FARK.com: (7661835) AWD is over-rated because some reporter who test drives the car, and parks in an underground garage thinks AWD isn't needed and snow tires will do. Wait till he sees the pictures from Lancashire today

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		AWD is over-rated because some reporter who test drives the car, and parks in an underground garage thinks AWD isn't needed and snow tires will do. Wait till he sees the pictures from Lancashire today ( popularmechanics.com)		185
		More: Dumbass, AWD, parking garage, Dodge Viper, laws of physics

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13252 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Mar 2013 at 7:31 AM (5 years ago) | Favorite | share:

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Kenny B

2013-03-24 12:34:02 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk

2013-03-24 01:06:19 AM

Was it full of holes?

/did they have to count them all?

Happy Hours

2013-03-24 01:25:26 AM

AWD is not a panacea. We got dumped on earlier and I just had to drive in it. The major streets had been cleared but the side streets and parking lots were pretty bad.

There's only one way to deal with that kind of mess. Slow down and avoid heavy braking. I only have FWD which may make acceleration more difficult than AWD but braking is different. I have brakes on all 4 wheels. I'm pretty sure all cars have brakes on all 4 wheels.

DoomPaul

2013-03-24 07:34:48 AM

AWD is not some magic end all be all. Anyway, I prefer RWD,

traylor

2013-03-24 07:41:34 AM

Yep, snow tires will do. Because snow tires are AWESOME.

uttertosh

2013-03-24 07:42:02 AM

D.Baggins in TFA "good set of tires beats AWD"

Ok, so put good set of tires on AWD, and......? What? Divide by zero?

anuran

2013-03-24 07:42:03 AM

I'm just incensed by those who fudge its ability beyond all recognition. AWD is great at aiding accelerating on slick surfaces and keeping a vehicle moving on snowy roads. Rally racers like AWD because it helps their over-powered cars accelerate on gravel and dirt paths. I co-drove an AWD car to victory in a 24-hour race, and in the rain I enjoyed how the car accelerated off the corners.

Subby needs to apply tag to himself.

Broktun

2013-03-24 07:43:37 AM

traylor: Yep, snow tires will do. Because snow tires are AWESOME.

What about snow tires and AWD?

darkscout

2013-03-24 07:43:52 AM

Happy Hours: There's only one way to deal with that kind of mess. Slow down and avoid heavy braking. I only have FWD which may make acceleration more difficult than AWD but braking is different. I have brakes on all 4 wheels. I'm pretty sure all cars have brakes on all 4 wheels.

4WD won't help you stop but it may help you get going. IF you have a locking differential. If you don't then you're almost always just as screwed.

traylor: Yep, snow tires will do. Because snow tires are AWESOME.

I had someone try to convince me that snow tires were some sort of magic super glue. Hell I learned to drive on near bald tires. Slow down you're not going to change the laws of physics.

neongoats

2013-03-24 07:43:58 AM

Prefer front wheel drive in the snow. My hyundai accent is great in heavy snow, motherfarker is like Legolas at Carahdras. Plus it's my shiat car I don't care if it gets wrecked.. that's a kind of freedom all to itself.

Dalek Caan's doomed mistress

2013-03-24 07:44:14 AM

I hate people who think AWD means they're immune to ice. You can always tell who doesn't know what the fark they're doing when it starts snowing and there's a layer of ice on the road. There's more to winter driving than just have four tires spinning at the same time.

jafiwam

2013-03-24 07:46:20 AM

Happy Hours: AWD is not a panacea. We got dumped on earlier and I just had to drive in it. The major streets had been cleared but the side streets and parking lots were pretty bad.

There's only one way to deal with that kind of mess. Slow down and avoid heavy braking. I only have FWD which may make acceleration more difficult than AWD but braking is different. I have brakes on all 4 wheels. I'm pretty sure all cars have brakes on all 4 wheels.

Yes, yes there is.

Jim_Callahan

2013-03-24 07:46:33 AM

AWD is better for traction, single-axle drives are better for efficiency, completely fixed differential (4WD) is better for power.

None of them will do a goddamned thing for you if F_horizontal > μ_static*F_{normal .}

//This isn't rocket science, nor is "take claims made by sales reps with a grain of salt".

neongoats

2013-03-24 07:48:00 AM

Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: I hate people who think AWD means they're immune to ice. You can always tell who doesn't know what the fark they're doing when it starts snowing and there's a layer of ice on the road. There's more to winter driving than just have four tires spinning at the same time.

