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(The New York Times)   First they came for Green 3, and I didn't speak out as I did not eat Jello. They came for Red 40, and I didn't speak out as I did not eat Froot Loops. When they came for Yellow Number 6, Cheetos, there was no one left to speak out   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Asinine  
•       •       •

15520 clicks;  Favorite

220 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2011-04-04 12:47:12 AM  
First off, brilliant headline. I hope this isn't a repeat.

Second off...well, duh they don't taste as good when they're not Yellow #6...your senses work together to create a complex impression of every thing that you experience.
 
2011-04-04 12:58:42 AM  
As long as they don't come for Black #1, I'm cool.
 
2011-04-04 01:09:56 AM  

Uncle Wiggly: As long as they don't come for Black #1, I'm cool.


Sounds like jury duty.
 
2011-04-04 01:34:34 AM  
Taste the (artificially colored) rainbow
 
2011-04-04 01:38:03 AM  

jaylectricity: well, duh they don't taste as good when they're not Yellow #6...your senses work together to create a complex impression of every thing that you experience.


Blue waffles agree.
 
2011-04-04 01:39:49 AM  
Keep away from my Blue 5. I love giving a bunch of it to my friends on St. Patrick's day and hearing what happens later on in the day.
 
2011-04-04 01:40:43 AM  
Nothing wrong with red 40, unless you're Jewish. They tend to now call it "carmine extract" on labels now, to get Away from the synthetic sounding name. It's just bug juice. There's another red food dye, forget what they call it in food, I know it as lac. Also a bug extract. I'd trust the bug extracts more than some of the crazy synthetics.
 
2011-04-04 01:41:19 AM  
As someone who is sensitive to red 40, goddammit so much. They put it in freaking everything, from cheerios to biscuits to apple juice. Even things that aren't even red. And in products I've been buying for years wherein they've just started adding it in, for no apparent reason, so I have a reaction and scream out "when then hell did they start putting red 40 in THIS?", and only that tin has red 40 in the ingredients, but none of the other tins' ingredient lists of allegedly precisely the same thing. And I keep running into it when I go out to eat, too to the point where I frequently question going out to eat at all. GHGHGHGHGHH!

There are other artificial colors out there that do exactly the same thing; they're just marginally more expensive. But these are the same people buying lead toys from China, so who cares about our kids' brains?
 
2011-04-04 01:41:27 AM  
Why the fark do we need any of these again?

Oh yeah- if we didn't use them, the larger populace would realize that what we eat is not produced from the natural ingredients supposed at all, but reprocessed corn flavored to taste like those natural things.


\This post brought to you by Kraft Guacamole.
\\Now with 100% less avocados!
\\\Yes, it exists. Or did.
 
2011-04-04 01:44:43 AM  

LincolnLogolas: Nothing wrong with red 40, unless you're Jewish. They tend to now call it "carmine extract" on labels now, to get Away from the synthetic sounding name. It's just bug juice. There's another red food dye, forget what they call it in food, I know it as lac. Also a bug extract. I'd trust the bug extracts more than some of the crazy synthetics.


Red 40 is the synthetic stuff, formerly made from coal tar and now made from petroleum. Carmine is labeled simply as carmine, or as natural red 40, and it's a fair bit safer then most of the crap we pump into things.

It also has a long, illustrious, and fascinating history. Pick up the book "A Perfect Red".
 
2011-04-04 01:45:07 AM  

Sim Tree: As someone who is sensitive to red 40, goddammit so much. They put it in freaking everything, from cheerios to biscuits to apple juice. Even things that aren't even red. And in products I've been buying for years wherein they've just started adding it in, for no apparent reason, so I have a reaction and scream out "when then hell did they start putting red 40 in THIS?", and only that tin has red 40 in the ingredients, but none of the other tins' ingredient lists of allegedly precisely the same thing. And I keep running into it when I go out to eat, too to the point where I frequently question going out to eat at all. GHGHGHGHGHH!

There are other artificial colors out there that do exactly the same thing; they're just marginally more expensive. But these are the same people buying lead toys from China, so who cares about our kids' brains?


They should use a marginally more expensive artificial coloring because you are allergic?
 
2011-04-04 01:45:21 AM  
I prefer all my food gray and colorless. Like in The Matrix.

Won't someone think of the children?
 
2011-04-04 01:45:26 AM  
img543.imageshack.usView Full Size

Standing by.
 
2011-04-04 01:45:57 AM  

cptjeff: LincolnLogolas: Nothing wrong with red 40, unless you're Jewish. They tend to now call it "carmine extract" on labels now, to get Away from the synthetic sounding name. It's just bug juice. There's another red food dye, forget what they call it in food, I know it as lac. Also a bug extract. I'd trust the bug extracts more than some of the crazy synthetics.

Red 40 is the synthetic stuff, formerly made from coal tar and now made from petroleum. Carmine is labeled simply as carmine, or as natural red 40, and it's a fair bit safer then most of the crap we pump into things.

It also has a long, illustrious, and fascinating history. Pick up the book "A Perfect Red".


Sorry, that should be "natural red 4", not natural red 40.
 
2011-04-04 01:48:05 AM  
Can someone cut and paste the article I blocked cookies from NYtimes and they will not let me view anything now
 
2011-04-04 01:48:22 AM  
Kraft Macaroni and Cheese Organic White Cheddar

this is brilliant marketing. get rid of the artificial color and save money PLUS charge more because the label says organic.

i tend to doubt just how "organic" most products with that label really are.
 
