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		The hidden history of Disney's infamous Song of the South ( slate.com)		146
		More: Interesting, Song of the South, Disney, souths, Fantasia, Clark Gable, movie screens, Walt Whitman, roadrunner

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Dahnkster

2013-01-06 02:24:14 AM

Who's the black private dick
That's a sex machine to all the chicks?

You're damn right

lohphat

2013-01-06 02:43:19 AM

Robert1966: I saw it, or large parts of it, when I was a kid, in the 70s. It was weird and dated then, but I don't remember it being nearly as offensive as, say, "Gone with the Wind," or the crows in "Dumbo."

I love The Wiz and the crow scene makes me uncomfortable but that's social conditioning.

How do you explain a movie starring and produced by Americans of African descent having these scenes?

jimmythrust

2013-01-06 02:44:27 AM

lohphat: rynthetyn: they don't want the US audience to see it and realize that they're all feeling nostalgia for a minstrel show.

Interesting how you can presume how people will and should think. Good thing we have people like you to protect our sensibilities.

Have you seen any movies more than 30 years old made in America? We ball when it comes to horrifically racist stereotypes. If that's your thing, Breakfast at Tiffany's needs immediate viewing.

NDP2

2013-01-06 02:46:53 AM

karl2025: So... This may be a stupid question and a little unrelated, but it's close enough... Why is "Tar Baby" considered a slur?

It was a racist derogatory term for African-American children. Also, because of the story that's depicted in Song of the South, it's a term used to describe a situation so entangling that one's efforts to extricate himself from it only cause him to get further trapped (see, e.g., people who use the term "tar baby" according to the second definition and then try to explain that they were not using according to the first definition).

lohphat

2013-01-06 02:50:41 AM

jimmythrust: lohphat: rynthetyn: they don't want the US audience to see it and realize that they're all feeling nostalgia for a minstrel show.

Interesting how you can presume how people will and should think. Good thing we have people like you to protect our sensibilities.

Have you seen any movies more than 30 years old made in America? We ball when it comes to horrifically racist stereotypes. If that's your thing, Breakfast at Tiffany's needs immediate viewing.

And these aren't neo-minstrel horrific racist stereotypes?

Elmo Jones

2013-01-06 03:08:38 AM

Are the Jews gone, yet?

jimmythrust

2013-01-06 03:16:34 AM

lohphat: jimmythrust: lohphat: rynthetyn: they don't want the US audience to see it and realize that they're all feeling nostalgia for a minstrel show.

Interesting how you can presume how people will and should think. Good thing we have people like you to protect our sensibilities.

Have you seen any movies more than 30 years old made in America? We ball when it comes to horrifically racist stereotypes. If that's your thing, Breakfast at Tiffany's needs immediate viewing.

[files.g4tv.com image 474x427]

[cockroachalley.com image 400x330]

And these aren't neo-minstrel horrific racist stereotypes?

I won't deny that there have been plenty of tv shows and rap songs that have played into horrific stereotypes, but the notion that slaves had it pretty good and that white folk were only looking after the best interests of blacks is, was, and will always be racist, stupid, and condescending. To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way in film, music, comedy, what-have-you is somehow defensible is entirely horseshiat. It was horseshiat then, and it's even worse horseshiat now.

rynthetyn

2013-01-06 03:37:11 AM

jimmythrust: lohphat: jimmythrust: lohphat: rynthetyn: they don't want the US audience to see it and realize that they're all feeling nostalgia for a minstrel show.

Interesting how you can presume how people will and should think. Good thing we have people like you to protect our sensibilities.

Have you seen any movies more than 30 years old made in America? We ball when it comes to horrifically racist stereotypes. If that's your thing, Breakfast at Tiffany's needs immediate viewing.

[files.g4tv.com image 474x427]

[cockroachalley.com image 400x330]

And these aren't neo-minstrel horrific racist stereotypes?

I won't deny that there have been plenty of tv shows and rap songs that have played into horrific stereotypes, but the notion that slaves had it pretty good and that white folk were only looking after the best interests of blacks is, was, and will always be racist, stupid, and condescending. To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way in film, music, comedy, what-have-you is somehow defensible is entirely horseshiat. It was horseshiat then, and it's even worse horseshiat now.

Also, Song of the South is part of a longer tradition of American movies--beginning with the grandaddy of all racist flicks, Birth of a Nation--that portrays "good" black people as those who remain in subservience to white people. Heck, in Song of the South, there's a little black boy who's shown acting as a servant to the little white boy, bringing in a fresh pitcher of water for the wash basin while the little white boy is still sleeping. The image of a child labor by a young black boy working as a servant for a white child is seriously messed up, as is Uncle Remus' absolute subservience to the white plantation folk.

