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(Google) NewsFlash Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people still allowed to vote in PA   ( google.com) divider line
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    More: NewsFlash, voter ID, dead people, League of Women Voters, provisional ballots, illegal immigrants, Pennsylvania Republicans, swing states, Tom Corbett  
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13332 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2012 at 11:12 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Blowmonkey
2012-10-02 11:48:46 AM  
How can you honestly, in good faith support these voter ID laws. The republicans have all but come out and explicitly stated this is to disenfranchise those who would vote against them.
 
ItchyMcDoogle
2012-10-02 11:48:49 AM  
PROTIP: Next time try not to crow about how the law is there to get your guy elected.
Oh and try to stop acting like greedy noncaring douchebags too..Just a thought.
Florida your next
 
qorkfiend
2012-10-02 11:48:53 AM  

I_C_Weener: Biff_Steel: Can't we just dip our fingers in ink and do away with these shenanigans?


I would prefer every voter poll have an open bar.  If you vote, you get free drinks the rest of the day.  No one is going to then take the time to go poll to poll and keep voting.  Interferes with drinking time.


And in other news, turnout is at a record 96%! Experts credit the state's new "open poll, open bar" policy.
 
I_C_Weener [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:48:55 AM  

Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: But its inconvenient. And so are going to the polls. I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote. Its unconscionable.

Can you get a voter ID at the same location at the same hours? No? You have to go across town and wait in a 6 hour line for a window that's only open for two hours on a Thursday, and if you're not in the front of the line, you have to come back the next week? You mean that one thing may be convenient and the other may not? Heavens!



Sounds like you guys need to think ahead.  Lots of BMVs.  Do you see long lines for driver's licenses that require a 6 hour line?  Do it there...same neighborhood, theoretically. 
 
People who complain about getting a free ID, aren't invested enough in the process.  Not a poll tax.  Just an ID.  A free one.  Make it avaliable.   People cry fraud all the time.  Eliminate the small amount of fraud and the large cry by doing something simple that most people manage without even thinking about it. 
 
Getting an ID is not the travail everyone claims it is.
 
HotWingConspiracy
2012-10-02 11:48:55 AM  

Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?


I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.


Whoa buddy, why should they even get a ballot if they can't show ID, amirite?
 
Rwa2play [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:48:58 AM  

Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?


Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?


I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.


Evasion noted.
 
Aarontology [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:49:24 AM  
Almost 250 posts into this thread, and there hasn't been a single thing posted demonstrating voter fraud that would have been prevented by requiring someone to present an ID at the polls.
 
King Something
2012-10-02 11:49:31 AM  

OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?


The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.
 
justtray
2012-10-02 11:49:42 AM  

Marine1: Disposable Rob: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

I liked how you list things that only people with money do. You do have the sense to realize that poverty is a major disadvantage, though. Some of us try to focus on that, but then Republicans complain that poor people own refrigerators and get government cell phones.

Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.


An ID isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes, which was already told to you. Occasionally you have to prove your age, but that's just the discretion of the shop owner.

You're reaching, and simultaneously pretending like you aren't bias. Just go the fark away moron. You've been shot down so many times in here you should be embarrassed for yourself.
 
Dusk-You-n-Me [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:49:53 AM  

what_now: I'm a polling place worker. I am awesome.


I know you are, and I remember you saying how most of your polling place coworkers are on the elderly side of life, which is consistent with every voting experience I've had.

We're supposed to trust them with properly checking IDs with no training whatsoever?

All to fix a problem that does not exist in any significant way.
 
2wolves
2012-10-02 11:50:02 AM  
Leeds:

So you approve of fixing a problem that doesn't exist and growing government in the process.

Please tell me your degree is in Liberal Arts.
 
olddinosaur
2012-10-02 11:50:11 AM  

someonelse: olddinosaur: There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

citation needed


Go to google and key in "illegal immigrant voting," and you will find about 8.5 million of these citation thingies you love so well.

RTFP, doofus.
 
bhcompy [TotalFark] [BareFark]
2012-10-02 11:50:16 AM  

Theaetetus: bhcompy: Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

It means you have to schedule time off from work to travel to and wait around at whatever office or registry is issuing those IDs, and while that may certainly be possible, the closer to a minimum wage job you have, the stricter the supervisor tends to be about schedules. So, maybe it takes a month or two to schedule that time off. No problem... you'll get your ID in December.
... too late.

