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(The Register)   Windows 8 is now so unpopular with PC users that it's actually dragging down the value of new computers by $100   ( theregister.co.uk) divider line
    More: Fail, PC users, Windows, Best Buy, the Reg, Microsoft Tablet PC, computers, touch screens  
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8234 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Feb 2013 at 2:30 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-02-25 10:30:03 AM  
it was funny, when it come out, stores were selling boxed units with the option to upgrade.  Then after a month those all but disappeared.  Now it looks like places like Microcenter are selling those boxed systems with the option to downgrade to Win 7.
 
2013-02-25 10:55:19 AM  
Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.
 
2013-02-25 11:09:55 AM  
Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.
 
2013-02-25 11:18:32 AM  

nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.


ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.
 
2013-02-25 11:21:21 AM  
Yeah, probably because Microsoft is now charging another $100 for Windows 7. I will not subject my users to Windows 8. I care about them too much to do that, plus I don't want to deal with the support calls. If need be, I'll go bootleg on 7.

Assholes.
 
2013-02-25 11:35:22 AM  
I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.
 
2013-02-25 11:41:09 AM  

cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.


Agreed. Win8 runs smoother than most MS crap they've put out in years, it's just a pain to navigate around the Metro crap. I can ALMOST understand them trying to standardize an interface between phone / tablet / desktop. but the bottom line is that it just doesn't work.I neither expect nor want my desktop to behave the same as my phone. Even if I did, I'd probably prefer Android as a base instead of MS.

Solkar: Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


Me either. Metro sucks balls, but otherwise no real complaints.
 
2013-02-25 12:07:02 PM  

cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.


I like Win8. But I installed a start menu replacement, so I never see the metro crap and I have my start button back again.

What kills me are Win8 white nights who constantly tell people that they can do the same things they did before, but a different way. Most people, myself included, already know how to do things fast and don't
need or want a different way.
 
2013-02-25 12:24:55 PM  
I was tasked with getting my mother a new computer this year and I refused to even consider a system that came with Windows 8 because I wasn't comfortable getting her something that was so radically different that I was completely unfamiliar wtih.

The problem with microsoft is that they keep releasing products they think their customers SHOULD want, without putting much mind into what their customers actually DO want.  Every other operating system they release greatly overreaches and then they have to bring themselves back down to Earth on the following O/S. Windows Vista sucked balls, which is why Windows 7 was so much better.  Windows 8 is HORRIBLE, which is why Windows 9 will probably (hopefully) be fantasic.
 
2013-02-25 12:57:52 PM  
What a derpy headline, considering this is a meat of the article: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

They're lowing the prices of touchscreen PC's by $100, because people like using Win 8 on a touchscreen. And this is somehow news?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-02-25 01:14:48 PM  

Slaxl: nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.

ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.


You can even get a program to replace the start menu if you want it.  Or get a touch mouse or just learn how to organize it.  People don't like Win8 because it isn't what they are used to.

It wouldn't matter if it was as bad as the hipster geeks say, Tablets are where the margin is.
 
2013-02-25 01:54:16 PM  

MrSteve007: What a derpy headline, considering this is a meat of the article: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

They're lowing the prices of touchscreen PC's by $100, because people like using Win 8 on a touchscreen. And this is somehow news?


BUT BUT M$
 
2013-02-25 02:00:17 PM  

vpb: People don't like Win8 because it isn't what they are used to.


That's true for some, no doubt. But I absolutely loved Windows 7, best version ever. And it had some substantial changes over XP. I skipped Vista entirely. Different does not always mean better. But then, I still use the command prompt on a daily basis, guess I am a bit `old school'
 
2013-02-25 02:07:24 PM  
I use Win 8, but I installed one of the Start Menu substitutes as the first order of business. As a pure desktop environment it's faster than Win 7. I also like the new ribbon bar in Explorer.

All of my hardware worked fine although most of them needed new drivers or re-installations of the old ones. I only had a couple software issues.

The Metro stuff works OK with a touchpad but I wouldn't want to try using it with a mouse. Currently I'm using a Logitech T650 and an old Wacom Intuos as pointing devices.
 
2013-02-25 02:28:14 PM  
I don't personally use it myself as my primary OS, though I have used Windows 8.

It's fine. There's nothing worth getting worked up on about it. 90% of you are going to go and stay in Desktop mode and never come out. The remaining 10% have either a tablet PC or a convertible laptop and will use Modern UI in tablet mode, but otherwise use Desktop mode.
 
2013-02-25 02:31:39 PM  
Windows 7 or GTFO.
 
2013-02-25 02:35:48 PM  
As much as I think Win 8 sucks (it does you know) I think this may have more to do with a touch screen computer, then the actual OS.
 
2013-02-25 02:36:06 PM  
I cannot fathom the idea of getting greasy, smudgy fingerprints all over my desktop monitors.  Never mind the fact that I'd have to fully extend my arm just to reach my screens.

Smudged up monitors and an exhausted arm is somehow better than a keyboard and mouse?   WTF?
 
2013-02-25 02:36:56 PM  
Everything has been crap since OS/2.


/windows 8 is a good OS. Deal with it.
 
2013-02-25 02:39:01 PM  

Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


You answered your own question. IOW, if one is technically proficient enough to effectively convert 8 into 7, as you are, it's a great OS. For those who are not, or whose work situation won't allow it, 8 is the anti-Christ of OS's.

/hates the Win8 on my new laptop, but getting used to its bass-ackwards way of doing everything
 
2013-02-25 02:40:02 PM  
I don't understand why aren't all the Windows 8 machines touchscreen? I went into Wal-Mart the other day and NONE of them were touchscreen. Granted Wal-Mart isn't exactly a computer store, but none of them? Really?

Microsoft should have made it a requirement that computers have a touchscreen to be "Windows 8 capable" or something.
 
2013-02-25 02:40:34 PM  

President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.


/windows 8 is a good OS. Deal with it.


How about you think Win 8 is a good OS, so you can deal with it. A good portion of us thinks it sucks.
 
2013-02-25 02:41:35 PM  
I'd buy WinBlow8 if it let me touch what was on the other side of the screen

/foobies
 
2013-02-25 02:43:15 PM  

Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


Does Windows 8 do the same thing that Server 2012 does when you change the windows colors (font, links, that sort of thing) from the ugly as hell defaults to something reasonable?  When you do it in 2012, it carries over to your browsers, making them nearly impossible to use.

Haven't used Win 8, but already have a hate on for 2012, I'm only installing it without the UI at this point.
 
2013-02-25 02:44:44 PM  

Gunny Walker: Microsoft should have made it a requirement that computers have a touchscreen to be "Windows 8 capable" or something.


cause people reaching up from their keyboards to touch their monitors on their desks is such an efficient way to do things.
 
2013-02-25 02:45:14 PM  

vpb: You can even get a program to replace the start menu if you want it.  Or get a touch mouse or just learn how to organize it.  People don't like Win8 because it isn't what they are used to.


It's not just not what they are used to.  While home PC use is certainly an important market, business computing is huge, and metro is a huge middle finger to business use. The desktop style works, the table style just doesn't.  Not for business use.  Sometimes "if it's not broke, don't fix it" should be taken to heart.

Granted it's easy to install classic shell and forget about it, but most IT departments are already overtaxed and don't need to spend time fixing what is essentially a broken UI from Microsoft.
 
2013-02-25 02:46:20 PM  

MrSteve007: What a derpy headline, considering this is a meat of the article: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

They're lowing the prices of touchscreen PC's by $100, because people like using Win 8 on a touchscreen. And this is somehow news?


I see an awkward attempt not to use negatives. The article is a "fair and balanced" spin on the fact that nobody can move Win8 desktops and laptops - you know, actual computers operated with a keyboard and mouse - so they slashed prices.
 
2013-02-25 02:46:35 PM  

cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.


The good thing is MS can recover from this, if they want.  Win8 has solid internals and all you need to do is churn out a classic GUI style for Windows 9.  Win7 is glorious and really it is just Vista SP 2.5, so turning around Win8 can't be that hard.
 
2013-02-25 02:47:14 PM  

Slaxl: nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.

ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.


Yeah, HORRIBLE problem, that. God forbid anything should ever change. Or could afford $5 for a utility that brings back that precious start button.
 
2013-02-25 02:49:40 PM  

Slaxl: nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.

ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.


Yeah, install Shell Classic or whatever, and applications to take over the various inbuilt Modern UI (like a pdf viewer, etc.), and you forget you have even changed - been using it for a few months for work and haven't had any issues once I took the plunge and installed a third party mod to de-Metro it.
 
2013-02-25 02:49:41 PM  
Surely this has nothing to do with the fact that PC desktop and laptop sales were already slowing before Windows 8 even came out?

Also: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

Remember how much hate XP got when it came out? "I"m never leaving '98 or Win2k" is what people said. Some are still crying over its demise.
 
2013-02-25 02:49:52 PM  
It's the shear arrogance of Microsoft forcing Metro on people that pisses me off.  It should come with a simple option to disable that mess.  I'm no Apple fanboy, but at least when they introduced some "mobile" type features into OS X they were entirely optional (Launch Pad, natural scrolling, etc.)

I'm going to be stubborn this time.  I refuse to install it until they decide to not force the crappy UI on me (I don't care if there are 3rd party workarounds).  Apparently the IT department at the university I work at agrees with me.
 
2013-02-25 02:50:20 PM  
You'll get over it.

/fek, I had to say it?
//fark, you're slipping
 
2013-02-25 02:50:25 PM  
 
2013-02-25 02:50:31 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Slaxl: nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.

ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.

Yeah, HORRIBLE problem, that. God forbid anything should ever change. Or could afford $5 for a utility that brings back that precious start button.


It rubs me the wrong way to spend even a dime to return functionality to a new 'improved' OS.
 
2013-02-25 02:54:04 PM  

Gunny Walker: I don't understand why aren't all the Windows 8 machines touchscreen? I went into Wal-Mart the other day and NONE of them were touchscreen. Granted Wal-Mart isn't exactly a computer store, but none of them? Really?

Microsoft should have made it a requirement that computers have a touchscreen to be "Windows 8 capable" or something.


So they'd cut their desktop/laptop market to roughly 10% of what it is now?  Not likely.  MS still has a strong need for their current OS to dominate the entire PC market.  Their newest release can't just be for touchscreen systems and devices.
 
2013-02-25 02:54:38 PM  

Dr. Whoof: Granted it's easy to install classic shell and forget about it, but most IT departments are already overtaxed and don't need to spend time fixing what is essentially a broken UI from Microsoft.


Right now, most companies are likely either migrating to Windows 7, or have just finished moving to it and in either case would not be even considering a move to Windows 8. It's possible that MS knew that Win 8 would have low adoption rates in businesses, which would give them another 3 years to refine the new UI to something that works for businesses. It always takes MS two major releases of Windows to get things right
 
2013-02-25 02:55:44 PM  

zarberg: 6 Ways to avoid the Metro Interface in Win 8


1 easy way. You can still get a new computer that runs Windows 7.
 
2013-02-25 02:55:50 PM  
What I don't get is why Microsoft ever felt the need to inflict Win8 upon us in the form that they did.  I get that you want to leverage touch screens, move in the direction of common UI themes across multiple platforms, etc.   That said make it so Win8 has a switch in it where you can either do a Win7 desktop style or the Win8 tiles. Let the consumer pick.

For example a tablet that ran around in tile model, but could be set so when your bluetooth keyboard and mouse connected it automatically flipped over to the classic UI would be nice.  A laptop that detected when you folder the screen over into slate mode and switched to tiles would also be awesome.  Tiles could also exist in the classic UI like widgets.  Let me pick how much I want.  Like just a row of the touch tiles on the bottom of the screen.

Each UI has its perks, so while the hell did anyone think it was a good idea to make you pick just one?

/also Windows should be smart enough to determine if each monitor is touch table or not and react.  Another awesome mode would be my giant 24" monitor in front of me and a 15" touch monitor lying flat on the desk that I can use to input commands
 
2013-02-25 02:56:44 PM  
Screenshots of the next version (Windows9??)has already been leaked and it should be out in Nov.
 
2013-02-25 02:57:01 PM  
They'll have to pry it into my cold dead hands.
 
2013-02-25 02:57:23 PM  

1000 Ways to Dye: Surely this has nothing to do with the fact that PC desktop and laptop sales were already slowing before Windows 8 even came out?

Also: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

Remember how much hate XP got when it came out? "I"m never leaving '98 or Win2k NT" is what people said. Some are still crying over its demise.


I miss NT.
 
2013-02-25 02:57:37 PM  

mcreadyblue: Screenshots of the next version (Windows9??)has already been leaked and it should be out in Nov.


Link?
 
2013-02-25 02:58:23 PM  
win 8, under the hood, is a fine os.

however, it's covered in 'designed by marketing committee to sysnergize with mobile because mobile socials the mobile tablet appstore growth!' shiat
 
2013-02-25 02:58:52 PM  
Do you hear that, Microsoft? The marketplace has spoken. Nobody wants Windows 8. Recall it while you are still in business.
 
2013-02-25 03:00:29 PM  
What's funny is that the adoption rate of Win 8 appears to be a lot faster than Windows 7, yet people claim it isn't selling well.

Look at any major metric you want, it's proving to be true.
 
2013-02-25 03:00:50 PM  
img189.imageshack.usView Full Size


Suck it, Ballmer. You'll have to try Windows 3.1 from my cold, dead, hands.

/Trumpet Winsock FTW
 
2013-02-25 03:02:25 PM  
The big problem for me is that Win 8 farks up my workflow because I have lost all those helpful jump lists in the Start Menu. When going back to recent documents, I usually just go to the Start Menu, select the app, then mouse over to the Recent docs opened with that app. There's just not a good way to replicate that workflow with Win 8, and having a flat folder structure for the Start Screen doesn't work well with many legacy apps.
 
2013-02-25 03:03:01 PM  

Saiga410: 1000 Ways to Dye: Surely this has nothing to do with the fact that PC desktop and laptop sales were already slowing before Windows 8 even came out?

Also: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

Remember how much hate XP got when it came out? "I"m never leaving '98 or Win2k NT" is what people said. Some are still crying over its demise.

I miss NT.


uh, hate to tell you, but XP was NT 6.
 
2013-02-25 03:03:37 PM  

MrSteve007: What's funny is that the adoption rate of Win 8 appears to be a lot faster than Windows 7, yet people claim it isn't selling well.


That chart lists all mobile OSes as having a 2.2% market share. So, no.
 
2013-02-25 03:03:38 PM  
shiat, I meant 5. fark me.
 
2013-02-25 03:05:12 PM  
I'm looking forward to six months from now when Windows Blue comes out and everyone has something new to biatch and moan about.

I can go weeks without seeing Metro on Windows 8 or full installs of Server 2012.
 
2013-02-25 03:05:39 PM  
I tried Win8 on a touchscreen laptop this weekend. I felt it was a positive experience, but I could quickly see how using the live-tile display would be a pain with a mouse and using a 28" touchscreen monitor would be a pain as well. So it's not really a good idea for desktops. However the touchscreen laptop was, perhaps, the perfect application for it.
 
2013-02-25 03:06:02 PM  

macdaddy357: Do you hear that, Microsoft? The marketplace has spoken. Nobody wants Windows 8. Recall it while you are still in business.


Metro actually works fine on a tablet. In fact, I will say it's more then fine, it's actually pretty nice. I expect tiles, icons, etc, on a touch surface tablet computer. But on a desktop type system (laptops included) it's awkward.
If MS would patch the damn thing to let the user shove the Metro UI out of sight, and give users the option of the legacy start button, then I think most of the complaints would go away.
 
2013-02-25 03:07:49 PM  
Touchscreen = Voice recognition = OCR = FAIL

All three sound great to an uninformed consumer until the actually try to use them and find out the old interfaces were always better and that why we used them.


And you can add 'everything on 1 remote' for your entertainment system.
 
2013-02-25 03:08:04 PM  
Eh, another Win8 hate thread.

New computer came with Win 8, planned to downgrade it but gave it a shot.  Thirty minutes and a couple questions on google and I was good to go.  Still use the start screen, customized it for my needs and it works faster for me than the start menu ever did.  Nice to have a dedicated TuneInRadio app for streaming music while I work.  All my stuff is exactly where I want it on the start screen; nothing I don't want is visible.  I just go direct for what I want.  I wouldn't want the old start menu back now.

