FARK.com: (8328228) Religious bakery tells customer it won't bake a Bert and Ernie cake because something.. something about gay marriage

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		Religious bakery tells customer it won't bake a Bert and Ernie cake because something.. something about gay marriage ( mirror.co.uk)		647
		More: Asinine, faiths, Bible Teach, Sesame Street character, Belfast Telegraph, Icing on the Cake, executive directors

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Deathfrogg

2014-07-08 11:17:51 AM

Clemkadidlefark: Smile. Make the cake. Drop the cake during delivery. Give them a refund. Problem solved. They are, after all, pursuing you to make their cake as a calculated scene in political thuggery. Return the favor.

Or, they could go to a Muslim Bakery (NSFW) and demand a gay wedding cake covered in the symbols of Israel.

Yes. let's see the strength of their convictions. Go ahead. I dare you.

I know a Jewish dude that has a screenprinting shop. One of his regular accounts was the local branch of HammerSkins. Straight up red shirts with a round white spot on the left chest and a black swastika in it, and the same but larger on the back. They paid their bill on time, they weren't totally unpleasant customers to deal with, and they kept coming back for several years. They knew he was Jewish, and he knew damn well what he was printing. They still did business.

Shrug.

Farking Canuck

2014-07-08 11:18:54 AM

Hate-mongers strike again.

Tom_Slick

2014-07-08 11:19:38 AM

Prince George: How about a Luke and Han cake?

Luke and Leia cake for incest is best week.

/I feel dirty and a little turned on.

Deedeemarz

2014-07-08 11:19:39 AM

Serious Black: Deedeemarz: Serious Black: Deedeemarz: Why is this such a big deal? Can't they just find another baker?

Not everyone lives in New York City and has fairly easy access to a couple dozen bakers. My mom grew up in a town that currently has 3,500 residents. How many bakers do you think work there?

I dunno, never been to New York. Live in a small town in Texas. We never go to a bakery. In our little towns, word of mouth is how you discover who the newest cake lady is. They advertise on grocery store bulletin boards and stuff I think. Also, unless this town is completely isolated and unable to connect to the rest of the area by internet or phone, you can surely find a nearby baker. Or are they not allowed outside the village walls? Is it too much to drive 15 miles to get the custom cake you want? Damn sure there is at least a Walmart that could suffice....

Last time I was there (which admittedly was about ten years ago), I don't recall there being a Wal-Mart in town. A quick Google search says the nearest Wal-Mart to this town is an hour away.

As to your other question about going to another town, there are three towns within half an hour drive of the original place in question. Their populations are 2,300, 1,700, and 250, i.e. much smaller and less likely to have a baker who is willing to bake a cake for a same-sex couple's wedding.

Then I suggest they make it themselves, have one delivered, or move. If you choose to live in an area where your options are that limited then I suppose you better learn to make do with what's available. Still not a reason to impose upon a local business person who isn't interested in having your business whatever the reason. If enough other people think the baker is wrong, then his business will suffer.

Smelly Pirate Hooker

2014-07-08 11:20:15 AM

Mad Scientist: Do you really want to eat food prepared by people who hate you?

This.

jlt

2014-07-08 11:21:31 AM

soporific: maxx2112: Queers can't get a cake. Nazis can't get a cake. Therefore, queers are Nazis . . . or something.

Now I really want to see a child named Judas Iscariot. (And it works for a boy or a girl.) Or perhaps Bennedict Arnold.

/because I apparently hate children today
//at least we're not naming a boy Sue
///let's name a boy Sue

I had a cat named Judas Iscariot.

Nutsac_Jim

2014-07-08 11:21:56 AM

Elliot8654: Nutsac_Jim: Gaylord Fister: "We should stop trying to force businesses to support something they don't believe in."

So stores should be allowed to refuse service to black people?

The bakery didn't refuse service to them. McDonald's might decline to make you a Quarter Pounder with
the patty cut into a shape of a pentagram.

Now, if you came in and had a pentagram necklace on and McDonald's simply refused to make you a Quarter Pounder, that would be different.

