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(Washington Post)   Democrats: You wanna bring on the debt limit? You really want to go there? Run the risk of destroying our economy and hurt your backers? Really? BRING IT ON   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
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4452 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Dec 2012 at 8:56 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Wheyfaring Stranger
2012-12-13 10:11:22 AM  

Frozboz: Old enough to know better: Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.

You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?

And thanks to gerrymandering, they're all going to get re-elected in 2014 anyway, so who cares? Americans must be punished for voting Obama a second term.


Not quite. Thanks to gerrymandering, a Republican will represent the district in 2014, but it might not be the incumbent. That's where Grover Norquist comes in.
 
Zeb Hesselgresser [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 10:15:54 AM  
Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?
NO.

"(Some) Americans must be punished for voting Obama a second term." It's called accountability, so yeah, it's time to reap what you sewed.

Unfortunately, "elections have consequences", and he won.
 
monoski [BareFark]
2012-12-13 10:16:00 AM  

Magruda: DeaH: Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.

Except it is nothing like that. If you are going to use the personal house metaphor it is more like having a contractor come to your house to do work and then a month later when he sends you the bill you refuse to make the funds available to pay him. Refusing to raise the debt ceiling is refusing to pay for things you have already bought, it is not raising your credit limit to buy more things.


Exactly, the money is already spent!
 
coeyagi
2012-12-13 10:16:34 AM  

Cythraul: coeyagi: Frozboz: Old enough to know better: Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.

You're making the assumption that they actually give a damn what the American people think. We're all a bunch of cretins who re-elected Obama just to get free stuff, remember?

And thanks to gerrymandering, they're all going to get re-elected in 2014 anyway, so who cares? Americans must be punished for voting Obama a second term.

Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.

I think probably the only counter to that would be to get rid of the EC and just go with a popular vote.


Problem - one measure can be done state by state, the other would require an amendment.
 
dickfreckle [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 10:19:10 AM  

Cythraul: Republicans, you might want to check the poll numbers on who the American people will blame before you go making that challenge.


Republicans are incapable of assessing their own failures.

Expect more of the same.
 
JMacPA
2012-12-13 10:20:21 AM  

Magruda: Meanwhile not a peep from our media about what happend in Doha last week. Godamnitsomuch I hate the "liberal" media.


Ummmm?

CNN
ABC ABC
CBS CBS

Admittedly, it isn't much more than a peep, but it's there.

Also, I hear news is available on the internet now.
 
DeaH [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 10:23:46 AM  

Magruda: DeaH: Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.

Except it is nothing like that. If you are going to use the personal house metaphor it is more like having a contractor come to your house to do work and then a month later when he sends you the bill you refuse to make the funds available to pay him. Refusing to raise the debt ceiling is refusing to pay for things you have already bought, it is not raising your credit limit to buy more things.


Hence the "spending like mad" part of my post.
 
Magruda
2012-12-13 10:30:55 AM  

JMacPA: Magruda: Meanwhile not a peep from our media about what happend in Doha last week. Godamnitsomuch I hate the "liberal" media.

Ummmm?

CNN
ABC ABC
CBS CBS

Admittedly, it isn't much more than a peep, but it's there.

Also, I hear news is available on the internet now.


When I refer to "liberal" media it generally means televised news. He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs.
 
Magruda
2012-12-13 10:34:21 AM  

Magruda: He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs


Great, i just got farked in the boobies by my own phone.
 
verbaltoxin
2012-12-13 10:36:18 AM  

Magruda: Magruda: He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs

Great, i just got farked in the boobies by my own phone.


Tell us more....
 
Magruda
2012-12-13 10:41:47 AM  

verbaltoxin: Magruda: Magruda: He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs

Great, i just got farked in the boobies by my own phone.

Tell us more....


I tried to type hell and it changed it to he'll. Do you need visual aides?
 