I can understand why the business people hate it.  But they always seem to hate every change.  fark, I remember the whining about how Windows XP was going to be the cancer that killed computing because of the Authentication system, and how it was the worst thing to happen to the Enterprise-sector sales since the invention of taxes.

/Still have no idea why people have problems with the Metro interface using a mouse.
//It's still farking icons, you just click once instead of twice.
///Not complicated.
 
2013-02-25 03:08:14 PM  

ha-ha-guy: What I don't get is why Microsoft ever felt the need to inflict Win8 upon us in the form that they did.  I get that you want to leverage touch screens, move in the direction of common UI themes across multiple platforms, etc.   That said make it so Win8 has a switch in it where you can either do a Win7 desktop style or the Win8 tiles. Let the consumer pick.

For example a tablet that ran around in tile model, but could be set so when your bluetooth keyboard and mouse connected it automatically flipped over to the classic UI would be nice.  A laptop that detected when you folder the screen over into slate mode and switched to tiles would also be awesome.  Tiles could also exist in the classic UI like widgets.  Let me pick how much I want.  Like just a row of the touch tiles on the bottom of the screen.

Each UI has its perks, so while the hell did anyone think it was a good idea to make you pick just one?

/also Windows should be smart enough to determine if each monitor is touch table or not and react.  Another awesome mode would be my giant 24" monitor in front of me and a 15" touch monitor lying flat on the desk that I can use to input commands


They didn't force the chief architect to use Windows 8 on a real computer with twin 24" monitors mounted at arm's length.  They fell in love with their little pad computers and completely lost track of their base, 99% of whom do not have a touch screen monitor.  If they had forced that pinhead to use a typical desktop set-up, they could have saved themselves and everyone else a lot of aggravation.  They have an Apple fixation fetish, and they're paying for it.  And so are we.
 
2013-02-25 03:10:10 PM  
Let me change my comment. I think I used the wrong wording. They could sell laptops without touch screens. However, if you want the little sticker that says "Windows 8 capable" on box/case/whatever, Microsoft would have required a touch screen. (And a couple of sensible things like CPU speed and min RAM.)

It'll pressure the manufacturers into a better user experience through better hardware. I'm not suggesting that they come without keyboards. I'm not suggesting you have to use a touchscreen. Heck, I'm not even saying it is a requirement. What I am suggesting is a little better marketing. Because which one will the average consumer buy, the one with or without the sticker that proudly proclaims it was "Built for Windows 8"? Granted, there will always be some where price will prohibit them from buying. I understand why there was a Celeron market. I understand some people want specific hardware. It's why we still have desktops. What I am suggesting is a little better marketing. Tiny little stickers that can sway the market.

(Or I'd imagine it would sway the market. Even I'd still like to have the classic start menu as an option.)
 
2013-02-25 03:12:11 PM  

SuperT: I miss NT.

uh, hate to tell you, but XP was NT 6.


Actually, it was NT 5.1, and Vista was NT 6.
 
2013-02-25 03:15:03 PM  
All MS had to do was have an option for the old interface, but no they had to push their new bullshiat on people who don't want it.
 
2013-02-25 03:18:31 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: What kills me are Win8 white nights who constantly tell people that they can do the same things they did before, but a different way. Most people, myself included, already know how to do things fast and don't need or want a different way.


I still haven't figured out how to do certain things in Word 2007 that I could do in my sleep with the previous version.

Why does each new version of a Microsoft product seem like it was designed for a user seven years younger than the previous version was?
 
2013-02-25 03:20:46 PM  
Awesome, I can just buy one of these and slap my copy of Win 7 Pro on it, right?
 
2013-02-25 03:22:44 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: ha-ha-guy: What I don't get is why Microsoft ever felt the need to inflict Win8 upon us in the form that they did.  I get that you want to leverage touch screens, move in the direction of common UI themes across multiple platforms, etc.   That said make it so Win8 has a switch in it where you can either do a Win7 desktop style or the Win8 tiles. Let the consumer pick.

For example a tablet that ran around in tile model, but could be set so when your bluetooth keyboard and mouse connected it automatically flipped over to the classic UI would be nice.  A laptop that detected when you folder the screen over into slate mode and switched to tiles would also be awesome.  Tiles could also exist in the classic UI like widgets.  Let me pick how much I want.  Like just a row of the touch tiles on the bottom of the screen.

Each UI has its perks, so while the hell did anyone think it was a good idea to make you pick just one?


They didn't force the chief architect to use Windows 8 2.0 on a real computer with twin 24" monitors mounted at arm's length color graphics.  They fell in love with their little pad computers computer mouse and completely lost track of their base, 99% of whom do not have a touch screen monitor computer mouse.  If they had forced that pinhead to use a typical desktop set-up, they could have saved themselves and everyone else a lot of aggravation.  They have an Apple fixation fetish, and they're paying for it.  And so are we.


Fixed that for history.
 
2013-02-25 03:25:19 PM  
Marcus Aurelius:
They didn't force the chief architect to use Windows 8 on a real computer with twin 24" monitors mounted at arm's length.  They fell in love with their little pad computers and completely lost track of their base, 99% of whom do not have a touch screen monitor.

I'm no market analyst but I can tell from Photoshops I've seen of PC sales charts that twin-monitor desktops are not what is selling, and not their "base".  I'm also kinda bad at basic math without using a calculator but I'm pretty sure 99% is a bullshiat number pulled out of the butt of a brontosaurus in bullshiat land.
 
2013-02-25 03:29:16 PM  

Mad_Radhu: The big problem for me is that Win 8 farks up my workflow because I have lost all those helpful jump lists in the Start Menu. When going back to recent documents, I usually just go to the Start Menu, select the app, then mouse over to the Recent docs opened with that app. There's just not a good way to replicate that workflow with Win 8, and having a flat folder structure for the Start Screen doesn't work well with many legacy apps.


If you use certain legacy applications frequently enough, you can pin their icon to the taskbar and when you mouse over the icon, it'll give you a list of recent documents.

Otherwise, you can also try this to get your generic jump lists back:   http://www.instantfundas.com/2012/10/where-is-recent-documents -in-wind ows-8.html
 
2013-02-25 03:30:39 PM  

xria: Yeah, install Shell Classic or whatever, and applications to take over the various inbuilt Modern UI (like a pdf viewer, etc.), and you forget you have even changed - been using it for a few months for work and haven't had any issues once I took the plunge and installed a third party mod to de-Metro it.


Windows 8 isn't crap because you used a third-party program to decrapify it.

Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that the OS isn't the important part of computers - it's the programs the OS runs.  It's the difference between a plate and the food you eat off of it.  Windows 8 is the equivalent of taking peoples forks away and telling them they'll have so much of a better experience using chopsticks.

Your solution is to go buy plastic utensils at the grocery store.
 
2013-02-25 03:31:08 PM  
Gabe at Penny Arcade made a post about how much he loves his Surface Pro.

/as a mobile platform for an artist and (somewhat) for a gamer
//I'm not upgrading from 7
 
2013-02-25 03:31:31 PM  

Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


They're mandating touchscreen aesthetics and design on a system that is meant to handle keyboard+mouse input.

Win 8 is great for tablets and touchscreens.  For those of us who still use an actual mouse, gestures and hot zones are an added inconvenience we would disable if we could.  Since we can't, it turns EVERY ACTION into something which is just a little bit inconvenient.  Sure, doesn't seem like much, but when your entire day is "try to do something, it's slightly inconvenient but you can do it" it adds up quickly into one big problem.

It's not the start screen, though that is kind of bad.  It's the fact that instead of buttons and clicking them, it's all "put your mouse in this corner of the screen for X period of time" or "click and drag this over here to close it". The buttons worked fine, thanks.  They didn't need fixing; they weren't broken.
 
2013-02-25 03:32:32 PM  

MrSteve007: What's funny is that the adoption rate of Win 8 appears to be a lot faster than Windows 7, yet people claim it isn't selling well.

Look at any major metric you want, it's proving to be true.


I think Windows 7 adoption started slow because Vista left such a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
 
2013-02-25 03:34:40 PM  

theurge14: Marcus Aurelius:
They didn't force the chief architect to use Windows 8 on a real computer with twin 24" monitors mounted at arm's length.  They fell in love with their little pad computers and completely lost track of their base, 99% of whom do not have a touch screen monitor.

I'm no market analyst but I can tell from Photoshops I've seen of PC sales charts that twin-monitor desktops are not what is selling, and not their "base".  I'm also kinda bad at basic math without using a calculator but I'm pretty sure 99% is a bullshiat number pulled out of the butt of a brontosaurus in bullshiat land.


There are a lot of companies that do use dual monitors. Very useful when dealing with spreadsheets.
Although 99% is probably an arbitrary number, I would guess that a large percentage of people do not have a touch screen capable computer.
 
2013-02-25 03:37:05 PM  

ha-ha-guy: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

The good thing is MS can recover from this, if they want.  Win8 has solid internals and all you need to do is churn out a classic GUI style for Windows 9.  Win7 is glorious and really it is just Vista SP 2.5, so turning around Win8 can't be that hard.


What I'm getting is that Win 8 under the hood is great...but the interface just kills your desire to play with it.
 
2013-02-25 03:38:44 PM  

Rwa2play: ha-ha-guy: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

The good thing is MS can recover from this, if they want.  Win8 has solid internals and all you need to do is churn out a classic GUI style for Windows 9.  Win7 is glorious and really it is just Vista SP 2.5, so turning around Win8 can't be that hard.

What I'm getting is that Win 8 under the hood is great...but the interface just kills your desire to play with it.


The interface is so bad that you will want to use bleach on your eyes
 
2013-02-25 03:39:07 PM  
When the strongest argument in favor of the OS is "You can buy a third-party application that will circumvent most of the crap that people hate" there is a real problem. Why Microsoft hasn't released its own version of that application, some sort of "Desktop 8" service pack for non-touch-screen systems, is a mystery.

There are a significantly large number of consumers who do not *want* to buy a third-party application to make their  brand new OS work the way they want it to work. There are a large number of consumers who don't *want* their operating system to be a total pain in the ass to use. In fact, most end users would rather not notice the operating system at all.  The OS should exist, unnoticed, in the background.
 
2013-02-25 03:40:34 PM  
Wait... why did we need Windows 8 again? What was wrong with Windows 7?
 
2013-02-25 03:41:48 PM  

yukichigai: it's all "put your mouse in this corner of the screen for X period of time" or "click and drag this over here to close it"


I have yet had a chance to play with Win8.  This is really what is expected in destop mode?
 
2013-02-25 03:43:13 PM  

xaveth: Wait... why did we need Windows 8 again? What was wrong with Windows 7?


Because Microsoft wants you to give them another $100+ a machine for an OS.

/I'm still phasing out a few XP machines at work for 7...
 
2013-02-25 03:43:32 PM  

cman: Rwa2play: ha-ha-guy: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

The good thing is MS can recover from this, if they want.  Win8 has solid internals and all you need to do is churn out a classic GUI style for Windows 9.  Win7 is glorious and really it is just Vista SP 2.5, so turning around Win8 can't be that hard.

What I'm getting is that Win 8 under the hood is great...but the interface just kills your desire to play with it.

The interface is so bad that you will want to use bleach on your eyes


What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).
 
2013-02-25 03:43:50 PM  

cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.


This.
 
2013-02-25 03:45:17 PM  

Saiga410: yukichigai: it's all "put your mouse in this corner of the screen for X period of time" or "click and drag this over here to close it"

I have yet had a chance to play with Win8.  This is really what is expected in destop mode?


There's no "start button" to get the Start Screen.  Instead you're expected to cram your mouse over to the bottom-left corner, which will then produce something you can click.  The charms bar, which holds the Control Panel-esque functions, is over in the right side of the screen.

Desktop apps don't have to be closed with click and drag, thank God, but Metro apps do.  The login screen also requires you to click the little banner thing and then drag it down to reveal the login prompt, etc. etc. etc.  Little to none of this can be disabled.
 
2013-02-25 03:46:07 PM  

ColdFusion: cman: Rwa2play: ha-ha-guy: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

The good thing is MS can recover from this, if they want.  Win8 has solid internals and all you need to do is churn out a classic GUI style for Windows 9.  Win7 is glorious and really it is just Vista SP 2.5, so turning around Win8 can't be that hard.

What I'm getting is that Win 8 under the hood is great...but the interface just kills your desire to play with it.

The interface is so bad that you will want to use bleach on your eyes

What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).


Have you ever gotten your dick stuck in a mouse trap?

That bad.
 
2013-02-25 03:47:12 PM  

ColdFusion: What's so bad about it? I mean, specifically. All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).


Because it's not "single-click", it's "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt" or "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."
 
2013-02-25 03:47:24 PM  

ColdFusion: Eh, another Win8 hate thread.

New computer came with Win 8, planned to downgrade it but gave it a shot.  Thirty minutes and a couple questions on google and I was good to go.  Still use the start screen, customized it for my needs and it works faster for me than the start menu ever did.  Nice to have a dedicated TuneInRadio app for streaming music while I work.  All my stuff is exactly where I want it on the start screen; nothing I don't want is visible.  I just go direct for what I want.  I wouldn't want the old start menu back now...


My experience is pretty much like yours, Windows 8 is 7 with great under the hood changes, a better desktop and a start menu that is more useful than Win7's.  I still use 7 at work, and I don't mind it enough to ask for an upgrade, but I would prefer that to be 8 as well.
 
2013-02-25 03:48:32 PM  

Mad_Radhu: SuperT: I miss NT.

uh, hate to tell you, but XP was NT 6.

Actually, it was NT 5.1, and Vista was NT 6.


IHere's the problem with those "official" version numbers. The first version of Windows NT got the official version number of 3.1, instead of 1.0.

After you adjust to rational version numbers (where we don't pretend the first version of something is 3) it goes like this.

Windows NT 3.1 was really version 1
Windows NT 4 was really version 2
Windows 2000 was really version 3
Windows XP was really version 3.1
Windows Vista was really version 4
Windows 7 was really version 4.1
Windows 8 is really version 4.2
 
2013-02-25 03:49:55 PM  
Yes I could google this but I figured someone here has already done it. I got over most of my gripes after installing Classic Shell and banishing Metro to wherever it is now.

How do I make it stop pulling up the system controls stuff whenever I scroll over to the right side of the screen?

Also, sometimes when I'm playing civilization I make some move on my track pad and I guess Win 8 is set up to go to the homescreen whenever I make a certain move (what it is I can't figure out), how the hell do I turn off this "feature"?
 
2013-02-25 03:50:37 PM  

cman: ColdFusion: cman: Rwa2play: ha-ha-guy: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

The good thing is MS can recover from this, if they want.  Win8 has solid internals and all you need to do is churn out a classic GUI style for Windows 9.  Win7 is glorious and really it is just Vista SP 2.5, so turning around Win8 can't be that hard.

What I'm getting is that Win 8 under the hood is great...but the interface just kills your desire to play with it.

The interface is so bad that you will want to use bleach on your eyes

What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

Have you ever gotten your dick stuck in a mouse trap?

That bad.


Can't say as I have.  Windows 8 does not contain a mousetrap function, so I'm not sure how that is a specific problem.

yukichigai: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it? I mean, specifically. All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

Because it's not "single-click", it's "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt" or "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."


What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?
 
2013-02-25 03:51:22 PM  

cman: Have you ever gotten your dick stuck in a mouse trap?

That bad.


That was actually sort of pleasant...

/Yes Mistress
//No Mistress
///"Fark fark ow fark fark" means "I love you", Mistress
 
2013-02-25 03:52:11 PM  

yukichigai: Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.

They're mandating touchscreen aesthetics and design on a system that is meant to handle keyboard+mouse input.

Win 8 is great for tablets and touchscreens.  For those of us who still use an actual mouse, gestures and hot zones are an added inconvenience we would disable if we could.  Since we can't, it turns EVERY ACTION into something which is just a little bit inconvenient.  Sure, doesn't seem like much, but when your entire day is "try to do something, it's slightly inconvenient but you can do it" it adds up quickly into one big problem.

It's not the start screen, though that is kind of bad.  It's the fact that instead of buttons and clicking them, it's all "put your mouse in this corner of the screen for X period of time" or "click and drag this over here to close it". The buttons worked fine, thanks.  They didn't need fixing; they weren't broken.


