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(SFGate)   Terrorism suspects won't say a word. Law enforcement considering 'sidestepping civil rights'   (sfgate.com) divider line
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5501 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Oct 2001 at 1:54 PM (20 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



159 Comments     (+0 »)


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2001-10-28 1:59:18 PM  
Extradition to an ally with weaker protections for civil liberties sounds like a good plan.

If worse comes to worse, the Sodium Pentathol isn't so bad.
 
2001-10-28 2:02:35 PM  
As long as they do not harm them physically then I am for it.
 
2001-10-28 2:03:01 PM  
I say send them, and numerous other prisoners to a work on a pig farm. Part of their civic duty.
 
2001-10-28 2:03:22 PM  
Yeah.. as long as they aren't hit, down with their civil rights!

Screw the Constitution! Let's just shoot them in the head like they do in China.
 
2001-10-28 2:03:47 PM  
Bmr68, I think that as long as it isn't permanent, I could be for it.

-fingernails grow back
 
2001-10-28 2:06:57 PM  
shiat... Beat'em, ....You know what?? don't waste the energy...Just Kill 'em
 
2001-10-28 2:09:40 PM  
Kill them all and let God sort them out, who cares if they did it or not? they have shifty beards and beedy eyes! We are also gonna be above judgement for this! Crusade! (you frigging morons that want to restrict liberty deserve to be put in a country without liberty)
 
2001-10-28 2:09:46 PM  
If we do this, the Taliban have won. America is lost.
 
2001-10-28 2:10:49 PM  
Peel em back.
 
2001-10-28 2:12:43 PM  
I am for making the Taliban a footnote in history.
 
2001-10-28 2:14:36 PM  
high voltage to the nutsack
 
2001-10-28 2:15:50 PM  
Another idea is extraditing the suspects to allied countries where security services sometimes use threats to family members or resort to torture.

I love this - you (general 'you' not specific) pride yourself on your humanitarian treatment, but think there is a diference between torturing someone and extraditing them to a country where they will get tortured?

If you feel you have no options left but torture (or whatever other 'options' they are considering) then do it and farking face up to it. None of this 'they are doing it, not us' bullshiat.
 
2001-10-28 2:19:11 PM  
or turn them over to Mossad. Them biatches will get medieval on their asses.
 
2001-10-28 2:21:06 PM  
Whatever happend to "innocent until proven guilty"? Seems they are guilty until proven innocent which is just fuel for the debate that America is becoming less of a free nation.

"He said there is a difference in employing a 'truth serum,' such as sodium pentothal, 'to try to get critical information when facing disaster, and beating a guy till he is senseless.'"

Actually there are many. One could easily say that both are bad because both are forced on against someone's will, ignoring all civil rights laws.

When I look back at the past weeks, I see simularities on how NAZI germany was founded. We, as Americans, must realize that because someone is taking flying lessons, or is Arab, or has a farking beard doesn't mean they are a Terrorist.

Remember when you are required to carry National ID cards, are stripped of your arms, and have no liberties left that you as the mass majority let it happen. I'd hate to see a country that won it's independence from an empire turn into something 10 times worse than the empire ever was.
 
2001-10-28 2:21:51 PM  
If we do this, the Taliban have won. America is lost.

While I agree with, what I think is, your sentiment on this - please save your sweeping generalizations.

There will, quiet clearly, be no 'winnders' in this, one way or another. And despite what Mr. Bush has been blathering on about for the last month - the Taliban isn't after destroying 'relentless freedom' or 'prolific civil liberties' in the US or anything of the sort, in fact I am willing to bet that they don't give a flying rats ass, whether or not the ATA gets passed, carnivores become common place, we get a UK style RIP Act or if we beat our "material witnesses" to a bloody pulp. Did you also notice that a person that is not even believed to have done anything wrong (material witness) can now be detained for an indefinite period of time?
 