2011-04-04 01:50:13 AM  
cbc.caView Full Size


RED GREEN
STANDING BY

 
Juc
2011-04-04 01:50:27 AM  
I'm honestly ok with the removal of a lot of food colourings.
I don't really know why, but some of that stuff really screws certain people up.

I used to have a neighbour whose kid would be literally bouncing off the walls, or thrashing around screaming at the top of his lungs, if he had any red no6.

Speaking of which, if anybody needs to make a drug that induces assholery, I know just the chemical.
 
Juc
2011-04-04 01:53:35 AM  
err, red 40 I think it was actually.
 
2011-04-04 01:55:24 AM  

jaylectricity: Uncle Wiggly: As long as they don't come for Black #1, I'm cool.

Sounds like jury duty.


thenamelessdead.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
(pops to short version)
Will Haunt the s#@t out of them if they so much think about it!

/RIP Pete Steele!
 
2011-04-04 01:56:34 AM  

Uncle Wiggly: As long as they don't come for Black #1, I'm cool.


Obama?
 
2011-04-04 01:59:09 AM  
This is insane. If 'natural' products were subjected to the same standards as 'artificial' ones, bread, milk and potatoes would be classified as deadly poisons.
 
2011-04-04 02:01:05 AM  

forteblast: Uncle Wiggly: As long as they don't come for Black #1, I'm cool.

Obama?


He's 1/2 black.
 
2011-04-04 02:01:12 AM  
csmonitor.comView Full Size

CODE OF CONDUCT
"ONE: All public disruption and
acts of vandalism are to cease
immediately."

"TWO: All citizens of Pleasantville
are to treat one another in a
courteous and "pleasant" manner ..."

"THREE: The area commonly known as
Lover's Lane as well as the
Pleasantville Public Library shall
be closed until further notice."

"FOUR: The only permissible
recorded music shall be the
following: Pat Boone, Johnny
Mathis, Perry Como, Jack Jones,
The marches of John Phillips
Souza or the Star Spangled
Banner. In no event shall any
music be tolerated that is not of
a temperate or "pleasant" nature."

"FIVE: There shall be no public
sale of umbrellas or preparation
for inclement weather of any kind."

"SIX: No bedframe or mattress may
be sold measuring more than 38
inches wide."

"SEVEN: The only permissible exterior
paint colors shall be BLACK, WHITE or
GRAY, despite the recent availability
of certain alternatives."

"EIGHT: All elementary and high
school curriculums shall teach the
"non-changist" view of history--
emphasizing "continuity" over
"alteration."
 
2011-04-04 02:02:36 AM  
I prefer tumeric, parsley, and paprika as my coloring agents.

/ Seriously... Tumeric will turn you and everything you love yellow.
 
2011-04-04 02:04:35 AM  
Give me Green #3
And Blue #2
It'll all come together
in the artificial flavor stew
 
2011-04-04 02:09:28 AM  
Red two standing by.

stories.the-ridges.netView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 02:10:24 AM  

Gigantos: Keep away from my Blue 5. I love giving a bunch of it to my friends on St. Patrick's day and hearing what happens later on in the day.


I hope I have a kindred spirit.

I used to manage big chain stores. I won't mention the name, but it rhymes with Hall*Fart.

I was walking the bakery one morning and the bakery manager wondered out loud if drinking straight shots of that dye they used in icing would affect your urine color.

I drank blue, he did red.

No difference in color to our pee, even hours later. Sad face.

But the next morning, after I had even forgotten about it, I produced the brightest green excrement in the history of man.

I made my now ex-wife look at it. And even though she is a tightass about that kind of thing, she broke out laughing and asked me what the hell I was thinking.

CSB
 
2011-04-04 02:11:12 AM  
Every time I eat the nachos at Damon's, my poop turns green.

True story.
 
2011-04-04 02:11:15 AM  
I thought they used to color some stuff with the blood of virgins.

Why can't they do that anymo - oh wait. nevermind
 
2011-04-04 02:13:03 AM  

blackheart666: forteblast: Uncle Wiggly: As long as they don't come for Black #1, I'm cool.

Obama?

He's 1/2 black.


I know that look on Michelle's face. I'm guessing I know which half.
 
2011-04-04 02:13:21 AM  

nobodyUwannaknow: I thought they used to color some stuff with the blood of virgins.


1.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 02:13:25 AM  

That Guy in the Dos Equis Commercials: Gigantos: Keep away from my Blue 5. I love giving a bunch of it to my friends on St. Patrick's day and hearing what happens later on in the day.

I hope I have a kindred spirit.

I used to manage big chain stores. I won't mention the name, but it rhymes with Hall*Fart.

I was walking the bakery one morning and the bakery manager wondered out loud if drinking straight shots of that dye they used in icing would affect your urine color.

I drank blue, he did red.

No difference in color to our pee, even hours later. Sad face.

But the next morning, after I had even forgotten about it, I produced the brightest green excrement in the history of man.

I made my now ex-wife look at it. And even though she is a tightass about that kind of thing, she broke out laughing and asked me what the hell I was thinking.

CSB


Pics or it didn't happen.
 
