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(Telegraph)   Pentagon claims "The war isn't going well"   ( portal.telegraph.co.uk) divider line
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7653 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Nov 2001 at 3:43 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2001-11-04 07:19:31 PM  
this should be Obvious
2001-11-04 07:20:37 PM  
[image from cagle.slate.msn.com too old to be available]

Don't know if I can legally post that...but I'm sure an admin will delete it if I can't...here, I'll link the source.
2001-11-04 07:38:52 PM  
DrRatchet: That would be the best soulution rather than Bush's "kill everybody" plan. But it wouldn't appease the warmongers and Islamophobes in the U.S. like FB-
2001-11-04 07:48:00 PM  
Yep, the biggest problem is the U.S., Britain et al and the
"Short Attention Span Theater' mentality of the public paying for this war. I'm willing to bet that come next Christmas we'll be debating still how to bring the situation to some logical conclusion.

My opinion... it's going to take a controversial and shocking show of force to turn this around, be it low-level nukes or an unprecedented ground force killing every living thing in sight. Since neither seems likely I'd say we're in for the long haul. Articles like this which are rumor and innuendo do nothing to help.
2001-11-04 07:57:09 PM  
Utter bullshiat. So one of the Secretary of Defense's head cabinet decided to tell a British reporter highly secret high level meetings complete contents? I mean, who risks their job, countries future, and personal freedom(treason is punishable by death and/or life inprisonment) to blab to any reporter, let alone one a foreign one. If it is true this farker should be hung from his balls on the flagpole at the pentagon as a warning to others (and probably will be if Rumsfield finds outt, which he won't because this is so completely utter bullshiat).
2001-11-04 08:05:51 PM  
Go to Drudge and look at the link about the New Yorker being full of shiat. The ranger raid that got so much news about being a screwup was considered completely sucessful. The 12 causlties were due to drop and terrain accidents, not one was from enemmy fire. The 2 deaths were from a helicopter crash in Pakistan from a sandstorm.
2001-11-04 08:17:52 PM  
Iraq: Mostly flat, desert surface like pavement. Mostly predictable military tactics. I asked a friend who was there, "Was it a helluva war out there?"

He said, "Well, yea...for the Iraqis, I guess..."

Afganistan: Hills, hills, hills. Tunnel networks. Decentralized forces.

Ain't never gonna be easy. This is not going to be pretty.

I suspect it won't be as hairy as Vietnam, but I choose not to speculate on anything that I really don't know JACK shiat about. The truth is, we'll read about this time 10 years from now, and be able to get the straight dope. I'm trying to read as much as I can about as many perspectives as I can find, but there is no way to polarize this conflict into right and wrong.

It's kinda cool to get the opinions and info from these message boards so I can go and check up on stuff. Thanks, everyone.
2001-11-04 08:29:58 PM  
Zkm, it wasn't the ranger raid that was reported to be screwed up, it was a delta force raid - which may or may not exist as far as i can tell. The ranger raid was reportedly a "TV movie" raid, with pathfinder forces ensuring that there was no resistance.

Again, this is just what you read.. it could all be shiat...
2001-11-04 08:31:01 PM  
Good one, CapnSponge!
2001-11-04 08:31:49 PM  
With all this talk about the evil doers, why hasn't dubya put on a cape and tights?
2001-11-04 08:40:42 PM  
I love how these article that claim the entire war is a disaster and that everything is going horribly NEVER have any sources that are willing to be quoted. Meanwhile as far as anyone knows the Taliban have yet to capture or kill a single US/British soldier in a war that's a month old and we have the press trying to convince us it's the next Vietnam.
2001-11-04 08:57:55 PM  
Have to agree wioth Fb-, though it looks like he's checked out from this thread. The "war" hasn't even started yet. Just wait.
2001-11-04 09:26:08 PM  
*with. I blame budweiser (god I'm cheap)
2001-11-04 09:37:09 PM  
proof that war solves nothing. but then again, the Taliban would have never given him up, and NEVER will. it's part of their culture, honour. all we did is screw people who did nothing, and piss people off. swell.
2001-11-04 09:37:33 PM  
grrrr. we were getting our asses kicked in ww2 for 2 and a half years.

we were getting our asses kicked the first 2 years of the civil war.

im not even gonna mention the am rev.

yeah, lost in vietnam, but they let children shoot at us and pussies in america decided we shouldn't shoot back.