Dr Dreidel
2012-12-13 10:54:09 AM  

Magruda: verbaltoxin: Magruda: Magruda: He'll even Fox looks progressive on the interwebs

Great, i just got farked in the boobies by my own phone.

Tell us more....

I tried to type hell and it changed it to he'll. Do you need visual aides?


As I understand it, you can't get visual AIDS from boobie-farking.

// no mucus membranes on the chesticles
 
theknuckler_33
2012-12-13 11:05:26 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: That happened at the end of 2009, when Evan Bayh, Kent Conrad, Dianne Feinstein, Mark Warner and Joe Lieberman threatened to not increase the debt limit if they didn't get in place a fiscal commission that would recommend spending and entitlement cuts. That's right, Democrats started the hijacking of the debt limit.


Bullshiat. You conveniently left out George Voinovich (R-Ohio) and Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) from your little list there and that bit of political theater was nothing more than a Senate power play to try to take spending legislation out of the hands of the House of Reps.
 
randomjsa
2012-12-13 11:08:03 AM  
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006
 
max_pooper
2012-12-13 11:15:32 AM  

randomjsa: The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006


Couldn't have said it better myself. The repeated failures of the GOP leadership in the House and Senate are 98% at fault for the "fiscal cliff" mess we are in right now. America deserves better, American needs to kick the "spend and borrow then blame on the black guy" GOP to the farking curb.
 
mrshowrules [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 11:20:05 AM  

randomjsa: The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006


You were so close to doing something clever. You should have posted this without citing the source and let the libbies attack your argument and then tell them who said it. So close.
 
Serious Black
2012-12-13 11:22:08 AM  

randomjsa: The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006


"Because of the unprecedented obstruction of our Democratic colleagues, the Republican conference intends to restore the principle that, regardless of party, any President's judicial nominees, after full debate, deserve a simple up-or-down vote. I know that some of our colleagues wish that restoration of this principle were not required. But it is a measured step that my friends on the other side of the aisle have unfortunately made necessary. For the first time in 214 years, they have changed the Senate's 'advise and consent' responsibilities to 'advise and obstruct.' [...] Given those results, many of us had hoped that the politics of obstruction would have been dumped in the dustbin of history. Regretfully, that did not happen." -- Senator McConnell, 2005.
 
LucklessWonder
2012-12-13 11:30:43 AM  

Serious Black: randomjsa: The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. -- Senator Obama 2006

"Because of the unprecedented obstruction of our Democratic colleagues, the Republican conference intends to restore the principle that, regardless of party, any President's judicial nominees, after full debate, deserve a simple up-or-down vote. I know that some of our colleagues wish that restoration of this principle were not required. But it is a measured step that my friends on the other side of the aisle have unfortunately made necessary. For the first time in 214 years, they have changed the Senate's 'advise and consent' responsibilities to 'advise and obstruct.' [...] Given those results, many of us had hoped that the politics of obstruction would have been dumped in the dustbin of history. Regretfully, that did not happen." -- Senator McConnell, 2005.


"I'm lookin' for a biatch to spend the night
Do the crazy thing while I fark all night
I make her do things like nothing before
And when I'm done, she'll always be sore
From the things I do when I'm farkin'
And when I'm tired, the biatches are suckin'
A double team with a friend of mine
Luke's in front and I'm behind
Just ridin' you like a pony
While you suck my dick, makin' me horny
Then all of a sudden we'll switch positions
Prop your ass up and freak the pushin'And when
I cum, you'll hear me roar
I'll treat any biatch like a whore
'Cause it's the way I like to fark
It's face down and ass up!" -- Fresh Kid Ice, 1990.

/What? It's just as relevant as the other two quotes...
 
Ishidan
2012-12-13 11:33:39 AM  

keylock71: I've said it before, but you can take every single Republican, put them on a barge, float it out into the Atlantic, and scuttle it for all I care anymore. There is nothing redeemable about the GOP, at the moment.


