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(Daily Mail)   Police unsure how a convicted sex offender, who was taken into custody after being charged with murdering a woman and raping her ten year old daughter, could show up to his first hearing with a broken nose   ( dailymail.co.uk) divider line
    More: Obvious, broken nose, Justice Center, innocent until proven guilty, carjackings, kidnappings  
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18167 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Mar 2013 at 2:57 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



327 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-03-18 02:59:15 PM  
NOT how I expected the guy to look at all. Wow.
 
2013-03-18 02:59:31 PM  
Poor little delicate flower. I'm so heartbroken at his rough treatment.
 
2013-03-18 03:00:34 PM  
Great, another rapist for CNN to weep over.
 
2013-03-18 03:00:49 PM  

Jae0o0: NOT how I expected the guy to look at all. Wow.


I was trying to come up with something more clever but you pegged it.
 
2013-03-18 03:00:56 PM  
Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.
 
2013-03-18 03:01:21 PM  
Was that a before pic?  If anything they were helping him smash it back into place.
 
2013-03-18 03:01:30 PM  
I bet he doesn't last the month......
 
2013-03-18 03:01:34 PM  
I would have had a hard time explaining why we couldn't find his head.

Just sayin'. It was here a minute ago, I swear.
 
2013-03-18 03:01:40 PM  
Filthy pigs
 
2013-03-18 03:02:19 PM  
He fell down, or something.

/ probably got into a scrap while in jail; they don't like kiddy diddlers there
 
2013-03-18 03:02:56 PM  
He "fell". A lot.
 
2013-03-18 03:03:05 PM  
So jail / prison isn't a nice place to be ?
 
2013-03-18 03:03:12 PM  
Police unsure how a convicted sex offender, who was taken into custody after being charged with murdering a woman and raping her ten year old daughter, could show up to his first hearing with a broken nose alive.

/Seriously though, cops shouldn't be able to beat people up, and "charged" isn't "convicted"
 
2013-03-18 03:03:30 PM  
The guys at the county jail say that this sort of thing is common.
 
2013-03-18 03:04:06 PM  
His face kept slamming into the cops fist
 
2013-03-18 03:04:16 PM  

nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.


I would opine that this particular vigilante justice was anything but arbitrary.

/not saying I'd have done it myself
//but I understand
 
2013-03-18 03:04:43 PM  

nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.


well technically the police didn't dispense anything... however an omission... that may be a different story
 
2013-03-18 03:04:53 PM  

cig-mkr: So jail / prison isn't a nice place to be ?


People who have't been convicted should not be treated as if they have been found guilty.
 
2013-03-18 03:05:02 PM  

cig-mkr: So jail / prison isn't a nice place to be ?


I don't see it listed on Travelocity.com.
 
2013-03-18 03:05:32 PM  
for those that DRTFA, the 5-0 didn't do it, the general pop did...
 
2013-03-18 03:06:06 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Police unsure how a convicted sex offender, who was taken into custody after being charged with murdering a woman and raping her ten year old daughter, could show up to his first hearing with a broken nose alive.

/Seriously though, cops shouldn't be able to beat people up, and "charged" isn't "convicted"


He *was* convicted of possession of child porn previously, thus a "convicted sex offender".  It's all right there in TFA.
 
2013-03-18 03:07:16 PM  
First greenlight!

Just unfortunate that it came from such a tragic story :-(
 
2013-03-18 03:07:28 PM  
i.qkme.meView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 03:07:31 PM  

DerPups: for those that DRTFA, the 5-0 didn't do it, the general pop did...


Yes. Because he was put into custody with other prisoners, against established procedure. Wonder how that happened.
 
2013-03-18 03:08:06 PM  

offmymeds: cig-mkr: So jail / prison isn't a nice place to be ?

I don't see it listed on Travelocity.com.


You guys are makin' up rhymes

About some Mommy killer, kid banger doin' time

Once nerdboy hit the cage,

The other prisoners unleashed their rage

/it's got a nice beat to it, I can dance to it.
 
2013-03-18 03:08:18 PM  

nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.


FTFA:He was assaulted by other inmates at the Onondaga County Justice Center during his first day in jail

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294676/David-Renz-Sex-offend e r-killed-librarian-raped-daughter-10-beaten-day-jail.html#ixzz2Nv5g6uJ x

Just jumped out in front of that as fast as you could, huh?
/Not a fan of police myself, typically
 
2013-03-18 03:08:23 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Police unsure how a convicted sex offender, who was taken into custody after being charged with murdering a woman and raping her ten year old daughter, could show up to his first hearing with a broken nose alive.

/Seriously though, cops shouldn't be able to beat people up, and "charged" isn't "convicted"


Fortunately, there's gen pop.
 
2013-03-18 03:09:06 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: cig-mkr: So jail / prison isn't a nice place to be ?

People who have't been convicted should not be treated as if they have been found guilty.


So you're suggesting someone charged with a sex crime should be released on conditions and not kept in jail? Hmm, well let's see here....

FTA: The 29-year-old had been charged in January with possession of child pornography and allowed to remain free under terms that included staying off the Internet and away from places including schools, parks and arcades.

If this guy had been in jail where he belonged the first time round, that kid's mother would be alive today and the kid wouldn't have a lifetime of therapy ahead of her.
 
2013-03-18 03:09:11 PM  
This is how to explain it it--FTA:
He was assaulted by other inmates at the Onondaga County Justice Center during his first day in jail.
Guy is messed up.
 
2013-03-18 03:09:20 PM  

nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.


According to TFA, it wasn't the police who did it, it was apparently fellow prisoners.  Though there does seem to be an issue with them allowing him into the public holding cell.

He raped a girl and murdered her mother.  Don't guard this farker, don't put any effort into protecting him.  Let his fellow inmates bound him and rape him as he did to his victim.  That's the least he deserves.
 
2013-03-18 03:09:33 PM  
Did that article have every revision of the story just one after the other after the other or am I seeing in multiples?
 
2013-03-18 03:09:38 PM  
/Oblig
 
2013-03-18 03:09:50 PM  
Yeah, he looks like a guy who's likely to have normal, healthy relationships with women.
 
2013-03-18 03:10:05 PM  

nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.


Want to know how I know you didn't RTFA?

His attorneys, James Greenwald and Kenneth Moynihan, said Renz was assaulted by other inmates at the Onondaga County Justice Center, where he was taken following his arrest Thursday night
 
2013-03-18 03:10:15 PM  

geo9270: [i.qkme.me image 625x770]


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 03:10:33 PM  
wac.450f.edgecastcdn.netView Full Size


Preview is your friend
 
2013-03-18 03:10:40 PM  
he will claim insanity and get it.
 
2013-03-18 03:10:54 PM  

Cagey B: DerPups: for those that DRTFA, the 5-0 didn't do it, the general pop did...

Yes. Because he was put into custody with other prisoners, against established procedure. Wonder how that happened.


Paperwork mixup.  Jailers thought he was in for littering & creating a nuisance.
 
2013-03-18 03:11:02 PM  
We need to a place to segregate criminals like this from the rest of society, humanely, and with little to no expense for the rest of us. What if we just gave them part of North Dakota, an arable part, and just let them have at it. Yeah, it would be difficult, but surely there is a way to make it work. Give trustees police power / tasers maybe, with the rest working the fields? Hollywood tells us it would descend into Escape from New York, but I'm not so sure that would happen. Australia turned out ok.
 
2013-03-18 03:11:44 PM  
A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights.  Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.
 
2013-03-18 03:12:50 PM  
Damn man, I wonder if getting his child pron mainline cut off is what drove this episode.
 
2013-03-18 03:13:02 PM  

maggoo: A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights.  Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.


I came to say this. Very well put.
 
2013-03-18 03:13:33 PM  

Master Sphincter: he will claim insanity and get it.


The common myth is that an insanity plea will get you off.  The reality, however, is that an insanity plea just sends you to a mental ward, a place that can actually be worse than prison.
 
2013-03-18 03:14:08 PM  

Great Janitor: Great, another rapist for CNN to weep over.


I don't get it.
 
2013-03-18 03:16:25 PM  
There has to be some sort of genetic problem here.
 
2013-03-18 03:17:19 PM  
i.dailymail.co.ukView Full Size
img.youtube.comView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 03:17:34 PM  
He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.
 
2013-03-18 03:17:43 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Great Janitor: Great, another rapist for CNN to weep over.

I don't get it.


I was referring to an article here on Fark from this morning where CNN anchors were more distraught over the sentences that two rapists received from gang raping an unconscious woman than over the actual rape itself.
 
2013-03-18 03:18:05 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Great Janitor: Great, another rapist for CNN to weep over.

I don't get it.


there was a story about 2 high school football players from Ohio that raped an unconscious 16 year old girl.

Guilty verdicts came down to both of the young men.

CNN spent a good portion of time lamenting how these young men's lives were going to be ruined as a result of the conviction.
 
2013-03-18 03:18:22 PM  

RatOmeter: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Police unsure how a convicted sex offender, who was taken into custody after being charged with murdering a woman and raping her ten year old daughter, could show up to his first hearing with a broken nose alive.

/Seriously though, cops shouldn't be able to beat people up, and "charged" isn't "convicted"

He *was* convicted of possession of child porn previously, thus a "convicted sex offender".  It's all right there in TFA.


On second read, I guess the article did not say he was convicted on the porn charge.
 
2013-03-18 03:18:26 PM  

maggoo: A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights.  Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.


I don't live in jail. I'm OK with it not being that civilized. QQ more for the kiddy diddler/killer
 
2013-03-18 03:18:33 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Damn man, I wonder if getting his child pron mainline cut off is what drove this episode.


I think it had more to do with his inability to find employement because of the "OMG won't somebody think of the children mass hysteria that has gripped this country"
 
2013-03-18 03:18:59 PM  

Great Janitor: Master Sphincter: he will claim insanity and get it.

The common myth is that an insanity plea will get you off.  The reality, however, is that an insanity plea just sends you to a mental ward, a place that can actually be worse than prison.


Insanity pleas are entered in about 1% of felony cases and succeed about 25% of the time.
 
2013-03-18 03:19:27 PM  

DerPups: for those that DRTFA, the 5-0 didn't do it, the general pop did...


We can't be bothered with all of your fancy reading, we have opinions and the world needs to know(Fark that perv, they'll finish him off in General Population after his conviction
 
2013-03-18 03:20:29 PM  

Warlordtrooper: HotWingConspiracy: Damn man, I wonder if getting his child pron mainline cut off is what drove this episode.

I think it had more to do with his inability to find employement because of the "OMG won't somebody think of the children mass hysteria that has gripped this country"


Well yes, idle hands are the devil's playground and all that.

Though I tend to just smoke more weed when I'm idle, not rape children.
 
2013-03-18 03:20:31 PM  
That dude won't last 10 minutes at a penitentiary.
 
2013-03-18 03:20:55 PM  
I think we should put him back in gen pop and see if the other prisoners have learned their lesson.
 
2013-03-18 03:21:40 PM  

Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.


I don't think it's a problem that exists just to those on the sex offender list.  But part of a bigger problem.  I have a neighbor who is a convicted felon for possession of pot.  That's his only crime.  He hasn't had a job since the conviction because employers don't want to hire felons.

Things like felonies and registration lists manage to continually punish people long after they've served their time, and either abolish the lists or say that a person who's committed a crime on X nature must forever be in prison.  Not this bullshiat half way punishment of "You're free, but you have to remain on a list and subject to visitations, not being able to live in certain areas, etc, etc, etc..."
 
2013-03-18 03:21:59 PM  
They arrested Herbert Kornfeld from the Onion??

o.onionstatic.comView Full Size
 
i.dailymail.co.ukView Full Size


(Keep your S off his desk!!!   http://www.theonion.com/articles/keep-your-farking-shiat-off-my-desk,​1 6 508/
 
2013-03-18 03:22:34 PM  

Digitalstrange: I don't live in jail. I'm OK with it not being that civilized. QQ more for the kiddy diddler/killer


I think it's good that we have the taboo personally; it permits people who are naturally vicous to have an outlet upon which they can vent their viciousness and be socially lauded for it.
 
2013-03-18 03:23:03 PM  

whistleridge: maggoo: A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights.  Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.

I came to say this. Very well put.


I hate that excuse. That's YOUR version of a civilized society.

I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.

/wrongful conviction is really the only reason I'm anti-death penalty
 
2013-03-18 03:23:09 PM  

Digitalstrange: I don't live in jail. I'm OK with it not being that civilized. QQ more for the kiddy diddler/killer.


I find it curious how people in western democracies are ALL about due process and protection of rights, until someone goes to jail for something they personally don't care for, and then it's RELEASE THE RAPE TRAIN!!

Because no police officer, judge, jury, or DA has EVER gotten it wrong. There's just no question, so the extra-judicial punishment that is not just a violation of the law but is also a violation of their civil and human rights becomes not just acceptable, but desired, right?

/ unless it's YOU
 
2013-03-18 03:23:12 PM  

Great Janitor: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

According to TFA, it wasn't the police who did it, it was apparently fellow prisoners.  Though there does seem to be an issue with them allowing him into the public holding cell.

He raped a girl and murdered her mother.  Don't guard this farker, don't put any effort into protecting him.  Let his fellow inmates bound him and rape him as he did to his victim.  That's the least he deserves.


The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor.  Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody.  But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.
 
2013-03-18 03:23:24 PM  
Getting through that repetitive article was painful
 
2013-03-18 03:23:40 PM  
I'm failing to see the problem here. He got a speedy trial before a jury of his peers, not so?

