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(KATU)   Praise God and serve the $500k defamation lawsuit for a negative online review from a shunned parishoner   (katu.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, defamation  
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9048 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 May 2012 at 6:47 AM (8 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2012-05-12 9:10:33 AM  

solokumba: this could be a fun thing to do on a saturday morning: review time


I added mine!
 
2012-05-12 9:11:13 AM  

bugontherug: So one group of crazy religionists is oppressing another pair of crazy religionists?

100% guarantee that the defendants have participated in the persecution of homosexuals.

So let me get out my violin... it's the world's smallest, you know.


What a juvenile way of thinking.
 
2012-05-12 9:14:22 AM  
This is a tactic that Scientology would pull....
 
2012-05-12 9:18:47 AM  
My review:
I ACCUSE THE PASTOR AND CHURCH OF HORRIFIC CRIMES AGAINST HTML.


/awaiting approval... probably will never be approved... just like fark submissions
 
2012-05-12 9:22:40 AM  

RDixon: [lh3.googleusercontent.com image 268x263]

Chuck O'Neal - 2 months ago
DEFAMATION IS A CRIME: It is convenient and crafty to wage a three and a half year war of reviling defamation in which you and those with you ACCUSE THE PASTOR AND CHURCH OF HORRIFIC CRIMES AGAINST GOD AND MEN,

Google reviews are almost a laugh.....


DAMN... you broke google

/that's all we know
 
2012-05-12 9:22:45 AM  
And that is why Religion is a joke......I believe in Jesus but don't believe that any LIVING FALLEN MAN should impose HIS earthly rules on us aka No R-rated movies unless it has Jesus in them, no-non christian music etc. Love the crack pots that insist when Jesus turned the water into wine it was grape juice. Pharisee please.....back in those days the water... not so good to drink. Wine was one of the only "safe" beverages one could consume. Then we get into the conversation of "New" (aka mulled)wine versus aged wine etc. etc. etc. People love to take one little bit of scripture, run with it and then corrupt it.
 
2012-05-12 9:31:49 AM  

iketurner: And that is why Religion is a joke......I believe in Jesus but don't believe that any LIVING FALLEN MAN should impose HIS earthly rules on us aka No R-rated movies unless it has Jesus in them, no-non christian music etc. Love the crack pots that insist when Jesus turned the water into wine it was grape juice. Pharisee please.....back in those days the water... not so good to drink. Wine was one of the only "safe" beverages one could consume. Then we get into the conversation of "New" (aka mulled)wine versus aged wine etc. etc. etc. People love to take one little bit of scripture, run with it and then corrupt it.


Rule 1 when reading the Bible: Cherry pick the verses you agree with, and ignore the rest
 
2012-05-12 9:46:26 AM  

iketurner: Love the crack pots that insist when Jesus turned the water into wine it was grape juice


My wife's church that she went to from grade school though High School told this lie. I remember her youth pastor talking about this and I asked if he believed that independently observed, confirmed scientific facts were real...like that we rotate around the sun, put water on a seed, it will grow, etc. He said yes.

I then asked if he knew anything about natural fermentation...like wild yeast and why bread rises, etc. He said he understood the concept. I then asked him if you were to take fresh grapes and process them into juice the same way the ancient Jews did back in the day, would it ferment. He said yes. I then asked aside from the alcohol in juice providing a means to cause drunkenness, does the alcohol have any other purpose? He said no.

I then asked if the entirety of the worlds population had access to clean drinking water. He said no. He did not grasp the fact that alcohol had a preservation purpose and a means to provide viable water to the human body as well.

What an idiot.
 
2012-05-12 9:52:33 AM  
From her blog in the comment section....

IvanTheSilent Just so you know, your blog has gone national. Fark.com, a fairly large and well known news aggrigator has picked up KATU's story and put it on their main page. Anyway, best of luck to you, hope this goes your way!


Anonymous A word of caution. Fark is known for its rough edges and snarkiness, but at heart we're mostly a bunch of good people with a soft spot for kittens. Don't take any negative comments personally
 
2012-05-12 10:08:43 AM  
SHUN THE NON-BELIEVERS. SHUN

 
dh2
2012-05-12 10:43:10 AM  

The Asshole Guy: From her blog in the comment section....

IvanTheSilent Just so you know, your blog has gone national. Fark.com, a fairly large and well known news aggrigator has picked up KATU's story and put it on their main page. Anyway, best of luck to you, hope this goes your way!