Yogi Berra said something about waiting till its over.......
2001-11-04 09:39:13 PM  
Sorry for the double post but,

Pmd7176: yep, the liberation of nazi concentration camps proves that war solves nothing. *dumbass*
2001-11-04 09:44:59 PM  
today it solves nothing.

besides, hitler was an elected official. who were we to bother him? i think that shows a great disrespect for the german.
2001-11-04 09:45:29 PM  
Can you bomb someone ahead into the stone age?
2001-11-04 09:45:36 PM  
2001-11-04 09:48:26 PM  
Can anyone say "Thermo-Nuclear Detonations??

Blow the farkers up..!
2001-11-04 09:52:11 PM  
43%, vietnam was lost because of poor tactics, and a failure to win the hearts and minds war. In that kind of conflict, if the populace isn't with you, you might as well give up, becausethen you can't "win" without slaughtering the whole lot of them, which is, generally speaking, socially unaccepable :P
But seriously, I think tactics have come a long way since then... not to mention technology!
2001-11-04 09:52:57 PM  
And WALKEN - what did us farkers do to you? seems a bit harsh!
(just kidding...)
2001-11-04 09:56:08 PM  
I guess you need to revisit the objectives here.

This war was supposed to be a vasectomy for Terrorism. Has it not become that?

Getting Bin Laden is secondary. Destroying the Taliban is secondary. The Primary objective is stopping terrorist activities, stopping them at their source. I believe that that has happened, it has been curtailed severely. 1 year ago, Bin laden could set up a terrorist training camp in broad daylight in Afghanistan. Today he cannot, and never will again.

Is that progress? Is that success?

And what is this bullshiat about bringing down the Taliban government? What exactly does that mean? Is the Taliban still operating the Afghani postal service? Is it still sending out welfare checks? There never was a Taliban government, just an army. To talk of bringing down something that was never there is ludicrous. The comments about there not being anything to replace it are right on.

Some guy said it best about the comment

"Bin Laden has won"?

If he's won, how come he's sitting in some cave, no fire, no plumbing, wiping his ass with his beard because TP is rationed. He can't use his phone. He can't communicate synchronously with anyone. He can't even go out in the daylight. Ever again.

Meanwhile, I played golf today. I'm having a beer right now while watching the world series in my comfortable house, with my family. Some people have Anthrax in this country, and of course, all those died in the WTC disaster. That bothers me, as does the fact that Bin still breathes, but still, there are 299,999,999 others like me.

Ask me again who won.
2001-11-04 09:58:47 PM  
A terrorist hiding in a cave in Afghanistan is a terrorist who IS NOT in LaGuardia airport or trying to kill my ass in my bathroom.

Fine with me. The war is a success.
2001-11-04 10:01:57 PM  

Nice pic. You look a lot like Wil Wheaton.

And you're about as annoying. Violence can solve problems.

Example: It's 3 am on a Saturday night. Your ex-husband is drunk and trying to kick in the door. The restraining order obviously ain't working, and he's saying stuff like, "If I cain't have you, nobody can!" Your 3-year old daughter is crying, "Don't let Daddy hurt me."

How would you solve this situation?

Reason with him?
Call the cops, and hope that you hinges will make it for the next half-hour?
Push your daughter out the back window, and sacrifice yourself for her?
Or call Rosie O'Donnell and ask for her advice?
2001-11-04 10:09:40 PM  
Mailnride, Beanz, 43% -- kudos. Let's keep this in perspective. We have never won a war in a matter of weeks. It just don't work that way.
2001-11-04 10:15:49 PM  
OMG... forgot about the filters.... did not mean blow up farkers....y'all know what I meant...
2001-11-04 10:18:02 PM  
I was just watching a show on the History Channel about WW2, and how we would absolutely bomb the shiat out of their cities. We meant to kill their people, and that is the kind of attitude we must have to win this thing.

do you actually not see the difference between this and WWII? Here's a news flash WE ARE NOT AT WAR WITH FARKING AFGHANISTAN.
2001-11-04 10:24:48 PM  
About why we're being careful about Afghan civilians...

We couldn't win in Vietnam because even in "American controlled" territorry, lots of civilians hated the Diem and his American support, and turned from mild-mannered farmers to fighters against oppression (they didn't know the communist government would be no better). For the same reasons, the Soviets lost in Afghanistan.

As long as we keep the Afghans on our side, invading Afghanistan won't be so hard. We'll have logistical support from being allowed to use their towns and we'll be fighting against a very small number of people.
2001-11-04 10:28:46 PM  
The terrorists are taking a historic long view in their struggle. They first hit the WTC eight years ago. They patiently planned and plotted and finally achieved their goal.

The follow-up attacks on U.S. soil won't be this year, maybe not next year, or for five or more years. But there will be more. This is their dedication and their long-term outlook.