That's why it's unreasonable to push through a new voter ID requirement a month before a national election, while it's perfectly reasonable for the judge to say "fine, this law takes effect starting next year. People will have almost two years before the next national election to get their ID, rather than four weeks."

The only people who could possibly have a problem with this are those who were explicitly relying on this to unfairly affect the outcome of this election. In other words, complaining about it means that you're in favor of disenfranchising people.


That is a very fair argument, and I have no problem with that.

Disposable Rob: State IDs usually cost money which violates the 24th amendment forbidding poll taxes. Interestingly enough, adjusting for inflation, poll taxes were only about $18 in today's dollars. So there was a time that even Republicans were concerned enough about the poor having to shell out $18 in order to vote that it became an amendemnt.


Okay, so the argument is an indirect cost from a public entity violates the 24th amendment. I have to take a public bus to the polling place, thus I have to pay money to vote. Poll tax. I have a car and I have to have gas to get to the polling place. That gas has state and federal taxes. Poll tax. I have a car and I have to take a public toll road to get to the polling place. Poll tax.

I understand the argument, but I don't really agree with it because it's too broad. And it's not like PA has exorbitant fees on IDs. $13.50 without considering any low income/elderly relief, which I'm sure exists(for example, in California, seniors get IDs free and those on public support have a 75% reduced fee). I guess realistically it's not going to be a huge problem as sooner or later we're getting RFID chips implanted at birth.
 
Giltric
2012-10-02 11:50:23 AM  

Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.


Tax cheats?
 
Jairzinho
2012-10-02 11:50:37 AM  

olddinosaur: There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.


Your ability to somehow tell who are illegals and which ones of those vote is impressive. You do dead people too?
 
Lumbar Puncture
2012-10-02 11:50:40 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Marine1: Opening a line of credit

You forgot buying stocks and bonds.
And booking that yacht on the French Riveria.


He also forgot buying sudafed or an M rated video game at Target. You also need one to sell items to a pawn shop, and usually have to present it if trying to ride public transit (if elderly or disabled) in order to get a reduced fare.
 
skullkrusher
2012-10-02 11:51:09 AM  
nice troll subs
 
dywed88
2012-10-02 11:51:37 AM  

hetheeme: "Simpson ordered the state not to enforce the photo ID requirement in this year's presidential election but will allow it to go into full effect next year."

Good to know that they can commit fraud just long enough to let Obama win the state one last time.

Nothing wring with the law in general, apparently, just that it would hurt the Obama administration.


There is nothing wrong with the law once it is properly implemented and there is time to ensure that every eligible voter has a reasonable opportunity to get an ID card at negligible cost.
I would advocate laws that voting eligibility, requirements, procedures, etc only come into effect for the next election cycle, so laws signed now come into effect for the 2014 mid-term election, whereas laws signed on November 8, 2012 (after the current election) come into effect for the 2016 general election. In addition, if the law is under legal challenge (though the 2-4 year period should allow most to be cleared up) within 6 months of an election are not put into effect for that election. Of course you need rules about when a law can be challenged and such to prevent gaming the system (say, if the legal challenge is not initially made within 3 months of the law being signed or and subsequent court decision that brings rise to the challenge).

AntiNerd: Of course people without what the local official considers "valid ID" will still have to cast a provisional ballot


FTA: Election workers will still be allowed to ask voters for a valid photo ID, but people without it can vote on a regular voting machine in the polling place and would not have to cast a provisional ballot or prove their identity to election officials after the election.

Not according to the article. However, an issue may be poll workers and voters not knowing the actual law on November 7, but each party should have observers to make sure it is properly enforced..
 
Jackson Herring
2012-10-02 11:51:37 AM  

what_now: Jackson Herring: Well *I* certainly don't know anyone without photo ID, therefore they do not exist.

You know me. There was a period in my life when I didn't have a valid ID. My license was expired for 6 months before I got a "Non Driver ID" and that was only because I wanted to buy booze.


