys, remember when the whole appeal of Fark was that it was generally assumed to be offensive?

I miss those days. This whole "we will ban you for being offensive" thing is weapons-grade stupid.
 
2014-08-18 6:20:41 PM  
5 votes:
You know what this reminds me of? When the NCAA said they were not trying to make money off of student athletes.

http://shop.fark.com/product/Jane-You-Ignorant-Slut

/probably should have deleted this first
//but no, it's not like you had time or anything
 
2014-08-18 6:12:27 PM  
5 votes:
Ok, seriousness time for a moment:

I've posted a few attempted funnies in the thread so far, but it's time for a little reality check for everyone.  This change, on the surface, is about misogyny, but it's much deeper than that.  It's not about men vs women, or liberal vs conservatism, or free speech vs censorship.  It's not about money or whether Genevieve Marie is a man-hater.  It's about 1 thing and 1 thing only:



THIS IS DREW'S SITE AND HE CAN DO WHATEVER THE FARK HE WANTS WITH IT


This is not a democracy.  He may value the input of the consumers of the site, but in the long run, it's his decision and his alone.  "But abmoraz!  We pay his bills!  We drive the ad revenue and send our $5/mo for TotalFark!  We run it!"  Keep telling yourselves this.  Go ask yourself how much Wal*Mart gives a crap about your thoughts on it if/when you shop there.  You are the customer, not the administrator.  Deal with it.  Being powerless sucks, but it's the truth.  And, no matter how much money a place makes, it can disappear over night if the people that run it decide it's not worth the hassle anymore.  Don't believe me? Look at JustinTV.  2 weeks ago, they just shut down.  No warning, no nothing.  Just a video on the home page saying "so long, and thanks for all the fish."  Left over 900,000 regular users without a second thought.

I have never met Genevieve Marie, netweavr, Unfreakable, Drew, xandian, or any of the other owners/mods/admins and I'm not here to white-knight for them, but the way they've been treated by a small by a small percentage of people in this thread is fairly appalling.  Moderators are basically rule enforcement.  They are forum cops.  And I know it's cool to hate the Po-Po, but it's still no excuse to take it out on them when they are just trying to do their jobs.  They have guidelines and rules, but are left with a fair amount of judgement on their own.  That's life.  Lay-off them a bit and appreciate that they keep the real crazies at bay.  The rest of you having a minor tantrum today don't need to add to it.

I understand what they are going through.  I am a moderator for a much smaller community and we went through minor rule changes like this over our 8 year history with results pretty similar to this.  We had regulars who tried to circumvent every attempt at bringing civility.  We even lost some permanently, but they were eventually replaced with newer members that were OK with the rules.  We eventually stopped having individual rules at all and switched it 2 very simple rules: "Don't be a dick to other members of the site, even if they deserve it (unless its really humorous and the target can take the joke)" and "Don't piss of the mods".  That's it.  No legalese and trying to cover all contingencies.  No "I *technically* didn't break the rule, so you can't mute me!" arguments.  Don't be a dick.  Don't piss me off.  That's it.  If you pretty much live by those rules on any chat site, you'll be ok.

/End Rant
 
2014-08-18 5:59:39 PM  
5 votes:

Cynicism101: I presume this might be a way to make women (like me) feel more comfortable here, and thus shell out for a membership. Think of this way: about 25% of women experience sexual violence in their lifetime. As many find casual rape jokes depressing/triggering/infuriating, that's a pretty huge chunk of the population that Fark is missing out on.


Drop the Woozle, for one. Your statistic is a damn lie, started by Mary Koss and then embellished and morphed over time into being more and more sensational every year.

And, by the way, I'm female. I just recently re-upped my TF, prior to the announcement of this rule.

If the rule is still here when it's time to re-up again, I won't be.

jst3p:
I see her like I see some farkers when it comes to racism. They are ALWAYS pointing out, sometimes they are right but sometimes they are overzealous.

She is like that with misogyny.


She sees misogyny everywhere because she wants to see misogyny everywhere. She sees it where it is, and where it isn't. People like her, always looking for a reason to be offended, ruin everything they touch eventually.

It doesn't stop her and PsiChick from both telling me that I am just too stupid to recognize when someone is being sexist against me or harassing me. And they're serious when they say this.
 
2014-08-18 5:37:34 PM  
5 votes:

rostit: netweavr: rostit: But its still encouraged to be racist here right?

Mandatory, of course.

TheDumbBlonde: Drew, did you put this nutjob on the payroll??

oddly enough the day I noticed TF and then TFD to start to go downhill was the day she was made a mod.

Starry was a great choice but GM is a nitwit


Agreed 100%. Genevieve Marie has ruined Fark more than any of the many ruiners.
 
2014-08-18 5:35:59 PM  
5 votes:

Glendale: This. Someone from Fark who is a higher up than GM needs to address this if they're even reading the details. Someone made her a mod, gave her power, and this is how she feels about men. How can anyone seriously think she's going to apply this new rule in an objective manner?


This.

She's made her stance on this subject all too clear, both in here and in the past. She's entirely inappropriate to be overseeing this topic.

Drew, we could use a response.

And yes, I'm sure people will send emails about it to him.
 
2014-08-18 5:26:25 PM  
5 votes:
OK, so there is a new rule that the mods wont enforce equally unless it suits them

big f*cking deal.  This site is still racist and sexist. In fact by making this an issue its more misogynistic.  The girls cant stand up for themselves?

How about making rules that mods can follow or holding them accountable when they f*ck up?

this place can continue to swirl the drain.  good riddence
 
2014-08-18 5:22:43 PM  
5 votes:
mediablitz:But to just outright say it doesn't even exist? What kind of willfully ignorant, sexist crap is that?

GM's a mod, that's why. She can get away with it and Drew is fine with that apparently.
 
2014-08-18 5:17:28 PM  
5 votes:

jst3p: KatjaMouse: gimmegimme: Further, you don't seem to want equal "protection" for men on Fark. Why is that?

I think Genevieve Marie outlined it pretty succinctly:

Misandry will be a thing when:
1) There have never been any men who are presidents of the United States
2) Almost all major religious figures world wide are women
3) Women make more money than men just because of our gender
4) Insert, etc, ad nauseam.

As for equal protection I'm definitely for calling farkers out or deleting comments that are hostile towards men that aren't "manly" or are "sissies". However, on Fark, male commentators don't really need much in the way of protection or intervention on their behalf.

Women don't "need" it either, it is an anonymous website. The fact that someone thinks they "need" it actually belittles women.


But how will women ever be equal if we don't treat them differently?
 
2014-08-18 5:17:03 PM  
5 votes:
I don't see the point of making this change at all.  You will never make everyone happy and someone will always be offended at something.  Going down that path is going to make this website worse.  You can already ignore users you don't like, that should be enough.
 
2014-08-18 5:08:03 PM  
5 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Misandry will be a thing when:

1) There have never been any men who are presidents of the United States
2) Almost all major religious figures world wide are women
3) Women make more money than men just because of our gender
4) Insert, etc, ad nauseam.


Probably there is a more sensitive way to put the "Don't be a dick thing"? I'm ok with "Don't be an asshole."

But Misandry? Is still not a thing.

Quit trying to make fetch happen. It's never going to happen.


I must say, Genevieve Marie, I do think you need to step back from judging any misogynistic comments since you yourself don't believe misandry exists.

It'd be like if a black person said to a Chinese person that racism doesnt exist for Chinese people because black people get a lot more abuse.

There isn't a 100% misogynistic/0% misandristic environment on Fark. To enforce this new policy with such a biased opinion is going to cause unrest.
 
2014-08-18 5:03:27 PM  
5 votes:
Misogyny, racism, or whatever-bad-ism according to whom, Drew?  What about straight-hate?  Can we ban the word "breeders"?  How about misandry, do we care about that?  How about "cocksucker"?  Not only misogynist, but anti-gay and anti-bisexual-men.

 I recommend that when encountering grey areas, instead of trying to figure out where the actual line is, the best strategy would be to stay out of the grey area entirely.

Yeah, that's not going to dry up provocative or insightful commenting on some topics at all *rolls eyes*.

I see Foobies.com is still up.  You don't find an entire splinter website, with integrated links and logins to Fark, that looks like Fark, with tons of objectifying imagery of women, that you only splintered off due to advertising pressure, just a little out of line with your stated anti-misogynist ethos?  I think you'll find that view out of line of the mainstream feminist view of pornography and misogyny, and I think you'd find most women find porn in bad taste in general, if not oppressive/degrading, so I don't think you are doing this because you are suddenly sympathetic with women and what they feel.

How about you just ban hate speech?  That's clear, unambiguous, and there's little to no debate on that.  Oh look, that was already there,  right before this new rule.

Pray tell, what exactly are you wanting to ban that hate speech doesn't cover, but misogyny does... considering that misogyny is, quite literally in the original Greek, "hate of women?"

Seriously, Drew... I understand neither your motives, your rationale, nor your strategy here.
 
2014-08-18 4:58:47 PM  
5 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Misandry will be a thing when:

1) There have never been any men who are presidents of the United States
2) Almost all major religious figures world wide are women
3) Women make more money than men just because of our gender
4) Insert, etc, ad nauseam.


Probably there is a more sensitive way to put the "Don't be a dick thing"? I'm ok with "Don't be an asshole."

But Misandry? Is still not a thing.

Quit trying to make fetch happen. It's never going to happen.


You can't hand-wave something away because it's not in the places you're looking.  Things like the education gap are real problems that aren't going to manifest themselves fully for another decade or so.
 
2014-08-18 4:58:39 PM  
5 votes:

Genevieve Marie: falcon176: it's hard to argue against the "lol misandry is fake" people when the mods delete every post addressing it, but yes you're right misandry doesn't exist because if you prove it does you just get censored, and censorship = winning

Misandry will be a thing when:

1) There have never been any men who are presidents of the United States
2) Almost all major religious figures world wide are women
3) Women make more money than men just because of our gender
4) Insert, etc, ad nauseam.


Probably there is a more sensitive way to put the "Don't be a dick thing"? I'm ok with "Don't be an asshole."

But Misandry? Is still not a thing.

Quit trying to make fetch happen. It's never going to happen.


None of those reasons have anything to do with hating men because they were unfortunate enough to have been born that way. Misandry doesn't need a reason just like misogyny. The fact that you won't even hear the male side of it shows your leanings toward misandry.

Delete/Ban away.
 
2014-08-18 4:57:26 PM  
5 votes:
I ask with all due respect:

Are admins really allowed to engage in the same discussions they're moderating?  It seems kinda strange to be able to make YOUR point and then simply delete anyone who disagrees.
 
2014-08-18 4:21:27 PM  
5 votes:
"Welcome to Fark" no longer means what it means...
 
2014-08-18 4:17:21 PM  
5 votes:
It's lovely to see Gawker Media have an effect on a site I actually care about.

No, wait. No it's not.

It's too difficult to recognize satire / sarcasm in a thread compared to other forms of media? Seriously, that's the line you're trotting out?

I see one of the admins above referencing context being a factor, but Drew explicitly stated that's something that can't be taken into account.

So which is it?

/in before welcome to fark.
//been here longer than nearly all of you..
 
2014-08-18 4:13:04 PM  
5 votes:

stir22: Drew: Things that aren't acceptable:

- Rape jokes
- Calling women as a group "whores" or "sluts" or similar demeaning terminology
- Jokes suggesting that a woman who suffered a crime was somehow asking for

good for you, Drew.  now if you'll exercise the same guidelines about people with Down's syndrome, you'll gladly get my 50 bucks a year back.  Posting a picture of someone with trisomy-21 with the caption "i can count to potato" is, to me, just as much over the line.


The slippery slope that will make this place less and less relevant.

There are a shiat ton of sites I could go to get links to news. This one is my home because I like to read the funny. Sometimes I attempt to be the funny. Sometimes I am even successful. Go ahead and one by one make it a place where no one is allowed to be offended and see what this place becomes.
 
2014-08-18 4:10:59 PM  
5 votes:
The PLUG I just saw two threads above this one on the Main page:

LITTLE MISS S#&TSTORM: UK Mom Dresses 4-Year-Old Daughter as Hooters Girl for Kiddy Pageant. On Your Mark, Get Set, Sexploitation!

Clean up your own house first, Drew.
 
2014-08-18 4:08:26 PM  
5 votes:

Moderator: Here is the text we added to the Farq.  You'll notice it covers more than just misogyny.

Sexism, Racism and LGBT bashing: Fark is a humor site, and we've done more than our fair share at poking fun of others, often for what they've done, sometimes for what they've said, occasionally because they look funny. Fark has long prided itself on being irreverent and sarcastic.
That said, there are still some things that cross the line, and misogyny, racism and LGBT bashing are some of them. So just to be clear: these things will not be tolerated.
We know that on the internet, it's impossible to know the difference between a person with hateful views and a person lampooning hateful views to make a point. The mods try to be reasonable, and context often matters. We will try and determine what you meant, but that's not always a pass. If your post can be taken one of two ways, and one of those ways can be interpreted as misogynistic, racist, or LGBT bashing, the mods may delete it and could even give you a timeout--even if that wasn't your intent.


Why stop there?

Why not take every instance of bigotry of any kind and stamp it out, bring down the iron fist upon it and upon its proponents? Those consistently anti-Semitic people are still around. People that like to say that every person that watches a NASCAR race are rednecked slack jawed yokels. What about those gay hipsters that constantly refer to "The Breeders" as a sub group? And while I'm at it, what about people that consider gay hipsters a sub group?

If Fark is still going to have a Foobies tab then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
 
2014-08-18 3:56:53 PM  
5 votes:
This should be an interesting experiment of sorts.  I think this is a qualitatively different restriction than the others.  The others (no racial slurs, kiddie porn, etc) was pretty limited in scope.  This not only hits at "what qualifies as misogyny?" but directly impacts things meant to be, and often found to be, funny.  Whether or not it represents reality, the impression many will get from this is there's going to be some kind of feminist censor (of unknown feminist subgroup) that will be looking over our collective shoulders.

So, yeah, this will likely trigger an immediate positive response from many feminist sites (though I imagine some will either be skeptical, or claim even these changes don't go far enough), and will piss off quite a few people who don't like the change, or feel it will have a chilling effect.  The advertisers will probably be happy in the short term, as Fark is now less likely to host a conversation that will trigger a feminist boycott.  But in the medium to long term, it's harder to say.  If there really is an impression that we aren't free to make jokes or express unpopular opinions, it may reduce site traffic, especially in the comments.  And it's not too hard to see this as the camel's nose under the tent, with women being the first group to get protected status, and race/religion/class/age/political affiliation/etc not far behind.  Once that happens, any opinion or joke that isn't completely benign will face self-censorship before even being submitted.  This site would lose what makes it worth going to.  Nobody would be offended, but nobody would be interested in coming here and posting, either.

I've been here for well over a decade now, and I'm really curious to see how this plays out.
 
2014-08-18 3:52:30 PM  
5 votes:
This seems more to silence criticisms of feminism and politics.

Yeah there are some rape jokes , either repeating well established movie quotes and memes or just bad attempts .

Most of the time I am taken aback by the vicious uglyness of the feminists and those on the left when a Jezebel or the Guardian or some other mainstream Feminist makes a unbelievable statement.

There are some people like Roy Batty who make good arguments and it is an interesting debate.

This place is going down hill
 
2014-08-18 3:50:48 PM  
5 votes:
img.fark.netView Full Size

 
2014-08-18 3:45:09 PM  
5 votes:

AgentPothead: This though? This is nothing more than a feel good bandaid to make Drew feel like he's done something to change something he can't.


He's moderating a platform he personally can control so that it doesn't simply become a dumping ground for angry, misogynistic dudes when the moment (or the right story) strikes.  As a long time female Farker, it's a good thing. Just because he can't fix all of the misogyny in the entire world doesn't mean he shouldn't even bother with improving things that ARE within his control. Baby steps, people.
 
2014-08-18 3:40:29 PM  
5 votes:
If we take pictures wearing many of the shirts found here, can we be banned?

https://shop.fark.com/catg/Fark
 
2014-08-18 3:21:10 PM  
5 votes:
If the DON'T BE A DICK rule was applied to all posts (not just misogyny), Fark would cease to exist overnight.
 
2014-08-18 3:18:24 PM  
5 votes:
Misandry still A-OK. Wow, Fark...never thought you go Facebook on us with this bullshiat.
 
2014-08-18 3:17:06 PM  
5 votes:
Say, remember when we weren't all a bunch of twitchy babies getting offended over every damn thing? Good times, those.
 
2014-08-18 3:03:20 PM  
5 votes:
Ok, cool. Because some people are raging asshole.

