FARK.com: (7823929) If you're a vegan mother who isn't producing enough milk to breast feed, you might consider: a) altering your diet b) switching to formula or c) using other mothers' milk. Wait a minute

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		If you're a vegan mother who isn't producing enough milk to breast feed, you might consider: a) altering your diet b) switching to formula or c) using other mothers' milk. Wait a minute - trick question. Breast milk isn't vegan ( omg.yahoo.com)		92
		More: Interesting, Alicia Silverstone, Mayim Bialik, other mother, parenting styles, Bialik, video sharing, milk, The Big Bang Theory

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Pray 4 Mojo

2013-07-02 11:38:08 AM

12 votes:

If your diet is causing your inability to properly feed your baby... maybe there's another, simpler solution.

Nabb1

2013-07-02 12:02:01 PM

7 votes:

I have no interest in how an adult chooses to live and eat for themselves, but if your lifestyle prohibits you from providing your child with sufficient nourishment, that is nature's way of telling you that you are unfit as a parent.

Nana's Vibrator

2013-07-02 11:48:07 AM

7 votes:

MagicBoris:

That is not actually true. For instance, I know of a few kids who had a bovine protein allergy when they were very young (it tends to go away before the kid turns two, often earlier), and their mothers can't eat anything that has a trace of beef or milk as long as they're breastfeeding.

This - but you still have to admit it is a small percentage, and in that case it's very important that the mother pays strict attention to her diet. In the vegan case, sadly, the mother is withholding important nutrition from their children for the sake of a made up principle - on a smaller scale but not unlike belonging to a religion that won't allow you to take a sick child to a doctor for a fatal but treatable disease.

LargeCanine

2013-07-02 12:04:11 PM

6 votes:

Affluent, First World, Post-industrial, Too-Much-Time-On-Their-Hands People problem.

The My Little Pony Killer

2013-07-02 11:40:29 AM

5 votes:

legion_of_doo: How about starving your Vegan child to death to prove how Vegan you are?

She's getting there.

/your fad diet is fine when it's just you
//when you deny your child nutrition, you're just being an idiot

Highroller48

2013-07-02 12:32:34 PM

4 votes:

Vegans suffer from dual mental challenges. Firstly, they have a deluded sense of moral self-awareness, that has been heightened by peer pressure to the point where they rationalize an irraitonal belief structure in order to maintain the false self-esteem that comes with that feeling of moral superiority. Declaring themselves "vegans" makes them feel like they are somehow a mor advanced segment of society. They see those who do not follow their lifestyle as primitive and driven by instinct rather than intellect.

Secondly..and arguably CAUSED by the first problem...is that they are unable to normalize basic biological concepts with regards to the nature of omnivourous species. Their ability to think analytically is impaired by the self-imposed moral compass. A vegan is simply incapable of accurately understanding the anthropology of humans and the natural order of things because their self-imposed hyper-morality corrupts the thought process from the start. They are convinced that "intelligence" by its very nature excluded us from the food chain, and so they dismiss out of hand the biological and physiological attributes that make us omnivores in the first place.

IOW, Vegans are basically 'tarded.

tuna fingers

2013-07-02 12:12:42 PM

4 votes:

legion_of_doo: tuna fingers: MattyFridays: My daughter spent 2 weeks in the hospital after being born. Whatever the doctors said, we agreed with, because they were the best at what they do and obviously smarter than us when it came to the situation.

I do not agree with this sentiment at all. Doctors and hospitals have their own agendas that may not coincide with the patient's needs. For instance, did you try to have a natural (drug-free) birth?

We have a 1 year old, and every couple in our Bradley class that delivered in a hospital did not get the desired drug-free birth. Zero for nine.

We had a home birth to avoid that.

You know what? We were all ra ra drug free, and then the first labor was HARD. Hard on he baby, hard on my wife, to the point where it was about to go c-section because both were exhausted. When you can see it on the fetal heart monitor due to the complications, it kind of matters to you.

The drugs helped a shiat ton at that point.

Yeah, it would be nice if the babby didn't get drugged out too, but modern medicine is a good thing.

I'm not saying everyone should be 100% pro-drug for delivery, but people also shouldn't rule it out. There's a reason why fewer mothers & children die during childbirth today than in years gone by.

/second child was so fast, he came out before the drug question even came up

Here's a factoid for you. The great U S of A ranks 34th in the world regarding infant mortality rate.
Cuba does a better job with delivering babies. Very few countries dope up mom/baby like we do, and no other country has C-sections like we do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_r at e

Nana's Vibrator

2013-07-02 11:37:20 AM

4 votes:

I sort of understand the concept and the spirit of vegans, but why work around the natural process of breast feeding if you don't HAVE to? Human bodies evolved over many tens of thousands of years to do something that amazing. What these vegans are doing is unnatural and potentially harmful. And really, if you're that much of a disciplined vegan trying to live a certain way, probably the most natural and vegan thing you can do is to just let that little meat-needing sucker die.

gopher321

2013-07-02 11:27:43 AM

4 votes:

Silverstone has been rather vocal about her unique parenting style since the birth of her son, Bear Blu

*facepalm*

legion_of_doo

2013-07-02 12:04:58 PM

3 votes:

tuna fingers: MattyFridays: My daughter spent 2 weeks in the hospital after being born. Whatever the doctors said, we agreed with, because they were the best at what they do and obviously smarter than us when it came to the situation.

I do not agree with this sentiment at all. Doctors and hospitals have their own agendas that may not coincide with the patient's needs. For instance, did you try to have a natural (drug-free) birth?