Um, this bakery does this exact thing on a daily basis. If I ordered a cake with "praise jesus" on it, they would do it. If I ordered one with a bible on it and "1 corinthians", they would do it.

They aren't doing exactly what they advertise they do, because they don't like the subject matter.

Last time I checked, McDonald's doesn't cut any burgers into any shapes for anyone.

Again. This is OK.

They are not refusing to bake you a cake because you are gay/black/woman. This would not be acceptable.

You are more than welcome to order a "praise jesus" cake from then, even if you are a black lesbian.

I can have my lawn mowed. I can tell my landscaper to make the mower setting really short and spell out "wetbacks are the devil's children" on my lawn.

He can certainly refuse to do this, even though he cuts grass, right ?

If he doesn't, he is just a racist, right?

genner

2014-07-08 11:22:10 AM

Strictly from a legal angle I wonder how this will turn out. They could argue that they wouldn't sell that particular cake to anyone regardless of sexual orientation.

GoldSpider

2014-07-08 11:22:49 AM

genner: Strictly from a legal angle I wonder how this will turn out. They could argue that they wouldn't sell that particular cake to anyone regardless of sexual orientation.

That too.

Satan's Bunny Slippers

2014-07-08 11:23:06 AM

MonoChango: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Here's a thought....if you have such issues with other peoples' lives PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS PUBLIC.

STFU bakers, and close your damn doors then.

Forcing someone to do something that is against their belief system is bad. Even if their belief is wierd, stupid or just something you just don't like. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I'm not going to tell a baker he can't be stupid. Nor am I going to tell gay guys they can't go have fun doing whatever they want to do. The main point here is that Burt and Ernie are NOT gay. Two guys that sleep in the same room are room mates and anyone who turns them into that just make a political point should just go DIAF. Quit screwing up my childhood!

I don't believe the same thing you believe. Who gets to be the "right" belief? That's just a silly argument. Either you are a business open to the public, and you provide services to the public, ALL the public, regardless if you agree with what they believe or not. I personally think that women over a certain weight (I'm female, btw) should not be allowed to buy yoga pants for whatever reason. However, if I were a store owner that sold yoga pants, and I got lots of business from fatties, I damn sure would stay stocked up on fatty yoga pants.

If you are a business owner and you think the money gays/blacks/women/fatties/little people spend is any different than the money old fat white men spend, you're an idiot.

Now the whole WTF with involving Bert and Ernie? I totally agree with you on that.

scottydoesntknow

2014-07-08 11:23:52 AM

Deedeemarz: Then I suggest they make it themselves, have one delivered, or move. If you choose to live in an area where your options are that limited then I suppose you better learn to make do with what's available. Still not a reason to impose upon a local business person who isn't interested in having your business whatever the reason. If enough other people think the baker is wrong, then his business will suffer.

I'll let The Cap speak on this suggestion

fiddlehead

2014-07-08 11:25:29 AM

Tom_Slick: If I were a baker I would refuse to make the cake on the grounds that Children's Television Workshop might sue me. You can have your Support Gay Marriage Cake, I'd draw the line at using Trademarked characters on it.

I see Sesame Street and Disney cakes at my local grocery store all the time.

Harry Freakstorm

2014-07-08 11:25:48 AM

Hello, nice Bakery Proprietor. I wish to purchase a cake. That one will be fine. White icing and a nice, vanilla cake. Perfect. I would also like to purchase two of those wedding people. They are lovely couples. Yes, two sets. Two grooms, two brides. Here is my money. Thank you and it's been a pleasure. I'll be telling all my friends that you sold me a ghey wedding cake and you will probably be condemmed to heck for it.

(Devilish laughter as I leave) (Maybe have a forked red tail hanging out of my pants that they see as I leave)

Bonus: I get a cake and I can launch the grooms on the 8:20 Roman Candle Express. The little brides stay with me - forever.

Satan's Bunny Slippers

2014-07-08 11:25:52 AM

Son of Thunder: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Here's a thought....if you have such issues with other peoples' lives PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS PUBLIC.

STFU bakers, and close your damn doors then.

Brilliant.