/doubt lophat is going to see this, I think I landed on his ignore list because he's not replying to me

CraicBaby

2013-01-06 03:41:27 AM

oldernell: I've always found it interesting that the hero of the movie is vilified today. I saw the movie in the theater when I was a kid, and as a kid in the south I didn't see the racial overtones. I still don't today. I think of Uncle Remus as a wise old gentleman trying to pass on that wisdom. I know it depicts the south as rich whites and poor blacks, which is historically true at the time the movie was made. Still, Uncle Remus remains as a lesson in what good character means, despite your economic or social status. The life lessons of that could be learned from Uncle Remus are far more valuable than those to be learned from the movie persona of today.

It had poor white people in it, too. Johnny makes friends with a girl who is from a poor white family (and her brothers are evil little sh*ts). I torrented it and watched it a few months ago. I think people are overreacting about how racist it is.

lohphat

2013-01-06 03:52:17 AM

jimmythrust: To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way in film, music, comedy, what-have-you is somehow defensible is entirely horseshiat. It was horseshiat then, and it's even worse horseshiat now.

Poor junk dealers

Social outcast nerd

Butler

Maid

Driver

Maids

jimmythrust

2013-01-06 03:56:33 AM

lohphat: jimmythrust: To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way in film, music, comedy, what-have-you is somehow defensible is entirely horseshiat. It was horseshiat then, and it's even worse horseshiat now.

[www.peoplequiz.com image 366x487] Poor junk dealers
[cdn.madamenoire.com image 371x500] Social outcast nerd
[www.tvshowsondvd.com image 500x695] Butler
[www.joy105.com image 512x344] Maid
[unknowncritics.com image 400x398] Driver
[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300] Maids

moron

rynthetyn

2013-01-06 04:04:55 AM

CraicBaby: oldernell: I've always found it interesting that the hero of the movie is vilified today. I saw the movie in the theater when I was a kid, and as a kid in the south I didn't see the racial overtones. I still don't today. I think of Uncle Remus as a wise old gentleman trying to pass on that wisdom. I know it depicts the south as rich whites and poor blacks, which is historically true at the time the movie was made. Still, Uncle Remus remains as a lesson in what good character means, despite your economic or social status. The life lessons of that could be learned from Uncle Remus are far more valuable than those to be learned from the movie persona of today.

It had poor white people in it, too. Johnny makes friends with a girl who is from a poor white family (and her brothers are evil little sh*ts). I torrented it and watched it a few months ago. I think people are overreacting about how racist it is.

The fact that the movie is classist as well as racist isn't a selling point.

lohphat

2013-01-06 04:10:41 AM

jimmythrust: jimmythrust: To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way...
moron

Your words, not mine.

/buh-bye

jimmythrust

2013-01-06 04:19:19 AM

lohphat: jimmythrust: jimmythrust: To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way...
moron

Your words, not mine.

/buh-bye

No, the representations of folks by folks with sometimes arbitrary and sometimes deliberate and sometimes unknowing intentions meant blacks in America have had a rougher go of it than you, jackass.

rynthetyn

2013-01-06 04:27:37 AM

jimmythrust: lohphat: jimmythrust: jimmythrust: To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way...
moron

Your words, not mine.

/buh-bye

No, the representations of folks by folks with sometimes arbitrary and sometimes deliberate and sometimes unknowing intentions meant blacks in America have had a rougher go of it than you, jackass.

He's not going to see that reply, he probably ignored listed you just like I'm pretty sure he ignore listed me.

jimmythrust

2013-01-06 04:35:45 AM

rynthetyn: jimmythrust: lohphat: jimmythrust: jimmythrust: To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way...
moron

Your words, not mine.

/buh-bye

No, the representations of folks by folks with sometimes arbitrary and sometimes deliberate and sometimes unknowing intentions meant blacks in America have had a rougher go of it than you, jackass.

He's not going to see that reply, he probably ignored listed you just like I'm pretty sure he ignore listed me.

Well, then fark him and his racism!

rynthetyn

2013-01-06 04:47:13 AM

jimmythrust: rynthetyn: jimmythrust: lohphat: jimmythrust: jimmythrust: To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way...
moron

Your words, not mine.

/buh-bye

No, the representations of folks by folks with sometimes arbitrary and sometimes deliberate and sometimes unknowing intentions meant blacks in America have had a rougher go of it than you, jackass.

He's not going to see that reply, he probably ignored listed you just like I'm pretty sure he ignore listed me.

