Ennuipoet: Has become? Joseph the country was founded by rich, white, slave holding aristocrats who restricted suffrage to their class. It was always a myth. The economic elite have always given up just enough change to keep them from being hauled to an execution site in a cart.
NewportBarGuy: Bullsh*t! With luck, determination, and some intelligence you have the best chance to make something of yourself in this country than anywhere else.3 years ago I was making just a few bucks more than minimum wage. Now I have an awesome job, got promoted 3 times and have more money than I ever had in my life and the future looks nothing but bright. I did all this and all I have is a sh*tty associates degree. Working on a Bachelor's (still) but I'll get that eventually.The American Dream is still alive and well. Just scale it back a bit. I can't emphasize luck enough, though. Luck plays a HUGE part in life. Call it fate or whatever, but that sh*t is real. It's that combined with showing up and giving everything you've got.I respect Joe, but he's wrong. This is still an amazing country filled with amazing people capable of awesome things. Yes, the economy is tough right now. We all know that. We've been through it before. We'll come out the other side and we'll move on as we always have.
Ennuipoet: Joseph the country was founded by rich, white, slave holding aristocrats who restricted suffrage to their class.
SouthParkCon: Because capitalism is the root of all evil....
Crazy Lee: Any education system in this country that isn't pressing the cause of autodidacticism (particularly in middle/HS) is a fraud. My grandparents spent serious school time practicing to perfect an ornate orthography (the appearance of their correspondence is `art' the content? shopping lists...). Currently? Hitting some marks on this or that standardized test. Being `fed' and regurgitating and forgetting isn't any more of a hedge against stupidity and early obsolescence, than was exquisite penmanship. How did the man put it? `luck is the residue of design' and, being stamped to particular `design' specs, instead of doing the drilling and machining oneself, isn't at all conducive to encouraging luck to ride along on one's shoulder.I was that weird little shiat that broke out in a cold sweat when Gregory Peck (as Captain Ahab) gave `the speech', i.e., "...the little lower layer.." I knew exactly what was meant. To paraphrase Blake `you never know enough, until you know more than enough' (and that ain't gonna happen). Still, after all this time, piling it on and in - not too particular as to subject, either; just never know when (not if) a selective memory dump of the wetware will come in handy (hasn't failed to, yet)./fark dreaming, hit the `books' (yeah, off lawn, now) and never stop//not meant to address the systemic inadequacy of the current parade as it passes - just this farker's never having given a shiat about marching along in it (whether living in a car or working for Ashton-Tate)
fatassbastard: There's a house on the way to my friend's parents' place where we have our jam space. Big, brand new place on 5 acres. Guy's a Mexican immigrant who eventually started his own landscaping company, and now has this place to raise his family in.How is that not the farking American Dream?
NewportBarGuy: We have thought it out. We know the way forward. What we need is for people to stop giving a sh*t which side proposes or passes something to help all of us by helping the economy.
neongoats: I'm not sure where I was going with this, other than to sink home te point that this invented in the 50s "American Dream" crap has always only really applied to the people who already were mostly there from the start.
Forbidden Doughnut: Fano: Gordon Sinclair offers a rebuttalThat speech is from 1973....
Richard Freckle: No Carlin reference yet, I am disappoint.go back to sleep
SpaceyCat: The "American Dream" has been to own a house with a nice yard, have a "regular" family with a couple of kids, and a car or two. That dream was pretty much killed when Regan took office, but the decline started in the 60s. In order to afford a house with ONE kid, two adults need to be working full time jobs. Middle class incomes have pretty much stayed flat and the only reason they haven't tanked is because women started taking more jobs. Inflation has taken out most of the gains of wage increases.Since the economy has transformed into more service driven from a construction/manufacturing driven economy, the only thing keeping it afloat are people who spend money, aka the middle class. With less money being available to spend, the economy shrinks, jobs are lost, and a downward spiral develops. The so called "job creators" aren't going to increase their production unless there is demand to support it. Those who support it don't have any money to buy. The cycle continues. And it sucks.
Lando Lincoln: Well, I don't know about that. The American Dream is still alive, but it's getting really difficult to achieve it if you're not already born three quarters of the way there.
intelligent comment below: So what happens if your wife develops cancer, her insurance drops her... then what?
Lagaidh: I know I'm an atypical anecdote... but it does happen here and there. And I'm not talking about rags to riches... just rags to comfy middle class.
tallen702: Now, before the accusations of me being the exception to the rule. I live near DC, my wife and I make what would be considered very, very modest incomes for the DC Metro area
sethen320: Coelacanth: Sometimes I think the only reason I was born in this country was to punish me for something awful I did in a previous life.Leave.
Poo_Fight: I know, RIGHT!?
NewportBarGuy: 3 years ago I was making just a few bucks more than minimum wage. Now I have an awesome job, got promoted 3 times and have more money than I ever had in my life and the future looks nothing but bright.
intelligent comment below: Poo_Fight: Whatever, I'm going to throw another vote his way in the blind hope that doing MORE of what HASN'T WORKED will miraculously correct everything just because of his skin color.What hasn't worked? Go into details.
Fano: It's hard to update equipment.
NewportBarGuy: It's the main reason we get so many immigrants. Not for the welfare, because they believe they can make it here.
WhyteRaven74: neongoats: It's been half a century since we had nearly 100% employment.We've never had that. Indeed the closest we ever got was just before the end of WW2, for about six months. After that unemployment was anywhere between 4 and 7%. And the late 90s saw unemployment that was better than most of the 50s.We will never, ever, ever, EVER see as prosperous a time again.Your causes are false, and that statement is utter horseshiat, we could see it again, we just have to change how think about things.
fusillade762: [d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net image 500x342]/got nuthin'
WhyteRaven74: we just have to change how think about things.
NewportBarGuy: You can still make it here. I
Man On Pink Corner: It must drive people like Stiglitz apeshiat when someone actually does make something of themselves in this country.
sno man: Ennuipoet: Has become? Joseph the country was founded by rich, white, slave holding aristocrats who restricted suffrage to their class. It was always a myth. The economic elite have always given up just enough change to keep them from being hauled to an execution site in a cart.No the dream wasn't to be that guy. The dream was the nice house, with a hot wife, 2 kids and a dog playing in the back yard, two shiny cars in the driveway, and the mortgage payed off before the kids were in college... And for maybe two generations it was possible... not likely, but possible.
NewportBarGuy: unyon: Income elasticity in the US now falls near the bottom of industrialized nations.Combine the population of the countries that "beat" us on that chart. Still not buying it. You can still make it here. It's the main reason we get so many immigrants. Not for the welfare, because they believe they can make it here.omnibus_necanda_sunt: 4/10Not even trolling.WorldCitizen: Statistics say you are wrong. You have a greater chance of moving up in the wealth ladder in the other developed democracies than you do in the United States. You can keep chanting "USA#1" all you want, but simply screaming it louder and louder does not make it true. We pride ourselves on having greater economic/social mobility than places like Europe, but it's not true anymore.Yeah, well... They can have their economic austerity. I'll stand by my post.
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