But, on that same topic, what about misandry? As much as some threads being out the people who are extremely demeaning to women other threads being out people who are extremely demeaning to men. Certain threads have people who treat/call out/accuse all men of being rapists or rapists in waiting. As much as it's not fair or civil to treat all women as sluts, etc isn't just as demeaning to accuse and treat all men as abusers, attackers, and rapists/sexual assaulters. And people get called a "MRA" if they dare mention legitimate issues that effect men. I'm not saying that societal issues effecting men and women are equal, but there are ones that effect each gender individually for the most part.

Any comment about that,  Drew?

I wouldn't be surprised I get called a MRA over this question... and it would pretty much be what I'm talking about.

Thanks.

/Egalitarian
 
2014-08-18 2:59:28 PM  
5 votes:
I'm sure this won't be arbitrarily enforced, at all.
 
2014-08-18 2:58:27 PM  
5 votes:

Drew: Adding misogyny to Fark moderator guidelines.

Don't forget to add

misandry.
 
2014-08-18 2:53:17 PM  
5 votes:
What about the same dozen accounts that derail every political thread available by intentionally posting something false/stupid/repeatedly debunked yesterday/links to their own site/quote mined nonsense?

They still allowed?
 
2014-08-18 2:46:57 PM  
5 votes:

fireclown: had this really been THAT big of a problem?  More than the myriad of other shiatshows, that is.


It has gotten out of hand lately.  Do you never venture over to the politics tab and view the contraception, Republican that said rape again, or abortion threads?
 
2014-08-18 2:44:51 PM  
5 votes:

reillan: Genevieve Marie: reillan: medius: good.

although rape jokes, i'll miss you most of all

What about man-on-man prison rape jokes.  Those are still cool, right?

/only one that's gotten me into the HOTY contest so far...

Nope. Rape jokes in general are out now. Thanks for giving us a chance to clarify though.

This is really a good thing... I mean, there are some things that we might find classically funny that would get caught up in it, but... it's important that we take a stand to try to eliminate this kind of crap, even when it's "all in good fun"... because it's never good nor fun.


Tell it to George Carlin and his joke about Elmer Fudd and Porky Pig.
 
2014-08-18 2:43:21 PM  
5 votes:

Genevieve Marie: reillan: medius: good.

although rape jokes, i'll miss you most of all

What about man-on-man prison rape jokes.  Those are still cool, right?

/only one that's gotten me into the HOTY contest so far...

Nope. Rape jokes in general are out now. Thanks for giving us a chance to clarify though.


This is really a good thing... I mean, there are some things that we might find classically funny that would get caught up in it, but... it's important that we take a stand to try to eliminate this kind of crap, even when it's "all in good fun"... because it's never good nor fun.
 
2014-08-18 2:42:53 PM  
5 votes:

Drew: He Man Woman Hater's Haters Club


Fixed.
 
2014-08-18 2:41:13 PM  
5 votes:
I would also like to recommend adding the words "overly sensitive", or the act of calling someone "overly sensitive" (or any variation thereof) to that list of unacceptable items.

It hurts my feelings when someone calls me overly sensitive.
 
2014-08-18 2:40:31 PM  
5 votes:
img4.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size

I like tasteless humor, I could do without the people who are just plain tasteless, though.

/ they require way too much salt to be palatable
 
2014-08-18 2:39:42 PM  
5 votes:
Thanks to Drew and the Mod team.
 
2014-08-18 2:38:20 PM  
5 votes:
Stampeding Cattle through the Vatican still OK, though?
 
2014-08-19 5:14:42 PM  
4 votes:

ZAZ: HeWhoHasNoName: ZAZ: willfullyobscure: Good thing Fark retains its delightfully misogynistic filter for "Boobies" that objectifies women and dates back to when Fark was a casual softcore porn site(that site was spun off to foobies.com, FYI and still operated for profit by the Fark team).

Boobies links on the main page were a mix of casual stuff and porn. The first day I found Fark one of the links on the main page was to an open directory of naked pictures. I remember that pic of [redacted]'s topless step-sister...

Now Foobies links have to be boring but safe from reputable professional porn providers. I guess it pays the bills. But put it back on the main page and it wouldn't be the same.



Th main point here is that if Drew actually wanted Fark.com to not "be the He Man Woman Hater's Club", and improve the atmosphere for women online he could make a much bigger, material statement by y'know, NOT RUNNING A PORN SITE instead of arbitrary rules about how thou shalt not offend, subject to the caprices of amateur moderators on a satirical message board.

So which one is it gonna be, Drew? thought policing to pretend you care about women's issues while you operate a porn site, or do the right thing and stop exploiting women for profit?

Tying to make a 'safe space online' for women while simultaneously lining your pocket objectifying women are not morally reconcilable actions, and this rules change is absolutely hollow while that stands. And you could at the very least fix your own misogynistic filters before you do such a silly thing.
 
2014-08-19 3:46:53 AM  
4 votes:

Fafai: Why would anyone be anti feminism?


Because feminists tend to attack two of the basic tenets of western civilisation: Free speech and the presumption of innocence. That's why. Feminism is not about equality.

Also, nobody likes a whiny victim cult.

i560.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-19 3:00:59 AM  
4 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Sometimes, you go "You know what, this is bullshiat" and you do your best to make sure that the playing field gets leveled.


Reality does not have level playing fields.

i560.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-19 12:57:16 AM  
4 votes:

Drew: Adding misogyny to Fark moderator guidelines...


As I am all for making the world a kinder, gentler place, there are certain people out there that need to be set fire to in an effort to protect the rest of the planet from them.   If I respond to someone's idiocy by remarking: "You really are a dumb c**t, aren't you?", does that make me a misogamist?  I'm not saying that everyone woman is a dumb c**t, just this particular specimen I would be referring to.  In fact I would be separating this person out from the rest of her gender and pointing out that what she had said/done was so asinine that it made her whole gender look bad, but I would not go to say that all women were dumb c**ts.  It is hate, but it is hating on a specific individual for a reason that makes the entire group they belong to look bad.

It is just like some posters calling all Bronies or Furries pedophiles and other horrible stuff for their own personal self gratification.  Are you going to have the moderators take down posts that make fun of Bronies or Furries?  Hell no.  In fact that we have thicker hides than most people, we can snark back just as effectively or even more so on our own.  There is a level of abuse that should not be tolerated -- The Free Cat Line, if you will -- but being made fun of is a lot different than being cruel as sadistic as possible to someone for what they are.

Too often people here will get butthurt over something that they should have no reason to be butthurt over, but will go out of their way to inform the world why this was so offensive and the poster of it should have their naughty bits chopped off in punishment.  Preferable publicly.  And yet, I have seen stuff on Fark that no normal social group should allow being posted, but hardly anyone bats an eye over it.  What I am trying to get at is that having a rule that is to protect a segment of society from feeling violated can be a good thing, but it can lead to having that rule used to violate individuals or groups for no other reason than someone's personal twisted hatred .

We can self-police ourselves, and sometimes we have a bad day and post something retarded.  Then there was Ha-Ha guy... If there is a specific issue that needs to be addressed, then Fark is the perfect forum to address it in.  We are assholes, and every post defines what kind of assholes we are, and there are assholes out there that are too big of an asshole even for Fark.  I have a deep loathing and resentment for Trekkies, but only on the mindless consumer-driven level they exist on where their shallow devotion to their interest shows.  But that is my issue, and I only point out how horrible they are in an effort for them to take the opportunity to make something better of themselves, like actually making a functional warp drive or a holodeck instead of just stating how cool it would be to have one.

So Drew, be careful with this.  I know your have your own reasons for it and I don't really care what they are, but limiting freedom to placate someone feelings can lead down a path no one should want to go down.    It's that button on a pedestal that makes the most annoying sound in the universe -- we all want to push it, to the point where blood will be shed.  Don't take the button away, just set up a cue line and limit the times we get to press it.  Misogyny is the new bad thing we can't do, but make sure that you really define what it will cover.  Otherwise, no more of this:
undergradrag.files.wordpress.comView Full Size

Because that picture can be viewed as treating a woman or women as a sex object, and sexual objectification is considered misogynistic.

Oh, and on Avatars, it would be okay, but make them unobtrusive and integrated into the Fark layout style, and include a way for us to turn them off if we just don't want to see them.
 
2014-08-18 10:21:22 PM  
4 votes:
Drew, Unfreakable, James!, Genevieve Marie, xadian, PunkRockGirl, et. al.,

When I've had comments deleted (not comments replying to others though), I have ALWAYS gotten the message and can completely see why you did what you did.  [iaintevenmad.jpg]

All "I'm just a caveman" snarkiness aside, I think I get what you're doing and honestly don't see how this will have any bearing on what I post.  If I step out of line I'll know it. This isn't a 1st amendment issue.  This is a Fark community (Drew's house) issue.  I pay for the TF (and sponsor liberally) because it has the atmosphere I like.  After over a decade you've pretty well proven your intent and I still see it as being worth paying for.

So put me in the camp that welcomes our new anti-misogyny overlords.  I know we're an unruly bunch that poses a great challenge to moderate, and sometimes you'll be overly cautious.  Sometimes bad shiat will slip through.  It's to be expected.  Keep the tone right, maintain long-standing priorities, and I'll stick around

BUT I SWEAR TO EVER-LOVING GOD THAT IF YOU BRING AVATARS INTO THIS I WILL RAGE QUIT SO HARD YOU'LL WISH IT WAS A RACIST WOMAN-HATING JEW AND ARAB-BASHING, SPAMMING, HACKING, PATENT-TROLLING  LAWYER FLOODING YOUR SERVERS INSTEAD.

XOXOXOXO,
doyner
 
2014-08-18 10:13:34 PM  
4 votes:
Can  cuzsis please be a moderator to balance out the unfunny, thin-skinned and pseudointellectual Other Mod?
 
2014-08-18 9:52:44 PM  
4 votes:

James!: We added racism and gay bashing to the farq at the same time. Check the Farq for the new stuff.  We focused on misogyny in this thread because racism has previously been covered under hate speech but it wasn't clear (to us or the users) if we meant outright slurs or more subtle racist shiat.  We're going to start swinging the hammer more frequently and clear out the stormfront crap.


What an awful lot of us are concerned about is that it was a one-sided approach to sexism.
Make it about sexism in general! If you say that you're going to police comments against one gender only, you're offering immunity and unaccountability to one gender but not to the other. The internet is one big anonymous ball of people. If a few intentionally offensive men are speaking more loudly than women, encourage women to speak up rather than gagging everyone on the site about one gender. If I were to casually drop the line "biatches be crazy" in a thread about Floridians drinking their own piss to scare away hurricanes, I could get a timeout or a ban, since 'biatch' is a term often used for women.

Do you see where some of us are concerned? By adding in gender clauses, this is no longer a place where we ALL can speak our minds. I don't try to intentionally offend the opposite sex but it COULD happen if someone got rustled the wrong way and those innocent-sounding comments could result in a whole bunch of farkers getting punished by mods/admins with chips on their shoulders. Sure it will get rid of a lot of the intentionally offensive posters, but as GM has already made clear, she has a bias against men which leaves any actions taken by her as biased and most likely unfair actions. Who polices the police especially when all the police are friends?.
 
2014-08-18 9:21:49 PM  
4 votes:
Hey Admins,

Will it be okay to quote Ray Bradbury in Fahrenheight 451? Or only okay if we call him a racist shiatlord?

i.imgur.comView Full Size

i.imgur.comView Full Size

i.imgur.comView Full Size

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 9:15:48 PM  
4 votes:
It's interesting that moderation is hyper-sensitive about misogyny, but tone-deaf on racism. Perhaps if minorities were a significant part of the membership, Fark wouldn't be forever working on a problem that is at least equally as prevalent on Fark than misogyny.

Serious question: how many black moderators and admins do we have right now?
 
2014-08-18 9:15:38 PM  
4 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Glendale: heili skrimsli: Unless they're straight, white, able bodied, cisgendered, sexual, affluent men.Apparently it's still perfectly acceptable to attack them, given what Genevieve Marie has said in this thread.

In my brief discourse with GM where I expressed concern that as a mod I can't see how she can be unbiased or objective, I believe we surmised that anything against men is fair game except rape jokes. I don't believe she considers men as capable of being victims of rape, domestic violence, spousal abuse, etc. and therefore it's still OK to joke about such things as long as the target or victim is a man. Which is fine for GM as a person, she can be as bigoted as she wants to be, but for a mod I have a problem with that.

Do you guys honestly think that if I were as crazy as you seem to think I am that I would have been kept around as long as I have been?

I mean, seriously. We do have some behind the scenes accountability. If I'd ever gone on some mad, power hungry spree, I promise it would not have lasted.

I can think your opinions are asinine without punishing you personally for them.

In fact, my exceedingly patient demeanor is what makes me so suitable to calmly allowing for attacks on my character, person, and ideas while adhering to normal policies and procedures.


Would you like some help carrying that cross?
 
2014-08-18 9:05:19 PM  
4 votes:

heili skrimsli: Unless they're straight, white, able bodied, cisgendered, sexual, affluent men.Apparently it's still perfectly acceptable to attack them, given what Genevieve Marie has said in this thread.


So you know where I'm coming from...

I'm a single father of two girls with the closest family member 1500 miles away.  I'm the one who had to talk to them about their periods.  I'm the one who has to talk to them about shaving and hygiene.  I'm the one who has to be aware of his sensitivity and words.  I'm the one who has to watch his every action so his daughters know what a real man is supposed to be.

Me.

You know what my reward for that is?  Constant judging, ostracizing, outcast, hate.

That's it.  From both sides.

Women hate me because I have a dick and they assume immediately that I'm a lecherous pig.

Men talk to me and, because I'm more sensitive and less like them, they ostracize me, constantly making fun of me because I'm not into sports.

Gay guys hate me because they can't figure out why I want to hang out with them but not do anything.

I can't make friends because I put my daughters first and I will never feel bad or resent that.

I'm only saying this because I hope it helps know that I understand pain and that is why I am against censorship.

Without being uncomfortable you cannot grow as a person.  You cannot truly sympathize with others and you cannot help them. Censorship takes that away from people because when it does happen, there isn't a huge support group.

/just ignore me.  I'm going to stop posting now.
 
2014-08-18 9:03:49 PM  
4 votes:

James!: gimmegimme: James!: heili skrimsli: If you argue against a rule that treats women differently because it presumes they can't take care of themselves, then I'd say that it demonstrates that you respect women as equal human beings who need no special protection.

The argument isn't that women can't take care of themselves, but that we don't want to host that shiat. There are plenty of places on the internet to fight the gender war.  Fark would rather not.

We want people to come here and discuss the links and make jokes, not farking armor up and defend themselves.

Unless people are selecting from a dropdown of acceptable jokes and statements, there's really no way to prevent some people from getting their feelings hurt.

You also seem to be saying that plans include making sure that no articles related to the "gender war" will be greenlit.  The new rules seem to preclude discussion and joking about the issue.

What are you losing here? Rape jokes? "Make me a sammich"?

Those are the cornerstones of your comedy?


A Fark where we cannot quote a Mel Brooks film is a Fark missing its soul.
 
2014-08-18 8:30:43 PM  
4 votes:

Genevieve Marie: heili skrimsli: Then you come in, trying to save me from something that isn't a problem in the first place, and you think I should be thankful that you're making the world easier for me?

You are destroying the world that I was happy in. What in the world would make me thank you for that?

I'm not trying to save YOU from anything. None of this is actually about you.

(And none of it is actually about me much either, truth be told)

This is about doing the right thing, and the right thing is not making rape jokes because rape jokes are objectively shiatty and awful and hurtful.

It was a decision that was supported by multiple people, made by a large group of people, and one that we hope make the site better for the majority.

If you object to that, my apologies and best of luck finding somewhere more suited to your tastes.


Why don't you go some where that it is OK to call men dicks?
 
2014-08-18 8:18:16 PM  
4 votes:

Old_Chief_Scott: I think you left out a percentage of people who are pointing out the hypocritical stance of the original statement when the site still sells misogynistic items in the Fark Store and runs a separate tab dedicated to pictures of naked women. I guess it's not misogynistic when they do it, right?


I love how this has been addressed by absolutely no one on the mod/admin/owner side of things.
 
2014-08-18 8:15:29 PM  
4 votes:

Vector R: One subscription to your newsletter, please.


You're going to need it. GM has just made it clear that anyone who disagrees with her desire to 'make them equal' should leave.

ox45tallboy: And if I have a problem with what someone said, I will tell them that I have a problem with it, not that someone else might.


That is exactly why I find the new rule pathetic.

jso2897: But, hey I don't expect everybody to agree with me, and maybe some people will decide they don't like it here, and go away. And that's okay, too.


You do expect the people who don't agree with you to leave, though.

Genevieve Marie: It was a decision that was supported by multiple people, made by a large group of people, and one that we hope make the site better for the majority.


The majority of whom, exactly? Certainly not the people telling you they don't need your help protecting them, as has been made clear in this thread. Or are you referring to the people at Jezebel who don't want to pay for links here?