Next, we can drive a bakery owned by black people out of business if they decline to make a cake with white-power slogans on it. Then we'll find a bakery owned by Muslims and order a cake with an image of Muhammad on it, then use their reaction as an excuse to run them out of business. Top it off with a cake that says "The Holocaust Never Happened" from a bakery run by Jewish people, and call it a productive day.

sure, and we can put the signs back up forbidding black people at lunch counters, prohibit jews from shopping in muslim owned stores, whatever.

I see you still are the same pants on head reactionary you always are. Nice to see consistency.

MonoChango

2014-07-08 11:26:10 AM

Serious Black: MonoChango: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Here's a thought....if you have such issues with other peoples' lives PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS PUBLIC.

STFU bakers, and close your damn doors then.

Forcing someone to do something that is against their belief system is bad. Even if their belief is wierd, stupid or just something you just don't like. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I'm not going to tell a baker he can't be stupid. Nor am I going to tell gay guys they can't go have fun doing whatever they want to do. The main point here is that Burt and Ernie are NOT gay. Two guys that sleep in the same room are room mates and anyone who turns them into that just make a political point should just go DIAF. Quit screwing up my childhood!

I run a deli. I think women who are on their periods are poisonous and risk ruining society. I want to force women to reveal their cooters to me or a designated representative and prove that they are not gushing blood out of their twat before I allow them to come inside. Do you support my position?

"As long as it doesn't hurt anyone,

" Sexual assult would not qualify. But if some ultra conservitive Islamic wanted to kick all the woman out of his coffee house. I have no problem with him doing so. I would just not give him my money. There is a big difference between some butt head that will not serve "X" minority and a LAW that says "X" type of people does not have the same freedom other citizens have. If someone doesn't want to serve my brown wife and my mutt kids, fine we go somewhere else, and laugh the whole way out the door. That is freedom. It sucks that aholes exist but thankfully they don't generally last long in modern American culture. I think what people are trying to tell the gay community is that: Most people support your right to do what you want, but when you start using laws to force the issue, then You become the A-hole. And that is uncool.

theflatline

2014-07-08 11:26:30 AM

That ain't Bubble Bath.

Seems like Ernie is a power top.

Abe Vigoda's Ghost

2014-07-08 11:27:37 AM

Colour_out_of_Space: Religious Bakery?

Exodus 29:2 And from fine wheat flour, without yeast, make bread, and cakes mixed with oil, and wafers spread with oil.

Hypocrites

Well that was taken totally out of context, and has nothing to do with this discussion.

Consecration of the Priests

29 "Now this is what you shall do to them to consecrate them, that they may serve me as priests. Take one bull of the herd and two rams without blemish, ²and unleavened bread, unleavened cakes mixed with oil, and unleavened wafers smeared with oil. You shall make them of fine wheat flour. ³You shall put them in one basket and bring them in the basket, and bring the bull and the two rams. ⁴You shall bring Aaron and his sons to the entrance of the tent of meeting and wash them with water. ⁵Then you shall take the garments, and put on Aaron the coat and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastpiece, and gird him with the skillfully woven band of the ephod. ⁶And you shall set the turban on his head and put the holy crown on the turban. ⁷You shall take the anointing oil and pour it on his head and anoint him. ⁸Then you shall bring his sons and put coats on them, ⁹and you shall gird Aaron and his sons with sashes and bind caps on them. And the priesthood shall be theirs by a statute forever. Thus you shall ordain Aaron and his sons.

Cheesus

2014-07-08 11:27:50 AM

I support gay marriage, but I also support the bakery here. If they don't want to decorate the cake with something they disagree with, I have no problems with that. Sell the Bert/Ernie cake without the slogan and let the customers write the message. Now if they refuse to sell the Bert/Ernie cake based on sexual orientation, that's an actual problem.

ElwoodCuse

2014-07-08 11:28:05 AM

fiddlehead: Tom_Slick: If I were a baker I would refuse to make the cake on the grounds that Children's Television Workshop might sue me. You can have your Support Gay Marriage Cake, I'd draw the line at using Trademarked characters on it.

I see Sesame Street and Disney cakes at my local grocery store all the time.