Anonymous A word of caution. Fark is known for its rough edges and snarkiness, but at heart we're mostly a bunch of good people with a soft spot for kittens. Don't take any negative comments personally


Her response to the 'word of caution':

Julie AnneMay 12, 2012 7:02 AM
Snark is a lesser evil than spiritual abuse. I've got my big girl panties on :) Bring it on!
 
2012-05-12 10:45:23 AM  
How is this church different than Scientology??
 
2012-05-12 10:45:45 AM  
I'm betting that if this wasn't a church, the Fark Formula of Who to Hate would wind up focusing on her. Whatever happened to accepting the consequences of her actions? Many times people leave churches or other groups and spread rumors, or intentionally degrade the church.


If she said this: "people act unloving and unkind because the rules are more important than the heart of the people"

it makes me wonder what are the rules she didn't want to agree to when becoming part of the community. This world is full of people who want everything their way and when they don't get it, they take to the internet to complain. Hell, I'm surprised she didn't call Consumerist. Then Fark really wouldn't have known who to choose to support.
 
2012-05-12 11:13:27 AM  
Great. Right down the street from where I live. I might have to hop a bus one Sunday and go chickity-check this place out.

/Catholic in a Baptist joint
//mmhm
 
2012-05-12 11:15:38 AM  

solokumba: RDixon: [lh3.googleusercontent.com image 268x263]

Chuck O'Neal - 2 months ago
DEFAMATION IS A CRIME: It is convenient and crafty to wage a three and a half year war of reviling defamation in which you and those with you ACCUSE THE PASTOR AND CHURCH OF HORRIFIC CRIMES AGAINST GOD AND MEN,

Google reviews are almost a laugh.....

DAMN... you broke google

/that's all we know


It was like that when I got there.....
Honest.
 
2012-05-12 11:24:38 AM  
2 thoughts:

1: There are a number of fairly objective definitions of "cult" and "psychologically abusive." If a church demands absolute loyalty to a pastor and forces members to cut off contact with the outside world, then I'd kind of hope that her lawyer would play the "truth is an absolute defense" thing. That may just be a naive dream, however, since that doesn't always work.

2: If churches are now able to sue anyone who says anything bad about them, then the caseload in U.S. courts is about to increase by a factor of 10 or so.
 
2012-05-12 11:30:42 AM  
If a church tells it's parishoners to avaoid all contact with non & former members, it's a cult. period.

That should be rule #1 in the "How to tell a church from a cult"

/personally, I think they are all cults to a degree.
 
Azz [TotalFark]
2012-05-12 11:31:50 AM  
I just single handedly brought down their rating on yellowpages by 2 stars. How does that Fight Club quote go? We cook your food.....Don't fark with us
 
2012-05-12 11:33:55 AM  

solomonsnell: if this wasn't a church, the Fark Formula of Who to Hate would wind up focusing on her


Yes, and if a frog had wings his ass wouldn't hit the ground when he jumped. So what? We're not here to discuss the hypothetical, like if it wasn't a church. It is a church, so here we are.
 
2012-05-12 11:34:13 AM  

Farking Canuck: How is this ANY church different than Scientology??


/Fixed
 
2012-05-12 11:39:04 AM  
dh2: The Asshole Guy: From her blog in the comment section....

IvanTheSilent Just so you know, your blog has gone national. Fark.com, a fairly large and well known news aggrigator has picked up KATU's story and put it on their main page. Anyway, best of luck to you, hope this goes your way!


Anonymous A word of caution. Fark is known for its rough edges and snarkiness, but at heart we're mostly a bunch of good people with a soft spot for kittens. Don't take any negative comments personally

Her response to the 'word of caution':

Julie AnneMay 12, 2012 7:02 AM
Snark is a lesser evil than spiritual abuse. I've got my big girl panties on :) Bring it on!


Gotta give her some credit for having some spunk.
 
2012-05-12 11:43:39 AM  

solokumba: this could be a fun thing to do on a saturday morning: review time


:) mine too
 
2012-05-12 11:45:43 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: 2 thoughts:

1: There are a number of fairly objective definitions of "cult" and "psychologically abusive." If a church demands absolute loyalty to a pastor and forces members to cut off contact with the outside world, then I'd kind of hope that her lawyer would play the "truth is an absolute defense" thing. That may just be a naive dream, however, since that doesn't always work.

2: If churches are now able to sue anyone who says anything bad about them, then the caseload in U.S. courts is about to increase by a factor of 10 or so.