Well, then fark him and his racism!

He's now farkied in Grey 1 for racist.

jimmythrust

2013-01-06 05:06:31 AM

rynthetyn: jimmythrust: rynthetyn: jimmythrust: lohphat: jimmythrust: jimmythrust: To suggest that depictions of black people as inferior in any way...
moron

Your words, not mine.

/buh-bye

No, the representations of folks by folks with sometimes arbitrary and sometimes deliberate and sometimes unknowing intentions meant blacks in America have had a rougher go of it than you, jackass.

He's not going to see that reply, he probably ignored listed you just like I'm pretty sure he ignore listed me.

Well, then fark him and his racism!

He's now farkied in Grey 1 for racist.

A-farking-men. Confederate grey is most apt. They lost. Yet they never admitted it. Thus, we are here with some States we could easily send packing...

Miss Stein

2013-01-06 05:59:16 AM

rynthetyn: Whiteston: Dude, Song of the South is a good movie. It's fun, entertaining and my family loves it. Lighten up people no harm intended - and if you think there was then you need to stop walking funny and get that 3 ton chip off your shoulder. You obviously are missing the point of the story.

You probably say the same thing about minstrel shows.

"I was at a menstrual show. A MENSTRUAL show."

Bonzo_1116

2013-01-06 06:04:51 AM

I just recently read the Joel Chandler Harris stories...and what stuck out at me was not the overt racism, it was the classism. Uncle Remus even biatched out homeless former slaves, and recommends they work chain gangs in Georgia instead of moving out west.

The stories about church were hilarious, too.

varmitydog

2013-01-06 08:06:02 AM

It's strange that this movie, which provokes so much butthurt and outrage from the modern black agenda crowd and their conditioned minions, is originally from black tribal African characters. The writer, Joel Chandler Harris, grew up poor in rural Georgia because his father left his mother while she was pregnant in the 1850s. On his first job he was so ostracized by the local whites for being poor white trash that he spent his spare time hanging out with the local former slaves, who turned him on to these stories. He was so impressed by the wisdom and dignity of the African based stories that he used them as the main characters in his stories. For the rest of his life Harris was a champion of black rights, championing black education and frequently rebutting racist editorials through his position at the Atlanta Journal.

By the way, the town that these black story tellers lived in that Joel Chandler Harris's work was based on (Eatonton, Georgia) produced another great writer a century later---Alice Walker. Alice Walker's grandfather was also a great storyteller, and it is him whose life the main character in "The Color Purple" was based on.

bborchar

2013-01-06 08:20:18 AM

Why aren't these same nitpicks applied to other old Disney movies? The portrayal of "injuns" in Peter Pan was probably the most racist thing in any of his movies, but no one ever peeps about that. But you can find racist stuff in Pinocchio, Dumbo, Snow White, etc, if you try. But it's also something that you see in all of the movies from those time periods. SOTS is unfairly crucified, IMO.

Tyrone Slothrop

2013-01-06 09:47:52 AM

MrEricSir: blue_2501: Considering how Disney is trying to sexualize its tween show stars

Right, teens never thought about sexuality until Disney came along. Perish the thought.

If teens were sexual, there'd be a word to decribe it. Maybe someting like a teen acting like bait that could lead to jail if you actually have sex with them.

chewielouie

2013-01-06 09:49:19 AM

karl2025: So... This may be a stupid question and a little unrelated, but it's close enough... Why is "Tar Baby" considered a slur?

TheMatchHare

2013-01-06 09:49:28 AM

bborchar: Why aren't these same nitpicks applied to other old Disney movies? The portrayal of "injuns" in Peter Pan was probably the most racist thing in any of his movies, but no one ever peeps about that. But you can find racist stuff in Pinocchio, Dumbo, Snow White, etc, if you try. But it's also something that you see in all of the movies from those time periods. SOTS is unfairly crucified, IMO.

That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. When Disney released their "Walt Disney Treasures" DVDs a while ago they actually had Leonard Malton come on before particularly offensive cartoon shorts and essentially publicly apologize on behalf of the company, citing other works common "back in the day". I honestly wish Disney would just release Song of the South, face the shiatstorm and get it over with. Sure, it's offensive in its portrayals, but not uniquely so that it should be regarded so differently that other works...

Tyrone Slothrop

2013-01-06 10:02:20 AM

LeafyGreens: I have a first edition of Little Black Sambo, and I always read it as a clever boy duping the mean tiger into get some pancakes.

It is, and has nothing to do with African Americans. Sambo is an (east) Indian.

