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(Washington Post)   U.S. government spends $20,000 per household while taxing $17,000 per household. You do the math   ( msnbc.com) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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9346 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2003 at 3:59 AM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2003-11-25 05:19:11 PM  
Damned "borrow and spend" conservatives. I can remember when the Republicans could credibly present themselves as the party of fiscal responsibility. Those days are long gone.
2003-11-25 05:20:20 PM  
Here's the spending formula:

All the taxes + whatever they think they can get away with = budget
2003-11-25 05:25:11 PM  
strangely i'm okay with that.
2003-11-25 06:51:36 PM  
This is the one reason why I don't want to have kids, I'd be guilty of endorsing slavery. :(
2003-11-25 07:08:52 PM  
Let's see, here...umm...carry the two...yep...I owe $3000 more next year.
2003-11-25 07:52:52 PM  
17k !?!?! i wish. we paid over 40k last year
2003-11-25 08:07:39 PM  
And the rape continues. Bush, and his brothers, are career white collar criminals.
2003-11-25 08:08:57 PM  
"Household" gives the impression that these monies are going to social services and public works.

The money is going to Bush campaign sponsors and friends.

Oh wait, wait....its Clinton's fault.
Nah, its those damn Democrats who own the majority of Congre.....
2003-11-25 08:30:22 PM  

Perhaps you do not understand the concept of "average."

Somewhere Bill Gates is saying "over 40k? I wish!!!"

Somewhere hundreds of thousands are people are saying "17k?!?! I wish I earned that much last year!!!!"
2003-11-25 09:16:49 PM  
Folks, you know it's bad when the likes of Limbaugh are on the GOPs ass for the overspending. The problem being that the GOP is as desperate to hold power as the Dems are to get it back that they get into "entitlement" pissing contests...

The result? If I may...

From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."
2003-11-25 09:38:13 PM  
Interesting quote.
2003-11-25 09:58:35 PM  
I see the US in the apathy-dependency stage...
2003-11-25 10:17:43 PM  
2003-11-25 10:32:25 PM  
Good quote, D_I_A, and, sadly, I've gotta agree with your prognosis of our great society.
2003-11-25 10:40:19 PM  
never have so many been so blessed while so many more live in poverty and despair.

-at the hands of the so called 'blessed'

the "united states of america"...founded on 'judeo-christian' values.

take a long look at the new supreme court building in jerusalem.

the 'all seeing eye' of evil has a perch.

"in god we trust"

-bet on it.
2003-11-26 12:05:57 AM  
And Rome will fall again.
2003-11-26 01:50:20 AM  
I see the US in the apathy-dependency stage...

Me too, but that gives us a good 80 years yet. I should be dead before the shiat really hits the fan, so I don't care.
2003-11-26 04:08:06 AM  
HA HA supichoo, I didn't pay ANY federal taxes last year! Well, I did, but they gave it all back 'cause I'm poor so HA! Oh... wait...

I hope you are wrong impaler.... I NEED that shiat!
2003-11-26 04:11:06 AM  
So much for compassion or conservatism. What a total joke.

All, please look up "Starve the Beast" economics as described by Krugman. The government is going to fall apart
2003-11-26 04:16:45 AM  
Fortunately not all the money for the Federal government comes from income taxes. I haven't seen a recent breakdown, but I believe at one point more revenue came from import duties.

That said, the Federal Government is totally out of farking control and their unfunded mandates are crushing the states. I can't believe we have to choose between Bush and a bunch of Democratic asshats. Scary shiat...
2003-11-26 04:20:30 AM  
As per PimpJewce's order:
The Tax-cut con by Paul Krugman
2003-11-26 04:35:52 AM  
"Government spending now totals $20,000 per household, a level not seen since World War II"

"$23.5 billion in tax breaks, most of them for oil and gas producers"

"private health plans were assuaged by $12 billion more in subsidies than either the House or the Senate envisioned in the Medicare bills they passed in June"

"Bushs $87 billion request for military operations and assistance for Iraq and Afghanistan... had actually grown by $500 million."

"The deficit will peak this year but is still on course to be cut in half by 2008"

Call me crazy, but wasn't it just three years ago that we were operating with a surplus? Now, the best-case scenario is that we're operating with a deficit of only 250 Billion in eight years?

This administration has become a joke, even to the GOP.

"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."
- George W. Bush, May 2000
2003-11-26 04:36:23 AM  
That Alexander Tyler quote, is, I believe, well over 200 years old, not just one century. He wrote that while we were still little piddly colonies.

