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(Yahoo)   If you're in need of CPR- don't rely on a bystander to help you out, even if they're able   ( dailynews.yahoo.com) divider line
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4784 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Nov 2001 at 12:08 AM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

44 Comments     (+0 »)
2001-11-24 12:20:09 AM  
The guy who trained us to do CPR also told us that you're probably going to break some ribs if you do it right. On the first stroke, you shoul dhear something that sounds a little like someone crushing a polystyrene cup.

I suggested that he put polystyrene cups into the practice dummies for additional realism...
2001-11-24 12:25:39 AM  
I taught ice skating a while back, and we weren't allowed to 'publicy say' that we knew CPR because if we did, and tried, and it didn't work, the rink would have been held liable...

Also, did you guys see that Dateline when that kid jumped off a bridge back east in front of all kinds of people, including police etc....and one guy who was just rollerblading by or something, jumped in to save the kid, and because everyone just stood there for so long the kid died....????
2001-11-24 12:36:21 AM  
I used to be a First Responder (one step below EMT) with the fire dept. and I had to do CPR about 5 times I think. The only person whose ribs I broke was an 86 year old man suffering an MI. He didn't make it, which was probably for the best since he had no ribs left. The sound didn't strike me nearly as much as the actual feeling. They bring up a good point though - CPR classes don't prepare you for the harsh reality of it. You have to deal with vomit and frequently they will crap themselves too. You have to remain very focused to keep from getting nauseous. Scary stuff.
2001-11-24 12:37:20 AM  
people are so sue crazy nowadays, though. you try and help them. they can turn around and say you did this or that and nex tthing you know, your in court being sued for however many million dollars. it's happened many times.

it's farking pathetic. the world has gotten to a point where you stop and weigh the possible pros and cons and your own personal saftey before helping somebody in these circumstances. ungh.. people suck. myself included.
2001-11-24 12:50:47 AM  
Doesn't the US have a "Good Samaritan" law? I know we have one up here in Canada. I don't know the exact details of it, but somehow it protects us from being held liable if we try to help someone, and we screw up.

Anyways, it seems sad that someone would sue you for trying to save their life. If they feel that way, then they shouldn't have gotten in that accident in the first place.
2001-11-24 12:51:05 AM  
Gomi, I think it's irresponsible not to consider your own personal safety before trying to rescue someone. I would not try to save someone if it was very unlikely that I would survive the attempt.

I do, however, think it's BS to have to consider insurance and lawsuit potential before trying to help someone. At the same fire department I mentioned above, one of our ambulances transported a woman that was found unconscious on the floor of a store. She later sued the department over the $300 fee because she "did not consent" to the transport. Obviously, that is an awfully bad precedent to set. If I was found unconscious somewhere, I would be mighty ticked off if I died while the medics were trying to revive me in order to get my consent to go to the hospital.

As an aside, the state of Louisiana has a law on the books that allows witnesses to an accident to sue the parties involved if seeing the accident causes undue mental stress. And they wonder why insurance rates are so high in that state.
2001-11-24 12:52:53 AM  
CPR... or trying to help somebody who's hurt or in trouble anyway else..
2001-11-24 01:03:10 AM  
Remember Seinfield??? Didn't that final episode have something to do with the 'good sam' law?? I think that was in Connecticut though..... I think

And look where they are now?? Last place in the ratings for George, cancelled show for Kramer, not'n for Jerry, a cameo or so for Elaine, maybe......
2001-11-24 01:03:41 AM  
i didn't know such laws existed in canada.. i'll have to look that up. otherwise, i'm very reluctant to get invovled beyond calling emergency services or whatnot for somebody. all i need at this point in my life is for said life to be completley wrecked by losing a lawsuit to some idiot who says i greatly worsened their injuries or whatever else through my actions to help them.

i've been screwed over by way too many people as it is already.
2001-11-24 01:07:50 AM  
If you're a lifeguard, like many friends of mine (and I'm trained as well), and a situation arises where somebody at your pool (recreational area, etc.) needs life-saving, you'd better make DAMN sure you know what you're doing. If somebody dies on your watch, you are bent over, emotionally and financially.

On another note, if you're in need of CPR (cardiopulminary resuscitation where the victim has stopped breathing / lost a heart beat and in every case I've heard is unconscious, how do you plan on not relying on somebody else? You're sure not gonna help yourself in that situation.
2001-11-24 01:08:26 AM  
Gomi, indeed they do (Good Samaritan law protecting CPR rescuer from a suit).