Theaetetus: Perhaps you were not the primary consideration when they came up with this change.


Feminists have made it damn clear to me that they would rather I go hide somewhere because my existence as someone who disagrees with their attempts to sanitize the world is antithetical to their goals.
 
2014-08-18 8:10:16 PM  
4 votes:

James!: This thread is 85% people happy with the new rules, 10% TFDers going off on tangents and 5% folks who are very upset they can't be shiatty about women all the time.

I'd say it's a success.


Hey look another biased mod. You're the guy who said pointing out Jezebel's bias was "being a shiatbag to women." Between you and GM I have a hard time seeing this being enforced justly.
 
2014-08-18 7:28:57 PM  
4 votes:
So, basically FARK is becoming Jezebel.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 7:01:53 PM  
4 votes:
Me thinks someone got a girlfriend.  And this girlfriend wears the pants.
 
2014-08-18 6:26:11 PM  
4 votes:
s2.quickmeme.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 6:04:44 PM  
4 votes:
files.abovetopsecret.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 6:04:34 PM  
4 votes:

leftyblonde: What in the Wide World of Sports is a-going on here?


mostly people so upset that "making fun of rape victims" is explicitly disallowed that they are literally stalking a female moderator to try to prove that misogyny isn't a thing
 
2014-08-18 6:02:16 PM  
4 votes:
Cheap green, Drew.
 
2014-08-18 5:48:35 PM  
4 votes:
Genevieve Marie:If you are legitimately concerned that I hate men and that this compromises my ability to moderate fairly, feel free to send Drew an email with that concern.

I am legitimately concerned, but we both know Drew isn't going to do anything about it. You're a mod and I'm just a liter.
 
2014-08-18 5:38:16 PM  
4 votes:

gimmegimme: Glendale: Shadow Blasko: Genevieve Marie: That's just separate than believing misandry is a thing. I'm more than happy to debate the misandry thing next time it comes up in a less official/more appropriate thread.

How is Misogyny being a punishable offense, an offense being meted out by a moderator who doesn't believe that misandry exists, inappropriate in any way?

Seriously. This is probably the absolute best place to have this decision.

This. Someone from Fark who is a higher up than GM needs to address this if they're even reading the details. Someone made her a mod, gave her power, and this is how she feels about men. How can anyone seriously think she's going to apply this new rule in an objective manner?

I heard that David Duke was moderator for many of the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman threads.


Oh I'd be willing to bet that she's part of the reason this new rule exists. It's a pretty typical SJW tactic. They get themselves made moderators and then eventually institute new rules that ban the particular things they personally dislike.

GM has been well known for her anti-male opinions, and for calling anyone who disagrees with her brand of radical feminism a misogynist. I can't even imagine why anyone would think there was ever an expectation that she'd enforce this rule fairly, when it's infinitely more likely that she came up with it and pushed for it to be biased in the first place.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-08-18 5:30:59 PM  
4 votes:
Genevieve Marie: You can see your own deleted comment, with the notification from the mod about why it was deleted.

Only the timestamp of a deleted comment is visible to the original poster, not the content.

So I would see

ZAZ (deleted: potatoes are not meant to be used like that) 2014-01-01 00:00:00

but not the comment about potatoes that got me in trouble.
 
2014-08-18 5:30:49 PM  
4 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Glendale: Shadow Blasko: Genevieve Marie: That's just separate than believing misandry is a thing. I'm more than happy to debate the misandry thing next time it comes up in a less official/more appropriate thread.

How is Misogyny being a punishable offense, an offense being meted out by a moderator who doesn't believe that misandry exists, inappropriate in any way?

Seriously. This is probably the absolute best place to have this decision.

This. Someone from Fark who is a higher up than GM needs to address this if they're even reading the details. Someone made her a mod, gave her power, and this is how she feels about men. How can anyone seriously think she's going to apply this new rule in an objective manner?

If you are legitimately concerned that I hate men and that this compromises my ability to moderate fairly, feel free to send Drew an email with that concern.


Irony, thy name is misandry.
 
2014-08-18 5:24:20 PM  
4 votes:

Shadow Blasko: Genevieve Marie: That's just separate than believing misandry is a thing. I'm more than happy to debate the misandry thing next time it comes up in a less official/more appropriate thread.

How is Misogyny being a punishable offense, an offense being meted out by a moderator who doesn't believe that misandry exists, inappropriate in any way?

Seriously. This is probably the absolute best place to have this decision.


How's this, for a more detailed explanation of what I actually believe.

Misandry is much like "Racism against white people".

It can exist as an individual prejudice, but it has no systemic power behind it. It's not something we've been struggling with for a few hundred years. It's not baked into our system of governing and into our culture.

Equating individual prejudice with systemic oppression is a distraction, more often than not. (There are of course, places that men need help on, most notably recognition of men as devoted parents, and recognition that men should be able to express feelings) But treating "misogyny" and "misandry" as something that happen at nearly  the same scale for the same reasons is just... not real.

That being said... most of this would be better debated in a relevant thread, not a thread about a fairly minor rules change that basically says "Don't imply women as a class are worthless and don't joke about raping people."
 
2014-08-18 5:23:37 PM  
4 votes:

Genevieve Marie: I actually stated multiple times up thread that rape jokes about men victims are not allowed, and this includes prison rape. The "No rape jokes" policy is very much meant to include men victims as well.

That's just separate than believing misandry is a thing. I'm more than happy to debate the misandry thing next time it comes up in a less official/more appropriate thread.


No, it's appropriate here since it appears that you're acting in a Fark-official capacity making those statements.
 
2014-08-18 5:21:02 PM  
4 votes:

Shadow Blasko: Genevieve Marie: That's just separate than believing misandry is a thing. I'm more than happy to debate the misandry thing next time it comes up in a less official/more appropriate thread.

How is Misogyny being a punishable offense, an offense being meted out by a moderator who doesn't believe that misandry exists, inappropriate in any way?

Seriously. This is probably the absolute best place to have this decision.


Translation: They asked me to stop talking about it because my extreme point of view is causing too much negative attention in a very visible thread.
 
2014-08-18 5:18:22 PM  
4 votes:
This reads as if Moderators must divine the author's intent from words posted on an often-silly, disingenuous, irreverent, trolling Website.  As you admit, you're gonna get it wrong because your benchmark (standard) is ill-defined, incomplete and subjective.

I wonder if this was an attack of male guilt, a genuine outrage or sponsors getting nervous?

Of course, this is your site, and you can do what you believe is in your best interest, but know that few people take ANY TOPIC seriously here, which is why we visit.  As you increase the number of off-limits topics, irrespective of how correct and justified you are, visit count will diminish, and I suspect you know that.
 
2014-08-18 5:16:22 PM  
4 votes:

KatjaMouse: gimmegimme: Further, you don't seem to want equal "protection" for men on Fark. Why is that?

I think Genevieve Marie outlined it pretty succinctly:

Misandry will be a thing when:
1) There have never been any men who are presidents of the United States
2) Almost all major religious figures world wide are women
3) Women make more money than men just because of our gender
4) Insert, etc, ad nauseam.

As for equal protection I'm definitely for calling farkers out or deleting comments that are hostile towards men that aren't "manly" or are "sissies". However, on Fark, male commentators don't really need much in the way of protection or intervention on their behalf.


Women don't "need" it either, it is an anonymous website. The fact that someone thinks they "need" it actually belittles women.
 
2014-08-18 4:59:23 PM  
4 votes:

Genevieve Marie: But Misandry? Is still not a thing.


So it's a word, in the dictionary, with a definition, but it's not real because you say it isn't? It's been used for hundreds of years. Are you seriously that close-minded and myopic?

It's amazing that you are that narrow minded and allowed to make decisions here.
 
2014-08-18 4:51:09 PM  
4 votes:

Genevieve Marie: falcon176: it's hard to argue against the "lol misandry is fake" people when the mods delete every post addressing it, but yes you're right misandry doesn't exist because if you prove it does you just get censored, and censorship = winning

Misandry will be a thing when:

1) There have never been any men who are presidents of the United States
2) Almost all major religious figures world wide are women
3) Women make more money than men just because of our gender
4) Insert, etc, ad nauseam.


Probably there is a more sensitive way to put the "Don't be a dick thing"? I'm ok with "Don't be an asshole."

But Misandry? Is still not a thing.

Quit trying to make fetch happen. It's never going to happen.


misandry is a thing, and just because you mash delete on all the posts proving it is a thing doesn't mean it isn't. maybe if you had facts on your side you wouldn't need to abuse your power.
 
2014-08-18 4:28:44 PM  
4 votes:

TotesCrayCray: Ok, cool. Because some people are raging asshole.

But, on that same topic, what about misandry? As much as some threads being out the people who are extremely demeaning to women other threads being out people who are extremely demeaning to men. Certain threads have people who treat/call out/accuse all men of being rapists or rapists in waiting. As much as it's not fair or civil to treat all women as sluts, etc isn't just as demeaning to accuse and treat all men as abusers, attackers, and rapists/sexual assaulters. And people get called a "MRA" if they dare mention legitimate issues that effect men. I'm not saying that societal issues effecting men and women are equal, but there are ones that effect each gender individually for the most part.


Well, for one thing, there's a crazy imbalance between the man:woman ratio on this site. So for a couple of broads dumping on guys it hardly makes a blip anywhere if it were to even happen. Even in threads discussing feminist topics, as per a couple of threads about the #YesAllWomen trend it quickly devolved into "wimmins be crazy" or "you all are just making it up". I've been told a number of times that situations I found myself in (my female gaming and comic book club getting harassed by some douchebags at the comic book store in this post Marvel blockbuster age) likely didn't happen just because these male respondents didn't do it or "know" guys who did that. Also consider that as a dude you weren't raised with the same issues to keep in mind like we were. Like how we're the "gatekeepers" lest we be called sluts. We shoot a guy down and we're a "b*tch". Like how we need to check our surroundings in multiple different settings in multiple different ways lest we get attacked either by a stranger or friend or acquaintance. Perspective is a helluva lens, my friend.

Generally the ladies I've encountered here on Fark and TotalFark aren't completely overly sensitive delicate little peaches. It's just nice to know that blatant hostility, that we've all faced on more than one occasion on this site, can now get checked.

Also, you might want to police your use of the word "legitimate" when addressing issues concerning the sexes. Things can get super squicky there.

/Yay for safer internet communities
//This happened before my time on Fark but I have been lead to believe that some gross comments about Kari Byron caused her to flee this site
///Won't someone please think about the nerdy celebrity girls who can be considered sexy because of their big juicy brains/pursuits?
////yeah... says the chick who'd put her marriage in jeopardy for a night with either Kate Winslet or Christina Hendricks
 
2014-08-18 4:14:10 PM  
4 votes:
This action is being spurred on by one of the following:

1) Potential lawsuit against Fark.com
2) Potential or current sponsors getting cold feet and backing out
3) Potential or current pool of Fark users leaving the site

Again, all about the green.
 
2014-08-18 4:10:35 PM  
4 votes:
First, they came for the misogynists, and I said nothing...
 
2014-08-18 4:02:19 PM  
4 votes:
If anyone could help, I'd really like to see examples of the rampant misandry that seems to exist in Fark that isn't just completely built up in the minds of people who don't have a grasp on the difference between reality and their lack of emotional control.
 
2014-08-18 3:45:20 PM  
4 votes:
BS - Who is the new advertiser?
 
2014-08-18 3:30:28 PM  
4 votes:

Prevailing Wind: I fear that this well meaning attempt to improve the tenor of discussion in our forums shall result in unintended rebellion contrary to the aims of the original prohibition.


A few will get their knickers in a twist and push the lines for a while, they'll get timeouts and Fark will spin on.

This too shall pass. And this place will be a little better off without so much casual misogyny.
 
2014-08-18 3:25:52 PM  
4 votes:

Shame Us: We have a lot more MRA's than I had previously suspected.



Not enjoying every word you write being analyzed for thought-crimes using the criteria of the perpetually offended does not make one an MRA.
 
2014-08-18 3:19:35 PM  
4 votes:
Thank you Drew. For a time there, I had considered leaving Fark because I felt like the comments in certain threads were really out of line. Some Farkers enjoy attacking Farkettes simply because they are women. Thank you for not pushing me into the arms of Jezebel. I didn't want that to happen.
 
2014-08-18 3:18:34 PM  
4 votes:
As a member of the Fark Christian community, I think religious bashing is just as important of an issue.
 
2014-08-18 3:14:12 PM  
4 votes:
Fark is becoming Huffpost.
 
2014-08-18 3:06:00 PM  
4 votes:

Ennuipoet: vbob: As long as we are all of one liberal mindset, then I guess it's okay.

Treating people with a little Human decency is a Liberal mindset now?

Oh, wait, yeah...



Censoring speech (which Drew is absolutely free to do), and being overly cautious (which Drew is absolutely free to do), and being overly sensitive to ANYTHING that might offend ANYONE (which Drew is absolutely free to do)...is a pretty liberal mindset, yeah.

\Agree with just about every new rule
\\blocking the "you gonna get raped" image on a story about a pedophile being sent to prison...nope, ya lost me, not gonna agree that that is out of line.  Never.
 
2014-08-18 3:05:29 PM  
4 votes:

TotesCrayCray: But, on that same topic, what about misandry


You be sure and let us know when that becomes a cultural problem instead of just a way of trying to defend your vague disquiet that you just might have it pretty good.
 
2014-08-18 3:03:15 PM  
4 votes:

worlddan: It's no skin off my nose but I find it inconsistent that directly below this thread is a thread advertising Total Fark with the headline:

We offend more people before 9AM than most people do in a day.

One hand you are outright advertising as a positive that you run a website that people can and will find offensive and then turn around and start moderating the website because some people find it offensive. As I said, it's no skin off my nose but it does appear to be sending mixed messages.



i1123.photobucket.comView Full Size

 
2014-08-18 3:02:32 PM  
4 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: This would be my last post HERE on the subject.


Good because that was extra dumb
 
2014-08-18 3:01:41 PM  
4 votes:

CatherineM: I like all the dudes who are like, BUT.. BUT WHAT ABOUT MISANDRY


It is sort of amusing that you could use this thread to generate a list of people you won't be seeing much longer...
 
2014-08-18 2:59:19 PM  
4 votes:

OregonVet: But if she actually is young, dumb, and full of cum, is it okay to reiterate that fact?


I'm going to go ahead and guess that general attitude falls under misogynistic based on the long-standing ruling of "it's awesome when men have sex, but if a woman does she's a slut and we have to embarrass her for it".
 
2014-08-18 2:55:05 PM  
4 votes:
Maybe if a woman or women could make a successful site like fark they wouldn't need a man to set rules so their feelings don't get hurt. Isn't making special rules to protect the ladies misogyny ? It certainly implies they are not capable of calling dealing with or calling it out when they see it. No you just think those ladies needs special protecting as they are incapable of doing it themselves.
 
2014-08-18 2:52:47 PM  
4 votes:
As long as it keeps the fedora-wearing MRA neckbeards from shiatting all over everything, I'm all for it.

} I know it's a trilby
}} I still don't give a f*ck
 
2014-08-18 2:52:16 PM  
4 votes:
A larger grey area to moderate will end up with more people suggesting favoritism.  The "I know it when I see it" type of judgement is pretty difficult.
 
2014-08-18 2:52:07 PM  
4 votes:

Hebalo: RexTalionis: Good call on the misogyny moderation.

However, if you guys can actually do something about some of the seriously rampant racists around on Fark, that'd be great, though.

Report it. Seriously. Every time it happens.


This
 
2014-08-18 2:49:15 PM  
4 votes:
Oh the "libertarian" neckneards aren't going to be happy with this. You know the type... the ones who think men are "under attack" in America and blah blah blah...
 
2014-08-18 2:47:51 PM  
4 votes:
I find this misandrist.
 
2014-08-18 2:47:00 PM  
4 votes:
Genevieve Marie:

Not at all. Rape jokes are no longer allowed, it doesn't matter who the victim is.

So no Pedobear jokes, since that's statutory rape? How about the Soon memes, Handbanana, or 40lbs of rape?
 
2014-08-18 2:38:21 PM  
4 votes:
You said ra...er.. nevermind.

As long as it's still OK to make fun of the mentally handicapped and tea partiers, I'll get over it.
 
2014-08-19 7:54:30 PM  
3 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: heili skrimsli: What rights, exactly, should I have due to owning a vagina that don't apply to all humans?

I reject the premise that there are such things as 'women's rights' entirely. There are human rights, and every human should have them. So then I look for a right that men in the industrialized, developed world supposedly have that women are, by law, denied.

I can't name a single one.

Can you?

See previous comment. Way too late for this.


Well then.

