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(MassLive)   How long does war keep costing America? The government is still paying benefits for service in the Civil War   ( masslive.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, U.S. state abbreviations, U.S., Spanish-American War, Agent Orange, Korean War, relatives, Vietnam War  
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15104 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2013 at 1:12 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2013-03-19 01:26:55 PM  
4 votes:

That Magnificent Bastard!: flamingboard: But Bush and Co. said Iraq would pay for itself.

Reference needed.

Here's a reference for the 'and Co.' part - Paul Wolfowitz, congressional testimony on March 27, 2003:

There's a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.
2013-03-19 01:43:12 PM  
3 votes:
Alan Simpson, a former Republican senator and veteran who co-chaired President Barack Obama's deficit committee in 2010, said government leaders working to limit the national debt should make sure that survivors of veterans need the money they are receiving.

"Without question, I would affluence-test all of those people," Simpson said.

How true! Because as we all know, people who join the military are all very wealthy and serve out of pure patriotism.

Trust me, as a retired service member, I'm not getting rich off the benefits I earned while on active duty. Yes, it was my choice to do 20+ years, and I didn't do it just for the retirement pay and medical. But, it was nice knowing that in exchange for my service I would get some benefits (especially since they were promised to us to get us to the 20 years).

 Are there people milking the system? Yes. But that is true in any program (government or civilian).

If Congress wants to do this, why not affluence check all Senators and Congressmen? I seriously doubt that any of them would give up their benefits.
2013-03-19 01:24:58 PM  
3 votes:

wickedragon: I seem to remember that the last wife of a Civil War veteran died just a couple of years ago. Or was that "the wife of a civil war vet"?

Maudie Hopkins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudie_Hopkins

She was 19, he was 86. The Arkansas legislature passed a law in 1937 banning women who married Civil War veterans (72 years after the war) from getting a widow's pension, and they expanded it to state no pensions at all for women born after 1870. Presumably the others were okay.

This wasn't that uncommon- easy way to make sure someone was taken care of, even if the family didn't have any money of its own.

It's frustrating from a genealogical standpoint- unless you can prove the marriage, it throws you off. An age gap like that is typically grandparent-grandchild, not husband and wife. I chased one set for months before finding the pension paperwork.

Laws like this make for interesting situations. My great-great-great-grandfather owned a hill in his small town, and one day, the steel mill wanted to lay a railroad track down. He agreed, as long as there was a fee paid in perpetuity. It was a nickel a car.

We still get a check once a year. It's not much now, just about twenty bucks since Wheeling Steel doesn't use it much, but it's neat.
2013-03-19 01:18:20 PM  
3 votes:
I'm OK with paying out benefits to vets and their children for the next 100 years.  Send the kids to college while we're at it.

I'd rather we'd never gone to war in the first place though.
2013-03-19 04:24:16 PM  
2 votes:

cwolf20: A friend of mine is still trying to get his missing half of an ankle declared as a handicap. Instead of a scar, according to the medical records.

Several of the VA people he's talked to over the years have told them that he doesn't look handicapped. He walks straight. He doesn't slur his speech. He at the least wears nice jeans, a collared shirt, and good tennis shoes. He's been told that because he dresses neat, doesn't slouch or slur, never seems to walk without any issues. In spite of the wooden insert in his shoe that causes pain over time.

That they can't do anything.

OK, check it out, here's the no-shiat way to get the system to work for your buddy.

First and foremost, he needs to make an appointment to be seen IN PERSON at a VA clinic. He's not going to ue his own doctor's records for anything, he needs to go to the appropriate VA facility. And here are the key words he's going to need to use: "service-connected" and "compensation and pension". As in he needs to go to a clinic to be seen for a service-connected injury, for which he is seeking compensation and pension.

While taking that step, he also needs to insure that there will be X-rays taken as part of his appointment. I can't stress that enough- there MUST be a radiology consult if he wants to show that he's missing something.

Finally- and this is slightly less important- the night before he goes, he needs to drink. Not enough that he won't be functional the next day, but some. And it needs to be something very specific: cheap gin. There will be a certain aura about him the next day that will add to his gravitas. And yes, I'm dead serious on that.

If you have any other questions, EIP. In case it's not, it's my name at ultrafark dot com.
2013-03-19 01:44:38 PM  
2 votes:
I'm a fiscal conservative, but the government (i.e., we) should fully honor all the promises to vets. If it was a costly promise, that's our problem, not the vet's problem.

Going forward, maybe we should adjust the promises that are made. But past
2013-03-19 01:39:40 PM  
2 votes:
We also pay $174k per year to every one of our senators and representatives.

If i remember correctly; we pay them $174k a year for life. 435 current representatives, plus 100 senators for a total of 535 people guaranteed to get $174k for life. That's $93 million a year. And that's just for the people currently in congress. We also pay benefits to their families.
2013-03-19 01:32:20 PM  
2 votes:
TFA: ""Without question, I would affluence-test all of those people," Simpson said."