We have a 1 year old, and every couple in our Bradley class that delivered in a hospital did not get the desired drug-free birth. Zero for nine.

We had a home birth to avoid that.

You know what? We were all ra ra drug free, and then the first labor was HARD. Hard on he baby, hard on my wife, to the point where it was about to go c-section because both were exhausted. When you can see it on the fetal heart monitor due to the complications, it kind of matters to you.

The drugs helped a shiat ton at that point.

Yeah, it would be nice if the babby didn't get drugged out too, but modern medicine is a good thing.

I'm not saying everyone should be 100% pro-drug for delivery, but people also shouldn't rule it out. There's a reason why fewer mothers & children die during childbirth today than in years gone by.

/second child was so fast, he came out before the drug question even came up

Mikey1969

2013-07-02 12:02:56 PM

3 votes:

I'm fine with this except...

If you aren't able to produce enough milk to breast feed your kids, maybe being vegan isn't all that "natural" or "healthy"? Think about it for awhile, people.

Luse

2013-07-02 11:54:58 AM

3 votes:

The donor milk is almost certainly not from a strict vegan. We've already established they can't produce enough even for their own young.
Face it, you are a broken specimen due to your own decisions.

Mrbogey

2013-07-02 11:50:13 AM

3 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: If your diet is causing your inability to properly feed your baby... maybe there's another, simpler solution.

Came here to say this.

It would be like me trying to find a cure for scurvy that didn't involve vitamin C.

mcmnky

2013-07-02 11:42:41 AM

3 votes:

first, any single woman can have issues breast feeding, but if issues are common in your diet-based community, maybe there's a problem with your diet.

second, if Alicia Silverstone was my mother, I'd breast feed until my mid-20s

likefunbutnot

2013-07-02 11:41:22 AM

3 votes:

One of my cousins is raising her three kids on a life-long vegan diet. The oldest is 12 and he's physically smaller than seven and eight year old kids from other relatives.

factoryconnection

2013-07-02 11:00:25 AM

3 votes:

"I care enough about my baby to breastfeed it and seek out extra milk when I can't produce, but not so much that I'll accept any from someone that might have eaten some cheese in the last decade."

Is this to make sure that the kids don't get any veterinary antibiotics or hormones? Because the proteins and fats in breastmilk are generated from broken-down food nutrients in the mom's body... there isn't any "cow" left in the milk.

I guess this makes it 100% clear that her kids are raised vegan as well. Hmmm...

YixilTesiphon

2013-07-02 04:36:20 PM

2 votes:

StaleCoffee: George Babbitt: StaleCoffee: You're the jerk... jerk: StaleCoffee: We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time

Stupid or troll? It is obvious you did not investigate this issue by looking at pier reviewed journals

So did that ship sail or what?

Carry on troll.

How did his kids attend school? Mine were required to have all their vaccinations, for their age, before the first day.

My kids were the ones with vax exemptions. You sign a piece of paper that says "We wish to exempt our children from vaccines" and then you don't hear about it again unless a new nurse is hired and loses the paperwork.

You're ignorant and you're farking up the world for the rest of our children.

dj_spanmaster

2013-07-02 01:48:38 PM

2 votes:

brap: Is this just for women with children.

How do they feel about adult homemade mozzarella celebrity cheese fetishists? I'm asking for a friend.

I've had human milk mozzarella. It's delicious.

Abe Vigoda's Ghost

2013-07-02 12:50:30 PM

2 votes:

Geesh Fark, no pictures yet?

Brittabot

2013-07-02 12:35:33 PM

2 votes:

I think veganism is a bit extreme but don't take any real issue with adults who choose to follow a vegan diet.

But you CANNOT do that shiat to your kids! Children cannot thrive on a vegan diet. Vegetarian? Probably ok, but not vegan. They simply will not get the nutrients they need to develop properly physically or mentally.

All it says to me when people insist their children follow a vegan diet is that they're fine with harming their own kids as long as no animal is harmed.

The whole breast milk sharing thing from TFA is nothing new, people have been doing stuff like that for years. That being said, if the issue is that vegan moms are unable to produce enough milk for their OWN babies, where exactly do they think this doner milk is going to come from if the only acceptable doners are other vegan moms?

Sounds like someone didn't think their cunning plan all the way through.

/If your ideology is harming your children, it's probably time to reevaluate some things.
//same goes for anti-vaccers who are mindlessly farking with herd immunity and harming OTHER people's children too.
///don't even get me started on the "prayers instead of medicine" crowd.

IamPatSajak

2013-07-02 12:01:46 PM

2 votes:

Any time an article mentions Miam Bialik's parenting it should also mention that her marriage collapsed. There is no reason why you should have a 4yr old in bed every night nursing when you have a perfectly fine husband willing to do the same.

illannoyin

2013-07-02 11:58:10 AM

2 votes:

Being vegan is so natural and healthy it interferes with your body's natural healthy processes.

Also...

"Silverstone has been rather vocal about her unique parenting style"

I see my SOP regarding religious zealots applies here. As soon as they mention their religion just turn and walk away.

Lexx

2013-07-02 11:47:06 AM

2 votes:

likefunbutnot: One of my cousins is raising her three kids on a life-long vegan diet. The oldest is 12 and he's physically smaller than seven and eight year old kids from other relatives.

When he's older he might realize that his short stature, caused by his diet, has radically reduced his opportunities for procreation, and if he gets the chance to sire offspring, won't foist that stupidity upon his heirs. Or he'll just not breed, and end the line of stupidity his mother begat.

theorellior

2013-07-02 11:46:35 AM

2 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: Had an acquaintance many moons ago that was a "Raw Foodist"... whatever the fark that is.