I'm female. There are no rights whatsoever in the United States that men legally possess and women do not. I am afforded every single protection under the law that men are and then some. I do not have to register for selective service and cannot be conscripted into service. Thanks to the VAWA, there exist dozens of programs to help me if I am ever the victim of domestic violence, but if I were a male victim, I would be referred to a hotline for offenders.

I know that if I call the police for domestic violence, thanks to the Duluth Model even if I am the sole aggressor it's almost certain that he'll be the one going to jail.

If someone at a bar witnesses another person putting something in my drink, odds are it'll be pointed out to me, but if I were a man it would be a source of humor. I also know that people are likely to intervene if I'm being assaulted by a man in public, but that is only because I'm a woman.

There doesn't exist a jurisdiction in the entire United States where I am legally considered unable to be raped purely because being forced to penetrate is not a crime. That's a privilege afforded only to men.

If I were to commit a criminal act, up to and including murder, I can be assured that I am not only less likely to ever be convicted and sentenced to prison, but even if I am, I'll receive a significantly shorter sentence than a man will for the same crime.

I know that if I call the police for domestic violence, thanks to the Duluth Model and the requirement that the police consider factors that will almost invariably make the man the 'predominant aggressor' even if I am the sole aggressor it's almost certain that he'll be the one going to jail.

You said that you defer to a woman's opinion in these matters. Well my opinion is that the deck is far from stacked against me. If anything it's been stacked so farking far in my favor that the institutionalized, enshrined in law, sexism that still exists in the United States is overwhelmingly slanted towards men.
 
2014-08-19 4:22:39 PM  
3 votes:
newsninja2012.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-19 10:49:07 AM  
3 votes:
I suppose Drew gets to run Fark the way he wants, but GM wouldn't have gotten her way if she wasn't pretty.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2014-08-19 10:16:01 AM  
3 votes:

ZAZ: Once again (repeating since the thread has calmed down and this will be visible more than a few seconds):
People are reacting to a ban on "misogyny" but the scope is more limited than "anything a man-hating feminist would be annoyed by."
Also, since people are saying she wrecked the place, Genevieve Marie's arrival on Fark more or less coincided with a purge of (perceived) troublemakers. I took the purge as a policy decision by Drew to make the place more civil and advertiser-friendly, not some new girl with a stick up her... you know.


I dunno.  Having thought about it a bit more, I think the new/expanded guidelines represent more than just a policy decision in the name of civility.  It's a change in the site's basic focus.  Fark has always been sort of split between a humor site and a socializing/discussion site.  (Or at least, it has for as long as I've been poking around it.)  The trouble is that those two aspects have fundamentally incompatible needs.

Prior to this, the humor took first priority; and humor is ultimately based in coping with pain, fear, and the transgression of taboo.  While behavior directed towards a specific individual might get you in trouble, it took a hell of a lot to reach a point where your topic itself would be out of bounds.  If feelings got stepped on or if your own groups or pet causes were ridiculed, then too bad.  Omelettes and eggs, welcome to Fark, the joke world is rough so wear a cup.  In practice the needs of humor outweighed the needs of community.

These rules cross a threshold.  It's not just a step up in enforcement, it's a qualitative shift; now, there's a blanket rule placing the comfort of readers and the needs of community- emotional safety, security, tolerance- above the needs of humor.  These eggs ye shall not break, your omelette be damned.  And, having established the shift in focus, more eggs will be gradually added to the basket.  (A slippery slope may be a fallacy when it's used in a construct of logic, but as a description of the usual course of human behavior it's pretty accurate.)  They'll have to be, if for no other reason than in the name of consistency and equal treatment.

I'm not personally all that bothered by it; but then, I've always mostly participated in the discussion aspect of Fark anyway.  But at the same time, I can see why people more invested in the humor are cringing at this, because they're here for the omelettes.  It's a big deal for the site, and it's going to become a bigger one as more time passes.  This change isn't just additive or subtractive, it's ecological.

I guess I'm just in the odd position of being simultaneously kinda supportive, and kinda damn leery of it.
 
2014-08-19 8:30:45 AM  
3 votes:
When I was 18 years old, I was forced, under penalty of imprisonment to sign a piece of paper agreeing to risk my life in whatever war my government decided to start. I was forced to do this simply because I was born with a penis.

I don't see many feminists clamoring for women to be subject to mandatory selective service registration.
equal rights, my ass.
 
2014-08-19 3:54:25 AM  
3 votes:

redsquid: Drew has made a living off of rape jokes, toilet humor and bro culture for years. The thing he is trying to demonize has made him a rich man. Now that there's been a change of heart that filthy lucre must weigh heavy on his heart. The years of growing rich from the victimization of women, minorities and gays must eat him up.
OK Drew- tell ya what I'm going to do- Send me a check. It doesn't need to be for the full amount of the profits you've made from the suffering of others- just a sizable, symbolic, six-figure amount. and I'll establish the Redsquid/Drew Curtis Fund for Not Laughing at Rape Jokes. I will use these funds to establish a safe haven for women, minorities and any other of your victims, where for at least 2 hours a day I will guarantee that no inappropriate jokes are told. Hopefully as the Fund snowballs we'll get enough money to expand our program to 4 hours a day, but I can't do it without you. The choice is yours- sit back and do nothing, swaddled in your rapey porn money while countless innocents face the horror of reading words they don't like on sites they voluntarily visit, or join me in my struggle to give back to a community that you have exploited so heartlessly.


::APPLAUSE::
 
2014-08-19 2:18:13 AM  
3 votes:
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2014-08-19 12:16:17 AM  
3 votes:

Drew: If the Internet was a dude person, we'd all agree that dude person has a serious problem with women other people.


I fixed that for you. I think it's wonderful that you're going to ensure that the following no longer takes place:

- Rape jokes
- Calling women people as a group "whores" or "sluts" or similar demeaning terminology
- Jokes suggesting that a woman person who suffered a crime was somehow asking for it


I will presume it was a mistake that you suggested you would ONLY apply the aforementioned guidelines to posts that were negative towards women. Surely you would take the same measures against a post that was negative towards any group, not just women. Obviously. I mean, to ONLY apply it to women would be worthy of this:

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 11:59:26 PM  
3 votes:
This is retarded.
 
2014-08-18 11:04:36 PM  
3 votes:
Drew has made a living off of rape jokes, toilet humor and bro culture for years. The thing he is trying to demonize has made him a rich man. Now that there's been a change of heart that filthy lucre must weigh heavy on his heart. The years of growing rich from the victimization of women, minorities and gays must eat him up.
OK Drew- tell ya what I'm going to do- Send me a check. It doesn't need to be for the full amount of the profits you've made from the suffering of others- just a sizable, symbolic, six-figure amount. and I'll establish the Redsquid/Drew Curtis Fund for Not Laughing at Rape Jokes. I will use these funds to establish a safe haven for women, minorities and any other of your victims, where for at least 2 hours a day I will guarantee that no inappropriate jokes are told. Hopefully as the Fund snowballs we'll get enough money to expand our program to 4 hours a day, but I can't do it without you. The choice is yours- sit back and do nothing, swaddled in your rapey porn money while countless innocents face the horror of reading words they don't like on sites they voluntarily visit, or join me in my struggle to give back to a community that you have exploited so heartlessly.
 
2014-08-18 10:40:42 PM  
3 votes:
Well, this thread has certainly been a wonderful trove of reasons to support this move by Drew and the Fark Mods. Goddamn, some of you are so f*cking hysterical and sensitive when someone has the audacity to say you shouldn't say sexist things, it's ironic considering gender stereotypes.
 
2014-08-18 10:06:00 PM  
3 votes:

Theaetetus: "I need a woman who can speak her mind, but not about the things I don't want her to."


Theaetetus: ... Then we had a big party, and everything was great, and people had discussions in which they could disagree without resorting to personal attacks.



somebody's gettin personal
 
2014-08-18 9:52:05 PM  
3 votes:

James!: grumpfuff: ZAZ: When the ignore list was new the mods looked at who was most ignored and considered whether that person needed more moderator attention. If they still do that, consider ignoring somebody as nomination for bannination.

Question to all mods(like James! or Genevieve Marie or even Drew)!!

Is this in fact still true? If it is, I would be much more motivated to use ignore, and I think that it should be more emphasized that it is in fact a policy.

It is.


Should be the other way around. The people who use ignore the most should be cordially invited to check out a safe space more to their taste.
 
gja
2014-08-18 9:50:11 PM  
3 votes:

Theaetetus: gja: My concern is the creeping-scope effect this may take on as we go along.

First they came for the misogynists, but I said nothing, because I am not a misogynist.
Then they came for the racists, but I said nothing, because I am not a racist.
Then they came for the homophobes, but I said nothing, because I am not homophobic.
Then they came for those who attack people for following a different religion, but I said nothing, because I don't care what religion someone follows.
... Then we had a big party, and everything was great, and people had discussions in which they could disagree without resorting to personal attacks.


Nice BS, but as usual BS from you.
How about the attacks on basically any form or degree of religion by those who feel that is some sort of mass delusion?

Try to keep up buddy. Try.
 
2014-08-18 9:15:51 PM  
3 votes:
if there's one takeaway from this thread, it's that the mods are literally retarded on this site
 
2014-08-18 9:02:29 PM  
3 votes:

James!: heili skrimsli: If you argue against a rule that treats women differently because it presumes they can't take care of themselves, then I'd say that it demonstrates that you respect women as equal human beings who need no special protection.

The argument isn't that women can't take care of themselves, but that we don't want to host that shiat. There are plenty of places on the internet to fight the gender war.  Fark would rather not.

We want people to come here and discuss the links and make jokes, not farking armor up and defend themselves


Fark wants us to make jokes, but only jokes the Mods find acceptable. Also, the rampant racism and obvious trolls are still okay.
 
2014-08-18 8:29:15 PM  
3 votes:
This is actually the first time someone could say "Fark was cooler back when . . ." and there would be a tangible difference between now and "back when"
 
2014-08-18 8:25:19 PM  
3 votes:

soosh: Old_Chief_Scott: I think you left out a percentage of people who are pointing out the hypocritical stance of the original statement when the site still sells misogynistic items in the Fark Store and runs a separate tab dedicated to pictures of naked women. I guess it's not misogynistic when they do it, right?

I love how this has been addressed by absolutely no one on the mod/admin/owner side of things.


The same thing happened with PZ Myers, Rebecca Watson...everything after Elevatorgate.

Before Elevatorgate, PZ Myers loved hentai and his commenters would happily make rape jokes.  Tell people to insert sharp things in unpleasant places.  Watson made a semi-nude Skepchicks calendar to show that smart women can be hot, too.  PZ brought a stranger onstage at a conference and repeatedly insisted the two of them would have sex in his hotel room.

Then everything changed.  At no point will any in that shrinking group address any hypocrisy or any of their own sexism.  (And google "Ogvorbis...pretty harrowing stuff.)  They lob around accusations of rape as though those accusations have no meaning and redefine terms ("stalking = reading public statements") and expect the real world to fit their very broken understanding of reality.

I guess the primary point is that you simply can't have open and interesting and intellectual discussions when commenters are more focused on making sure no one makes an off-color joke than saying something interesting.  The focus of such a community changes...instead of being about what it was before, it becomes ALL ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE.  (And a very narrow definition of such.)
 
2014-08-18 8:04:07 PM  
3 votes:
This thread is 85% people happy with the new rules, 10% TFDers going off on tangents and 5% folks who are very upset they can't be shiatty about women all the time.

I'd say it's a success.
 
2014-08-18 8:03:18 PM  
3 votes:

paygun: heili skrimsli: I will, however, phase myself out of the site if I am continually treated like some kind of shrinking violet who needs to be protected from the big scary world.

You shouldn't assume this is being done for you, or for the sake of any women here, for any reason other than monetization.  And I don't mean to say that Drew is some of villain either, the purpose of a business (and that's what fark is) is to make money.


There I go, taking people at their word again.

netweavr: Part of expecting people to act equal is giving them the tools to act equal. You don't expect a new hire to perform his/her duties instantly, why would you expect a group of people to step into an "equal" role with no experience exercising that role? Just because everyone has suddenly decided we're all equal doesn't mean it's true.

... wait what?


....That started off well in my head.


Except that I do not need to be made equal as if I was not already.

Do you not see how it is insulting to tell women that we need to be 'made equal' to men? That we must have the playing field leveled for us because being female is a handicap and a disadvantage?

I was equal. Yesterday. This new rule has thrown that out the window. Now there is an official policy that says I'm not equal, I'm weaker, lesser, and that I need to be protected. And for the first time ever on Fark, with its history of yoga pants, rape jokes, boobies and smack talk it's this rule today - it's this very thread - I am actually insulted.
 
2014-08-18 7:59:43 PM  
3 votes:
I'm going to make a Nostradamus-style prediction that this becomes the beginning of the end for Fark in a recognizable form.

Drew, you made something great, something that distilled the incredible untamed country nature of the Net back when it was great, before the iPhone and Facebook idiot brigade descended on it.  And then you turned control of it over to soulless corporate bastards, and now social justice warriors.

There's still a chance to fix this.  You don't have to wear the shackles of advertising and political correctness.  Go back to a life before you had to shill for TF subscriptions with inline ads on the main page.

Tell them no.  Tell them to suck squirrel balls.  Give the people back their Fark.
 
2014-08-18 7:57:04 PM  
3 votes:

soosh: so you're going to delete comments referencing canola, meanwhile

1.  this is a site named fark
2. you have a filter that changes words to "boobies"
3. the mascot is a squirrel with big hanging balls
4. you have a linked porn site you own called Foobies
5. you have a store where you sell "Jane, you ignorant slut" t-shirts


and this is all in the name of stamping out misogyny?

did I miss anything?


What, you expect consistency? You expect this site to follow its own rules?
 
2014-08-18 7:36:27 PM  
3 votes:

Genevieve Marie: And as a woman, let me say where I come from on this...

We don't have to enter an environment where people treat us in a more hostile way than they do others and take it just because that makes us strong. Sometimes, you go "You know what, this is bullshiat" and you do your best to make sure that the playing field gets leveled.

That's not coddling. That's saying "Enough with the bullshiat. We should all start from the same place."


This is what I heard. As a woman "blah" "blah" BLAH" "BLAH". If we can't Blah,, BLAH,,, let's remove what men say and level the playing field. Sometimes you have to silence the opposition in order to Blah Blah!!! It's not coddli,,, BLAH BLAHHH!!!! By the way that's totally equal.
 
2014-08-18 7:32:33 PM  
3 votes:

Genevieve Marie: And as a woman, let me say where I come from on this...

We don't have to enter an environment where people treat us in a more hostile way than they do others and take it just because that makes us strong. Sometimes, you go "You know what, this is bullshiat" and you do your best to make sure that the playing field gets leveled.

That's not coddling. That's saying "Enough with the bullshiat. We should all start from the same place."


Never heard of or notice you before today, but now I understand why people are piling on.  It would be "leveling the playing field" (but still complete fail) if it was pointed at both sides.  As it is, it's just sexist coddling.
 
2014-08-18 7:26:35 PM  
3 votes:

Genevieve Marie: That's not coddling. That's saying "Enough with the bullshiat. We should all start from the same place."


Oh, Thank you, white person, under the age of 50, for setting things right.

Seriously, who taught you this crud?
 
KIA
2014-08-18 7:21:42 PM  
3 votes:

Genevieve Marie: "Enough with the bullshiat. We should all start from the same place."


Umm... the internet is a place where you could be as anonymous as you please.  If that isn't starting from the same place, what is?
 
2014-08-18 7:18:29 PM  
3 votes:

cuzsis: As a female, I find this move highly offensive. (Not to mention stupid beyond all reason).

Here, let me explain it so

[images.clipartof.com image 136x150]

can understand.

At fark, we have a fairly stand up group of people, they tend to call folks out when they're being a$$holes. At the same time, every single user has a "block" feature that we can access when someone really goes overboard, if the mods don't ban them first.

And while that is enough for male farkers, apparently us female farkers need mods patrolling the board in case someone uses a bad word or is mean to us. We can't be expected to deal with trolls, a$$holes, or general bullshiat on our own like the guys, because we are delicate little flowers that need protecting.

Do you understand what you are telling us? 

YOU ARE TELLING US WE NEED MODS TO PROTECT US BECAUSE WE CAN'T TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES!
 

[i268.photobucket.com image 313x313]


You know what? Fark you. Fark you and your backa$$ward misogyny. I'm not in farking kindergarten and I don't need a mod hovering over me when I go into threads. I can take care of myself.


[faithljustice.files.wordpress.com image 595x600]


How? Because...

 
[brucemctague.com image 500x347]
You know what that is? Epic loads of gobsmacking confidence. That is how you do not give a shiat about what trolls/fools/idiots/morons and the rest think if their thinking is stupid. Believe it or not you can have both confidence and admit you're wrong if you're in an honest debate. You know, the kind with actual facts and science in it.