They pay licensing fees.

MBooda

2014-07-08 11:28:41 AM

jlt: soporific: maxx2112: Queers can't get a cake. Nazis can't get a cake. Therefore, queers are Nazis . . . or something.

Now I really want to see a child named Judas Iscariot. (And it works for a boy or a girl.) Or perhaps Bennedict Arnold.

/because I apparently hate children today
//at least we're not naming a boy Sue
///let's name a boy Sue

I had a cat named Judas Iscariot.

Sir Gerald Nabardo has a pet prawn called Simon. Furthermore, Dawn Pailthorpe, the lady show-jumper, had a clam called Stafford, after the late Chancellor; Allan Bullock has two pikes, both called Chris; and Marcel Proust had an haddock.

AugieDoggyDaddy

2014-07-08 11:28:48 AM

Didn't Seasame Street Workshop say NO to the LGBTQ petitioners who wanted a wedding between Bert and Ernie? Reason being that they are puppets who do not have a sexual orientation or identity.

Deedeemarz

2014-07-08 11:29:25 AM

scottydoesntknow: Deedeemarz: Then I suggest they make it themselves, have one delivered, or move. If you choose to live in an area where your options are that limited then I suppose you better learn to make do with what's available. Still not a reason to impose upon a local business person who isn't interested in having your business whatever the reason. If enough other people think the baker is wrong, then his business will suffer.

I'll let The Cap speak on this suggestion

Well, that makes perfect sense if you have the time and money and energy to waste rather than just driving an hour to walmart to buy a cake from people who couldn't care what you want on it. Don't forget to make a sign and plant yourself outside the shop too.

GoldSpider

2014-07-08 11:30:39 AM

Cheesus: If they don't want to decorate the cake with something they disagree with, I have no problems with that.

In the US it would be a clear Free Speech issue.

Chongo79

2014-07-08 11:31:02 AM

"Why, hello there Mr. Atheist baker. Could I have a cake for my son's first communion?"

Elliot8654

2014-07-08 11:31:07 AM

Son of Thunder: Selena Luna: GoldSpider: Elliot8654: GoldSpider: Elliot8654: Is that a product they carry? No. Then you are an idiot.

Maybe you can insist that they carry pork and shellfish products, and then sue when they refuse.

You wanna sue a coffee shop when they don't serve steak? Or a pet shop for not selling elephant rifles?

"Reasonable" has nothing to do with it if we're going to use cases like this to compel businesses to produce whatever goods a customer demands.

THEY'RE ASKING A BAKERY THAT MAKES CAKES TO MAKE A CAKE. THIS BUSINESS ALREADY PRODUCES THESE THINGS. THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO PRODUCE THIS ONE BECAUSE THEY ARE BIGOTS.

Well, since you shouted, that must make it true.

Shouting doesn't make it wrong either.

xtech

2014-07-08 11:31:46 AM

menschenfresser: AllYourFarkAreBelongToMe: BFletch651: Oh, good lord. If some asshole doesn't want the job, just get someone else. You don't have to argue with everyone about everything.

^^^^^^^^
So much this.

And who the hell would WANT a cake baked by somebody who didn't want to bake it?

Those black boys in Nashville should have just gone to a different lunch counter where people didn't hate them.

oh goodie, this thread to update the ignore list.

all these butthurt 'waaah waah i want someone to bake me a cake who doesnt like me' apologists comparing this to the slavery movement.. ROFL.. wow....

GoldSpider

2014-07-08 11:32:26 AM

Elliot8654: Shouting doesn't make it wrong either.

Though I recently learned here that being offended does in fact mean that you're right.

ReverendJasen

2014-07-08 11:32:31 AM

Elliot8654: They aren't doing exactly what they advertise they do, because they don't like the subject matter.

They're allowed to. Many bakeries won't make you a penis cake for a bachelorette party, and some will. They're not refusing to serve women, they're refusing to make that one product they find distasteful.
Unless I missed something, this bakery is not refusing to serve gays--they're refusing to put a specific design on a cake.

Frank N Stein

2014-07-08 11:33:01 AM

Chongo79: "Why, hello there Mr. Atheist baker. Could I have a cake for my son's first communion?"

