blue_2501: Superman is ultra boring and mega lame. Why? Because you have very few weaknesses, all of the stories are going to revolve around those weaknesses, over and over and over and over again. I mean, have you seen a Superman movie that DIDN'T involve Kryptonite?Also, his "stars and stripes forever" level of patriotism makes him a pretty one-dimensional goody two shoes. Batman has a dark side and a dark past. Many good superheroes do. The best stories revolve around anti-heroes or ones that have danced around shades of grey.Lastly, when Alan Moore was creating the character Dr. Manhattan, he was basically making fun of Superman. This is what you do when you have as much power as Superman...
dalbuc: So the defense of the ball of suck that is superman is that in 1932 he didn't suck - not sure beating up landlords and ward bosses doesn't suck but whatever floats your boat. Superman is a god and stories about gods suck. Stories about people f'ed with by the gods don't suck. The Iliad isn't about the god, it is about the people the gods have ruined. It is entirely possible a Lois Lane focused movie would be vastly more compelling than a Superman focused movie.Superman also has no rivals anyone cares about. Batman has rivals that people want to see - the Joker being likely the best arch-villain out there. Superman doesn't have anyone that sniffs Joker level and really nothing at the Catwoman/Penguin level.
Champion of the Sun: I was being serious about the truth justice and the American way thing. Yes, America has an ugly past but we at least paid lip service to a higher ideal. Now no one cares about justice as we kill people with drones. Superman probably wouldn't be cool with one in five American children going hungry. I can't remember the last time I heard truth out of any public figure, even the ones I kinda like
CPT Ethanolic: Batman is easier because of the "dark" past. It's the same reason that goth poetry is easy. Selling misery/darkness is always easier than selling hope.
AsprinBurn: Superman is the classic "god in love with a mortal" archetype
Mister Peejay: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: To be fair Christopher Nolan made Batman boring too.He did make The Joker interesting, though.
karasoth: Bill Frist: dalbuc: Superman also has no rivals anyone cares about. Batman has rivals that people want to see - the Joker being likely the best arch-villain out there. Superman doesn't have anyone that sniffs Joker level and really nothing at the Catwoman/Penguin level.Lex is a cool villain, but everyone else in Superman's rogue gallery is pretty farking dumb. I mean, who are the next biggest ones? Brainiac and Mr. Mxyzptlk?LexBraniacZod (his big entry into comics was pretty awesome)DarksideCyborg-SupermanMetalloBizarroParasiteMister MxyzptlkDoomsdayToyman
demonfaerie: I actually enjoyed Superman in the DC cartoons, but mostly when Batman is around. They really complement each other well. I have not read enough Superman comics, but that was because I couldn't get into them. However, didn't they just hook up Superman and Wonder Woman to make them more relevant again? Also they did with match.com I guess too. http://mashable.com/2012/08/27/superman-wonder-woman/Also obligatory: Death and Return of SupermanSums up Superman.
Jizz Master Zero: WhippingBoy: If I made a Superman movie, it would be 2 1/2 hours of Superman kicking ass.No drama, no weaknesses, no overcoming obstacles, just a whole bunch of ass kicking.Sounds like a boring farking movie.
WhippingBoy: If I made a Superman movie, it would be 2 1/2 hours of Superman kicking ass.No drama, no weaknesses, no overcoming obstacles, just a whole bunch of ass kicking.
jj325: I think that a part of the problem is that to a whole generation, and to a lot of other people, this[scrapetv.com image 283x350]is Superman. Christopher Reeve owned that role, and his image has become so closely associated with Superman, that it's hard to get people on the side of a different actor.
downstairs: CPT Ethanolic: Batman is easier because of the "dark" past. It's the same reason that goth poetry is easy. Selling misery/darkness is always easier than selling hope.Never thought of it that way, good analogy.
kroonermanblack: No, but he has to work to achieve his goals. There's actual risk to the character conceptually. He can have his back broken, or need to make a gizmo, or do things. Superman? None of that. There's no stress or issue, all he has to do to overcome obstacles? Stop stopping himself a fraction of a bit. That's it.
Champion of the Sun: DarkPascual: BTW... what I said was totally from a narrative standpoint... Not being from the USA gives me certain difficulty to approach things the American way...Inside every furriner is an American just waiting to get out. Buy some guns and worship the rich, and you'll be welcomed with open arms. You're white, right?
thornhill: The problem with Superman, is that if there's never any real risk of him dying -- he's not risking his life to save humanity. At most, it disrupts his personal life. And it's hard to feel bad for someone who's omnipotent.
PIP_the_TROLL: Flawed is easy to write. Being a stand up guy is hard.
velvet_fog: For the love of God, just don't make Superman all dark and angsty. I hate how the fanboys have won and now everything has to be dark and serious or else they get their panties in a wad that directors aren't taking their favorite childhood hero/cartoon character seriously enough. Case in point: the persistent hate for the 60s Batman show. But it's a totally legit take on Batman. It was well-written, had good actors, and had a high budget (for its time). The writers knew exactly what they were doing and it works on different levels. It's a hell of a lot better then the dour and sanctimonious Dark Knight Rises and definitely better than the Burton/Schumacher messes of the 90s.What I'm saying is - keep Superman lighthearted and don't turn him into Space Jesus. Not everything has to be dark and angry.
DarkPascual: The thing to me is that Superman represents the BEST that humanity could achieve as a moral standpoint. He is potential fully realized. He is a god among men, who could easily just blow shiat to pieces, and crown himself king and rule as he sees fit... but he decides to put his unmeasurable power to serve others. He decides to fight the intergalactic tyrants, and mad scientist and mad gods that want to put the world under their iron fists... and he decides to do it because he feels that is the right thing to do.
DarkPascual: Superman and Captain America probably aren't the coolest, but they are good men, and those characters are needed too.
had98c: Maybe it's harder because these stupid comic book characters have been done and redone a bazillion times already. How about trying something original for once?
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