Too much stupid from one poster?

[i268.photobucket.com image 320x240]

Boom. Done. 


If our society wants strong and equal women, it's going to have to start treating and teaching them that way.

And that means expecting them to kick a$$ when necessary.

[img.fark.net image 275x183]

/there are few things more awesome than knowing you can hold your own anywhere you go.


And as a woman, let me say where I come from on this...

We don't have to enter an environment where people treat us in a more hostile way than they do others and take it just because that makes us strong. Sometimes, you go "You know what, this is bullshiat" and you do your best to make sure that the playing field gets leveled.

That's not coddling. That's saying "Enough with the bullshiat. We should all start from the same place."
 
2014-08-18 7:18:14 PM  
3 votes:

feckingmorons: Genevieve Marie: Misandry is much like "Racism against white people".It can exist as an individual prejudice, but it has no systemic power behind it. It's not something we've been struggling with for a few hundred years. It's not baked into our system of governing and into our culture.

That frankly is the most stupid thing I've ever read on Fark.

If you're not white you can't be racist, and even if non-white people can be racist it is not a lot of people so deal with it.

You've got one warped version of reality.


So... "systemic racism against white people" is a real thing, and has been for centuries? Huh. I did not know that. I guess that makes me "the most stupid thing" on Fark, too.

Or perhaps your interpretation of the comment is that of someone looking for an excuse to be offended, and your further comments down-thread do little to alter that perception?

Nah, that's crazy talk.
 
2014-08-18 7:12:16 PM  
3 votes:

we'refromthesamestory: I love how a bunch of people, who can't even see half the site, have ganged up on one mod and decided this was all her doing. Let's ignore the laundry list of threads that get submitted daily that are either making fun of rape, or making fun of the woman in a sexual harassment case. Let's not mention the TFD teainwreck we had this morning about the misogyny schtick. But no, keep dog piling and making this stuff up.

This is why I hate liters.


We hate you too.
 
2014-08-18 7:02:45 PM  
3 votes:
As a victim of rape, I'm not ok with this idea.  I'm not a victim, nor a survivor.  But, I don't speak for all.  I use humor to work with my stress.  Sometimes, very sick humor.  But, the winds, they are a changin'.

However, I don't think I've made a rape joke or a sammich joke on these threads.  So, I guess this new idea doesn't affect me much.
 
2014-08-18 6:47:21 PM  
3 votes:
This is quite a thread.

Drew, if you want it to stand as one of the greats, let it stay open long enough to compete with the "nerdy girls" thread.  The two would make nice bookends in the 1 and 2 positions.

....of top voted that is.
 
2014-08-18 6:26:33 PM  
3 votes:
Excellent. Rape is the most pressing issue of our day, and I'm glad this site is taking a firm stance against it.

Now, then, I assume small-dick jokes are okay, since guys can stand up for themselves?
 
2014-08-18 6:23:43 PM  
3 votes:
So, he's making an eleventh hour move to clean up that which is associated with him and is ignoring requests to address the actions of one of his appointees. And he want to run for office...

He'll go far in that world.

/part of it is snark
//part of it isn't
///wonder if i'll get modded for this
 
2014-08-18 6:22:03 PM  
3 votes:
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 6:21:39 PM  
3 votes:
I don't get what all this hysteria is about. 

/oops
 
2014-08-18 6:16:37 PM  
3 votes:

abmoraz: Ok, seriousness time for a moment:

I've posted a few attempted funnies in the thread so far, but it's time for a little reality check for everyone.  This change, on the surface, is about misogyny, but it's much deeper than that.  It's not about men vs women, or liberal vs conservatism, or free speech vs censorship.  It's not about money or whether Genevieve Marie is a man-hater.  It's about 1 thing and 1 thing only:


THIS IS DREW'S SITE AND HE CAN DO WHATEVER THE FARK HE WANTS WITH IT
This is not a democracy.  He may value the input of the consumers of the site, but in the long run, it's his decision and his alone.  "But abmoraz!  We pay his bills!  We drive the ad revenue and send our $5/mo for TotalFark!  We run it!"  Keep telling yourselves this.  Go ask yourself how much Wal*Mart gives a crap about your thoughts on it if/when you shop there.  You are the customer, not the administrator.  Deal with it.  Being powerless sucks, but it's the truth.  And, no matter how much money a place makes, it can disappear over night if the people that run it decide it's not worth the hassle anymore.  Don't believe me? Look at JustinTV.  2 weeks ago, they just shut down.  No warning, no nothing.  Just a video on the home page saying "so long, and thanks for all the fish."  Left over 900,000 regular users without a second thought.

I have never met Genevieve Marie, netweavr, Unfreakable, Drew, xandian, or any of the other owners/mods/admins and I'm not here to white-knight for them, but the way they've been treated by a small by a small percentage of people in this thread is fairly appalling.  Moderators are basically rule enforcement.  They are forum cops.  And I know it's cool to hate the Po-Po, but it's still no excuse to take it out on them when they are just trying to do their jobs.  They have guidelines and rules, but are left with a fair amount of judgement on their own.  That's life.  Lay-off them a bit and appreciate that they keep the real crazies at bay.  The rest of ...


masonicleader.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 5:54:40 PM  
3 votes:
Here, I'm gonna do a little sharing. I honestly would really appreciate it if some of you guys would put yourselves in my shoes for a moment.

Not too long ago, there was a Fark thread on a pre-op transgender person who'd decided to compete in a beauty pageant.  She was not the most attractive person in the world.  The entire thread was a cavalcade of "I'd never hit that!" "nopenopenope!" and other "funny" memes. Tag in the whole ugly debate of "is a trans woman a real woman y/n", and general ass-hattery (I wouldn't hit it if *HE* were a *SHE* anyway!).

Now, I'm trans.  Hell, I'm ugly too, I'll admit it!  That thread really stung.  I mean, I'm a Farker. You're a Farker.  We're all members of dis community.  Now, members of dis community are blatantly going after a person who quite well could have been me.

Put yourself in my shoes now.  I mean, really, seriously do it.  Adjust what happened as needed to make it fit.  Wouldn't you feel pretty crappy about it too?

Hence why I agree with the rule. If it cuts down on stuff like that happening, it's nothing but good for me.
 
2014-08-18 5:52:57 PM  
3 votes:

Genevieve Marie:

Misandry is much like "Racism against white people".

It can exist as an individual prejudice, but it has no systemic power behind it. It's not something we've been struggling with for a few hundred years. It's not baked into our system of governing and into our culture.


So, when we are talking about individual Fark posts, we are talking about the systemic power behind them, and that's why misogynist posts are worse than misandrist?

Equating individual prejudice with systemic oppression is a distraction, more often than not. (There are of course, places that men need help on, most notably recognition of men as devoted parents, and recognition that men should be able to express feelings) But treating "misogyny" and "misandry" as something that happen at nearly  the same scale for the same reasons is just... not real.

But we aren't talking about that.  We aren't comparing systemic behaviors (misogynistic moderation or membership policy) with individual acts and opinions.  We're comparing apples and apples, posts to posts.  I can't see how one is worse than the other.

This is the old canard of racism/sexism/whatever-ism is only valid when there's power behind it.... they have no power to oppress blah blah.  That line of argument won't work here (not that it ever works... I won't get into that).  Our words on this site have exactly the same power, no matter who is typing and who is reading.  To imply otherwise would mean:


Oh_Enough_Already: KatjaMouse: However, on Fark, male commentators don't really need much in the way of protection or intervention on their behalf.

Neither do women, and it's terribly misogynist of you to suggest otherwise.


And  Genevieve'sopinion vanishes in a puff of logic.
 
2014-08-18 5:49:34 PM  
3 votes:
A site supposedly based on boobs & beer w/ an extra large side of snark, now has an official statement on misogyny. I think someone should throw a wake.
 
2014-08-18 5:35:42 PM  
3 votes:
So, the "Hate Chicks" and their misandry will still be OK?
 
2014-08-18 5:31:24 PM  
3 votes:

Glendale: How can anyone seriously think she's going to apply this new rule in an objective manner?


You're assuming that it matters if she does.  If a whole shiatload of people leave the site and never come back and it hurts the bottom line, then it matters.  If not, then it doesn't.
 
2014-08-18 5:30:36 PM  
3 votes:

KatjaMouse: soosh: KatjaMouse: gimmegimme: Further, you don't seem to want equal "protection" for men on Fark. Why is that?

I think Genevieve Marie outlined it pretty succinctly:

Misandry will be a thing when:
1) There have never been any men who are presidents of the United States
2) Almost all major religious figures world wide are women
3) Women make more money than men just because of our gender
4) Insert, etc, ad nauseam.

As for equal protection I'm definitely for calling farkers out or deleting comments that are hostile towards men that aren't "manly" or are "sissies". However, on Fark, male commentators don't really need much in the way of protection or intervention on their behalf.

isn't that somehow sexually insulting to say that women need protection and men don't?

for the record, I don't think either need protection.

If fark were 50:50 between the sexes then I'd agree with you.


Protection from what though? In real life misogyny is a horrible thing and has real effects on peoples lives. On an internet message board what are you being protected from, being offended? Slacktavism at its finest! You mods aren't making any real difference but you get to feel like you almost did! Bravo!
 
2014-08-18 5:28:33 PM  
3 votes:
Lets continue to prevent transparency and further alienate the userbase behind that wall of derp that is known as moderation.
 
2014-08-18 5:25:56 PM  
3 votes:

Genevieve Marie: That being said... most of this would be better debated in a relevant thread, not a thread about a fairly minor rules change that basically says "Don't imply women as a class are worthless and don't joke about raping people."


Ok... ok.

But we need to have a talk sometime.. Because I have some experiences that I want explained to me how they are ~not~ misandry on a systematic level.
 
2014-08-18 5:20:21 PM  
3 votes:

Oh_Enough_Already: KatjaMouse: However, on Fark, male commentators don't really need much in the way of protection or intervention on their behalf.

Neither do women, and it's terribly misogynist of you to suggest otherwise.


I do think that there is a line between slightly-barbed invective and outright harassment.

That being said, I do find it interesting that a movement that encourages women to be strong and independent simultaneously seems to harbor many who are extremely over-sensitive about any sort of criticism.
 
2014-08-18 5:18:57 PM  
3 votes:
I'm probably one of the most pro women, bordering on feminazi, dudes you'll ever encounter yet even I find GM to be a little over the top wither her particular brand of feminism.

Still though she's a cool chick despite that.

Also she's pretty hot.

*ducks*
 
2014-08-18 5:17:53 PM  
3 votes:

Muzzleloader: mediablitz: Genevieve Marie: But Misandry? Is still not a thing.

So it's a word, in the dictionary, with a definition, but it's not real because you say it isn't? It's been used for hundreds of years. Are you seriously that close-minded and myopic?

It's amazing that you are that narrow minded and allowed to make decisions here.

Not really, it does explain a lot  about the decline in this site over the last 5 years tho


I mean, I've complained about the rampant misogyny here for years, to no avail. I've mentioned my SO is a feminist and no mod ever gave a sh*t about the load of misogynistic posts that followed. I even got a timeout for complaining about the misogyny that was allowed here. I also think the misandry claim is overblown.

But to just outright say it doesn't even exist? What kind of willfully ignorant, sexist crap is that?
 
2014-08-18 5:17:17 PM  
3 votes:

Fafai: Genevieve Marie is objectively wrong about her views on misandry and should feel bad and embarrassed.


I suspect she will. I suspect many feminists, women and men, will realize in 10 - 30 years how ridiculous and objectionable they were when they were younger.

I even think the extremists at Jezebel will be horrified by what they wrote, as they grow older and have children, boys, and see how what they wrote doesn't describe the world around them.

Some will think it's because they changed the world, and others will realize how hateful their thoughts once were and that their actions and speech were divisive and slowed progress considerably.

Even now we see

#WomenAgainstFeminist (which really just comments on what polls show the majority of women think)

Families Advocating for Campus Equality - a group of women, mostly feminists and former feminists fighting the title ix tribunals on campus

Former ACLU anti-porn feminist Wendy Kaminer a long time ago because a free speech advocate after realizing what feminism was doing.

And on and on.
 
2014-08-18 5:13:02 PM  
3 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Misandry will be a thing when:

1) There have never been any men who are presidents of the United States
2) Almost all major religious figures world wide are women
3) Women make more money than men just because of our gender
4) Insert, etc, ad nauseam.


Probably there is a more sensitive way to put the "Don't be a dick thing"? I'm ok with "Don't be an asshole."

But Misandry? Is still not a thing.

Quit trying to make fetch happen. It's never going to happen.


Let me get this straight: you are OK with the whole rape thing as long as it's only men involved (no women)? Why are you even a mod if you're supportive of rape jokes against men?

No, I haven't red all 1000+ comments in full, just happened upon this blatant biased response from a farking mod of all people.
 
2014-08-18 5:12:43 PM  
3 votes:

Glendale: Allow me to deviate from the slew of white-knighting the mods. When will general hurting someone's feelings become bannable?

Why are you not listing misandry right along side this? I suppose that means you mods are continuing to support rape jokes against men. If you're going to make it wrong for one sex then you can't be hypocritical about it for the other.


Depends on whose feelings get hurt.

Men can't be victims and aren't allowed to have feelings.

But women are delicate sensitive flowers, so the littlest thing can give them the vapours. Everything possible must be done to protect these fragile specimens from the merest hint of discomfort.
 
2014-08-18 5:03:32 PM  
3 votes:

Lanadapter: Damn it drew you're turning fark into a cesspool of civil discussion and general human decency.

Farewell old fark, you loveable hive of scum and villainy


Therein lies the issue. It's not that anyone supports misogyny, rape, gay bashing or being a jerk in general, but this was a place where humor was put above the taboo.

I'll come out and say it, GM and her ilk came in and changed things, and perhaps for the better, but definitely for the less free, and that is more offensive than $8 and a candy bar.
 
2014-08-18 5:03:26 PM  
3 votes:

mediablitz: Genevieve Marie: But Misandry? Is still not a thing.

So it's a word, in the dictionary, with a definition, but it's not real because you say it isn't? It's been used for hundreds of years. Are you seriously that close-minded and myopic?

It's amazing that you are that narrow minded and allowed to make decisions here.


Not really, it does explain a lot  about the decline in this site over the last 5 years tho
 
2014-08-18 4:48:39 PM  
3 votes:

Stoj: [img.fark.net image 345x436]


i560.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 4:46:20 PM  
3 votes:
One last insight... this place had been kind of been slowly getting weird for a few years but it was still more or less the Fark I stumbled across back in 2004.

The day I noticed a marked changed and a total flush down the drain into incessant, nonsensical trolley McDerpland was the Newton thing. I swear someone somewhere must have posted a link to Fark over on Freep or some other hatemongering looney site and the dam broke. It just has not been the same since. Even TFD which was always a safe haven from the mainpage silliness started having these guys bumbling in and farting out their nuggets of "wisdom".

Ain't no putting the genie back in the bottle I guess.

Meh.

Whatevs.

I just hope you're making some good cash off all this, Drew. Seriously.
 
2014-08-18 4:33:07 PM  
3 votes:
ilifejourney.files.wordpress.comView Full Size


Assuming this applies to comments and not just headlines, just implement a per-post vote system and let the readers police the site.  This allows readers to take things in context and decide if the content is appropriate.  If a post gets downvoted a certain number of times, just hide it from view with the option for people to see it if they like.

Yeah yeah, Reddit already does this - and it's the best way to do it.  Leaving it up to moderation is bad for mods and readers alike.

If this only applies to headlines, well then carry on.
 
2014-08-18 4:24:44 PM  
3 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: The problem here is that being anti-feminist is seen as being misogynistic -as if feminism is the sole definer of what is correct and good.

I guarantee from my brief interactions with the Modmin feminist jihad -that this won't be a crackdown on "rape jokes" but rather an excuse to censor political opinions.

One such opinion is that feminism is not legitimate. One could go into depth on this subject but my past recent experience is that the Modmin/Jihadists are more interested in maintaining a happy little groupthink.

This would be my last post HERE on the subject.


Good for the goose, good for the gander theory would imply misandry would be a ban offense as well. However, being against misandry is seen as being misogynistic. This is evidenced by feminists shaming women (and calling them quite a few uncouth names) for posting affirmative things in #WAF or "I don't need feminism because" memes without repercussion. So my guess will be, except for a few isolated things (e.g. rape jokes) it'll still be perfectly ok to be a misandrist on Fark.
 
2014-08-18 4:24:24 PM  
3 votes:
if we're going to fully derp up, why not replace the FarkUs tab with a discussion tab geared toward female interests - relationships and butterflies and confortable thongs and tampon applicators and insert them over there as a safe, heavily moderated welcoming space for literettes.
 