Whar the Constitutional question...WHAR!?
 
2013-03-18 03:24:05 PM  
holy farking shiat, what a gutwrenching story.

/live outside syracuse, and somehow didn't hear about this
 
2013-03-18 03:24:06 PM  

Jae0o0: NOT how I expected the guy to look at all. Wow.


Dude looks as though he was born with FAS.
 
2013-03-18 03:24:19 PM  

pag1107: That dude won't last 10 minutes at a penitentiary.


I certainly hope so. A 10yo girl? I hope it's the most painful, degrading, miserable rape filled 10 minutes possible. Preferably also involving fire.
 
2013-03-18 03:24:24 PM  

Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.


I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter.  His not being able to find work should have no bearing on his inability to not kill and rape.
 
2013-03-18 03:25:36 PM  
Hope he gets the Dahmer treatment.
 
2013-03-18 03:25:48 PM  

Bonanza Jellybean: holy farking shiat, what a gutwrenching story.

/live outside syracuse, and somehow didn't hear about this


Don't believe everything you read on the internet.... especially from the Daily Mail.
 
2013-03-18 03:25:51 PM  

Lollipop165: I hate that excuse. That's YOUR version of a civilized society.

I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.


Sigh....

Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.


"He who does battle with monsters needs to watch out lest he in the process become a monster himself. And if you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss will stare right back at you. "
 
2013-03-18 03:26:14 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 03:27:03 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Great Janitor: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

According to TFA, it wasn't the police who did it, it was apparently fellow prisoners.  Though there does seem to be an issue with them allowing him into the public holding cell.

He raped a girl and murdered her mother.  Don't guard this farker, don't put any effort into protecting him.  Let his fellow inmates bound him and rape him as he did to his victim.  That's the least he deserves.

The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor.  Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody.  But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.


It's not blood lust on my part.  It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both.  As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within  ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother.  How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him?  Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?
 
2013-03-18 03:27:12 PM  

Lollipop165: I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.


In your realm, would the conviction of any crime result in a similar legal banishment, or only the more grievous crimes?

/ You were convicted of jaywalking... anyone may kill you with impunity!
 
2013-03-18 03:28:14 PM  

Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.

So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.


Yes we can, but it should be in the broader context of prisoner reform...not one sick dude no one in their right mind feels any sympathy for.
 
2013-03-18 03:28:26 PM  
Is there a particular reason the article includes a picture of a guy pressing his face up against a pane of glass?
 
2013-03-18 03:28:45 PM  
i.dailymail.co.ukView Full Size


So ronery.
 
2013-03-18 03:29:44 PM  

nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.


It happened in jail.  Other inmates do not look kindly on "chomos"  Bottom of the totem pole.  He's lucky they didn't kill him.

/soon
 
2013-03-18 03:30:52 PM  
i.dailymail.co.ukView Full Size


sportsblogs.star-telegram.comView Full Size


/nip it in the bud, ange
 
2013-03-18 03:30:54 PM  

ChipNASA: I bet he doesn't last the month......


No inmate would go near that. Most likely end up dead in the back of the kitchen or something.
 
2013-03-18 03:30:56 PM  

Caffandtranqs: Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.

I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter.  His not being able to find work should have no bearing on his inability to not kill and rape.


If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to.  I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not.  But these people on these lists have no options.  They can't support themselves because they can't get a job  they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do.  They lash out back at the society that shuns them.  Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Pretending a problem doesn't exists doesn't make it go away.  I'm interesting in fixing the problem not just ignoring it.

Great Janitor: It's not blood lust on my part.  It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both.  As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within  ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother.  How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him?  Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?


That is not how justice works.  That is how vengeance works and there is a huge difference between the two.
 
2013-03-18 03:31:43 PM  

maggoo: A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights.  Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.


I'm ok with it, Bucky.
 
2013-03-18 03:32:22 PM  

FarkinHostile: Lollipop165: I hate that excuse. That's YOUR version of a civilized society.

I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.

Sigh....

Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.


"He who does battle with monsters needs to watch out lest he in the process become a monster himself. And if you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss will stare right back at you. "


"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory" - Da Vinci

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Lollipop165: I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.

In your realm, would the conviction of any crime result in a similar legal banishment, or only the more grievous crimes?

/ You were convicted of jaywalking... anyone may kill you with impunity!


Let's get off the slippery slope shall we? Jaywalking is not the same as carjacking someone with the intent of murdering a mother and raping a child.
 
2013-03-18 03:32:49 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: cig-mkr: So jail / prison isn't a nice place to be ?

People who have't been convicted should not be treated as if they have been found guilty.


Like that Zimmerman thing in Florida.???
 
2013-03-18 03:35:44 PM  

Lollipop165: Let's get off the slippery slope shall we? Jaywalking is not the same as carjacking someone with the intent of murdering a mother and raping a child.


What if I just carjack someone but don't rape or kill anybody?  Could I then be hunted for sport in a coliseum by vigilantes riding panthers?
 
2013-03-18 03:35:55 PM  
How do you catch a guy with 100GB of child porn on his computer, and then set him free on society?  fark that.  Put a bullet in his farking head.  If you wouldn't be willing to leave someone alone in a room with your kid, don't give them the opportunity to harm other children.
 
2013-03-18 03:36:02 PM  

echomike23: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 306x423][img.youtube.com image 480x360]


omg that's creepy
 
2013-03-18 03:36:25 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Caffandtranqs: Warlordtrooper: If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to.  I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not.  But these people on these lists have no options.  They can't support themselves because they can't get a job  they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do.  They lash out back at the society that shuns them.  Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Pretending a problem doesn't exists doesn't make it go away.  I'm interesting in fixing the problem not just ignoring it.


The sex offender registry is a good example of our society's unwillingness to properly deal with mental health issues.  Hey, this guy wants to diddle kids, throw him on this list that publicly shames him.

You make a valid point but, to me, it seems to be part of a bigger problem.
 
2013-03-18 03:36:40 PM  

Warlordtrooper: HotWingConspiracy: Damn man, I wonder if getting his child pron mainline cut off is what drove this episode.

I think it had more to do with his inability to find employement because of the "OMG won't somebody think of the children mass hysteria that has gripped this country"


Yeah, why wouldn't anyone want to hire this guy?

I am currently unemployed. I overeat and masturbate a lot. Never occurred to me to go out and rape little kids.
 
2013-03-18 03:36:58 PM  

Great Janitor: The common myth is that an insanity plea will get you off. The reality, however, is that an insanity plea just sends you to a mental ward, a place that can actually be worse than prison.


Also, there is no set date where you can get out.  And since it's relatively difficult to even get a court to accept an insanity plea, the attorneys have to work hard to convince everyone their client is insane. As such, the sentence is often longer, or life.
 
2013-03-18 03:37:31 PM  

Great Janitor: Warlordtrooper: Great Janitor: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

According to TFA, it wasn't the police who did it, it was apparently fellow prisoners.  Though there does seem to be an issue with them allowing him into the public holding cell.

He raped a girl and murdered her mother.  Don't guard this farker, don't put any effort into protecting him.  Let his fellow inmates bound him and rape him as he did to his victim.  That's the least he deserves.

The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor.  Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody.  But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.

It's not blood lust on my part.  It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both.  As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within  ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother.  How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him?  Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?


Plenty of people deserve torture and unending horrors.

But who deserves to have a torturer in their mirror? Or even next door?
 
2013-03-18 03:37:42 PM  

KingKauff: His face kept slamming into the cops fist


Not the cops. The other inmates.
 
2013-03-18 03:37:54 PM  

maggoo: A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights.  Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.


He was in jail.  A place where they put people who have demonstrated an inability to follow the rules of a civilized society.  I'm fine living in a civilized society, but then again, I don't kill women and rape little girls.
 
2013-03-18 03:38:01 PM  
Are they sure this had something to do with his arrest?  That it wasn't just the same beating he has received every day since he entered school, just for looking like that?
 
2013-03-18 03:38:41 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Caffandtranqs: Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.

I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter.  His not being able to find work should have no bearing on his inability to not kill and rape.

If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to.  I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not.  But these people on these lists have no options.  They can't support themselves because they can't get a job  they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do.  They lash out back at the society that shuns them.  Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Pretending a problem doesn't exists doesn't make it go away.  I'm interesting in fixing the problem not just ignoring it.

Great Janitor: It's not blood lust on my part.  It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both.  As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within  ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother.  How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him?  Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?

That is not how justice works.  That is how vengeance works and there is a huge difference between the two.


By that reasoning, it would have made more sense for the guy to go on a mass murdering spree if he was so pissed off at society.  He didn't.  He's a farking pedophile who broke his ankle bracelet off so he could go molest some kid.  He probably killed mom because she was standing in the way of him doing it.  There are insatiably sick predators in this world.  Accept it.
 
2013-03-18 03:38:43 PM  

serpent_sky: Great Janitor: The common myth is that an insanity plea will get you off. The reality, however, is that an insanity plea just sends you to a mental ward, a place that can actually be worse than prison.

Also, there is no set date where you can get out.  And since it's relatively difficult to even get a court to accept an insanity plea, the attorneys have to work hard to convince everyone their client is insane. As such, the sentence is often longer, or life.


I was under the impression that the point of an insanity plea is that the only other option is life in jail, no parole. I could be totally wrong, but isn't that why Charlie Manson keeps on getting parole hearings? (of course no one will let him out but that's another story)
 
2013-03-18 03:39:24 PM  

Digitalstrange: I am currently unemployed. I overeat and masturbate a lot. Never occurred to me to go out and rape little kids.


Get some *LUBE* my man........Oh......you said...."overeat"........I thought it said "OVERHEAT"........
/nevermind.
 
2013-03-18 03:39:58 PM  

Caffandtranqs: I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter.


The word "allegedly" is important. Keep in mind, for this type of crime, he falls into the category of "usual suspects". He'd probably be arrested after that crime even if there was nothing else to tie him to the event besides his history.
 
2013-03-18 03:40:36 PM  

Warlordtrooper: If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to.  I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not.  But these people on these lists have no options.  They can't support themselves because they can't get a job  they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do.  They lash out back at the society that shuns them.  Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.


He wasn't on the lists yet. He got arrested for having over 100 gigs of child porn. THEN he lost his job. Then he murdered the mom, and raped the girl.

You know, I can understand that some of the people on the list get screwed because of it, but this guy's a monster.
As a parent, I don't want him tortured. I just want him dead.
 
2013-03-18 03:40:44 PM  
A whole lot of people in here need to RTFA. The cops didn't do this. The inmates of the jail did. He was in an open holding area. He raped a kid. 'Nuff said.
 
2013-03-18 03:41:23 PM  

mootmah: [wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net image 630x472]


That's awesome.
 
2013-03-18 03:42:53 PM  

Caffandtranqs: Warlordtrooper: Caffandtranqs: Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.

I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter.  His not being able to find work should have no bearing on his inability to not kill and rape.

If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to.  I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not.  But these people on these lists have no options.  They can't support themselves because they can't get a job  they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do.  They lash out back at the society that shuns them.  Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Pretending a problem doesn't exists doesn't make it go away.  I'm interesting in fixing the problem not just ignoring it.

Great Janitor: It's not blood lust on my part.  It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both.  As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within  ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother.  How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him?  Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?

That is not how justice works.  That is how vengeance works and there is a huge difference between the two.

By that reasoning, it would have made more sense for the guy to go on a mass murdering spree if he was so pissed off at society.  ...


By That reasoning, this guy should not live in a reasonable society so it's OUR responsibility to hunt his ass down like a pack of rabid zombies with pitchforks, repeatedly stab him while he cries for mercy and then we should repeatedly sodomize him with flaming torches while salting and pissing in his wounds......slowly.....
Accept it.
 
2013-03-18 03:43:03 PM  
Warlordtrooper:

Great Janitor: It's not blood lust on my part.  It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both.  As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within  ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother.  How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him?  Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?

That is not how justice works.  That is how vengeance works and there is a huge difference between the two.


Vengeance is I was wronged, now I am going to seek what I view to be justice without going through the law.  Justice is using the law to punish someone for their crimes.  If I get robbed, vengeance is me finding the person who robbed me, busting down his door, stealing back my stuff and taking his instead.  Justice is the courts saying that he is guilty of robbing me and must return my stuff and pay for damages.

A justice system that allows for a prisoner like this man to be protected from harm isn't really justice.  It's almost an insult to his victims that he will forever be protected by the state from someone doing to him what he did to them.

The entire idea of locking people away for years is wrong.  What good comes from it?  People go to prison for any number of charges, non-violent and violent, and they get released, they aren't rehabilitated because that's not part of the punishment process, many go back to prison, many who get released have the stigma of being an ex-con following them for their entire lives combined with not being apart of society.  Why not look into other forms of punishment?
 
2013-03-18 03:43:32 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Great Janitor: Great, another rapist for CNN to weep over.

I don't get it.


Likely a reference to this thread.
 
2013-03-18 03:44:48 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Cagey B: DerPups: for those that DRTFA, the 5-0 didn't do it, the general pop did...

Yes. Because he was put into custody with other prisoners, against established procedure. Wonder how that happened.

Paperwork mixup.  Jailers thought he was in for littering & creating a nuisance.


Well, in their defense he does look a bit OWSy.  Isn't it time we got serious about euthanizing people so ugly they wouldn't even be able to pay for sex.  They are just ticking time bombs.
 
2013-03-18 03:46:15 PM  

Killer Cars: Is there a particular reason the article includes a picture of a guy pressing his face up against a pane of glass?


He getting ready to lick it?
 