2011-04-04 02:14:32 AM  
Why wasn't there any mention of sugar content in the article? Seems like food marketed to kids with lots of dye in it will be loaded with sugar as well. The linked article says the mom completely removed artificial dye from her kids diet and he really calmed down but didn't say how. If she just got rid of all the sugar loaded junk food, well duh. They also mention it's for kids who already have behavior disorders, so I'm guessing after this they'll start working on banning cartoons because it makes the little prince violent.

/in my day all that was called being a kid
//little porkers need as much energy as they can get
 
2011-04-04 02:18:44 AM  

jst3p: Sim Tree: As someone who is sensitive to red 40, goddammit so much. They put it in freaking everything, from cheerios to biscuits to apple juice. Even things that aren't even red. And in products I've been buying for years wherein they've just started adding it in, for no apparent reason, so I have a reaction and scream out "when then hell did they start putting red 40 in THIS?", and only that tin has red 40 in the ingredients, but none of the other tins' ingredient lists of allegedly precisely the same thing. And I keep running into it when I go out to eat, too to the point where I frequently question going out to eat at all. GHGHGHGHGHH!

There are other artificial colors out there that do exactly the same thing; they're just marginally more expensive. But these are the same people buying lead toys from China, so who cares about our kids' brains?

They should use a marginally more expensive artificial coloring because you are allergic?



It's not just me, but a whole class of people, and possibly most of the children on the entire planet, but the side effects are subtle, and slow to onset, so are mostly ignored. Nevermind that several other industrialized nations have banned red 40 outright, and we can't even get an allergy warning in the corner.

Sorry it's just the article has got on my bad side; it's a prime example of "did not do the research"; they merely took an obviously biased press release and rewrote it as an article, saying that color adds value to foods. Well yes, but there are other colors that aren't actually poisonous, which could be equally valuable in foods, which the article itself completely ignores! As if any food that was not absolutely neon hot pink would be no good; which is why all our food today looks similar to 'froot-roll-ups'. It's madness! (Sparta).

Then at the end, instead of approaching this argument using any logic whatsoever, they only quote people saying 'Well, if we hadn't started using red 40 sprinkles, it wouldn't be a cupcake'. If they'd quoted someone saying 'well, we used to have a wheelchair ramp, but we took it out so the front looks pretty' they'd have his head on a platter! Yet they've effectively banned an equal portion of their potential customers, and then stand around saying "duh", wondering why their sales suddenly drop.
 
2011-04-04 02:18:47 AM  
No blood for sprinkles!
 
2011-04-04 02:20:03 AM  

GranoblasticMan: Pics or it didn't happen.


This was pre-Blackberry days, or else there would be ample documentation.

You owe it to yourself. Down two ounces of blue food dye, and let the game come to you.
 
2011-04-04 02:25:15 AM  

That Guy in the Dos Equis Commercials: GranoblasticMan: Pics or it didn't happen.

This was pre-Blackberry days, or else there would be ample documentation.

You owe it to yourself. Down two ounces of blue food dye, and let the game come to you.


First time it happened to me was when I was a kid and had a Black Cherry Slushie at BK. I remember going to the bathroom that night, and then thinking I had to go to the hospital. I was pretty freaked out.
 
2011-04-04 02:28:05 AM  

That Guy in the Dos Equis Commercials: GranoblasticMan: Pics or it didn't happen.

This was pre-Blackberry days, or else there would be ample documentation.

You owe it to yourself. Down two ounces of blue food dye, and let the game come to you.


Oh no thank you. I've been around long enough to know not to do something someone told me on the internet (new window).
 
2011-04-04 02:28:31 AM  
FFS, is there any way to get the damn scare crows at "The Center for Science in the Public Interest", to shut the hell up and leave us the fark alone!
 
2011-04-04 02:31:24 AM  

WI241TH: Why wasn't there any mention of sugar content in the article? Seems like food marketed to kids with lots of dye in it will be loaded with sugar as well. The linked article says the mom completely removed artificial dye from her kids diet and he really calmed down but didn't say how. If she just got rid of all the sugar loaded junk food, well duh. They also mention it's for kids who already have behavior disorders, so I'm guessing after this they'll start working on banning cartoons because it makes the little prince violent.

/in my day all that was called being a kid
//little porkers need as much energy as they can get



There's a difference somewhere.

My brother had an allergy to Sunset Yellow and Tartrazineand they would send him absolutely mental.

Yes, he was a problem child anyway and it wasn't the only trigger, *but* if you gave him green candy instead of yellow/orange candy he was fine. You could pack him to the eyeballs with sugar, and yes he'd get a bit hyper, but it was nothing like the running-screaming-crying-shouting-jumping-bawling monster he'd turn into given something with sunset yellow or tartrazine in it.

So these things do happen. I'm not going to get into any sort of natural/artifical debate, but sometimes these colours do do things over and above "being a kid"
 
2011-04-04 02:32:19 AM  
Or we could just start eating real food, and that includes snack food, rather than just lying to ourselves about all these dyes and scary sounding additives being perfectly safe to eat. Because they would never put anything in food that might cause health problems right? What we need more than banning food coloring are parents who are smart enough to decide that a product with items on an ingredient list like Red 40 or brominated soybean oil might not be the best thing to eat. Red Velvet cupcakes are typically colored with massive amounts of red dye while there are perfectly harmless sources of color like beets or strawberries, yet no one has a problem with this?