I usually substitute "dumbfark".

PsyLord

2013-07-02 11:44:30 AM

2 votes:

FTA: The idea, she explained, stemmed from an email she received from a friend and new mom, who said she simply wasn't producing enough milk and couldn't trust that those offering donor milk shared the strict vegan diet.

How would her site screen for those donating milk to be strict vegans?

MagicBoris

2013-07-02 11:42:10 AM

2 votes:

factoryconnection: "I care enough about my baby to breastfeed it and seek out extra milk when I can't produce, but not so much that I'll accept any from someone that might have eaten some cheese in the last decade."

Is this to make sure that the kids don't get any veterinary antibiotics or hormones? Because the proteins and fats in breastmilk are generated from broken-down food nutrients in the mom's body... there isn't any "cow" left in the milk.

I guess this makes it 100% clear that her kids are raised vegan as well. Hmmm...

That is not actually true. For instance, I know of a few kids who had a bovine protein allergy when they were very young (it tends to go away before the kid turns two, often earlier), and their mothers can't eat anything that has a trace of beef or milk as long as they're breastfeeding.

nocturnal001

2013-07-02 11:39:45 AM

2 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: Bathia_Mapes: Just for the record, vegans do not object to breastfeeding.

Blatent hipocracy.

Ehh, not sure about that one.

Isn't the whole Vegan thing about not imposing harm to other animals? Breastfeeding your own baby is voluntary, milking a cow isn't really voluntary.

My bigger question is how many Vegans have cats or dogs? Do they feed them soyfood?

legion_of_doo

2013-07-02 11:37:02 AM

2 votes:

How about starving your Vegan child to death to prove how Vegan you are?

Diogenes

2013-07-02 10:21:59 AM

2 votes:

Ten months later, she famously posted a video sharing how she straight from her own mouth with food she pre-chewed, a practice known as premastication.

Bird in brain in deed.

I wonder if you can suck on someone else's boobs and then deposit the milk in your kid's mouth?

brap

2013-07-02 10:17:21 AM

2 votes:

Is this just for women with children.

How do they feel about adult homemade mozzarella celebrity cheese fetishists? I'm asking for a friend.

Pocket Ninja

2013-07-02 10:13:01 AM

2 votes:

Using another woman's breast milk to feed your baby? This has never been done in the history of ever. We're breaking new ground here, people.

Smelly Pirate Hooker

2013-07-02 07:32:49 PM

1 vote:

noitsnot:

So, I understand what Mr./Ms. Hooker apparently psychically read out of your brain, but I still don't understand what point you are trying to make about Medicare specifically.

That Medicare (and Medicaid too) costs so much because Americans are in bad shape. Not that hard to figure out. Not sure why it popped up in a breastfeeding thread, but it's more interesting than what usually happens in a breastfeeding thread, so I went with it.

And that's MISS Smelly Pirate Hooker to you.

Smelly Pirate Hooker

2013-07-02 06:36:33 PM

1 vote:

noitsnot: hardinparamedic:

noitsnot: Well, good luck trying to get medical costs that stem from poor choices eliminated from coverage. Keep us up to speed on how that goes.

I equally wish you luck with your crippling lack of adult reading comprehension. There is no need to suffer in silence, and many community colleges offer free adult remedial reading classes. I'd personally start with learning the definition of the word "prevent", and going from there.

Well, spell out what your beef against medicare is then, because I can't understand what you mean.

He means most people in the hospital are there because of poor choices, like obesity, smoking and/or driving a car/motorcycle without seat belts/helmets.

And that America is not good about dealing with death. We keep people alive for months (using technologies that cause all kinds of additional health issues, like ventilators) instead of acknowledging that there is no more that can be done for them and just let them go in peace.

Just today I read a story about long-term care insurance. So many people have it and the costs of long-term care are so gigantic, insurance companies are now jacking up premiums astronomically (like 80%) on existing customers or telling them to accept less coverage in exchange for slightly less astronomical increases (45%).

Sean M

2013-07-02 05:01:07 PM

1 vote:

Gee... if your body isn't able to produce enough breast milk, it's probably starved for nutrients. I wonder which food groups a vegan diet could possibly be ignoring... hmm....

/was raised vegetarian
//had to convert to an animal meat diet after getting very sick
///it was a VEGAN dietician who had me go on the meat diet.
////meat rocks! Tastes awesome. Good for the body too... in moderation, of course, as everything in life.

hardinparamedic

2013-07-02 04:33:53 PM

1 vote:

StaleCoffee: My kids were the ones with vax exemptions. You sign a piece of paper that says "We wish to exempt our children from vaccines" and then you don't hear about it again unless a new nurse is hired and loses the paperwork.

The only exemption should be that your kids have an allergy to the vaccine or vaccine component, or have a legitimate medical reason not to be vaccinated.

Your original argument was based on their "immune system time to develop", ignoring the fact that the reason vaccinations are done at that age are so that children do not die of the diseases that target them at that age. Or the fact that their immune system didn't need that time to develop, period.

hardinparamedic

2013-07-02 04:29:43 PM

1 vote:

noitsnot: That's nothing to do with Medicare. Regular insurance covers it, so Medicare does too. We all pay for it via higher insurance premiums as well as higher taxes.