2013-03-18 03:46:19 PM  

boozehat: Bonanza Jellybean: holy farking shiat, what a gutwrenching story.

/live outside syracuse, and somehow didn't hear about this

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.... especially from the Daily Mail.


This one is all over the local news. It's real. And yes, I'm annoyed that the Daily Fail is the link that was approved, when it's all over the farking LOCAL news.
 
2013-03-18 03:47:38 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: We need to a place to segregate criminals like this from the rest of society, humanely, and with little to no expense for the rest of us. What if we just gave them part of North Dakota, an arable part, and just let them have at it. Yeah, it would be difficult, but surely there is a way to make it work. Give trustees police power / tasers maybe, with the rest working the fields? Hollywood tells us it would descend into Escape from New York, but I'm not so sure that would happen. Australia turned out ok.


It's been suggested before:

covers.openlibrary.orgView Full Size


/ hotter than the valley
// one of the better game modules I've read
 
2013-03-18 03:48:01 PM  

Lollipop165: "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory" - Da Vinci


Fine, I'll speak my mind instead of quoting that very, very apt quote.

IMNSHO, you are morally NO better then the guy who rapes and tortures when you fantasize/wish/hope rape and torture on someone, no matter how deserving they are. You are cut from the same cloth, you just haven't acted on  it....yet. Under the right circumstances?  Make no mistake, you are closer to being them then you want to believe when you indulge such base thinking.

Bloodlust fantasies. Just like they have and act on. That is all it is. Smarten up.
 
2013-03-18 03:48:31 PM  

This text is now purple: Caffandtranqs: I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter.

The word "allegedly" is important. Keep in mind, for this type of crime, he falls into the category of "usual suspects". He'd probably be arrested after that crime even if there was nothing else to tie him to the event besides his history.


He would have been a suspect, yes.  Arrested without evidence?  Doubtful.  The judge would toss the case out as soon as it hit his desk, then talk smack to the cops for arresting and charging someone without having any evidence.
 
2013-03-18 03:49:30 PM  

Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.


Conviction records are public. And a criminal background checks are standard for retail employment. And retail sales probably isnt compatible with child pornography. Im not convinced that being or not being on a registry made any difference in his employability the slightest.
 
2013-03-18 03:50:56 PM  

ChipNASA: Caffandtranqs: Warlordtrooper: Caffandtranqs: Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.

I could get behind you on that if his latest crime had been a bank robbery or something of the sort, not murdering a woman and raping her daughter.  His not being able to find work should have no bearing on his inability to not kill and rape.

If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to.  I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not.  But these people on these lists have no options.  They can't support themselves because they can't get a job  they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do.  They lash out back at the society that shuns them.  Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Pretending a problem doesn't exists doesn't make it go away.  I'm interesting in fixing the problem not just ignoring it.

Great Janitor: It's not blood lust on my part.  It's that he took two people, a mother and daughter, bound them both.  As the mother watched (I assume, but definitely within  ear shot) he raped the girl, then with the girl still in the car, he stabbed the mother.  How does this man deserve anything other than to have the same done to him?  Shouldn't he get the chance to experience what he put his victims through?

That is not how justice works.  That is how vengeance works and there is a huge difference between the two.

By that reasoning, it would have made more sense for the guy to go on a mass murdering spree if he was so pissed of ...


Umm, WTF are you talking about?  They found him near the scene of the crime!  The kid probably pointed his ugly ass out in the line up after the rape kit was taken.
 
2013-03-18 03:51:15 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Police unsure how a convicted sex offender, who was taken into custody after being charged with murdering a woman and raping her ten year old daughter, could show up to his first hearing with a broken nose alive.

/Seriously though, cops shouldn't be able to beat people up, and "charged" isn't "convicted"


Did you RTFA? Are you 12? Are you a moron? Are you a meme-spouting Useful Idiot?

The cops probably didn't touch him. It was the other inmates. And, BTW, segregation from the general population means squat. There are ways.
 
2013-03-18 03:51:17 PM  
Inmates shoulda finished the job.  Wimps!
 
2013-03-18 03:51:43 PM  

Great Janitor: Rapmaster2000: Great Janitor: Great, another rapist for CNN to weep over.

I don't get it.

I was referring to an article here on Fark from this morning where CNN anchors were more distraught over the sentences that two rapists received from gang raping an unconscious woman girl than over the actual rape itself.


Fixed for accuracy.

/16 is still a kid
 
2013-03-18 03:51:47 PM  

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Could I then be hunted for sport in a coliseum by vigilantes riding panthers?


Obviously not.
Wild felines HATE it when you climb on their backs.
/don't ask me how I know.
//100% death penalty for murderers.
 
2013-03-18 03:53:21 PM  
We can agree "innocent until proven guilty".  Can we also agree that "The State" is responsible for it's prisoners safety.  Which leads to this "what if".

What if the alleged douche bag decided to parade around other inmates while showing his humanity by dry humping a pillow while screaming his victims names.

I think the prison population might offer feedback.
  
s18.postimage.orgView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 03:54:04 PM  
*twitches*

You know, there's a point where people just shouldn't be coddled. What should be done to this...waste...goes above and beyond what any jail could do, gen pop or otherwise. Hell, you'll probably have to go all the way back to the days of the Roman Empire to find an appropriate punishment.
 
2013-03-18 03:54:14 PM  

FarkinHostile: IMNSHO, you are morally NO better then the guy who rapes and tortures when you fantasize/wish/hope rape and torture on someone, no matter how deserving they are.


No, I'm pretty sure I'm better than someone who has committed a murder and raped a 10-year-old.  Despite your objection.
 
2013-03-18 03:54:15 PM  

FarkinHostile: Lollipop165: "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory" - Da Vinci

Fine, I'll speak my mind instead of quoting that very, very apt quote.

IMNSHO, you are morally NO better then the guy who rapes and tortures when you fantasize/wish/hope rape and torture on someone, no matter how deserving they are. You are cut from the same cloth, you just haven't acted on  it....yet. Under the right circumstances?  Make no mistake, you are closer to being them then you want to believe when you indulge such base thinking.

Bloodlust fantasies. Just like they have and act on. That is all it is. Smarten up.


I disagree. I have no desire to hurt this man nor for him to feel pain. Its just that I am apathetic to his situation. I lack empathy for him because in my opinion, he's turned in his human card.

Far different than bloodlust fantasies.
 
2013-03-18 03:54:28 PM  

Publikwerks: Warlordtrooper: If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to.  I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not.  But these people on these lists have no options.  They can't support themselves because they can't get a job  they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do.  They lash out back at the society that shuns them.  Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

He wasn't on the lists yet. He got arrested for having over 100 gigs of child porn. THEN he lost his job. Then he murdered the mom, and raped the girl.

You know, I can understand that some of the people on the list get screwed because of it, but this guy's a monster.
As a parent, I don't want him tortured. I just want him dead.


I'm not saying the guys a monster,  He deserves to rot in jail for the rest of his life.  What isn't acceptable is vigilante justice
 
2013-03-18 03:57:36 PM  
Knows something about jail beatings...

biography.comView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 03:58:14 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Publikwerks: Warlordtrooper: If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to.  I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not.  But these people on these lists have no options.  They can't support themselves because they can't get a job  they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do.  They lash out back at the society that shuns them.  Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

He wasn't on the lists yet. He got arrested for having over 100 gigs of child porn. THEN he lost his job. Then he murdered the mom, and raped the girl.

You know, I can understand that some of the people on the list get screwed because of it, but this guy's a monster.
As a parent, I don't want him tortured. I just want him dead.

I'm not saying the guys a monster,  He deserves to rot in jail for the rest of his life.  What isn't acceptable is vigilante justice


Err I mean to say that I'm not saying the guys not a monster.
 
2013-03-18 03:58:17 PM  

Warlordtrooper: If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to. I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not. But these people on these lists have no options. They can't support themselves because they can't get a job they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do. They lash out back at the society that shuns them. Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.


Actually, that's exactly what you are saying. Perhaps you're wording it wrong.
 
2013-03-18 03:58:22 PM  
Yanks_RSJ:

FarkinHostile: IMNSHO, you are morally NO better then the guy who rapes and tortures when you fantasize/wish/hope rape and torture on someone, no matter how deserving they are.

No, I'm pretty sure I'm better than someone who has committed a murder and raped a 10-year-old.  Despite your objection.
-Yanks_RSJ

Don't know if Yanks is a lawyer and IRS auditor.  If he is...then FarkinHolstile is on to something.  Else, FarkinHostile argument is flacid and dangling in the air like cut off micro USB cable.
 
2013-03-18 03:58:29 PM  

Digitalstrange: Warlordtrooper: HotWingConspiracy: Damn man, I wonder if getting his child pron mainline cut off is what drove this episode.

I think it had more to do with his inability to find employement because of the "OMG won't somebody think of the children mass hysteria that has gripped this country"

Yeah, why wouldn't anyone want to hire this guy?

I am currently unemployed. I overeat and masturbate a lot. Never occurred to me to go out and rape little kids.


See, Fark is not entirely useless. You now have a new activity to put on your to do list.
 
2013-03-18 04:00:33 PM  

FarkinHostile: Lollipop165: "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory" - Da Vinci

Fine, I'll speak my mind instead of quoting that very, very apt quote.

IMNSHO, you are morally NO better then the guy who rapes and tortures when you fantasize/wish/hope rape and torture on someone, no matter how deserving they are. You are cut from the same cloth, you just haven't acted on  it....yet. Under the right circumstances?  Make no mistake, you are closer to being them then you want to believe when you indulge such base thinking.

Bloodlust fantasies. Just like they have and act on. That is all it is. Smarten up.


So thinking about something is the same as actually doing it?  I've thought about a lot of illegal things, but I've never done them.  Probably because I'm a sane, rational human being.  But I'm no better than a murderer?  By your logic, 90% of Fark commenters should be locked up.

/thought crimes FTW
 
2013-03-18 04:02:54 PM  

Great Janitor: Rapmaster2000: Great Janitor: Great, another rapist for CNN to weep over.

I don't get it.

I was referring to an article here on Fark from this morning where CNN anchors were more distraught over the sentences that two rapists received from gang raping an unconscious woman than over the actual rape itself.


I see.  I had not heard that.
 
2013-03-18 04:04:05 PM  
the general population of the US is as far removed and out of touch with the realities of the broken justice/penal system in this country as their leaders are from the general population.


and the cycle continues.
 
2013-03-18 04:04:31 PM  

Lollipop165: I disagree. I have no desire to hurt this man nor for him to feel pain. Its just that I am apathetic to his situation. I lack empathy for him because in my opinion, he's turned in his human card.

Far different than bloodlust fantasies.



A lack of empathy is a sign of a sociopath. A lack of empathy is why he raped a little girl and killed a woman. A lack of empathy is the path to evil, and all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

 

'Yanks_RSJ: No, I'm pretty sure I'm better than someone who has committed a murder and raped a 10-year-old. Despite your objection.



You are as moral as he is, you just don't have the right opportunity to  act on it. But keep going over in your head about him being brutally raped and tortured in prison. Maybe you'll get lucky and have a chance to act out your fantasies someday.
 
2013-03-18 04:06:15 PM  

Carousel Beast: Warlordtrooper: If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to. I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not. But these people on these lists have no options. They can't support themselves because they can't get a job they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do. They lash out back at the society that shuns them. Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Actually, that's exactly what you are saying. Perhaps you're wording it wrong.


No that's not what I'm saying.  If you back a wounded animal into a corner where it has no escape from what do you suspect its going to do?  There are many people who deserve to be in jail.  Like this guy, that doesn't mean he deserves to be subjected to "prison justice"  Rape is a crime which is part of why he's going to spend the rest of his life in jail.  The fact that a rape happens in jail doesn't all of a sudden make it legal.
 
2013-03-18 04:06:19 PM  

studs up: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

FTFA:He was assaulted by other inmates at the Onondaga County Justice Center during his first day in jail

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294676/David-Renz-Sex-offend e r-killed-librarian-raped-daughter-10-beaten-day-jail.html#ixzz2Nv5g6uJ x

Just jumped out in front of that as fast as you could, huh?
/Not a fan of police myself, typically


Did you read the whole thing?   Sheriff Kevin Walsh told the newspaper he was looking into why Renz was put into a holding area with other prisoners - not the usual practice in holding someone facing such accusations.

Looks like the cops let the inmates dole out the vigilante justice after all, doesn't it?
 
2013-03-18 04:06:44 PM  

blatz514: Knows something about jail beatings...

biography.comView Full Size


That photo always creeps me out. Not in the usual way, though. It creeps me out because Dalmer was a dead-ringer for a cousin of mine who a couple of decades ago did time for molesting a couple of kids, and is now subject to Megan's Law. He stays scrupulously clean...says he NEVER wants to go back to jail.

/not that I doubt him on that subject
 
2013-03-18 04:09:12 PM  

Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.


People who have been convicted of possessing child pornography belong on a sex offender registry.
 
m00
2013-03-18 04:09:43 PM  
Photos of Renz, too, are being withheld for fearthey could 'pollute the investigation,' New York State Police Captain Mark Lincoln said in a Friday morning press conference.

...yeah about that...

i.dailymail.co.ukView Full Size

Suspect: David Renz, 29, has been charged with murder, rape and kidnapping in connection to a deadly carjacking or a woman and her daughter
 
2013-03-18 04:10:09 PM  

FarkinHostile: Lollipop165: I disagree. I have no desire to hurt this man nor for him to feel pain. Its just that I am apathetic to his situation. I lack empathy for him because in my opinion, he's turned in his human card.