I love snowy days. The drive to work is amusing. So many crashed suvs. Suvs stuck. Suv's spun out. Big four wheel drive giant pickups stuck. There should be a cheezeburger site about crashed 4wds.

ChubbyTiger

2013-03-24 07:51:26 AM

The article is absolutely correct. AWD is great for moving in slippery conditions, but it does dick all for handling. The increased traction off snow tires is far more important. Now for acceleration, it's great.

Always fun to see the Jeep drivers in a ditch because they think a Wrangle will corner well in the snow.

ChubbyTiger

2013-03-24 07:52:42 AM

It's possible I missed an 'r' in there.

Spirit Hammer

2013-03-24 07:52:57 AM

I've been driving a 4WD for many years, and I live in the midwest.
It helps in some situations.
You're less likely to get stuck going up a hill, you don't have to wait for as big a gap when turning left across traffic, and you can move smartly through an intersection.
Other than that, the only other benefit of 4WD is a slightly better chance of driving yourself out of a ditch.
It most certainly doesn't make you immune to physics.

priapic_abandon

2013-03-24 08:00:41 AM

In snow, Dad taught me: 1. to drive slower than you think you should, 2. have a car with FWD, manual transmission and decent snow tires and 3. push the gas pedal and brakes like there's a raw egg between your foot and the pedal. Try not to break the egg.

I alone am best

2013-03-24 08:01:39 AM

I love 4wd. Then again, if I didn't have it my suv would just be a rear wheel drive truck. Which let me tell you it sucks to have a RWD truck during a Michigan winter.

Kimpak

2013-03-24 08:02:26 AM

ChubbyTiger: Always fun to see the Jeep drivers in a ditch because they think a Wrangle will corner well in the snow.

Yeah, but if I ever got in a ditch when I had my Wrangler...I just drove right back out of it.

CluelessMoron

2013-03-24 08:06:18 AM

That writer seemed to miss the concept of "hills". I live at the top of a fairly steep hill.Pretty well only AWD vehicles make it up here during heavy snow. That's why I got one.

neongoats

2013-03-24 08:06:25 AM

I alone am best: I love 4wd. Then again, if I didn't have it my suv would just be a rear wheel drive truck. Which let me tell you it sucks to have a RWD truck during a Michigan winter.

Yeah, I have a rwd pickup truck in Ohio, I drove my "who gives a fark" car all winter instead, heh.

Ker_Thwap

2013-03-24 08:07:42 AM

My favorite winter hobby is counting the AWD/4WD cars off the side of the highway. It's a nice slow speed tool, but does squat otherwise.

BigBooper

2013-03-24 08:08:25 AM

I live in Wisconsin, and the biggest problem is the people who drive at both ends of the spectrum. The idiots that drive full speed on snow and ice are just as bad as those who drive way too slow. You get caught between those driving 30 mph too fast and those driving 30 mph too slow. If your so freaked out by the snow that you won't go faster than 15 mph on the freeway, then stay off the freaking road.

I alone am best

2013-03-24 08:11:47 AM

neongoats: I alone am best: I love 4wd. Then again, if I didn't have it my suv would just be a rear wheel drive truck. Which let me tell you it sucks to have a RWD truck during a Michigan winter.

Yeah, I have a rwd pickup truck in Ohio, I drove my "who gives a fark" car all winter instead, heh.

Before I bought this trailblazer I had a dodge dakota, The thing I remember about that truck the most is I could never turn from a side street onto a road that was going up hill if it was slushy. I had to pickup speed just to make it up a 10 degree incline.

Kimpak

2013-03-24 08:13:07 AM

BigBooper: e who drive way too slow. You get caught between those driving 30 mph too fast and those driving 30 mph too slow. If your so freaked out by the snow that you won't go faster than 15 mph on the freeway, then stay off the freaking road.

This! I'm just across the border in Iowa. Drive slower yes, but ffs don't be that dick that's driving 10mph on the interstate.

/drove to work on snow covered roads this morning..getting a kick out of this thread.