Doesn't change my answer. The baker still doesn't have an obligation to make a religious themed cake.

GoldSpider

2014-07-08 11:33:02 AM

xtech: all these butthurt 'waaah waah i want someone to bake me a cake who doesnt like me' apologists comparing this to the slavery movement.. ROFL.. wow....

And people who don't know what the word "discrimination" means.

The My Little Pony Killer

2014-07-08 11:33:28 AM

Can you people stop with the injecting of your own personal beliefs into your public life? You can go right ahead and hate the gays and stay closeted in your own time, but if you are in business to serve the public, you can bite your tongue for the couple of hours it takes to make and ice a nice cake for the nice paying customers.

scottydoesntknow

2014-07-08 11:34:04 AM

Deedeemarz: scottydoesntknow: Deedeemarz: Then I suggest they make it themselves, have one delivered, or move. If you choose to live in an area where your options are that limited then I suppose you better learn to make do with what's available. Still not a reason to impose upon a local business person who isn't interested in having your business whatever the reason. If enough other people think the baker is wrong, then his business will suffer.

I'll let The Cap speak on this suggestion

Well, that makes perfect sense if you have the time and money and energy to waste rather than just driving an hour to walmart to buy a cake from people who couldn't care what you want on it. Don't forget to make a sign and plant yourself outside the shop too.

Why should the people who did nothing wrong move? The bakery should move to a place that loves discriminating against gays. I hear Uganda is severely lacking in custom-made cake shops. And Russia.

Serious Black

2014-07-08 11:34:10 AM

MonoChango: Serious Black: MonoChango: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Here's a thought....if you have such issues with other peoples' lives PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS PUBLIC.

STFU bakers, and close your damn doors then.

Forcing someone to do something that is against their belief system is bad. Even if their belief is wierd, stupid or just something you just don't like. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I'm not going to tell a baker he can't be stupid. Nor am I going to tell gay guys they can't go have fun doing whatever they want to do. The main point here is that Burt and Ernie are NOT gay. Two guys that sleep in the same room are room mates and anyone who turns them into that just make a political point should just go DIAF. Quit screwing up my childhood!

I run a deli. I think women who are on their periods are poisonous and risk ruining society. I want to force women to reveal their cooters to me or a designated representative and prove that they are not gushing blood out of their twat before I allow them to come inside. Do you support my position?

"As long as it doesn't hurt anyone,
" Sexual assult would not qualify

I didn't say I or my designated representative would have to shove something inside their vagina to get the necessary proof. Women just have to reveal their crotches and provide visual evidence that they aren't bleeding profusely. That doesn't count as sexual assault because there is no physical contact. What's the harm in just looking?

jshine

2014-07-08 11:34:41 AM

Magorn: how hard would it have been for the bakery to simply mumble something about copyright laws and refuse to make the cake on those grounds instead? Dumbasses

Indeed; given that appropriating copyrighted characters without a license would leave them open to to a copyright violation lawsuit, it'd be a perfectly legitimate excuse.

/ baking the requested cake can get you sued, and not baking it can also get you sued
// glad I'm not a baker

GoldSpider

2014-07-08 11:35:24 AM

ReverendJasen: They're allowed to. Many bakeries won't make you a penis cake for a bachelorette party, and some will. They're not refusing to serve women, they're refusing to make that one product they find distasteful.
Unless I missed something, this bakery is not refusing to serve gays--they're refusing to put a specific design on a cake.

You aren't missing anything. This is a point that many in this thread are simply refusing to acknowledge because it castrates most of their argument.

The My Little Pony Killer

2014-07-08 11:35:24 AM

Circusdog320: Where did Jesus say love everybody except gay people?

He didn't. The people with these beliefs aren't following the Jesus of the Bible, they're following the Jesus who conforms to their prejudices. That's the only reason why they'd even bother following him.

grokca

2014-07-08 11:35:25 AM

Chongo79: "Why, hello there Mr. Atheist baker. Could I have a cake for my son's first communion?"

As long as you can get the priest to supply the filling.