Far different than bloodlust fantasies.


A lack of empathy is a sign of a sociopath. A lack of empathy is why he raped a little girl and killed a woman. A lack of empathy is the path to evil, and all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

 'Yanks_RSJ: No, I'm pretty sure I'm better than someone who has committed a murder and raped a 10-year-old. Despite your objection.


You are as moral as he is, you just don't have the right opportunity to  act on it. But keep going over in your head about him being brutally raped and tortured in prison. Maybe you'll get lucky and have a chance to act out your fantasies someday.


It's time to play...  Idiot or Troll?
 
2013-03-18 04:10:57 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Publikwerks: Warlordtrooper: If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to.  I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not.  But these people on these lists have no options.  They can't support themselves because they can't get a job  they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do.  They lash out back at the society that shuns them.  Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

He wasn't on the lists yet. He got arrested for having over 100 gigs of child porn. THEN he lost his job. Then he murdered the mom, and raped the girl.

You know, I can understand that some of the people on the list get screwed because of it, but this guy's a monster.
As a parent, I don't want him tortured. I just want him dead.

I'm not saying the guys a monster,  He deserves to rot in jail for the rest of his life.  What isn't acceptable is vigilante justice


I used to believe in beating someone like this up or getting them no matter what. But then I remember that I thought Gary Condit was a murderer and it turned out he was 100% innocent. Since then I reserve my thoughts until all evidence is heard.
 
2013-03-18 04:11:34 PM  

andychrist420: So thinking about something is the same as actually doing it? I've thought about a lot of illegal things, but I've never done them. Probably because I'm a sane, rational human being. But I'm no better than a murderer? By your logic, 90% of Fark commenters should be locked up.


My whole thing about these threads is the rape/torture fantasies that so many people come in here and post, and somehow think of themselves as good people because the people they want raped/tortured were bad people. Well, I got news for you, when you want someone, anyone to be raped and tortured, you are NOT a good person. You are indulging in a horrible, base thought process, just like the maggot who did this crime, and are staring into the abyss.

Civilized people don't want/fantasize about torture/rape. Period.
 
2013-03-18 04:11:43 PM  
Warlordtrooper: If you push a person far enough they will do anything they have to. I'm not saying that murder and rape is justified because its not. But these people on these lists have no options. They can't support themselves because they can't get a job they have no friends and so they get pissed off and guess what they do. They lash out back at the society that shuns them. Its quite possible that if somebody had given this man a job, a 10 year old would have never been raped and her mother would still be alive.

Do you really want to employ, work with, live next door to, be friends with or interact in any way with a person who likes to beat off to children getting raped? I certainly don't and I don't think that that makes me a bad person.

Child porn is a bit more than "OMG, think of the children!" hysteria as you posted earlier. It is actual children being filmed as they are raped and abused for the sexual gratification of people who have absolutely no empathy/conscience.
 
2013-03-18 04:12:01 PM  

FarkinHostile: You are as moral as he is, you just don't have the right opportunity to  act on it. But keep going over in your head about him being brutally raped and tortured in prison. Maybe you'll get lucky and have a chance to act out your fantasies someday.


Congrats on that Sociology degree.
 
2013-03-18 04:12:28 PM  

FarkinHostile: words


People who judge and/or lecture other people on the internet are literally Hitler Stalin Pol Pot evil tantamount to serial killers
 
2013-03-18 04:12:57 PM  
I am actually surprised. I have a friend who works in a prison and they take this shiat pretty seriously. Offenders that are high up on the 'likely to get the shiat kicked out of them' are usually put into  ad seg.
 
2013-03-18 04:13:29 PM  

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Lollipop165: Let's get off the slippery slope shall we? Jaywalking is not the same as carjacking someone with the intent of murdering a mother and raping a child.

What if I just carjack someone but don't rape or kill anybody?  Could I then be hunted for sport in a coliseum by vigilantes riding panthers?


Only if I get to sell pay-per-view rights...

(I'll give you 10% of profit)
 
2013-03-18 04:13:38 PM  

kg2095: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

Exactly. It indicates a corrupt police force. The sooner they start testing wannabe cops for psychopathy the better.


You'd sound a lot smarter if you RTFA.
 
2013-03-18 04:13:46 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: I am actually surprised. I have a friend who works in a prison and they take this shiat pretty seriously. Offenders that are high up on the 'likely to get the shiat kicked out of them' are usually put into  ad seg.


The article mentioned that. Chances are the cops sorta "looked the other way". I wouldn't be surprised if the killer sued the cops.
 
2013-03-18 04:15:23 PM  

Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.


I agree with you. Not about the rape apologist part.

I don't know of a good solution. But I know this "solution" doesn't work. Sucks all around. Giggidy.
 
2013-03-18 04:16:02 PM  

ChipNASA: [i.imgur.com image 500x348]


Is that the opposite of "Kill them all Davy"
 
2013-03-18 04:16:05 PM  

FarkinHostile: andychrist420: So thinking about something is the same as actually doing it? I've thought about a lot of illegal things, but I've never done them. Probably because I'm a sane, rational human being. But I'm no better than a murderer? By your logic, 90% of Fark commenters should be locked up.

My whole thing about these threads is the rape/torture fantasies that so many people come in here and post, and somehow think of themselves as good people because the people they want raped/tortured were bad people. Well, I got news for you, when you want someone, anyone to be raped and tortured, you are NOT a good person. You are indulging in a horrible, base thought process, just like the maggot who did this crime, and are staring into the abyss.

Civilized people don't want/fantasize about torture/rape. Period.


They can, and sometimes do.  What makes them civilized is that they do not actually do it.  They're called fantasies for a reason.
 
2013-03-18 04:16:26 PM  
I have written a script that parses each cop thread, death penalty thread, and child abuse thread and collates each poster by commonality and original comment, so they can easily be compared. I'm working on an algorithm to weight sentiment by people that hate cops, hate the death penalty, and yet also approve of torturing accused criminals.

Soon, I will be able and ready to confront you all with the contents of your own souls, and you will not be amused. You will be terrified by the abyss within ourselves
 
2013-03-18 04:16:28 PM  
The whole point is not what this guy is accused/convicted of.  It's that we don't want cops/inmates to become some sort of pseudo court where one is tried and convicted by the mere accusation( or even worse rumor mill).

Keep in mind that people are wrongly accused all of the time (I highly doubt this guy is anything but 100% guilty, and vile).
 
m00
2013-03-18 04:18:25 PM  

Tak the Hideous New Girl: Do you really want to employ, work with, live next door to, be friends with or interact in any way with a person who likes to beat off to children getting raped? I certainly don't and I don't think that that makes me a bad person.


Unless you execute them, they have to live and work somewhere. If they're a danger, don't let them out. But if you let them out, don't treat them like lepers. It's not helping. I believe after someone serves out their court-appointed time, they deserve to be free.

Also... I guarantee you that you already work with / live next door to / interact with people that do all sorts of sick stuff in private with their door closed that you would disapprove of, if you knew about.
 
2013-03-18 04:18:37 PM  

nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.


RTFA much? This was inmate "justice".
 
2013-03-18 04:19:00 PM  

whistleridge: maggoo: A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights.  Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.

I came to say this. Very well put.


Okay, there are at least three sane people in there that give a shiat about the rules.

[john_goodman.jpg]
 
2013-03-18 04:19:53 PM  

Lollipop165: whistleridge: maggoo: A civilized society recognizes that even despicable criminals have rights.  Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts.

Unless you are ok not living in a civilized society.

I came to say this. Very well put.

I hate that excuse. That's YOUR version of a civilized society.

I don't particularly care if he is tortured, so long as he is proved guilty first. He's no longer a part of society nor the benefits of it; he gave up those rights when he killed/raped out of cold blood.

/wrongful conviction is really the only reason I'm anti-death penalty


So you would be satisfied if someone was convicted and then tortured...what happens if they were wrongly convicted? You're still happy with the torture part?
 
2013-03-18 04:20:05 PM  

willfullyobscure: Soon, I will be able and ready to confront you all with the contents of your own souls, and you will not be amused. You will be terrified by the abyss within ourselves


Tell me, do you read Sutter Cane
 
2013-03-18 04:20:21 PM  

andychrist420: They can, and sometimes do. What makes them civilized is that they do not actually do it. They're called fantasies for a reason.



No, they don't. The only reason they don't act on it is self interest because they don't want to get punished and under the right circumstances would act out those fantasies.

Just like he did.
 
m00
2013-03-18 04:21:13 PM  

Warlordtrooper: The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor.  Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody.  But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.


We also apparently live in a world where the mere accusation by police by a crime = you are 100% guilty, and deserved be raped to death by convicts.
 
2013-03-18 04:21:38 PM  

FarkinHostile: andychrist420: So thinking about something is the same as actually doing it? I've thought about a lot of illegal things, but I've never done them. Probably because I'm a sane, rational human being. But I'm no better than a murderer? By your logic, 90% of Fark commenters should be locked up.

My whole thing about these threads is the rape/torture fantasies that so many people come in here and post, and somehow think of themselves as good people because the people they want raped/tortured were bad people. Well, I got news for you, when you want someone, anyone to be raped and tortured, you are NOT a good person. You are indulging in a horrible, base thought process, just like the maggot who did this crime, and are staring into the abyss.

Civilized people don't want/fantasize about torture/rape. Period.


If that were true, then horror movies wouldn't be so successful.  Movies like 'Human Centipede' and 'Saw' would have been bombs.  There wouldn't be an entire fetish section of the porn industry dedicated for BDSM, torture and rape fantasies.

Humans do like torture.  We like to watch a movie and see the big bad get beaten badly to the point of broken bones and blood everywhere before he finally dies.  To say that civilized people don't enjoy torture or fantasize about it is wrong.  Everyone does at some point.  Some are brave enough to admit it, others think about it and never admit to it.  And there is nothing wrong with it.  To have your boss be a pain in the ass to you for a week or more and then fantasize about torturing him or her in many ways is a healthy release and is natural.
 
2013-03-18 04:22:22 PM  

andychrist420: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

It happened in jail.  Other inmates do not look kindly on "chomos"  Bottom of the totem pole.  He's lucky they didn't kill him.

/soon


was my thought.  STPD prolly trying to save the state a few bucks wishing the holding tank would finish it.  Half way through the night, someone got scared they would.
You know that's the story.  Someone will be on "Paid Administrative Leave" for a month or two and that's it.
NOW there's gonna be a trial with all the trimmings.  Court appointed was likely out getting drunk because someone had called him before the official call.
Yeah, lived in Syracuse.  Don't remember anything like this though just remember all that FARKIN' SNOW.
 
2013-03-18 04:22:35 PM  

m00: Photos of Renz, too, are being withheld for fearthey could 'pollute the investigation,' New York State Police Captain Mark Lincoln said in a Friday morning press conference.

...yeah about that...

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 306x423]
Suspect: David Renz, 29, has been charged with murder, rape and kidnapping in connection to a deadly carjacking or a woman and her daughter


That was his high school yearbook photo
 
2013-03-18 04:23:48 PM  

m00: Warlordtrooper: The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor.  Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody.  But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.

We also apparently live in a world where the mere accusation by police by a crime = you are 100% guilty, and deserved be raped to death by convicts.


Where is there even the slightest chance that he is innocent???
 
2013-03-18 04:24:09 PM  

m00: Unless you execute them, they have to live and work somewhere. If they're a danger, don't let them out. But if you let them out, don't treat them like lepers. It's not helping. I believe after someone serves out their court-appointed time, they deserve to be free.


That's the thing. If they cannot be rehabilitated in any way and have to be on a list that ostracizes them from society forever, WHY ARE THEY LETTING THEM OUT? If the odds are so great that they will offend again, and there is little, if anything, we can do about it and they are a clear danger to society, then they should be locked up for life and that's it.

No, I do not want to live next to a child molester or a rapist.  At the same time, I also don't want to live next to someone who killed his last neighbors (prior to prison). Or someone who has broken into a bunch of homes in his lifetime. Or someone who abuses and kills cats. Or really, next to anyone who has committed major crimes.  But if they did their time and are safe to be back on the streets (which is the idea of prison, right? Rehabilitation?) then they deserve as much of a chance as anyone else does.

I think rape is the worst thing anyone can possibly do. If they are very likely to reoffend, keep them locked up for life where they can't hurt anyone. If they're not likely to do so, give them a shot at something of a normal life post-prison.
 
2013-03-18 04:24:10 PM  
This guy wasn't raped. He was roughed up a bit. And not all that badly, really. Now that may be entirely because of his alleged crime. But it also could've been because he looked funny. Jail inmates tend to be a bit hot tempered, and don't need much of an excuse to fark someone up. They call it Reckless Eyeballing: "He looked at me so I had to kick his ass. Totally his fault."

If this had been a kiddie diddler beat down, I suspect he'd be worse off than a broken nose.
 
2013-03-18 04:24:12 PM  

willfullyobscure: I have written a script that parses each cop thread, death penalty thread, and child abuse thread and collates each poster by commonality and original comment, so they can easily be compared. I'm working on an algorithm to weight sentiment by people that hate cops, hate the death penalty, and yet also approve of torturing accused criminals.

Soon, I will be able and ready to confront you all with the contents of your own souls, and you will not be amused. You will be terrified by the abyss within ourselves


Are you a computational linguist?
 
2013-03-18 04:24:15 PM  

willfullyobscure: I have written a script that parses each cop thread, death penalty thread, and child abuse thread and collates each poster by commonality and original comment, so they can easily be compared. I'm working on an algorithm to weight sentiment by people that hate cops, hate the death penalty, and yet also approve of torturing accused criminals.