Do you not find the corners to be helpful, especially if your primary access to Windows-based systems is through remote desktop interface windows that do not occupy the entire screen?
 
2013-02-25 03:52:40 PM  

ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?


Login screen, for one.
 
2013-02-25 03:54:22 PM  

ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?


Basically anything that you would have clicked the Start button for.
 
2013-02-25 03:54:29 PM  

yukichigai: Saiga410: yukichigai: it's all "put your mouse in this corner of the screen for X period of time" or "click and drag this over here to close it"

I have yet had a chance to play with Win8.  This is really what is expected in destop mode?

There's no "start button" to get the Start Screen.  Instead you're expected to cram your mouse over to the bottom-left corner, which will then produce something you can click.  The charms bar, which holds the Control Panel-esque functions, is over in the right side of the screen.

Desktop apps don't have to be closed with click and drag, thank God, but Metro apps do.  The login screen also requires you to click the little banner thing and then drag it down to reveal the login prompt, etc. etc. etc.  Little to none of this can be disabled.


There are a few things about the new start screen that are aggravating if you're a desktop user:

1)  It would be nice if you could adjust the time required to display the start button or the charms bar.  It takes a little too long.
2) Hot corners are a terrible idea if you have more than one monitor.  I have three, and getting a hot corner to show up on the middle monitor is an exercise in madness because you can't just slap the cursor up against the side of the screen.

Microsoft should have thought this through a little more.
 
2013-02-25 03:54:35 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: Yes I could google this but I figured someone here has already done it. I got over most of my gripes after installing Classic Shell and banishing Metro to wherever it is now.

How do I make it stop pulling up the system controls stuff whenever I scroll over to the right side of the screen?

Also, sometimes when I'm playing civilization I make some move on my track pad and I guess Win 8 is set up to go to the homescreen whenever I make a certain move (what it is I can't figure out), how the hell do I turn off this "feature"?


Moving the mouse to the upper or lower right corners of the screen will pop up the "Charms Bar".  The only way to disable this is to edit the Registry.  If you're up for it, here you go:   http://betanews.com/2012/08/21/disable-the-charms-panel-in-windows-8/
 
2013-02-25 03:54:55 PM  

Dimensio: Do you not find the corners to be helpful, especially if your primary access to Windows-based systems is through remote desktop interface windows that do not occupy the entire screen?


Oh yeah, the BEST.  Especially with the inherent display lag on a remote connect that delays the time it takes for me to see when the Charms Bar/Start Screen Button/etc. has come up so I can click and actually do something.
 
2013-02-25 03:56:35 PM  

ColdFusion: Communist_Manifesto: Yes I could google this but I figured someone here has already done it. I got over most of my gripes after installing Classic Shell and banishing Metro to wherever it is now.

How do I make it stop pulling up the system controls stuff whenever I scroll over to the right side of the screen?

Also, sometimes when I'm playing civilization I make some move on my track pad and I guess Win 8 is set up to go to the homescreen whenever I make a certain move (what it is I can't figure out), how the hell do I turn off this "feature"?

Moving the mouse to the upper or lower right corners of the screen will pop up the "Charms Bar".  The only way to disable this is to edit the Registry.  If you're up for it, here you go:   http://betanews.com/2012/08/21/disable-the-charms-panel-in-windows-8/


And this right here is why as a gamer I will never use Windows 8.  I mean I guess I'm in the minority here who doesn't want their solo effort taking down Crawmerax to be interrupted by the Charms Bar helpfully popping up and stealing focus.
 
2013-02-25 03:56:50 PM  

yukichigai: ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?

Login screen, for one.


You can just hit the spacebar to get to the login screen, but it isn't terribly intuitive. I have no idea why they couldn't just combine the lock and logon screens into one.
 
2013-02-25 03:58:10 PM  

ColdFusion: Communist_Manifesto: Yes I could google this but I figured someone here has already done it. I got over most of my gripes after installing Classic Shell and banishing Metro to wherever it is now.

How do I make it stop pulling up the system controls stuff whenever I scroll over to the right side of the screen?

Also, sometimes when I'm playing civilization I make some move on my track pad and I guess Win 8 is set up to go to the homescreen whenever I make a certain move (what it is I can't figure out), how the hell do I turn off this "feature"?

Moving the mouse to the upper or lower right corners of the screen will pop up the "Charms Bar".  The only way to disable this is to edit the Registry.  If you're up for it, here you go:   http://betanews.com/2012/08/21/disable-the-charms-panel-in-windows-8/


Oh christ, I knew it would be something like that. Considering I don't have the skillz to unfark that up if I fark it up I guess I will have to live with the "charm" bar. Thanks anyway!

The other issue isn't anything to do with a charm bar, it's a mouse gesture type thing.

And after googling it looks like another thing I would need to edit the registry for. Goddamnit  http://superuser.com/questions/494705/modify-or-disable-windows-8-swi p e-gestures-on-touchpad-laptop
 
2013-02-25 03:58:36 PM  

ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).


This covers the complaints quite nicely
 
2013-02-25 03:59:11 PM  

yukichigai: ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?

Login screen, for one.


Huh.  On mine, I just click anywhere and it pops straight to the username and password entry screen.


stevetherobot: ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?

Basically anything that you would have clicked the Start button for.


I typically used the Start Button to access my programs.  Never needed to type in it before.
 
Ant
2013-02-25 04:00:13 PM  
I think Windows 8 is OK for the most part. I have it on my work computer. I like being able to mount ISOs as drives without adding any third-party software. I don't like the metro apps that come with it though. If I had a tablet, it might be another story.

It's nowhere near as bad as Windows ME. Anyone who says it is probably never used WinME
 
2013-02-25 04:00:21 PM  
I went into Best Buy a few weeks ago to purchase my girlfriend a new laptop. They didn't have ANY Windows 7 machines. I'm not about to make her figure out an entirely new operating system -- because guess who will get called 5 times a day, every day, until she figures it out. (And *I* don't even own a Windows 8 box, so I would have no idea how to help her.

Told the salesman straight up, "Well, I'll buy from Tiger Direct or Amazon then", and we both walked out of the store.

Tiger direct had some good deals, so we snagged a nice Acer with Win7 on it. She couldn't be happier. (And I'm not having to support it, so yay me!)

Charles.
 
2013-02-25 04:00:30 PM  

Lsherm: There are a few things about the new start screen that are aggravating if you're a desktop user:

1) It would be nice if you could adjust the time required to display the start button or the charms bar. It takes a little too long.
2) Hot corners are a terrible idea if you have more than one monitor. I have three, and getting a hot corner to show up on the middle monitor is an exercise in madness because you can't just slap the cursor up against the side of the screen.

Microsoft should have thought this through a little more.


God I didn't even think about this.  I run a two-monitor setup with different sized monitors, so I actually have six "crammable" corners rather than four.  Having three that are the same size, if you prefer keeping the center as "main", would be a nightmare.
 
2013-02-25 04:00:52 PM  

theurge14: Marcus Aurelius:
They didn't force the chief architect to use Windows 8 on a real computer with twin 24" monitors mounted at arm's length.  They fell in love with their little pad computers and completely lost track of their base, 99% of whom do not have a touch screen monitor.

I'm no market analyst but I can tell from Photoshops I've seen of PC sales charts that twin-monitor desktops are not what is selling, and not their "base".  I'm also kinda bad at basic math without using a calculator but I'm pretty sure 99% is a bullshiat number pulled out of the butt of a brontosaurus in bullshiat land.


All my numbers are based on a vast sample of over 7 different people, so I don't know how you can say that.  I'm hurt.
 
2013-02-25 04:04:49 PM  

ColdFusion: I typically used the Start Button to access my programs. Never needed to type in it before.


You've never had to run a command prompt?
 
2013-02-25 04:05:20 PM  
After I uninstalled the Metro style image and PDF viewers, and turned off "hot corners", the experience became more than bearable. The OS itself is great, the UI takes 3 minutes to get used to.

It is nothing like the disaster of ME, or even the screwup of Vista. It's just a UI paradigm hiccup that can be easily circumvented.

//Engineer, been on Win8 since RTM last summer, now have it on both work and home boxes with zero regret.
 
2013-02-25 04:05:58 PM  
just try it. Some people here hate it. Some like it (me included). I do not get the hate nor have i missed a start screen and I'm actually starting to like metro. It took me awhile to configure it how i want but now it's nice to pull it up and use. It has been rock solid and have not encountered any real problems. So for me it works fine and i'm glad i upgraded.
 
2013-02-25 04:07:20 PM  

cman: Rwa2play: ha-ha-guy: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

The good thing is MS can recover from this, if they want.  Win8 has solid internals and all you need to do is churn out a classic GUI style for Windows 9.  Win7 is glorious and really it is just Vista SP 2.5, so turning around Win8 can't be that hard.

What I'm getting is that Win 8 under the hood is great...but the interface just kills your desire to play with it.

The interface is so bad that you will want to use bleach on your eyes


CSB time:  Went to get a new monitor Friday night and decided to play with a Windows 8 machine (had done so before and didn't enjoy the experience)...wanted to get very very stabby when I couldn't just click out of IE 10 and back to the desktop.

I, for one, wonder who was the genius that didn't say to the PTB the following: "Why don't we give our customers the option of using the Luna-styled interface or Metro at installation?"

And, if they did, I'd like to know his/her superior that shot down that idea.
 
2013-02-25 04:08:34 PM  
yukichigai:
You've never had to run a command prompt?

I, too, have no idea what you are talking about.  There are lots of ways to open the command prompt, including Win+r and typing cmd, which I tend to just do out of habit.  You can also press Win and then type "com", or "pr" to bring it up depending on what other programs you have installed.  You can pin it to the task bar, the start menu or your desktop.

I honestly do not know what you are referring to specifically.
 
2013-02-25 04:10:07 PM  
yukichigai:
Login screen, for one.

I just tested this, any action at all besides moving the mouse lets you start typing.  Any keystroke or click and then just type your password.  In fact, moving the mouse is the one thing that WON'T work.
 
2013-02-25 04:10:25 PM  
i like how none of this has anything to do with W8.  best buy didnt sell enough machines at christmas (or anything over the last several years) and needs to move those boxes.  it just happens to be W8 because they said customers like them.  im not pro W8 mind you.  im still using 7 and skipped vista altogether.  maybe 9 will be okay but im not holding my breath.

but the article was about BB, not the state of W8 as a whole.  i bought my last cell phone there but otherwise nothing from BB in 12 years.  they just cant compete on any product with any other retailer anymore.
 
2013-02-25 04:10:31 PM  
I recently "upgraded" to Window 8 Pro when it was on sale for $40 a few weeks ago.

The good:
The design overall is very minimalist and I really like that a lot. The upgrade process was almost totally painless - hands down the smoothest OS upgrade/install I've ever done. The new file copy dialogue box is pretty awesome. $40 bucks and I have my first ever fully legit Windows install! If they priced the previous ones like this I might have bought earlier versions of Windows, but I'm a working class dude so $300 for an OS is a big chunk of cash for me and is going to make me pirate it - sorry, it might not be fair or right but it's the truth... $40 though was great, so I snatched it up. DirectX 11.1 - which maybe some day I might possibly use, maybe... we'll see.

The bad:
It's slower... On the exact same hardware that I was running Windows 7 (intel i5 CPU, 16 gigs of RAM, 560Ti OC video card, etc...) the basic functions - like opening windows, starting programs, copying files - all have a noticeable slight delay under Win8 that they didn't have under Win7. And on a machine with mine's specs basic stuff like that should not show much of a difference. The new Metro interface I think I would grow fond of on a tablet.... but on my gaming machine it's complete dogshiat - so I hid it immediately. It seems like a waste because there's actually no NEED to upgrade to 8, because 7 pretty much does everything 8 does except for Metro (which I don't want on an actual PC anyway) and DirectX 11.1 (which won't matter until I get a 3D monitor anyway, and still probably not for quite a while after that) - and in my experience 7 provides a more responsive GUI. No Start button with its program list to find that one program you only use once a month or something (and have I mentioned yet that Metro is a shiatty substitute on a PC? Because it really is).


I think I will probably be downgrading back to 7 soon, unless they issue a patch soon. The extra moment or two when I open a window may not seem like much... but on my gaming machine I notice it, and being that it wasn't there under 7 - on the same damn hardware - it annoys me.

The good news though, is that if you really do need DirectX 11.1 or something then you're going to love the upgrade process.
 
2013-02-25 04:11:56 PM  

Beta Tested: yukichigai:
You've never had to run a command prompt?

I, too, have no idea what you are talking about.  There are lots of ways to open the command prompt, including Win+r and typing cmd, which I tend to just do out of habit.  You can also press Win and then type "com", or "pr" to bring it up depending on what other programs you have installed.  You can pin it to the task bar, the start menu or your desktop.

I honestly do not know what you are referring to specifically.


That was in response to him saying he never had to type in his program names before.  All of those things you listed there involved typing.
 
2013-02-25 04:12:10 PM  

yukichigai: And this right here is why as a gamer I will never use Windows 8.  I mean I guess I'm in the minority here who doesn't want their solo effort taking down Crawmerax to be interrupted by the Charms Bar helpfully popping up and stealing focus.


I game a lot and have never had this happen, are you playing in normal fullscreen or in borderless mode?  borderless mode is sort of designed for you to be able to access the OS functions.
 
2013-02-25 04:13:08 PM  
Well except pinning it :P
 
2013-02-25 04:13:59 PM  

Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


It's because of Metro. More to the point, it's that desktop users have the Metro interface forced on them. If Win8 provided the option to easily switch back and forth without having to download and install third-party software, it would be more well received.

The interface is key, and I hate, hate, HATE having to learn a new interface when the old one worked so well. I held onto my Office 2003 as long as possible until my computer crapped out and I had to upgrade. TO be fair, I like a lot of the Office 2010 features, but I miss my old interface. It made sense to me, and I should have the option to use the previous interface if I want. I still resent being forced to use the new system. I can appreciate giving people the option, but there was no need to toss what worked and force people to use a clunky new system that I still find slower than using the old system.

So yes, Metro is the reason for the hate, and deservedly so. The simple option would be to have Win8 use the regular configuration for desktops and Metro for tablets. It auto-detects and configures accordingly. If you want to switch over, it shouldn't take more than two or three clicks, because giving consumers the option will make it more appealing. There, I've solved the Win8 dilema.
 
2013-02-25 04:14:18 PM  
Windows 8 is fine.

The real problem Microsoft has is that windows 7 is too good, and nobody wants to upgrade because there is no compelling reason to.
 
2013-02-25 04:14:52 PM  
yukichigai:
That was in response to him saying he never had to type in his program names before.  All of those things you listed there involved typing.

Typing is just the fastest way, I listed 2 ways at the end to get to it without typing.  At this point I am pretty sure you are being intentionally obtuse and trolling.
 
2013-02-25 04:15:28 PM  

MrSteve007: What a derpy headline, considering this is a meat of the article: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

They're lowing the prices of touchscreen PC's by $100, because people like using Win 8 on a touchscreen. And this is somehow news?


It's news to those who mistakenly thought they knew how supply and demand work.
 
2013-02-25 04:15:31 PM  

yukichigai:
And this right here is why as a gamer I will never use Windows 8.  I mean I guess I'm in the minority here who doesn't want their solo effort taking down Crawmerax to be interrupted by the Charms Bar helpfully popping up and stealing focus.

I game fine, but I do run in full screen mode, which pre-empts this.  If you run windows or borderless windowed, then maybe you have a problem there.  I'll grant that could be an issue.

MightyPez: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

This covers the complaints quite nicely


Reading it now, but I'm already finding stuff that is just not true.

It claims it uses double the memory, but my memory usage has decreased since I switched.  Benchmarking generally shows an (albeit modest) improvement to performance within the Win8 environment.  Complaints about not knowing which "environment" to use?  The Start Screen is only an "environment" for single-purpose apps; it's like "Big Picture" mode for Steam.  Otherwise, it's a full-screen start menu that is easier to customize visually.

As for claims that it can't run more than one window?  I'm running 5 windows right now (Steam, Steam Message, Control Panel, File Explorer and Chrome), with no problem.  Oh, he means within the start screen?  I wasn't aware that it was designed for multitasking; that's what the desktop is for.