I don't eat anything with dyes or strange additives anymore(to my knowledge) and I don't think I'm missing out on taste at all. As far as the taste issue, it seems that everyone has burned out their taste buds on all that highly processed snack food so they don't have any chemical taste sensation left - it's all psychological now. Once you actually start eliminating this crap from your diet you start to taste food as it is and you don't need a long list of awful sounding ingredients for snack food that tastes good.

Here's a thought - if something that is supposedly created from food that does have color, like corn and cheese, turns out GRAY without food coloring, do you really think you should be eating it?
 
2011-04-04 02:32:58 AM  
you lack discipline (new window)
 
2011-04-04 02:34:43 AM  
I want to talk about pickles for a minute. I used to work at Steinfeld's and man-o'-man did the blanching process make some of those cukes look like larvae. They would come out milky green/grey and limp, really unappealing in so many ways. The smell was atrocious, but that's another story.
It amazed me that once you added the brine and let them sit they'd magically change from what looked like a giant maggot, to something that people actually wanted to eat.
 
2011-04-04 02:34:58 AM  

WI241TH: Why wasn't there any mention of sugar content in the article? Seems like food marketed to kids with lots of dye in it will be loaded with sugar as well. The linked article says the mom completely removed artificial dye from her kids diet and he really calmed down but didn't say how. If she just got rid of all the sugar loaded junk food, well duh.


Probably because there is very little empirical evidence that sugar causes hyperactivity, ESPECIALLY in children with ADHD (but MUCH evidence that any perceived change in behaviour is due to the EXPECTATION that sugar will cause hyperactivity).
 
2011-04-04 02:35:33 AM  

Gigantos: That Guy in the Dos Equis Commercials: GranoblasticMan: Pics or it didn't happen.

This was pre-Blackberry days, or else there would be ample documentation.

You owe it to yourself. Down two ounces of blue food dye, and let the game come to you.

First time it happened to me was when I was a kid and had a Black Cherry Slushie at BK. I remember going to the bathroom that night, and then thinking I had to go to the hospital. I was pretty freaked out.


The guy who drank the red fired off a Pringle's can that was jet black, which seems to be a sure sign of imminent death. He ran around like a retard on pudding day until he remembered what we had done.
 
2011-04-04 02:38:34 AM  
came for the fat chinese kid at mcdonalds

/leaving disappoint
 
2011-04-04 02:39:46 AM  

Sim Tree: As someone who is sensitive to red 40, goddammit so much. They put it in freaking everything, from cheerios to biscuits to apple juice. Even things that aren't even red. And in products I've been buying for years wherein they've just started adding it in, for no apparent reason, so I have a reaction and scream out "when then hell did they start putting red 40 in THIS?", and only that tin has red 40 in the ingredients, but none of the other tins' ingredient lists of allegedly precisely the same thing. And I keep running into it when I go out to eat, too to the point where I frequently question going out to eat at all. GHGHGHGHGHH!

There are other artificial colors out there that do exactly the same thing; they're just marginally more expensive. But these are the same people buying lead toys from China, so who cares about our kids' brains?


I feel for you. I'm sensitive to Yellow 5 and Yellow 6, and suspect but haven't confirmed a sensitivity to Red 40. I forgot to check my burger for pickles last week and swallowed a corner off a pickle slice before I saw it. Ruined my whole afternoon. Headache and confusion mostly. If I had eaten more, it would have given me a full blown migraine.


img97.imageshack.usView Full Size

Red 40 standing by.

 
2011-04-04 02:40:25 AM  
farm4.static.flickr.comView Full Size


Big Red
Standing By

 
2011-04-04 02:40:56 AM  

jingks: jaylectricity: well, duh they don't taste as good when they're not Yellow #6...your senses work together to create a complex impression of every thing that you experience.

Blue waffles agree.


I'm not going to Google that, learned my lesson the first time, what has been seen etc.
 
2011-04-04 02:44:43 AM  
img.rp.vhd.meView Full Size

Red
Checking In

 
2011-04-04 02:45:06 AM  
 
2011-04-04 02:46:25 AM  
Just as long as they don't fark up the hot cheetos with lime. Make em gray. They all taste the same in the dark.
 
2011-04-04 02:47:45 AM  

cptjeff: LincolnLogolas: Nothing wrong with red 40, unless you're Jewish. They tend to now call it "carmine extract" on labels now, to get Away from the synthetic sounding name. It's just bug juice. There's another red food dye, forget what they call it in food, I know it as lac. Also a bug extract. I'd trust the bug extracts more than some of the crazy synthetics.

Red 40 is the synthetic stuff, formerly made from coal tar and now made from petroleum. Carmine is labeled simply as carmine, or as natural red 40, and it's a fair bit safer then most of the crap we pump into things.

It also has a long, illustrious, and fascinating history. Pick up the book "A Perfect Red".


THIS is the exact reason I came in here, and it blows my mind that somebody else beat me to it.

/free cochineal in my front yard; come and get it
//ugly little bugs...
 
2011-04-04 02:48:46 AM  

jessicat: They all taste the same in the dark.


That's what I said last night.
 
2011-04-04 02:49:02 AM  
t0.gstatic.comView Full Size


Red Buttons
Standing by




This could be a problem with skittles
 
2011-04-04 02:50:22 AM  
I'm detecting a lot of bullshiat in this thread from people who have made up diseases giving sensitivity to food dyes that have been around for >100 years.
 