But I don't know if they do here in TN...I'll have to look it up. Until I find out though, I won't let if affect me. If someone needs help, and I can provide, I'm going to!
2001-11-24 01:21:44 AM  
I wouldn't do CPR, not because I not prepared for the harsh realities, but because I dont give a fark if you die. I think most people are like that, but that don't admit it. If you see someone dying and you don't give the CPR when you know, its because you don't farking care enough to do it, end of story. Why make up stupid excuses? Just be honest.

you cabn all die, I don't give a shiat.
2001-11-24 01:27:04 AM  
what a sad sad world we live in...:(
2001-11-24 01:27:23 AM  
Yep, I was trained for CPR and would think twice about performing it. By the very nature of what you're doing it's almost guaranteed that you'll break a rib, and I don't feel like getting sued by some ungrateful asshole.

Sad but true.
2001-11-24 01:27:24 AM  
DrasticMan: I would think that your employer (pool, beach resort, etc) would carry insurance to cover them & you in case of a lawsuit involving a rescue.
2001-11-24 01:29:58 AM  
I've had CPR training, but I've never been called upon to use it. I have however used the Heimlich several times.
2001-11-24 01:30:09 AM  
Gomi: I found the Good Samaritan Act for Ontario here. Apparently, there are different "Good Samaritan" laws for every province, so this one only applies to Ontario.
2001-11-24 01:50:09 AM  
Gear Jammer, true. A couple of off-duty lifeguards from the pool my friends worked at were sued for starting to save somebody and failing.

Fun fact -- you are, again, bent over if you start giving somebody treatment and then stop before they recover or EMTs / other licensed pro's show up.
2001-11-24 01:52:12 AM  
Way back when I worked as a lifeuard, a girl was doing reverse summersaults off the three meter board, she hit the back of her head and was knocked out. I had to dive in and get her. Had to wait to do rescue breathing and CPR until we got her on a backboard in the water. She was turning blue and dropped a load, but we got her strapped in and out of the water. Between myself and 2 other lifeguards, we did CPR for about 10 minutes until an ambulance arrived. The girl lived but ended up with a slight paralysis on her left side.
2001-11-24 01:58:59 AM  
I am trained in CPR and First Aid for my sports medicine class at school (high school)... the course we were using kinda went over that when you do CPR, the person is already dead, and that if you do CPR and they dont resucitate, then it is merely that they stayed dead, you did NOT kill them. While this in is self is somewhat comforting, some other things are not:
My teacher was talking to me and was telling me that the person who trained her told her that often during CPR, the patient gets a spontanious erection (obviously only in men).
Another thing that is somewhat depressing is in my class they taught us the ABC's. What they didnt teach us is that something like 15% of people who just have CPR preformed on them do not regain life. People need to be trained on AED (Automatic External Defibrillator) use. Basically the person can have an arrythmia, and the chest compressions wont be doing much for them. So CPR is good, but it doesnt do too much by itself other than trying to maintain perfusion of oxygen to tissues.

Just my 2 cents...
2001-11-24 02:36:18 AM  
Too much crap....overloading ability to give a damn about people.

Why the fakr isn't there some sort of Good Samaritan Law (or whatever you want to call it, if it's offending any non-Christians) in the books for the Federal govt? We, as U.S. citizens, claim to be the caretakers of the world, the most sophisticated and least biased country in the world. Why the fakr did Canada (no offense, Canada, I completely respect much of your culture) beat us to this? Sure, their laws may be provincial, but at least most provinces have them.

Now, I'm not saying that a Good Samaritan Law should prosecute those that witness a crime or tragedy and don't want to help (like in Seinfeld), but it should be in place to protect those that wish to help and aren't paid to help (that doesn't count those that are paid to assist...fire fighters, police officers, EMT's, doctors, etc....they should be well-trained to assist, and are duty-bound and paid well to help) from being sued for whatever may come of their help.

Aw, hell...it's inevitable that I'll be moving to Canada all too early in life. It's almost to the point where I can't stand to be a US citizen anymore! See you in da north dere, eh?
2001-11-24 02:52:03 AM  
I'm pretty sure that there is a Good Samaritan law in Maryland. I seem to remember talk of it some years ago. It may be the same as up in Canada though, in that it is up to individual states to pass said law and not a national law. If so you should check to see what your states laws regarding this are and if there are no protections for good samaritans fight to have them changed.
2001-11-24 03:04:41 AM  
Yeah...the fact that we even NEED "Good Samaritan" laws is pretty damn sad.
(although, IIRC, the last Seinfeld episode was more of a reverse of the above. That is, instead of being protected from persecution if you attempt to help and screw up, the Seinfeld crew got persecuted for refusing to attempt to help.)
2001-11-24 03:21:35 AM  
I did a Google search and found that Maryland and Viginia both have pretty good Good Sam legislation in place. I could not find any one site that gave information on all states though (so I have no link). However it seemed from what I read that the laws vary widely from state to state. Some even have laws like what Ishidan refered to in the Seinfeld episode that require you to assist someone in danger.
2001-11-24 04:20:48 AM  
I say if you help them and they regain life..
you get half their earnings for the next 25 years......
2001-11-24 05:17:32 AM  
Augie Ben Doggie: That would definitely motivate people to help eachother, and keep those idiots from putting themselves in dangerous health or dangerous situations.