That was the joke you see.
 
Marine1
2012-10-02 11:51:41 AM  

Great_Milenko: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving (this applies to urban poor)
Purchasing a firearm (only if you buy it from a gun shop or bought it in the last decade or so)
Carrying a firearm (only if you bother to get a concealed carry permit)
Cashing a check (no idea how check cashing stores work, but an ID that works there might not work at the polls)
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it) - irrelevant for PA
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID?

They're called poor people. I've taken the liberty of striking out the activities that poor people don't do, and bolding the ones where you're just plain wrong, along with a few notes here and there.


You know, I live in central Missouri, where it's more or less Columbia and a ton of small towns filled with working-class or lower populations. I grew up in a major metropolitan area with plenty of disadvantaged people. I worked at a bank as a teller as a high school job. I know people, I know their financial habits, probably better than you do. I know you don't like facts, but don't try to can poor people as a bunch of people who do nothing but work and then go off to live in some strange land that they don't rent or own to not drink any alcohol or consume any tobacco.
 
HotWingConspiracy
2012-10-02 11:51:42 AM  

snocone: HotWingConspiracy: Giltric: HotWingConspiracy: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.

How did you cash a check?

I didn't.

What span of 6 years was it?

18 - 24

Crap. Here is a CSB and reality.
Bought a new phone yesterday at ITT store. Galaxy S III. Sweet.
They don't take checks.
Their credit card processor does not take debit cards.
OK, good ol'e Benjamins.
They don't keep change.

ID or no ID, you have to carry three forms of payment just to get by.
/ad we are all up in the twisties becaue of ID?


No, it sound like you need 3 forms of payment to buy a new phone from that specific vendor.

Owning an S3 isn't "just getting by".
 
gilgigamesh
2012-10-02 11:51:53 AM  

Marine1: Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.


You don't necessarily need ID to rent an apartment, purchase tobacco, you can deposit checks without ID, and lots of inner city people never drive.

Again: your strained incredulity aside, the fact is there are a half a million people without the required picture ID in Philly alone.

I expect you've never seen an elephant in the wild either. Does that mean they don't exist?
 
Great_Milenko
2012-10-02 11:51:56 AM  

ringersol: Marine1: "I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?"

That's just the thing. The law requires a subset of IDs. Keep in mind the legalese.


Good point. Not sure if it was PA or somewhere else, but a college issued student ID was not valid, while a freakin' NRA membership card was.
 
lemurs [BareFark]
2012-10-02 11:52:07 AM  
In practice, actual voter fraud (which is not the same thing as voter registration fraud) is extremely rare. And when it does occur, the typical causes are things like felons voting when they shouldn't, which wouldn't be stopped by voter ID laws.

So just like the "top state Republican lawmaker" in TFA alludes to, the purpose of voter ID laws is not to stop voting fraud.
 
Leeds
2012-10-02 11:52:09 AM  

DeusMeh: Leeds: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.

From the government page linked just above:
Since the Pennsylvania Voter ID law was enacted in March, PennDOT has been working closely with the Department of State to ensure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain photo identification. If you don't possess photo identification for voting purposes, you will be able to obtain a new Department of State voter identification card for free by visiting a PennDOT Driver License Center.

How can people in this thread still be pretending that the normal $12 for a 4 year drivers license still applies here? That $3 a year fee is not even applicable, as these ID's are FREE.

// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats

thats all well and good, but dude...not nearly enough time has been allowed to actually inform the public (particularly those who need this).


I hear your argument, but how much time would be appropriate? It's already been 7 months since the ID's became free and it's on the news every single night. If someone literally has no id and they wait close to 250 days before accepting a free ID, who is to blame? I reject the notion that such a person exists.
 
Aarontology [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:52:17 AM  

olddinosaur: someonelse: olddinosaur: There are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the USA, and as near as I can tell, most of them vote.

citation needed

Go to google and key in "illegal immigrant voting," and you will find about 8.5 million of these citation thingies you love so well.

RTFP, doofus.


A google search for "olddinosaur ate my pudding" brings up over a million results.