2011-04-04 02:50:53 AM  

That Guy in the Dos Equis Commercials: The guy who drank the red fired off a Pringle's can that was jet black, which seems to be a sure sign of imminent death. He ran around like a retard on pudding day until he remembered what we had done.


One of these?

img853.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 02:51:49 AM  
i2.listal.comView Full Size

ELLIS REDDING
STANDING BY

 
2011-04-04 02:53:38 AM  

MadSkillz: I'm detecting a lot of bullshiat in this thread from people who have made up diseases giving sensitivity to food dyes that have been around for >100 years.



Then go read up on it, because there has been scientific research and sensitivity to these things has been shown.

Start on the pages I linked above, Tartrazine and Sunset Yellow.
 
2011-04-04 02:54:32 AM  
For comparison:

img806.imageshack.usView Full Size

img231.imageshack.usView Full Size

img713.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 02:56:25 AM  
images3.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size


Simply Red, standing by
 
2011-04-04 02:57:02 AM  

Hagbardr: One of these?


No. His stool was solid black.
 
2011-04-04 02:59:35 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size


Redd Fox, standing by
 
2011-04-04 03:01:53 AM  

Copper Spork: This is insane. If 'natural' products were subjected to the same standards as 'artificial' ones, bread, milk and potatoes would be classified as deadly poisons.


Yes. I'm starting to get very, very tired of the retarded antics of the CSPI assholes. They're the jerks that killed off the old fashioned movie popcorn. They seriously need to DIAF.
 
2011-04-04 03:06:27 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Taste the (artificially colored) rainbow


I love going to the supermarket and seeing:

CHOCOLATE FLAVORED CHIP COOKIES

and

JUICY JUICE (CONTAINS NO JUICE)
 
2011-04-04 03:06:47 AM  
You know it's trolly time when someone disparages CSPI, the Center for Science in the Public Interest, as busybodies or buttinskies or, heaven forfend, the "Food Police" (the term that the restaurant industry came up with 20 years ago when CSPI dared to actually take their food to labs and tell people what was in it).

But truly, the "S" does stand for Science. CSPI's resources are found here (new window). If you want to read the references to clinical trials and studies of effects of food dyes in kids, in utero, and whatever else, go to the report here (new window, PDF).

Shamefully, that Times article could have been written by the food industry itself, because it mentions but glosses over the most important fact: in Britain, most of these food dyes are banned, and yet the junk food companies have gone on just fine. This consumer friendly article (new window, PDF) shows a few examples. In the USA, McDonald's makes their strawberry "sundae" red by using Red #40.

You know how they make it red in Britain? Strawberries, that's how. The testing shows some alarming patterns, dyes are known to completely fark up some people, and they're just not necessary. They sell Chee-tos in Britain without artificial dyes, but the food industry would kind of like you to think that they'll be forced to sell you all Soylent Beige unless you drink petroleum byproducts.

//"Strawberry! Hundred bucks a jar strawberries!"
 
2011-04-04 03:08:12 AM  
img62.imageshack.usView Full Size

Panama Red standing by.

 
2011-04-04 03:10:34 AM  
img863.imageshack.usView Full Size

Red Ryder standing by.

 
2011-04-04 03:16:16 AM  

Buzzerguy: . This consumer friendly article (new window, PDF) shows a few examples. In the USA, McDonald's makes their strawberry "sundae" red by using Red #40.


From your link - "Why should Americans continue to consume these synthetic dyes when many multinational companies are phasing them out elsewhere?" asked CSPI director Michael Jacobson.


Why Michael? Let me tell you.

Because we're number 1!
Because if we stop the hippies have won!
Because "Natural" and "Organic" food is for elitist hipster douchebags!
Because if you have an allergic reaction you're a giant pussy!
Because the gubmit can stay out my cheetos! From my cold, dead, orange hands!
Because europe's full of goddamn socialists!

What more reason and evidence do you need Mr un-patriotic head of the CSPI? Go back to Cuba.
 
2011-04-04 03:20:19 AM  
img546.imageshack.usView Full Size

Red Light District standing by.

 
2011-04-04 03:25:44 AM  
*Reads comments*

Bravo Fark.
 
2011-04-04 03:25:54 AM  
In other news, grey-scaling foods is inaccurate.


In other news, no such "grey cheetos" study was done because the cheese additive is actually slightly pink and the stock is yellow.
 
Juc
2011-04-04 03:33:19 AM  
What would stop them from using the usual dye used in cheddar anyway?
That cheese isn't naturally the colour of citrus.
 
2011-04-04 03:40:29 AM  

jingks: jaylectricity: well, duh they don't taste as good when they're not Yellow #6...your senses work together to create a complex impression of every thing that you experience.

Blue waffles agree.


I do apologize. I searched for "blue waffles" on Google, but could not find any images.
 
2011-04-04 03:40:31 AM  
I want them to come out with bright blue Cheetos so it would look like I just ate a Smurf.
 
2011-04-04 03:40:32 AM  
redriverpak.files.wordpress.comView Full Size


Tobias Fünke, standing by.
 
2011-04-04 03:46:19 AM  
I ate a can of blue pringles once. I think it was a patriotic theme, as in cans of red or white or blue.
Neon.
Green.
Feces.
 
2011-04-04 03:48:34 AM  
There are no organic foods in foxholes.
 