The guy complains that it's hard to know where to click to make it do something, by showing a picture of several icons.  Why doesn't he try clicking on the little pictures?  The people in idiocracy knew how to do that shiat:
 
2.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size


The gripes about the "low information density" of Start Screen apps?  Perfectly valid, especially about 5 months ago when there were a lot fewer apps by only a few sources.  Now, if you want higher information density, there's a wide variety of apps from all over the place.  And you can still use the damn desktop.

Live tiles complaint?  If you have trouble figuring out which apps are which (guessing maybe you forgot how you arranged them that way and why), you can right click and disable the live tile function.  The Charms bar?  Yeah, fairly useless for the most part.  Would've worked better with a standard set of tiles you can choose to use or not use on your screen.

That article seems to assume that you use the Start Screen for almost everything on the planet, ignoring that they give you a big "Desktop" tile on the Start Screen for a reason.  Start Screen is a big start menu that can run single-purpose apps.  I'm pretty sure they didn't design it for everyone to live in it.  The single-purpose apps are good for a quick morning briefing before work, not for doing all your work on 'em.
 
2013-02-25 04:16:39 PM  

Beta Tested: yukichigai: And this right here is why as a gamer I will never use Windows 8.  I mean I guess I'm in the minority here who doesn't want their solo effort taking down Crawmerax to be interrupted by the Charms Bar helpfully popping up and stealing focus.

I game a lot and have never had this happen, are you playing in normal fullscreen or in borderless mode?  borderless mode is sort of designed for you to be able to access the OS functions.


Dual-monitor user, so I frequently make use of "Fullscreen Windowed" mode so I can leave something open on the other monitor and access it, say a guide or a forum post or even just my chat window.  Even in normal Fullscreen mode though I've noticed that quite a few games seem to let the cursor wander invisibly when I'm controlling the game, so certain things will highlight when the invisible cursor is over them.  Clicks and such are redirected though, so it's never been an issue, but with a system that does things based solely on where your cursor IS, not where you click....

Out of curiosity, what games are you playing?  The most notable offenders I find are Gamebryo games like Fallout 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, New Vegas, etc., or even Borderlands 2 and a few others.
 
2013-02-25 04:17:23 PM  

mongbiohazard: I think I will probably be downgrading back to 7 soon, unless they issue a patch soon. The extra moment or two when I open a window may not seem like much... but on my gaming machine I notice it, and being that it wasn't there under 7 - on the same damn hardware - it annoys me.


Have you checked your power management settings? Sandy bridge processors clock down to like 1.6ghz when idle to save power, and if your power management is enabled, lots of things will never trigger the processor to step up to it's full speed.

Make sure all that shiat is turned off.
 
2013-02-25 04:17:24 PM  
One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
img198.imageshack.usView Full Size

And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.
 
2013-02-25 04:17:49 PM  

Beta Tested: yukichigai:
That was in response to him saying he never had to type in his program names before.  All of those things you listed there involved typing.

Typing is just the fastest way, I listed 2 ways at the end to get to it without typing.  At this point I am pretty sure you are being intentionally obtuse and trolling.


I corrected my post immediately after, jackass.
 
2013-02-25 04:18:20 PM  
I like it, its pretty damn easy to avoid the metro interface entirely.
 
2013-02-25 04:19:21 PM  

yukichigai: ColdFusion: I typically used the Start Button to access my programs. Never needed to type in it before.

You've never had to run a command prompt?


Sounds like you're going about it some bizarre convoluted way instead of using Win+R and then typing 'cmd'.  Like a boss.
 
2013-02-25 04:21:58 PM  

ColdFusion: yukichigai: ColdFusion: I typically used the Start Button to access my programs. Never needed to type in it before.

You've never had to run a command prompt?

Sounds like you're going about it some bizarre convoluted way instead of using Win+R and then typing 'cmd'.  Like a boss.


I'm bolding the two parts here where you contradicted yourself and completely missed the point I was trying to make.
 
2013-02-25 04:22:03 PM  

red5ish: One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
[img198.imageshack.us image 606x341]
And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.


It's also clear at a glance what each item on that menu is, making it faster. I'm sorry it doesn't have curved edges and gradients.

To make my point, below is a very shiny pretty icon. Which gives you no farking clue at all what it is or does.

icons.iconarchive.comView Full Size


If you don't know what that icon is, you'll never guess its purpose.
 
2013-02-25 04:23:16 PM  

LikeALeafOnTheWind: I like it, its pretty damn easy to avoid the metro interface entirely.


Yes...but to people that were weened on the Luna interface (from 95 onwards), it's jarring and confusing.
 
2013-02-25 04:24:44 PM  
blogcdn.comView Full Size

Goodbye, Mac.  I'm off to get Fisher-Price icons tattooed all over me.
 
2013-02-25 04:25:14 PM  
Skip every other OS release.  7 was a good.  Time to skip.
 
2013-02-25 04:25:49 PM  

yukichigai: Dual-monitor user, so I frequently make use of "Fullscreen Windowed" mode so I can leave something open on the other monitor and access it, say a guide or a forum post or even just my chat window.  Even in normal Fullscreen mode though I've noticed that quite a few games seem to let the cursor wander invisibly when I'm controlling the game, so certain things will highlight when the invisible cursor is over them.  Clicks and such are redirected though, so it's never been an issue, but with a system that does things based solely on where your cursor IS, not where you click....

Out of curiosity, what games are you playing?  The most notable offenders I find are Gamebryo games like Fallout 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, New Vegas, etc., or even Borderlands 2 and a few others.


I play all of those, but not in borderless mode.  The mouse skipping off isn't an OS thing, it is the executable that governs mouse behavior in different environments.  If you run game borderless with multiple monitors you are going to get some strange behavior with the cursor, I can't think of a way around it.  Borderlands 2 is Unreal.  I've never had issues with any of them.
 
2013-02-25 04:27:34 PM  

ColdFusion: yukichigai: ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?

Login screen, for one.

Huh.  On mine, I just click anywhere and it pops straight to the username and password entry screen.


stevetherobot: ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?

Basically anything that you would have clicked the Start button for.

I typically used the Start Button to access my programs.  Never needed to type in it before.


I guess I misunderstood the question.  I thought they were talking about how you bring up the Charms bar or icon bar or whatever you call it.

Speaking of which, is there a better way to access programs than to move your mouse to the corner to bring up the Charms bar and then click on Search?
 
2013-02-25 04:28:09 PM  

cgraves67: I tried Win8 on a touchscreen laptop this weekend. I felt it was a positive experience, but I could quickly see how using the live-tile display would be a pain with a mouse and using a 28" touchscreen monitor would be a pain as well. So it's not really a good idea for desktops. However the touchscreen laptop was, perhaps, the perfect application for it.


I have no doubt in my mind that it's great on a tablet.
 
2013-02-25 04:28:13 PM  

yukichigai: ColdFusion: yukichigai: ColdFusion: I typically used the Start Button to access my programs. Never needed to type in it before.

You've never had to run a command prompt?

Sounds like you're going about it some bizarre convoluted way instead of using Win+R and then typing 'cmd'.  Like a boss.

I'm bolding the two parts here where you contradicted yourself and completely missed the point I was trying to make.


Win+R opens a WINDOW.  Not the Start Screen/Menu.  I don't input text into the Start Screen/Menu, I type it into a window called "Run".  I didn't have to touch anything with "Start" in the name.

Nor did I have to  "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt".  Indeed, I didn't click anything.  Didn't even have to touch the mouse.  Win+R and 'cmd' are on the keyboard.
 
2013-02-25 04:29:42 PM  
I don't use the Windows 8 features as far as I can tell; I just go to the Windows 7-type desktop and go from there. Also, it demands I activate it every couple of hours; which of course I've already done. It won't let me enter the code that I own legally and fair; I tried to call a Microsoft rep about it but got stuck in an Indian nightmare so I hung up.

Windows 7 was better. No question. Windows 8 seems like Windows 7 with some colory icons added.
 
2013-02-25 04:30:12 PM  

ColdFusion: It claims it uses double the memory, but my memory usage has decreased since I switched.


At no point does it say this. I don't think you're actually reading the article, just skimming bullet points.

Hint: "Memory" in the context of this article does not refer to anything in the computer
Hint 2: Read the top of the website on what the consulting group does
 
2013-02-25 04:31:09 PM  

stevetherobot: ColdFusion: yukichigai: ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?

Login screen, for one.

Huh.  On mine, I just click anywhere and it pops straight to the username and password entry screen.


stevetherobot: ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?

Basically anything that you would have clicked the Start button for.

I typically used the Start Button to access my programs.  Never needed to type in it before.

I guess I misunderstood the question.  I thought they were talking about how you bring up the Charms bar or icon bar or whatever you call it.

Speaking of which, is there a better way to access programs than to move your mouse to the corner to bring up the Charms bar and then click on Search?


Hit the Win key and start typing. Typing in the metro/start screen automatically starts searching.
 
2013-02-25 04:31:39 PM  

stevetherobot: ColdFusion: yukichigai: ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?

Login screen, for one.

Huh.  On mine, I just click anywhere and it pops straight to the username and password entry screen.


stevetherobot: ColdFusion: What are you doing that requires click-drags on the desktop to reveal text prompts?

Basically anything that you would have clicked the Start button for.

I typically used the Start Button to access my programs.  Never needed to type in it before.

I guess I misunderstood the question.  I thought they were talking about how you bring up the Charms bar or icon bar or whatever you call it.

Speaking of which, is there a better way to access programs than to move your mouse to the corner to bring up the Charms bar and then click on Search?


Open Start Screen, right-click anywhere that isn't an app tile.  Go to the lower right corner and click "All Apps".  It'll give you a full list of everything available.  If you use a program often enough, you should right click it to pin it to your taskbar or start screen for quick launching.
 
2013-02-25 04:31:49 PM  

yukichigai: I'm bolding the two parts here where you contradicted yourself and completely missed the point I was trying to make.


If everyone missed your point then you didn't make it very well.  Now, it can be hard to follow things in a busy thread since it is like having a conversation in a loud room, and I complete lost your point since you were responding in one liners.  It helps to explain a bit first.

He was probably intimating that after you pin something you never have to type to get there again, and he probably pins commonly used items.  And, in fact, you can access everything without typing at all to pin stuff (click all apps).  Although better and faster searching is one of the good things about Win8 and the new start menu, so I don't know why you wouldn't use it.

You also picked a poor example by calling out the command prompt, which is easily accessed without leaving the desktop the the run screen.  That led to further confusion, you would have been better off picking something you'd normally go to the start menu for.

And I apologize for calling you a troll.
 
2013-02-25 04:32:27 PM  

Confabulat: Also, it demands I activate it every couple of hours; which of course I've already done.


ITT: someone with pirate software complains it doesn't work right....
 
2013-02-25 04:33:02 PM  

soporific: So yes, Metro is the reason for the hate, and deservedly so. The simple option would be to have Win8 use the regular configuration for desktops and Metro for tablets. It auto-detects and configures accordingly. If you want to switch over, it shouldn't take more than two or three clicks, because giving consumers the option will make it more appealing. There, I've solved the Win8 dilema.


That's a good idea, if you want to keep users in their computing UI comfort zone.

Microsoft is betting on the Metro-style interface They're attempting to standardize the UI between desktops, laptops, tablets, phones and the TV (via Xbox).

They don't want you to stick with the old systems, they want to unify the UI for all devices - which in the long-run, makes sense.
 
2013-02-25 04:33:02 PM  

Beta Tested: yukichigai:
You've never had to run a command prompt?

I, too, have no idea what you are talking about.  There are lots of ways to open the command prompt, including Win+r and typing cmd, which I tend to just do out of habit.  You can also press Win and then type "com", or "pr" to bring it up depending on what other programs you have installed.  You can pin it to the task bar, the start menu or your desktop.

I honestly do not know what you are referring to specifically.


That's another thing I don't like about Windows 8. Pressing the Win key now brings up the Metro UI.
 
2013-02-25 04:33:27 PM  

red5ish: One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
[img198.imageshack.us image 606x341]
And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.


yeah, looks like the new paint scheme for a teenager's bedroom in a home depot commercial.  this is what you get when you let women design things for men.  sheesh.

/i keed
//kind of
 
2013-02-25 04:35:22 PM  

stevetherobot: That's another thing I don't like about Windows 8. Pressing the Win key now brings up the Metro UI.


That isn't the Metro UI, it is the start menu, the new and better designed one.  Pressing the windows key in Win7 also opens the start menu.
 
2013-02-25 04:35:27 PM  

ColdFusion: Reading it now, but I'm already finding stuff that is just not true.


Are you not familiar with Jakob Nielsen? Because your comments seem to presume that he is some know-nothing blogger who can be disregarded as having no authority or ability to deliver valid criticism.
 
2013-02-25 04:37:54 PM  

Beta Tested: stevetherobot: That's another thing I don't like about Windows 8. Pressing the Win key now brings up the Metro UI.

That isn't the Metro UI, it is the start menu, the new and better designed one.  Pressing the windows key in Win7 also opens the start menu.


That's a matter of opinion.
 
2013-02-25 04:39:38 PM  

stevetherobot: Beta Tested: stevetherobot: That's another thing I don't like about Windows 8. Pressing the Win key now brings up the Metro UI.

That isn't the Metro UI, it is the start menu, the new and better designed one.  Pressing the windows key in Win7 also opens the start menu.

That's a matter of opinion.


A large part of my job is UI design, it is objectively better and uses better design principles.  How it looks aesthetically is a matter of opinion (I personally like it).
 
2013-02-25 04:42:26 PM  

MrSteve007: soporific: So yes, Metro is the reason for the hate, and deservedly so. The simple option would be to have Win8 use the regular configuration for desktops and Metro for tablets. It auto-detects and configures accordingly. If you want to switch over, it shouldn't take more than two or three clicks, because giving consumers the option will make it more appealing. There, I've solved the Win8 dilema.

That's a good idea, if you want to keep users in their computing UI comfort zone.

Microsoft is betting on the Metro-style interface They're attempting to standardize the UI between desktops, laptops, tablets, phones and the TV (via Xbox).

They don't want you to stick with the old systems, they want to unify the UI for all devices - which in the long-run, makes sense.


No offense but...hasn't Apple already accomplished this with their OS on both their Mac and their IDevices?
 
2013-02-25 04:42:44 PM  

MightyPez: ColdFusion: It claims it uses double the memory, but my memory usage has decreased since I switched.

At no point does it say this. I don't think you're actually reading the article, just skimming bullet points.

Hint: "Memory" in the context of this article does not refer to anything in the computer
Hint 2: Read the top of the website on what the consulting group does


Ah, so basically, their gripe is that Windows 8 is too hard for people to remember how to use?  I'm sure it's a fine and respectable firm and all, and I'm sure their research into Windows 8 was rigorous.

But Windows 8 is just Windows 7 with a Start Screen instead of a Start Menu plus a few minor things like the Charms Bar (which does suck).  That's really all it is in terms of UI.  Excepting the first 30 minutes of figuring things out and googling stuff, I've really noticed not much of a difference except that I can run a dedicated app for internet radio in a sidebar.

Now, my mom is having a small bit of trouble with her new touchscreen laptop, but she's never been good with any version of Windows beyond basic functionality.  The switch from Win7 to Win8 has been as jarring for her as the switch from WinVista to Win 7, from WinXP to WinVista, from Win9x to WinXP (I managed to keep her away from WinME) and Win3 to Win9x.  Every time, she has had to deal with a "zomg things are different and I'm not good with computers" problem whenever Windows moved up another level.

For those folks, I imagine Win8 is gonna suck balls for a couple days, and then it's back to Windows-as-usual.
 
2013-02-25 04:43:04 PM  

red5ish: One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
[img198.imageshack.us image 606x341]
And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.


I don't really have a problem with the look.  I DO have a problem with it insisting on both taking up an entire monitor and having only one level of organizational depth.  On my dual-screen setup I really wouldn't mind it doing a whole screen, since I usually have a "biatch monitor" that I shove unimportant things off to anyway.  On my laptop though (my non-touchscreen laptop with the huge beautiful display) it seems rather unnecessary and disruptive.  I'm a big boy; I can handle having something in the background while I figure out what other program I want to run.