Around 300 Billion Dollars says it has a lot to do with medicare. The fact that regular insurance "covers" it is irrelevant. The relevant fact is that it's very preventable. Unfortunately, right-wing shills for tobacco companies like to tout "personal freedoms" with none of the responsibility it entails.

George Babbitt

2013-07-02 04:16:04 PM

1 vote:

StaleCoffee: You're the jerk... jerk: StaleCoffee: We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time

Stupid or troll? It is obvious you did not investigate this issue by looking at pier reviewed journals

So did that ship sail or what?

Carry on troll.

How did his kids attend school? Mine were required to have all their vaccinations, for their age, before the first day.

noitsnot

2013-07-02 04:08:26 PM

1 vote:

Pray 4 Mojo: 1. Put snakes on plane: noitsnot: 1. Put snakes on plane: Pray 4 Mojo: s it okay for vegans to eat animals that died of natural causes?

Would you eat a human leg you found in a dumpster? If you think that's okay, sure go for it.

OMG! Wow! Yes, making use of meat that would otherwise go to waste - same as cannibalism!

Please, continue...

/such awesome kookdom

So, you wouldn't kill and eat a human, and also wouldn't eat one you just found dead. I wouldn't kill and eat another animal, or eat one I just found dead. How remarkable!

That's cause humans taste gross... and killing and eating them is illegal.

/Yeah yeah... "Meat is murder too!"
//You're what 23...24?

Invoking cannibalism is just a cheesy sensationalist gambit. The idea is that for a vegan, eating fried chicken is just as abhorrent as it would be for you to eat a baby. Which I find very doubtful. Sure, I'm not a vegan, so I can't claim to know their feelings - but Occam's Razor tells me it's just hyperbole, especially since I doubt he knows what it feels like to be a cannibal.

Certainly, it is bad to harm other living things (or at least I feel that way). However, there is a continuum at work here. It's not just "people and animals = evil to harm, all else = ok to harm". I make the ordering as follows: Human*, mammal, bird, fish, insect, tree**, plant, (***).

* Many humans I can't stand, so this is iffy
** I like trees better than bugs, so this is also iffy
*** Micro-organisms just seem like machines, I can't really get worked up about them (hence omitted)

To cultivate vegetables and grains, so that vegetarian and vegan lifestyles can be led - this has inflicted tremendous harm on the animal kingdom (and continues to do so). You can't have all that farming, without booting out all the animals that used to live there, and clear-cutting their habitat so you can have farm fields.

hardinparamedic

2013-07-02 02:56:18 PM

1 vote:

shiate: [i44.tinypic.com image 600x798]

i'm the first?

should be SFW, it was on the cover of time magazine.

Personally, I find breast feeding to be beautiful. There's a reason we refer to it as mother's medicine in the NI-

WHAT THE fark? THAT KID IS LIKE 6. WHAT THE farkING HELL, MAN.

Firethorn

2013-07-02 02:33:44 PM

1 vote:

The My Little Pony Killer: You bet your butt I'll be working closely with her vet and with people who have successfully raised animals on that diet if I do take her that route.

The trick is to realize that in the animal kingdom muscle is rated low on the desirability scale; the organs are considered much more valuable to wild animals; they're what they'll eat first, given the option.

Which, assuming you can find a source, normally makes organs pretty cheap.

tuna fingers: Here's a factoid for you. The great U S of A ranks 34th in the world regarding infant mortality rate.
Cuba does a better job with delivering babies.

As others have noted, we manage to get more babies to the 'live birth' phase, which we're more liberal with granting even for babies that are obviously not going to make it, meaning we lose more that way.

Very few countries dope up mom/baby like we do, and no other country has C-sections like we do.

Yeah, It's not like Switzerland(32.4), Hungary(32.5), and Portugal(33) match the USA(32.3). Korea(35.1), Italy(38.4), Mexico(42), Turkey(42.7), China(46.2), and Brazil(47.4) have insignificant numbers of C-Sections.

Magorn: // Attention Vegan Women: producing breat milk is one of the basic functions of a female human body. when a woman's body stops producing enough of it, it is a clear sign something is VERY VERY wrong. Usually only happens when the woman is STARVING to death.

This. Their bodies are actually optimized to make sure the kid's fed even at the expense of their own. If they can't produce enough milk, especially for a 2nd child*, there's something seriously wrong.

*1st is often the 'throw-away', I'll admit

gajillion

2013-07-02 02:17:20 PM

1 vote:

nocturnal001: Breastfeeding your own baby is voluntary, milking a cow isn't really voluntary.

I worked a dairy farm throughout my high school years. Not milking a dairy cow is not just painful and stressful for them, it's cruel and can severely hurt, if not kill them. Most cows love being milked. They walk, voluntarily, into the dairy barn twice a day. The only ones that don't seem to enjoy it are the new mothers with their first calves, whose udders swell painfully tight. The calf can't get enough of the milk out or gets kicked in the face if it tries, so you have to be patient. If you don't the utter can literally destroy itself. Fark those ignorant vegan hypocrites. If they actually had any real world experience instead of whinging from their first-world ivory towers, they'd change their minds pretty quickly.

meat0918

2013-07-02 01:52:37 PM

1 vote:

Pray 4 Mojo: 1. Put snakes on plane: Pray 4 Mojo: s it okay for vegans to eat animals that died of natural causes?

Would you eat a human leg you found in a dumpster? If you think that's okay, sure go for it.

No... I wouldn't eat a cow leg I found in the dumpster either. Not really the same thing.

If I still had my goats that we used to eat weeds... and I walked out on morning and watch one keel over and die... I wouldn't just throw it away... and if it died of natural causes... I don't get the vegan objection.