Clearly, this is proof you ate my pudding.
 
ginko
2012-10-02 11:52:21 AM  
Not sure how it is elsewhere, but in MI we have to vote at our registered prescinct, give our name which they check off the list, and starting at the last election show an ID. (Not sure if picture was manditory but I used my DL) Even if they just use the registration list, you say your name and you get checked off, no fraud. How hard is it to have a list? Forcing a picture ID 1 month before elections was sucky too, lawmakers.

/let the people vote, get these idiots out of office. Citizens need to plan ahead for next year. Control your govenment.
 
2wolves
2012-10-02 11:52:24 AM  

Giltric: Aarontology: Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?

The answer to both: Under the table jobs that pay straight cash.

They're pretty common.

Tax cheats?


Off shore accounts?
 
5monkeys
2012-10-02 11:52:26 AM  

vpb: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

Driving
Purchasing a firearm
Carrying a firearm
Cashing a check
Opening a bank account
Using a debit or credit card
Opening a line of credit
Boarding a commercial flight
Going to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)
Getting a passport
Buying tobacco
Buying alcohol
Buying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)
Going over the border into Canada or Mexico
Transferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)
Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)
Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

Yes, poor people transfer large amounts of money and travel to foreign countries all the time.
I can see that Republican grasp on reality is as loose as ever.


Poor cash checks, buy booze or cigarettes, live places, or have bank accounts. I am not rich, not by a mile, but i have an id. You need one in today's world.

/poor and have an id since i turned 18
 
Giltric
2012-10-02 11:52:30 AM  

snocone: HotWingConspiracy: Giltric: HotWingConspiracy: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.

How did you cash a check?

I didn't.

What span of 6 years was it?

18 - 24

Crap. Here is a CSB and reality.
Bought a new phone yesterday at ITT store. Galaxy S III. Sweet.
They don't take checks.
Their credit card processor does not take debit cards.
OK, good ol'e Benjamins.
They don't keep change.

ID or no ID, you have to carry three forms of payment just to get by.
/ad we are all up in the twisties becaue of ID?


How do you get a credit or debit card without ID?
 
Rwa2play [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:52:31 AM  

Aarontology: Almost 250 posts into this thread, and there hasn't been a single thing posted demonstrating voter fraud that would have been prevented by requiring someone to present an ID at the polls.


You shouldn't be surprised.
 
HotIgneous Intruder
2012-10-02 11:52:31 AM  

DeusMeh: thats all well and good, but dude...not nearly enough time has been allowed to actually inform the public (particularly those who need this).


And time and spreading the word = money, taxpayer money.
Ergo, not free.
Also, even if the state pays, which means the taxpayers pay, it's not free because taxpayers are paying for their own IDs.

Kinda circular, but that's life in retard world.
 
ChipNASA
2012-10-02 11:52:32 AM  

Blowmonkey: How can you honestly, in good faith support these voter ID laws. The republicans have all but come out and explicitly stated this is to disenfranchise those who would vote against them.



troll.meView Full Size


/should be good for a few.
 
DarwiOdrade [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:52:43 AM  

Giltric: How do you get a job without proper ID? How do you cash the check the job gives you without ID?


Sample proper ID for an I-9: Day care or nursery school record + Social Security card

Neither of those is a proper photo ID for the purposes of voting. Your hair is a bird.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:53:04 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: slykens1: qorkfiend: Oh, ok. Since you can't think of any way it could happen, it must be impossible.

Instead of a moronic snarky reply, please explain some scenarios where a competent person can manage to get through four years of life without needing ID, especially considering all the people and places that request ID.

I did it for 6. Wasn't really difficult.


I don't think I have used a photo ID for anything in the past five years. I opened a bank account a year ago, but other than that, the last time was when I bought a car six years ago. I carry a driver's license with me, but that was the last time I had to show it to anyone.

It's kind of beside the point anyway. There are probably more people who don't have ID than people who can't read English and literacy tests were found to be un-constitutional.
 
dustygrimp
2012-10-02 11:53:13 AM  

bhcompy: I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?


The poor may not have an ID because they don't need one. No car, no plans to travel outside the country. There may also be a fee to get an ID card, one which the poor can't afford.

hetheeme: Gotta love the legalization of voter fraud.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.