MBooda

2014-07-08 11:36:10 AM

Cheesus: If they don't want to decorate the cake with something they disagree with, I have no problems with that.

There was something in the cake that disagreed with them.

Theaetetus

2014-07-08 11:36:34 AM

GoldSpider: Cheesus: If they don't want to decorate the cake with something they disagree with, I have no problems with that.

In the US it would be a clear Free Speech issue.

This. In that it's clear that freedom of speech isn't being infringed at all. In the same way, it's a clear income tax issue, a clear Miranda warning issue, a clear voting rights issue, etc.

Elliot8654

2014-07-08 11:36:36 AM

ReverendJasen: Elliot8654: They aren't doing exactly what they advertise they do, because they don't like the subject matter.

They're allowed to. Many bakeries won't make you a penis cake for a bachelorette party, and some will. They're not refusing to serve women, they're refusing to make that one product they find distasteful.
Unless I missed something, this bakery is not refusing to serve gays--they're refusing to put a specific design on a cake.

So if I order a cake that says "Dave and Rebecca forever" I am good, but if it says "bill and Jims love will never die" or maybe "to the love of Amanda and sharon"?

Ooh! I wanna order a cake labeled "Alex and Sam's wedding:2014". See if they can tell if it is for a day mens, lesbians, or straight couples cake!

Frank N Stein

2014-07-08 11:36:44 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Can you people stop with the injecting of your own personal beliefs into your public life? You can go right ahead and hate the gays and stay closeted in your own time, but if you are in business to serve the public, you can bite your tongue for the couple of hours it takes to make and ice a nice cake for the nice paying customers.

No, because freedom of speech (I realize this is in the UK and isn't a 1st amendment issue, but still applies)

GoldSpider

2014-07-08 11:36:55 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Can you people stop with the injecting of your own personal beliefs into your public life?

Oh the irony.

Gaseous Anomaly

2014-07-08 11:37:31 AM

I wonder where all of the Catholic bakers are that refuse to make cakes for second weddings.

The My Little Pony Killer

2014-07-08 11:37:37 AM

HoustonNick: I don't have to support your gay or straight marriage, but I have the right to choose what I do and do not support.

Your rights end where your "Open for business" sign begins. Just suck it up and make the cake, Nancy. You're only making yourself look bad otherwise.

GoldSpider

2014-07-08 11:38:37 AM

Theaetetus: This. In that it's clear that freedom of speech isn't being infringed at all.

I don't think the government here in the U.S. can compel you to endorse a particular viewpoint that you disagree with, but I could be mistaken.

doubled99

2014-07-08 11:38:44 AM

Except that being gay is not a "lifestyle." It's who a person is. So, if you love someone, you have to love all of them, even if that means that you are accepting that a part of them is not what you hoped for.

Oh, is that the rule?

Frank N Stein

2014-07-08 11:38:48 AM

Elliot8654: ReverendJasen: Elliot8654: They aren't doing exactly what they advertise they do, because they don't like the subject matter.

They're allowed to. Many bakeries won't make you a penis cake for a bachelorette party, and some will. They're not refusing to serve women, they're refusing to make that one product they find distasteful.
Unless I missed something, this bakery is not refusing to serve gays--they're refusing to put a specific design on a cake.

So if I order a cake that says "Dave and Rebecca forever" I am good, but if it says "bill and Jims love will never die" or maybe "to the love of Amanda and sharon"?

Ooh! I wanna order a cake labeled "Alex and Sam's wedding:2014". See if they can tell if it is for a day mens, lesbians, or straight couples cake!

It's at the baker's discretion. Why should they be obligated to provide you a service/product that they do not wish to provide? Furthermore, why not just go to another bakery?

theflatline

2014-07-08 11:39:27 AM

Couldnt they have just gotten a Cher cake?

GoldSpider

2014-07-08 11:39:31 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Your rights end where your "Open for business" sign begins.

wut?

Frank N Stein

2014-07-08 11:40:14 AM

Gaseous Anomaly: I wonder where all of the Catholic bakers are that refuse to make cakes for second weddings.

Why would a baker even know that if it's someone's second wedding?

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