/Vegans are wasteful
//And farking annoying

I assume you would have a vet make sure it was natural causes before dining? I could understand butchering it up in hopes you could eat it, but damn, I'd have to make 100% sure of how it died.

jonny_q

2013-07-02 01:39:38 PM

1 vote:

1. We've completely eliminated poverty and hunger when people have this to biatch about.
2. Don't people grow out of this shiat by the time they graduate college at the very latest? I mean people dick around with hippie bullshiat until junior year or so, but they usually get over it.

1. Put snakes on plane

2013-07-02 01:32:26 PM

1 vote:

meat0918: Vegan is not a natural state of affairs for human beings, and is a lifestyle made possible only by modern means.

"Natural". A generally meaningless word, and a fallacy pretty much any time you make it into an argument. And using modern means or not, it is possible. So what?

dickfreckle

2013-07-02 01:28:35 PM

1 vote:

Pray 4 Mojo: nocturnal001: Smeggy Smurf: Bathia_Mapes: Just for the record, vegans do not object to breastfeeding.

Blatent hipocracy.

Ehh, not sure about that one.

Isn't the whole Vegan thing about not imposing harm to other animals? Breastfeeding your own baby is voluntary, milking a cow isn't really voluntary.

My bigger question is how many Vegans have cats or dogs? Do they feed them soyfood?

Had an acquaintance many moons ago that was a "Raw Foodist"... whatever the fark that is. He had two Dobermans that he fed oranges and avocados and shiat. Asshole. The dogs were always way too skinny and pretty listless.

/We snuck them cans of Alpo or Pedigree at every opportunity.

I hate these people. Want to be a vegan when you can make informed choices for yourself? Great! Do what you want. But the pets? Most likely indoor pets that won't have the opportunity to hunt? That's where I draw the line. Your pets were designed over X number of years to eat meat. They don't think about it the way some humans do. IT'S JUST WHAT THEY DO. Denying this is in my mind a form of animal cruelty.

/my little pooch is roughly 25lbs. but in one day he'd eat his weight in meat if I gave it to him
//always tosses some of whatever protein I'm cooking...dude needs meat

I am Mayhem

2013-07-02 01:25:51 PM

1 vote:

factoryconnection: tuna fingers: Here's a factoid for you. The great U S of A ranks 34th in the world regarding infant mortality rate.
Cuba does a better job with delivering babies. Very few countries dope up mom/baby like we do, and no other country has C-sections like we do.

Our hospitals are exceedingly poor at supporting women in labor without resorting to drugs. They push the "lie on the bed on your back" position, the MOST PAINFUL position possible and least supportive for the baby coming out. They impose artificial time tables. They create nightmare-scenario warnings about "baby is too big based on the ultrasound" that has a quite-large error band. They're slaves to due dates, even though they're educated guesses. They impose needless restrictions on food and drink, so that the mother becomes completely exhausted just due to the tiny chance that she's rushed into surgery, while unconscious, and vomits but noone in the surgical suite notices and she aspirates. They share nothing about body positioning or sacral pressure to relieve back labor, to adjust baby's position, or to help labor progress. None of this is hippy-dippy, spirit-crystal nonsense... it mostly comes down to biomechanics.

They do push pitocin, which raises the need for an epidural, which raises the need for surgery. That's what they do, because their specialties are crisis management, and unfortunately they end up creating crises. We pay a lot more for all these interventions and they do provide worse outcomes.

My OB/GYN refused to discuss inducing until I was at least one week overdue despite the fact we knew I was carrying an at least 9 lb baby, in his words "Plenty of women can deliver large babies, lets let nature take its course". Once I FINALLY went into labor (4 days post-due), the hospital, nurses and doctor did all they could to avoid surgery, pushing fluids and walking (though honestly I didn't want to walk), sitting on a ball, ect even though I had a mild fever and my wonderful son, who had previously been head down had moved to being sorta...off center, before finally laying out my options of continuing with a labor that was clearly going nowhere or c-section. They left the choice completely up to me. I elected to get him the hell out.

A hundred years ago I would have been one of those women who died in childbirth. Yaaaay modern medicine!

/10 lbs 4 oz
//14 inch round head
///husband is happy it was was a c-section

That said, agreed with all who said if being vegan is keeping you from naturally producing something your body should, maybe you need to reevaluate.

Pray 4 Mojo

2013-07-02 01:25:45 PM

1 vote:

PsiChick: Nana's Vibrator: I sort of understand the concept and the spirit of vegans, but why work around the natural process of breast feeding if you don't HAVE to? Human bodies evolved over many tens of thousands of years to do something that amazing. What these vegans are doing is unnatural and potentially harmful. And really, if you're that much of a disciplined vegan trying to live a certain way, probably the most natural and vegan thing you can do is to just let that little meat-needing sucker die.

Or you could RTFA and find out that vegans are a-ok with breastfeeding, since the mother is capable of consenting to give her milk to her child.

Is it okay for vegans to eat animals that died of natural causes?

WeenerGord

2013-07-02 01:08:11 PM

1 vote:

*cough*

Shut up and eat a farkin cheese burger already before you kill your poor baby, you stupid self important biatch.

Banned on the Run

2013-07-02 01:05:20 PM

1 vote:

MelGoesOnTour: stuffy: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 190x265]
Sorry I prefer my Breast milk strait from the tap.

Holy shiat! Who is she and where can I get more?!

Denise Milani.
You must be new to the internet.