Yeah. Heh, here in Hawaii we have a long history of being deep blue-except for that one time we voted a Republican woman in as governor. Her name was Linda Lingle, She recently ran for Senate to fill the seat being vacated by Daniel Akaka, against another woman running as Democrat-Mazie Hirono.

Personally, I thought Lingle was all right. She was in charge during some difficult times, and I heartily told people who ran attack ads based on the fact that she made uncomfortable choices that led to state worker furloughs to go fark themselves, since I was in private industry and had received a much greater screwing over during those years.

But I voted against her anyway, mostly because I sure as hell did not want to see the balance tip further to "R"-and I had no faith that she had any clue what her new coworkers would do to her and expect of her.

But that was just me. My roomates voted against her because of the state worker furlough thing. One of them works for Costco, the other makes eleven bucks an hour...
 
Magorn [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 11:54:15 AM  
talkandpolitics.files.wordpress.comView Full Size


" I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part! and We're just the guys to do it. "
 
Rootus
2012-12-13 11:59:42 AM  

coeyagi: Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.


That would happen exactly one time. Winning the EC but losing the popular vote by a tiny margin is one thing, but with a disparity measured in millions of votes there would be a huge push to eliminate the EC.
 
AdamK [BareFark]
2012-12-13 12:38:50 PM  
eh, i'm ok with GOP political suicide if in the long-run the rest of us are better off

so sure, debt ceilings and stalemates leading to tax hikes + deep spending cuts? why the hell not? who cares about republican feelings if those are good things
 
TheNewJesus
2012-12-13 12:42:35 PM  
I"m with the Dems, finally someone over there found their balls.

fark the GOP radicals.
 
RminusQ [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 01:03:31 PM  

Rootus: coeyagi: Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.

That would happen exactly one time. Winning the EC but losing the popular vote by a tiny margin is one thing, but with a disparity measured in millions of votes there would be a huge push to eliminate the EC.


If Republicans are so fully craven to rig the Electoral College so as to "win" an election where 53% vote against their candidate, what in god's name makes you think you'll get Republican Congressmen, Senators, and state legislators to pass an amendment taking away their ability to do so?

Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?


I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.
 
coeyagi
2012-12-13 01:19:26 PM  

RminusQ: Rootus: coeyagi: Good story on Maddow last night, about how a bunch of GOP state legislatures are going to try to get rid of winner take all electoral votes for states (to be like Nebraska and Maine) - if that happened in 2012 for all 50 states, Romney would have won 276 EVs.

That would happen exactly one time. Winning the EC but losing the popular vote by a tiny margin is one thing, but with a disparity measured in millions of votes there would be a huge push to eliminate the EC.

If Republicans are so fully craven to rig the Electoral College so as to "win" an election where 53% vote against their candidate, what in god's name makes you think you'll get Republican Congressmen, Senators, and state legislators to pass an amendment taking away their ability to do so?
Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?

I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.


Exactly - the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans. The electorate isn't going to vote out the guys who used devious underhanded means to take control when their devious underhanded means is what keeps so many districts staying red.
 
Cyclometh [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 01:23:57 PM  
fundividedattention.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
Zeb Hesselgresser [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 02:34:26 PM  

coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?

I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.

Exactly - the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans. The electorate isn't going to vote out the guys who used devious underhanded means to take control when their devious underhanded means is what keeps so many districts staying red.


Gerrymandering has never been the exclusive tool of the GOP, in fact Illinois has one of the screwiest looking congressional districts on record - The Skateboard.

If you'll recall, in 2009 newly elected President Obama restructured the Census Bureau:

FTA
Under the new management structure, the director of the Census Bureau will report to "White House senior management" 

So yeah, unfortunately, BSRB, and yours is just doing it wrong.
 
coeyagi
2012-12-13 03:12:26 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?

I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.

Exactly - the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans. The electorate isn't going to vote out the guys who used devious underhanded means to take control when their devious underhanded means is what keeps so many districts staying red.

