spmkk: TFA: "Muslim leaders are often angrier about terrorism than anyone else because they have to defend themselves on a daily basis, he said, but they don't let that anger show in public."THIS. This is the problem. THIS is why people don't get taken seriously when they assert that most Muslims oppose terrorism.Muslim leaders should be angry about terrorism NOT because it paints them in a bad light, but because people who subscribe to the religious/cultural institution of which they are leaders are f'ing killing people. And no - it's NOT enough to be privately, quietly "angry". (If you get angry at something that a child in your kindergarten does but don't speak up and tell the class that his actions were wrong, it will have no effect on their perception of his behavior and so the value of your anger is nil -- no matter how much you claim to feel it.)So long as Muslim leaders are "angry" about terrorism because it's inconvenient and not because it's abhorrent, and as long as they keep quiet instead of speaking out and setting an example for their followers, people have every legitimate right to their skepticism/cynicism about the attitudes of the Muslim community at large toward terrorism.
jmadisonbiii: I'd wager that Nidal Hasan did more to harm the Muslim cause than Michelle Bachmann ever could.
Hickory-smoked: jmadisonbiii: I'd wager that Nidal Hasan did more to harm the Muslim cause than Michelle Bachmann ever could.What's "the Muslim cause?" I thought we were talking about basic religious liberties.
The One True TheDavid: Kittypie070: The One True TheDavid: lots of homosexual dogs redactedOh, also I found it interesting that you came into a Muslims AAGH thread with....teh gheys.In case you didn't quite happen to notice, the thread is not about ghey people.Did you notice that in that comment I was replying to a comment mentioning the Methodist's tolerance of gays?Was it your ex-husband that came out or your son?
Tumunga: So, now the Fark libby athiests are now religeous. I get it.
Kittypie070: The One True TheDavid: lots of homosexual dogs redactedOh, also I found it interesting that you came into a Muslims AAGH thread with....teh gheys.In case you didn't quite happen to notice, the thread is not about ghey people.
FlashHarry: farking assholes. i'm no fan of religion - any religion. but i think their hatred is based more in racism than religion. if most muslims were white, i doubt we'd be having this conversation.
Mrbogey: They win because when you portray the anti-sharia side as being anti-Muslim what do you expect?Shariah law has some pretty brutal allowances. I don't understand how people who criticize the crazy things that orthodox Jews do try and concern troll over disdain for the crazy things permitted under Shariah.
thespindrifter: Convert or die, that was, is, and always will be the message of the prophet Mohammed. Even if you run into a group of "decent", moderate/secular Muslims, they will likely allow the leadership to make non-Muslims into second-class citizens, and how many generations before the moderates die off or are forcibly replaced by violent ones?When Muslims outnumber you, you need to be afraid. They kill their own. Therefore they won't hesitate to kill you if it comes down to it. Every country where there has been an "Arab Spring" has now seen the extremists make a power grab. Every. One.In Egypt, a country that has had a decades-long uneasy truce with the tolerated Christian Orthodox minority, the current power-grabbing Ultra-conservatives have taken more power than they agreed to, and have completely written the Christians out of all governance and government protection. It's only a matter of time before the previously thinly veiled hostilities turn into a run for exterminations. It happened in Sudan. It's happening in Iraq. Syria is a freaking free-for all. The asshole Serbs were so tired of the Bosnians shiat that they went Medieval on their asses and tried to kill them all (way to follow the Bible guys!) but after the whole Ottoman oppression, it's easy to see how it came to that, even if their return murders were equally wrong.This will never end until conservative Islam is erased forever.
neilio42: Is this the thread where we say tolerance and acceptance are good qualities and then wish death upon people?
jso2897: What makes you think "it" will end then?
thespindrifter: Convert or die, that was, is, and always will be the message of the prophet Mohammed. Even if you run into a group of "decent", moderate/secular Muslims, they will likely allow the leadership to make non-Muslims into second-class citizens, and how many generations before the moderates die off or are forcibly replaced by violent ones?When Muslims outnumber you, you need to be afraid. They kill their own. Therefore they won't hesitate to kill you if it comes down to it.