In the U.S., libel suits are hard to win. She has several defenses -

1) Truth - if she has other witnesses who will testify that the church broadcast private confessions in its sermons, ordered its members to shun those who leave, covered up sexual abuse, etc., the church and the pastor are done. The pastor must prove (at least) more likely than not that what Julie Ann said was false. If you get other disinterested witnesses who corroborate the defendant's story, it's extremely unlikely that the pastor's case will survive.

2) Opinion - calling a church "creepy" or "controlling" are opinion. You can't sue people for stating an unfavorable opinion or voicing their subjective feelings about a place. If I call you an asshole, that's not defamation, because that's my opinion, an expression of my personal feelings about you, and not expressing objective statements about your bad behavior. Defamation would be a situation where I said "so-and-so rapes children" and it's not true.

3) First Amendment - If the court finds that a church and its pastor are limited public figures for First Amendment purposes, the bar for proof gets a lot higher, and they cannot win. They'd have to prove, by "clear and convincing evidence" (somewhere between 50% and 95%) that the defendant knew what she was saying was untrue and said it anyway.
 
2012-05-12 12:00:19 PM  

The Asshole Guy: Gotta give her some credit for having some spunk.


"I hate spunk!"

-Lou Grant
 
2012-05-12 12:37:13 PM  
scientology-canberra-freedom.org.auView Full Size

Yes! You are learning well, young padawan. Let the hate flow through you! Sue! Sue!!
 
2012-05-12 12:42:27 PM  

bhcompy: Bathia_Mapes: I don't see how the church's charges against these people will stand up in court.

Salt Lick Steady: No, there's no way this will hold up in court.

Regardless, the family has to pay for a lawyer, which means they're losing either way.


Lawyers, court costs, and worst of all in a way, the time spent dealing with this bullshiat.
/Was myself a victim of a frivolous lawsuit
 
2012-05-12 12:45:23 PM  
Well, considering in ye olde days they would have just burned them at the stake, or the Inquisition or something, I guess you can call it progress. Of a sort....
 
2012-05-12 12:45:43 PM  

indylaw: bugontherug: So one group of crazy religionists is oppressing another pair of crazy religionists?

100% guarantee that the defendants have participated in the persecution of homosexuals.

So let me get out my violin... it's the world's smallest, you know.

What a juvenile way of thinking.


Actually it is a very good way of framing this issue. The woman in TFA refused to even lift a finger to help her daughter move out of the house because she no longer wanted to go to that church and would not allow her adult children unsupervised time together for the same reason. What comes around goes around.

I completely agree with her right to criticize the church but come on, give complete control of your life to a bunch of fudies and then act shocked when they treat you just like they treat everyone else that doesn't 100% agree with them? The suit needs to be thrown out , greedom of dpeech and all that, but this is exactly the sort of thing that any rational person should expect from this type of group.
 
Azz [TotalFark]
2012-05-12 1:01:13 PM  
Added a couple topical reviews on Yelp. All of you should take 5 mins to do so as well :)
 
2012-05-12 1:04:11 PM  

Farking Canuck: How is this church different than Scientology??


No celebrities to infuse cash into their "church" and as far as I know none of them are hopping up and down on Oprah's couch.

/free Katie!
 
2012-05-12 1:10:20 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: I don't see how the church's charges against these people will stand up in court.


Did you mean "stand up in church"?
 
2012-05-12 1:30:14 PM  

rosemary's baby daddy: AverageAmericanGuy: But the pastor claims in the lawsuit he filed that her words, "creepy," "cult," "control tactics," and "spiritual abuse," are defamation.

There might be something to this lawsuit if she's accusing them of things they aren't true and are seriously damaging their reputation.

God forbid the article give us any clue about what they actually posted. To me that makes it look like there could be some merit since the article is clearly biased in favor of the defendants. Omitting the reviews entirely seems like poor journalism at the very least but maybe I am leveling myself here...


They may be far too lengthy to include in their entirety - and editing excerpts out of them would put the journalist in the position of interpreting and representing the defendants words - not a good idea. Defamation requires a high standard - the plaintiff must demonstrate that actual words or actions that are criminal or unethical in nature have been falsely attributed to them, that their falsehood was known to the defendant, and that those false imputations have harmed them.
You can start a blog tomorrow entitled "JSO2897 is a big, ugly jerk", and devote that entire blog to expounding upon your belief that I am a shiathead, asshole, and motherf**ker. But unless you actually say I did something bad that I didn't do, and I can prove you knew it was false, and that your intent was malicious, and that I was harmed - I have no case against you.
 
