desertgeek: Pre-roids, McGuire and Sosa were average players. They don't belong.
Rex_Banner: All those great diving catches that Jim Edmunds made? Andruw Jones also caught those balls. He just got there a couple steps quicker and either camped out under them or caught them on the run
Slow To Return: Makes me wonder why players even bother with steroids ... sounds like they're useless.
yakmans_dad: yakmans_dad: Arkanaut: yakmans_dad: Who was also the best fielding 2nd baseman ever. By a large margin.Gulper Eel: Who was also one of the best defensive second basemen ever.Yeah, and it took the Veterans Committee to get him in. The BBWAA doesn't care about fielding, they care about offense.Brooks Robinson batted .267 for his career and is one of a handful of players to get into the Hall on the first ballot.I just checked. The other contender for greatest fielding 3rd baseman ever also batted .267 for his career and also made it into the Hall of Fame on his first try. Interesting, yes?
machoprogrammer: He even sharpened his spikes to injure guys when he slid into bases; intentionally trying to injure coworkers is certainly not cool.
steamingpile: ladodger34: steamingpile: JusticeandIndependence: Gunny Highway: JusticeandIndependence: So?Don;t act like it isnt an issue for some people.It is. I know that. But it's stupid to cherry pick who they think did juice and who didn't and then vote for HOF. My take is that they knew players were juicing at that time and rode the wave of fun that home runs and record smashing that went with it. Now they are being very hypocritical about it.Sorry some were obvious and would never have gotten in or been a superstar without using, Clemens career would have been over 5-6 years earlier if he didn't use. McGuire and Sosa wouldn't even be mentioned without using and hitting all those HRs. Bonds would have gotten in with his pre steroid stats but most feel his ego farked up his chances then his sanctimonious denials when its obvious he was using pisses a lot of people off and rightly so.Oh and whoever said it earlier, biggio is good but not even close to a first ballot HoF player, he's average in almost every way.I can assure you, a .363 lifetime OBP is well, well above average.When only 20 guys who have played baseball have more hits than Biggio, that isn't average. If you are ranked 15 on the runs scored list, you aren't average. When only 17 guys have been on bases more often than him, that isn't average. My goodness, he hit 291 HR for a guy that was essentially a table setter.When you start getting into top 20 all time lists for things like hits, runs scored, and being on base you aren't even close to be average. You are an all time great.All of his stats are related to his longevity, except his obp and that mainly has to do with him always getting hit by pitches.He was good but the earlier guy was saying he's automatic first ballot HoFer and that's just not true. And his longevity could be suspect since one of his good friends was a known user, I don't think there is much proof but he went an awful long time at a physical position without being injured.
EyeballKid: R.E.D DAD: Hell, the guy even went an entire season without hitting into a double play.That would have required somebody else on the Astros to get on base, wouldn't it?
R.E.D DAD: Hell, the guy even went an entire season without hitting into a double play.
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