Shang-High

2013-03-24 08:16:21 AM

Skinny (as in 165-skinny) studded (as in full studs not one row) snow tires (Hakkas if possible). I have never been stuck with FWD and snows, not ever (25 years of New England driving, including in the middle of massive blizzards). Hitting a sheet of ice with studded snows means you CAN still stop, if you haven't driven with them I highly recommend you try next winter and feel the difference.

bborchar

2013-03-24 08:18:07 AM

It's always fun to drive slowly past the a-hole who just sped past you and then went off the road a little ways ahead of you. I live in Pittsburgh - the hills+road quality (none)+snow=doesn't matter what your car has if you don't slow the f*** down. I think the writer is basically trying to tell people that AWD are not the magical machines in snow and ice that the industry has perpetuated to sell that 50k SUV to the avaerage soccer mom.

Kimpak

2013-03-24 08:18:42 AM

Ker_Thwap: My favorite winter hobby is counting the AWD/4WD cars off the side of the highway. It's a nice slow speed tool, but does squat otherwise.

Those vehicles are not on the sides of the highways because of AWD/4WD false sense of secrity, they are there because the drivers of them are dumb, they'd be there in any vehicle they happen to be driving.

SnarfVader

2013-03-24 08:19:35 AM

The key is to slow the fark down in slick conditions, no matter what you drive. Just because you have a huge SUV and grew up where snow is measured in feet doesn't make you immune to the laws of physics.

Kimpak

2013-03-24 08:21:18 AM

Shang-High: Skinny (as in 165-skinny) studded (as in full studs not one row) snow tires (Hakkas if possible). I have never been stuck with FWD and snows, not ever (25 years of New England driving, including in the middle of massive blizzards). Hitting a sheet of ice with studded snows means you CAN still stop, if you haven't driven with them I highly recommend you try next winter and feel the difference.

Studded are illegal in some states, mine included. I think...

neongoats

2013-03-24 08:23:20 AM

Do you have a wet weather suggestion for a ford ranger? =p Going to be in the pacific northwest in the fall, know next to nothing about tires, want to get awesome tires for the first time in my life.

Sultan Of Herf

2013-03-24 08:23:34 AM

Broktun: traylor: Yep, snow tires will do. Because snow tires are AWESOME.

What about snow tires and AWD?

Thats my thought.That combo should produce a great snow condition car.

Ill mildly agree that in snow conditions the snow tires on any car are a bit better than all season tires on AWD...but if you live in a place that has a long snow season your should be putting snow tires on your car no matter what drive it is.

It should also be noted that "all season" tires suck, unless you are buying top $$ brands. Even then they still arent so great. I personally tend to run directional V tread tires in all seasons here in FL, and they do great, even in heavy rain.

BigBooper: I live in Wisconsin, and the biggest problem is the people who drive at both ends of the spectrum. The idiots that drive full speed on snow and ice are just as bad as those who drive way too slow. You get caught between those driving 30 mph too fast and those driving 30 mph too slow. If your so freaked out by the snow that you won't go faster than 15 mph on the freeway, then stay off the freaking road.

QFT.

Ker_Thwap: My favorite winter hobby is counting the AWD/4WD cars off the side of the highway. It's a nice slow speed tool, but does squat otherwise.

QFT as well. Too many people think 4WD and AWD are magic, and they count on them far too much.

DoomPaul: AWD is not some magic end all be all. Anyway, I prefer RWD,

Ever driven a high powered RWD car in the rain? I had an 89 Firebird Formula 350, mildly modded. Its was the slowest car on the road when it was wet. 350+ ft/lb of torque and 245 width tires arent a good combination if its not completely dry. It would kick the rear end out with even mild throttle application.

This was in the days before traction control, stability control, and all the other electronic nannies you wimps these days rely on. You actually had to know how to drive a car, not point it in a direction and expect the computer to keep it out of the ditch for you.

Kimpak

2013-03-24 08:25:56 AM

SnarfVader: The key is to slow the fark down in slick conditions, no matter what you drive. Just because you have a huge SUV and grew up where snow is measured in feet doesn't make you immune to the laws of physics.

Just don't slow down too much. Especially if you are in a state where snow is measured in feet. In general, we are better at driving in it than people who are not from there. It's completely reasonable to drive 45-50mph in a couple inches of snow as long as you don't run into (literaly) some asshat going 10mph in the one good lane. Ice is a different story, but some types of snow have some traction to it. Especially if the DOT has gotten some sand out before the storm.