2014-08-18 4:23:51 PM  
3 votes:
I had really thought Fark had more diversity of thought until I read this circle-jerk of a thread. As much as I cringe at some of the stupid stuff said to women on here, I don't really think censorship is a good course of action. Seems more like a way to give people the ability to censor posts they don't like, not just those mired in misogny. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, and we still have a good amount of snark, satire, and the like on here.

/did PZ Myers buy Drew's fark account?
 
2014-08-18 4:22:12 PM  
3 votes:
The entitled outrage caused by a "no rape jokes" rule lets me know that this site has not changed and will not anytime soon.
 
2014-08-18 4:20:02 PM  
3 votes:
The most amusing thing ...

The #1 Fark thread OF ALL TIME has about a 60% violation of this policy.

20,000+ comments. Never happen again. Oh well.


http://www.fark.com/comments/3687963
 
2014-08-18 4:17:28 PM  
3 votes:

CatherineM: Also, there are a lot of TFers in this thread that I never see around TFD. What gives, guys and gals?


Personally, I find TFD to be too much of a circle jerk... and me, pretty much armless.
 
2014-08-18 4:17:18 PM  
3 votes:

gimmegimme: So if there's no more sexism allowed, does that mean Jezebel links are off the table?

http://jezebel.com/5509717/domestic-violence-are-women-as-abusive-as -m en

I'm sure that it's just an oversight that the title of TFA mentions "misogyny" and not just "sexism."  I'm sure it's your intention to protect men and women equally, right?


It's only sexism when men do it. Like only white people can be racist.
 
2014-08-18 4:14:57 PM  
3 votes:

LaMolecule: I'm also a domestic abuse and rape survivor so excuse me if I don't find the jokes funny. As far as I'm concerned, some things should be off the table.



So your personal experience should dictate what everyone else around you can discuss?

/ The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-08-18 4:12:22 PM  
3 votes:
Drew Curtis is going to buy Gawker and use it as the media platform to support his campaign for governor of Kentucky, but the Jezebel folks wouldn't go along with the sale unless he cleaned Fark up.

You read it here first.
 
2014-08-18 4:11:55 PM  
3 votes:
A lot of Internet 7s are going to get vacations when their comments are not appreciated by women who don't tolerate that nonsense from anyone who's not an 8 or above.
 
2014-08-18 4:07:10 PM  
3 votes:
Gotta say seeing comments vanish here isn't building confidence kids
 
2014-08-18 4:05:25 PM  
3 votes:
Bring on the Jezebel partner links!
 
2014-08-18 4:02:08 PM  
3 votes:
I've followed Drew Curtis for years. And I've been operating under the assumption that the reason Drew devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn't get it. Well, I was wrong. Drew's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Drew's problem is that he can't sell it! We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, Drew Curtis is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things, and two things only -- making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you run a website. You gather a group of middle age, middle class, middle income Farkers who remember with longing an easier time, and you talk to them about Florida, and Kardashian values and yoga pants, and you wave an old photo of the Pope's girlfriend and you scream about misogyny. You tell them she's to blame for their lot in life. And you go on Fark and you call her a whore. Sydney Ellen Wade has done nothing to you, Drew. She has done nothing but put herself through farrier school, represent the interests of Eskimo left-handed, albino midgets, and lobby for the safety of lawn darts. You want a character debate, Drew? You better stick with me, 'cause Sydney Ellen Wade is way out of your league. I've loved two women in my life. I lost one to Candy Crush. And I lost the other 'cause I was so busy driving my Yorkie to dog shows, I forgot to do my job. Well, that ends right now.
 
2014-08-18 4:02:01 PM  
3 votes:

Satan's Chocolate Starfish: ReverendJynxed: Satan's Chocolate Starfish: All the complaints about Drew increasing ad revenue are bizarre. WTF is he supposed to do, not want money?

Get a grip on reality, folks. You don't get everything in life handed to you for free.

It's not that he's doing it, it's HOW he's doing it. Stirring hate against one side is bad form.

That's bullshiat. You don't have a bit of proof that Drew deciding to take on misogyny on HIS website is an attempt to create revenue. You're making it up out of thin air.


i.imgur.comView Full Size


The more clicks the better right? He does it for the money yes?

He is clearly siding with the wimmens not offering a fair and balanced view from the other side of the debate.

There you go.
 
2014-08-18 4:01:30 PM  
3 votes:

Fallout Boy: On one hand, I think this is terrible and that people need to get a sense of humor; there are also bigger fishes to fry considering the shocking amount of racism displayed in the Michael Brown threads. On the other hand, it has been entertaining to see these men's rights losers complain about this change.


There has always been a certain undercurrent of casual racism here. Whether it's about African Americans, Mexicans/ Latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners, or any other ethnic group, there will- in virtually every thread- be a handful of individuals spouting that sort of crap.

Said individuals will generally be seen in later threads complaining that Farkers make fun of the Southern accent.
 
2014-08-18 3:59:19 PM  
3 votes:
In all seriousness I come to fark to read the comments and laugh. All this is going to do is limit the amount of funny content. I get that not everyone has the same sense of humor (try explaining fark to people sometime) but this is just going to limit the amount of funny comments.

The aisle seat comments are usually the best ones and those are the boderline over the top type of comments rules like this are going to limit. There are plenty of websites where clean moderated threads exist. Fark was not one of them really until today.
 
2014-08-18 3:53:00 PM  
3 votes:

LlamaGirl: HAS ANYONE ASKED IF MISANDRY IS BEING REGULATED YET?


That doesn't exist, just like there is no such thing as racism against a white person.
 
2014-08-18 3:52:46 PM  
3 votes:
The old wild west internet is slip sliding away. More and more censorship now. I have never made a rape joke and do not ever intend to make one, but prefer would prefer that my online communities to stay wholly unfiltered with respect to content. Its good to see the ogres, and remember they're out there. I'm fear I'll forget about them if we force them into the dark, and that they'll spring when I least expect them.

Soon the cable companies will own and filter the internet completely, and today will look like the wild west. When that happens the world will be a much less interesting place.
 
2014-08-18 3:47:37 PM  
3 votes:

lostcat: Good.

After one of the recent threads from a Jezebel story I was starting to feel like Fark was definitely skewing misogynist.


That tends to happen when posting mysandrist links. Post extremist crap and the other extreme will respond.
 
2014-08-18 3:44:59 PM  
3 votes:
so all the posts showing the existence of misandry were moderated, while the posts laughing at men's suffering remain. I guess that question is answered.
 
2014-08-18 3:40:55 PM  
3 votes:

Genevieve Marie: Context has always and will always be taken into account.


You actually believe that, don't you?
 
2014-08-18 3:38:44 PM  
3 votes:
As a lady, I thank you, Drew. I was starting to really cringe at some of it, and I know I can't be the only female around here who's considered just not being around Fark as much as a result of it all.
 
2014-08-18 3:37:59 PM  
3 votes:

Roook: RIP boobies tab


Excellent point. Fark has its own dedicated porn section. Porn is demeaning to women, I'm told. What happens to foobies?
 
2014-08-18 3:36:51 PM  
3 votes:
But if the MRAs can't spout off their bullshiat then how will we know how to identify and ignore them?

In all seriousness, yeah, ok, it's an admirable stance to take...but I'm not really for censoring comedy. The ones who talk about it seriously are complete jerks but most people on here are just joking around and using "misogyny" as a way to poke fun at the absurdity of the genuine belief in it. I just wish it didn't have to come to this because being able to laugh about these kind of things makes them a lot less powerful. And honestly, some rape jokes can be funny...and I say this as both a woman and someone who has been sexually assaulted.
 
2014-08-18 3:32:17 PM  
3 votes:

serial_crusher: Would a UFIA joke be considered a violation of the new rules, or just crude?


upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size


/ Fark's come a long way since 2006, I guess
 
2014-08-18 3:31:20 PM  
3 votes:
Next up: FARK announces corporate investment/buyout.
 
2014-08-18 3:28:39 PM  
3 votes:
Is it "misogynistic" to suggest that all of you nancy-boys grow a pair and stop letting what people say on the internet get your panties in a wad?
 
2014-08-18 3:23:59 PM  
3 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: mitchcumstein1: Who can we relentlessly mock still?

That's a very valid question. Can we have a ruling on this?


White men.
 
2014-08-18 3:22:43 PM  
3 votes:
Here is the text we added to the Farq.  You'll notice it covers more than just misogyny.

Sexism, Racism and LGBT bashing: Fark is a humor site, and we've done more than our fair share at poking fun of others, often for what they've done, sometimes for what they've said, occasionally because they look funny. Fark has long prided itself on being irreverent and sarcastic.
That said, there are still some things that cross the line, and misogyny, racism and LGBT bashing are some of them. So just to be clear: these things will not be tolerated.
We know that on the internet, it's impossible to know the difference between a person with hateful views and a person lampooning hateful views to make a point. The mods try to be reasonable, and context often matters. We will try and determine what you meant, but that's not always a pass. If your post can be taken one of two ways, and one of those ways can be interpreted as misogynistic, racist, or LGBT bashing, the mods may delete it and could even give you a timeout--even if that wasn't your intent.
 
2014-08-18 3:22:39 PM  
3 votes:
We have a lot more MRA's than I had previously suspected.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-08-18 3:22:29 PM  
3 votes:
KingoftheCheese: Let's add more to the FArQ that the moderators don't follow half the time anyway.

Here is a personal rule I have for dealing with Fark:

If I start taking it too seriously, I need a timeout.

If I take offense at a Farker or an individual comment, that's what the ignore list is for. It's a great feature and if Mike were a woman I would totally... wait, we can't say that any more, can we? Anyway, I use my ignore list.

But if I start getting enraged in general at the rising tide of hatred and stupidity, or my links not getting picked, or inconsistent moderation and stuff getting deleted, I take a day off. Or a week. Or six months.

As the FaRQ notes, the posting guidelines are is an attempt to explain what "don't be a dick" means. It's not meant to be an algorithm.

When the narc feature was introduced all those years ago one of the modmins said it wasn't to be used for routine trolling. So I generally don't narc comments except for NSFW violations and some way over the line stuff that might get law enforcement's attention. (I think I flagged one comment in the past year.) If the mods now want it to be used for more routine offensive speech they can say so. But I'll be sending a dozen notes a day about political stuff because it all looks the same to me.  Saying anybody who disagreed with you politically is a retard falls into the same category as saying women are sluts.
 
2014-08-18 3:21:43 PM  
3 votes:

LaMolecule: abhorrent1: We're gonna add misogyny to the guidelines because you're not allowed to have opinions our moderators don't agree with.

Yeah, it's a f*cking terrible thing that you have to agree not to hate women and make jokes about rape and domestic violence.

HOW DARE THEY BELIEVE IN BEING A DECENT HUMAN BEING?

If this pisses off misogynists enough to make them leave and head over to r/redpill, that would be awesome.


Why do we have to be misogynists? Can't we just be people who don't get offended by the jokes and don't care about your feelings or if other people take offence?
 
2014-08-18 3:19:45 PM  
3 votes:
Remember to report every image of a sexy woman. We wouldn't want to be misogynist or anything by enjoying them.
 
2014-08-18 3:19:41 PM  
3 votes:
I've been a lurker on Fark for a very, very long time, and I'm not very sensitive, but there a while back things got really ugly in some of the threads. No, we don't need to be rescued from ugly people saying ugly things, but I am happy about the attempt to at least address this particular problem.  Savage is right - good on you for doing this.
 
2014-08-18 3:17:27 PM  
3 votes:

BlackPete: So how do we post in a Todd Akin thread?


Pretty much this.

When the entire platform of the GOP party apparently concerns r*pe, I'm not sure how we are supposed to make fun of that.

You don't try to debate with r*pists, you make fun of them. You take their deep thoughts and you repeat them back to them. If you stand on a podium with them and try to argue with them, you just give their barbarism weight.

Mel Brooks said it better than I did when he talked about making jokes about Hitler but I didn't invent "legitimate r*pe", the GOP did. They also invented "wand r*pe" and quite a few other terms and concepts meant to demean women and subjugate them. I don't know how else to humiliate those monsters than to simply repeat their words back to them time and time again.
 
2014-08-18 3:15:31 PM  
3 votes:

CJHardin: It's rather interesting to see who is upset by this new policy.  Apparently this new guideline has struck a nerve in a few Farkers, wonder why?

It's not as though Drew decided that we can't talk about political parties or such.


As a female, I think it's stupid. We police the threads pretty well ourselves with our reaction to dumb comments, so I think adding another layer of moderation that can be arbitrary, well, quite frankly, isn't going to go over well.
 
2014-08-18 3:14:59 PM  
3 votes:
The SJW have been harassing Fark or a lawyer with a SJW bent rather, I guess.
Any votes on the next item on the nosayum list?

I miss the old fark, where saying inappropriate things resulted in the thread verbally biatchslapping you.  Oh wait, did I just break the new rule by saying biatchslap?
I have seen plenty of threads that self policed, and the ignore list has resolved the issue for many folks as well.
 
2014-08-18 3:12:21 PM  
3 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: The problem here is that being anti-feminist is seen as being misogynistic -as if feminism is the sole definer of what is correct and good.

I guarantee from my brief interactions with the Modmin feminist jihad -that this won't be a crackdown on "rape jokes" but rather an excuse to censor political opinions.

One such opinion is that feminism is not legitimate. One could go into depth on this subject but my past recent experience is that the Modmin/Jihadists are more interested in maintaining a happy little groupthink.

This would be my last post HERE on the subject.


Well... bye.
 
2014-08-18 3:11:20 PM  
3 votes:
It's rather interesting to see who is upset by this new policy.  Apparently this new guideline has struck a nerve in a few Farkers, wonder why?

It's not as though Drew decided that we can't talk about political parties or such.
 
2014-08-18 3:10:53 PM  
3 votes:
Does this site still sponsor or co-exist on the same owned rack space as Foobies?

If it does.. .this is a freaking joke.

"No no .. It's ok if you do it .. just ... don't let the advertisers see it."
 
2014-08-18 3:09:08 PM  
3 votes:
beldar.blogs.comView Full Size

Seriously though, if enforced as Drew's described that'll go fine.

But this new rule + mission creep would = the same bizarre definition as "misogyny" has gotten among the PC crowd. Unclear rules are worse than no rules at all. Hopefully everyone will know what we're getting into before we get into it...
 
2014-08-18 3:07:44 PM  
3 votes:
Sounds like Drew got a girlfriend.
 
2014-08-18 3:05:58 PM  
3 votes:
Good. Now as long as we're going to act like adults on here instead of middle schoolers, can we please get rid of the farking naughty word filter?
 
2014-08-18 3:04:19 PM  
3 votes:
So this is how this ended. Interesting.
 
2014-08-18 3:02:29 PM  
3 votes:
I can't wait to see this rule applied to all the morons in the politics threads.

It'll be even more fun when Fark goes after all the racists.
 
2014-08-18 3:02:10 PM  
3 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: I take it this also means no more "penis goes where?" in the mugshot of the week threads?

This is a bad idea Drew.  It reeks of being thin skinned and kissing the advertiser's asses.  Fark grew up on being an asshole and an asshole it should remain.


Don't worry we'll still be assholes, that's not going to change
 
2014-08-18 3:01:01 PM  
3 votes:

lindalouwho: CJHardin: Kinda sad that we actually need to have rules against this.

But I am thrilled to see it!

I hate even seeing people be mean to someone. Me - I couldn't care less about what strangers on the internet say to me, but not everyone is like that. This will save us commenters from calling people out ourselves, to a degree.


Oh, I'm happy to see it too!  It takes away from some of the public smackdowns that occur but I'm cool with that.

In my experience, Fark has been superior to every other forum and the vast majority of users are really cool people, however opinionated.  Unfortunately there is always the few bad apples that spoil the basket.
 
2014-08-18 3:00:39 PM  
3 votes:
Good. Been seeing a whole lot of MRAs 'round here lately.
 
2014-08-18 3:00:09 PM  
3 votes:
Drew, you're no fun anymore
 
2014-08-18 3:00:05 PM  
3 votes:
But I assume that misandry is still perfectly fine, isn't it?
 
2014-08-18 2:59:49 PM  
3 votes:
I like all the dudes who are like, BUT.. BUT WHAT ABOUT MISANDRY
 
2014-08-18 2:57:41 PM  
3 votes:
And misandry as well I hope.

Don't want to appear sexist.
 
2014-08-18 2:55:29 PM  
3 votes:
So no PIV comments then, right? Because I'm a radfem and feel like that goes into rape territory. It will destroy TFD, but so be it. Glad we're moving in this direction.
 
2014-08-18 2:53:18 PM  
3 votes:

It's Me Bender: RexTalionis: However, if you guys can actually do something about some of the seriously rampant racists around on Fark, that'd be great, though.

Honestly I have not noticed much of a problem.