Soon, I will be able and ready to confront you all with the contents of your own souls, and you will not be amused. You will be terrified by the abyss within ourselves


You need a better hobby.
 
2013-03-18 04:25:24 PM  

Warlordtrooper: He lost his job at a supermarket, moved in with his mother and hadn't been able to find other work after his arrest, according to court documents.


So can we actually have an honest discussion about the unintended consequences of things like sex offender registries and how it can lead to more crime or should I just surrender to the fact that I'll be called a rape apologists for bringing up flaws in the system.


WHY DO YOU LIKE IT WHEN WOMEN ARE RAPED!?!?!

I see your point. I'd like to extend that point and add that we need to either reform what we consider to be a felony. Its the mark of the beast for most employers. They shouldn't be so easy to get.
 
2013-03-18 04:25:32 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: Tell me, do you read Sutter Cane


This is not reality.... NOT REALITY!

/ this is reality.
 
2013-03-18 04:26:01 PM  

andychrist420: FarkinHostile: Lollipop165: I disagree. I have no desire to hurt this man nor for him to feel pain. Its just that I am apathetic to his situation. I lack empathy for him because in my opinion, he's turned in his human card.

Far different than bloodlust fantasies.


A lack of empathy is a sign of a sociopath. A lack of empathy is why he raped a little girl and killed a woman. A lack of empathy is the path to evil, and all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

 'Yanks_RSJ: No, I'm pretty sure I'm better than someone who has committed a murder and raped a 10-year-old. Despite your objection.


You are as moral as he is, you just don't have the right opportunity to  act on it. But keep going over in your head about him being brutally raped and tortured in prison. Maybe you'll get lucky and have a chance to act out your fantasies someday.

It's time to play...  Idiot or Troll?


Consider third option "insane".
 
2013-03-18 04:27:28 PM  
Did they get the right guy?
 
2013-03-18 04:27:32 PM  

Great Janitor: Humans do like torture. We like to watch a movie and see the big bad get beaten badly to the point of broken bones and blood everywhere before he finally dies. To say that civilized people don't enjoy torture or fantasize about it is wrong. Everyone does at some point. Some are brave enough to admit it, others think about it and never admit to it. And there is nothing wrong with it. To have your boss be a pain in the ass to you for a week or more and then fantasize about torturing him or her in many ways is a healthy release and is natural.


This line of discussion is well fine and good, but the minute someone brings up that one movie of which we do not speak of that has a babby, I swear to god they are going to get pistol whipped
 
2013-03-18 04:30:46 PM  

FarkinHostile: andychrist420: They can, and sometimes do. What makes them civilized is that they do not actually do it. They're called fantasies for a reason.


No, they don't. The only reason they don't act on it is self interest because they don't want to get punished and under the right circumstances would act out those fantasies.

Just like he did.


Most civilized people also have something called a conscience, and a sense of right and wrong.  I'll repeat, they're called fantasies for a reason.
 
2013-03-18 04:32:07 PM  
May know something about how the chap's nose got that way...

3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 04:32:27 PM  
www.twominuteshate.com
 
2013-03-18 04:32:39 PM  
It's amazing that there are some people on Fark who think we should have some sympathy for a guy that killed a woman and raped her 10-ten old daughter, and have no concern at all for the victims.  Note that not one of the persons crying over this scumbag have said a peep about his victims.
 
2013-03-18 04:35:01 PM  

Jae0o0: NOT how I expected the guy to look at all. Wow.


He looks like Marilyn Manson without makeup.
 
2013-03-18 04:35:23 PM  

Great Janitor: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

According to TFA, it wasn't the police who did it, it was apparently fellow prisoners.  Though there does seem to be an issue with them allowing him into the public holding cell.

He raped a girl and murdered her mother.  Don't guard this farker, don't put any effort into protecting him.  Let his fellow inmates bound him and rape him as he did to his victim.  That's the least he deserves.


ONCE CONVICTED
 
2013-03-18 04:35:38 PM  

Great Janitor: If that were true, then horror movies wouldn't be so successful. Movies like 'Human Centipede' and 'Saw' would have been bombs. There wouldn't be an entire fetish section of the porn industry dedicated for BDSM, torture and rape fantasies.



Guess what? The popularity of such garbage doesn't make it civilized, it shows how uncivilized "we" actually are. Sure like to think highly of ourselves, though.

Humans do like torture.

No.

We like to watch a movie and see the big bad get beaten badly to the point of broken bones and blood everywhere before he finally dies. To say that civilized people don't enjoy torture or fantasize about it is wrong.

Again, that exposes how base many of us really are, and is not a affirmation of our civility.

Everyone does at some point. Some are brave enough to admit it, others think about it and never admit to it. And there is nothing wrong with it.


Sure, I've had fantasies of doing bad shiat to people, but I REJECT them, I do not indulge them, and I certainly don't try to justify them. That human capacity for evil is something we need to fight, not encourage.


To have your boss be a pain in the ass to you for a week or more and then fantasize about torturing him or her in many ways is a healthy release and is natural.

Please. Punch in the face, sure, but torture in many ways? No, not healthy. If you need to fantasize about farking torturing your boss to blow off steam, you need to find a new job. As farked up as I am I have never fantasized about methodically inflicting horrible pain on someone. Punch them out? Yup. Torture/rape? No.
 
m00
2013-03-18 04:35:58 PM  

Great Janitor: m00: Warlordtrooper: The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor.  Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody.  But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.

We also apparently live in a world where the mere accusation by police by a crime = you are 100% guilty, and deserved be raped to death by convicts.

Where is there even the slightest chance that he is innocent???


Um, we have a judicial system with the premise of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." Not "innocent, unless we reeeeeeally think he did it, then it's okay to skip the trial and go right to the ritual rape punishment"
 
2013-03-18 04:36:11 PM  

FarkinHostile: andychrist420: They can, and sometimes do. What makes them civilized is that they do not actually do it. They're called fantasies for a reason.


No, they don't. The only reason they don't act on it is self interest because they don't want to get punished and under the right circumstances would act out those fantasies.

Just like he did.


Just curious.  When did you realize you were omniscient?
 
2013-03-18 04:36:16 PM  
How the arresting LEOs did not just take him deeper into the woods (one way) is amazing to me.
That's why they do that job and not me.

If not for the 'wrongfully convicted' arguement, I'd be for swift execution of all violent sex offenders and/or murderers.

Let's not be meek at have our inmates do our dirty work. Let's also not keep allowing the all too often story of "guy does sex crime, gets set free, does something worse"
Society needs to attempt something new to rid ourselves of this issue. Almost anything would be way farking better than what we're doing about it now.
 
2013-03-18 04:36:47 PM  
**Post-script to my post**:

YMMV

/and it was SO tough typing that and keeping a straight face....

//as the father of a ten year old girl, I say the f*cker should burn
 
2013-03-18 04:37:18 PM  

Amusement: Consider third option "insane".


Mmmmm. The guy speaking out against torture and rape is the insane one.

You're closer to the mark then the others, but not for the reason you think.
 
2013-03-18 04:37:31 PM  
Gotta love Fark.  Where murdering child molesters are held in higher regard than cops.
 
2013-03-18 04:38:47 PM  
I think he should fall a little more in the jail cell.  Gravity, it has a tendency to sting, with it's fists and all.
 
2013-03-18 04:38:48 PM  

CheekyMonkey: Just curious. When did you realize you were omniscient?



Right after I ate those mushrooms.
 
2013-03-18 04:39:54 PM  
FTA:  'I have a broken nose,' he told his lawyer, according to The Post-Standard in Syracus.


/Clearly this wasn't obvious to his lawyer at first look.
 
das
2013-03-18 04:40:21 PM  
Boats.
 
2013-03-18 04:40:36 PM  

Tak the Hideous New Girl: Do you really want to employ, work with, live next door to, be friends with or interact in any way with a person who likes to beat off to children getting raped? I certainly don't and I don't think that that makes me a bad person.


Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.
 
2013-03-18 04:43:53 PM  

FarkinHostile: Amusement: Consider third option "insane".

Mmmmm. The guy speaking out against torture and rape is the insane one.

You're closer to the mark then the others, but not for the reason you think.


No, it really seems like you are the one who is suppressing the urges, as you assume that "The only reason they don't act on it is self interest because they don't want to get punished and under the right circumstances would act out those fantasies".

I exceedingly doubt anyone of these farkers who say "Meh, he got what he deserves" would actively try to hurt someone even out of vengeance. But your assumptions about other people's motives tell me far more about what's going on in FarkinHostile's mind if that is your understanding of humanity.
 
2013-03-18 04:44:09 PM  

andychrist420: FarkinHostile: andychrist420: They can, and sometimes do. What makes them civilized is that they do not actually do it. They're called fantasies for a reason.


No, they don't. The only reason they don't act on it is self interest because they don't want to get punished and under the right circumstances would act out those fantasies.

Just like he did.

Most civilized people also have something called a conscience, and a sense of right and wrong.  I'll repeat, they're called fantasies for a reason.


I think we can all agree that you're both wrong...to think that there is only one reason why different people do not act out their fantasies. There are different levels of thinking. Some people may abstain because they do not want to be punished by some authority like a boss, or a police officer. Some abstain because they feel that they will have to answer to a higher power. Some actually have compassion and do not want to hurt anyone. There are many reasons why people choose to do things.
 
2013-03-18 04:45:26 PM  

FarkinHostile: Lollipop165: I disagree. I have no desire to hurt this man nor for him to feel pain. Its just that I am apathetic to his situation. I lack empathy for him because in my opinion, he's turned in his human card.

Far different than bloodlust fantasies.


A lack of empathy is a sign of a sociopath. A lack of empathy is why he raped a little girl and killed a woman. A lack of empathy is the path to evil, and all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.


A generalised and widespread lack of empathy, yes. A specific lack of empathy for a particular person as a result of their actions is not. The difference is the word `because`. It`s like depression. If you are just depressed whatever happens then you are clinically depressed, if you are depressed because your wife left you or your mother died, that is normal. Lollipop has a lack of empathy SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS GUY BECAUSE the guy seems to be a total waste of protoplasm. If lollipop just suffered from a lack of empathy for ANYONE then you would be correct to attribute the collapse of society to them.

But that is not the case. You are projecting or a troll but correct is not something you are.
 
2013-03-18 04:47:14 PM  

kendelrio: **Post-script to my post**:

YMMV

/and it was SO tough typing that and keeping a straight face....

//as the father of a ten year old girl, I say the f*cker should burn


ONCE CONVICTED
 
2013-03-18 04:47:45 PM  

This text is now purple: Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.


I sort of agree, because you're right and nobody is going to be hurt by what someone beats off to in their house.

BUT... if they are looking for kiddie porn, they help create the market for it, and children are hurt by kiddie porn. Badly. So it's a strange line because no, nobody is being hurt by someone watching it. But there was a lot of hurt in the creation process of what they are watching and if there is a market for it, more people will be hurt in while people supply said market.
 
2013-03-18 04:47:46 PM  

This text is now purple: Tak the Hideous New Girl: Do you really want to employ, work with, live next door to, be friends with or interact in any way with a person who likes to beat off to children getting raped? I certainly don't and I don't think that that makes me a bad person.

Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.


So even though it creates demand for continued child exploitation, and child trafficking, youre ok with it as long as you aren't inconvenienced. How enlightened of you.
 
2013-03-18 04:49:17 PM  
he's a goner
rape a 10yo=death
 
2013-03-18 04:49:27 PM  

FarkinHostile: andychrist420: They can, and sometimes do. What makes them civilized is that they do not actually do it. They're called fantasies for a reason.


No, they don't. The only reason they don't act on it is self interest because they don't want to get punished and under the right circumstances would act out those fantasies.

Just like he did.


Just because you imagine it, it does not mean you will be able to act out upon it, even with no consequence afterwards. Like the internet tough guy theorem- Just because you say you're a tough guy, doesn't make it actually so.
 
2013-03-18 04:49:35 PM  

FarkinHostile: Great Janitor: If that were true, then horror movies wouldn't be so successful. Movies like 'Human Centipede' and 'Saw' would have been bombs. There wouldn't be an entire fetish section of the porn industry dedicated for BDSM, torture and rape fantasies.


Guess what? The popularity of such garbage doesn't make it civilized, it shows how uncivilized "we" actually are. Sure like to think highly of ourselves, though.


I'm going to disagree with you.  I've known several people who were into the whole bondage and S and M thing.  They were normal, healthy people who got off on either being tortured or being the one who tortures.  You don't approve of it so you have the opinion that it's not civilized.  The fact that it's done behind closed doors between consenting adults proves otherwise.

Humans do like torture.

No.


Yes.  Again, if we didn't like torture, the horror movie genre wouldn't be as popular as it is.

We like to watch a movie and see the big bad get beaten badly to the point of broken bones and blood everywhere before he finally dies. To say that civilized people don't enjoy torture or fantasize about it is wrong.

Again, that exposes how base many of us really are, and is not a affirmation of our civility.


I have to disagree.  I believe that we can have movies like this, have them be as popular as they are, and NOT have a people all over the nation emulate what's seen in the movies shows that we are civilized to the point that we can have such movies but still lead normal lives.  

Everyone does at some point. Some are brave enough to admit it, others think about it and never admit to it. And there is nothing wrong with it.


Sure, I've had fantasies of doing bad shiat to people, but I REJECT them, I do not indulge them, and I certainly don't try to justify them. That human capacity for evil is something we need to fight, not encourage.