The lack of nested menu organization is a killer though.  I like things to be organized into groupings of program type (Audio, Video, Game, Maintenance, etc.), then folders for each individual program if they have multiple components/etc.  Instead you get one level and that's it.  That's just bad.
 
2013-02-25 04:43:05 PM  

Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


This, Windows 8 is measurably better than Windows 7 in almost every way. It is faster, more stable, and has tons of useful built in features like a better task manager, better file transfer and true don't have to bother with security/maintenance. Sure it takes a few days to get used to but even if you do want the start menu back you have options. Whatever though.
 
2013-02-25 04:50:33 PM  

red5ish: ColdFusion: Reading it now, but I'm already finding stuff that is just not true.

Are you not familiar with Jakob Nielsen? Because your comments seem to presume that he is some know-nothing blogger who can be disregarded as having no authority or ability to deliver valid criticism.


Does his authority in any field exempt his points from scrutiny?  Because I was pretty sure those still have to stand on their own.

""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Here's a screenshot of my computer right now using multiple windows:
http://i.imgur.com/zgMT3YM.png

But he's Jakob Nielson, therefore what is right in my face isn't real.  Right?
 
2013-02-25 04:55:40 PM  

Beta Tested: yukichigai: Dual-monitor user, so I frequently make use of "Fullscreen Windowed" mode so I can leave something open on the other monitor and access it, say a guide or a forum post or even just my chat window.  Even in normal Fullscreen mode though I've noticed that quite a few games seem to let the cursor wander invisibly when I'm controlling the game, so certain things will highlight when the invisible cursor is over them.  Clicks and such are redirected though, so it's never been an issue, but with a system that does things based solely on where your cursor IS, not where you click....

Out of curiosity, what games are you playing?  The most notable offenders I find are Gamebryo games like Fallout 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, New Vegas, etc., or even Borderlands 2 and a few others.

I play all of those, but not in borderless mode.  The mouse skipping off isn't an OS thing, it is the executable that governs mouse behavior in different environments.  If you run game borderless with multiple monitors you are going to get some strange behavior with the cursor, I can't think of a way around it.  Borderlands 2 is Unreal.  I've never had issues with any of them.


None of those are being played in bordleress mode save for Borderlands 2.  Gamebryo games don't have "Fullscreen Windowed".

Of course the real issue is that "Fullscree Windowed" is a relatively new feature meant to provide more convenience to gamers.  Now because of how Windows 8 works, the feature will instead cause problems.  Game companies innovate, Windows f%$#s it up.

MrSteve007: Microsoft is betting on the Metro-style interface They're attempting to standardize the UI between desktops, laptops, tablets, phones and the TV (via Xbox).

They don't want you to stick with the old systems, they want to unify the UI for all devices - which in the long-run, makes sense.


It would make sense if their UI was equally useable for everyone's input methods.  The UI they're betting on is whiz-bang awesome for touch-input methods but awkward for keyboard+mouse.  The only way that would be viable is if keyboard+mouse stopped being relevant, and if you've looked at any gaming setup or office desktop in the last, well, EVER, you know that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Beta Tested: yukichigai: I'm bolding the two parts here where you contradicted yourself and completely missed the point I was trying to make.

If everyone missed your point then you didn't make it very well.  Now, it can be hard to follow things in a busy thread since it is like having a conversation in a loud room, and I complete lost your point since you were responding in one liners.  It helps to explain a bit first.

He was probably intimating that after you pin something you never have to type to get there again, and he probably pins commonly used items.  And, in fact, you can access everything without typing at all to pin stuff (click all apps).  Although better and faster searching is one of the good things about Win8 and the new start menu, so I don't know why you wouldn't use it.

You also picked a poor example by calling out the command prompt, which is easily accessed without leaving the desktop the the run screen.  That led to further confusion, you would have been better off picking something you'd normally go to the start menu for.

And I apologize for calling you a troll.

 
2013-02-25 04:56:21 PM  
Erm, I meant to reply with "alright, fair enough.  Sorry I went high-order there too".  But then Fark ate it so... yay?
 
2013-02-25 04:57:47 PM  
So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.

People keep acting like Metro is the main GUI.  It isn't.It's there for tablet users, but when you're on a desktop there's no reason you need to use it at all, if you don't want to. Even if you do use it like it's meant to be used on a desktop (as a Start menu, and that's it; Not as the replacement for the desktop) you might find that it's way more customizable and flexible than the previous start menu.

No, I think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon. They've not used Win 8, but they're CERTAIN it sucks because they saw some pictures of the Metro interface and clicked it a couple times at Best Buy.
 
2013-02-25 05:00:40 PM  
Windows 8 is schizophrenic. You have the "metro" world and the 99.8% of your software that isn't metro aware you get pushed to the "classic" view. So wtf is the point of the metro start. Not to mention the ass ugly tiles. Does anyone like that? Do they like it on the xbox where most of the screen is taken up by these boxes pushes ads while you try and find where your goddamn game list is.


I tried using it. I removed all the metro gunk, set up my software in the metro tiles only to have to swoosh over the classic anyway. I do spend a lot of time in file management on the desktop and its file i/o reminds me of Vista pre-sp1. Horribly slow in various scenarios. For example I try and open a .rar file with WinRAR from my NAS only to wait 20+ seconds for something that should be instantaneous.  So, now I have to start looking for software that probably has to be rewritten because MS changed or removed some api's.


Why bother struggling with an OS that ought to be transparent to your actual use of the computer?  There is good news however, Windows 9 comes out in a few months! So when it comes to Windows 8: Pass.

 
2013-02-25 05:02:22 PM  

MightyPez: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

This covers the complaints quite nicely


I find it interesting how the author had to put the "I'm no fanboy or hater" disclaimer at the bottom when the article was merely constructive criticism.
 
2013-02-25 05:02:57 PM  

ZeroCorpse: When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button.


That word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

Also, I'm a pretty hard core PC gamer and I haven't noticed any speed improvement in games at all.  They don't load any faster, and they already ran pretty well to begin with.

Also, I had to add the Start Button back because, as I noted upthread, hot corners are a nightmare if you have multiple monitors.
 
2013-02-25 05:04:28 PM  

ZeroCorpse: People keep acting like Metro is the main GUI.  It isn't.


You mean the place you are immediately dumped into after starting the computer isn't the primary method of input? That seems like an odd design choice.

but when you're on a desktop there's no reason you need to use it at all

Well, unless you apply third party hacks or start editing the registry, yeah you do. As mentioned, it's the place you are brought to every time to login.
 
2013-02-25 05:04:50 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: theurge14: Marcus Aurelius:
They didn't force the chief architect to use Windows 8 on a real computer with twin 24" monitors mounted at arm's length.  They fell in love with their little pad computers and completely lost track of their base, 99% of whom do not have a touch screen monitor.

I'm no market analyst but I can tell from Photoshops I've seen of PC sales charts that twin-monitor desktops are not what is selling, and not their "base".  I'm also kinda bad at basic math without using a calculator but I'm pretty sure 99% is a bullshiat number pulled out of the butt of a brontosaurus in bullshiat land.

All my numbers are based on a vast sample of over 7 different people, so I don't know how you can say that.  I'm hurt.


Like I said, basic math usually eludes me so it's my bad.  I don't know where the brontosaurus butt comment came from so I'm a little bit worried about what that says about me.
 
2013-02-25 05:05:14 PM  
Usually FUD campaigns like the one that's been directed at W8 are secretly bankrolled by a competitor. W8 works perfectly as it's designed, and if you don't like the way it's designed, there are ways to change it that only require a modest level of computer savvy. It's not even close to being like ME.

I wonder how many negative reviews have been bought by Apple.
 
2013-02-25 05:05:51 PM  

ZeroCorpse: So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.

People keep acting like Metro is the main GUI.  It isn't.It's there for tablet users, but when you're on a desktop there's no reason you need to use it at all, if you don't want to. Even if you do use it like it's meant to be used on a desktop (as a Start menu, and that's it; Not as the replacement for the desktop) you might find that it's way more customizable and flexible than the previous start menu.

No, I think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon. They've not used Win 8, but they're CERTAIN it sucks because they saw some pictures of the Metro interface and clicked it a couple times at Best Buy.


That's pretty much what's been driving me up the wall about this.  I'm not attached to Win8, but I hate to see people spew uninformed nonsense about a perfectly good OS.  It's got a lot of features and customization that's made things a lot faster for me, but otherwise it's just a faster Windows 7.
 
2013-02-25 05:07:08 PM  

theurge14: I find it interesting how the author had to put the "I'm no fanboy or hater" disclaimer at the bottom when the article was merely constructive criticism.


Probably because the author typically sees similar comments like in this thread such as:

You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8

Disliking a design choice CLEARLY means you are working for someone else unless you declare it not true. And even then we must be suspicious...
 
2013-02-25 05:07:10 PM  

MrSteve007: soporific: So yes, Metro is the reason for the hate, and deservedly so. The simple option would be to have Win8 use the regular configuration for desktops and Metro for tablets. It auto-detects and configures accordingly. If you want to switch over, it shouldn't take more than two or three clicks, because giving consumers the option will make it more appealing. There, I've solved the Win8 dilema.

That's a good idea, if you want to keep users in their computing UI comfort zone.

Microsoft is betting on the Metro-style interface They're attempting to standardize the UI between desktops, laptops, tablets, phones and the TV (via Xbox).

They don't want you to stick with the old systems, they want to unify the UI for all devices - which in the long-run, makes sense.


On paper it sounds like a good idea, but in practice it's shown not to be that simple.  I think this may be another example of the classic case of making things easier on developers at the expense of the users.
 
2013-02-25 05:07:48 PM  

fluffy2097: It's also clear at a glance what each item on that menu is, making it faster. I'm sorry it doesn't have curved edges and gradients.


In order to determine whether or not it is "faster" you would have to do end user tests. I wonder how "fast" giving equal weight/size to icons that represent seldom used applications really is. Once you have a LOT of applications on your computer your real increase in efficiency would come from categorizing and prioritizing your menu items. Does the Windows 8 UI allow you to organize your start menu, change the icon colors, change the size of the icons, in order to promote a rational organization of the displayed choices? Because without being able to do that the menu begins to look like a dog's breakfast.

I too am sorry that it doesn't have 'curved edges and gradients' because those features make the user experience more pleasant. A menu display with the aesthetic sensibility of the periodic table of elements isn't particularly compelling. Of course, if Microsoft's goal was to make a product that many users find annoying AND ugly at the same time they have succeeded. What makes sense for a tablet or phone with small screens and fat fingers looks like crap on a large desktop display. You may not care if it looks good, but I, and a lot of other people, do care.
 
2013-02-25 05:12:26 PM  
ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.
 
2013-02-25 05:13:23 PM  

Rwa2play: MrSteve007: soporific: So yes, Metro is the reason for the hate, and deservedly so. The simple option would be to have Win8 use the regular configuration for desktops and Metro for tablets. It auto-detects and configures accordingly. If you want to switch over, it shouldn't take more than two or three clicks, because giving consumers the option will make it more appealing. There, I've solved the Win8 dilema.

That's a good idea, if you want to keep users in their computing UI comfort zone.

Microsoft is betting on the Metro-style interface They're attempting to standardize the UI between desktops, laptops, tablets, phones and the TV (via Xbox).

They don't want you to stick with the old systems, they want to unify the UI for all devices - which in the long-run, makes sense.

No offense but...hasn't Apple already accomplished this with their OS on both their Mac and their IDevices?


Well, yes and no.  Yes, Apple has already made an effort to unify the UI between the Mac and iOS devices, and No they still kept them distinct.  For example, in Snow Leopard they introduced a side-swiping Applications window on the Dock that mimicked the home screen of the iPhone.  Instead of making it the default home screen on the Mac, they made it an icon on the Dock you can click into and use optionally.  Is this the right approach?  I don't know what their user studies show them but I imagine taking an extreme like forcing a new desktop paradigm without checking into that is probably not a good idea.
 
2013-02-25 05:16:00 PM  

red5ish: I too am sorry that it doesn't have 'curved edges and gradients' because those features make the user experience more pleasant. A menu display with the aesthetic sensibility of the periodic table of elements isn't particularly compelling.


Speak for yourself. Personally I think the OSX-style "make everything look like faux glass and chrome" look is hideous and horribly dated. I'm looking at little blobs of light on a screen. I don't need to pretend those blobs of light are physical materials, geometric shapes and minimalist colors are exactly what I want. I'd have the GUI in monochrome if I could.

As long as the stupid live tiles are turned off.
 
2013-02-25 05:17:09 PM  

swaxhog: Windows 8 is schizophrenic. You have the "metro" world and the 99.8% of your software that isn't metro aware you get pushed to the "classic" view. So wtf is the point of the metro start. Not to mention the ass ugly tiles. Does anyone like that? Do they like it on the xbox where most of the screen is taken up by these boxes pushes ads while you try and find where your goddamn game list is.


Yesterday on the Games tab on my XBOX dashboard I had the little bitty Skyrim tile dwarfed by a giant Oscars update with a shiny plasticy looking tile of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie on the red carpet.  I then realized that I play games on a tabloid.  :(
 
2013-02-25 05:18:40 PM  

Lsherm: Also, I'm a pretty hard core PC gamer and I haven't noticed any speed improvement in games at all.  They don't load any faster, and they already ran pretty well to begin with.


Most benchmarks done comparing Win7 to Win8 have noted a modest improvement in performance.  It's consistent but not huge.  Average is about 3-8 frames per second.  If you already have >30 frames per second, it's pretty much not noticible.  But it's there.
 
2013-02-25 05:22:07 PM  

Gunny Walker: ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.


So, the guy is wrong about multiple windows being unsupported even if you're confined to the Metro environment.

But I'm the dumbass nobody and he's Jakob Nielson, which means I'm wrong according to some.
 
2013-02-25 05:23:15 PM  

Gunny Walker: ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.


Yeah, that's not really much better.  It certainly feels clunky as hell.
 
2013-02-25 05:23:37 PM  
One other thing I can't figure out for the life of me is my wifi randomly slows down to almost non existent in spite of the display indicating I have a very strong signal (i'm 5 feet from the router). Didn't have this issue with my old windows 7 laptop, but I definitely noticed it with this new machine. Sometimes I can't even pull up speedtest because the connection runs so slow it times out. Anyone else have this issue? I've so far tried a number of things from changing channels etc to some more harebrained settings changes all to no avail.
 
2013-02-25 05:24:38 PM  

yukichigai: Gunny Walker: ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.

Yeah, that's not really much better.  It certainly feels clunky as hell.


Then stick to regular windows programs within the desktop environment and don't use Metro Apps that you're in no way obligated to use?
 
2013-02-25 05:25:07 PM  

theurge14: Yesterday on the Games tab on my XBOX dashboard I had the little bitty Skyrim tile dwarfed by a giant Oscars update with a shiny plasticy looking tile of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie on the red carpet. I then realized that I play games on a tabloid. :(


I saw that on the main tab, but not the games tab. . . 

That said, the emphasis on live content is due to the fact that more people use their Xbox to view video entertainment content than play video games.

For people like me, who have no satellite, antenna, or cable TV, being able to watch live events on Xbox is pretty nice.
 
2013-02-25 05:27:52 PM  
Seriously?  Nobody has posted this yet?

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2013-02-25 05:30:02 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: One other thing I can't figure out for the life of me is my wifi randomly slows down to almost non existent in spite of the display indicating I have a very strong signal (i'm 5 feet from the router). Didn't have this issue with my old windows 7 laptop, but I definitely noticed it with this new machine. Sometimes I can't even pull up speedtest because the connection runs so slow it times out. Anyone else have this issue? I've so far tried a number of things from changing channels etc to some more harebrained settings changes all to no avail.


Have you run Windows Update in the last couple weeks?  When I got my laptop about a month or so ago, a few people with the same model complained on Amazon about this.  Turns out, according to them, it was easily fixed by running Windows Update and installing all the important updates and updated drivers.
 
2013-02-25 05:30:11 PM  
Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: red5ish: I too am sorry that it doesn't have 'curved edges and gradients' because those features make the user experience more pleasant. A menu display with the aesthetic sensibility of the periodic table of elements isn't particularly compelling.

Speak for yourself. Personally I think the OSX-style "make everything look like faux glass and chrome" look is hideous and horribly dated. I'm looking at little blobs of light on a screen. I don't need to pretend those blobs of light are physical materials, geometric shapes and minimalist colors are exactly what I want. I'd have the GUI in monochrome if I could.

