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(NPR)   Welcome to Libertarian summer camp, where nobody needs a permit, food safety requires a handgun, and cash registers flow over with bits of gold and silver   (npr.org) divider line
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10530 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jul 2011 at 10:58 AM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2011-07-01 11:18:00 AM  

Jake Havechek: Why? Reading up on them also gives you 10 different explanations of what a libertarian is.


And all ten use logical fallacies or glittering generalities.
 
2011-07-01 11:18:11 AM  

bigdavediode: Weaver95: it's also not what libertarians believe in. what the article (sloppily written as it is) classifies as 'libertarian' is actually a gathering of fringe nutballs and 'free state' lunatics. there might be a couple of people in that mix who call themselves libertarian, but they're not actually representative of the libertarian party than the Republicans are actual conservatives.

Oh they're not TRUE Scotsmen. How did I know they wouldn't be true Scotsman? Maybe because that's always the fallback argument from Libertarians?

And it still carries no weight.


no, it's called 'free state project' and is in no way associated with the libertarian party. again - you'd know this if you bothered to read up on it. In fact, the free staters go out of their way to make the point that they're not 'libertarian' or associated with any particular political philosophy.
 
2011-07-01 11:18:28 AM  

Weaver95: bigdavediode: Weaver95: can you be specific as to what you consider to be a 'libertarian fairy tale'?

Well let's take the article. They believe that if they create little laminated cards with strips of silver in them, that the cards will actually contain the amount of silver printed on the card.

That's farking delusional.

it's also not what libertarians believe in. what the article (sloppily written as it is) classifies as 'libertarian' is actually a gathering of fringe nutballs and 'free state' lunatics. there might be a couple of people in that mix who call themselves libertarian, but they're not actually representative of the libertarian party than the Republicans are actual conservatives.

you'd know that if you bothered to actually read up on libertarians.


Ok, so what are the values of the "true" Libertarian party? Ron Paul CALLS himself a libertarian, but his values aren't really libertarian. And what values are at the fringes of the libertarian party? I bet l'd get a hundred different answers to this depending on who I ask.
 
2011-07-01 11:18:58 AM  

thismomentinblackhistory: Just heard this piece on the way into work. I had to laugh when the reporter noticed the eggs were USDA inspected. You can't find farm fresh, non-USDA inspected eggs in NH? I live in Toledo, OH, and the big ol' mean government has nothing to do with my eggs -- but that is a function of me buying food at farmer's markets, not for being a douchebag. I mean, a libertarian.


I have two dozen non-inspected eggs in my fridge. I bought them from the farmers market thingy in town. They set up across the street from the county courthouse.

/didn't have to pay in silver though
 
2011-07-01 11:19:20 AM  
Why do they need to do math? Why do they need to check on the current prices in USD of gold and silver? It seems to me they are still basing their trade values in dollars but just using gold and silver as the medium instead of paper green backs.
 
2011-07-01 11:19:45 AM  

jmsvrsn: These people make the Stupid Clown Pussy gathering look like a Nobel conference.


Hey, whoa... don't be insulting. Neither of them is worse than the other. Maybe.
 
2011-07-01 11:19:47 AM  

Jake Havechek:
Why? Reading up on them also gives you 10 different explanations of what a libertarian is.


you get the same problem with the Democrats. the only party that makes an extreme effort to enforce ideological purity is the Republican party...and we all know how that's turning out.
 
2011-07-01 11:20:40 AM  

Weaver95: no, it's called 'free state project' and is in no way associated with the libertarian party. again - you'd know this if you bothered to read up on it. In fact, the free staters go out of their way to make the point that they're not 'libertarian' or associated with any particular political philosophy.


Oh, so the Libertarian party of the US, Ron Paul and other esteemed leaders in the Libertarian party, along with most of their membership do NOT wish to implement multiple currencies?
 
2011-07-01 11:20:55 AM  
Amazing how terrified of freedom so many Farkers are. Always have to poke fun at people asserting their rights.

I so want to go to PorcFest when I move to New Hampshire. I'm currently building my hobby farm there, and I will be growing potatoes and tomatoes and corn and wheat and raising chickens and bees, and keeping horses and buying guns and building windmills and solar panels and it's going to KICK ASS! It will be a giant engineering wet dream. Lots of automated stuff, including a well equipped security droid I can chase the bears off with, as well as the zombies/beggars/raiders that will show up when the grid goes down...