Evil is in action, not in thought.  The moment we start to say that X fantasy is evil and needs to be fought leads to thought crimes.  


To have your boss be a pain in the ass to you for a week or more and then fantasize about torturing him or her in many ways is a healthy release and is natural.

Please. Punch in the face, sure, but torture in many ways? No, not healthy. If you need to fantasize about farking torturing your boss to blow off steam, you need to find a new job. As farked up as I am I have never fantasized about methodically inflicting horrible pain on someone. Punch them out? Yup. Torture/rape? No.


I've had those thoughts, and quite honestly, I wasn't the only one who's had them.  My first job out of high school was a retail job with a bailer in the stockroom.  We had a co-manager who was such a dick that it was common place to wonder what it would be like to toss his fat ass into the bailer and what sounds would we hear as the press lowered onto him, and would we just run it and let it go, or stop it, pull it back and then restart it a few times.  It helped us get through the shiatty times he put us through.  And yes, we all eventually ended up leaving.  Some before he was fired, some after.
 
2013-03-18 04:50:07 PM  
Assuming this guy actually did what there seems to be pretty credible evidence that he did, I think it's really cute that people think there is any way in which "justice" could possibly be even remotely served in this case.  There is no possible universe in which a punishment determined by a civilized people could ever equal the horror inflicted upon that woman and her daughter.

The best part is that no matter how much this story bothers you, worse things are inflicted by humans on other humans the world over, every day. All day.

This happy thought brought to you by the fact that humans suck.
 
2013-03-18 04:50:19 PM  

Lollipop165: FarkinHostile: Amusement: Consider third option "insane".

Mmmmm. The guy speaking out against torture and rape is the insane one.

You're closer to the mark then the others, but not for the reason you think.

No, it really seems like you are the one who is suppressing the urges, as you assume that "The only reason they don't act on it is self interest because they don't want to get punished and under the right circumstances would act out those fantasies".

I exceedingly doubt anyone of these farkers who say "Meh, he got what he deserves" would actively try to hurt someone even out of vengeance. But your assumptions about other people's motives tell me far more about what's going on in FarkinHostile's mind if that is your understanding of humanity.


It`s like saying "Well, we all have goat fantasies, we just don`t actually go out and fark a goat"
 
2013-03-18 04:50:54 PM  

serpent_sky: This text is now purple: Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.

I sort of agree, because you're right and nobody is going to be hurt by what someone beats off to in their house.

BUT... if they are looking for kiddie porn, they help create the market for it, and children are hurt by kiddie porn. Badly. So it's a strange line because no, nobody is being hurt by someone watching it. But there was a lot of hurt in the creation process of what they are watching and if there is a market for it, more people will be hurt in while people supply said market.


Long time no see serpent sky :-)

And yes, I agree with you about the "creation" process of pedophilia. So am I wrong then to assume that drawing acts of pedophilia is not illegal? I'd assume it isn't.
 
2013-03-18 04:51:11 PM  

FarkinHostile: Amusement: Consider third option "insane".

Mmmmm. The guy speaking out against torture and rape is the insane one.

You're closer to the mark then the others, but not for the reason you think.


But you're not really saying that.  You said that a murdering rapist is no less moral than anyone else in society, they just haven't had the opportunity to commit the crime yet.  Yeah, I'd go with insane too.

/Thinking/saying something is not the same as doing it
//Where are you when the bloodlust is against the cops?
 
2013-03-18 04:51:37 PM  

dready zim: kendelrio: **Post-script to my post**:

YMMV

/and it was SO tough typing that and keeping a straight face....

//as the father of a ten year old girl, I say the f*cker should burn

ONCE CONVICTED


Absolutely once convicted.
 
2013-03-18 04:51:58 PM  

m00: Great Janitor: m00: Warlordtrooper: The sad part is that this statement was done without any sense of Irony by Great Janitor.  Saying rape is a horrible crime that nobody deserves then wishing it upon somebody.  But of course the Internet tough guys have to have their blood lust filled.

We also apparently live in a world where the mere accusation by police by a crime = you are 100% guilty, and deserved be raped to death by convicts.

Where is there even the slightest chance that he is innocent???

Um, we have a judicial system with the premise of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." Not "innocent, unless we reeeeeeally think he did it, then it's okay to skip the trial and go right to the ritual rape punishment"


I agree that we do have a thing about how a jury must convict you before you are guilty.  But this guy did it.  It's impossible to read this story and think for a moment he's as innocent of this rape and murder as you and I are.
 
2013-03-18 04:52:25 PM  
His high-school prom pic?

wtf.ccView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 04:54:24 PM  
Due process people, it stops the police just killing YOU even if you are innocent.

If this guy doesn`t get it then you don`t and I don`t.

I want it and you want it so he has to get it.

That`s how it works no matter how big a mob you have and whatever he has or hasn`t done.
 
2013-03-18 04:54:25 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 04:57:05 PM  
I know a ton of people in the Syracuse area, including law enforcement and how come this is the first time I'm hearing about this?

From a British newspaper, that's nickname involves failing..........
 
2013-03-18 04:57:27 PM  

Lollipop165: serpent_sky: This text is now purple: Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.

I sort of agree, because you're right and nobody is going to be hurt by what someone beats off to in their house.

BUT... if they are looking for kiddie porn, they help create the market for it, and children are hurt by kiddie porn. Badly. So it's a strange line because no, nobody is being hurt by someone watching it. But there was a lot of hurt in the creation process of what they are watching and if there is a market for it, more people will be hurt in while people supply said market.

Long time no see serpent sky :-)

And yes, I agree with you about the "creation" process of pedophilia. So am I wrong then to assume that drawing acts of pedophilia is not illegal? I'd assume it isn't.


Or having adults dress like children and make porn? That must be legal with this rational also.

What about if these people were naked?
resources2.news.com.auView Full Size


It gets very grey...
 
m00
2013-03-18 04:57:38 PM  

dready zim: It`s like saying "Well, we all have goat fantasies, we just don`t actually go out and fark a goat"


Is that...how it is? :p
 
2013-03-18 04:58:02 PM  

Lollipop165: serpent_sky: This text is now purple: Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.

I sort of agree, because you're right and nobody is going to be hurt by what someone beats off to in their house.

BUT... if they are looking for kiddie porn, they help create the market for it, and children are hurt by kiddie porn. Badly. So it's a strange line because no, nobody is being hurt by someone watching it. But there was a lot of hurt in the creation process of what they are watching and if there is a market for it, more people will be hurt in while people supply said market.

Long time no see serpent sky :-)

And yes, I agree with you about the "creation" process of pedophilia. So am I wrong then to assume that drawing acts of pedophilia is not illegal? I'd assume it isn't.


I've been around... probably not as much as I used to be. Life and all... :)

I'm not sure of the legality of drawings of pedophilia.  Odds are, yes, they're legal, but you probably wouldn't want to be caught with them, regardless, or be the person testing just how legal it is to possess or distribute said drawings.  Sort of like one of my friends who always makes a big deal about how it's legal in our state for passengers in cars to have open containers, so long as the driver is sober. I'm sure it is. That said, I don't want to be the person pulled over with three passengers drinking beers in my car even if I haven't had a drink myself in over a month.
 
2013-03-18 04:59:26 PM  
ferretman: His high-school prom pic?

I've seen that pic a few times here in Fark.  Is that a real pic of a school dance/prom event or some sort of photo art work?
 
2013-03-18 04:59:29 PM  
American Justice: Innocent until proven guilty... unless he is weird looking.
 
2013-03-18 04:59:37 PM  

dready zim: Due process people, it stops the police just killing YOU even if you are innocent.

If this guy doesn`t get it then you don`t and I don`t.

I want it and you want it so he has to get it.

That`s how it works no matter how big a mob you have and whatever he has or hasn`t done.


Convicts tend to have their own definition of "due process"  Take it up with them.
 
2013-03-18 05:00:42 PM  

Caffandtranqs: willfullyobscure: I have written a script that parses each cop thread, death penalty thread, and child abuse thread and collates each poster by commonality and original comment, so they can easily be compared. I'm working on an algorithm to weight sentiment by people that hate cops, hate the death penalty, and yet also approve of torturing accused criminals.

Soon, I will be able and ready to confront you all with the contents of your own souls, and you will not be amused. You will be terrified by the abyss within ourselves

Are you a computational linguist?


Don't have to be. I use cloud computing.
 
2013-03-18 05:01:49 PM  

MyKingdomForYourHorse: I am actually surprised. I have a friend who works in a prison and they take this shiat pretty seriously. Offenders that are high up on the 'likely to get the shiat kicked out of them' are usually put into  ad seg.


He was in jail, not prison (and there are vast differences between the two), but as the article stated he was put in a holding cell with other jail inmates, which violated jail procedures. Because of the crimes he was charged with, he was supposed to be in protective custody.
 
2013-03-18 05:02:05 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: I know a ton of people in the Syracuse area, including law enforcement and how come this is the first time I'm hearing about this?

From a British newspaper, that's nickname involves failing..........


Don't know. It's been the lead on every news channel and in every paper since it happened.

/watching it now
 
2013-03-18 05:02:53 PM  

Lollipop165: serpent_sky: This text is now purple: Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.

I sort of agree, because you're right and nobody is going to be hurt by what someone beats off to in their house.

BUT... if they are looking for kiddie porn, they help create the market for it, and children are hurt by kiddie porn. Badly. So it's a strange line because no, nobody is being hurt by someone watching it. But there was a lot of hurt in the creation process of what they are watching and if there is a market for it, more people will be hurt in while people supply said market.

Long time no see serpent sky :-)

And yes, I agree with you about the "creation" process of pedophilia. So am I wrong then to assume that drawing acts of pedophilia is not illegal? I'd assume it isn't.


Its been banned and judicially overturned a couple times.

Right now it is ambiguously illegal, but no one has been charged for having drawings without also being caught with actual child porn.
 
m00
2013-03-18 05:05:11 PM  

serpent_sky: I'm not sure of the legality of drawings of pedophilia.  Odds are, yes, they're legal, but you probably wouldn't want to be caught with them, regardless, or be the person testing just how legal it is to possess or distribute said drawings.  Sort of like one of my friends who always makes a big deal about how it's legal in our state for passengers in cars to have open containers, so long as the driver is sober. I'm sure it is. That said, I don't want to be the person pulled over with three passengers drinking beers in my car even if I haven't had a drink myself in over a month.


You should read about the guy who was caught with a Little Lupe (I think that's her name) tape. A professional porn star 18 at the time of the filming, prosecution swore she was underage, got "expert witnesses" to come in and testify she was underage based on the video. Guy was done for. Then he contacted the actress and thankfully she was a good person and came into the courtroom and said "yes, I was 18."

But, I'm sure some farkers would have him prison raped anyway.
 
2013-03-18 05:05:16 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: He was in jail, not prison (and there are vast differences between the two), but as the article stated he was put in a holding cell with other jail inmates, which violated jail procedures. Because of the crimes he was charged with, he was supposed to be in protective custody.


Ahh well that clears that up then actually. Jails are usually run by morons.
 
2013-03-18 05:05:26 PM  

Lollipop165: /wrongful conviction is really the only reason I'm anti-death penalty


That's true, but if the evidence is undisputable, then I'm sort of indifferent - one one hand, a dead man doesnt re-offend.  On the other hand, why should he get the easy way out?  Let his ass get tortured long and slow for life in prison where he will not have a single friend in a world of sadists on both sides of the bars.  I say let the victims' family decide.
 
2013-03-18 05:06:21 PM  

dready zim: Or having adults dress like children and make porn? That must be legal with this rational also.


I would say that is legal, and possibly more so than the drawings, since everyone watching the porn (if it's through a real studio with the disclaimer that everyone is over 18 and the documents are on file per law etc etc) goes in knowing the people dressed/acting younger are adults.  There's a huge difference between role play and fantasy between consenting adults and actual child porn or depictions of child porn. In this case, it's not child porn, and it can't be child porn because they're all adults.

Though I stand by my guess that the drawings and likely legal but you don't want to be the test case of said legality. And that your life won't be much fun if you're found/known to have or distribute said drawings.  It feels like it's solidly in a grey area because it would be aimed at titillating someone interested in actual children and not adult role play or fantasy, which is what the porn example is.
 
2013-03-18 05:08:12 PM  

Lollipop165: FarkinHostile: Amusement: Consider third option "insane".

Mmmmm. The guy speaking out against torture and rape is the insane one.

You're closer to the mark then the others, but not for the reason you think.

No, it really seems like you are the one who is suppressing the urges, as you assume that "The only reason they don't act on it is self interest because they don't want to get punished and under the right circumstances would act out those fantasies".

I exceedingly doubt anyone of these farkers who say "Meh, he got what he deserves" would actively try to hurt someone even out of vengeance. But your assumptions about other people's motives tell me far more about what's going on in FarkinHostile's mind if that is your understanding of humanity.



Ah, the old "You have a strong opinion on this topic, therefore you must be secretly into it." Or, in the Old English "Methinks the Lady doth protest too much." I'm somewhat surprised no one has called me a secret child molester, as that is related to the thread topic, and if you don't froth at the mouth to have a child molester brutally raped in prison, why, you must be one yourself!

I'm not the one talking about how awesome it would be for someone to get tortured, sister. I'm not the one salivating thinking about him getting ganged raped in prison. I'm the one speaking out against it. I speak out against torture and rape, I spoke out against it when the US did it in the war, and I'll speak out against it whenever I hear someone talk about it in glowing terms. Perhaps I'll get lucky and someone will see the error of indulging in such puke thinking. Perhaps not, but fark it, I'll say what I feel.
 