I could go on, but I'm nearing violation of the "wall of boobs" rule.
I'll just leave you with this NSFW one of her (thong)

ChuckRoddy

2013-07-02 01:04:15 PM

1 vote:

Every time I hear that someone claims to be healthy on a vegan diet, I also remember that some people claim they can live without eating.

tuna fingers

2013-07-02 12:44:05 PM

1 vote:

Wangiss: MattyFridays: My daughter spent 2 weeks in the hospital after being born. Whatever the doctors said, we agreed with, because they were the best at what they do and obviously smarter than us when it came to the situation.

I could not fathom what kind of garbage these docs have to go through with crunchy granola parents who want to do "natural" things with their kid. UGH.

They often have their babies at home with the assistance of crunchy-granola doulas.

Midwife plus doula.
And it was scary yet wonderful.

tuna fingers

2013-07-02 12:35:46 PM

1 vote:

This pit-epi cycle is exactly why we went with a midwife.

ciberido

2013-07-02 12:33:33 PM

1 vote:

namegoeshere: There have been breast milk banks for a long time now. Some medically fragile babies can not tolerate formula, and must drink breast milk. If Mom can't produce enough, they're screwed.

The only difference here is the whole vegan thing.

I've got it. Use ninjas. I mean, I have on good authority that ninjas are mammals, so surely ninja breast milk would do the trick.

trappedspirit

2013-07-02 12:24:08 PM

1 vote:

Pray 4 Mojo: If your diet is causing your inability to properly feed your baby... maybe there's another, simpler solution.

Ditch the baby

factoryconnection

2013-07-02 12:23:26 PM

1 vote:

tuna fingers: Here's a factoid for you. The great U S of A ranks 34th in the world regarding infant mortality rate.
Cuba does a better job with delivering babies. Very few countries dope up mom/baby like we do, and no other country has C-sections like we do.

Our hospitals are exceedingly poor at supporting women in labor without resorting to drugs. They push the "lie on the bed on your back" position, the MOST PAINFUL position possible and least supportive for the baby coming out. They impose artificial time tables. They create nightmare-scenario warnings about "baby is too big based on the ultrasound" that has a quite-large error band. They're slaves to due dates, even though they're educated guesses. They impose needless restrictions on food and drink, so that the mother becomes completely exhausted just due to the tiny chance that she's rushed into surgery, while unconscious, and vomits but noone in the surgical suite notices and she aspirates. They share nothing about body positioning or sacral pressure to relieve back labor, to adjust baby's position, or to help labor progress. None of this is hippy-dippy, spirit-crystal nonsense... it mostly comes down to biomechanics.

They do push pitocin, which raises the need for an epidural, which raises the need for surgery. That's what they do, because their specialties are crisis management, and unfortunately they end up creating crises. We pay a lot more for all these interventions and they do provide worse outcomes.

ChipNASA

2013-07-02 12:22:51 PM

1 vote:

Greg : "Oh, you can milk just about anything with nipples."

Jack : Oh?....I have nipples, Greg, ... can you milk me?

farknozzle

2013-07-02 12:21:03 PM

1 vote:

tuna fingers: legion_of_doo: tuna fingers: MattyFridays: My daughter spent 2 weeks in the hospital after being born. Whatever the doctors said, we agreed with, because they were the best at what they do and obviously smarter than us when it came to the situation.

I do not agree with this sentiment at all. Doctors and hospitals have their own agendas that may not coincide with the patient's needs. For instance, did you try to have a natural (drug-free) birth?

We have a 1 year old, and every couple in our Bradley class that delivered in a hospital did not get the desired drug-free birth. Zero for nine.

We had a home birth to avoid that.

You know what? We were all ra ra drug free, and then the first labor was HARD. Hard on he baby, hard on my wife, to the point where it was about to go c-section because both were exhausted. When you can see it on the fetal heart monitor due to the complications, it kind of matters to you.

The drugs helped a shiat ton at that point.

Yeah, it would be nice if the babby didn't get drugged out too, but modern medicine is a good thing.

I'm not saying everyone should be 100% pro-drug for delivery, but people also shouldn't rule it out. There's a reason why fewer mothers & children die during childbirth today than in years gone by.

/second child was so fast, he came out before the drug question even came up

Here's a factoid for you. The great U S of A ranks 34th in the world regarding infant mortality rate.
Cuba does a better job with delivering babies. Very few countries dope up mom/baby like we do, and no other country has C-sections like we do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_r at e

How many children born at 24 weeks survive in Cuba?

IRQ12

2013-07-02 12:20:35 PM

1 vote:

Am I reading this right: They're vegan because that's supposedly what we are supposed to be by nature or whatever but in being vegan they can't produce enough milk to keep their babies alive?

tiamet4

2013-07-02 12:16:14 PM

1 vote:

Oldiron_79: Pocket Ninja: Using another woman's breast milk to feed your baby? This has never been done in the history of ever. We're breaking new ground here, people.

Guess people never heard of nursemaids back before formula was invented.

True, but typically these were women whose primary job was to feed babies and whom the parents usually met and saw on a regular basis. Having some random person send body fluids in the mail to give to an infant seems questionable at best.

space1999

2013-07-02 12:15:35 PM

1 vote:

If you're not producing enough breast milk, then there's something wrong with your diet. If anything, this is an argument not to go vegan.

mama2tnt

2013-07-02 12:15:24 PM

1 vote:

Luse: The donor milk is almost certainly not from a strict vegan. We've already established they can't produce enough even for their own young.
Face it, you are a broken specimen due to your own decisions.

a la the Shakers.

namegoeshere

2013-07-02 12:15:13 PM

1 vote:

There have been breast milk banks for a long time now. Some medically fragile babies can not tolerate formula, and must drink breast milk. If Mom can't produce enough, they're screwed.

