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(BBC)   "Hi, I'd like to cancel my newspaper delivery because I've moved." "Of course, Your Holiness"   ( bbc.co.uk) divider line
    More: Amusing, Holy Thursday  
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8521 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2013 at 11:11 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2013-03-25 07:35:16 PM  

This text is now purple: Dragonflew: TheDirtyNacho: Dragonflew: haterade: I like this guy

Cute little stunts like this don't make up for his archaic view of homosexuality and women.

Less than 100% improvement is not equal to 0% improvement.

100% improvement would be no pope.

You do realize that Christianity coming around on birth control requires abandoning the rule against murder, right?

Consider whether those consequences would be a net benefit or not.

If you consider sperm and eggs "human beings", then masturbation is murder too.  An equally ridiculous notion.
2013-03-25 09:38:48 PM  

TheDirtyNacho: Dragonflew: haterade: I like this guy

Cute little stunts like this don't make up for his archaic view of homosexuality and women.

Less than 100% improvement is not equal to 0% improvement.

Every single one of ^^^these^^^.

This guy looks like a huge step in the right direction.
2013-03-25 10:00:53 PM  
2013-03-26 01:10:03 AM  

foxy_canuck: Sexuality is something that is relatively static (not that it doesn't change at all, just not typically drastically in a polar way) from a fairly young age...  Its the same logic used for the defense that a homosexual person IS that, they did not choose it or become it, it is fundamentally part of their being.  It's the same reason you can't 'cure' a pedophile... they will always have that attraction and it has to be carefully managed to protect children... that's the part that certain leaders in the Church have failed so poorly on, not the fact that some priests are pedophiles.

I'm pretty sure that the kind of researchers who study pedophilia now say that it's essentially a sexual orientation all its own, and as immutable as homosexuality.  Pedophiles, alas, cannot be cured, any more than homosexuals can be "cured".

This is sad, but it's also important to understand when trying to deal with pedophilia, especially when it comes to someone who's already been convicted of a crime.
2013-03-26 05:43:58 PM  

foxy_canuck: Agent Smiths Laugh

That's exactly what you argued.  You said that being celibate creates motive... unless the motive to pedophilia was already there, it won't be because a priest is celibate.  Priests as part of their formation learn how to deal with celibacy, how to express sexuality in other healthy ways, and how to deal with the challenges.  You are confusing suppression (voluntary control) with repression (involuntary, linked to trauma).  We suppress ALL of our physical appetites.  If we did not exercise suppression and control for example of our appetite for food we suffer obesity and a whole host of food related illnesses.  Someone who doesn't suppress their sexual appetites at appropriate times winds up a sex offender or cheating on a significant other.  There are healthy ways to learn suppression.  BTW, it's why teenagers struggle so much with it... the sexual changes they go through happen so rapidly, and there is so little practice of control, that it is tremendously difficult for them (imagine climbing a mountain with no previous conditioning).   I can't tell you that it 'can't possibly increase sexual pressure' within a person because that's idiotic.  When you have a craving, denying it increases the pressure to satisfy it... a healthy person learns ways to satisfy it that aren't harmful (related to food, learn techniques to avoid binge eating for example).  Also, no one expects every priest to be perfect in their vows.  A priest who is not a pedophile who breaks the vow of celibacy typically undergoes a reconciliation process (you should read the whole interview, Bergoglio talks about it).  A priest who is a pedophile was a pedophile before... being able to get married and have sex wouldn't change that (think of sandusky, or teachers who have affairs with students).

A priest enters into all of that willingly...  it takes many years of formation, and part of that is working hard to discern if that is part of the lifestyle that is meaningful to you, and ...

I get it, you feel compelled to defend priests (and perhaps the church), probably from a religious impulse. Go for it.

I feel celibacy is an act of destructive, dangerous, foolishness. I feel the same way about religion.

But I'm not stopping you from your thing. Keep on trucking. You simply won't be changing my mind, my views, or what I consider to be a realistic opinion about religion et al. Nor do you know all of my thoughts, knowledge, and observations about sex and religion. And frankly, I'm not going to bother with explaining myself to you.
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