The windows in OSX have been a flat grey gradient since 10.5.  I think you mean the Dock they introduced in 10.6 which reflects the window contents above it.  I'm not a big fan of it myself and I could do without it, but I consider it a small point since it's not terribly jarring and it's only in the Dock.

What's terribly jarring and a large point is the two-color icons in Windows 8 which make it difficult to tell what something is without reading the caption (making the icon rather pointless), the lack of any visual cue as to tell what is clickable and what is a label (in the old days of web browsers underlines blue text indicated a clickable hyperlink), and what others are calling low information density, something I noticed when I opened the Metro version of Internet Explorer for the first time (and yes I find it also troubling that  there are two different IE UIs, one in Desktop and one from the main tile).  The old IE would show toolbars and menus with information, the Metro one shows a single bar to type in and four monochrome icons with no caption.  I see what they're trying to do, but man are they going about it the wrong way.
 
2013-02-25 05:32:52 PM  

MrSteve007: theurge14: Yesterday on the Games tab on my XBOX dashboard I had the little bitty Skyrim tile dwarfed by a giant Oscars update with a shiny plasticy looking tile of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie on the red carpet. I then realized that I play games on a tabloid. :(

I saw that on the main tab, but not the games tab. . . 

That said, the emphasis on live content is due to the fact that more people use their Xbox to view video entertainment content than play video games.

For people like me, who have no satellite, antenna, or cable TV, being able to watch live events on Xbox is pretty nice.


My bad, it was the main tab.  I only play games on it.  My TV already has Netflix and Hulu.  But I understand.  I wish there was a way to rearrange all that stuff.
 
2013-02-25 05:34:01 PM  
and to think they could have avoided all of this if they'd just left a 'switch to classic mode/gimmie mah start button you asshole!' option.  Sorry people push it off as trivial but its not, its really not and its costing them dearly.  Too bad.
 
2013-02-25 05:34:08 PM  
img543.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2013-02-25 05:34:39 PM  
I do find Metro to be a minor annoyance on my desktop. Not so much so that I would nerdrage about it but it is somewhat disjoint from the rest of the UI.

That being said, I can postulate as to why they're pushing Metro so hard: their market share in tablets and touchscreen devices is miniscule. In order to get developers to make touchscreen apps, they need it to be the main interface even for big Windows on desktop.

I honestly don't mind. Like I said, it's a minor annoyance for desktop but as a media PC, metro is a fantastic interface. Ditto for a touchscreen desktop.
 
2013-02-25 05:38:53 PM  

ColdFusion: Communist_Manifesto: One other thing I can't figure out for the life of me is my wifi randomly slows down to almost non existent in spite of the display indicating I have a very strong signal (i'm 5 feet from the router). Didn't have this issue with my old windows 7 laptop, but I definitely noticed it with this new machine. Sometimes I can't even pull up speedtest because the connection runs so slow it times out. Anyone else have this issue? I've so far tried a number of things from changing channels etc to some more harebrained settings changes all to no avail.

Have you run Windows Update in the last couple weeks?  When I got my laptop about a month or so ago, a few people with the same model complained on Amazon about this.  Turns out, according to them, it was easily fixed by running Windows Update and installing all the important updates and updated drivers.


Yep :( I think that was one of the first things I tried. It's starting to drive me insane. My girlfriends computer doesn't have the issue, her tablet doesn't have the issue, my tablet doesn't do it AND my cell phone doesn't slow down. So far all of my googles have returned things that purportedly fix the problem but nothing does.
 
2013-02-25 05:39:34 PM  

ColdFusion: yukichigai: Gunny Walker: ColdFusion: ""Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen." is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

Link above shows how you can divide the screen into quarters.

Yeah, that's not really much better.  It certainly feels clunky as hell.

Then stick to regular windows programs within the desktop environment and don't use Metro Apps that you're in no way obligated to use?


Well yes, obviously.  It does make me wonder though how they intend to get people to use these new Metro Apps if they're not only awkward for desktop users, but they make the entire experience awkward when they're running at all.
 
2013-02-25 05:39:41 PM  

vudutek: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

Agreed. Win8 runs smoother than most MS crap they've put out in years, it's just a pain to navigate around the Metro crap. I can ALMOST understand them trying to standardize an interface between phone / tablet / desktop. but the bottom line is that it just doesn't work.I neither expect nor want my desktop to behave the same as my phone. Even if I did, I'd probably prefer Android as a base instead of MS.

Solkar: Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.

Me either. Metro sucks balls, but otherwise no real complaints.


The problem is when you're dealing in an enterprise environment the UI change is a real challenge for the less technical and the helpdesk has to spend more resources (read: time and money) on handholding employees who are less comfortable exploring on their own. This has an impact on P&L that MS is not taking into account.
 
2013-02-25 05:41:37 PM  

MrSteve007: They're lowing the prices of touchscreen PC's by $100, because people like using Win 8 on a touchscreen. And this is somehow news?


Most retailers can charge  more for things people prefer to use. Why do you think they can't charge more for these machines?
 
2013-02-25 05:48:13 PM  

President Merkin Muffley: Everything has been crap since OS/2.


/windows 8 is a good OS. Deal with it.


Unix is also a great OS.  Does not change the fact that interfacing with both Unix and Windows 8 leaves much to be desired.  Windows 95 had a much more intuitive interface than 8.
 
2013-02-25 05:51:47 PM  

xaveth: Wait... why did we need Windows 8 again? What was wrong with Windows 7?


THIS! SO MUCH THIS!

I still use XP and I see no reason to waste more of my $$ for something I don't need.
 
2013-02-25 05:52:07 PM  
Gawd i miss Windows!


NOT
 
2013-02-25 05:54:17 PM  

theurge14: MrSteve007: theurge14: Yesterday on the Games tab on my XBOX dashboard I had the little bitty Skyrim tile dwarfed by a giant Oscars update with a shiny plasticy looking tile of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie on the red carpet. I then realized that I play games on a tabloid. :(

I saw that on the main tab, but not the games tab. . . 

That said, the emphasis on live content is due to the fact that more people use their Xbox to view video entertainment content than play video games.

For people like me, who have no satellite, antenna, or cable TV, being able to watch live events on Xbox is pretty nice.

My bad, it was the main tab.  I only play games on it.  My TV already has Netflix and Hulu.  But I understand.  I wish there was a way to rearrange all that stuff.


Yeah, or at least target it better if it's going to be that invasive.  I really could give a flying crap about who won what at which multi-billion-dollar annual low-IQ popularity contest when I want to get to cutting zombies in half with a chainsaw.

Mind you, the tiles on the Xbox are at least the kind of setup that lends itself towards that kind of thing.  There's only going to be so many options in there, that number isn't going to change except by 1-3, and it all fits on each tabbed screen quite nicely.  I did like the old interface better but I don't actively hate Metro on the Xbox now.
 
2013-02-25 05:54:32 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: cman: Microsoft made a huge risk with Windows 8.

Windows 8, underneath the eye candy, is the best Windows ever released. But, with Metro, Jesus I know the desktop metaphor is old as fark, but the mobile metaphor is even worse for keyboard + mice systems.

I like Win8. But I installed a start menu replacement, so I never see the metro crap and I have my start button back again.

What kills me are Win8 white nights who constantly tell people that they can do the same things they did before, but a different way. Most people, myself included, already know how to do things fast and don't
need or want a different way.



its Monopoly$oft's way or the highway.

or

you could just install Linux Mint 14 with the Mate desktop and be done with redmond.
 
2013-02-25 05:55:53 PM  

sinanju: Seriously?  Nobody has posted this yet?

[i.imgur.com image 497x373]



Schweet!
 
2013-02-25 05:58:25 PM  

Gunny Walker: mac


what they meant was that you have to be mentally 'touched' to want to use windows, especially 8.

i was a big fan of XP until i tried Linux.  have never wanted to go back once i realized what i had been missing.  it was like getting my computer back and getting out of my way (once i learned the basics, which is still point and click)
 
2013-02-25 05:59:20 PM  

fluffy2097: mongbiohazard: I think I will probably be downgrading back to 7 soon, unless they issue a patch soon. The extra moment or two when I open a window may not seem like much... but on my gaming machine I notice it, and being that it wasn't there under 7 - on the same damn hardware - it annoys me.

Have you checked your power management settings? Sandy bridge processors clock down to like 1.6ghz when idle to save power, and if your power management is enabled, lots of things will never trigger the processor to step up to it's full speed.

Make sure all that shiat is turned off.


Thanks for the tip. I'll check that when I get home tonight to be safe, but I'm pretty certain that isn't it. All my power management stuff should already pretty much be set to "it's a desktop - use all the electrons with greed". It's one of the first things I tweak.

ZeroCorpse: So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.



I like Mac hardware, but I despise the Mac OS with the burning passion of a thousand suns - so I'm no Mac fanboy. I've been using Windows 8 for a few weeks now.... and it's noticeably slower than Windows 7 was on the exact same hardware. There's a short but noticeable delay now when I so much as open a folder, and that delay was not there under 7. My games don't run any better, if anything I've noticed a few more stutters here and there than before, and Skyrim just won't run for more than a few seconds any more, but generally speaking with my hardware I don't lack for power to run games anyway, so there isn't a huge difference.

But the basic GUI functions being noticeably slower on the same hardware is irking me quite a bit. I run an i5 with 16 gigs of RAM and a 560Ti OC video card... there's no way the GUI should be anything but instantly responsive with no programs running. It was under 7.... it's not under 8. Sorry, but that's the honest truth of the experience I'm having. This is probably going to make me downgrade back to 7.

And Metro is horribad on a desktop PC. I'm guessing I'd probably like it just fine on a tablet, but that's not what I'm using it on. It didn't take me long of using the Metro interface before I hid it and never wanted to see it on my machine again.

So if history teaches us anything I'm betting Windows 9 is going to be fantastic.
 
2013-02-25 06:04:08 PM  
Windows 8 is a fascist OS with a metrosexual UI.
 
2013-02-25 06:09:59 PM  

ColdFusion: But I'm the dumbass nobody and he's Jakob Nielson, which means I'm wrong according to some.


You're reading a lot into my comment that I didn't intend to express. I am not trying to pick a fight or make judgments about you, but I may have written in a way you found offensive and for that I apologize.

Nielsen's report necessarily deals with the version of Windows 8 available at the time the studies were conducted. What he wrote was very probably true about the version he tested. In any event, his statement about multiple windows, while it may now be inaccurate, was mitigated by the statement "none of our test users were able to make this work"  which is more to the point.

Nielsen tests usability, which is different from functionality. The software may be capable of amazing performance (and from everything I've heard Windows 8 is fast and stable) but the user interface leaves a lot to be desired. There is a steep learning curve, involving a lot of memorization, searching the internet for clues, and from the end user's perspective there is little benefit derived from all that effort. How much time does an end user want to invest in 'learning to use' an operating system before the alternative of not adopting the system becomes the more attractive choice? From what I've read there are a lot of people who are 'downgrading' to Windows 7 rather than spending the time to learn Windows 8. As a business decision, IT departments are avoiding implementing Win 8 because the cost lost productivity is seen as prohibitive.
 
2013-02-25 06:21:25 PM  

MrSteve007: What's funny is that the adoption rate of Win 8 appears to be a lot faster than Windows 7, yet people claim it isn't selling well.

Look at any major metric you want, it's proving to be true.

Check the validity of your data.


Look more carefully at the release information.  The official release date for win 7 was July 22 09,  by which point it was almost 1.9 percent.  Whe Windows 8 release date was oct 30, which isn't even on the chart.

If you want to compare apples to apples, you will want to compare the September implementation numbers with the December numbers for win 8  which puts the implementation rate of Windows 7 at 3.2% to Windows 8 at 2.5%.  Also bear in mind that most of those numbers for Windows 8 are forced installs since they come with the new systems, preinstalled.

Win 7
September3.2%August2.5%July1.9%

Win 8
December2.5%NovemberOctober
 
2013-02-25 06:27:22 PM  

red5ish: One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
[img198.imageshack.us image 606x341]
And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.


orangeinks.comView Full Size
 
2013-02-25 06:32:47 PM  
I've decided to skip Win8 because I don't have a touchscreen (my Cintiq doesn't count as it isn't my primary monitor). Win7 64bit is working perfectly well for me and I see no need to add the annoyance of the metro interface to my system. Yeah, I've heard that Win8 is slightly better optimized than Win7, but that isn't enough to justify upgrading any of my machines.
 
2013-02-25 06:42:34 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Slaxl: nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.

ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.

Yeah, HORRIBLE problem, that. God forbid anything should ever change. Or could afford $5 for a utility that brings back that precious start button.


My point was that Windows 8 isn't crap, because the only issue with it is relatively minor. However a $5 utility to restore the start menu is a bad solution.
 
2013-02-25 06:42:53 PM  

mcsmiley: Also bear in mind that most of those numbers for Windows 8 are forced installs since they come with the new systems, preinstalled.


If that's the case, then why wouldn't that also hold true for Win 7?

mcsmiley: Look more carefully at the release information. The official release date for win 7 was July 22 09, by which point it was almost 1.9 percent. Whe Windows 8 release date was oct 30, which isn't even on the chart.

If you want to compare apples to apples, you will want to compare the September implementation numbers with the December numbers for win 8 which puts the implementation rate of Windows 7 at 3.2% to Windows 8 at 2.5%. Also bear in mind that most of those numbers for Windows 8 are forced installs since they come with the new systems, preinstalled.

Win 7
September3.2%August2.5%July1.9%

Win 8
December2.5%NovemberOctober


Why not take it out one more month? Because it very directly shows a faster adoption rate . . . Here, I'll make is really simple to see

Windows 7 - released July 22, 2009
1st month: 1.9% (July, although they're likely including beta installs with this number . . .)
2nd month: 2.5% (Aug)
3rd month 3.2% (Sept)
4th month 4.4% (Oct)

Windows 8 Released Oct 26, 2012
1st month ??? (Oct)
2nd month ??? (Nov)
3rd month 2.5% (Dec)
4th month 4.8% (Jan)

My initial point still stands. Almost all of the metrics shows that Windows 8 adoption (in terms of percentage of overall users) is faster than the much beloved Windows 7.
 
2013-02-25 06:49:23 PM  
lewismarktwo All MS had to do was have an option for the old interface, but no they had to push their new bullshiat on people who don't want it.

Yeah, how hard would it have been to leave the old school menu system in while adding the ribbon.

// ohh wait, that's MS Office :P
 
2013-02-25 06:51:21 PM  

lohphat: red5ish: One of the things that hasn't been mentioned enough is how execrably ugly this is:
[img198.imageshack.us image 606x341]
And it doesn't look better on a 20" high resolution screen. Aesthetics are a part of the user experience and Microsoft has released the ugliest looking product I've seen in a long, long time.

[www.orangeinks.com image 620x419]


I may be in the minority, but I like my computer to look good. I don't want it to look like the cash register at McDonalds. At the very least I want the option to modify its appearance to something that doesn't look like a pastel color chart from the paint store.
img266.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2013-02-25 06:52:03 PM  

lordargent: lewismarktwo All MS had to do was have an option for the old interface, but no they had to push their new bullshiat on people who don't want it.

Yeah, how hard would it have been to leave the old school menu system in while adding the ribbon.

// ohh wait, that's MS Office :P


Yeah, I've been using Office 2007 for about 3 years now, and I still think the ribbon is a goddamn mess.
 
2013-02-25 06:56:02 PM  
Finally saw Win8 the other day. I can see where people wouldn't like it if you don't have a touchscreen. Looks like it's something new to get used to and you know how people hate that.
 
2013-02-25 06:58:05 PM  
Also, computer prices always drop about $100 this time of year.
 
2013-02-25 06:59:09 PM  
ever since XP you're basically better off only buying every other windows release
 
2013-02-25 07:07:02 PM  

yukichigai: Well yes, obviously.  It does make me wonder though how they intend to get people to use these new Metro Apps if they're not only awkward for desktop users, but they make the entire experience awkward when they're running at all.


