DamnYankees: Alphax: We'd been flying air patrols over Iraq for the past 10+ years. Nothing could move in their air space without US permission. And now they're a threat that must be attacked before they nuke us? Not credible.Once again - congratulations for thinking that in 2003. You were right and I was wrong. I readily admit it.Now, how is this helpful in figuring out how to prevent this in the future?
thecpt: jso2897: As in Vietnam - there was never any "victory" there for us to "win" in the first place, and no way to "develop" one later that was going to fool anybody.the goal was to stop the spread of the red,no? Sounds fun.
DamnYankees: Donald Rumsfeld @RumsfeldOffice10 yrs ago began the long, difficult work of liberating 25 mil Iraqis. All who played a role in history deserve our respect & appreciation.Go fark yourself.
midigod: If you feel shame about your previous support, I'd genuinely like to hear why you supported it at the time.
DamnYankees: Once again - congratulations for thinking that in 2003. You were right and I was wrong. I readily admit it.Now, how is this helpful in figuring out how to prevent this in the future?
nekom: There is one thing that I still haven't been able to figure out. Saddam DID at one time have nerve gas, in fact he used it on the Kurds. The USA wasn't the ONLY intelligence agency that said that he had them. So what happened to them? Obviously they were gone, I think they found some old shells with residue but that's about it. People said they went to Syria, but with all that's going on there and the fact that they weren't deployed, that's obviously not the case.So what really happened? Did Saddam voluntarily get rid of them years ago? Or did he think they still had them, perhaps his generals just lied to him and said they did? It's said that near the tail end of WW2, Hitler was commanding imaginary armies, no one wanted to tell him the truth, perhaps that was the case there? Obviously they are gone, just wondering what led from him having them to him not.
solitary: This has nothing to do with hindsight. WE KNEW AT THE TIME THEY WERE LYING. Those of us who were paying attention. Those of you who weren't should be ashamed of yourselves.
thecpt: jso2897: Wasn't.what was it?(honestly, I like history but I can't bring myself to read about that era or conflict because of the amount of derp that was flying around)
jso2897: If you are too lazy to read, I am too lazy to write.Have a nice day.
thecpt: jso2897: If you are too lazy to read, I am too lazy to write.Have a nice day.c'mon. What I have read and what they choose to teach in schools indicates that the US did it to prevent the spread of communism. If there is such a simple alternative reason then you can say that one goddamn word and move on, and I'll do the work from there. No, you wrote that response instead. Have a nice day, douche.
jso2897: Like I didn't know I was being trolled in the first place. Take it back to 4chan - you're an amateur.
Shrugging Atlas: I envisioned us getting in, whacking Hussein, installing a marginally American-friendly dictator and letting him rule with an iron fist as long as we were allowed to call a shot every now and then and set up a few bases out in western Iraq that would grant us increased leverage with some of the other nations in the region. Reduce the need to move an entire carrier group into the eastern Med or Gulf every time another nation wanted to threaten the flow of oil, raise hell with Israel, etc.
MFK: solitary: This has nothing to do with hindsight. WE KNEW AT THE TIME THEY WERE LYING. Those of us who were paying attention. Those of you who weren't should be ashamed of yourselves.
DamnYankees: Donald Rumsfeld @RumsfeldOffice10 yrs ago began the long, difficult work of liberating 25 mil Iraqis. All who played a role in history deserve our respect & appreciation.
midigod: Thank you for your answer. If we assume for a moment that everything you thought was true, was in fact absolutely accurate, why would it be okay for the US to do such a thing; destabilize an entire nation and install a puppet (or puppet-like) regime for the sake of exerting possible future force against other nations, simply for economic reasons?
Shrugging Atlas: At the time, I would have said it was OK because it would have been in our best interests if done well, and frankly was bound to happen anyway (I'll have to explain that further) so we might as well do so under our own terms.
midigod: While I think both you and I disagree with what you thought ten years ago, it's not often one gets to have a discussion like this, so thank you. It's really very interesting. I would still have disagreed with you about the destabilization's desirability, and even whether it would have escalated had we not gone in full-tilt, but our conversation probably wouldn't have been so civil at that time, and I think that's why it's fascinating to discuss.
Deep Contact: The repercussions were that Obammmma was elected twice.
StreetlightInTheGhetto: Sorry to all the Iraqi families torn apart by this. Especially those who aided the Americans and coalition who weren't offered a fast track path to citizenship for themselves and their families after they were put in harms way.
Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Bladel: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: solitary: WE KNEW AT THE TIME THEY WERE LYING.I don't think that's 100% true, although I think the majority opposed to the war knew, for whatever their reasons, that the whole thing was a bad idea.Ok, but the original point stands: People spoke out at the time. Not only were they ridiculed, their love of America was called to question.That's not in dispute, I'm just trying to remember the conversation the country was having at the time without injecting what we've found out in hindsight.
Mouser: When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, we were not satisfied until we had destroyed the Empire of Japan and demanded its peoples' unconditional surrender under the threat of nuclear genocide. Our response to the 9/11 attacks should be no less thorough.10 years on, and the Middle East is in flames, with most of its governments on the brink of collapse and its peoples engaged in bloody internecine warfare. So far, I'd say we've almost achieved our goal--the destruction of the Arab culture that gave rise to Al Qaeda.
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