Norfolking Chance

2013-03-24 08:27:05 AM

Driver skill is far more important than any mechanical device. If you don't know how to drive on snow or ice it doesn't matter if you have AWD and snow tyres you will end up wrapped around a tree or telephone pole.

Plus Lancashire sucks

SnarfVader

2013-03-24 08:27:26 AM

Kimpak: Shang-High: Skinny (as in 165-skinny) studded (as in full studs not one row) snow tires (Hakkas if possible). I have never been stuck with FWD and snows, not ever (25 years of New England driving, including in the middle of massive blizzards). Hitting a sheet of ice with studded snows means you CAN still stop, if you haven't driven with them I highly recommend you try next winter and feel the difference.

Studded are illegal in some states, mine included. I think...

Those tires he mentioned are great even without the studs (rubber stays soft and grippy in lower temps), but I would recommend sticking with the proper tire size for your vehicle if you don't or can't use studs.

ChubbyTiger

2013-03-24 08:27:38 AM

Kimpak: ChubbyTiger: Always fun to see the Jeep drivers in a ditch because they think a Wrangle will corner well in the snow.

Yeah, but if I ever got in a ditch when I had my Wrangler...I just drove right back out of it.

If you know what you're doing, sure. Most Jeep/SUV drivers have no idea. Of course, that's why they were in the ditch to begin with.

maram500

2013-03-24 08:29:22 AM

Kenny B:

Is...is that a Fiat Panda?

If it is, I know someone who would like a word with you...

SnarfVader

2013-03-24 08:30:00 AM

Kimpak: SnarfVader: The key is to slow the fark down in slick conditions, no matter what you drive. Just because you have a huge SUV and grew up where snow is measured in feet doesn't make you immune to the laws of physics.

Just don't slow down too much. Especially if you are in a state where snow is measured in feet. In general, we are better at driving in it than people who are not from there. It's completely reasonable to drive 45-50mph in a couple inches of snow as long as you don't run into (literaly) some asshat going 10mph in the one good lane. Ice is a different story, but some types of snow have some traction to it. Especially if the DOT has gotten some sand out before the storm.

Yeah, true. Don't become a hazard. I was referring mostly those who pass everybody else doing 70 and end up in a ditch two miles down the interstate.

RaistlinsLegacy

2013-03-24 08:33:20 AM

ChubbyTiger: Kimpak: ChubbyTiger: Always fun to see the Jeep drivers in a ditch because they think a Wrangle will corner well in the snow.

Yeah, but if I ever got in a ditch when I had my Wrangler...I just drove right back out of it.

If you know what you're doing, sure. Most Jeep/SUV drivers have no idea. Of course, that's why they were in the ditch to begin with.

Hey I never had a problem in bad weather in my wranglers. Sunny days get me in trouble :) 4wd, short wheel base, mud tires and manual transmission equals win.

Dunno how people drive automatics.... Downshifting is so nice in slick conditions

SnarfVader

2013-03-24 08:34:11 AM

neongoats: Shang-High: Skinny (as in 165-skinny) studded (as in full studs not one row) snow tires (Hakkas if possible). I have never been stuck with FWD and snows, not ever (25 years of New England driving, including in the middle of massive blizzards). Hitting a sheet of ice with studded snows means you CAN still stop, if you haven't driven with them I highly recommend you try next winter and feel the difference.

Do you have a wet weather suggestion for a ford ranger? =p Going to be in the pacific northwest in the fall, know next to nothing about tires, want to get awesome tires for the first time in my life.

What side of the Cascades will you be on? The west-siders really only need good rain tires and studs lose traction in purely wet weather. I would only recommend studded tires on the east side or if you routinely go up the mountains to ski.

Kimpak

2013-03-24 08:36:00 AM

RaistlinsLegacy: Hey I never had a problem in bad weather in my wranglers. Sunny days get me in trouble :) 4wd, short wheel base, mud tires and manual transmission equals win.

Dunno how people drive automatics.... Downshifting is so nice in slick conditions

QFT! Its hard to find a decent new car with a proper manual. Flappy paddles do not count. I miss my jeep, but it became too expensive to feed.

SnarfVader

2013-03-24 08:36:36 AM

SnarfVader: neongoats: Shang-High: Skinny (as in 165-skinny) studded (as in full studs not one row) snow tires (Hakkas if possible). I have never been stuck with FWD and snows, not ever (25 years of New England driving, including in the middle of massive blizzards). Hitting a sheet of ice with studded snows means you CAN still stop, if you haven't driven with them I highly recommend you try next winter and feel the difference.