Well, the way I use mine is I have a podcast or internet radio app running while I do my work on the desktop.  It runs completely in the background unless I want to sidebar it so I can pause or skip on the fly.  I've also found a scientific calculator app useful as a sidebar metro app while running in desktop.  I can use both the desktop app and the calculator side-by-side without losing much from either (on widescreens, it basically makes the desktop the standard 4:3 instead of 16:10 while it runs in the little slice to the side.

It's all little stuff, and you can use as much or as little as you like.

red5ish: You're reading a lot into my comment that I didn't intend to express. I am not trying to pick a fight or make judgments about you, but I may have written in a way you found offensive and for that I apologize.


It's alright, I was just being a bit prickly because I just happen to be a know-nothing blogger (outside of Criminology) and didn't like the comparison, lol.

I've found the learning curve-- with the admittedly small sample I have of people around me-- to not be that steep, once the user figures out how to get to the desktop.  My mother, for example, does not like any change to her Windows and is practically phobic in regards to computers.  She still wishes she could use Win98, let alone 7.  Once I showed her the "Desktop" tile, she never needs to deal with the Start Screen except in the same way she used the Start Menu (find a program, click icon, receive bacon).

There is a big difference, I've seen, in how well people adapt to OSes.  Hated the hell out of Linux when I just played around with it, same with Mac OS X.  At times, though, I force myself to take the plunge and use only what I'm wanting to learn.  I find that I learn it real fast.  People who are "trying it out" in the store, as part of an experiment or demo, or just as a lark... they'll find it a lot harder to learn than when it comes on their computer and it's just what they will use from now on.
 
2013-02-25 07:12:33 PM  

xaveth: Wait... why did we need Windows 8 again? What was wrong with Windows 7?


Meanwhile, in Other Universe:

What makes MS think people will just keep buying Windows 7 forever? That's their problem, too slow. Can't keep up with the modern pace of software development. People want to see something fresh and different on the shelves, not the same old crap!
 
2013-02-25 07:23:10 PM  

cretinbob: Finally saw Win8 the other day. I can see where people wouldn't like it if you don't have a touchscreen. Looks like it's something new to get used to and you know how people hate that.


A whole lot of this.  People whining about Windows 8 are probably the same people that whine every time Facebook changes the layout of their site.

WAAAH!  I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BETTER, I'M RESISTANT TO CHANGE!

/have Win8 on my hybrid tablet and HTPC
//would put it on my desktop too if I wasn't replacing the machine in a few months
 
2013-02-25 07:29:23 PM  

ColdFusion: red5ish: You're reading a lot into my comment that I didn't intend to express. I am not trying to pick a fight or make judgments about you, but I may have written in a way you found offensive and for that I apologize.

It's alright, I was just being a bit prickly because I just happen to be a know-nothing blogger (outside of Criminology) and didn't like the comparison, lol.


I too am a know-nothing blogger (my subject is Baseball). A decade ago I spent about three and a half years studying usability and Jakob Nielsen was (and still is) the big kahuna on the subject, so I rushed to his defense. "Don't you know who this Great Man is?" Pretty pathetic, in retrospect.
 
2013-02-25 07:44:28 PM  

CmndrFish: cretinbob: Finally saw Win8 the other day. I can see where people wouldn't like it if you don't have a touchscreen. Looks like it's something new to get used to and you know how people hate that.

A whole lot of this.  People whining about Windows 8 are probably the same people that whine every time Facebook changes the layout of their site.

WAAAH!  I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BETTER, I'M RESISTANT TO CHANGE!

/have Win8 on my hybrid tablet and HTPC
//would put it on my desktop too if I wasn't replacing the machine in a few months


or ya know... they just bought windows 7, which works great, and see no reason to upgrade?

i'd be cool with using windows 7 for another 5 years, if anything it's the 3rd party programs that need to optimize and catch up, nothing metro can do about that
 
2013-02-25 07:51:30 PM  

CmndrFish: cretinbob: Finally saw Win8 the other day. I can see where people wouldn't like it if you don't have a touchscreen. Looks like it's something new to get used to and you know how people hate that.

A whole lot of this.  People whining about Windows 8 are probably the same people that whine every time Facebook changes the layout of their site.

WAAAH!  I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BETTER, I'M RESISTANT TO CHANGE!

/have Win8 on my hybrid tablet and HTPC
//would put it on my desktop too if I wasn't replacing the machine in a few months


Yeah... it's not better.  Maybe it's better if you have a "hybrid tablet", but on a standard desktop, it's the drizzling shiats.
 
2013-02-25 07:57:45 PM  

MrSteve007: My initial point still stands. Almost all of the metrics shows that Windows 8 adoption (in terms of percentage of overall users) is faster than the much beloved Windows 7.


Is that units installed or units shipped?

Also, Vista has people shell-shocked and thy didn't want to leave XP. Once Win7 was shown stable, then it took off.
 
2013-02-25 07:59:24 PM  

fluffy2097: Confabulat: Also, it demands I activate it every couple of hours; which of course I've already done.

ITT: someone with pirate software complains it doesn't work right....


Oh fark you, I just bought a new computer in January with Win 8 installed. So hey, did I say, FARK YOU.
 
2013-02-25 08:00:55 PM  

fluffy2097: mongbiohazard: I think I will probably be downgrading back to 7 soon, unless they issue a patch soon. The extra moment or two when I open a window may not seem like much... but on my gaming machine I notice it, and being that it wasn't there under 7 - on the same damn hardware - it annoys me.

Have you checked your power management settings? Sandy bridge processors clock down to like 1.6ghz when idle to save power, and if your power management is enabled, lots of things will never trigger the processor to step up to it's full speed.

Make sure all that shiat is turned off.



Checked my power management settings and everything is set for max performance already... But the GUI is still slightly slower than it was under Win 7. No matter. I can just "downgrade" back to 7 and lose pretty much nothing I wanted anyway, aside from Direct X 11.1, and that I'm not going to be using any time soon anyway. Microsoft got paid cash moneys for their latest OS from me, and I get to have a legit Windows 7 which works pretty close to flawlessly for me. After Windows 8 has had a year or two to get patched I can switch back to it if I so desire. Everybody wins!
 
2013-02-25 08:04:46 PM  

HeartBurnKid: CmndrFish: cretinbob: Finally saw Win8 the other day. I can see where people wouldn't like it if you don't have a touchscreen. Looks like it's something new to get used to and you know how people hate that.

A whole lot of this.  People whining about Windows 8 are probably the same people that whine every time Facebook changes the layout of their site.

WAAAH!  I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BETTER, I'M RESISTANT TO CHANGE!

/have Win8 on my hybrid tablet and HTPC
//would put it on my desktop too if I wasn't replacing the machine in a few months

Yeah... it's not better.  Maybe it's better if you have a "hybrid tablet", but on a standard desktop, it's the drizzling shiats.



I'm actually tempted to buy a Windows tablet running Pro though... The GUI does seem like it would be a good one for that format. Asus makes one for just under $500 with the full Windows on it... I can run my favorite desktop programs on it and also browse my home LAN and play my media files directly from my server through windows explorer.

Metro still sucks on my desktop though.
 
2013-02-25 08:06:19 PM  
I've got no hate for Win 8. Hell if I were buying a new machine from scratch I might go with it. But nope, I'm a perfectly satisfied Win 7 users, with a five year old home built pc. If I'm going to go to the trouble of buying and installing a new OS, I want "Better. Faster. Easier." Not just "Different."
 
2013-02-25 08:11:11 PM  

HeartBurnKid: CmndrFish: cretinbob: Finally saw Win8 the other day. I can see where people wouldn't like it if you don't have a touchscreen. Looks like it's something new to get used to and you know how people hate that.

A whole lot of this.  People whining about Windows 8 are probably the same people that whine every time Facebook changes the layout of their site.

WAAAH!  I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BETTER, I'M RESISTANT TO CHANGE!

/have Win8 on my hybrid tablet and HTPC
//would put it on my desktop too if I wasn't replacing the machine in a few months

Yeah... it's not better.  Maybe it's better if you have a "hybrid tablet", but on a standard desktop, it's the drizzling shiats.


Yeah, "better" is pretty subjective.  It has some nice improvements, but whether or not they overcome the new shortcomings is debatable.
 
2013-02-25 08:20:10 PM  
I'm switching jobs this month and one of the first things I am going to do when I sign my new contract is take that bonus and run out and buy myself a surface pro.

Suck it dinosaurs.
 
2013-02-25 08:26:28 PM  
Are you guys still whining about an OS that's perfectly fine?

It's not changing. It's not bad. Get over it.
 
2013-02-25 08:33:55 PM  
I've been using Windows 8 (since it came on my computer) and haven't been having any issues with it.
 
2013-02-25 08:34:13 PM  

theurge14: Rwa2play: MrSteve007: soporific: So yes, Metro is the reason for the hate, and deservedly so. The simple option would be to have Win8 use the regular configuration for desktops and Metro for tablets. It auto-detects and configures accordingly. If you want to switch over, it shouldn't take more than two or three clicks, because giving consumers the option will make it more appealing. There, I've solved the Win8 dilema.

That's a good idea, if you want to keep users in their computing UI comfort zone.

Microsoft is betting on the Metro-style interface They're attempting to standardize the UI between desktops, laptops, tablets, phones and the TV (via Xbox).

They don't want you to stick with the old systems, they want to unify the UI for all devices - which in the long-run, makes sense.

No offense but...hasn't Apple already accomplished this with their OS on both their Mac and their IDevices?

Well, yes and no.  Yes, Apple has already made an effort to unify the UI between the Mac and iOS devices, and No they still kept them distinct.  For example, in Snow Leopard they introduced a side-swiping Applications window on the Dock that mimicked the home screen of the iPhone.  Instead of making it the default home screen on the Mac, they made it an icon on the Dock you can click into and use optionally.  Is this the right approach?  I don't know what their user studies show them but I imagine taking an extreme like forcing a new desktop paradigm without checking into that is probably not a good idea.


That's what I thought; although they're trying to blur the lines between the MacOS and the iOS, Apple won't force the issue.  They'll still keep them distinct yet still give you a taste of how the other OS works.

Maybe THAT's what Microsoft should have done with Win 8.
 
2013-02-25 08:36:33 PM  

imgod2u: I do find Metro to be a minor annoyance on my desktop. Not so much so that I would nerdrage about it but it is somewhat disjoint from the rest of the UI.

That being said, I can postulate as to why they're pushing Metro so hard: their market share in tablets and touchscreen devices is miniscule. In order to get developers to make touchscreen apps, they need it to be the main interface even for big Windows on desktop.

I honestly don't mind. Like I said, it's a minor annoyance for desktop but as a media PC, metro is a fantastic interface. Ditto for a touchscreen desktop.


A minor annoyance would be something that takes a couple of clicks to change.  Don't think changing the UI on Win 8 back to Luna is that simple.
 
2013-02-25 08:39:25 PM  

HeartBurnKid: CmndrFish: cretinbob: Finally saw Win8 the other day. I can see where people wouldn't like it if you don't have a touchscreen. Looks like it's something new to get used to and you know how people hate that.

A whole lot of this.  People whining about Windows 8 are probably the same people that whine every time Facebook changes the layout of their site.

WAAAH!  I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BETTER, I'M RESISTANT TO CHANGE!

/have Win8 on my hybrid tablet and HTPC
//would put it on my desktop too if I wasn't replacing the machine in a few months

Yeah... it's not better.  Maybe it's better if you have a "hybrid tablet", but on a standard desktop, it's the drizzling shiats.


This.
 
2013-02-25 08:41:44 PM  

Marine1: Are you guys still whining about an OS that's perfectly fine?

It's not changing. It's not bad. Get over it.


Really?

digitaltrends.comView Full Size


If you call this "perfectly fine", either I'll keep my Windows 7 PC or...switch to a Mac.
 
2013-02-25 08:42:48 PM  
Anyone want to explain why the new 'Metro' UI is better?

I don't see anything there that makes me want to change. It has to be 'better' than the other UI before I'll bother to invest my time in it. I know the Metro part of the UI  has several features I detest like
1) Basically only one window open at a time
2) Things that pop up when you mouse over them or move the mouse to a particular location.

Note: Talking about the UI not the OS. Speed / reliability etc are independent of the UI.
 
2013-02-25 09:00:39 PM  

Rwa2play: Marine1: Are you guys still whining about an OS that's perfectly fine?

It's not changing. It's not bad. Get over it.

Really?

[www.digitaltrends.com image 850x477]

If you call this "perfectly fine", either I'll keep my Windows 7 PC or...switch to a Mac.


Oh look! It's Pointcast showing you stuff on your screen...when you're not there.
 
2013-02-25 09:08:06 PM  

HeartBurnKid: CmndrFish: cretinbob: Finally saw Win8 the other day. I can see where people wouldn't like it if you don't have a touchscreen. Looks like it's something new to get used to and you know how people hate that.

A whole lot of this.  People whining about Windows 8 are probably the same people that whine every time Facebook changes the layout of their site.

WAAAH!  I DON'T CARE IF IT'S BETTER, I'M RESISTANT TO CHANGE!

/have Win8 on my hybrid tablet and HTPC
//would put it on my desktop too if I wasn't replacing the machine in a few months

Yeah... it's not better.  Maybe it's better if you have a "hybrid tablet", but on a standard desktop, it's the drizzling shiats.


I call it a "hybrid tablet" because when I call it a tablet everybody thinks it's an iPad-like toy when in fact it's a real computer.

And I don't mind it on the desktop at all.  I don't understand people's love of the start menu.  To me it was always cumbersome and not that useful anyway.  The best thing they ever did was bring the search feature in so I could ignore the bloody thing entirely.  At least I can gain information from the Metro startscreen, whereas I'm just hunting through icons in a start menu.

Perhaps I have an unfair advantage because I already know how to "use" Metro from owning a Windows Phone, but you can gain a lot from live tiles.
 
2013-02-25 09:09:35 PM  

MrSteve007: What a derpy headline, considering this is a meat of the article: "Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display"

They're lowing the prices of touchscreen PC's by $100, because people like using Win 8 on a touchscreen. And this is somehow news?


Also it looks like people DNRTFA either. But either way Windows 8 is deemed a failure in the Fark circuit so any Win8 threads will be like this.

I plan to get Win8 when I do finally upgrade my PC and get a touch screen monitor, other then that I'll stick to Win7 Ultimate.
 
2013-02-25 09:24:19 PM  

Slaxl: nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.

ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.


And that's exactly what Win 8 is, and with improved boot/sleep/shutdown times.

Buncha whiners...
 
2013-02-25 09:33:08 PM  

ZeroCorpse: So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.

People keep acting like Metro is the main GUI.  It isn't.It's there for tablet users, but when you're on a desktop there's no reason you need to use it at all, if you don't want to. Even if you do use it like it's meant to be used on a desktop (as a Start menu, and that's it; Not as the replacement for the desktop) you might find that it's way more customizable and flexible than the previous start menu.

No, I think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon. They've not used Win 8, but they're CERTAIN it sucks because they saw some pictures of the Metro interface and clicked it a couple times at Best Buy.


My AARP member but still working (owns his own business) uncle needed a new computer a month ago.  He picked one with 7 at Microcenter because 7 worked perfectly fine for him and he didn't want to be a guinea pig.

It's XP/Vista all the f--k over again.  And those are the people who make up the bulk of the market: they have no reason to upgrade their desktops or laptops with 7 currently installed, so... they're not gonna.  Eventually you'll have to pick 8 for a new purchase, but by that time everyone will just skip over 8 since Microsoft will have the *next* OS just around the corner.

XP/Vista/7 all over again.  My uncle hated the f--k out of Vista (came with a laptop) and swore never again.  He'll hopscotch 8.  My parents will too.  I get the advantages 8 has, but I'm young and don't feel like dropping money on a new OS I don't really need either.  Likewise with the SO who just uses Linux these days since he finally figured out how to run Netflix on it.

So you've got some middle ground between myself/SO (20s) and uncle/mom/dad (50s-60s), I suppose.   But that's a huge % of potential customers who are gonna avoid 8 as long as they can, if for slightly different reasons.  Hell, I skipped Vista myself.  Other than helping pissed off relatives and older people at the office who couldn't figure it out, and y'know, that was enough.  But fancy new laptop = can't utilize features with XP = I get 7.  Touch screen laptops aren't going to really catch up until Windows 9 I wager.

/not taking tablets into account here
 
2013-02-25 09:39:39 PM  

Rwa2play: Marine1: Are you guys still whining about an OS that's perfectly fine?