2001-10-28 2:28:16 PM  
balonyflaps are you crazy???! we are becomeing the "evil empire" the U.S.S.R was during the cold war! I agree something needs to be done but side stepping the constitution or bill of rights is a short drop into hell!
this new "anti terrorism" bill is just an excuse and a thin cover for something I call martial law
 
2001-10-28 2:30:07 PM  
Oh, I'm sure the Taliban won't consider it victory, because they want to get rid of an enemy they hate. But, if this happens, if these other things hold muster, America is no longer the country that deserves my love and support. America will be gone, and a monster will be in its place.
 
fb-
2001-10-28 2:30:49 PM  
Stop being so farking melodramatic. Getting terrorists to talk is not a violation of civil rights and is certainly not the end of the universe.

These guys, especially one, aren't talking because they ARE TERRORISTS! The guy went to the same fight school as the other terrorists. He said to the instructior 'I don't want to learn about take offs of landings' and got a commercial hazmat transport license.

The guy is a terrorist. If they won't talk, I say we should bring the Israel Secret Service in to toture them until they do talk. Nobody can get a confession our of terrorist arabs like the Jews!
 
2001-10-28 2:32:11 PM  
Hmm. That would be terrible to violate their civil rights, even thought they're not US citizens. But, accidents do happen.
 
2001-10-28 2:33:21 PM  
Since they don't want to talk,you might as well slice off their tounges with deli slicers.
 
2001-10-28 2:34:43 PM  
So much for those rights involving not incriminating yourself.
 
2001-10-28 2:36:37 PM  
Fb-:
So what is the point of bringing in the Israel secret service if as you stated NOBODY CAN GET INFO OUT OF A TERRORIST?
 
2001-10-28 2:40:03 PM  
Fb-:
My appologies I read that wrong..I jumped in before I read the LIKE THE JEWS...but anyways I still do not think they will talk...remember these guy's are prepared to die for goodness sake...some flew planes into the WTC and did not blink an eyelid.
 
2001-10-28 2:40:54 PM  
While I am all for civil rights and all of that, I do belive that there are situations where Individuals NEED to Lose all of their rights... too farking bad, you play, you pay...Sentenced to death, fark death row....carry out the sentence within 24 hours.... HELL YES!
 
2001-10-28 2:41:36 PM  
and once people lose rights, they don't get them back that easily. Obvious fact.
 
2001-10-28 2:42:02 PM  
GOOD
 
2001-10-28 2:43:22 PM  
They are guilty because they won't talk. It's obvious they are hiding something. Just beat them all. That will get a confession out of them.
 
2001-10-28 2:44:20 PM  
[image from hci.stanford.edu too old to be available]
 
2001-10-28 2:44:33 PM  
'Truth serums' just induce a state of hypnosis. Things that *you want to do* become effortless, but you do not lose self control.

Also, information extracted through torture is often completely inaccurate, as they will say exactly what the investigators want to hear to get it to stop.
 
2001-10-28 2:45:27 PM  
Fb - did anyone ever explain to you the point of this whole 'civil rights' thing? It is precisely to protect people from being tortured because people like you are convinced that the are terrorists, on no grounds whatsoever.

And sure, cut off and feed their nads to them, threaten to, and do, kill their children to get them talking, and then go annhialte Afghanistan, Syria and Lybia - 90% of the world's population will see that as justifiable revenge. But don't call yourselves Leaders of the Free World while doing it; because that would be incongruous.
 
2001-10-28 2:45:59 PM  
Play "Achy Breaky Heart" over and over in their cells. They'll tell you Bin Laden's dicksize to stop it.
 
2001-10-28 2:46:25 PM  
Jersey, maybe they won't talk because they have nothing to tell, they're not involved. Beat them long enough and hard enough, and you still would get a confession though.
 
2001-10-28 2:46:55 PM  
What they need to do is bring in the cult de-programmers. Although preferably not Harvey Keitel in a red dress. That's too scary to subject them to.
 
2001-10-28 2:49:10 PM  
Should be img.fark.net
 
2001-10-28 2:52:22 PM  
but does a Truth Serum get the truth from people? or will the US use Hypno glasses for the job.
 
2001-10-28 2:53:21 PM  
Since when do non-american-citizens have civil rights?

