FARK.com: (8368014) Huge cash-only transactions; mules and private couriers; no names; hiding from government scrutiny: Inside the world of illicit drugs. Lethal injection drugs, that is

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		Huge cash-only transactions; mules and private couriers; no names; hiding from government scrutiny: Inside the world of illicit drugs. Lethal injection drugs, that is (businessinsider.com)		81
		More: Interesting, Monetary Economics, lethal injection, Missouri Department of Corrections, sodium thiopental, St. Louis Public Radio, death penalty, yellow jackets

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1360 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Aug 2014 at 8:47 AM (8 years ago) | Favorite | share:

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Karac

2014-08-09 8:38:08 AM

Son of Thunder: Pretty slick move there, anti-DP activists. Harass suppliers until they want to be anonymous, then claim that anonymous transactions are too shady to allow.

I'll pass that advice along to the pro-life activists.

Will you also pass along the fact that there's a clear difference between not being able to find out what the government is doing and not being able to find out your neighbors private medical information?

dookdookdook

2014-08-09 8:39:49 AM

The difference being that the suppliers of lethal injection drugs actually have something to be ashamed of and therefore a reason to desire anonymity.

Unless your idea of "harassment" is the same arson, murder, and general terrorism used by "pro-life" activists in the past.

firefly212

2014-08-09 8:58:20 AM

lotta anti-death penalty people pipe bombing facilities at which they're done?

Eddie Barzoom

2014-08-09 9:00:16 AM

Maybe you can support the government killing people in a way that looks like they are killing people and not performing some sort of medical procedure. Then we would not have to worry about the drugs. Any half a mechanic can build a guillotine.

Tyrone Slothrop

2014-08-09 9:02:36 AM

I say we should bring back public hanging. Let people see what is on the end of their newspaper spoon, as Burroughs said.

baka-san

2014-08-09 9:02:59 AM

The death penalty serves no purpose other than to allow DA's to say they are "tough of crime"

way south

2014-08-09 9:05:07 AM

What about guns?
Can't we just use guns?

/everyone else in government is using guns.
/except the people who's ONLY job is to kill.
/seriously, how did that get so farked up...

I May Be Crazy But...

2014-08-09 9:09:10 AM

Apparently a lot of veterinarians are taught how to use a gun to put down an animal humanely. You know, one bullet that scrambles the brain. Obviously that's not going to come in handy so much for a small animal vet, but apparently it's occasionally a good thing to know when there's a cow suffering seriously. Just do that. Yeah, it's gruesome, but what's that matter to the guy being killed? Nobody is forced to watch.

way south

2014-08-09 9:14:57 AM

baka-san: The death penalty serves no purpose other than to allow DA's to say they are "tough of crime"

It serves quite a few purposes in a society when its used properly. It gives you that higher grade of punishment for your most heinous criminals, and can save you all those resources spent on their incarceration. The public has always liked a good hanging, which sates their bloodlust and let's them feel the state has a lock on things.

Problem is we don't do anything properly. We put retards on death row and give life imprisonment to known monsters. We make the checks and balances procedures for the death penalty process far more complicated than we do for other penalties. Then when its finally time to make a kill we even FARK that up.

The DA gets to say they are just as tough on crime when they put pod heads in jail for as long as rapists. They won't be hurting when the executions are gone.

ILostMyPassword

2014-08-09 9:17:02 AM

I'm confused at what you mean, isn't being against the death penalty the very definition of pro-life. How can somebody use the term pro-life if they aren't anti-death penalty?

qorkfiend

2014-08-09 9:19:29 AM

way south: baka-san: The death penalty serves no purpose other than to allow DA's to say they are "tough of crime"

It serves quite a few purposes in a society when its used properly. It gives you that higher grade of punishment for your most heinous criminals, and can save you all those resources spent on their incarceration. The public has always liked a good hanging, which sates their bloodlust and let's them feel the state has a lock on things.

Problem is we don't do anything properly. We put retards on death row and give life imprisonment to known monsters. We make the checks and balances procedures for the death penalty process far more complicated than we do for other penalties. Then when its finally time to make a kill we even FARK that up.

The DA gets to say they are just as tough on crime when they put pod heads in jail for as long as rapists. They won't be hurting when the executions are gone.