Hell, CPR certification itself would be big business then, and I don't exactly know if that's a good thing.
2001-11-24 06:08:05 AM  
Whole new round of lawsuits. Your honor I swear he was having a heart attack when I started beating on his chest and brought him back to life. Now he refuses to fork over his earnings to me.
2001-11-24 06:09:39 AM  
Good call, Gear Jammer. Need to start thinking these things through....
2001-11-24 07:11:03 AM  
Oh fark that... I'd sooner drive a flaming piece of metal to the back of my leg then do CPR on some idiot i don't even know, especially with gross stuff coming out[though I might bang on his chest a few times for the hell of.. heh]. I'd have to REALLY love someone to submit myself to that stuff... which rules out everyone, so go die somewhere, i don't give a fark.

[As for the Seinfeld eisode, that is the stupidest shiat ever; you can't farking make you help people; ESPECIALLY fat people, and if it'd put you in risk, and you don't know kung fu, and you don't have a gun, and ammo...]
2001-11-24 10:37:06 AM  
I have "saved" 3 people from choking, and each of them got ribs broken.
2001-11-24 11:14:05 AM  

It wasn't a kid who jumped off the bridge. It was a black man in his late twenties who had gone psychotic or something and was standing on the side of a bridge about to jump. There were tons of police and firefighters and EMTs there trying to talk him down. Anyway, he ended up jumping and he obviously could not swim. Not a single police officer, firefighter, or EMT jumped in the river to save him. After about 5 or 6 minutes I think, a pedestrian who just happened to be there jumped in and pulled him out. The guy ended up dying but atleast that one guy tried to help him while everyone else stood around.
2001-11-24 11:27:02 AM  
al·tru·ism (ltr-zm)n.
Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness.
Zoology. Instinctive cooperative behavior that is detrimental to the individual but contributes to the survival of the species.

I agree with Ishidan (instead of being protected from persecution if you attempt to help and screw up, the Seinfeld crew got persecuted for refusing to attempt to help.) I think that NOBODY should be forced to do anything in this great country of ours.

I, for one, took a Marksmanship and first aid (along with CPR) course, which was offered at the local college under the ROTC program, and I was DAMN tired after compressing a chest dummy after 5 minutes. I would hate to be sued because of my physical ability. And who is a better judge of my physical ability, a judge, lawyer, or myself?

I guess if someone were wanting to sue me, they can try. I don't think they get much cash out my sorry student ass.

I think a NATIONAL law to PROTECT ( and not oblige to help ) good Samaritans is in order. I also think that first aid / CPR training should be a requirement, not only in college, but also in High School. JUST LIKE DRIVER'S ED SHOULD ALSO BE A REQUIREMENT IN HIGH SCHOOL. MUCH better than having to take "French" or wood shop. Doesn't everybody agree that if we taught some of these idiots how to YIELD and know how to tell the difference between high beams and their ass, that we would ALL live in a safer place?

I had one student criticize me and ask, "How are we going to pay for all of this?" Simply. We fire the French teachers! If we can afford to buy PCs and build new High Schools every 8 years, why can't we pay for Driver's ed? That is the ONLY class that stuck with me 100% I know that a LOT of students are NEVER going to use any of the Algebra, Geometry, World history, Economics, Physics, Chemistry, Geology, Marine biology, ( insert subect here) once they get out of high school.

Seinfeld rules.
2001-11-24 12:02:51 PM  

I totally agree. I am in high school right now and I don't think there is a single job that will require you knowing Algebra 2 or Biology 2. I have already taken Driver's Ed to lower my insurance but I think it should be required for everyone.

I'll have to take Spanish next year and I have no reason whatsoever for learning Spanish. I don't know any Spanish people. I don't ever want to go south of the American border.
2001-11-24 12:30:32 PM  
If you are trained by the Red Cross, I believe you are covered if you are sued. You must have a valid card though.
2001-11-24 01:02:55 PM  
DuSaugen: This is getting a little off topic from this thread, but in any case;

Algebra is essential if, for example, you want to create 3D graphics on a computer screen (i.e. for games). The vector math is required to calculate coordinates of a 3D shape or to determine different shades of lighting (normalization). Of course, if you don't plan on using Algebra for games, you can use it to help you build a building. Again, the vector math helps determine the amount of force being applied to various objects in the structure.