2011-04-04 03:50:33 AM  
assets.sbnation.comView Full Size


Red Schoendienst standing by!

/Hot like the '57 Milwaukee Braves
 
2011-04-04 03:59:28 AM  
fantastic-plastic.comView Full Size


Red Octobah schtanding by.



/Pic is assembled model kit of Red October.
//Kind of want.
 
2011-04-04 04:02:06 AM  
Really, no one's going to quote the most awesomenessest line in the whole article?

"I could live without sprinkles, but why would I want to?"

Although I'd like to point out that Hoopers (new window) does have very pretty naturally-coloured sprinkles.

For those wondering about the pink ones, I googled Natural Colour 120 and it's cochineal. Yes, crushed bugs are natural. Yes, you can still have a bad reaction to natural flavouring.
 
2011-04-04 04:05:15 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size

Gold Six standing by (for Yellow #6)



/Just in case
//Pass the Porkins
 
2011-04-04 04:06:04 AM  

K3rmy: I do apologize. I searched for "blue waffles" on Google, but could not find any images.


They're delicious!

t0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 04:08:38 AM  

jingks: K3rmy: I do apologize. I searched for "blue waffles" on Google, but could not find any images.

They're delicious!


dammit! I just had to do it.....WAY NSFW Blue Waffle (new window)
 
2011-04-04 04:24:50 AM  

Gothnet: Buzzerguy: . This consumer friendly article (new window, PDF) shows a few examples. In the USA, McDonald's makes their strawberry "sundae" red by using Red #40.

From your link - "Why should Americans continue to consume these synthetic dyes when many multinational companies are phasing them out elsewhere?" asked CSPI director Michael Jacobson.


Why Michael? Let me tell you.

Because we're number 1!
Because if we stop the hippies have won!
Because "Natural" and "Organic" food is for elitist hipster douchebags!
Because if you have an allergic reaction you're a giant pussy!
Because the gubmit can stay out my cheetos! From my cold, dead, orange hands!
Because europe's full of goddamn socialists!

What more reason and evidence do you need Mr un-patriotic head of the CSPI? Go back to Cuba.


One non-snarky reason for you:

Who the flying fark are they to tell others what they can or can't eat or drink. The CSPI is no better than the the people who want to ban tobacco, or the jackasses at PETA, or the people at MADD who don't think any alcoholic beverage should taste good.
 
2011-04-04 04:36:35 AM  

summersa74: Who the flying fark are they to tell others what they can or can't eat or drink. The CSPI is no better than the the people who want to ban tobacco, or the jackasses at PETA, or the people at MADD who don't think any alcoholic beverage should taste good.



Err... did I miss the sarcasm?
'cos that's basically my "gubmit can stay out of mah cheetos" snark, restated.

They are a scientific establishment that has looked at the evidence and the behaviour in other countries and come to the conclusion that these colourings are -

harmful
unnecessary

People know tobacco is bad. People know too much booze is bad. We tell them all the time. Making companies put a disclaimer/warning on products containing known-bad colouring chemicals is not unreasonable.

I mean, (genuinely) do you actually want to eat Red 40 for some reason? Or tartrazine?

If there was a ban on french fries you would have a point. But this is not a desirable product being banned because excess of it is bad, it's an artificial colour with known side effects and very few benefits.
 
2011-04-04 05:09:52 AM  
SHIATTY FAMILY GUY MEME
STANDING BUY

 
2011-04-04 05:17:41 AM  
wrensoft.comView Full Size


Red Delicious, standing by
 
2011-04-04 05:32:11 AM  

JudgeItoBox: SHIATTY FAMILY GUY MEME
STANDING BUY


pix.sparky-s.ieView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 05:45:00 AM  

summersa74: Who the flying fark are they to tell others what they can or can't eat or drink. The CSPI is no better than the the people who want to ban tobacco, or the jackasses at PETA, or the people at MADD who don't think any alcoholic beverage should taste good.


Eat and drink whatever the hell you want, I don't care and I doubt they care, it's your damn body. They just want you do it in full knowledge of the potential side effects so that you can be the judge of whether it's worth it. Sometimes, living life is worth a little risk, sometimes it's not. Look on the bright side, many times banned products have led to the development of entirely better products that would never have been researched otherwise. (The replacement of lead with tin in electronics and cadmium in trinkets is a notable failure.)

Food processors have had decades of research to get the warnings out to the public, to trade up to safer products, or to return to natural coloring, but have done none of it. Therefore the government can either mandate huge warning labels like tobacco and alcohol, or since people aren't addicted and viable alternatives are already used in most of the world, just ban it and let them use them.
 
2011-04-04 05:52:06 AM  
novafm.com.auView Full Size


SMOKIN' HOT REDHEAD, STANDING BY!

 
2011-04-04 06:24:41 AM  
RED FOREMAN
static.tvfanatic.comView Full Size

STANDING BY, DUMBASS

 
2011-04-04 06:46:41 AM  
Could always substitute a fresh menstrual cycle for Red #40 & I'll bet you'll never notice the difference.

/try it on your Fruit Loops, you'll be pleasantly surprised...
 
2011-04-04 06:55:06 AM  

LincolnLogolas: Nothing wrong with red 40, unless you're Jewish. They tend to now call it "carmine extract" on labels now, to get Away from the synthetic sounding name. It's just bug juice. There's another red food dye, forget what they call it in food, I know it as lac. Also a bug extract. I'd trust the bug extracts more than some of the crazy synthetics.