It costs more to go through all the appeals for a death penalty case than it does to lock someone up for life, so it's not about saving resources.

firefly212

2014-08-09 9:21:56 AM

I May Be Crazy But...: Apparently a lot of veterinarians are taught how to use a gun to put down an animal humanely. You know, one bullet that scrambles the brain. Obviously that's not going to come in handy so much for a small animal vet, but apparently it's occasionally a good thing to know when there's a cow suffering seriously. Just do that. Yeah, it's gruesome, but what's that matter to the guy being killed? Nobody is forced to watch.

Maybe the public should be forced to watch what's being done in their name. Maybe if people had to actually see the results of the system the vote for, they would vote for something better.

way south

2014-08-09 9:21:59 AM

qorkfiend: way south: baka-san: The death penalty serves no purpose other than to allow DA's to say they are "tough of crime"

It serves quite a few purposes in a society when its used properly. It gives you that higher grade of punishment for your most heinous criminals, and can save you all those resources spent on their incarceration. The public has always liked a good hanging, which sates their bloodlust and let's them feel the state has a lock on things.

Problem is we don't do anything properly. We put retards on death row and give life imprisonment to known monsters. We make the checks and balances procedures for the death penalty process far more complicated than we do for other penalties. Then when its finally time to make a kill we even FARK that up.

The DA gets to say they are just as tough on crime when they put pod heads in jail for as long as rapists. They won't be hurting when the executions are gone.

It costs more to go through all the appeals for a death penalty case than it does to lock someone up for life, so it's not about saving resources.

A problem we've created by allowing a lot of nonsense to go down at trial.
Do it right the first time and an endless appeal system is less necessary.

way south

2014-08-09 9:24:49 AM

firefly212: I May Be Crazy But...: Apparently a lot of veterinarians are taught how to use a gun to put down an animal humanely. You know, one bullet that scrambles the brain. Obviously that's not going to come in handy so much for a small animal vet, but apparently it's occasionally a good thing to know when there's a cow suffering seriously. Just do that. Yeah, it's gruesome, but what's that matter to the guy being killed? Nobody is forced to watch.

Maybe the public should be forced to watch what's being done in their name. Maybe if people had to actually see the results of the system the vote for, they would vote for something better.

This is the Internet generation and they'd pay good money to gawk at a spectacle.

/cunning plan not thought through.
/4chan would rig the polls and elect a head smashing machine as president.

qorkfiend

2014-08-09 9:24:54 AM

way south: qorkfiend: way south: baka-san: The death penalty serves no purpose other than to allow DA's to say they are "tough of crime"

It serves quite a few purposes in a society when its used properly. It gives you that higher grade of punishment for your most heinous criminals, and can save you all those resources spent on their incarceration. The public has always liked a good hanging, which sates their bloodlust and let's them feel the state has a lock on things.

Problem is we don't do anything properly. We put retards on death row and give life imprisonment to known monsters. We make the checks and balances procedures for the death penalty process far more complicated than we do for other penalties. Then when its finally time to make a kill we even FARK that up.

The DA gets to say they are just as tough on crime when they put pod heads in jail for as long as rapists. They won't be hurting when the executions are gone.

It costs more to go through all the appeals for a death penalty case than it does to lock someone up for life, so it's not about saving resources.

A problem we've created by allowing a lot of nonsense to go down at trial.
Do it right the first time and an endless appeal system is less necessary.

You can't possibly be serious.

Doktor_Zhivago

2014-08-09 9:33:33 AM

How am I supposed to jerk off to revenge fantasies if they don't do this subby

rzrwiresunrise

2014-08-09 9:38:02 AM

way south: A problem we've created by allowing a lot of nonsense to go down at trial.
Do it right the first time and an endless appeal system is less necessary.

fifthhorseman

2014-08-09 9:43:08 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: I say we should bring back public hanging. Let people see what is on the end of their newspaper spoon, as Burroughs said.

Let's go all-in and initiate for-profit public hangings. Snap the neck, drain the blood and harvest the organs on the spot. Donate the blood to the local blood bank, and sell the organs to the Chinese. I just want 2.5% of the profits for the idea.

Nuclear Monk

2014-08-09 9:55:05 AM

as a vet, I always shudder a little when I have to put down a sick chinchilla that way.