2013-03-18 05:08:35 PM  

m00: Tak the Hideous New Girl: Do you really want to employ, work with, live next door to, be friends with or interact in any way with a person who likes to beat off to children getting raped? I certainly don't and I don't think that that makes me a bad person.

Unless you execute them, they have to live and work somewhere. If they're a danger, don't let them out. But if you let them out, don't treat them like lepers. It's not helping. I believe after someone serves out their court-appointed time, they deserve to be free.

Also... I guarantee you that you already work with / live next door to / interact with people that do all sorts of sick stuff in private with their door closed that you would disapprove of, if you knew about.


First of all: Nope, I do not have to like/employ/interact with anyone who beats off to raped children. As far as I'm concerned, they are worse than lepers, they made the choice to beat off to raped children.

Second: What percentage of the population do you think engage in "sick stuff" behind closed doors? I don't think it's so high that I have to worry about it on a day to day basis.
 
2013-03-18 05:12:02 PM  

dready zim: If lollipop just suffered from a lack of empathy for ANYONE then you would be correct to attribute the collapse of society to them.


Depersonalization is a very well known way to get people to commit atrocities. Thats how we get 19 year old boys to shoot up villages of "Ragheads". It's how seemingly normal people gassed millions of innocents. They are less then people, and don't deserve to be treated with civility.

Same idea.
 
2013-03-18 05:12:24 PM  

stonicus: American Justice: Innocent until proven guilty... unless he is weird looking.


Yes you are right!  That is what is causing the moral ambiguity and turmoil here....his looks.  Not at all that he allegedly raped a 10 year old girl (probably in front of her mother) and then killed the mother, a crime so heinous and tragic that it may cause people to dissociate..

So to be clear, what is it that YOU care about?
 
2013-03-18 05:14:00 PM  

This text is now purple: Tak the Hideous New Girl: Do you really want to employ, work with, live next door to, be friends with or interact in any way with a person who likes to beat off to children getting raped? I certainly don't and I don't think that that makes me a bad person.

Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.


So you approve of the rape and abuse of children as long as it doesn't affect you personally?

You are vile person.
 
2013-03-18 05:15:29 PM  

LeroyBourne: Was that a before pic?  If anything they were helping him smash it back into place.


Ok. So my thoughts in under 10
 
2013-03-18 05:17:18 PM  

Tak the Hideous New Girl: So you approve of the rape and abuse of children as long as it doesn't affect you personally?

You are vile person.


WelcomeToFark.jpg

/ only because your handle has "New" in it
 
2013-03-18 05:22:09 PM  

Tak the Hideous New Girl: Child porn is a bit more than "OMG, think of the children!" hysteria as you posted earlier. It is actual children being filmed as they are raped and abused for the sexual gratification of people who have absolutely no empathy/conscience.


Depends on the jurisdiction.  In some areas actors 'dressed young' and even outright animation qualifies.

namegoeshere: If this had been a kiddie diddler beat down, I suspect he'd be worse off than a broken nose.


Given his appearance, I'd say that his broken nose was simply from appearing to be a total dork, not his accused crimes.
 
2013-03-18 05:25:30 PM  

FarkinHostile: Lollipop165: FarkinHostile: Amusement: Consider third option "insane".

Mmmmm. The guy speaking out against torture and rape is the insane one.

You're closer to the mark then the others, but not for the reason you think.

No, it really seems like you are the one who is suppressing the urges, as you assume that "The only reason they don't act on it is self interest because they don't want to get punished and under the right circumstances would act out those fantasies".

I exceedingly doubt anyone of these farkers who say "Meh, he got what he deserves" would actively try to hurt someone even out of vengeance. But your assumptions about other people's motives tell me far more about what's going on in FarkinHostile's mind if that is your understanding of humanity.


Ah, the old "You have a strong opinion on this topic, therefore you must be secretly into it." Or, in the Old English "Methinks the Lady doth protest too much." I'm somewhat surprised no one has called me a secret child molester, as that is related to the thread topic, and if you don't froth at the mouth to have a child molester brutally raped in prison, why, you must be one yourself!

I'm not the one talking about how awesome it would be for someone to get tortured, sister. I'm not the one salivating thinking about him getting ganged raped in prison. I'm the one speaking out against it. I speak out against torture and rape, I spoke out against it when the US did it in the war, and I'll speak out against it whenever I hear someone talk about it in glowing terms. Perhaps I'll get lucky and someone will see the error of indulging in such puke thinking. Perhaps not, but fark it, I'll say what I feel.


There's problems with your argument.

#1 - Never once in this thread did I fantasize about hurting him. I'm in the apathetic cart.

#2 - I'm not arguing "Methinks the Lady doth protest too much". I'm arguing that your perception of the reason why people don't do horrific acts says more about your personal understanding of humanity and therefore yourself than it does of any actuality. Your understanding of humanity is that people don't do bad acts only because we fear of being punished. Therefore we are all on the same boat - the murder with Mother Theresa with you and with me - our rages and murderous urges on kept on the inside by a society that is "civilizing" us. As your argument goes.

My understanding of humanity is we don't do bad acts because it is not in our natures to hurt other people - we are the builders of society, not the product of it -  which is why someone who brutally kills and rapes I no longer consider as worthy of the same respect I give the rest of humanity. A person who does evil acts is sub-human as they do not act in a humane nature.

I still have no desire to hurt those I consider "subhuman". But I do feel apathy when something bad happens to them.
 
2013-03-18 05:29:38 PM  

Great Janitor: I'm going to disagree with you. I've known several people who were into the whole bondage and S and M thing. They were normal, healthy people who got off on either being tortured or being the one who tortures. You don't approve of it so you have the opinion that it's not civilized. The fact that it's done behind closed doors between consenting adults proves otherwise.


Note the bolded parts. That is not torture. Real torture is inflicting pain on an unwilling and non-consenting person. Just as rape play is not real rape, BSDM is not real torture.


Yes.  Again, if we didn't like torture, the horror movie genre wouldn't be as popular as it is.

No, WE don't, some do.

I find it.....interesting....that torture porn reached very high popularity at about the same time Iraq and Afghanistan torture was exposed and debated. Hmmmm.....it's almost as if one fed on the other.


Evil is in action, not in thought.  The moment we start to say that X fantasy is evil and needs to be fought leads to thought crimes.

Are you honestly saying that there are not evil thoughts? You don't think this guy thought about raping someone before he actually did it? First comes the fantasies, then comes the acts.
Don't get silly with the slippery slope thing, I am speaking philosophically, not legally. No one is saying if you fantasize about this guy getting prison raped you should be arrested, I'm saying you sure as hell ain't civilized, nor truly moral.
 
2013-03-18 05:35:41 PM  
 
2013-03-18 05:38:55 PM  

FarkinHostile: Yes. Again, if we didn't like torture, the horror movie genre wouldn't be as popular as it is.

No, WE don't, some do.

I find it.....interesting....that torture porn reached very high popularity at about the same time Iraq and Afghanistan torture was exposed and debated. Hmmmm.....it's almost as if one fed on the other.


There is also an argument that can be made for people who are living lives so bad, that they want and need to see something horrific to feel a little better about their realities.  I speak for myself here, but when my life was bad - I mean, drink two bottles of wine a night until I passed out and hope to not have to wake up in the morning because the emotional and mental abuse I suffered daily was so bad, and I saw no other way out" bad - I watched horror movies like they were going out of style. The more farked up, the better.  If people said it was just awful and unwatchable and horrific, it was the next thing I sought out.

...and then I got out of my situation. Moved. Cleared my head a little. Started dating one of my best friends and got to a happier place.  I honestly have not sat down to a horror movie in ages. I have watched a few on TV when flipping channels - classic stuff like "Halloween" or "Friday the 13th" but there has been nothing making me say "man, can someone PLEASE make 'the Human Centipede part 3'? or "when is the director of "Serbian Film" going to wow us with something new?"  And that's probably a good thing.  But I'd also argue that the really screwy Japanese and European movies I watched during that time gave me some good escape routes for my brain from my life at the time.  Just like, when in the midst of all of this, I would do anything, including working from home, to watch "Special Victims Unit." In a similar way, I <em>needed</em> to see the bad guys put away because I wasn't getting justice in my own life and was being taunted by what happened to me, daily.  It was damned near pathological. how badly I thought I <em>needed</em> that show for that time period.

I'm glad I came out the other side, but there can be some good applications of these sorts of escapes, which is really what all film and television (porn included) are.
 
2013-03-18 05:39:18 PM  
I'm more surprised that people think it's normal to fantasize about torture.  I have never fantasized about torturing someone.  I can't even think of a reason why I would.  It doesn't even make any sense to me.
 
2013-03-18 05:41:05 PM  
Even if this guy is put in protective segragation he still gonna have a tough time. The taunting from near by cells and constant yelling will literally drive this guy insane. Saw it happen once when I had to spend the night in drunk tank. They just threw some meat to the dogs is all.
 
2013-03-18 05:44:41 PM  
Re: 100 gigs of CP.

From the story I read earlier, he had 100 gig of porn, but was only being charged for a couple clearly underage images.

He might have just been downloading in bulk, and hording porn, then got nailed over .0001% of the files being illegal.
 
2013-03-18 05:46:29 PM  
I want to see another pic of him. Because the one we have here looks like he should be given a blue ribbon for being able to tie his shoe,
 
2013-03-18 05:46:45 PM  
Lollipop165:

There's problems with your argument.

#1 - Never once in this thread did I fantasize about hurting him. I'm in the apathetic cart.



Fine, but many here are, and IMNHO, if you were to just not care if he is tortured you are on the wrong path and share in the guilt. Again, all it takes is doing nothing for evil to flourish.


#2 - I'm not arguing "Methinks the Lady doth protest too much". I'm arguing that your perception of the reason why people don't do horrific acts says more about your personal understanding of humanity and therefore yourself than it does of any actuality. Your understanding of humanity is that people don't do bad acts only because we fear of being punished. Therefore we are all on the same boat - the murder with Mother Theresa with you and with me - our rages and murderous urges on kept on the inside by a society that is "civilizing" us. As your argument goes.

You are actually pretty spot on. I do not think humans are inherently "good", and many of our "drives" cause us to act in "Evil" ways. And yes, I do believe the vast majority don't do bad acts only because we fear of being punished. Thus, the whole hell thing, prison, ect. Dro also had a good point, but I don't think there are too many truly good people, as many as there are truly bad people, most are just...people.


My understanding of humanity is we don't do bad acts because it is not in our natures to hurt other people - we are the builders of society, not the product of it -  which is why someone who brutally kills and rapes I no longer consider as worthy of the same respect I give the rest of humanity.

Being a civilized person is not about respect for him, it's about respect for YOU. If all it takes is for someone to do something wrong for us to abandon our principals, well, we never really had any.


A person who does evil acts is sub-human as they do not act in a humane nature.

NO.

You know who else used the "Sub-human" technique?

I still have no desire to hurt those I consider "subhuman". But I do feel apathy when something bad happens to them.

Fine, and I do understand. I don't have much sympathy myself, to be honest. BUT! I still absolutely oppose torture, rape, and anyone advocating/fantasizing them for anyone, regardless of how "Sub-human" they are.

I may not respect him, but I'll sure as hell respect myself.
 
2013-03-18 05:47:18 PM  

FarkinHostile: Great Janitor: I'm going to disagree with you. I've known several people who were into the whole bondage and S and M thing. They were normal, healthy people who got off on either being tortured or being the one who tortures. You don't approve of it so you have the opinion that it's not civilized. The fact that it's done behind closed doors between consenting adults proves otherwise.

Note the bolded parts. That is not torture. Real torture is inflicting pain on an unwilling and non-consenting person. Just as rape play is not real rape, BSDM is not real torture.


Yes.  Again, if we didn't like torture, the horror movie genre wouldn't be as popular as it is.

No, WE don't, some do.

I find it.....interesting....that torture porn reached very high popularity at about the same time Iraq and Afghanistan torture was exposed and debated. Hmmmm.....it's almost as if one fed on the other.


Evil is in action, not in thought.  The moment we start to say that X fantasy is evil and needs to be fought leads to thought crimes.

Are you honestly saying that there are not evil thoughts? You don't think this guy thought about raping someone before he actually did it? First comes the fantasies, then comes the acts.
Don't get silly with the slippery slope thing, I am speaking philosophically, not legally. No one is saying if you fantasize about this guy getting prison raped you should be arrested, I'm saying you sure as hell ain't civilized, nor truly moral.


Once again, for the idiots.  The fact that you don't act out evil thoughts is what makes you civilized and moral.  See, when you actually think about things, lots of farked up things come into your head.  The human brain is weird like that. Or are you saying that the only way to be civilized is to have no "impure" thoughts, ever?

/you should try it sometime
//thinking. It's fun.
 
2013-03-18 05:47:23 PM  

serpent_sky: This text is now purple: Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.

I sort of agree, because you're right and nobody is going to be hurt by what someone beats off to in their house.

BUT... if they are looking for kiddie porn, they help create the market for it, and children are hurt by kiddie porn.


Which kids?

Are there no laws against the exploitation of children? Are children defenseless against rape in our society? Can we not deal with this problem at the level of actual harm, as opposed to that of hypothetical harm?

Or must we postulate what tempts men in their own hearts? Because I suspect we all have some monster to hide, in the eyes of some hypothetical zealot.
 