The only difference here is the whole vegan thing. And the fact that (I'm not 100% sure on this one, but I believe) babies who can drink formula but whose parents choose not to feed it to them would not have access to the limited supply of donated breast milk in the established breast milk bank. Although I'm sure there are women who will sell their milk to whomever will pay.

the money is in the banana stand

2013-07-02 12:13:30 PM

1 vote:

legion_of_doo: the money is in the banana stand: YixilTesiphon: legion_of_doo: You've got Vegans, immunization conspiracists, all sorts of highly educated wackos here.

We're expecting in November and the thing I am most worried about is immunization nutters transmitting disease to my child. SCIENCE IS REAL. Damn.
Luckily I don't think there are too many of those in Pennsylvania, but still.

Can't you not attend school without immunization records? Isn't that part of the enrollment process?

You can get exemptions in California. I think that applies to both public & private schools now... farking asshole helicopter conspiracy nutters.

/yay, junk science!
/looks like Pennsylvania also has religious/ethical exemptions from vaccination

Wow, there should be no exemptions.

FunkOut

2013-07-02 12:10:51 PM

1 vote:

The My Little Pony Killer: Mrbogey: The My Little Pony Killer: Wow, I was thinking of switching my cat over to raw food for the nutrition, but something more along the lines of meats, not the ingredients for my salad.

If you feed your cats raw meat, make sure you include taurine, vitamin E, and B vitamins supplements. Most muscle meat doesn't have enough of those in it to give them full nutrition.

You bet your butt I'll be working closely with her vet and with people who have successfully raised animals on that diet if I do take her that route.

A cat's natural diet involves chomping down the entire small critter. Consuming livers and bones are important to their health. Growing up on a farm, you frequently encountered mouse remains consistenting of nothing but heads and gall bladders. In the old days in England, many folks bought whole kippers and plopped them down for cats to feast upon.

Nabb1

2013-07-02 12:06:11 PM

1 vote:

Mikey1969: I'm fine with this except...

If you aren't able to produce enough milk to breast feed your kids, maybe being vegan isn't all that "natural" or "healthy"? Think about it for awhile, people.

Even many non-vegan mothers have milk-production issues, so it's not alway diet. But if your lifestyle leaves you unable to supplement low milk supply with formula, then you are making poor choices for your child.

The My Little Pony Killer

2013-07-02 12:04:19 PM

1 vote:

Mrbogey: The My Little Pony Killer: Wow, I was thinking of switching my cat over to raw food for the nutrition, but something more along the lines of meats, not the ingredients for my salad.

If you feed your cats raw meat, make sure you include taurine, vitamin E, and B vitamins supplements. Most muscle meat doesn't have enough of those in it to give them full nutrition.

You bet your butt I'll be working closely with her vet and with people who have successfully raised animals on that diet if I do take her that route.

Pray 4 Mojo

2013-07-02 12:03:53 PM

1 vote:

YixilTesiphon: Had an acquaintance many moons ago that was a "Raw Foodist"... whatever the fark that is. He had two Dobermans that he fed oranges and avocados and shiat. Asshole. The dogs were always way too skinny and pretty listless.

/We snuck them cans of Alpo or Pedigree at every opportunity.

Beef isn't raw food?

Don't ask me... I mean... yes... I know raw beef is raw food... but that's not what this dumbfark fed his dogs. I don't know the rules of "Raw Foodism"... and frankly... I don't care to learn.

CatfoodSpork

2013-07-02 11:58:47 AM

1 vote:

nocturnal001:
My bigger question is how many Vegans have cats or dogs? Do they feed them soyfood?

I knew some college kids that tried to raise a vegan cat. Yeah, it died before we could convince them that cats are CARNIVORES.

stratagos

2013-07-02 11:57:18 AM

1 vote:

Smeggy Smurf: Bathia_Mapes: Just for the record, vegans do not object to breastfeeding.

Blatent hipocracy.

Breasts have nothing to do with hips

The My Little Pony Killer

2013-07-02 11:57:12 AM

1 vote:

Wow, I was thinking of switching my cat over to raw food for the nutrition, but something more along the lines of meats, not the ingredients for my salad.

hasty ambush

2013-07-02 11:54:42 AM

1 vote:

Praise the vegans for leaving more real food for real people.

mama2tnt

2013-07-02 11:53:24 AM

1 vote:

LordBeavis: theorellior: gopher321: Silverstone has been rather vocal about her unique parenting style since the birth of her son, Bear Blu

I have an acquaintance who named her son "Bear". I don't quite get the logic, but whatevs. So far I've resisted the urge to say things like, "Feeling cranky and fussy? Better drink my own piss!"

The name "Bear" is fine and dandy in the ghey community. Let's hope the kid doesn't turn out to be a twink, though, or it could get confusing.

A.W.
/Gave my kids names AND instructions: "You don't like your name? That's the worst thing I've ever done to you? Well, first of all, that makes me the greatest mother the planet has ever known. Second, the minute you turn 18 you can change it, so go ahead. It's just a name"

Millennium

2013-07-02 11:53:20 AM

1 vote:

YixilTesiphon: Pray 4 Mojo: nocturnal001: Smeggy Smurf: Bathia_Mapes: Just for the record, vegans do not object to breastfeeding.

Blatent hipocracy.

Ehh, not sure about that one.