Because the .00004% of votes cast that were proven fraudulent over the last 4 years is a big problem.

AntiNerd: Of course people without what the local official considers "valid ID" will still have to cast a provisional ballot. This will create a lot of uncertainty and confusion which the Republicans are still experts at exploiting. Look for the election to end up in court at the very least.

One thing about it that I found interesting is to see how the vote goes down among provisional ballots. That will settle once and for all just who it is that voter ID laws disenfranchise.


The story I read said that the provisional ballots are not necessary. They vote at a regular booth.
 
Delay
2012-10-02 11:53:33 AM  
This was such an obvious attempt to disenfranchise Democratic voters it's not even funny. Motivation is the key to understanding these controversial laws. On 6/23/12, Pennsylvania Speaker of the House Mike Turzai gave us the proverbial smoking gun when he said that Pennsylvania's new voter ID law would "allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."

Why would he say that? Because ID laws are not evenly enforced. I go weeks without showing a photo ID, even when one is legally required because I fit a particular demographic. The only time I am required to show a photo ID is at the air-port. The Pennsylvania law is more strict than TSA screening. If your passport or driver's license lists you as John Farkinson Doe and the Pennsylvania voter list has you down as John F. Doe or (by clerical mistake) John Farkenson Doe, no voting for you.

AFP (Americans for Prosperity) and ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) have been funding these crappy laws. It's good this Republican judge realized any other decision would have been overturned by the state supreme court.
 
keylock71
2012-10-02 11:53:34 AM  
When the wife and I were living in Dublin in the 90s... a Council official knocked on our door looking to sign us up for an upcoming election. I told him we weren't Irish citizens or even legal residents.

He told us it didn't matter. If you lived in the country, you had the right to vote in elections.

Never verified that was true, but it sure sounds a lot more democratic and sensible than many of the restrictive laws we have in this country...
 
xaratherus
2012-10-02 11:53:39 AM  
We should retroactively enforce voter ID laws, and declare all elections prior to 2016 null and void.

I mean, if it's such a problem now, then it could have been a problem the entire time, all the way back to Washington (can't count John Hanson, he was president under the Articles, not the Constitution).

So since it's such a huge problem, let's reset everything back to 1788 and start over, just to be safe.

// On a more realistic note, I personally support voter ID laws, but I do have problems with the specific methods of implementation and the timing. The fact that Pennsylvania offers a free ID in conjunction with the law only resolves one of the issues.

I believe that any change that potentially impacts voting in a major federal election through disenfranchisement should only be allowed in the two years immediately following the last federal election; that includes implementation of voter ID laws and redistricting.
 
rufus-t-firefly
2012-10-02 11:53:41 AM  

ChipNASA: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x245]

Don't ya'all fret none....its still gonna be RED.


Except for the areas where 73% of Pennsylvanians live, of course.

Pennsylvania has 48 rural counties and 19 urban counties. In 2010, nearly 3.5 million residents, or 27 percent of the state's 12.7 million residents, lived in a rural county.

Link
 
Theaetetus
2012-10-02 11:53:49 AM  

I_C_Weener: Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: But its inconvenient. And so are going to the polls. I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote. Its unconscionable.

Can you get a voter ID at the same location at the same hours? No? You have to go across town and wait in a 6 hour line for a window that's only open for two hours on a Thursday, and if you're not in the front of the line, you have to come back the next week? You mean that one thing may be convenient and the other may not? Heavens!


Sounds like you guys need to think ahead.  Lots of BMVs.  Do you see long lines for driver's licenses that require a 6 hour line?


Uh, yes. Maybe you live someplace with not many people.

People who complain about getting a free ID, aren't invested enough in the process.  Not a poll tax.  Just an ID.  A free one.  Make it avaliable.   People cry fraud all the time.  Eliminate the small amount of fraud and the large cry by doing something simple that most people manage without even thinking about it. 
 
Getting an ID is not the travail everyone claims it is.

1) Yes, it is, because it's not 'made available'. You say that it should be done at the BMVs... Okay, maybe that's a decent proposal (it's not, for the reason noted above), but that's not currently where you get your voter ID. So, saying, "well, we could make it convenient," doesn't change the fact that you haven't actually done that yet.