2012-05-12 1:36:54 PM  

solomonsnell: I'm betting that if this wasn't a church, the Fark Formula of Who to Hate would wind up focusing on her. Whatever happened to accepting the consequences of her actions? Many times people leave churches or other groups and spread rumors, or intentionally degrade the church.


If she said this: "people act unloving and unkind because the rules are more important than the heart of the people"

it makes me wonder what are the rules she didn't want to agree to when becoming part of the community. This world is full of people who want everything their way and when they don't get it, they take to the internet to complain. Hell, I'm surprised she didn't call Consumerist. Then Fark really wouldn't have known who to choose to support.


Uh, dude? She isn't the plaintiff in this "lawsuit". It is the church that is unwilling to accept the consequences of it's own actions - namely, that if you treat people in ways they don't like, they may say bad things about you. They want Big Daddy Government to step in and make the mean lady be quiet.
More whiny, victimized, holier-than-thou pussies. Just what we needed.
 
2012-05-12 2:07:19 PM  

rosemary's baby daddy: AverageAmericanGuy: But the pastor claims in the lawsuit he filed that her words, "creepy," "cult," "control tactics," and "spiritual abuse," are defamation.

There might be something to this lawsuit if she's accusing them of things they aren't true and are seriously damaging their reputation.

God forbid the article give us any clue about what they actually posted. To me that makes it look like there could be some merit since the article is clearly biased in favor of the defendants. Omitting the reviews entirely seems like poor journalism at the very least but maybe I am leveling myself here...


Given that the church flat-out refused to provide their side of the story, it seems sensible to only cover the content of the complaint itself rather than any specific posts from the blog or the reviews. The article actually appears well-balanced.
 
2012-05-12 3:03:29 PM  

Mock26: Beaverton Grace Bible Church Survivors blog.


Interesting post on "Legalism" (the addition of rules above and beyond the basic tenets of the religion to enforce appearance and make you feel shame for any superficial violation) a little down the page. I might look that up for a more in-depth analysis across different churches.
 
2012-05-12 3:06:47 PM  

LovingTeacher: Actually it is a very good way of framing this issue. The woman in TFA refused to even lift a finger to help her daughter move out of the house because she no longer wanted to go to that church and would not allow her adult children unsupervised time together for the same reason. What comes around goes around.


It does say that after the disillusionment affected the entire family, they came back together and bonded over their mutual hate of the "church" though. At least they're not Mormon, or the kid probably would have been a permanent outsider.
 
2012-05-12 3:43:15 PM  
I used to hope for world peace, now I hope for the end of organized religion. It might just achieve both.
 
2012-05-12 4:21:13 PM  

itsfullofstars: I used to hope for world peace, now I hope for the end of organized religion. It might just achieve both.


The end of religion wont stop domestic problems and petty squabbles.

We will never know peace, but we can know a much more peaceful world.
 
2012-05-12 6:59:53 PM  
A legalistic church is doing something stupid..................

2.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2012-05-12 7:34:24 PM  
Just checked out the Google reviews and am having a blast reading the reviews! Thanks for the link Solokumba!
Hope this woman wins the case if it doesn't get thrown out.
 
2012-05-12 7:50:11 PM  
When she wins her lawyer will recover fees from the church through the suit itself, so no worries there.

No lawyer would be stupid enough to charge a client such as her upfront; they could make so much more recovering fees from the other side.
 
2012-05-12 8:16:25 PM  
The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? - 1 Corinthians 6:7

indylaw: She has several defenses -


Might "free religious exercise" provide any additional affirmative defense? =)
 
2012-05-12 10:24:40 PM  

NutWrench: But the pastor claims in the lawsuit he filed that her words, "creepy," "cult," "control tactics," and "spiritual abuse," are defamation.

Oh, the irony.


Yeah those are some very classic signs right there.
 
2012-05-13 12:43:04 AM  
I used to go to a church like that, then I stopped. Those people suck.
 
2012-05-13 7:11:19 PM  
I grew up in a great Baptist church, very friendly and non-judgmental. Then they hired this preacher that used to teach at one of the conservative Baptist Colleges (Cedarville) and that started the slide into legalism. The current preacher, the one we left the church because of, used to keep attendance and would question you on why you missed. Our friends, who also left the church, were questioned about missing on a Sunday morning, the same morning the wife's father DIED.

Sad to say, it's still like that.
 
2012-05-14 11:36:48 AM  

itsfullofstars: I used to hope for world peace, now I hope for the end of organized religion. It might just achieve both.


You cannot have one, if you have the other.
 
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