Tyrone Slothrop

2013-01-06 10:09:00 AM

varmitydog: It's strange that this movie, which provokes so much butthurt and outrage from the modern black agenda crowd and their conditioned minions, is originally from black tribal African characters. The writer, Joel Chandler Harris, grew up poor in rural Georgia because his father left his mother while she was pregnant in the 1850s. On his first job he was so ostracized by the local whites for being poor white trash that he spent his spare time hanging out with the local former slaves, who turned him on to these stories. He was so impressed by the wisdom and dignity of the African based stories that he used them as the main characters in his stories. For the rest of his life Harris was a champion of black rights, championing black education and frequently rebutting racist editorials through his position at the Atlanta Journal.

By the way, the town that these black story tellers lived in that Joel Chandler Harris's work was based on (Eatonton, Georgia) produced another great writer a century later---Alice Walker. Alice Walker's grandfather was also a great storyteller, and it is him whose life the main character in "The Color Purple" was based on.

Uncle Remus stories are just reworking of the Anasi stories.

Mugato

2013-01-06 10:20:55 AM

puckrock2000: Mugato:

That ride seems to attract trouble. My girlfriend flashed the camera that takes your picture at the end of the ride. We were met by scary security guard guys and severely warned. I suppose they could have had her arrested if they wanted.

Well, since Disney security guards are not cops, the worst they could do is just kick you out of the park.

Well as a matter of fact in a separate incident I passed out drunk on the monorail and they did kick me out. Then there was the time I got head in the cave in Tom Sawyer's island but I didn't get busted for that. BTW, the bottomless pit isn't bottomless. If you jump down there's an area comfortable for two.

Prank Call of Cthulhu

2013-01-06 10:33:50 AM

I like the part where after Massa's little white boy gets gored by the bull, all the negroes stand around looking sad and singing mournful dirges. You know that probably once a week on that plantation, some little black kid gets run over by an ox cart or something and all the white people are like, "Meh," but hurt a white kid and all of a sudden everything comes to a halt.

Wadded Beef

2013-01-06 11:00:38 AM

blue_2501: MrEricSir: blue_2501: Considering how Disney is trying to sexualize its tween show stars

Right, teens never thought about sexuality until Disney came along. Perish the thought.

No, but Disney has made a science of handpicking the most "photogenic" teenagers possible, applying an unrealistic amount of makeup on them, and then ditching them when their (over)acting skills ends up not working out in the real world. Britney Spears? Lindsay Lohan? Amanda Bynes? That South Park skit about Mickey Mouse and the purity rings really captures exactly how Disney does business.

You honestly believe that Martin Martin guy is going to actually get any sort of acting gig outside of Disney? Real Hollywood hates that overacting bullshiat (as does most adults). They are profit generators... that's it.

Hell, the model is so successful that Nick is just following the handbook step-by-step. Even Cartoon Network is slowly turning into another Disney/Nick channel, with its crappy non-cartoon lineup.

Apart from the hyper-sexualization of tweens, Disney Channel needs to be destroyed because it's emphasizing a generation of kids to be loud, back-talking smartasses.

StoPPeRmobile

2013-01-06 11:06:04 AM

rynthetyn: I just downloaded and started watching Song of the South. Man, that's an uncomfortable movie to watch. Also, was Samuel L. Jackson doing an Uncle Remus impression in Django?

Fano

2013-01-06 12:29:22 PM

Uncle Ruckus needs to give this thread a solid kick.

Champion of the Sun

2013-01-06 12:39:51 PM

Why is it Disney's fault that you're all a bunch of pedos? Just because they hire attractive teenagers for their shows aimed at teenagers doesn't mean they're sexualizing them. Should they only hire ugly kids so your pants don't get too tight?

Mrbogey

2013-01-06 01:14:36 PM

BullBearMS: Whatever you do, do NOT watch the alternate history mockumentary, CSA: Confederate States of America.

Now THAT is an attempt to be as overtly trolly racist as possible.

For real. It's a long troll. Truly brilliant in how it holds no punches. At no point does it try and do anything other than stoke a flamewar.

Optimal_Illusion

2013-01-06 01:27:12 PM

Honkies sure crack me up.

MusicMakeMyHeadPound

2013-01-06 02:39:06 PM

Optimal_Illusion: Honkies sure crack me up.

StoPPeRmobile

2013-01-06 03:29:21 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Optimal_Illusion: Honkies sure crack me up.

[palmsout.net image 600x191]

Keizer_Ghidorah

2013-01-06 07:27:50 PM

hbk72777: "We're through with caviar," Walt Disney lamented. "From now on it's mashed potatoes and gravy." The company that bore his name was reeling from the disappointing box office returns of Pinocchio and Fantasia."