It's not changing. It's not bad. Get over it.

Really?


digitaltrends.comView Full Size
 

If you call this "perfectly fine", either I'll keep my Windows 7 PC or...switch to a Mac.

I like how the panel for the Windows Blog isn't even smart enough to convert the "&" code from the RSS feed.

Also, my Mom would be calling me to complain about how the screen is chopped off on the edge.

Metro was designed for people who surf the web, not for people that need to be productive. It is meant to convey as much information to the user onscreen as possible.... it's the evolution of screen widgets, which have had a spotty history and place in our UIs for the last 14 or 15 years or so.

The problem is that widgets are great if they are up on an airport wall, or in the corner of a cafe.... but ultimately, they are only worth a few seconds of our notice, not our full attention 100% of the time. We've spent the last two decades getting used to "multitasking" - windowed environments where very different applications can have data cut and pasted between them; Metro is the antithesis of this.

Sure, as a consolation prize, we have a desktop... shoved to second-class citizen status in the Operating System's UI, and Neutered (Start menu removed) for no obvious reason, other than to tell users, "stay the fark out of that old desktop!".

Yes, there are third party solutions to "fix" the problem... but why is this the party line now? Microsoft made a big deal out of running WinXP via a Virtual PC box.... we had third party solutions for that too...  Microsoft insists on pushing Windows Defender... but there are third party solutions for that, too. In the end, they had no reason to brutally chop the desktop away, other than to encourage users to stay in the ugly Metro screen, which only AMPLIFIES how bad Metro is - that Microsoft had to resort to cheap tactics, instead of relying on what SUPPOSEDLY is a superior UI to stand on its own against a fully functional desktop UI.

I'll also say again... gestures are the devil on desktop PCs. Nobody wants to spend 8 hours holding up their arms, swiping and swooshing their screens. Nobody wants to keep their fingers super clean to prevent the screen from looking like it was slobbered on by Ke$ha's lady parts after an hours worth of touchscreen usage. Nobody likes to have to MEMORIZE obscure keyboard commands or "hovering locations" to get "charm bars" to magically appear.

All that said, it's kind of sad that Microsoft made some great improvements UNDER the hood.... then proceeded to put a 1978 AMC Pacer body on top of it.  ...And just like the 1978 Pacer, Metro has its fans (though it's usually the same Farker suspects White Knighting Win8) - surely none of them here have anything to do with Microsoft or the Win8 development team.

Balmer needs to own up to the mistake in pushing this experiment on the public at large, and release a Service Pack that brings back the Desktop to its proper glory.
 
2013-02-25 09:41:29 PM  
Oh and the Win8 "upgrade" DVD said I'd have to do a fresh install; it refused to upgrade the recently installed Win7ultimate.

Fark that noise.
 
2013-02-25 09:42:52 PM  

LesserEvil: I like how the panel for the Windows Blog isn't even smart enough to convert the "&" "& amp ;" code from the RSS feed


Ugh. Even Fark is smart enough to convert the Ampersand HTML code.
 
2013-02-25 09:52:21 PM  

LesserEvil: Rwa2play: Marine1: Are you guys still whining about an OS that's perfectly fine?

It's not changing. It's not bad. Get over it.

Really?

[www.digitaltrends.com image 850x477] 

If you call this "perfectly fine", either I'll keep my Windows 7 PC or...switch to a Mac.

I like how the panel for the Windows Blog isn't even smart enough to convert the "&" code from the RSS feed.

Also, my Mom would be calling me to complain about how the screen is chopped off on the edge.

Metro was designed for people who surf the web, not for people that need to be productive. It is meant to convey as much information to the user onscreen as possible.... it's the evolution of screen widgets, which have had a spotty history and place in our UIs for the last 14 or 15 years or so.

The problem is that widgets are great if they are up on an airport wall, or in the corner of a cafe.... but ultimately, they are only worth a few seconds of our notice, not our full attention 100% of the time. We've spent the last two decades getting used to "multitasking" - windowed environments where very different applications can have data cut and pasted between them; Metro is the antithesis of this.

Sure, as a consolation prize, we have a desktop... shoved to second-class citizen status in the Operating System's UI, and Neutered (Start menu removed) for no obvious reason, other than to tell users, "stay the fark out of that old desktop!".

Yes, there are third party solutions to "fix" the problem... but why is this the party line now? Microsoft made a big deal out of running WinXP via a Virtual PC box.... we had third party solutions for that too...  Microsoft insists on pushing Windows Defender... but there are third party solutions for that, too. In the end, they had no reason to brutally chop the desktop away, other than to encourage users to stay in the ugly Metro screen, which only AMPLIFIES how bad Metro is - that Microsoft had to resort to cheap tactics, instead of relying on what SUPPOSEDLY is a ...


In Windows 7, did you spend a long time staring at the start menu?  Why would you do the same thing with the full-screen version of a start menu?

If you need a program, hit windows button, find the icon, push butan, receive bacon.  It's not that hard.

The start screen is not a magnet.
i0.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2013-02-25 10:04:14 PM  
10-24-01 10:42:36 AM    Wulph
What all's better about XP than Win2K Professional?

10-24-01 11:26:19 AM    Quamper
wulph: nothing.. xp is essentially win2k with a playschool interface... they've said xp uses the same codebase as win2k and the only thing new(when you strip away the fluff) is the Luna Interface(which I personally don;t like)


(Fark thread around the original XP release, via archive.org...  We live in some kind of crazy fractal.)
 
2013-02-25 10:04:14 PM  

ColdFusion: In Windows 7, did you spend a long time staring at the start menu? Why would you do the same thing with the full-screen version of a start menu?


Ooh, ooh! Me! I got this one!

Because it's sitting there taking up your entire desktop all the time.

It's kinda like if I was to take my desktop icons settings and set the slider to GINORMOUS so I can only see like 12 of them.

/and I specially love the huge clock icon which can't even be bothered to show the time
 
2013-02-25 10:04:50 PM  
My new rig is Win8. The only problems I had was setting it up. Windows (for my own protection, apparently) didn't want to let me web browse until I acknowledged their registration email. Which I couldn't open because I couldn't get Outlook to work. Come to find out the new Outlook doesn't support POP3. WTF? Oh well, Thunderbird it is then.

Oh, and the McAfee suite it came with wouldn't work and refused to let me enable the Windows firewall so I had to uninstall it.
 
2013-02-25 10:17:54 PM  
I got 8 on the last day of January.  Not going back.  This thing boots fast like Ubuntu.  And the Metro IU is nothing more than windows wearing sock puppets, for fark's sake.  Metro is only confusing for people who could never get past the tutorial mode on a goddamned speak-and-spell.  And even if you ARE one of those people, getting back to a normal desktop is one key tap away.

/keepin' it
 
2013-02-25 10:20:00 PM  
Haet Windows 8?
Install Classicshell
Shut up and use your damned computer.
 
2013-02-25 10:41:40 PM  
Upgraded an old XP Home laptop to Windows 8 for $39. Works perfectly, feels like a new machine. I'm more of a Mac guy, but even at that, no complaints. Just sayin'.


/Start menu disappears and y'all freak out.
 
2013-02-25 11:23:34 PM  

MrSteve007: What's funny is that the adoption rate of Win 8 appears to be a lot faster than Windows 7, yet people claim it isn't selling well.

Look at any major metric you want, it's proving to be true.


Win 8 is on many more devices than 7, and there are increasingly more systems being sold. People w/out a choice to buy a Win 7 machine, who need computers, are being counted as "adoptors."
 
2013-02-25 11:26:00 PM  

Zombalupagus: ColdFusion: In Windows 7, did you spend a long time staring at the start menu? Why would you do the same thing with the full-screen version of a start menu?

Ooh, ooh! Me! I got this one!

Because it's sitting there taking up your entire desktop all the time.

It's kinda like if I was to take my desktop icons settings and set the slider to GINORMOUS so I can only see like 12 of them.

/and I specially love the huge clock icon which can't even be bothered to show the time


All the time?  Really?  You didn't spot the button on the start screen marked "Desktop", that takes you away from the start screen and onto the desktop that is the same as Windows 7, except for the lack of a start menu icon?

I stand corrected:  You must not have stared at it hard enough.

Here's a hint:   http://i.imgur.com/0gwCaCT.png
 
2013-02-25 11:30:47 PM  

Slaxl: nekom: Yeah, it's going to be another "Me" style flop.  I've already made the decision to ban any talk of windows 8 at work, under penalty of torture.

ME sucked because it was shiat, right? I remember it crashing lots. Win 8 is crap because it doesn't have a start menu button on the task bar. As far as I can tell everything else is the same as Win7.

Solkar: I'm a Mac guy in my private life since the mid-80s, but have had to use Windows for work since the 3.1 days. My in-laws bought me a Dell laptop with Win 7 a couple of years ago. Microsoft ran a deal back in January to get Win 8 for $40, so I upgraded, installed Pokki to replace the Start menu and avoid Metro ... and I think it's the best experience I've ever had with Windows. And it runs much faster than it ever did with Win 7 - it's like a brand-new machine.

Other than the dislike for Metro, which is understandable, I don't get all the hate.


It's mainly from people who haven't actually used it.  It's freakishly fast.  My laptop literally boots up from hibernate mode in less than four seconds.  If I "sleep" it, it takes less than a second usually to come up.
 
2013-02-25 11:39:36 PM  

meanmutton: It's mainly from people who haven't actually used it.


From what I've seen.  Hate to reference Idiocracy a second time in this thread, but most Windows 8 hate boils down to the courtroom scene there.

"Prosecutor, why you think Windows 8 sucks?"
"Number one, your honor.. just look at it!"
 
2013-02-25 11:42:33 PM  
I have begun installing start8 on every client of mine who has a Win8 PC... I just add it too their bill and tell them to thank me...  its like $5
 
2013-02-25 11:47:33 PM  

AdamK: ever since XP you're basically better off only buying every other windows release


95
98se
XP
7
9?

The trend is longer than you think. Skipping 98, ME, and Vista were good choices.
 
2013-02-25 11:51:03 PM  

MightyPez: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

This covers the complaints quite nicely


"One of the worst aspects of Windows 8 for power users is that the product's very name has become a misnomer. "Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen. Win8 does have an option to temporarily show a second area in a small part of the screen, but none of our test users were able to make this work. Also, the main UI restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed "Microsoft Window." "

OK, that's funny.
 
2013-02-26 12:00:55 AM  
Seems that the new UI was created by the creative marketing team, and not the user experience team?
 
2013-02-26 12:07:18 AM  
FTA: <i>Best Buy lowered its prices after a survey revealed that shoppers who bought touchscreen Windows 8 devices were "significantly happier" than those who bought PCs with a bog-standard display, http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/02/22/best-buy-offering-100-promotion -on-touchscreen-pcs/" target="_blank">according to the The Wall Street Journal.</i>

Gotta love the trolls here on FARK.
 
2013-02-26 12:40:41 AM  

ColdFusion: Eh, another Win8 hate thread.

New computer came with Win 8, planned to downgrade it but gave it a shot.  Thirty minutes and a couple questions on google and I was good to go.  Still use the start screen, customized it for my needs and it works faster for me than the start menu ever did.  Nice to have a dedicated TuneInRadio app for streaming music while I work.  All my stuff is exactly where I want it on the start screen; nothing I don't want is visible.  I just go direct for what I want.  I wouldn't want the old start menu back now.

I can understand why the business people hate it.  But they always seem to hate every change.  fark, I remember the whining about how Windows XP was going to be the cancer that killed computing because of the Authentication system, and how it was the worst thing to happen to the Enterprise-sector sales since the invention of taxes.

/Still have no idea why people have problems with the Metro interface using a mouse.
//It's still farking icons, you just click once instead of twice.
///Not complicated.


Absolutely this.

I'm at the point where I never realized that I would feel so sorry for people that have problems with this stuff.

Everything about Windows 8 is better than Windows 7 and it freaks me out reading comments that suggest otherwise. Those people obviously do not own it. At least that is what I keep telling myself because, WHAT OTHER REASON COULD THERE BE?

It's the fastest and most smoothly running operating system I have ever used. It is akin to culture shock when I see people talk negatively about it. It's scary that something can come out and be a total improvement and still fail because of people who have- never used it, played around with it at a Best Buy for 30 seconds, or, (and this one I do not understand), - bought it, installed it, decided they didn't like it and then got rid of it, then downgraded to Windows 7.

How the fark does that work?
profile.ak.fbcdn.netView Full Size


I don't have a touch screen on my laptop. I scroll through the metro UI easily with my mouse. It's beautiful. It has access to every single program you have ever installed all on one giant scrollable screen. You just start typing what you want. To suggest that that is more difficult makes zero sense and I will never let that go unchallenged when anyone says otherwise.

When you right-click in the bottom left corner you get this:
i.imgur.comView Full Size


ONE click access to shiat that would take up to as much as 4 to 5 clicks to get to.

Again, HOW is this more difficult to use? Especially when it's faster and utilizes your actual existing processing power in areas where Windows 7 does NOT?

I'm not going to get into the apps available (that Windows 7 will NEVER have) because it's a humungous  landscape and a journey that I can only suggest you discover for yourselves.

I'm sorry you guys don't like it and are convinced that it is not a desktop computing operating system. I don't understand why most people do not questions these rumors that are completely and utterly littered with bullshiat.

You'd figure it would be obvious by now since everyone that is complaining about Windows 8 is cloning the same arguments from each other. You're not fooling anybody into making people believe that you are actually using this operating system when you say that you don't like it because of the start menu. Someone who is actually using windows 8 would find that absurd unless they are going to specifically point out that I said that and repeat it in the contrary.
 
2013-02-26 12:42:11 AM  

sendtodave: MightyPez: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it?  I mean, specifically.  All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

This covers the complaints quite nicely

"One of the worst aspects of Windows 8 for power users is that the product's very name has become a misnomer. "Windows"no longer supports multiple windowson the screen. Win8 does have an option to temporarily show a second area in a small part of the screen, but none of our test users were able to make this work. Also, the main UI restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed "Microsoft Window." "

OK, that's funny.


No it doesn't.
 
2013-02-26 12:43:37 AM  

yukichigai: ColdFusion: What's so bad about it? I mean, specifically. All I hear is "It is bad" or "It's for tablets/touchscreens" (without specifying why single-clicking an icon is more laborious than double-clicking an icon).

Because it's not "single-click", it's "click drag this thing down to reveal the text prompt" or "move your mouse over to this one completely unmarked portion of the screen and leave it there for 1-3 seconds to get the button you actually want."


Wrong.
 
2013-02-26 12:47:23 AM  

Karac: xria: Yeah, install Shell Classic or whatever, and applications to take over the various inbuilt Modern UI (like a pdf viewer, etc.), and you forget you have even changed - been using it for a few months for work and haven't had any issues once I took the plunge and installed a third party mod to de-Metro it.

Windows 8 isn't crap because you used a third-party program to decrapify it.

Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that the OS isn't the important part of computers - it's the programs the OS runs.  It's the difference between a plate and the food you eat off of it.  Windows 8 is the equivalent of taking peoples forks away and telling them they'll have so much of a better experience using chopsticks.

Your solution is to go buy plastic utensils at the grocery store.


I have no idea how you guys come up with this shiat. I'm using this OS and you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
2013-02-26 12:53:24 AM  

ZeroCorpse: So many people are just completely uninformed about Windows 8. It's staggering. You'd think the thread were full of Mac fans trying to sabotage Win 8, judging from the sheer volume of ill-informed FUD.

When you're in the Desktop interface, it's EXACTLY like Windows 7, but faster and without a Start button. Games run better. Apps load faster. You can multitask like a motherf♥cker. All the Windows 7 drivers work with Windows 8. Windows hotkeys all still work.

People keep acting like Metro is the main GUI.  It isn't.It's there for tablet users, but when you're on a desktop there's no reason you need to use it at all, if you don't want to. Even if you do use it like it's meant to be used on a desktop (as a Start menu, and that's it; Not as the replacement for the desktop) you might find that it's way more customizable and flexible than the previous start menu.

No, I think a lot of people are just jumping on the bandwagon. They've not used Win 8, but they're CERTAIN it sucks because they saw some pictures of the Metro interface and clicked it a couple times at Best Buy.


This is exactly what is happening and it is frightening.