thespindrifter: jso2897: What makes you think "it" will end then?I have neighbors who are moderates. They give me hope; they believe in Allah, but are terrible Muslims by strict standards (smoke, occasionally drink, but they try to keep the other laws.) They are fantastic, caring, giving, wonderful people. Because they are "bad" Muslims, they're awesome human beings. It's a shame that it's that way, but I trust people like them to be decent. Just because 5/6 of their family were murdered by "christians" they haven't used that as an excuse to hate me. They don't try to convert me either; they just want to be good people, and who can get mad at anyone for that? As long as they choose to be good citizens and keep their ways to themselves, and I do the same, it's all good. Its the assholes like the power-mad Imams and Jerry Falwell types that stir shiat up and start the problems. If it came down to it, I'd be good with killing a Falwell for every Imam my neighbors would take out, but I know no one could ever agree on how to make that happen, so I'm okay with us the way we are now, as long as they agree to keep it that way. Secular rule of law with religious input, but controlled by common sense absolutes across the board and the current limitations seems to be working for all of us now, so why screw with that? If the Muslims don't like it they can go back to a Sharia country and make changes there if they grow tired of the bullshiat. It worked for us, and it wish it would work for them.
The One True TheDavid: If anybody knows of a mainline Protestant denomination other than the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) that does officially ordain "self-avowed practicing homosexuals" and even marry them to each other please inform me.
jso2897: It's like the "Obammy gonna take yer guns" shiat. Keep the stupid trailer trash worrying about Ahkmed down at the Seven Eleven instead of the ruling class who are farking their assholes bloody as we speak. Keep the stupids thinkin' about anything but who is REALLY screwing them.
thespindrifter: large quantities of Muslims
Lionel Mandrake: Why do Republicans hate America?
meatsack_01: See these Islamic radicals for what they are, animals. Filthy vermin to be taken out to the back 40 and put down. They'd kill you just for not worshiping Mohammad.
WorldCitizen: I'm certainly not a fan of the Muslim Brotherhood as I'm not a fan of any fundamentalist religious movements which which to impose their religion the government and the people through the government. However, it is still to be seen exactly what Morsi and his type will do in Egypt. He has not yet gone all Islamist on his people and country. He still could, but that's not what has happened yet. It's disappointing to see the Islamists doing the writing of the new constitution, but it is yet to be seen how they will govern. Moderate Islamists have been in control of the government in our NATO ally Turkey for some years now, and they haven't yet gone extremist. Again, if I were a Turkish citizen I certainly wouldn't be voting for a religious party (just like I won't vote for Republicans for much the same reason), but they are freely elected, and they haven't been going extremist as of now.
KillerAttackParrot: You do realize that the first time Constantinople fell it was to the Christian 4th Crusade? The ignorance of people never ceases to amaze me.
somedude210: NPR's hourly news reports are pretty unbias. BBC is fairly unbiased. They'll ask questions, but their intent seems to be more about what the story actually is, than trying to make a story out of nothing
Joe Blowme: How is this sad subby? Would anyone here really want to live under sharia? Its like saying you want to live in nazi germany. How can a liberal site like salon and fark not see the eveil that is sharia?
The One True TheDavid: trivial use of my dark powers: Diogenes: FlashHarry: farking assholes. i'm no fan of religion - any religion. but i think their hatred is based more in racism than religion. if most muslims were white, i doubt we'd be having this conversation.I think you're being too forgiving. Race and color aren't helping in the case of Muslims. But there's no limit to their intolerance and outright hate. Crap, alot of them don't even think Methodists are true Protestants.Yeah. Methodists haven't signed on for burning the homogheys yet, so they're suspect.AHEM.From the Book of Discipline of the United Methodist Church:¶ 304.3While persons set apart by the Church for ordained ministry are subject to all the frailties of the human condition and the pressures of society, they are required to maintain the highest standards of holy living in the world. The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. [emp. mine] Therefore self-avowed practicing homosexuals1 are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church.21. "Self-avowed practicing homosexual" is understood to mean that a person openly acknowledges to a bishop, district superintendent, district committee of ordained ministry, board of ordained ministry, or clergy session that the person is a practicing homosexual. See Judicial Council Decisions 702, 708, 722, 725, 764, 844, 984.2. See Judicial Council Decisions 984, 985.This, the fact that they refuse to admit that Jesus of Nazareth was fully human and only adopted by God after his baptism by John on the Jordan River, and their heinous papist practice of "baptising" infants who cannot know what is happening let alone accept it, are why I view them as heretics. And don't give me that Paul nonsense: the so-called Epistles of Paul, the Book of Acts and the "Gospel" of John are spurious later accretions canonized for Roman political reasons. But anyway.As noted above, the UMC is full ...
liam76: Joe Blowme: How is this sad subby? Would anyone here really want to live under sharia? Its like saying you want to live in nazi germany. How can a liberal site like salon and fark not see the eveil that is sharia?Nobody is defending Sharia.The point is that making laws banning it is, best case, redundant because of the first or worst case illegal because of the first (singling out one religion).It is scare mongering.