Get info from them anyway you can, followed by summarily executing them, and then let the supreme court sort it out. In a year or two you will get a ruling and then you can say you are sorry and you won't ever do that again.
 
2001-10-28 2:54:59 PM  
Tsunami:

Hell Yes..!
 
2001-10-28 2:56:18 PM  
There are very few problems that cannot be solved by orders ending with 'or die.' - Alistair J.R. Young
 
2001-10-28 3:03:38 PM  
Terrorists in hospital smock on bed: I'll never te-ell!
 
2001-10-28 3:04:48 PM  
I'd use img.fark.net or img.fark.net


If they catch Osama - I hope they take him straight to Russia - they'll know what to do.
 
2001-10-28 3:05:27 PM  
the words "prisoners of war" keep coming to mind.

These young men are trained to withstand huge amounts of pain and suffering at the hands of captors, as was evidenced in the "handbook" for jihad that was released, in part, to the public awhile back. Some of the shiat in there was pretty severe.

Alas, at the risk of sounding cynical (which I really gave up about 30 years ago to become a zen devotee), terrorism cannot be stopped. Terrorist acts can be thwarted and terrorists can be killed but terrorism is here to stay. (It's always been here as well, but now we gave it a buzzword name)

How we deal with these guys, whether is is with kid gloves and "peace" or whether it is with spiked gloves and "denial of civil rights" (jeez)....I would not let the media know "how things are going".
 
2001-10-28 3:10:04 PM  
You know what you doing interrigate every Osama.
 
2001-10-28 3:11:38 PM  
"If there is another major attack on U.S. soil, the American public could let it happen," he said.
meaning admission of evidence gained under torture.

careful now. Yes indeed a time of passion and fear.
DO NOT give up your own civil liberties to your government.

Is your government benevolent and altruistic?

I, for one, do not think so.
 
2001-10-28 3:13:49 PM  
Well, you first need to speak the same language. Pain ain't shiat. Fear is what will break them.

From past experience, placing the bastard's head in a sack with hungry rats (or leeches) works nicely. So does strapping them to a long plank and then feeding it feet first into a fire.

But, however unfortunate, America does not have the political will to win this sort of war. But hey, it's happened before. Been there, done that. No big deal.
 
2001-10-28 3:18:14 PM  
I would like to propose that: there is no such thing as terrorism, only war. Or at the most, terrorism is the subset of war in which innocent civilians are killed, which means everyone has been guilty of it at one time or another. Therefore, the Tabliban and Al-Q'Nads are at war with US. If we want to torture a few terrorists to win this war, it's fine with me. Also, being willing to die an painless death [crashing plane into building], and resistance to torture are two entirly different things; they will talk... I say feed them X pork buns, and then give them plenty of water to drink. Start with 5, increase by 1 each cycle until they can't take it anymore, mwahahahahahahahahaha.
 
2001-10-28 3:19:35 PM  
Um, AngelTwo-Six, you don't live near me do you? That's kinda sick man (the been there done that part), though I agree on the fear factor.
 
2001-10-28 3:27:14 PM  
'sidestepping civil rights' , What civil rights? I want civil rights! I want the ability to put "Harmful" chemicals in my body, since when did the government own me personally? NORML.org
 
2001-10-28 3:29:00 PM  
The classic is always best- Chinese Water Torture!

-drip-
-drip-
-drip-
 
2001-10-28 3:31:19 PM  
MadCharlie

Probably not, shipmate.

It's a real stomach turner, yes, but it works. Sometimes you need to get to the skinny without the intermediate bullshiatting around. There's something about knowing that if you lie, you're gonna be drawing charcoal lines from dragging your ass on the ground.

The "people" we're dealing with now might look different, but they're the same sort of murderous bastards as the last time. It's time to put ears on strings again. fark all of the polite politically correct bullshiat.

Let's get out all of the pave pat blues we got and get us some payback.

Sat cong moi.

2-6
 
2001-10-28 3:35:02 PM  
NutSack:

Get off it.., This Thread is NOT about YOUR addictions...
 
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