/not really a vet

HotWingConspiracy

2014-08-09 9:57:48 AM

Son of Thunder: Pretty slick move there, anti-DP activists. Harass suppliers until they want to be anonymous, then claim that anonymous transactions are too shady to allow.

I'll pass that advice along to the pro-life activists.

No need, they're generally the people that support killing others.

BMulligan

2014-08-09 9:57:58 AM

Absolutely. If the state is going to slaughter human beings like livestock in cold blood in our names, we should be forced to watch it. Demand all broadcasters cover the execution live as a condition of being licensed. Take children out of class at school and make them watch. Show it on the Jumbotron at the stadium. If we have such a hard-on for killing, let's at least be open about it.

Dansker

2014-08-09 10:02:18 AM

way south:
A problem we've created by allowing a lot of nonsense to go down at trial.
Do it right the first time and an endless appeal system is less necessary.

So, you would rather get rid of the appeals system than executions?

Arkanaut

2014-08-09 10:06:39 AM

I think typically firing squads are supposed to shoot at the heart. Probably because they're going to have to turn over the body to the next of kin for burial, and funeral homes don't like having to reconstruct somebody's shattered skull.

Giltric

2014-08-09 10:06:44 AM

I lost a recent bid to supply death penalty states with lethal injection drugs.

My syringes were filled with air.

Giltric

2014-08-09 10:07:36 AM

Eddie Barzoom: Son of Thunder: Pretty slick move there, anti-DP activists. Harass suppliers until they want to be anonymous, then claim that anonymous transactions are too shady to allow.

I'll pass that advice along to the pro-life activists.

Maybe you can support the government killing people in a way that looks like they are killing people and not performing some sort of medical procedure. Then we would not have to worry about the drugs. Any half a mechanic can build a guillotine.

Plenty of 10$ bags of heroin killing people out there.....

Giltric

2014-08-09 10:10:05 AM

Ive been watching alot of liveleak videos recently.....

It would probably too difficult to have them ejected from a car doing 80mph.

How about pushing a metal scaffold up against some high tension wires instead?

Maybe let them get caught in a lathe?

Jim_Callahan

2014-08-09 10:11:14 AM

dookdookdook: Unless your idea of "harassment" is the same arson, murder, and general terrorism used by "pro-life" activists in the past.

That's... pretty much exactly what was being threatened when the secrecy rules were put into play, yes. Straight-up credible terrorist threats, and yes, I'm aware that's somewhat ironic coming from anti death penalty people but activists have no sense of irony.

... or was that your point, and I'm interpreting sarcasm as straight-faced ignorance?

// Retaliation by medical boards and so on was not a concern, as the state governments can make such retaliation straight-up illegal with about thirty seconds spent on a simple one-line bill. It was the physical safety of the drug company employees with respect to domestic terrorists that was the major concern.

Jim_Callahan

2014-08-09 10:18:44 AM

way south: Do it right the first time and an endless appeal system is less necessary.

I guess that applies to mistrials and procedural appeals... but you do realize that death penalty cases typically get mandatory appeals, right? Like, most states legally require at least one do-over of the convicting trial if the sentencing hearing comes back with a death sentence?

They're not, strictly speaking, optional most of the time. Appropriately so since it's rather difficult to exonerate a dead guy in anything more than the symbolic sense. There haven't been a lot of actual verified false convictions that resulted in execution (as in, the state actually exonerated post-execution, not the innocence-project math estimate of 300% of death row cases being the wrong guy or whatever ridiculous bullshiat they're pulling out of their asses this month) but it has happened, and a couple cases are more than enough to merit the extra legal caution involved.

MFAWG

2014-08-09 10:32:02 AM

Go stick your culture of life hypocrisy up your ass and spin on it.

Greek

2014-08-09 10:36:17 AM

Giltric: firefly212: I May Be Crazy But...: Apparently a lot of veterinarians are taught how to use a gun to put down an animal humanely. You know, one bullet that scrambles the brain. Obviously that's not going to come in handy so much for a small animal vet, but apparently it's occasionally a good thing to know when there's a cow suffering seriously. Just do that. Yeah, it's gruesome, but what's that matter to the guy being killed? Nobody is forced to watch.

Maybe the public should be forced to watch what's being done in their name. Maybe if people had to actually see the results of the system the vote for, they would vote for something better.