The One True TheDavid: Ennuipoet:dickfreckle:It's disturbing how the press has dropped the ball in recent years, treating every wingnut as if they're an expert on the chosen topic. Since when have we been presenting "all sides" when that means tacitly suggesting that the 2+2=13 crowd has as valid a point as those who believe 2+2=4?They do it because the press is the now the "Media" and the "Media" is big business. The "Media" lets morans like this have their own soapbox because people watch it. Those of us who think they are evil, idiot farks watch it because we hate them. Those who think like the evil idiot farks watch it because it validates their evil idiot farkery.I don't own a TV or listen to talk radio, nor do I regularly read the mainstream press. Most of the time my sense of what Americans are supposed to "know" and regard as important is supplied by Fark, by the articles linked to and the discussions they provoke. E.g. I've never seen a single Lindsay Lo'an vehicle, nor have I wittingly listened to anything by Baldy Spears or Hannah Montana. So of course I have no idea who Michelle Bachman and Pam Geller are except that "liberal" Farkers dislike them.Too bad for y'all that the vast majority of you repeatedly discount my opinions and even my right to opine because my perspective doesn't fit the "Reality" you get from TV. Oh well. At least it's free. PS: Farking while drunk is fun. But it takes TWO hands.
garron: SirEattonHogg:Interesting. Except the above poster so far, it's like all the fark atheists who were posting pretty loudly in the Charlie Brown Christmas thread suddenly just disappeared. I thought any possible attempt by religion to mix with government is wrong (Sharia would be that situation - the govt would accomodate it as a legal system within our secular legal system) no matter if it's Christian, Muslim, Buddhism, etc. etc.I think that American atheists hate Christians (and maybe Jews) first. Islam hates these people also. So - the enemy of my enemy is my friend. They won't hate on Islam but they sadly don't realize Islamists will kill them for their position once in complete power or they just don't think they could gain that much power. Europe is a good example of how wrong they are and they still don't see it.
Joe Blowme: liam76: Joe Blowme: How is this sad subby? Would anyone here really want to live under sharia? Its like saying you want to live in nazi germany. How can a liberal site like salon and fark not see the eveil that is sharia?Nobody is defending Sharia.The point is that making laws banning it is, best case, redundant because of the first or worst case illegal because of the first (singling out one religion).It is scare mongering.Thats like saying rattle snakes are dangerous and dont go near them is scaremongering? I guess we have a different opinion of what scaremongering is. If it is for something real, i dont have a problem with being told it is dangerous. Like someone warning me about the KKK or NAMBLA."Tolerance of evil is a crime"
namatad: neilio42: Is this the thread where we say tolerance and acceptance are good qualities and then wish death upon people?DEATH TO ALL INTOLERANT PEOPLE !!@@!#!@#!@#
The One True TheDavid: COMALite J: The One True TheDavid: trivial use of my dark powers: Diogenes: FlashHarry: ...This, the fact that they refuse to admit that Jesus of Nazareth was fully human and only adopted by God after his baptism by John on the Jordan River, and their heinous papist practice of "baptising" infants who cannot know what is happening let alone accept it, are why I view them as heretics. And don't give me that Paul nonsense: the so-called Epistles of Paul, the Book of Acts and the "Gospel" of John are spurious later accretions canonized for Roman political reasons....What about the Gospel of Luke, written by the author of the Book of Acts?Prove it. And you do know there's more than one Paul, right?The synoptic gospels are really just versions redactions of the long-vanished Gospel of the Hebrews, with a bit of inevitable local flavor.This is in keeping with the pro-Roman church fathers' decision to view earlier Judaizing gospels as noncanonical or heretical, by which they meant they encouraged doctrines that too closely resembled the Judaism that the Church was adamantly and vociferously declaring its difference from. The Jewish faith could never be the ideological glue of of a pagan Empire, unlike its Hejazi offspring.
The Gospel According to SaintLUKECHAPTER 1MANY have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled¹ among us,2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.⋮CHAPTER 24⋮50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them.51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.The ACTSof the ApostlesCHAPTER 1IN my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen.
umad: Is this the thread where we exempt muslims from being treated like the ignorant scum religious people are? Fark the muslims. Fark the Christians. They are both vile. I don't understand why so many of you rush to defend only one of the groups when they are both the same.
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