Because God gets quite irate.
 
2011-04-04 06:58:03 AM  
All I know about color in food is that grape soda turns poop neon green.

Oh, and there was also this one time I tried making lollipops as a kid. I had raspberry flavoring and used liberal amounts of it but, as I was into coloring food differently (green milk in French Toast is really unappealing, BTW), I used yellow food coloring.

Swear to god the lollipops wound up tasting like butterscotch.
 
2011-04-04 07:11:12 AM  
CSPI is a bunch of douche bags. That said, anato or tumeric for yellow, beet or cabbage extract for red, etc. There are plenty of natural alternatives.
 
2011-04-04 07:31:57 AM  
Red #40 and Yellow #5

img703.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 07:43:52 AM  
filmofilia.comView Full Size


Retired, Extremely Dangerous
Standing By

 
2011-04-04 07:48:01 AM  

ChubbyTiger: CSPI is a bunch of douche bags. That said, anato or tumeric for yellow, beet or cabbage extract for red, etc. There are plenty of natural alternatives.


But cabbages and beets are so damn expensive!

I would imagine that if you got creative, you could draw dyes out of ends of food that would otherwise be tossed - say orange rinds after juicing (don't know if that specifically would work, just thinking). I don't know, but I do know that article was surprisingly crappy. Press release reworded + with a little extra thrown in to make it a real 'article'.
 
2011-04-04 08:03:08 AM  
I do believe that this applies mainly to the US.
Living in Italy, there's probably not even one food I eat daily that has artificial colouring.
Italians reject brightly-coloured ice-cream and, outside of the junk food world, there's nothing they eat that is fake-coloured.

Even italian-brand chips are certified to be as natural as possible. And fanta has natural orange juice and no artificial colouring. In fact, it's much less orange in colour than anywhere in America.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy some planter's cheddar balls every once in a while...
 
2011-04-04 08:17:38 AM  

That Guy in the Dos Equis Commercials: Gigantos: Keep away from my Blue 5. I love giving a bunch of it to my friends on St. Patrick's day and hearing what happens later on in the day.

I hope I have a kindred spirit.

I used to manage big chain stores. I won't mention the name, but it rhymes with Hall*Fart.

I was walking the bakery one morning and the bakery manager wondered out loud if drinking straight shots of that dye they used in icing would affect your urine color.

I drank blue, he did red.

No difference in color to our pee, even hours later. Sad face.

But the next morning, after I had even forgotten about it, I produced the brightest green excrement in the history of man.

I made my now ex-wife look at it. And even though she is a tightass about that kind of thing, she broke out laughing and asked me what the hell I was thinking.

CSB


My son did this with fruit roll ups when he was smaller 4-5ish. After that age he didn't get them any more.

Fresh blueberries also can cause colorful poo on babies.
 
2011-04-04 08:21:01 AM  

theotherbilly: I want to talk about pickles for a minute.


Okay, just remember, you brought it up.
(new window)
 
2011-04-04 08:26:12 AM  
LOL Name your poison.
 
2011-04-04 08:30:08 AM  
On the other hand, dyes increase the lifespan of roundworms:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature09873.ht​ml

On the other hand, roundworms don't have hands.
 
2011-04-04 08:33:38 AM  

LincolnLogolas: Nothing wrong with red 40, unless you're Jewish. They tend to now call it "carmine extract" on labels now, to get Away from the synthetic sounding name. It's just bug juice. There's another red food dye, forget what they call it in food, I know it as lac. Also a bug extract. I'd trust the bug extracts more than some of the crazy synthetics.


content.internetvideoarchive.comView Full Size


Did someone mention bug juice?
 
2011-04-04 08:39:13 AM  
How about we stop selling/buying/eating fake "food" that requires artificial colors to look appealing?

I think they should outlaw the stuff if for no other reason than that people might see what they're actually eating and choose not to.
 
2011-04-04 08:46:58 AM  

tfm_copycat: I do believe that this applies mainly to the US.
Living in Italy, there's probably not even one food I eat daily that has artificial colouring.
Italians reject brightly-coloured ice-cream and, outside of the junk food world, there's nothing they eat that is fake-coloured.

Even italian-brand chips are certified to be as natural as possible. And fanta has natural orange juice and no artificial colouring. In fact, it's much less orange in colour than anywhere in America.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy some planter's cheddar balls every once in a while...


I'm sure there isn't any relationship to diet and the myriad of bizarre ailments that plague most Americans. Nope.


cjoshuav: How about we stop selling/buying/eating fake "food" that requires artificial colors to look appealing?

I think they should outlaw the stuff if for no other reason than that people might see what they're actually eating and choose not to.


But, think of all the corporations and physicians that are making money due to these choices.
 
2011-04-04 08:52:53 AM  

ox45tallboy: theotherbilly: I want to talk about pickles for a minute.

Okay, just remember, you brought it up. (new window)


I blacked out halfway through that, then woke up covered in vomit.
 
2011-04-04 09:01:26 AM  
Food colourings are a good thing when force-fed by the bucketload to hyperactive snowflakes. If they are bouncing around off the walls and ceiling, that's some fine excercising, Lou, and they're not getting all fatassed on McDonalds.
 
2011-04-04 09:02:16 AM  
The Center for Science in the Public Interest is not.
 