And when the shiat hits the fan, my friends and family will come on up, we'll have a way cool, heavily armed Militia ("Mark's Militia"), I just have to decide if we're going with the Ninja outfits or some way cool military look (decisions, decisions...)
 
2011-07-01 11:20:59 AM  

Weaver95: filth: It's important to remember that ALL libertarians are woods-dwelling anarchists who hate legal tender. I guess that's why NPR reminds us of that every 2 months.

I can't wait for them to visit that well-known group of Democrats known as CPUSA or the Republican interest group known as The Freemen.

Every time the Republicans and Democrats f*ck up and do something REALLY bad, someone in the media does a hit piece on the libertarian party. in this case, they found a bunch of 'free state' nutballs, who are fringe libertarians at best.


This.

Actually, I was disappointed when I read the article. I was expecting something about Somolia.

The main function of the Libertarian Party has been to be a "L@@K! SHINY" object of media deflection from the shenanigans of the statist and corrupt Demoblicans and Republicrats.

The Libertarian Party will never win major offices because true Libertarians - being Libertarians - dislike political power. To be a success in any field you generally have to love your job. And in politicians this means loving the exercise of political power. Libertarians holding political power is an oxymoron.

Which is why certain individuals in the LP have opted for the boiling water and frog "organic" approach to changing regimes. Ultimately quite a bit more messy, but sure.
 
2011-07-01 11:21:12 AM  

Koalaesq:

Ok, so what are the values of the "true" Libertarian party? Ron Paul CALLS himself a libertarian, but his values aren't really libertarian. And what values are at the fringes of the libertarian party? I bet l'd get a hundred different answers to this depending on who I ask.


learn to google.
 
2011-07-01 11:21:45 AM  

Weaver95: bigdavediode: Weaver95: it's also not what libertarians believe in. what the article (sloppily written as it is) classifies as 'libertarian' is actually a gathering of fringe nutballs and 'free state' lunatics. there might be a couple of people in that mix who call themselves libertarian, but they're not actually representative of the libertarian party than the Republicans are actual conservatives.

Oh they're not TRUE Scotsmen. How did I know they wouldn't be true Scotsman? Maybe because that's always the fallback argument from Libertarians?

And it still carries no weight.

no, it's called 'free state project' and is in no way associated with the libertarian party. again - you'd know this if you bothered to read up on it. In fact, the free staters go out of their way to make the point that they're not 'libertarian' or associated with any particular political philosophy.


Ah, so they are libertarian but they're not Libertarians. Got it.
 
2011-07-01 11:21:45 AM  

Weaver95: bigdavediode: Weaver95: so are you ever going to tell us what it is you think libertarians believe in?

Absolutely. They believe in fairy tales. They do not believe in history books.

can you be specific as to what you consider to be a 'libertarian fairy tale'?


The libertarian fairy tale is "People will do the right thing if you leave them alone."
 
2011-07-01 11:22:02 AM  

Weaver95: you get the same problem with the Democrats. the only party that makes an extreme effort to enforce ideological purity is the Republican party...and we all know how that's turning out.


The Libertarians also enforce ideological purity by stating that anyone who doesn't hold their beliefs are against "freedom" and opposed to "liberty" (ie. heretics).
 
2011-07-01 11:22:02 AM  

max_pooper: Why do they need to do math? Why do they need to check on the current prices in USD of gold and silver? It seems to me they are still basing their trade values in dollars but just using gold and silver as the medium instead of paper green backs.


Fine, just go spoil all their fun. Why don't you just go tell them that Santa and the Easter bunny aren't real while you are at it.
 
2011-07-01 11:22:04 AM  
What's Libertarian salad?

Lettuce alone!
 
2011-07-01 11:22:52 AM  
This whole thread is a hasty generalization fail.

/ Yes, I do see the hypocrisy in my comment ;)
 
2011-07-01 11:22:56 AM  

bigdavediode: Weaver95: no, it's called 'free state project' and is in no way associated with the libertarian party. again - you'd know this if you bothered to read up on it. In fact, the free staters go out of their way to make the point that they're not 'libertarian' or associated with any particular political philosophy.