Do you have a wet weather suggestion for a ford ranger? =p Going to be in the pacific northwest in the fall, know next to nothing about tires, want to get awesome tires for the first time in my life.

What side of the Cascades will you be on? The west-siders really only need good rain tires and studs lose traction in purely wet weather. I would only recommend studded tires on the east side or if you routinely go up the mountains to ski.

Oh. I just reread your post. I have a set of Pirelli's that do awesome in the rain. I didn't know they made truck tires until I got mine.

Nick Nostril

2013-03-24 08:36:56 AM

jafiwam: Happy Hours: AWD is not a panacea. We got dumped on earlier and I just had to drive in it. The major streets had been cleared but the side streets and parking lots were pretty bad.

There's only one way to deal with that kind of mess. Slow down and avoid heavy braking. I only have FWD which may make acceleration more difficult than AWD but braking is different. I have brakes on all 4 wheels. I'm pretty sure all cars have brakes on all 4 wheels.

Yes, yes there is.

[www.famouslogos.us image 430x173]

Amen brother.

AWD may not be a panacea, but it is one hell of a lot more fun in the snow. Nancies need not apply (ie. stay home).

Ker_Thwap

2013-03-24 08:37:17 AM

I learned to drive in the snow in a Lincoln Mark IV with crappy tires, the first time I hit dry pavement I was confused. Other than the fun factor of playing around with controlled drifts, RWD is a pain in the snow.

wrenchboy

2013-03-24 08:38:05 AM

Broktun: traylor: Yep, snow tires will do. Because snow tires are AWESOME.

What about snow tires and AWD?

How about a six pack and just stay the fark home?

CarnySaur

2013-03-24 08:41:32 AM

Kimpak: BigBooper: e who drive way too slow. You get caught between those driving 30 mph too fast and those driving 30 mph too slow. If your so freaked out by the snow that you won't go faster than 15 mph on the freeway, then stay off the freaking road.

This! I'm just across the border in Iowa. Drive slower yes, but ffs don't be that dick that's driving 10mph on the interstate.

/drove to work on snow covered roads this morning..getting a kick out of this thread.

You learn not to drive too slow when you find out that lack of momentum means you start sliding backwards and sideways. Then again, if you think the person in front of you is driving too slow on the highway, man up and pass them in the unplowed left lane, don't tailgate them hoping they get the hint.

Nefarious

2013-03-24 08:42:26 AM

Kimpak: Those vehicles are not on the sides of the highways because of AWD/4WD false sense of secrity, they are there because the drivers of them are dumb, they'd be there in any vehicle they happen to be driving.

This

Norfolking Chance: Driver skill is far more important than any mechanical device. If you don't know how to drive on snow or ice it doesn't matter if you have AWD and snow tyres you will end up wrapped around a tree or telephone pole.

I have an AWD now but before that is was all RWD and I never got stuck. You have to drive with the knowledge that if at all possible you do not want to touch your brakes. AWD helps but doesn't allow you to ignore physics.

/that said as a teen I took a big Chrysler New Yorker with a 400 V8 up a steep hill at around 5 actual mph. Now my speedometer read around 60 and I was basically sideways all the way up. I don't think I would attempt that now.

Nick Nostril

2013-03-24 08:42:32 AM

SnarfVader: The key is to ~~slow the fark down in slick conditions, no matter what you drive. Just because you have a huge SUV and grew up where snow is measured in feet doesn't make you immune to the laws of physics~~ be considerate and stay home until spring.

FTFY.

RaistlinsLegacy

2013-03-24 08:42:48 AM

Kimpak: RaistlinsLegacy: Hey I never had a problem in bad weather in my wranglers. Sunny days get me in trouble :) 4wd, short wheel base, mud tires and manual transmission equals win.

Dunno how people drive automatics.... Downshifting is so nice in slick conditions

QFT! Its hard to find a decent new car with a proper manual. Flappy paddles do not count. I miss my jeep, but it became too expensive to feed.

Just Empty Every Pocket. I've never owned anything but wranglers.... And hunting for friggen manuals is getting harder. Depressing.

Guy at work was talking about his "almost manual ford focus" WTF is almost manual?

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