I have, it's especially noticeable in the #Ferguson/Michael Brown threads.

There's also one admin who seems to delight in greenlighting threads that are excuses for Farkers to post their favorite anti-Chinese slurs. As a Chinese guy, I take notice to that.
 
2014-08-18 2:52:50 PM  
3 votes:
Hell, I may go back to TF if that means this will cull the herd of some of the assholes.
 
MBK
2014-08-18 2:51:24 PM  
3 votes:

vbob: As long as we are all of one liberal mindset, then I guess it's okay.


So it is a liberal mindset to treat women like human beings?

...guess I'm a liberal.
 
2014-08-18 2:51:15 PM  
3 votes:
Headline of the week!  Cuz sluts are still funny!!

Courtney Love says she blew $27M of Nirvana's money, Billy Corgan, Trent Reznor, Russell Brand, Gavin Rossdale, Ted Nugent, and Scott Weiland
 
2014-08-18 2:49:37 PM  
3 votes:

insertsnarkyusername: wild gorgors roamed free


When Drew looked over the breadth of his domain he was sad.  It was wild and untamed.  He vowed to bring peace, stability, and bourbon to his people and they would love him for it.

He wore his crown on a troubled brow because he knew, first of all, he would have to slay the Gorgor.
 
2014-08-18 2:48:20 PM  
3 votes:
meatballcandy.comView Full Size


RIP 40 lb box
 
2014-08-18 2:47:29 PM  
3 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: How are we supposed to make fun of Republicans now?


... or even discuss their party platform that seems to consist mainly of misogyny (and rape)
 
2014-08-18 2:47:18 PM  
3 votes:
Can we ban the phrase mattressback now?

Also, subby's mom jokes are old. Get some new material, people.
 
2014-08-18 2:46:50 PM  
3 votes:
Thank you. Some of these threads have been getting uncomfortable to be in.
 
2014-08-18 2:44:48 PM  
3 votes:
Seeing this made me happy. Seeing the generally positive community reaction made me delighted and glad that I've wandered back to Fark after a long time away.
 
2014-08-18 2:44:37 PM  
3 votes:

dangelder: What about legitimate rape jokes?


They're gonna shut that whole thing down.
 
2014-08-18 2:42:51 PM  
3 votes:
I suspect traffic will be down about 20% just with the elimination of "subby's mom" jokes.
 
2014-08-18 2:42:32 PM  
3 votes:
*sniffs statement with mild cynicism*

Awright, I'll accept it at face value.

How about out and out constant lying?
 
2014-08-18 2:42:14 PM  
3 votes:

Drew: - Jokes suggesting that a woman who suffered a crime was somehow asking for it


Is it okay to suggest that a man who suffered a crime was somehow asking for it?
 
2014-08-18 2:42:11 PM  
3 votes:

JerseyTim: Pocket Ninja: This headline could be interpreted as meaning that misogyny is now a requirement.

Yeah, I thought they were now making sure all moderators hate women.


We tossed the idea around but half of them are women so it wasn't practical
 
2014-08-18 2:41:38 PM  
3 votes:
List of people allowed to make rape jokes:

1. Rape victims.

End of list.
 
2014-08-18 2:41:09 PM  
3 votes:
weknowmemes.comView Full Size
 
2014-08-18 2:40:20 PM  
3 votes:
I think we're going to need a ruling on "Your mom" jokes.
 
2014-08-18 2:40:14 PM  
3 votes:
I guess it's time to retire that old box of rape jpg.
 
2014-08-18 2:39:29 PM  
3 votes:
Brilliant, and long overdue. Thanks Drew!
 
2014-08-19 6:43:56 PM  
2 votes:

DrBenway: As far as the "You Gonna Get Raped" guy goes, I'd be inclined to pull it for similar reasons that "Lootie" got yanked recently as much as for the rape angle. Arguments have been made by more than a few people in this thread that, despite sanctions already in place regarding racism, it's still no small problem here, and it would be disingenuous to claim that race is no factor in the application of either image. BUT -- I get that someone who has actually been raped or assaulted, or has had that happen to someone close to them, might very well not be cool with it, and ultimately that affects us all because rape, after all, kind of sucks. I can see why it could be a problem, but what I can't see is how yanking the image is the most outrageous thing EVAR. Which goes back to the interesting situation we have where the people complaining the most about this alleged surrender to over-sensitive, easily offended PC little flowers are the ones having the most over-the-top irrational meltdowns now.


Ah, see, you're a new name to me. Don't think you know me. I will rail against rape, rapists, and rape defenders. I was violently raped by a former "friend" of mine, two weeks after my mother died, the day after farking Christmas.  It was pretty awful, as you can imagine. And then I had his friends defend him, hold him up as a good guy, blame me, mock me, threaten me, and as a matter of fact, had to leave my own band's show after we played, but earlier than I wanted to, because the piece of shiat had the nerve to show up at a show he had no business being at other than to harass and intimidate me.

Huh. Real world problems, no? Serious shiat, eh?

And yet, somehow, I can read Fark threads and not end up in a mental ward or crying on the floor of my closet for a month. Why? Well...
(a) This site is mostly comedy;
(b) This site is actually full of people of above average intelligence when you read the regular posters;
(c) Most people do not find actual rape funny or worthy of jokes; rapey Lincoln, 40 lbs of rape, you gonna get raped guy... they are not the same as having your ex-husband call you "rape girl" for trying to get justice against your attacker.  Holy crap, look at me, capable of putting things in perspective;
(d) If someone cannot deal with conversations about rape and potentially off-handed comments or even the once in a great while bad joke (or the asshole who is a rape defender - I have a few marked in red) here's a clue: those headlines tell you what the thread is about. If "rape" is in there, well, guess what the thread is about? Nobody is making you read the thread. If I'm having a day I can't deal, I wouldn't click, either. I often do. I find it cathartic to  talki about the subject, to debate it and to hand it to some asshole who has no idea what (s)he is talking about.

But hey, you know what they say about assumptions and all.
 
2014-08-19 5:35:30 PM  
2 votes:

falcon176: coincidentally over at reddit, they're currently suffering a SJW moderation rampage on some girl gamer who slept her way onto Steam, so if you want to see what's in store for fark, head on over to r/gaming and check out the deleted wasteland. remember kids, it's misogyny if the subject of speech is a woman.


so what Drew is doing will prevent us from becoming a shiathole like redit?
<imokwiththat.png>
 
2014-08-19 5:35:00 PM  
2 votes:

stonicus: And I understand wanting to eliminate misogyny, misandry, bigotry, rape... but not jokes. I'm just one of those people that think no topic is off limits for making jokes.


I agree completely... If you're talking about actual, humorous jokes intended to not be taken seriously... As opposed to thinly-veiled bigotry that the poster fully intends to be taken seriously, but is using an unfunny "joke" covering for plausible deniability... The racist comics that make fun of Obama? Those are meant to be taken seriously, despite being in a so-called "joke" format... The farker that drew it meant it, and so likely did the person that posted it! They're only "funny" to other racists... But, quoting Blazing Saddles, on the other hand, is an obvious joke... It was a comedy movie and was very obviously meant humorously and never to be taken seriously, and it's very, very unlikely anyone here posting a reference to it means it seriously...

If it's true that quoting Blazing Saddles or posting the 40lb box of rape (which isn't even a joke, per se, just laughing at absurdity and a silly name for a plant) is now verboten, well then I agree Drew has gone off his meds (ie: booze)... I'm hopeful that's not really the case...
 
2014-08-19 5:22:59 PM  
2 votes:

serpent_sky: RobSeace: I find it hard to see how a box of rapeseed is threatening or offensive... Now, the "You gonna get raped" guy, on the other hand, can certainly be used in a threatening/offensive manner...

Yes, it's absolutely terrified and I am threatened and offended by a picture. I am afraid that guy will literally jump through the screen and rape me.

And if anyone is, they need to get the fark off the Internet and go hide in a closet somewhere that nothing can "trigger" them.

Where are all the sane, funny, and interesting Farkers going now that everything is screwed up? I mean, Tumblr already exists for these over-sensitive "wimmin" or whatever they want to be called. (And they DO NOT speak for me, a woman, who has enjoyed Fark for over a decade.) That's what I want to know. Where will we be able to have the conversations we've always had without worrying about being perfectly PC and following some asinine rules?


you know what, serpent?  You're a totally awesome chick who's so totally not like all those Feminazis and I'd love to buy you a beer cuz you're totally down with rape jokes!! LOL

 Is that what you wanted?  a pat on the head and assurance that you're "cool"  and accepted into the rude boys club?
Because that's  another thing on Fark that REALLY needs to go.
Just because you're supposedly cool with it does not make it standard.
 
2014-08-19 4:30:34 PM  
2 votes:

Fafai: All I want to know is, on a scale from one to ten, just *how* frustrating is it having to repeatedly explain to people that the face of feminism they see day-to-day is wrong and that they are therefore 'wrong' about the conclusions they draw of it?

Also, just how realistic do you think it is to ask of people "look I know it looks and quacks exactly like a hostile duck but if you just work with the duck as it bites and attacks you, after some time you might manage to get it behind an x-ray machine and scrutinize it very closely. Then you just might see that there is some percentage of the duck's insides that are not completely 100% hostile. It'll be worth getting attacked over I promise because this is important to me. Go ahead. Engage with the hostile duck."

/because I think a reasonable person would want to stay away from said duck


You should SEE the things feminists send the "women against feminism" sites. They use all the "misogynist" terms that they hate. They "fat shame" - another thing they hate. They call people stupid. They call them ignorant. They wish death and rape on them.  The screen grabs are very telling and the moderators of the sites have made them public to show what they deal with for daring to disagree with the modern US feminist brigade.

So long as you 100% agree with them, agree that anything and everything is "threatening and triggering" (unless they are saying it, in which it is a-okay, apparently... none of them ever answer why they can call someone names that the filter would eat here, but if a man did, it would be just short of actual, physical rape....) it's good. Otherwise, they're like absolute savages. So they get catered to. Stop catering to these people, please.  They make all women look bad (which is why so many of us are against them) and they don't actually care about any of this, they just want to impose their sanitized, man-hating (and women who disagree with them hating) ways on the whole world.
 
2014-08-19 4:16:02 PM  
2 votes:
Just curious. If I do as RoyBatty did and wonder aloud whether ciberido has me on ignore if she will placate me with a non-answer as well.

All I want to know is, on a scale from one to ten, just *how* frustrating is it having to repeatedly explain to people that the face of feminism they see day-to-day is wrong and that they are therefore 'wrong' about the conclusions they draw of it?

Also, just how realistic do you think it is to ask of people "look I know it looks and quacks exactly like a hostile duck but if you just work with the duck as it bites and attacks you, after some time you might manage to get it behind an x-ray machine and scrutinize it very closely. Then you just might see that there is some percentage of the duck's insides that are not completely 100% hostile. It'll be worth getting attacked over I promise because this is important to me. Go ahead. Engage with the hostile duck."

/because I think a reasonable person would want to stay away from said duck
 
2014-08-19 3:11:16 PM  
2 votes:

Drew: Adding misogyny to Fark moderator guidelines.

Adam Savage once described to me the problem this way: if the Internet was a dude, we'd all agree that dude has a serious problem with women.

We've actually been tightening up moderation style along these lines for awhile now, but as of today, the FArQ will be updated with new rules reminding you all that we don't want to be the He Man Woman Hater's Club.  This represents enough of a departure from pretty much how every other large internet community operates that I figure an announcement is necessary.

There are lots of examples of highly misogynistic language in pop culture, and Fark has used those plenty over the years. From SNL's "Jane, you ignorant slut" to Blazing Saddles' multiple casual references to rape, there are a lot of instances where views are made extreme to parody them. On Fark, we have a tendency to use pop culture references as a type of referential shorthand with one another.

On SNL and in a comedy movie, though, the context is clear. On the Internet, it's impossible to know the difference between a person with hateful views and a person lampooning hateful views to make a point. The mods try to be reasonable, and context often matters. We will try and determine what you meant, but that's not always a pass. If your post can be taken one of two ways, and one of those ways can be interpreted as misogynistic, the mods may delete it -- even if that wasn't your intent.

Things that aren't acceptable:

- Rape jokes
- Calling women as a group "whores" or "sluts" or similar demeaning terminology
- Jokes suggesting that a woman who suffered a crime was somehow asking for it

Obviously, these are just a few examples and shouldn't be taken as the full gospel, but to give you a few examples of what will always be over the line. Trying to anticipate every situation and every conversation in every thread would be ridiculous, so consider these guidelines and post accordingly.  I recommend that when encountering gr ...


Feminist take over of a community is  the death knell of it.  How much of a bubble do you live in where you cower to social justice warriors who make up single digit percentage of the population?  You honestly think that makes good business sense?  You think censorship and stifling a free speech is the way to go to pacify people that don't understand humor - ON A HUMOR WEBSITE.
 
2014-08-19 1:54:56 PM  
2 votes:
I want to thank several farkers in this thread, one in particular, for making some very well placed "We had to destroy the village to save the village" to argue why arbitrary one-sided speech restrictions enhance discussion.

I've also been corrected as I had thought Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes' famous fire in a theater quote ...

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop -u sing-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/

i.imgur.comView Full Size


See also, Hitchens, Christopher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyoOfRog1EM

i.imgur.comView Full Size


Fire, fire, fire, fire. Now you've heard it. Not shouted in a crowded theatre, admittedly, as I seem now to have shouted it in the Hogwarts dining hall. But the point is made. Everyone knows the fatuous verdict of the greatly over-praised Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, who, when asked for an actual example of when it would be proper to limit speech or define it as an action, gave that of shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre.

It's very often forgotten what he was doing in that case was sending to prison a group of Yiddish speaking socialists, whose literature was printed in a language most Americans couldn't read, opposing Mr. Wilson's participation in the First World War, and the dragging of the United States into that sanguinary conflict, which the Yiddish speaking socialists had fled from Russia to escape. In fact it could be just as plausible argued that the Yiddish speaking socialists who were jailed by the excellent and greatly over-praised Judge Oliver Wendell Holmes were the real fire fighters, were the ones shouting fire when there really was a fire in a very crowded theatre indeed.


And who is to decide? Well, keep that question if you would - ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, I hope I may say comrades and friends - before your minds.
 
2014-08-19 12:10:55 PM  
2 votes:
YES. LETS STAY OUT OF THE GREY AREA AND BE VANILLA AND BORING.  LETS ALL TALK ABOUT RECIPES AND MAKE FARK A BIG STUPID CAFE SITE.

mIm
 
2014-08-19 12:01:17 PM  
2 votes:

R.A.Danny: Bacontastesgood: Still ok to make fun of people who are really dumb, smart, or fat, right?  And assburgers?  And anyone overly passionate about anything?

You can make fun of anyone as long as you're a feminist.


Catch-22: Feminists have no sense of humor.

/feel like sarcasm is really hard around this subject
 
2014-08-19 11:19:39 AM  
2 votes:

phenn: Maybe I'm just not paying close enough attention. But, as a Farkette, I don't think I've witnessed much in the way of misogyny in these threads. Rudeness, yes. But, definitely not the hate one would associate with misogyny.


According to feminists like Genevieve Marie, that's just because you're either too stupid to recognize  misogyny or you also hate women.

ciberido: That really is the issue, isn't it? You think you own the community, if not the entire Internet, and that those of us who might not appreciate your farting are the johnny-come-latelies who should just shut up and deal?


You might have a point if the URL at the top of this tab said jezebel.com in it. But when it comes to a site that has for years stated with pride that they offend more people by 9 am than other sites do all day, yeah, you are the johnny-come-lately dropping a turd in the punch bowl.

RobSeace: I hope that sort of shiat changes with this new regime, too...


Oh yeah, the new Tumblrina-based feminist regime will be completely fair. Sure. And there's miles and miles of oceanfront property for sale in Arizona.
 
2014-08-19 11:15:27 AM  
2 votes:

Wasteland: I'm not personally all that bothered by it; but then, I've always mostly participated in the discussion aspect of Fark anyway.  But at the same time, I can see why people more invested in the humor are cringing at this, because they're here for the omelettes.  It's a big deal for the site, and it's going to become a bigger one as more time passes.  This change isn't just additive or subtractive, it's ecological.


I think a lot of us our cringing due to the threat to the discussion aspect of it.

When people in thread state that being against feminism is misogyny, when admins up thread acknowledge they intentionally redlight certain kinds of links (seemingly ones mocking feminism) , then yes, it's a direct hit on the power and value of the discussions at FARK.

Oh, I said the wrong thing in a thread? I criticized feminism? That means either a comment deletion or worse!?

Note too the admin who said that too many people ignoring you can even get you considered for a ban from FARK.

That's not the FARK I knew.
 
2014-08-19 11:15:18 AM  
2 votes:
Isn't making extra rules to protect women, itself, sexist?
 