If you want to do a database query against tax returns, knock yourself out.
If you want an accurate examination and audits? That shiat's gonna cost more than you save.
2013-03-19 01:26:24 PM  
2 votes:

honk: Time for Republican budget cuts?

If they get back in power they will start in on attacks on VA benefits again.
//We need to fund our current fighting force, spending money on guys who lost legs to roadside bombs is just donating to the 47%.
2013-03-19 01:26:03 PM  
2 votes:
I got no problem paying pension to the children of Union soldiers.  Just so long as no money is going to any children of traitors from the south.  In fact, the children of Confederates should be taxed to pay for the pension for the children of the American soldiers.
2013-03-19 01:19:37 PM  
2 votes:
But Bush and Co. said Iraq would pay for itself.
2013-03-19 12:19:20 PM  
2 votes:
Step 1: Get poor folk to fight for you
Step 2: Pay lip service to their service
Step 3: Reneg on benefits to give yourself tax breaks
Step 4: No Uncertainty or ??, goto Step 5
Step 5: Profit!
2013-03-19 03:01:09 PM  
1 vote:

verydrab: How fair is it to concurrently collect a military retirement pension, a va pension and social security disability pension?
Vets with IBS are laughing all the way to the bank.

I don't know what you mean by "fair," but your hypothetical---concurrent military retirement, VA pension, and SSDI---is questionable.  I currently draw both a military and VA pension, but---and it's a big but---the Navy pension is offset dollar-for-dollar by the VA pension.  The net amount is the same. (Why both?  On retirement, I opted to take the VA pension on the subjective feeling that it would mean less burden on the Operations and Maintenance Navy appropriation.)

There was a brief time when I also qualified for (and collected) SSDI.  As soon as I got a job, I called the SSA; told 'em about the job; and the SSDI stopped.  You only get SSDI if you're too disabled to work.

I Googled for IBS and found "irritable bowel syndrome."  When I was in the military health care system (Oct 1968--Sep 1969), IBS wasn't grounds for disability.  I currently volunteer once a week at the VA's Community Living and Rehabilitation Center (i.e., nursing home) in Baltimore, in the physical therapy department.  Of course I can't be sure if the patients there have IBS, but they do have other visible signs of infirmity.  And if they regularly visited the bank, whether laughing or serious, they wouldn't be patients at the CLRC.
2013-03-19 02:24:23 PM  
1 vote:

That Magnificent Bastard!: flamingboard: But Bush and Co. said Iraq would pay for itself.

Reference needed.


second paragraph-

Second isn't a great reference but you get the point.
Google search brings up quite a few pages on this very issue.
Perhaps your memory is just being helpful?
2013-03-19 01:58:08 PM  
1 vote:

olddinosaur: Robert Heinlein told the story of a drummer boy who served in the War of 1812 at age 12.

When he was 65, he married a girl who was 15, and she lived to be 85.

So the last pension for the war of 1812 was paid in 1935, 121 years after the war was over.

Knowing Heinlein, the drummer boy was their son.
2013-03-19 01:57:18 PM  
1 vote:

verydrab: If you volunteered, wtf did you expect?

I'll handle this one- how about "the benefits that were promised, as an enticement to both initially volunteer and subsequently keep volunteering"?
2013-03-19 01:49:23 PM  
1 vote:
Without a breakdown on how many lazy brown people are defrauding the government of welfare this information is useless.

Furthermore, the sum total wouldn't dent the ginormous debt Farbongo is wracking up with foodstamps.

So who cares?
2013-03-19 01:45:35 PM  
1 vote:
I prefer to provide the money to them than to persons who destroyed their lives through lack of high school education, drugs and or unsupportable pregnancies.
2013-03-19 01:41:31 PM  
1 vote:
Robert Heinlein told the story of a drummer boy who served in the War of 1812 at age 12.

When he was 65, he married a girl who was 15, and she lived to be 85.

So the last pension for the war of 1812 was paid in 1935, 121 years after the war was over.
2013-03-19 01:39:21 PM  
1 vote:

olddeegee: Still waiting for: You mean the "War of Northern Aggression" don't you?

Sorry...It just seemed so quiet in here.

My family always referred to it as "the late unpleasantness."
2013-03-19 01:21:32 PM  
1 vote:
All of the people receiving these make up part of Romney's 47%.
2013-03-19 12:38:25 PM  
1 vote:
We technically still have bonds outstanding from the 1700s.  They can't be taken off the books because they can still be redeemed, but they are most likely to be long since lost.
2013-03-19 12:28:37 PM  
1 vote:
Don't worry the wars pay for themselves in increased productivity. It really gets the economy moving.
2013-03-19 10:10:14 AM  
1 vote:
It's interesting, it shows some history is closer than we might think.
2013-03-19 10:03:33 AM  
1 vote:
I seem to remember that the last wife of a Civil War veteran died just a couple of years ago. Or was that "the wife of a civil war vet"?
2013-03-19 09:57:40 AM  
1 vote:
The Civil War payments are going to two children of veterans - one in North Carolina and one in Tennessee- each for $876 per year.

$1,752!! F*cking takers....
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