Ive been watching alot of liveleak videos recently.....

It would probably too difficult to have them ejected from a car doing 80mph.

How about pushing a metal scaffold up against some high tension wires instead?

Maybe let them get caught in a lathe?

Oh, jeez... Don't remind me of the "caught in a lathe" one. I accidentally came across a picture of that once while researching machine tools. That... was a disturbing picture.

For the love of God, Farkers, don't GIS this one. I found it unintentionally, and I think it scarred be for life. I don't like being anywhere near spinning metal shafts of any type anymore after seeing it, which, if I didn't take precautions, would be bad for my line of work.

BMulligan

2014-08-09 10:41:28 AM

Jim_Callahan: Like, most states legally require at least one do-over of the convicting trial if the sentencing hearing comes back with a death sentence?

I've noticed lately that you post a lot of nonsense - stuff that's just simply factually wrong. What's up with that?

Headso

2014-08-09 10:42:51 AM

Conservatives implicit trust in government to kill their fellow citizens but claim government can't be trusted to feed hungry children.

Mike_1962

2014-08-09 10:47:40 AM

Jim_Callahan: way south: Do it right the first time and an endless appeal system is less necessary.

I guess that applies to mistrials and procedural appeals... but you do realize that death penalty cases typically get mandatory appeals, right? Like, most states legally require at least one do-over of the convicting trial if the sentencing hearing comes back with a death sentence?

They're not, strictly speaking, optional most of the time. Appropriately so since it's rather difficult to exonerate a dead guy in anything more than the symbolic sense. There haven't been a lot of actual verified false convictions that resulted in execution (as in, the state actually exonerated post-execution, not the innocence-project math estimate of 300% of death row cases being the wrong guy or whatever ridiculous bullshiat they're pulling out of their asses this month) but it has happened, and a couple cases are more than enough to merit the extra legal caution involved.

Quite a few more than a couple. Also, once the execution has occurred, just how much investigation do you think goes on in the case? States are not going to fund an investigation that has the potential for costing them public opinion and reparations.

Tyrone Slothrop

2014-08-09 10:49:40 AM

What a pod head may look like:

hardinparamedic

2014-08-09 11:09:51 AM

So, question. Why don't we just give these people massive doses of research-quality heroin. The LD50 with complete circulatory collapse is 350mg. Just give them a gram, rapid IV push, and let nature take it's course

rzrwiresunrise

2014-08-09 11:15:00 AM

It's amazing the lengths these people will go through to kill someone. Extraordinary lengths don't apply to rehabilitation, mental health treatment, physical health treatment, vocational training, or population reduction in the prisons (ha ha, DP is a form of pop reduction). But killing the convicted? Ends of the Earth, baby, ends of the Earth.

jmr61

2014-08-09 11:19:27 AM

Bullets cost like 25 cents.

cchris_39

2014-08-09 11:28:17 AM

FTA -

Because the Danish maker of pentobarbital is now refusing to supply that drug to corrections departments.....

Ok you have until the close of business tomorrow to resume shipping or your U.S. patent goes in the shredder.

hardinparamedic

2014-08-09 11:28:38 AM

rzrwiresunrise: ha ha, DP is a form of pop reduction

What about Dv, Tv, DA, tv, or even the much sought after DVDA?

hardinparamedic

2014-08-09 11:30:10 AM

cchris_39: FTA -

Because the Danish maker of pentobarbital is now refusing to supply that drug to corrections departments.....

Ok you have until the close of business tomorrow to resume shipping or your U.S. patent goes in the shredder.

The Swedish government prohibits the export of drugs specifically used to end human life in judicial execution as a violation of human rights.

It

I May Be Crazy But...

2014-08-09 11:38:30 AM

That's a nice patent you have there. **Knock over a vase.** Be a shame if something happened to it.

cchris_39

2014-08-09 11:39:13 AM

hardinparamedic: cchris_39: FTA -

Because the Danish maker of pentobarbital is now refusing to supply that drug to corrections departments.....

Ok you have until the close of business tomorrow to resume shipping or your U.S. patent goes in the shredder.

The Swedish government prohibits the export of drugs specifically used to end human life in judicial execution as a violation of human rights.

It

Ah. Well then, let's tear up their patent now.

I May Be Crazy But...