Heh. "Piddly."
2003-11-26 04:41:26 AM  
So let me get this sraight;
"Fiscally responsible" Repub's are bribing "Tax and spend" Dem's with pork for everyone's little pet projects.
We face a deficit that could soon reach 500 BILLION dollars.
We are in combat in two countries with no practical end in sight.
The Bengals are in first place.
Sounds like the "End Times" to me.
2003-11-26 04:42:04 AM  
Fortunately not all the money for the Federal government comes from income taxes.


Enron whore Paul Krugman never told me that.
2003-11-26 04:43:01 AM  
Thanks zerkalo

Ahh the beloved import duties. Like the steel tariff that is going to cost us $2.2B and lead to the exclusion of the sale of many US products in the EU.
2003-11-26 04:49:17 AM  
HAHA your country is screwed....haha...ha...>coughcough<..man am I cold and lonley...I wish people knew where Canada was.
2003-11-26 04:56:44 AM  
also, "Tytler," not Tyler.
2003-11-26 05:09:46 AM  
Fourdoorlovemonkey I know where Canada is.. I'd much rather stay here.
2003-11-26 05:13:33 AM  
What's the statistic about if Bill Gates is in a room with 29 homeless guys the average income is in the billions?
2003-11-26 05:21:29 AM  
I believe the average net worth would be in the billions, not income.
2003-11-26 05:28:46 AM  
so that means the homeless aren't pulling their weight.. lazy SOBs
2003-11-26 05:32:42 AM  
When Kennedy was president, you could tell the parties apart. Since Nixon, you can't tell a Dem from a Repub. All they do is spend. They are so close in fact, they should merge into the ScrewYou party. And the trade deficit continues to expand as we are flooded with junk from China, who keeps getting the jobs we aren't shipping to Mexico. Viva la NAFTA.

/early morning rant aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
2003-11-26 05:32:46 AM  
Don't you just love it when Limbaugh, Nedved (or is it Medved?) smirk at Libertarians, claiming them a waste of a vote, to be third-party 'kooks' because it's the almighty purpose of anyone right-of-center to fight off the democrats by voting republican?

Look what happens when they are elected. It makes Limbaugh and company look less and less credible while making Neal Boortz look like the one to whom we should be paying attention.

This is why I hate republicans, the phoney party. At least the socialist democrats do what they say they will do. Modern republican politicians are gutless liars when it comes to Big Government.

Thank you, Dancing_in_Anson, for supplying that quote. I saw it for the first time at Neal Boortz's website. How appropriate.
2003-11-26 05:35:36 AM  
I think Bush has really shot himself in the foot over steel tarrifs. The increased tarrifs affect many US businesses that need to buy high quality steel for manufacturing.

In addition, the EU sanctions are going to be specifically targeted at important products in marginal Republican states.
2003-11-26 05:36:33 AM  
so that means the homeless aren't pulling their weight.. lazy SOBs

Exactly. They should have written one BASIC interpreter back in the 70's and ridden that single real technical accomplishment to untold wealth as well.
2003-11-26 05:37:16 AM  
You know, give each household $20,000 a year and I'm sure we can get along just plain fine without the government's "help".
Seriously though.
I'd be in favor of a ~1 percent across the board tax on every person 18-65 and every corporation. Whatever you made last year, move the decimal over a bit, and if that amount is less than $15, don't even bother sending anything in.
I'm not going to biatch about 1% going to the government if I make $40,000 year. If I'm making less than $15k a year it does begin to sound like alot, but. . .
No loopholes, no deductions.
Actually, it would be nice to have 1% of your all the money you have instead of what you earn - which would increase spending and encourage folks to reduce personal debt. Spend it or lose it, and pay off that house and car instead of paying us.
Of course, folks would stash their money out of the country or hoard cash, but you should be able to flag folks that do that pretty easily since the "war on drugs" has already provided the means to do so.
Inflation would become an issue, especially with items that have, shall we say "intangible value" (i.e. dvds, etc) but even that can be taken care of. Ditto with foreign imports and the such. It would piss a bunch of people off, but it could be handled.
It would make sense though, and make it painfully easy for folks (even folks in florida) to file their own returns.
60% of the money taken in would go to the states, 40% to the feds. Also ban sales taxes at the federal / state level while keeping the other "revenue sources" open.

Would the government pull in more money? Yeah, without billions lost from loopholes and tax breaks, without a doubt. Of course, an entire industry would fall apart, but I suppose some things must go for the sake of progress.
/wonders why he's going to post this in the midst of a flame war. . .
2003-11-26 05:43:34 AM  
Being a Newbie to posting and the like (though i have been a long time Fark reader) can i be the devils advocate and throw out a wild thought?

It's the publics fault.