Oh, so the Libertarian party of the US, Ron Paul and other esteemed leaders in the Libertarian party, along with most of their membership do NOT wish to implement multiple currencies?


as far as I know, Ron Paul is a Republican, not a member of the Libertarian party. so you're question would be more accurate if you said "So the Republican party of the US, Ron Paul and other esteemed leaders in the Republican party, along with most of their membership do NOT wish to implement multiple currencies'
 
2011-07-01 11:22:59 AM  
Using gold or silver is no different than using pieces of paper. "Value" is nothing more than how much time and energy some people are willing to expend to acquire something else.
"Market value" and the value set on currencies is just the average of what those amounts of time and energy.

A lump of gold may be prettier than a printed piece of paper, and it may be more useful (in electronics, for instance), but it has no more inherent value.
 
2011-07-01 11:23:10 AM  

Weaver95: Jake Havechek:
Why? Reading up on them also gives you 10 different explanations of what a libertarian is.

you get the same problem with the Democrats. the only party that makes an extreme effort to enforce ideological purity is the Republican party...and we all know how that's turning out.


Everybody knows what a Democrat or a Republican is, but libertarians make up their own definitions of what they are.
 
2011-07-01 11:23:33 AM  

max_pooper: Why do they need to do math? Why do they need to check on the current prices in USD of gold and silver? It seems to me they are still basing their trade values in dollars but just using gold and silver as the medium instead of paper green backs.


Well the problem is that they have to use two currencies and have to have a method of converting.

And one fluctuates with respect to the other. There is no choice. Libertarians nationally want us to have fifty or more currencies all fluctuating with respect to the others.
 
2011-07-01 11:23:38 AM  

CrispFlows: 1. Smith, who is from England, decides to attend graduate school at Ohio State University. He has never been to the US before. The day after he arrives, he is walking back from an orientation session and sees two white (albino) squirrels chasing each other around a tree. In his next letter home, he tells his family that American squirrels are white.


There was only one albino squirrel, and a hawk ate it (new window)
 
2011-07-01 11:23:49 AM  

bigdavediode: Elfich: And everyone was stopping to check the price on silver on their cell phones before going to the silver exchange. Nope, we don't use the dollar here - WE USE SILVER!

Exactly. Hilarious. It's like a perfect microcosm of the problems of a bazillion currencies (what's dollars in Usbekian silver-snifters? How many silvcoins is that?)

Exactly the problems that the country already went through when each state banks would issue their own currencies.

But God forbid these guys ever read a history book.


Get that man a silver cupie doll.

/Not sure how many internets that would be. I have to check the exchange rate.
 
2011-07-01 11:24:27 AM  
Libertarianism and other simplistic, individualist philosophies are blind to and incapable of solving the biggest and most pressing problems facing humanity today (new window).

Libertarianism is Social Darwinism in disguise. (new window)
 
2011-07-01 11:24:46 AM  

bigdavediode: YixilTesiphon: abb3w: /whoops
//preview is your friend

[wp.mises.org image 532x799]

That's interesting because that one is not at all funny, while the first version was.


Conservative humor is an oxymoron.
 
2011-07-01 11:24:46 AM  
wow. all our fark authoritarians came out of the woodwork!

whew! too much derp even for me to shovel back. so...I leave you to it then. keep hating something that none of you can even define. which is pretty weird and mildly scary...but hey, that's authoritarians for you.
 
2011-07-01 11:24:51 AM  

abb3w: [www.leftycartoons.com image 640x960]
/whoops
//preview is your friend


The Left always shows you what it is afraid of.
 
2011-07-01 11:25:09 AM  
This is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. And Trigg Palin gave the commencement speech at my university this year.
 
2011-07-01 11:25:34 AM  

Koalaesq: party? Ron Paul CALLS himself a libertarian, but his values aren't really libertarian. And what values are at the fringes of the libertarian


Because the Democrats and Republicans are completely united groups with shared values. I assume you support the Patriot Act then? The most appealing part of libertarianism to me, is that it doesn't matter what your values are, because you can't inflict them on me.
 
2011-07-01 11:25:58 AM  

Weaver95: as far as I know, Ron Paul is a Republican, not a member of the Libertarian party.


