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(ABC News)   NTSB says birds not the cause of yesterday's plane accident   ( divider line
    More: Interesting  
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3901 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Nov 2001 at 2:54 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

43 Comments     (+0 »)
2001-11-13 02:56:28 PM  
Typical media crap.

Report til they're blue in the face, then retract everything - blame Canada.
2001-11-13 02:58:14 PM  
Um... duh?
2001-11-13 02:59:12 PM  
We will never know the truth! The whole bird theory was a bunch of bullshiat. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya.
2001-11-13 03:05:18 PM  
ummm, dear readers:

The NTSB didn't say that anywhere.

One investigator told he WSJ therre was bird debris.

One investigator told ABC there wasn't.

There's ntohing from the NTSB in this story that says there was no bird.
2001-11-13 03:06:23 PM  
"``The communications from the cockpit were normal up until the last few seconds before the crash,'' said Marion Blakey, the head of the National Transportation Safety Board. She did not elaborate on the last few moments."

Tell me the last comments!!!!! For some reason, it's a big secret!!! AAaaiiigghhhh!!!!!
2001-11-13 03:08:23 PM  
A deer took over a man's office! GOLD!
2001-11-13 03:10:15 PM  
as tasteless as it is.. I have a Monty/Holy Grail moment coming to mind...

"what does the tape say?"
"he says 'turn bearing 120 and climb to ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh'"
"climb to ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh? where is that?"
"I dont know, that's what he says"

ok, I know I just burned up some Karma points on that one :(
2001-11-13 03:14:49 PM  
Gee, a single unofficial "I found no evidence of bird debris" out of how many dozens or hundreds of investigators and it's considered gospel?
2001-11-13 03:16:26 PM  
I still think it was a bird. Sesame Street is in New York, isn't it?
2001-11-13 03:16:56 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2001-11-13 03:23:10 PM  
hehehehe... LANshark, you funny...
2001-11-13 03:24:41 PM  
Yesterday I heard the pilot dumped fuel. Now that seems a little odd considering that every was alright until the last few seconds before the crash.

Does anybody know if the Cigaratte Man from the X-files went to work for the NTSB????
2001-11-13 03:24:42 PM  
After getting sucked into an engine the biggest piece of bird left would be smaller than a rat turd
2001-11-13 03:26:54 PM  
i wouldn't be surprised if they're was some foul play involved. someone could have unplugged a few wires or something on the ground crew that was a terrorist
2001-11-13 03:29:11 PM
2001-11-13 03:29:16 PM  
AnabolicassassinYesterday I heard the pilot dumped fuel.
Thats why you never believe the initial reports.
I heard that this particular plane doesn't have capability to dump fuel. Also, I'm sure the pilots were too busy fighting the plane to dump fuel.
2001-11-13 03:30:16 PM  
"But at least one past crash shows an engine falling off an aircraft can be catastrophic"

Wow, I'm glad we have that historic reference, or I'd think an engine falling off would be perfectly okay! Thank you ABCnews for the insight!
2001-11-13 03:30:16 PM  
Well, given the administrations current bent for banning anything that could possibly have been, but wasn't used in terrorist attacks, or even in events that turned out not to be terrorist attacks I fully expect a ban on owning birds within the next 24 hours. The next step will be the national guard denying boarding to toddlers wearing tweety-bird t-shirts or anybody caught boarding with a copy of Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds" on their laptop.

In other news, 60's rock group "The Byrds" were summarily executed at an Indian casino where they were appearing in a Battle of the Has Been Bands competition last night. A spokesman for the military stated that "They were obviously sympathizers with those avian terrorists. The casino was less than 100 miles from a municipal airport. We can are damned sure that they were planning on stealing a biplane and crashing it into a mound of dust somewhere in the Great Plains states."

2001-11-13 03:44:29 PM  
"i wouldn't be surprised if they're was some foul play involved. someone could have unplugged a few wires or something on the ground crew that was a terrorist"

No. The engines that are on the Airbus A-300 have a disk on the main turbine shaft that serve as stabilizer. These disks have been responsible for "catastrophic engine malfunctions" in the past. The engine basically violently ripped itself apart from the inside out.

The mounting pylon is supposed to break and set the engine apart from the rest of the plane in the event of one of these "malfunctions". The pylon more than likely wasn't secured properly, and when the engine became, well, unstable, the engine and pylon broke free, and took part of the wing with it.
2001-11-13 03:51:19 PM  
I, too, doubted the "fuel dump" story in the beginning -- dumping highly flammable jet fuel over a residential area would have been FAR more devastating than the actual damage which occurred. Just a couple steps short of dropping napalm on people's houses...
2001-11-13 03:58:21 PM  
Now here's my question:

I heard this morning that the engine on this plane is the same as the engine on Air Force One, the CF6-80C2.

Am I the only one wondering if maybe somebody is practicing mechanical foulups on commercial planes before they go for the gold with Air Force One?
2001-11-13 04:01:02 PM  
heh, definately *foul* play involved...

ugh, please help me before I pun again...
2001-11-13 04:06:39 PM  
Very Punny.