Gerrymandering has never been the exclusive tool of the GOP, in fact Illinois has one of the screwiest looking congressional districts on record - The Skateboard.

If you'll recall, in 2009 newly elected President Obama restructured the Census Bureau:

FTA
Under the new management structure, the director of the Census Bureau will report to "White House senior management" 

So yeah, unfortunately, BSRB, and yours is just doing it wrong.


I never said it was exclusive, I am just saying that at present, the party who can't find a resonating platform with a farking telescope, is utilizing the tool big time.
 
Zeb Hesselgresser [TotalFark]
2012-12-13 03:27:51 PM  

coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: coeyagi: Zeb Hesselgresser: Can we put the ''Republicans only held the house because of gerrymandering meme to rest? A handful of seats? Maybe. Control of the house? NO.

You've got 29 out of 50 Republican Governors, you have 29 of 50 state legislatures run by Republicans, with 3 or 4 more split between Republican and Democrat. You think that's because of gerrymandering?

I can't find the link right now, but Michigan voters voted some 52-48 for Democratic members of their state legislature. The result? Continued Republican control.

Exactly - the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans. The electorate isn't going to vote out the guys who used devious underhanded means to take control when their devious underhanded means is what keeps so many districts staying red.

Gerrymandering has never been the exclusive tool of the GOP, in fact Illinois has one of the screwiest looking congressional districts on record - The Skateboard.

If you'll recall, in 2009 newly elected President Obama restructured the Census Bureau:

FTA
Under the new management structure, the director of the Census Bureau will report to "White House senior management" 

So yeah, unfortunately, BSRB, and yours is just doing it wrong.

I never said it was exclusive, I am just saying that at present, the party who can't find a resonating platform with a farking telescope, is utilizing the tool big time.


"the gerrymandering system makes institutionalized pockets of Democrat voters in urban areas and ensures that election after election will go for Republicans" certainly sounds declarative, but
okay, INCUMBENTS would have made your point clearer.
 
mksmith
2012-12-13 04:02:22 PM  

Serious Black: Magruda: Meanwhile not a peep from our media about what happend in Doha last week. Godamnitsomuch I hate the "liberal" media.

Sometimes it's good being overseas. I get most of my news from Al-Jazeera and BBC now, and I hear about things I would never hear about if I were back in the states. Doha was covered pretty extensively by them.


If you guys are talking about the climate conference, . . . apparently nothing happened in Doha last week.
 
Alphax
2012-12-14 05:17:11 AM  

mittromneysdog: DeaH: The republican-controlled House controls spending bills. The debt ceiling is just a way of coming up with the credit to pay for the stuff the republicans spent. Holding the debt ceiling hostage is like stealing someone's credit card, spending like mad, and then calling to get the spending limit lower. In other words, it's dumb.

This.

If Republicans want to control the spending, the place to do it is in appropriations, which right now consists of a bunch of continuing resolutions. Don't want to increase our debt? Stop appropriating the goddamn money.

I believe we need a new national poll test, consisting of one question:

"Do you believe refusing to increase America's debt ceiling constitutes a fiscally responsible move?" Anyone who answers "yes" is irrevocably denied all political rights.


That right there would have eliminated everyone in Missouri's Republican primary to see who got to run against Claire McCaskill.
 
RminusQ [TotalFark]
2012-12-14 12:35:52 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Gerrymandering has never been the exclusive tool of the GOP, in fact Illinois has one of the screwiest looking congressional districts on record - The Skateboard.

If you'll recall, in 2009 newly elected President Obama restructured the Census Bureau:

FTA
Under the new management structure, the director of the Census Bureau will report to "White House senior management" 

So yeah, unfortunately, BSRB, and yours is just doing it wrong.


Are any of those statements supposed to be related? The Census Bureau counts people, and then applies an objective mathematical formula to determine how many seats in Congress each state gets. It has absolutely nothing to do with gerrymandering or how the new districts are drawn at all.
 
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