Well I'm sure you'll deny that he's a leader of Libertarians and thus the party, but that doesn't matter.

Are Libertarians, in general, for a mosh pit of currencies or are they not?
 
2011-07-01 11:26:32 AM  

Weaver95: bigdavediode: Weaver95: no, it's called 'free state project' and is in no way associated with the libertarian party. again - you'd know this if you bothered to read up on it. In fact, the free staters go out of their way to make the point that they're not 'libertarian' or associated with any particular political philosophy.

Oh, so the Libertarian party of the US, Ron Paul and other esteemed leaders in the Libertarian party, along with most of their membership do NOT wish to implement multiple currencies?

as far as I know, Ron Paul is a Republican, not a member of the Libertarian party. so you're question would be more accurate if you said "So the Republican party of the US, Ron Paul and other esteemed leaders in the Republican party, along with most of their membership do NOT wish to implement multiple currencies'


But he's not a true Republican.
 
2011-07-01 11:26:43 AM  
I can see why there's so much scorn for Libertarian ideas, seeing as how every single one of them was espoused by either a Republican or a Democrat.

Mixing ideas from the two parties?!? Farking idiots.
 
2011-07-01 11:26:56 AM  

James F. Campbell: Libertarianism and other simplistic, individualist philosophies are blind to and incapable of solving the biggest and most pressing problems facing humanity today (new window).

Libertarianism is Social Darwinism in disguise. (new window)


You know how I know you know nothing about Libertarianism?
 
2011-07-01 11:27:27 AM  

max_pooper: Why do they need to do math? Why do they need to check on the current prices in USD of gold and silver? It seems to me they are still basing their trade values in dollars but just using gold and silver as the medium instead of paper green backs.


This. They've pegged the gold standard to the dollar. Ell. Oh. farking. Ell.
 
2011-07-01 11:27:41 AM  

Satanicpuppy: That's interesting because that one is not at all funny, while the first version was.

Conservative humor is an oxymoron.


Seems to be. There are definite brain differences where they can't seem to recognize higher forms of humor.
 
2011-07-01 11:27:52 AM  

bigdavediode: Weaver95: as far as I know, Ron Paul is a Republican, not a member of the Libertarian party.

Well I'm sure you'll deny that he's a leader of Libertarians and thus the party, but that doesn't matter.

Are Libertarians, in general, for a mosh pit of currencies or are they not?


I dunno, the only libertarians I know want to smoke pot legally and be free to do just about whatever they want as long as they can get away with it.

Oh, and then they follow up with some "As long as I don't impact another's freedom to do the same thing".

It's no way to run a civilization.
 
2011-07-01 11:28:13 AM  

Mentat: Camper: Help help! Little Billy is drowning! Where's the lifeguard?

Libertarian: There is no lifeguard.

Camper: What???

Libertarian: Little Billy needs to learn to swim on his own. If we keep sending lifeguards into the water to bail him out, he'll never learn how to swim on his own.

Camper: But he's dying!

Libertarian: It's for his own good.


Sounds more like a cautionary tale against being an irresponsible parent to me.

/Nothing about libertarianism prevents you from hiring a certified lifeguard.
//Even the certifications can be private.
 
2011-07-01 11:28:26 AM  

Elfich


Get that man a silver cupie doll.


Kewpie.
 
2011-07-01 11:28:28 AM  

Weaver95: wow. all our fark authoritarians came out of the woodwork!

whew! too much derp even for me to shovel back. so...I leave you to it then. keep hating something that none of you can even define. which is pretty weird and mildly scary...but hey, that's authoritarians for you.


Fool, there are problems that can't be solved at the individual level. What's the libertarian solution for ocean acidification, air pollution, or depleted fish stocks?
 
2011-07-01 11:28:35 AM  

Snarfangel: as far as I know, Ron Paul is a Republican, not a member of the Libertarian party. so you're question would be more accurate if you said "So the Republican party of the US, Ron Paul and other esteemed leaders in the Republican party, along with most of their membership do NOT wish to implement multiple currencies'

But he's not a true Republican.


Bing! Bingbingbingbing! You win my Internet back!
 
2011-07-01 11:28:40 AM  

bigdavediode: I love that Burning Man now has an admission charge.


It is getting somewhat more commercial, but man, I went there after my nephew died and took some amazing peyote and I finally got it.
 