2013-03-18 05:47:48 PM  
Damnit, UK journalism SUCKS:

He had been previously charged with having child pornography cut an electronic monitoring device off his ankle before carjacking a woman, fatally stabbing her and raping her 10-year-old daughter.

Commas. They're needed.

Renz abducted the school librarian and her daughter as they left a gymnastics class at a mall in the Syracuse suburb of Clay, about 150 miles west of Albany, on Thursday night.

Whatever happened to calling the accused a "suspect"? Say what you will about American Journalism, at least we do that.
 
2013-03-18 05:48:01 PM  

nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.


I understand this, but despite my own cynicism regarding the police, it's just as likely that he did it to himself. A few years ago, police in our fair city settled a massive brutality lawsuit. I don't know the details, but the size of the settlement, something like $400,000, appeared in all the media. Suddenly, the unruly drunks they were scooping out of the gutters were plowing themselves face-first into brick walls in the hopes of winning the cop lottery.

I can certainly see someone whose frontal lobes aren't doing the job deciding that, in the absence of all other avenues of avoidance, indulging in a little self-mutilation might at least prove enough of a hassle to be considered "revenge."
 
2013-03-18 05:50:37 PM  
Ned Stark: Right now it is ambiguously illegal, but no one has been charged for having drawings without also being caught with actual child porn.

In one case I remember it was a previous offender who had been convicted of stuff involving real child porn who was caught Photoshopping adult sex pictures to make one of the parties look like little kids.  He was also convicted, but more of a parole violation.

I imagine that purveyors of *solely* drawn porn aren't high enough on the target list to be pulled in.  Basically, prosecutors KNOW it'd be a nightmare and don't want to bother as long as they have real CP collectors that are comparatively easy cases.
 
2013-03-18 05:51:13 PM  

Tak the Hideous New Girl: As far as I'm concerned, they are worse than lepers


What's so bad about lepers?

I mean, socially. Why being a leper would be bad for you, personally, is obvious.
 
2013-03-18 05:53:53 PM  

Tak the Hideous New Girl: This text is now purple: Tak the Hideous New Girl: Do you really want to employ, work with, live next door to, be friends with or interact in any way with a person who likes to beat off to children getting raped? I certainly don't and I don't think that that makes me a bad person.

Thing is, I don't care what you beat off to. So long as it stays there, it will never affect me.

So you approve of the rape and abuse of children as long as it doesn't affect you personally?

You are vile person.


Nice strawman.

The situation is the social ostracision of a person who likes to beat off to children getting raped. I see no requirement for actual children being involved, considering animation or simulation are often sufficient in the eyes of the law for conviction. What's at issue is the concept, not the execution.
 
2013-03-18 05:54:18 PM  
andychrist420:

Once again, for the idiots.  The fact that you don't act out evil thoughts is what makes you civilized and moral.  See, when you actually think about things, lots of farked up things come into your head.  The human brain is weird like that. Or are you saying that the only way to be civilized is to have no "impure" thoughts, ever?

/you should try it sometime
//thinking. It's fun.


Wow, look at this smug prick.  And he's trying to be funny too.
 
2013-03-18 05:55:53 PM  

peasandcarrots: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

I understand this, but despite my own cynicism regarding the police, it's just as likely that he did it to himself.


This is why you leave the cameras in the "on" position.
 
2013-03-18 05:58:54 PM  

andychrist420: Once again, for the idiots. The fact that you don't act out evil thoughts is what makes you civilized and moral.


Except that for such people, it is little more than a veneer of being civilized, and if conditions were to change, they would show their true colors. Given an consequence-less opportunity, their "Civilization" would be quickly abandoned.

Recommended reading "Lord of the Flies".

See, when you actually think about things, lots of farked up things come into your head. The human brain is weird like that. Or are you saying that the only way to be civilized is to have no "impure" thoughts, ever?


Oh, trust me, I understand having "impure" thoughts. I get it, I truly do. What I am saying is rejecting such base thinking is what makes one civilized, NOT indulging in a violent torture/rape fantasy, just because the guy is a maggot and that somehow makes it ok. It doesn't. It's ALWAYS wrong. Otherwise, this thing you call being civilized? it's just an act.
 
2013-03-18 06:00:36 PM  

This text is now purple: Are there no laws against the exploitation of children? Are children defenseless against rape in our society? Can we not deal with this problem at the level of actual harm, as opposed to that of hypothetical harm?


Yes, there are laws against the exploitation of children.  Unfortunately, the children are often far too scared/brainwashed to say anything about what has been happening to them.
Are they defenseless against rape? Yes, pretty much. Absence of ability to defend oneself against the attacker is essential in rape. In the case of children being raped, the odds of being able to defend oneself are diminished further than in the case of rape against adults. Add in the extremely common mental coercion and the child is very unlikely to defend him/herself in any way.

The actual harm IS the child porn.  There is no hypothetical harm. A child was raped or molested to make said porn. That is real and tangible harm.  I suppose I was speaking a little to hypothetical harm by saying someone who seeks and obtains child porn helps fuel the market, and thus, the creation of this porn... but there's nothing about that which isn't true.  Such a risky business would not exist without a market and a payoff.
 
2013-03-18 06:03:50 PM  

FarkinHostile: IMNSHO, you are morally NO better then the guy who rapes and tortures when you fantasize/wish/hope rape and torture on someone, no matter how deserving they are. You are cut from the same cloth, you just haven't acted on it....yet. Under the right circumstances? Make no mistake, you are closer to being them then you want to believe when you indulge such base thinking.


What guy? I don't see a guy -- i see a farking animal that should have been beaten savagely the first time it acted out but now just needs to be dragged out back and shot.

We are not cut from the same cloth. Under no circumstances will i ever rape a woman. I can understand how i might accidentaly commit something like theft or murder -- but violent rape is so wrong and so purposeful of action that partaking in it is a one way ticket out of humanity and its many protections and platitudes.

I have no desire to hurt those i consider subhuman either -- but that doesn't mean im going to sit there and let a feral dog roam free while my kids play in the yard. It goes out back then it goes in the ground.
 
m00
2013-03-18 06:06:09 PM  

mikefinch: Under no circumstances will i ever rape a woman


We talking "rape" or rape-rape
 
2013-03-18 06:08:46 PM  

serpent_sky: This text is now purple: Are there no laws against the exploitation of children? Are children defenseless against rape in our society? Can we not deal with this problem at the level of actual harm, as opposed to that of hypothetical harm?

Yes, there are laws against the exploitation of children.  Unfortunately, the children are often far too scared/brainwashed to say anything about what has been happening to them.
Are they defenseless against rape? Yes, pretty much. Absence of ability to defend oneself against the attacker is essential in rape. In the case of children being raped, the odds of being able to defend oneself are diminished further than in the case of rape against adults. Add in the extremely common mental coercion and the child is very unlikely to defend him/herself in any way.

The actual harm IS the child porn.  There is no hypothetical harm. A child was raped or molested to make said porn. That is real and tangible harm.  I suppose I was speaking a little to hypothetical harm by saying someone who seeks and obtains child porn helps fuel the market, and thus, the creation of this porn... but there's nothing about that which isn't true.  Such a risky business would not exist without a market and a payoff.


I can't give you the exact wording but according to a social worker friend, the viewing of the materials causes a second victimization of the abused because the victim knows that it is being repeatedly watched by people and they are being viewed in that helpless state on an ongoing basis.
 
2013-03-18 06:11:56 PM  
I hear sex offenders are clumsy that way.
 
2013-03-18 06:12:40 PM  
  mikefinch:

What guy? I don't see a guy -- i see a farking animal that should have been beaten savagely...

I have no desire to hurt those i consider subhuman either
...


Ah, got to love the duality of Man.
 
2013-03-18 06:16:56 PM  

Enomai: I can't give you the exact wording but according to a social worker friend, the viewing of the materials causes a second victimization of the abused because the victim knows that it is being repeatedly watched by people and they are being viewed in that helpless state on an ongoing basis.


I read a reaaly hard to read autobbiography about a little girl used in porn films by her stepfather from a very young age. This was long pre-internet. She vividly remembered the sound of the little handheld 35 mm movie camera. She had about as farked up a childhood as it is possible to have and live. She survived, and became a victim advocate. She said the internet has been a horror for her personally, because her films which originally had a limited audience have made their way on line and are popular. She gets emails from strangers telling her how much they enjoyed her performance. The one where she was three.
 
2013-03-18 06:16:58 PM  
He falls a lot and seems to find all kinds of ways of running into phonebooks and getting his hands slammed in doors.  it's the strangest thing...

of courses once he gets into gen-pop his hands won't be the only thing getting slammed.
 
2013-03-18 06:17:32 PM  

namegoeshere: Enomai: I can't give you the exact wording but according to a social worker friend, the viewing of the materials causes a second victimization of the abused because the victim knows that it is being repeatedly watched by people and they are being viewed in that helpless state on an ongoing basis.

I read a reaaly hard to read autobbiography about a little girl used in porn films by her stepfather from a very young age. This was long pre-internet. She vividly remembered the sound of the little handheld 35 mm movie camera. She had about as farked up a childhood as it is possible to have and live. She survived, and became a victim advocate. She said the internet has been a horror for her personally, because her films which originally had a limited audience have made their way on line and are popular. She gets emails from strangers telling her how much they enjoyed her performance. The one where she was three.


Apparently I liike doouble letters todday.
 
2013-03-18 06:18:14 PM  
filmireland.netView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 06:26:28 PM  

FarkinHostile: Except that for such people, it is little more than a veneer of being civilized, and if conditions were to change, they would show their true colors. Given an consequence-less opportunity, their "Civilization" would be quickly abandoned.

Recommended reading "Lord of the Flies".


Exept that consequence-less existence isn't so consequence free.

'civilization' is what we make of it and i can guarantee you that smart individuals would communicate and trade with each other and establish a code of acceptable behavior. And when presented with someone trying to usurp their small community, or sexing up someone elses lady the group would hand out quite harsh consequences.

Vigilante justice is still justice. Mob justice is still justice. Its not the best form of justice, but in the absence of courts or cops people have always made do. Its wrong to let someone like that wander the streets.
 
2013-03-18 06:26:55 PM  

DerPups: nmemkha: Deserved or not, its not advantageous to a free and fair society to allow the police to dispense arbitrary vigilante justice.

well technically the police didn't dispense anything... however an omission... that may be a different story


Seems to be pretty common.

Prisoncrats will purposely house a 'sex offender' in a cell with prisoners with sole intentions of having him beaten up or even killed."

Article is long but worth reading.
 
2013-03-18 06:31:47 PM  

maggoo: Just because no one will actually give a damn about this guy, it doesn't mean it is acceptable to have convicts torturing other convicts


I accept it. Therefore, it is acceptable.
 
2013-03-18 06:32:11 PM  
i.dailymail.co.ukView Full Size

anvari.orgView Full Size
 
2013-03-18 06:32:38 PM  

namegoeshere: Enomai: I can't give you the exact wording but according to a social worker friend, the viewing of the materials causes a second victimization of the abused because the victim knows that it is being repeatedly watched by people and they are being viewed in that helpless state on an ongoing basis.

I read a reaaly hard to read autobbiography about a little girl used in porn films by her stepfather from a very young age. This was long pre-internet. She vividly remembered the sound of the little handheld 35 mm movie camera. She had about as farked up a childhood as it is possible to have and live. She survived, and became a victim advocate. She said the internet has been a horror for her personally, because her films which originally had a limited audience have made their way on line and are popular. She gets emails from strangers telling her how much they enjoyed her performance. The one where she was three.


That's horrible and unfortunately exactly what I was talking about.

What seems lost in all of the existential discussion of the human condition that's going on in this thread is the reality of secondary traumatization and empathy exhaustion. Parents have this thing that happens in their mind where their children's faces and mannerisms get projected upon the victims of the horrific things that happened in the above article. Eventually your brain dissociates and wishes harm upon the offenders because there aren't a lot of coping mechanisms to deal with the imaginary violation of your loved ones. Over time, the constant barrage of these stories leads to the numbing of any empathy/sympathy that you might have had prior to being a parent.

Posters, like FarkingHostile, while having admirable goals of wanting to coach some to a more enlightened position forget one thing: we're clever apes capable of awe inspiring acts of kindness one moment and some depraved mob behaviors the next. Change occurs over time. And if you can only protect so many things, often those who shock our sensibilities are the last in line.

tl;dr: you're all right, in your own way.

93
 
2013-03-18 06:39:22 PM  
He fell up the stairs, happens sometimes.

In some countries, the villagers kill child molesters when they catch them doing things like this, before the Police arrive.

/It Takes A Village
 
2013-03-18 06:41:49 PM  

mikefinch: civilization' is what we make of it


Indeed.

Doing my part.

Enomai: Posters, like FarkingHostile, while having admirable goals of wanting to coach some to a more enlightened position forget one thing: we're clever apes capable of awe inspiring acts of kindness one moment and some depraved mob behaviors the next

.

Nope, never forgot it. In fact, it's pretty much the reason I spoke. Perhaps making people aware that even they are quite capable of very depraved mob behaviors if they keep depersonalizing their target/victim and indulging in base thinking will help them to understand. (shrugs)
 
2013-03-18 06:45:33 PM  

Enomai: I can't give you the exact wording but according to a social worker friend, the viewing of the materials causes a second victimization of the abused because the victim knows that it is being repeatedly watched by people and they are being viewed in that helpless state on an ongoing basis.


That's an unsolvable problem. No amount of purification will result in a surety of absence of views.

Basically, you can never satisfy the paranoid.