2014-08-19 10:55:25 AM  
2 votes:
Maybe I'm just not paying close enough attention. But, as a Farkette, I don't think I've witnessed much in the way of misogyny in these threads. Rudeness, yes. But, definitely not the hate one would associate with misogyny.

I'll tell you what, Drew. If you really want to clean up hurtful, hateful content, you may wish to consider taking down that offensive side banner depicting someone in a straight jacket.

I think we all learned in the past two weeks that mental illness isn't really joke fodder.

/$.02
 
2014-08-19 10:55:17 AM  
2 votes:

Theaetetus: Isn't it more accurate to say that you're making it damn clear to feminists that you would rather there not be any places in the world where people who don't like smack talking can go? That you're trying to sanitize the world of such places?


Hardly. I stay the fark out of Jezebel and places like it. Feminist enclaves are safe from me precisely because I seek out places that aren't feminist enclaves. It's just that everywhere I already was, they show up and want to turn it into some kind of 'safe space' where everyone has to treat them with kid gloves.

It's farking lame.

James!: If you see something, say something.


I had no idea you worked for the TSA. Explains a lot, though.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Sure they do. They just don't have a right to anyone else caring.


I guess that's why it has to be a rule that if someone female gets offended, caring about it is mandatory.

Theaetetus: It is the utmost of hypocrisy to claim that restrictions that prevent the suppression of speech are themselves suppressing freedom.


Restriction is by definition suppression. Calling someone an ignorant slut doesn't 'suppress' them. They are perfectly free to continue speaking. What suppresses a person is making rules barring them from speaking in the first place.

ciberido: Wrong on all counts. But it's telling that you accuse someone of being biased and unintelligent when they point out facts which are inconvenient to you.


No one whose arguments boil down to 'LOL Misandry isn't real!' and '"Don't be a dick" has nothing to do with sexism' is in any way concerned with a factual basis for argument.
 
2014-08-19 10:52:08 AM  
2 votes:

Bacontastesgood: Still ok to make fun of people who are really dumb, smart, or fat, right?  And assburgers?  And anyone overly passionate about anything?


You can make fun of anyone as long as you're a feminist.
 
2014-08-19 10:49:26 AM  
2 votes:

R.A.Danny: ciberido: Because People in power are Stupid: t's about the content of her posts. It doesn't matter when or where. She openly ascribes to the bizarre feminist worldview which is a victimhood cult. Generally, people like this aren't impartial and use whatever power they have to further their cause.

The only people in this thread openly ascribing to a victimhood cult are the ones who confuse being told to knock it off with the rape jokes already with oppression.

I wish you could understand just how weak and petty you sound.

I wish you could understand how much it looks like you're trying to be a bully.


I'm still waiting for her response to I think Roybatty about how people can be anti feminist without being misogynistic. She thinks they can't. She thinks it's all just reacting to faux or rad feminism and that it's all poe's law and strawpeople.

ciberido, do you ever get tired of explaining to people that their perception of feminism is all wrong? At what point does it become a PR issue on your end of things? Is the majority of people misinformed about 'real' feminism? If so, is that their fault? How long can you keep blaming everyone else for 'not getting it' before realizing you have a serious publicity problem in house? Where can I get a "bathe in male tears" shirt?
 
2014-08-19 10:30:15 AM  
2 votes:

Because People in power are Stupid: t's about the content of her posts. It doesn't matter when or where. She openly ascribes to the bizarre feminist worldview which is a victimhood cult. Generally, people like this aren't impartial and use whatever power they have to further their cause.


The only people in this thread openly ascribing to a victimhood cult are the ones who confuse being told to knock it off with the rape jokes already with oppression.

I wish you could understand just how weak and petty you sound.
 
2014-08-19 8:26:48 AM  
2 votes:
Having gone through the entire thread (good lord), the biggest concern I have is how this will affect political threads.

Humor and satire are powerful tools. I can see the rules being abused, esp if the mod on duty is for or against a particular subject. A large number of political and religious discussions may never have occurred, or the thread never even posted in the 1st place.  Buried in a lot of the crap were valid arguments from all sides of political thought. And how do we discuss commentators/pundits/comedians if there subjects/comments are off limits. Could we even post a Leno routine about Bill Clinton and cigars, or a Daily Show clip lampooning Sarah Palin without it getting yanked for political reasons (using the new rules as cover)?

The intent is good The reasoning is valid. The effect can be chilling. Be careful.
 
2014-08-19 3:17:34 AM  
2 votes:

Theaetetus: If I was officially-sanctioned, wouldn't I be a mod?

/that would be a dark day for the trolls.


And reasonable people who take exception to sophistic bullshiat.

Don't leave us out. That would be biased...and I hear that's frowned upon, now.
 
2014-08-19 3:09:39 AM  
2 votes:

spamdog: HotWingAgenda: Can I respectfully suggest not throwing all of us TFD folks into the same handbasket to hell? We may all have stars on our bellies, but aside from that we're just like the rest of the Sneetches here.

Well, I'm seeing far too much of it in liter land. We seem to like greenlighting trash TFD threads with only three people in it, because it's late and I'm a mod, also fark you.

That always makes me feel like part of a community, you know - when I go into a thread and it's full of TFD people who all know each other and push an us-vs-them mentality for vain reasons.


You and someone else who has been here almost as long as me just said something like this. Mods can't greenlight threads, only admins can. It's been that way since the very beginning. Yes each and every mod and admin have their own personal viewpoint, but this place has always been pretty swell compared to other places. I haven't been TF for years until just now...all I got was a hearty welcome back buddy! Age old adage my friend, if you don't like the context of the thread, don't click it.
 
2014-08-19 2:55:48 AM  
2 votes:
Largely I couldn't care less about these rules as they won't affect me in any significant way.

However, one should always be mindful of the pedestal they are standing on if they are claiming a moral high ground.

The following images on t-shirts are all available for sale via the Fark store and essentially are jokes that are about statutory rape, racism, kidnap/torture of women or just sexist in nature.  Depending on personal sensitivity levels there might be more that qualify.

img.fark.netView Full Size


img.fark.netView Full Size


img.fark.netView Full Size


img.fark.netView Full Size


img.fark.netView Full Size


img.fark.netView Full Size


And yes I know this has been posted before, but it is of special significance since Drew referenced and decried it out in his opening post.
img.fark.netView Full Size


Now as mentioned, doesn't affect my life, but if Drew et al want their stance to be taken seriously and not just passed off as lip-service or a cheap concession to the tumblr crowd, they might want to clean up their store or at least try to look consistent in their message.
 
2014-08-19 2:31:04 AM  
2 votes:

feckingmorons: Those are disquieting. I try to pretend they don't exist. The article just seems... unusual.


Ever been in a place where you were working through some really negative feelings and were finally in a place to put them in context and move on from them? That was pretty much that moment.

It was working through the paradox of being both told that your most valuable asset is your looks and your sexuality and also that this is what makes you worthless and stupid. Something a lot of women experience.

And being public about it? Was my moment of "Yea, not going to be ashamed of this or act like it's something to be ashamed of anymore." Once you're willing to share something openly, it ceases to be something with the power to hurt you.

That was me shining a little light on a bit of darkness that was a large part of my depression and anxiety when I was younger.

Which is why I will never regret writing that article, even if I cringe a bit at the wording these days. It's what helped me move on.
 
2014-08-19 2:06:04 AM  
2 votes:
goddamnitsomuch.

So what happened to the "Welcome to Fark" Jpg? Does that offend women also?

What about standing up to pee is that still allowed or are you gonna stop doing that also?

Why don't they just go cry in the corner and stay off the internets for fear someone might say something that offends them?
 
2014-08-19 2:04:44 AM  
2 votes:
Welp, time for bed.

I'm sure this will turn out just like warrantless wiretaps.  Don't worry, they're only going to use it against the bad people.
 
2014-08-19 1:52:59 AM  
2 votes:
My biggest problem with all of this is GM being an arbiter of what counts as misogyny.

Anyone who wrote the article she wrote, grandstanded about it on this very site, and has no regrets about it.. should have no standing authority on the subject of gender.

Excuse the hyperbole, but it's like letting Farrakhan head the bench on civil rights trials.
 
2014-08-19 1:48:10 AM  
2 votes:

"If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise."
- Noam Chomsky
 
2014-08-19 1:21:13 AM  
2 votes:

paygun: Satan's Chocolate Starfish: Just ban the shiat. You're waiting to see if banning demeaning pics of Down's kids is "change that you guys are ready for"? Are you serious? In what universe is ridiculing developmentally disabled children something that's acceptable? Why in the world would taking action on this crap have to wait "until it starts ruining the user experience of others"? It's f*cking abusing disabled children, plain and simple.

Read between the lines.  Demeaning jokes about retarded kids don't affect advertising dollars.


Maybe not yours. I've never clicked on an advertisement on here, or bought anything from the fark store. I pay my five bucks and that seems like enough to me.

My uncle Jim was retarded (that was the term before it became politically incorrect and that is the term he used so I'm sticking with it.). Nicest guy you would ever want to meet. Always happy, never an unkind work. Got up and went to work at the sheltered workshop in Allentown every day earning pennies per hour. Never without a smile.

That is why I call people out for posting the count to potato, ching chong potato, or anything similar. They're scumbags and should be made aware of that so they can stop being scumbags.
 
2014-08-19 1:11:58 AM  
2 votes:

Genevieve Marie: nd I'm not sure how many times I can say that I agree with you that the photos making fun of disabled children are exceedingly distasteful, or that it's something we should talk about and figure out how to address.



down's kids have been around for thousands of years, as old as mankind, fark is like 10, and i guess only within the last, oh, i don't know, several months (or years) did this require intervention.  not hard to take a stand.  i guess.

"should talk about and figure out how to address" = vapid politician's "i can see your viewpoint, and i seem to think that perhaps, i might be inclined, at a future point, that, maybe, we can sit down and start a dialogue, that, maybe, one might think that, perhaps, according to some folks, i don't know, maybe, this is something that will devote my full attention, at the right time."

you have the power we don't.
 
PJ-
2014-08-19 1:11:54 AM  
2 votes:
I've been around for a little while, been on the sidelines even longer.  I have to say, this is worse than an ex-smoker preaching about smokers.   This is worse than anti-abortionists because of 'gods will', but goes and uses birth control.  This is worse than a PC gamer buying a console and saying there is no real difference between console and PC.  This is worse than a transvestite going post-op and saying cross dressing is wrong.

Actually, you know what this really sounds like?

Fark is getting married to Jezebel.
 
2014-08-19 12:37:05 AM  
2 votes:
There will be some yapping. A few crappy people will leave. More good people will come.
Dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
Good work, Drew - you pissed off a bunch of assholes tonight.
They'll get over it.
 
2014-08-19 12:00:53 AM  
2 votes:

insertsnarkyusername: And it is possible that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990. Likely no, but possible yes.


What's most telling is Beck's refusal, after so many years, to so much as address the issue publicly. Why can't he just air an official denial?

I'm not saying whether or not the man in fact committed those horrible crimes in 1990. Truth is, I don't know.

All I'm doing is raising the question.

A question Beck is afraid to answer.
 
2014-08-19 12:00:14 AM  
2 votes:

i2.kym-cdn.comView Full Size


Genevieve Marie:
This is just an effort to curtail the really bad parts of it- the parts that are really dehumanizing and ugly.


b-b-b---b--b--b-b--b-b-bbut Down's Syndrome is so funny!!!!


the stuff this place takes stances on.  jesus.
 
2014-08-18 11:38:32 PM  
2 votes:
If you listen to all the whining, wailing, and gnashing of teeth going on here, something emerges with crystal clarity: trolls want an offended argument.
All this bullshiat about freedom of speech is just that - bullshiat.
They are free to go on 4Chan and post the vilest things that pop into their warty little mind. But that doesn't do it for them, because the only people who will see it there are trolly assholes just like them - who not only won't be offended, but will double down with even more obnoxious, juvenile, and pointless crap of their own. And many of the old timers there have troll-fu that is far superior to theirs. And that's no fun.
What they really like is regurgitating their intellectual vomit in front of intelligent people, so that they can get off on the disgust and distaste that they engender.
Unless they can use their own lack of personal boundaries and maturity to make a stench in the nostrils of their superiors (or those who they suspect are their superiors), there's nothing in it for them.
If they just wanted to be free, they could go to /b and be free.
They want to make the grownups listen to their squalling, and smell the dung in their diapers. That's why they want to hang around Fark
 
2014-08-18 11:33:51 PM  
2 votes:

Oh_Enough_Already: Genevieve Marie: Do you guys honestly think that if I were as crazy as you seem to think I am that I would have been kept around as long as I have been?

Um, yes? Because any move to terminate you would be met with howls of "sexism" and a concomitant Jezebel article. Not to mention the trump card of "let me go and I'll say you raped me."

Women exist. Accountability exists. Women held accountable for their actions is pure fiction.


It's kind of funny how the most hyperbole-filled, overwrought comments seem to be coming almost entirely from people who are the most adamantly opposed to this new policy as being some sort of kneejerk overreaction to something that's not really a big deal. Downright ironicalicious.
 
2014-08-18 11:32:05 PM  
2 votes:

Skyrmion: ox45tallboy: Skyrmion: ox45tallboy: pheed: How are you supposed to mod a humor site?  You are humorless - or at the very least your version of "humor" is terrible.

I have never once heard Bill Cosby tell a racist joke, or a misogynistic joke, or a joke demeaning to LGBT people.

And he is well renown as one of the funniest, most respected comedians ever.

Rapists aren't funny!

*Rape* isn't funny, and I think that situation was horrible. But his comedy outside of his personal life was well respected, and not full of racism and misogyny.

Should we judge George W's painting on the basis of his presidency?

I was being slightly facetious, though I can't say I am a fan of either Cosby's comedy or GWB's painting.

I do think it should influence how respected he is, though.


Look at it this way, then. Bill Cosby actually makes an even better example.

Bill Cosby may have been a sexist and misogynist and a horrible person to the kids on his show (from a business perspective), but he didn't say those kinds of things in his comedy. He kept that sort of thing away from his audience.

It doesn't matter if you're a misogynist, or a racist, or you don't like gay people in your own life - no one wants to hear that sort of talk here, and if you want to keep expressing yourself, then you need to express those particular feelings somewhere else.
 
2014-08-18 11:31:18 PM  
2 votes:
Of all to the stupid comments in this thread, it saddens me just how many of them were posted my mods.
 
2014-08-18 10:57:14 PM  
2 votes:

gja: I am not contradicting myself. You just don't like restricted and limited bear the same brand. Selective censorship.


You've agreed that speech that incites is not protected... Are you also railing against that prohibition as "selective censorship"?

My feeling is this MAY be the right thing to do here, but let's be honest and stop calling it a free speech zone and these measures are done in the onterest of making it 'free-er'.
That's nonsense.


I disagree. This is an example of a free exchange of ideas, with restricted speech:
A: "I believe X, because [reasons]."
B: "I disagree. I believe Y, because [other reasons]."
A: "I believe my [reasons] are correct over your [other reasons] because [further reasons]."
Etc.

While this is an example of free speech that restricts the exchange of ideas:
A: "I believe X, because [reasons]."
B: "I disagree. I believe Y, because [other reasons]."
A: "Shut up, you dirty [slur]. You're wrong, because [your minority group] are inferior."
C: "Yeah, B, shut up, you dirty [slur]."
D: "Ha! Stupid dirty [slur] B!"

Unrestricted speech can absolutely be used to suppress the exchange of ideas, and it's the free exchange of ideas that is the desired goal of an intellectual society - not the naive "free speech", which at the extreme is merely "might makes right".
 
2014-08-18 10:32:47 PM  
2 votes:
This is all because of that Popehat article over the weekend isn't it.
 
2014-08-18 10:30:50 PM  
2 votes:
This is a really good thread.  It's like Farkback with the in-the-trenches mods.
 
2014-08-18 10:28:13 PM  
2 votes:
I'm torn by this whole policy. Not really, I think it's childish and insulting to everyone.

However, I cracked open an Alaskan Jalapeño Imperial IPA, so all's good
 
2014-08-18 10:25:12 PM  
2 votes:

doyner: BUT I SWEAR TO EVER-LOVING GOD THAT IF YOU BRING AVATARS INTO THIS I WILL RAGE QUIT SO HARD YOU'LL WISH IT WAS A RACIST WOMAN-HATING JEW AND ARAB-BASHING, SPAMMING, HACKING, PATENT-TROLLING LAWYER FLOODING YOUR SERVERS INSTEAD.


DOYNER FOR PRESIDENT
 
gja
2014-08-18 10:21:22 PM  
2 votes:

Theaetetus: restrictions that prevent the suppression of speech are themselves suppressing freedom.


How does anyone posting offensive things suppress another's speech?
You are not thinking this through at all, are you?