2011-07-01 11:29:05 AM  
"We'll regulate him," he says. "If he poisons me, I won't buy his food. And he'll be done."

That sounds like a recipe for anarchy to me. Let's just bring back dueling.
 
2011-07-01 11:29:42 AM  

meat0918: I dunno, the only libertarians I know want to smoke pot legally and be free to do just about whatever they want as long as they can get away with it.


Well to answer the question, yes, generally Libertarians and the Libertarian party want a massive fail worth of currencies.
 
2011-07-01 11:29:43 AM  

Weaver95: Koalaesq:

Ok, so what are the values of the "true" Libertarian party? Ron Paul CALLS himself a libertarian, but his values aren't really libertarian. And what values are at the fringes of the libertarian party? I bet l'd get a hundred different answers to this depending on who I ask.

learn to google.


Uh huh.... so... how is that any different than what the guys in the article believe?

Oh, it isn't.
 
2011-07-01 11:29:45 AM  

Weaver95: Jake Havechek:
Why? Reading up on them also gives you 10 different explanations of what a libertarian is.

you get the same problem with the Democrats. the only party that makes an extreme effort to enforce ideological purity is the Republican party...and we all know how that's turning out.


Usually the party that relishes authoritarian policies tend have a enforced perspective...

Any group that doesn't like a central authority are likely to have a fragmentation of ideologue and policies. Fragmentation is actually a good sign, if one thinks about it; The diverse amounts of ideas and policies are more flexible about change.
 
2011-07-01 11:29:59 AM  

Weaver95: Koalaesq:

Ok, so what are the values of the "true" Libertarian party? Ron Paul CALLS himself a libertarian, but his values aren't really libertarian. And what values are at the fringes of the libertarian party? I bet l'd get a hundred different answers to this depending on who I ask.

learn to google.


FTFA: While energy is needed to fuel a modern society, government should not be subsidizing any particular form of energy. We oppose all government control of energy pricing, allocation, and production.

As always, libertarians ignore first grade economics (the existence of economic externalities) and therefore guarantee that the market, which is the only thing controlling their economy, will fail.

Nice. How are these people any less stupid than these morons running around the woods trying to figure out how many dollars their silver is worth?
 
2011-07-01 11:30:44 AM  
I have a strong suspicion that libertarians are all morons .. though it's not polite to say so in person.

They won't pay for roads, or food inspections, or building-inspectors, or water-supply, or schools, or prisons.
They don't mind racism 'it's not the Guvmint's business..' etc.
The world they prefer is basically 'kill-or-be-killed'

Their 'market-solutions' to these issues would be an infinite hassle, if not unworkable, and they'd take years to work themselves out - and the solution would look exactly like 'Guvmint' & they'd hate that too.
Meanwhile scam artists would descend on them like vultures on a pen of bunny rabbits.

Worse, large corporations don't even want this kind of chaos. The market they worship would degrade to tiny companies selling simple products - the 'free' environment would be too risky for anything more.
They'd kill the market they worship - by neglect.

So again, their stupid.
Let them set up a colonies in the Canadian forest, just so we can watch self-destruct. They'd come back & continue to biatch & moan, but it would be entertaining.
 
2011-07-01 11:30:56 AM  

Weaver95: wow. all our fark authoritarians came out of the woodwork!

whew! too much derp even for me to shovel back. so...I leave you to it then. keep hating something that none of you can even define. which is pretty weird and mildly scary...but hey, that's authoritarians for you.


Yea, yea everyone who doesn't agree with you is deluded or wrong. Call them some names and wander off, feeling smug and superior.
 
2011-07-01 11:31:53 AM  

halfof33: bigdavediode: I love that Burning Man now has an admission charge.

It is getting somewhat more commercial, but man, I went there after my nephew died and took some amazing peyote and I finally got it.


Got what? Crabs?

It's a bunch of people all trying to prove they are cooler than each other. It might as well be high school.
 
2011-07-01 11:32:30 AM  

Thagnut:
Worse, large corporations don't even want this kind of chaos. The market they worship would degrade to tiny companies selling simple products - the 'free' environment would be too risky for anything more.
They'd kill the market they worship - by neglect.


Hey, maybe there is something good about this "libertarianism" thing.
 
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