2) If you were really concerned about fraud, then you'd have no problem with having this requirement start next year, since fraud will exist regardless. The only reason to slam it through in the next month is because you want to disenfranchise people in this election.
 
Aarontology [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:53:54 AM  

Rwa2play: Aarontology: Almost 250 posts into this thread, and there hasn't been a single thing posted demonstrating voter fraud that would have been prevented by requiring someone to present an ID at the polls.

You shouldn't be surprised.


Oh, I'm not surprised.
 
sugardave
2012-10-02 11:53:56 AM  

gilgigamesh: Marine1: Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.

You don't necessarily need ID to rent an apartment, purchase tobacco, you can deposit checks without ID, and lots of inner city people never drive.

Again: your strained incredulity aside, the fact is there are a half a million people without the required picture ID in Philly alone.

I expect you've never seen an elephant in the wild either. Does that mean they don't exist?


I'd have gone with narwhal.
 
gilgigamesh
2012-10-02 11:54:00 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: MonkeyAngst: Numerous people, in interviews, articles, blog posts, and here in this very thread, have pointed out what is wrong with the law in general. It is that it requires a state-issued ID, which is not free, which means that a fee must be paid in order to vote, which is specifically outlawed by the Constitution.

And yet, numerous states require photo ID to vote.


How many of those states threw the requirement up at the last minute with the stated intention to deliver the state to their preferred presidential candidate?
 
what_now [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:54:02 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: I'm a polling place worker. I am awesome.

I know you are, and I remember you saying how most of your polling place coworkers are on the elderly side of life, which is consistent with every voting experience I've had.

We're supposed to trust them with properly checking IDs with no training whatsoever?

All to fix a problem that does not exist in any significant way.


Well, you still need to show ID now (or a current utility bill) if you aren't on the active voting rolls.

When the little old lady at the front can't find your name, she sends you to the little old ladies at the back who HAVE had training on this.

Of course, if you had to train ALL the little old ladies (and me) it would be a hell of a lot more expensive. There are about 8 poll workers at every precinct, and usually only two of them are "captains", meaning they have more training and more responsibility.

And yes, I'm usually 30 years younger than anyone else there.
 
iheartscotch
2012-10-02 11:54:05 AM  

sdd2000: iheartscotch: The actual issue is people that live in two states. New York and Florida for example. It is POSSIBLE that a snow bird could POTENTIALLY vote in both states. I know, I know; it's a bit of a stretch; but that doesn't change the fact that it could happen.

/ I know; I'm worse than hitler

And how does this law stop this? Also, what percent of voting population could that apply to, is it even as high as .01% ?


Never said it did; like I said, states should compare voter rolls and investigate duplicates.

I also said; Ids are required for a lot of important things. Why not voting? Would you be in favor of a blood scan to prove identity instead of a ID card? It's not like a persons' blood type suddenly changes.

/ .01 of 300,000,000 is 3,000,000; 300 million is the population of the United States
 
HotIgneous Intruder
2012-10-02 11:54:07 AM  

Rwa2play: Aarontology: Almost 250 posts into this thread, and there hasn't been a single thing posted demonstrating voter fraud that would have been prevented by requiring someone to present an ID at the polls.

You shouldn't be surprised.


That's because nobody has first-hand knowledge of in-person voting fraud. There is none.
 
Giltric
2012-10-02 11:54:09 AM  

King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.


The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?
 
Dusk-You-n-Me [TotalFark]
2012-10-02 11:54:14 AM  

olddinosaur: Go to google and key in "illegal immigrant voting," and you will find about 8.5 million of these citation thingies you love so well.

RTFP, doofus.


I googled "aliens eat brains" and got 24,900,000 hits, er, citations.

I had no idea there was such an alien brain eating problem. And it's THREE TIMES the problem of illegal immigrant voting. I'll alert the media.
 
pipedreampi
2012-10-02 11:54:15 AM  

slykens1: qorkfiend: Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

Funnily enough, if you want an ID to vote PennDOT will give you one for free.

Oh, and your nursing home ID and student ID are OK too if they have an expiration date.

I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.


Am I the only one who laughed at the though that the elderly were being told WHEN they expire?
 
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