slayer199: Marcus Aurelius: An industrialized nation's government needs about 20% of GDP to function well, and if I am not mistaken we're well below that. Taxation is also at near historic lows.Less government spending isn't going to educate our population or fix our crumbling infrastructure.Yes, and we're currently at 40% of GDP.http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/include/us_total_spending_20c.png
Bontesla: I really hate how disingenuous the Republicans are. Their disingenuty creates unpleasant thoughts in my head.We balanced the budget under Clinton and Bush Jr. Spent our surplus into oblivion. Now the Republicans are stamping their feet pouting about social spending the Democrats are pushing for. Ffs. Act like a grown ass adult.
tallguywithglasseson: You just have to accept that 90% of libertarian arguments are prefaced with them being ordained with some sort of special vision that everyone else lacks.
Dusk-You-n-Me: We already have a more severely redistributive taxation system than EuropeTrue, but Europe's spending is also progressive. Imagine if the average American middle class family paid zero or near zero for healthcare. Imagine if the average middle class family paid zero or near zero for college tuition. Imagine all that money back into their pockets, and back into our economy driving up aggregate demand.
slayer199: That's the thing NEITHER side is talking about. Substantial reduction of spending. The Dems don't want to give up their social programs and the Republicans don't want to scale back on the military, Homeland Security or the War on Drugs.
doyner: vpb: doyner: vernonFL: We've spent $4 trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan. Plus thousands killed and tens of thousands injured.FreedomTM isn't a freebie.Yes, we would all be speaking Arabic now if we hadn't invaded Iraq.Exactly. And I feel a Farsi coming on....
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: Mitt Romney pays half of what I pay. Maybe taxing that farker at my rate won't balance the budget, but it would be a start.I don't know for a fact. But I'm going to make a crazy guess and say Romney pays a hell of a lot more money than you do.
Il Douchey: ...the expiry of the deferment of the implementation of the adjustment of the correction of the extension of the reduction to the proposed increase of the Alternative Minimum Growth Sustainability Reduction Rate.Mark Steyn, you magnificent bastard
doyner: vernonFL: We've spent $4 trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan. Plus thousands killed and tens of thousands injured.FreedomTM isn't a freebie.
slayer199: Again, the populace gets sidelined by argument of the rich paying their fair share rather than the real problem. The farking government spends too damn much money. And it's not a Republican or Democrat issue...it's a U.S. Government issue as BOTH sides are to blame./facepalmYou can raise taxes to 90% on everyone above $100k and it's not going to do a damn thing unless BOTH sides can significantly cut spending. Budgets, how do they work?
CPennypacker: Everyone wants freebies. The issue is some people only think the freebies that they get are valid regardless of how much the other ones may be needed or useful.
Koggie: Yeah, those free wars were awesome. Please sir, may I have another?
Dancin_In_Anson: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I don't know for a fact. But I'm going to make a crazy guess and say Romney pays a hell of a lot more money than you do.Forget it, he's rolling.
Captain_Sunshine: Taxes need to go up for everybody, and stay there for a while.
slayer199: tallguywithglasseson: You just have to accept that 90% of libertarian arguments are prefaced with them being ordained with some sort of special vision that everyone else lacks.That's pretty much true because in a bi-partisan world there isn't a third way that's valid. If you're a True Believer in the one of the two parties you tend to see the world as "My party is right and the other party is wrong, and anything else is dumb." The way Democrats look at libertarianism is "Lol, Somalia.' They way Republicans look at libertarians is "Godless heathens pushing drugs and hookers." Both views are caricatures of libertarianism.I'm pragmatic enough to realize that taxes need to be raised...but I also believe the government wastes a TON of money and we're not going to get out of it without significant spending cuts. I'm not talking about the traditional way government talks about cutting spending either (which is to say, they won't increase the budgets of departments). I'm talking about actually cutting the budgets and eliminating departments altogether (lets start with DHS). If you understand how the government spends money, there's no incentive for them to be efficient. In other words, if you run an efficient department and actually save money that means the following year you get less money (well, they obviously don't need as much).Keep flag-waving for your party...right off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings.
Trivia Jockey: I have a suspicion that regardless of the outcome of this mess, the GOP as we know it is going to fold.
Smeggy Smurf: Koggie: Yeah, those free wars were awesome. Please sir, may I have another?The way Fartbongo is going we'll have another 20 of them by this time next year.
mksmith: "THEIR social programs"? Republicans get no benefits from Social Security, Medicare, college loans, food stamps, or disaster relief -- is that what you're saying? Because I have an unemployed, fundamentalist, Obama-hating sister-in-law who was delighted to get in line for food stamps when she qualified following the most recent hurricane.
Trivia Jockey: Shockingly (or not), history and economic theory demonstrates you can do this and still have a prosperous economy.
ToxicMunkee: Fine. Let's end all the "entitlement programs" and let people f*cking die. I'm sick of all of this stupid bullish*t. Who needs Death Panels when all we have to do is let people starve?America. F*ck yeah.
Captain_Sunshine: Didn't someone actually play around with the numbers a couple of years ago and estimate the peak of that curve at around a 70% tax rate for the top earners?
Captain_Sunshine: Trivia Jockey: Shockingly (or not), history and economic theory demonstrates you can do this and still have a prosperous economy.Absolutely. The idea that none of these conservatives will even entertain the idea that we are still on the left side of their oh-so-descriptive Laffer Curve is extremely dishonest. It's their treatment of supply-side economics as religion showing through.Didn't someone actually play around with the numbers a couple of years ago and estimate the peak of that curve at around a 70% tax rate for the top earners? I seem to remember that, but I can't find it (and I have to get back to work).
Cythraul: Koggie: Yeah, those free wars were awesome. Please sir, may I have another?"I'd like Two Unpaid Wars, please. Oh, and a side of Unregulated Banking Industry. That many calories, really? Okay, just shave off a few with a Frank / Dodd salad. Yeah, go ahead and super-size it. Thanks!"
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