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(Yahoo)   US to drop to #2 in military spending by 2021 according to study, losing its top place to...Asia? An entire continent? The largest most populous continent? Quick, better call congress and tell them to buy a couple more aircraft carriers   ( news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, arms trade, combat aircraft, IHS Jane, Indian Air Force  
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2604 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jun 2013 at 8:12 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2013-06-25 08:56:24 AM  
2 votes:

hasty ambush: Yet no mention is made of that by "progressives" I wonder why?

Because gutting education is one of the dumbest f*cking things a society can do, and gutting Medicare and Social Security would destroy the economy as millions of old people are suddenly left floundering.

Having a defense budget many times that of he nearest nation is idiotic, especially given the network of alliances and economic ties we have with so many nations.

It's like buying a tenth gun to protect your family while cutting the food budget to pay for it.
2013-06-25 11:38:09 AM  
1 vote:

hasty ambush: jayphat: I like how you lump the EMLS in the R&D of the Ford when it's already been installed in the GHWB. So, lets pull that number out, mmmkay? Lets just say that I don't agree with the 65K ton carrier idea. As does the rest of the Navy. Sorry.

Not the rest of the Navy just the Carrie /aviation types.  The Submariners would just as well see carrier go away all together.  And I am sure the surface warfare types would  be too upset.
 Time to look at what we can afford and will give us most bang for our buck not what we would like to have. Given an $16 trillion national debt an a shrinking defense budget the Ford is an extravagance.  More so than the F-35.  the F-35 replaces aging/wore out aircraft, some no longer in production and a UAV replacement won't be along soon enough. No similar such justification can be found for the Ford.

The F35 tries to be an all in one replacement for something that doesn't need replaced. There is zero reason to just abandon the F22 program. There is zero reason to replace most of the Marine Corps and Navy fighters with something high and mighty that is ballooning out of control. And if you want to talk about a $16 trillion debt, lets talk about the large drivers of that that everyone throws hissy fits when you even mention fixing their long term problems. Entitlement reform(not elimination) would be my first start, as there is so much redundancy in these programs it's not even laughable.
2013-06-25 11:07:02 AM  
1 vote:

Meatsim1: People who criticize military spending often make the mistake in thinking that money spent on the military is for the military, often its just a back door stimulus to keep select industry and voters employed.  You think the F-35 has to be built in 47 states and Puerto Rico?


/Place this spending under social welfare
//Push airplane into ocean
///Keep people employed, make the anti defense spending crowd happy

Exactly. Because if you call it "Defense", then it's Patriotism and TROOPS! and Eagles and Security and What Not. If you put those same people to work building highways and rail systems and other infrastructure projects that would allow for the creation of more capital benefiting the economy and entire society, well, that's Socialism and we mustn't have that.
2013-06-25 10:31:01 AM  
1 vote:

mutterfark: EViLTeW: Great, now all those Asian countries that all get along so well are going to turn their continent of sunshine and rainbows and point all their weapons at the same target.

//Or they'll take all their hard-earned military spending and kill each other with it, leaving the US to cut military spending now that half of Asia is missing.

[borkadventures.files.wordpress.com image 649x500]

China's 20201 high speed rail?

I would not put it past them to put a rail train near an active volcano as a tourist attraction.
2013-06-25 10:26:03 AM  
1 vote:

hasty ambush: jayphat: hasty ambush: FullMetalPanda: You know what the US needs?  Flying Carriers.  Replace the entire fleet with flying carriers.  Why limit yourself to the oceans of the world?

Realistically we don't need the Gerald Ford class. Too expensive and no other country is going to be building anything better than the Nimitz Class. We could continue to build new Nimitz carriers at a rate to replace old ones as they are retired or even go with a cheaper 65,000 ton which would still outclass everything out there and we could have more of them. Carrier Air Wings have gotten smaller with the advent of precision munitions (fewer sorties needed) Drones and the F-35 will make the even smaller as strike packages need even fewer aircraft.

You do understand the Ford class is not that far off from the GHWB? It has moderate improvements in some places, yes. But the biggest thing to take away from it is the 30% reduction in personnel onboard. That is a HUGE cost savings in the long run.

Those are not moderate changes. It electromagnetic launch/recovery system and smart crew (smaller crew) are costly  innovations .

 The first is not really need and the second is of dubious pay off.  The smaller crew is cheaper but the experience on the LCSs has shown those crews are being overworked as you have a smaller crew doing a lot of the same workload-maintenance, refueling, etc.   Plus there is large degree of concern over how a smaller crew can handle damage control  task and still keep a ship fighting.

The Ford class is going to cost about $9 billion per ship excluding R&D costs.  The Nimitz class costs about half that.

The EMLS isn't needed? Really? It's safer, maintenance is easier, and the damage done to airframes is greatly reduced due to the accuracy of launch weights being better calculated.

The cost of the Nimitz has gone done considerably seeing as we're on the 10th one and, well, we've learned a few things along the way. I expect the same thing with the Ford class as time goes on. Or it becomes the F35 project.
2013-06-25 09:21:53 AM  
1 vote:

Aarontology: Having a defense budget many times that of he nearest nation is idiotic, especially given the network of alliances and economic ties we have with so many nations.

BS. Those alliances are not worth the paper they are written o. They are made with countries for the most part whose military is almost non-existent. I would remind you how or allies got there collective butts run out of Bosnia by the mighty Yugoslavian military and would not go back in without our help. In Kosovo we ended up flying 80% of the combat missions.

For example -you really think one of our European "allies" is going to risk its a cut of natural gas supply with Russia to help in our interests.

More importantly do you really want to but the ability to look after our countries interest, which are global and we are maritime nation, in the hands of others who would sell us out if it was in their interests. You may not remember it but most of our European allies became "less allied" during the Arab oil Embargo in the early 70s.

It's like buying a tenth gun to protect your family while cutting the food budget to pay for it.

Show me where we are doing that. We have spent $19 trillion dollars on the war on poverty since its inception-how has that worked out? Show me a year that Social Security and Medicare have decreased Exactly where are the great results for us spending more per student than any other country in the world?

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