Is anyone else pissed that this whole security issue is not taken care of. What I would like to see it someone from the FAA of the NTSB say, that since we check every bag that makes it onto an aircraft, we KNOW it is not a bomb. How many times do we bail out the airline industry before we hold them accountable, I nor my family will fly until these people fix their problem. You vote with you dollar.
2001-11-13 04:09:49 PM  
AzraelBrown: while I doubt that they dumped fuel in this accident(at least not intentionally), it really isn't a big deal for a jet to do that over a residential area. Most of it evaporates before hitting the ground. A few months ago a jet flying into DFW dumped fuel on the ritzy suburb of Flower Mound. A few kids had to get unscheduled baths and a few cars needed washing, but otherwise there was never any danger. It's happened several times there, from what I hear.

I think Aorlando probably made the best guess as to the cause of this accident.
2001-11-13 04:10:16 PM  
I think virtually all commercial planes are equipped with fuel dumps in case of emergency because if a plane already has trouble and is making an emergency landing, they want to get rid of anything that might cause more damage.

Jet fuel isn't actually all that flammable under normal circumstances. What's called "Jet A" is just kerosene that's slightly more pure than what you'd use in a lamp at home. Ever notice how you have to hold a match to your lamp to get it to ignite? Take Jet A and it does the same thing if it were in a puddle. Even if dumped over a residential area, about all you'd get would be a very fine and smelly mist over a very large area. It doesn't dump as if you upended a bucket but comes out thru a relatively small valve.
2001-11-13 04:10:50 PM  
Hooray for conspiracy theories!
2001-11-13 04:11:44 PM  
what, that whole "there's absolutely no way you can make everything safe" issue?
2001-11-13 04:16:40 PM  
farking towel heads...err, uh, I mean... towel bird heads!
2001-11-13 04:22:57 PM  
Why do I expect to see an article in next weeks National Enquirer claiming that the Taliban trained flocks of birds to commit suicidal missions by flying into the engines of American planes?
2001-11-13 04:29:36 PM  
[image from too old to be available]

JET the wonderdog, a trained birdwatcher will now be mandatory at all U.S. airports

2001-11-13 04:51:18 PM  
How come we don't have bigfoot in custody for this I the only one who knows whats going on? WTF is happening..
2001-11-13 05:27:20 PM  
I don't suspect any foul play here. I do, however, know that "fowl" play has not yet been ruled out....

Actually, who knows what really happened- like the article said, the flight data recorder will give a lot of insight. I'll post a link you how these things work if I can find it.
2001-11-13 06:03:26 PM  
If it is terrorism, I don't think we will hear anything about it for a while.

The veil will be drawn over it, only to be leaked out several years from now.
2001-11-13 06:08:15 PM  
With respect to all this "dumping" business. I have a feeling that what they saw was JET A being pumped out of a now engine-less pylon.

The whole notion of the engine departing the a/c, flipping up over the wing, and then striking and removing the vertical stabilizer seem a bit Bruckheimer-esque to me. Not to mention the fact that the leading edge of the stab appeared completely unscathed.
2001-11-13 06:10:18 PM  
Almost forgot, whoever titled this article ought to be hung. Twice.
2001-11-13 07:36:43 PM  
" 'If you lose a single engine and it does structural engine to its nearby wing - it's possible that the second engine may have been flung off the aircraft as it veered out of control,' said Alan Diehl, a former investigator with the National Transportation Safety Board. " (actual quote)

In other news: engine.
2001-11-13 08:05:56 PM  
A guy I used to know works as the cheif of testing engines for bird readyness at the GE Aircraft Engines Factory in Cincy, OH (which is where this engine was made).
They had a large field outside the city where they would mount a new engine for testing, and then use a custom catapult to launch frozen dead birds into it, and record the results. You would be supprised how many engines failed these tests, and you would also be supprised how interesting the tapes are of a frozen turkey being shredded by a jet engine.
2001-11-13 08:30:17 PM  
I remember driving to work a few years back, (going in to Anchorage, Alaska), and there was a fair sized mushroom cloud we could see from about 20 miles away. By the time we approached the location of the cloud, we heard on the radio what it was. An AWACS took some Canadian Geese into their engines and it brought the plane down. (Killed 19).

There was no doubt as to what happened. Here is the haunting transcript, the last words and moments.
2001-11-13 08:30:45 PM  
2001-11-13 09:09:20 PM  

Dont worry bout the prez. dont you remember in "Air Force One" how harrison ford had that little capsule to escape in... i guess the press corp and prez's staff are farked tho.
2001-11-13 10:13:33 PM  
Iota : I bet your friend had some great stories to tell about the time they tested the windscreens for those bullet trains as well !
2001-11-14 12:03:40 AM  
There is actually a "Bird-Strike Committe"? Wow.
2001-11-14 10:38:22 AM  
According to releases from the White House and Air Force One, that neat little escape capsule in that movie doesn't exist, or at least didn't. They may have modified the plane by now but they originally said that was pure fiction. Not that they'd admit it if it did exist.
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