Isn't the whole Vegan thing about not imposing harm to other animals? Breastfeeding your own baby is voluntary, milking a cow isn't really voluntary.

My bigger question is how many Vegans have cats or dogs? Do they feed them soyfood?

Had an acquaintance many moons ago that was a "Raw Foodist"... whatever the fark that is. He had two Dobermans that he fed oranges and avocados and shiat. Asshole. The dogs were always way too skinny and pretty listless.

/We snuck them cans of Alpo or Pedigree at every opportunity.

Beef isn't raw food?

Raw beef is raw food, but it doesn't play well with the human digestive and immune systems. Trying to apply that to dogs is just plain psychotic, though: canines are well-adapted for eating raw meat.

Valiente

2013-07-02 11:50:24 AM

1 vote:

gopher321: Silverstone has been rather vocal about her unique parenting style since the birth of her son, Bear Blu

*facepalm*

Bears, "blu" or not, are hardly vegans.

Cognitive dissonance, biatch, do you perceive it?

Lexx

2013-07-02 11:50:02 AM

1 vote:

Nana's Vibrator: MagicBoris:

That is not actually true. For instance, I know of a few kids who had a bovine protein allergy when they were very young (it tends to go away before the kid turns two, often earlier), and their mothers can't eat anything that has a trace of beef or milk as long as they're breastfeeding.

This - but you still have to admit it is a small percentage, and in that case it's very important that the mother pays strict attention to her diet. In the vegan case, sadly, the mother is withholding important nutrition from their children for the sake of a made up principle - on a smaller scale but not unlike belonging to a religion that won't allow you to take a sick child to a doctor for a fatal but treatable disease.

THIS, bolded for emphasis. What you're doing is harming your child's health, for your own self reasons.

stuffy

2013-07-02 11:48:27 AM

1 vote:

Sorry I prefer my Breast milk strait from the tap.

ChipNASA

2013-07-02 11:48:05 AM

1 vote:

fanbladesaresharp

2013-07-02 11:47:51 AM

1 vote:

mcmnky: first, any single woman can have issues breast feeding, but if issues are common in your diet-based community, maybe there's a problem with your diet.

second, if Alicia Silverstone was my mother, I'd breast feed until my mid-20s

Would you also be doing her from behind on weekends and holidays too?

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom

2013-07-02 11:44:30 AM

1 vote:

Can you imagine how horrible it would be to have a conversation with this woman?

Pray 4 Mojo

2013-07-02 11:44:19 AM

1 vote:

nocturnal001: Smeggy Smurf: Bathia_Mapes: Just for the record, vegans do not object to breastfeeding.

Blatent hipocracy.

Ehh, not sure about that one.

Isn't the whole Vegan thing about not imposing harm to other animals? Breastfeeding your own baby is voluntary, milking a cow isn't really voluntary.

My bigger question is how many Vegans have cats or dogs? Do they feed them soyfood?

Had an acquaintance many moons ago that was a "Raw Foodist"... whatever the fark that is. He had two Dobermans that he fed oranges and avocados and shiat. Asshole. The dogs were always way too skinny and pretty listless.

/We snuck them cans of Alpo or Pedigree at every opportunity.

legion_of_doo

2013-07-02 11:43:22 AM

1 vote:

nocturnal001: My bigger question is how many Vegans have cats or dogs? Do they feed them soyfood?

There's a Vegan pet movement made up of various animal torturers out there.

/it's okay to torture animals if they are our own pets!

jshine

2013-07-02 11:42:04 AM

1 vote:

borg: It's vegan if it's your own being used to feed your child(ren).

How so? Milk is obviously an animal product. This just happens to be milk from a species of large, hairless ape rather than from a cow.

theorellior

2013-07-02 11:41:55 AM

1 vote:

gopher321: Silverstone has been rather vocal about her unique parenting style since the birth of her son, Bear Blu

I have an acquaintance who named her son "Bear". I don't quite get the logic, but whatevs. So far I've resisted the urge to say things like, "Feeling cranky and fussy? Better drink my own piss!"

Millennium

2013-07-02 11:40:20 AM

1 vote:

Wet-nursing is an ancient tradition, and it has generally been considered highly respectable. Then again, it has also generally been considered akin to a professional arrangement, and that doesn't really sound like what she's looking for.

WhippingBoy

2013-07-02 11:38:58 AM

1 vote:

dragonchild: WhippingBoy: Aren't cows "someone else's mother"?

Depends. Are we talking about your mom?

Aren't we always?

LewDux

2013-07-02 11:36:16 AM

1 vote:

Smeggy Smurf

2013-07-02 11:33:24 AM

1 vote:

Bathia_Mapes: Just for the record, vegans do not object to breastfeeding.

Blatent hipocracy.

WhippingBoy

2013-07-02 11:32:52 AM

1 vote:

Aren't cows "someone else's mother"?

I_Am_Weasel

2013-07-02 11:31:12 AM

1 vote:

gopher321: Silverstone has been rather vocal about her unique parenting style since the birth of her son, Bear Blu

*facepalm*

Scoff all you want, but he's already on his way to being a spokesperson.

LordZorch

2013-07-02 11:04:15 AM

1 vote:

Perhaps they might realize that being vegan is mainly just being stupid for its own sake, and then go have a bacon cheeseburger...

WelldeadLink

2013-07-02 11:01:29 AM

1 vote:

vpb

2013-07-02 10:45:34 AM

1 vote:

Bathia_Mapes: Just for the record, vegans do not object to breastfeeding.

That's how they get their calcium.

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