The US outlook is "We'll have it wrapped up in time for Xmas/Superbowl. Meanwhile, keep buying Big Macs."

U.S. capitalism, TV and advertising will be the ruin of us all.
2001-11-04 10:34:00 PM  

Why didn't the US nuke Viet Nam?

It's for this same reason they won't nuke Afghanistan.
2001-11-04 10:41:04 PM  
good. i hope it goes worse. its a dumb war anyway. farking idiots.

Smedley Butler, general in the military during the 30's had it right: war is a racket...read his reasons why.


"War is just a racket.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism."

You should read the whole thing on your own.
2001-11-04 10:43:16 PM  
besides, hitler was an elected official. who were we to bother him? i think that shows a great disrespect for the german.

An elected official who was rather smart, but a complete dumbass at the same time. He tried to basically take over the world, or at least Europe. and if you do recall we never declared war against germany we declared war against Japan after Pearl Harbor and Japan, Italy, and Germanywere the Axis Powers.

Hitler took control and then decided to kill all the Jews. Don't you think that shows a great disrespect towards them?

I'm not a Jew...just to clarify...but the only reason we got involved in WW2 and invading Normandy Beach was because they were doing the same shiat that they were doing in WW1.

We never declared war against Germany it was Japan. Now get your head out of your ass and brush up on your history.
2001-11-04 10:43:52 PM  
America - farking it up again. And Fb oh your such a hero! You obviously know everything! We shall all bow to Fb the know-it-all!
2001-11-04 10:53:32 PM  
Ihaveanitch: it deleted my sarcasm tag
2001-11-04 11:18:35 PM  
2001-11-04 11:20:38 PM  
Pmd...ohhh ok LMAO...I'm not usually into politics but i was like huh

Very good sarcasm, had me fooled! :o)
2001-11-05 12:47:45 AM  
Pigpen, do you think that destroying the towers in NY counts as crossing the US coastline?

I'd like to be a peacenik and all, but I'm thinking gas the bastards while they're in the caves/tunnels. Something ugly&new&with a halflife of a couple years that'll keep everyone out of the tunnels.. This isn't going to be done by xmas of this year or next year.

I can't believe we are going to hire the Russians to do our dirty work. No wonder we don't get no respect over there.
2001-11-05 01:55:33 AM  
WALKEN: omg. are you serious? using thermo nukes? you are actually considering nukes should be considered as a viable option??

*prays walkens post was sarcasm*
2001-11-05 03:23:11 AM  
In support of Woody's post (not that he needs it), I submit the following...

What to do if you happen upon a demonstration against our retaliation for the 9/11 Act of War...

1) Approach the demonstrator talking about "peace" and "no retaliation."

2) Engage in a brief conversation, and ask if military force is appropriate.

3) When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"

4) Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence."

5) When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.

6) When he gets back up to punch you, point out that it would be a mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would, "be awful and he should not cause more violence."

7) Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence.

8) Then, Punch him in the face again, Harder this time!

Repeat steps 5 through 8 until they understand that sometimes it is necessary to punch back!
2001-11-05 06:53:29 AM  
I like watching the rabid, impotent chairbourne commandos getting their knickers in a twist. I like to prod them and make them foam at the mouth even more.

2001-11-05 07:16:22 AM  
War on Terrrorism?

What about the half exploded car bomb in Birmingham UK last night? Anybody remember the real IRA?

This is insane. I don't have a solution.

I am just not happy.
2001-11-05 10:19:43 AM  
Interesting passage in the article about how Bush is trying not to appear like an interfering civilian because he used to criticize Clinton for doing so. Hello, dumbass- you're the farking President. You're the Commander In Chief of the entire American military. You're not a civilian.

fark it, just ask your dad what he would do, it's his fault you're in this war anyway.
2001-11-05 03:17:51 PM  
Glwtta : 300,000 against 40 to 45 thousand troops ? Are you kidding ? Fisrt off the Taleban have all ready lost two thosand troops by defectors and thousands have died all ready from the bombing campagnie . We only have about 2 to 3 hundred special ops in place .

Side note , the Russian chechnya war losses were 15 thousand russian KIA's compared to 1 hundred thousand chechen rebels , mercenaries and zubeks .

So your telling us here today that our full load of special ops , full regular Army and everything we have wouldnt complete this thing very quickly , and suffer lets say half ? if not severe #s of KIA's . Some millitary expert you are . Heh .
2001-11-05 09:41:45 PM  
Jonny:thousands have died all ready from the bombing campagnie

Oh really? Where are you getting this info? Did you just pull it from your ass?
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