We elect these SOB's to office and when they get there they are greeted by the likes of Halliburton, Enron and so on... with pockets deep enough for a politician or twelve and then these people turn their backs on us. We want super low taxes, yet complain when the defecit rises. We complain about higher prices of products demanding companies sell at our price, yet we can't understand why our jobs are being shipped to another country. We are an instant gratification country destroying ourselves.
there is a revolution being born in this country and if the politicians dont take notice, citizens are going to have to stand up and take their country back. with the technology today everything should be up for popular vote... from budget concerns to gay marriage... let the country decide, not a few select corrupt individuals.
2003-11-26 05:46:04 AM  
so that means the homeless aren't pulling their weight.. lazy SOBs

Exactly. They should have written one BASIC interpreter back in the 70's and ridden that single real technical accomplishment to untold wealth as well.

Quick to the time machine!!!
2003-11-26 05:47:45 AM  
I like the quote too, but I actually would put us at the selfishness point in the arc.

I think it's a fairly recent phenomenon that people are so shamelessly willing to scream and pout about having to "pay up."

I believe that in previous generations it was more a point of pride to give back to a society that afforded people the opportunity of creating a good life for themselves. (well, except for a large chunk of the uber-rich... They've always been selfish pricks manipulating every extra buck they could out of the system... That's how they get to be "uber-rich.")

Whether that debt took the form of taxes, community service, or military service, people in the middle classes seemed more willing to pay/do their part.

Now, everyone gleefully biatches and moans and screams and cries at the thought that they may put a nickel in that isn't coming directly back to them.

I think that's why there are seemingly more libertarians and Randroids coming out of the woodwork these days...

While both groups have some noble ideals, it seems to me that 90% of the people who profess belief in those ideals are actually sold merely on the idea that they "shouldn't have to pay taxes to pay for blah, blah, blah..."

Everybody wants the government custom tailored to them...

"I don't have kids, why should I be paying taxes to support schools."

...so that the country will continue to grow and remain competitive in the international marketplace, jackass.

"Why should my taxes go to trying to help create opportunities for the poor to step up out of of poverty?"

...so that you won't end up paying to keep some guy in jail after he sticks a gun under your mom's nose when she's walking away from the ATM, moron.
2003-11-26 05:52:13 AM  
Everybody wants the government custom tailored to them...

With modern computers and such, we should all be able to have custom governments taylored to our own needs!
2003-11-26 05:53:15 AM  
So, let's see...

Everything is breaking down. The economy, the political system...

Hell, the weather has been very strange recently. Fires in one place, floods in another, droughts in a forth... In fact, the "Big One" (earthquake) is still due in California. The damn sun has been acting up!

More and more people seem depressed, or just flat out mentally unbalanced. Human creativity is going down the drain: virtually nothing new is being made.

In short, there's visible decay on every level, from the physical and mental, to the political and economical.

Anyone starting to think that this is all kind of creepy?...
2003-11-26 05:54:05 AM  
technicolor-misfit: What's a Randroid? I swear I have never heard that word until now.
2003-11-26 05:58:34 AM  
To top it all off, I lost the power to count to four.

I wonder what is in the third place... Locust, maybe?

No, wait, I know what's in the third place. A giant web made by a million tiny spiders.
2003-11-26 06:00:33 AM  
AlienOmega - What's a Randroid? I swear I have never heard that word until now.

A disciple in the church of Ayn Rand... Also known as an Objectivist.

Like I said, there are some noble ideals in Rand's philosophy... but a great many of her followers believe devoutly in everything she had to say, and take her ideas to extremes.

Thus, they are sometimes referred to as "Randroids."
2003-11-26 06:00:36 AM  
"virtually nothing new is being made."


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."

Charles H. Duell, Commissioner of the US Patent Office, 1899
2003-11-26 06:03:49 AM  
Interestingly, $2000 per person goes to Iraq.
2003-11-26 06:04:49 AM  
At the risk of being unpopular...


End of Times. How farking melo-dramatic. How many Great Civilisations have risen and fallen in the last 1000 years alone? The world still appears to be here.
Just as long as you don't get petulant and try to take the rest of us with you.

If it worries you that much I'm sure your friends in South America will help (after the billions of dollars your leaders have ploughed into them over the years).

2003-11-26 06:10:09 AM  

you're right.

selfishness is the meme of the day.

"why shouldn't the american people take half my money from me? i took it all from them." - edward albert filene

the libertarians and randroids want us to return to the 1890s, except with free trade.
2003-11-26 06:12:30 AM  
brokenpost - At the risk of being unpopular...

Actually I agree with you... I think it's every generations vanity that leads them to believe they are simultaneously at the peak of human knowledge, and in the abyss of societal collapse.

Throughout history, every culture and age, people have pronounced they were at the end of human achievement and the beginning of the collapse of man.

and yes, even if the U.S. managed to collapse under it's own weight, the world would manage to march on in our wake.
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