2014-08-09 11:40:42 AM

Arkanaut: I May Be Crazy But...: Apparently a lot of veterinarians are taught how to use a gun to put down an animal humanely. You know, one bullet that scrambles the brain. Obviously that's not going to come in handy so much for a small animal vet, but apparently it's occasionally a good thing to know when there's a cow suffering seriously. Just do that. Yeah, it's gruesome, but what's that matter to the guy being killed? Nobody is forced to watch.

I think typically firing squads are supposed to shoot at the heart. Probably because they're going to have to turn over the body to the next of kin for burial, and funeral homes don't like having to reconstruct somebody's shattered skull.

Not a firing squad - one guy whose job it is to pull the trigger. There's already someone whose job it is to administer the drugs and the difference is cosmetic, not ethical. No, I lie. Without drugs that will do the job quickly and painlessly, there is an ethical difference.

SixPaperJoint

2014-08-09 11:41:14 AM

hardinparamedic: So, question. Why don't we just give these people massive doses of research-quality heroin. The LD50 with complete circulatory collapse is 350mg. Just give them a gram, rapid IV push, and let nature take it's course

I think there might be a better way.

How to Kill a Human Being- BBC Documentary

Jump to 36:45 for the TLDR conclusion. Spoiler: it's hypoxia. Painless, quick and humane.

If we are going to end someone's life for a crime we are obligated to be the "bigger person" and not stoop to the level of the condemned. It's supposed to be a form of justice not revenge.

Don't Troll Me Bro!

2014-08-09 11:48:23 AM

SixPaperJoint: hardinparamedic: So, question. Why don't we just give these people massive doses of research-quality heroin. The LD50 with complete circulatory collapse is 350mg. Just give them a gram, rapid IV push, and let nature take it's course

I think there might be a better way.

How to Kill a Human Being- BBC Documentary

Jump to 36:45 for the TLDR conclusion. Spoiler: it's hypoxia. Painless, quick and humane.

If we are going to end someone's life for a crime we are obligated to be the "bigger person" and not stoop to the level of the condemned. It's supposed to be a form of justice not revenge.

But you can tell by the reaction he gets when he brings up hypoxia that revenge and bloodlust is exactly what drives many people who are pro DP.

cchris_39

2014-08-09 11:50:37 AM

What do the assisted suicide people use? We never hear stories about that being botched so maybe that's an alternative.

hardinparamedic

2014-08-09 11:54:23 AM

cchris_39: Ah. Well then, let's tear up their patent now.

Pentobarb is not a patent drug in the United States. Its been off-patent for years.

Thanks to assholes like these people who want to use it for executions, a VERY useful drug in neurocritical care is almost impossible to get now.

SixPaperJoint: Jump to 36:45 for the TLDR conclusion. Spoiler: it's hypoxia. Painless, quick and humane.

Lethal injection by one drug method kills with hypoxia - alveolar hypoxia and hypoxemia induced by respiratory arrest. I can't watch the link at work, but I'm going to assume it's nitrogen asphyxiation?

Lethal injection by a one drug method - dilaudid/ativan or dilaudid/versed, and pentobarb alone have the benefit of inducing deep sedation, to the point of anesthesia. I suppose you could use an anesthesia machine-like rig to deliver a pure nitrogen-gas mixture to the condemned after inducing general anesthesia, but that increases the complexity of the process as well as the room for human error/cruelty

2wolves

2014-08-09 11:55:14 AM

"No it isn't!"

"Yes it is!"

Wash
Rinse
Repeat

VictoryCabal

2014-08-09 11:56:32 AM

Pod heads?

MST3K-trumpy.jpg

King Something

2014-08-09 12:06:02 PM

A quick and painless way of executing condemned criminals? Are you mad? The whole point of the death penalty in the US is to make sure that death row inmates don't get that luxury. You might as well suggest that crims executed in the gas chamber be asphyxiated with helium or nitrogen and die in their sleep from hypoxia instead of choking them with cyanide gas so that their last moments are spent writhing in fear and pain.

/and even if "Lethal Injection (Heroin)" was an option for execution, there's no way that option would be afforded to black inmates
//especially blacks on death row for killing white people -- the best they could hope for is "Lethal Injection (Air Bubble)" in the hopes that it's over in about five minutes

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