So people even back then knew Fantasia sucked?

Fark you and the horse you rode in on.

soupbone

2013-01-07 12:24:11 AM

Mugato: puckrock2000: Mugato:

That ride seems to attract trouble. My girlfriend flashed the camera that takes your picture at the end of the ride. We were met by scary security guard guys and severely warned. I suppose they could have had her arrested if they wanted.

Well, since Disney security guards are not cops, the worst they could do is just kick you out of the park.

Well as a matter of fact in a separate incident I passed out drunk on the monorail and they did kick me out. Then there was the time I got head in the cave in Tom Sawyer's island but I didn't get busted for that. BTW, the bottomless pit isn't bottomless. If you jump down there's an area comfortable for two.

Yeah, no.

Tozmo

2013-01-07 04:11:02 AM

GrizzledVeteran: /very, very tired of academic grousing and "layered readings" re Disney, past and present. Have any of you ever listened to any dry-as-dust conference papers about this?

Yes, I have written a few and read (or have saved) almost anything academic related to Disney parks (not movies or the company). Some are great, and a few are sub-par, making me question how it got published.. Essentially if the article talks about gender or race, it sucks. That applies to any topic. If it discusses EPCOT, it can be good, since EPCOT the vision, EPCOT the implementation, and EPCOT the island-in-time are rather interesting (to me). But Baudrillard and Eco have both written on the topic of Disneyland and did it quite well.

Anyone interested in the topic of theme park academics should read Vinyl Leaves. My personal greatest achievement would be figuring out how to update that book without rehashing it; it was so well done the first time.

DjangoStonereaver

2013-01-07 09:08:33 AM

BullBearMS: Whatever you do, do NOT watch the alternate history mockumentary, CSA: Confederate States of America.

Now THAT is an attempt to be as overtly trolly racist as possible.

It showed up on IFC a couple of months ago, and I have to say that while it is a bit too over-wrought at
times, as well as being historically dubious (for example, I doubt very much their CSA would have had
anything like a viable space program given how differently they dealt with the threat of the Nazis),
some of its extrapolations about what the popular culture of their alternate-present would be like are
pretty authentic seeming (their version of the Home Shopping Network, the relative blandness of their
popular music without the influence of black artists etc).

Not great, but certainly interesting.

stupiddream

2013-01-07 09:58:39 AM

I bought a DVD copy of SOTS at an antique store just outside of Helen GA. in October. The store had a whole stack of them. I bought it because I saw the movie when I was a child in the theater in the early 70's and I loved it. Somehow the Netflix movie always edges it out and I still haven't rewatched it. I've got homework tonight.

Mugato

2013-01-07 10:12:34 AM

soupbone: Mugato: puckrock2000: Mugato:

That ride seems to attract trouble. My girlfriend flashed the camera that takes your picture at the end of the ride. We were met by scary security guard guys and severely warned. I suppose they could have had her arrested if they wanted.

Well, since Disney security guards are not cops, the worst they could do is just kick you out of the park.

Well as a matter of fact in a separate incident I passed out drunk on the monorail and they did kick me out. Then there was the time I got head in the cave in Tom Sawyer's island but I didn't get busted for that. BTW, the bottomless pit isn't bottomless. If you jump down there's an area comfortable for two.

Yeah, no.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 323x416]

No really, there;s a roughly 10x10 area under the bottomless pit in Injun Joe's cave.

Optimal_Illusion

2013-01-08 01:24:50 PM

StoPPeRmobile: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Optimal_Illusion: Honkies sure crack me up.

[palmsout.net image 600x191]

[t1.gstatic.com image 275x183]

You'd be surprised how much Black humor us Native Americans get. But very few other cultures get our humor.

/Cheech and Chong were also crazy popular with us back in the day.

CptnSpldng

2013-01-08 08:22:00 PM

Fark it.

I can't 'sell' that many songs and it's a farkin shame that the one I can really do is in 'dialect.'

"on the 7th hour.
"on the 7th day,
"on the 7th month, y'all,
"the 7 doctors say
"he was born for good luck
"and that you will see
'I got 7 hunred dollars
"Don't you fark with me
"You know I'm here....

CptnSpldng

2013-01-08 08:29:46 PM

chewielouie: karl2025: So... This may be a stupid question and a little unrelated, but it's close enough... Why is "Tar Baby" considered a slur?

[news.3yen.com image 333x249]

Just turned my local store manager on to that clip. Now, all she has to do when she's pissed at me is say, "Daid Honky."

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