Biology is a good stepping stone to becoming a doctor or a veteranarian. It's helps to explore how plants and animals function through life and gives you an idea of their chemical make-up.

There are several other examples I could come up with, but the point I'm trying to make is that not all courses in high school are useless. And even then, the courses that are available barely even touch on a subject. You think high school Algebra is a challenge, try it at a university level.

Besides, the point of taking these courses is not to prepare yourself for a career. That's what college and university are for. Instead, they help you experience a little of everything, so that you can make the right decision when you do have to choose a career.

Anyways, enough of playing Guidance Counselor for me, back to our regularily scheduled program; "CPR: The Silent Killer".
2001-11-24 01:04:24 PM  
well mistersym

would it come as a surprise to you to know that the majority of firefighters and first responders in this country are volunteers. all volunteer firefighters do not know cpr, either, as it is not required.

being a volunteer firefighter/first responder myself, with the sue happy world out there, i do not respond to emergencies unless dispatched. dispatching provides the protection of our state's good samaritan law. the only pay we get for using our time and gas is thanks. and thats good enough for me.
2001-11-24 04:24:27 PM  
"I think that NOBODY should be forced to do anything in this great country of ours. "

Stupid blind patriotsm every farking where i go, even on the net?! You are not the pinacle of human goodness you know, gawds...
2001-11-24 06:17:34 PM  
This happend recently at work to a security guard who is also a good friend of mine. He had a heart attact right in front of other certified guards, and the first responce team requested assistance, and would you believe they denied knowing CPR !?! To make matters worse, the MF lied and said he gave my friend CPR when I was there he did not! So now this dude is walking the heroes walk, when he is a coward and a liar twice over! Makes me sick. A stranger is 1 thing, but a beloved co-worker and friend? I will be the first to tell him how "loved" he is when he returns to work!
2001-11-24 06:28:04 PM  
I'm a lifeguard and EMT, and I have had to do CPR several times. I've been puked on, shiat and pissed on. Most people in the occupation I'm in are in it to help people. That said, at work this summer, my 19-year-old girlfriend saved the life of some kid whose parents were apparently too busy to watch their child in the water. This poor girl was subsequently sued because she broke a rib keeping this little guy alive until paramedics showed up. My friend "discreetly" let the local media know of this stupidity and the resulting public outcry not only resulted in dropped charges of negligence, but also reinforced the idea that my girlfriend had done the right thing and was not to blame. It's nice to know that there is still some common sense in a few places.
2001-11-24 08:15:34 PM  
In many places, 'failure to render aid' is illegal. What this means is that if you are walking down the street and some little old woman gets hit by a bus, you are legally obligated to attempt to save her. Standing around watching with your thumb up your ass can get you sued under this law. So, if you aren't planning on helping, better beat feet and make yourself scarce.

I disagree very much with this law, if I want to stand around and watch someone bleed to death in the street, I damn well ought to be allowed to.

As for:
"I had one student criticize me and ask, "How are we going to pay for all of this?" Simply. We fire the French teachers!"

In many schools around here the althletic department has a larger budget than the rest of the school, including teachers salaries. You want to pay for something else? No problem, trim back football.
2001-11-24 10:34:05 PM  
I live in California, we have a Good Samaritan law...You cannot be sued for attempting to help, that is unless you are completly incompitent..
2001-11-24 10:49:21 PM  
DAMN straight, Everest; I was in a bit in a hurry and forgot to add that in, wink, wink ;)
11-24-01 04:24:27 PM SadMan#9
"I think that NOBODY should be forced to do anything in this great country of ours. "

Stupid blind patriotsm every farking where i go, even on the net?! You are not the pinacle of human goodness you know, gawds...
I do not claim to be the pinnacle ( I want to kick some ass every now and then...), I guess what I SHOULD have said was: "Nobody should be forced to do anything that he or she does not wish to do." Freedom is a good thing. That's why we live in a good country, because ir is based on that. I would much rather be called a secular humanist than a patriot or a Christian. The time is NOW and the place is HERE for making a better society. NOT in Heaven. Not in saluting a flag and moments of silence or prayer. Like Adam Sandler said in "Little Nicky"......."Release the Good!"

I, for one, do not like being FORCED to do something that is right. Ask me if I attend church. I will NOT save someone's life for the selfish act of going to Heaven. Life is a precious thing, regardless of the person. If YOU needed it, SadMan#9 , I would perform first aid/CPR on you. I would expect nothing in return (except maybe Dinner at the Olive Garden, TGI Friday's, or Applebee's!...Get yer wallet ready! I am a BIG man!)

BTW, pinnacle, not pinacle.
2001-11-24 10:52:56 PM  
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2001-11-24 10:53:52 PM  
looks like some darn filter filtered out my spaces... :(
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