2011-04-04 09:06:26 AM  

nationalreview.comView Full Size


Red Dawn, standing by

 
2011-04-04 09:20:30 AM  

Sim Tree: It's not just me, but a whole class of people, and possibly most of the children on the entire planet, but the side effects are subtle, and slow to onset, so are mostly ignored. Nevermind that several other industrialized nations have banned red 40 outright, and we can't even get an allergy warning in the corner.


Why would there be an allergy warning when people don't suffer allergic reactions? Allergies are life threatening, sensitivities are apparently "subtle," "slow to onset," and "mostly ignored."
 
2011-04-04 09:26:45 AM  
[image from secondstringblog.com too old to be available]

Big Red Machine, standing by.

 
2011-04-04 09:27:42 AM  
cdn3.iofferphoto.comView Full Size

99 Red Balloons standing by

 
2011-04-04 09:27:50 AM  
Artificial yellows make me break out in hives. I'd be very happy if they banned them.
 
2011-04-04 09:30:42 AM  
Is it just me, or has a large part of medical (specifically dietary) science turned into crap? No self-respecting scientist should go around saying "dyes that are used in some foods might worsen hyperactivity in some children". I don't think there's any other branch of science that sets the bar low enough that you don't actually have to prove anything.
 
2011-04-04 09:30:47 AM  

jessicat: Just as long as they don't fark up the hot cheetos with lime. Make em gray. They all taste the same in the dark.


What, they make flaming hot cheetos with lime? Must find.
 
2011-04-04 09:32:47 AM  

theotherbilly: ox45tallboy: theotherbilly: I want to talk about pickles for a minute.

Okay, just remember, you brought it up. (new window)

I blacked out halfway through that, then woke up covered in vomit.


That's the surprise.
 
2011-04-04 09:38:22 AM  
I had a large blue slushie on a long drive home one night. Then had a dentist appointment the next morning. They were amused that the blue worked like a revealing tablet and made cleaning easier. Later that day I had a brilliant blue #2, I'm not sure if I would have remembered why if I had not explained the blue teeth to the detist.

/CSB
 
2011-04-04 09:40:29 AM  
So big corporations are tricking me into thinking that processed food tastes good? I'm truly shocked.
 
2011-04-04 09:41:26 AM  

tfm_copycat: Italians reject brightly-coloured ice-cream and, outside of the junk food world, there's nothing they eat that is fake-coloured.


But they don't mind brightly coloured people, I guess.

static.thehollywoodgossip.comView Full Size


/Yah, I know, I know, she's not really Italian...
 
2011-04-04 09:45:16 AM  

Froman: Or we could just start eating real food, and that includes snack food


Indeed. If the food in question has some natural flavoring agents in it, odds are it won't be completely grey anyway.

Case in point: Cheetos. You can get puffed corn cheese crisp things (i.e. Cheetos, just not the brand name) made with just cheese, and they're pale yellow or yellowy white. They look... cheesy. They taste like cheese, nothing gross about it. Lots of cheese is pale yellow and you expect THAT to taste like cheese, don't ya?

Same with Jello. I don't eat Jello, but do make various desserts that are jelled, usually by boiling up a bunch of stuff and then adding agar-agar. Well, the juice before jelling has color in it, from the fruit or tea or whatever it is. If it's got milk in it (cow, coconut, soy or other) it will be opaque white. Looks tasty.

Cereal? What's wrong with normal grain color, even if you're putting sugar in it so it's a sweet cereal?

The whole "hot dogs would be grey!" well yeah, sausages often are!

As a kid it was fun to sometimes dye pancakes on purpose, though. The oddness of them being blue was just cool.
 
2011-04-04 09:46:39 AM  
Oh, I'm also sensitive to MSG (MonoSodiumGlutenate). It causes cramping an diareah about 30 minutes after eating. It makes going out to eat at unfamiliar restraunts an adventure. Occasionally I have the reaction without being able to find where I had MSG. Perhaps I'll need to look for Yellow 5, Yellow 6, and Red 40. Though once it was just plain celery, and I couldnt find any information on what might be used to process it.

/Second CSB.
 
2011-04-04 09:46:46 AM  

cptjeff: Why the fark do we need any of these again?

Oh yeah- if we didn't use them, the larger populace would realize that what we eat is not produced from the natural ingredients supposed at all, but reprocessed corn flavored to taste like those natural things.


\This post brought to you by Kraft Guacamole.
\\Now with 100% less avocados!
\\\Yes, it exists. Or did.


It's not up to you.
 
2011-04-04 09:48:55 AM  

TheGogmagog: I had a large blue slushie on a long drive home one night. Then had a dentist appointment the next morning. They were amused that the blue worked like a revealing tablet and made cleaning easier. Later that day I had a brilliant blue #2, I'm not sure if I would have remembered why if I had not explained the blue teeth to the detist.

/CSB


My office had some party a few years ago with a cake, background icing was white but it had balloons drawn on that were just HUGE globs of really darkly colored icing. Many were blue, so blue it was almost black, and there were also orange, red, etc.

Well, the icing tasted pretty good so people ate the balloon globs.

Dyed their mouths something crazy. Most people didn't much care but the secretary was rather horrified, for the rest of the day she was sitting there in the front office with completely blue teeth/mouth.

As far as I know though, no other effects.
 
2011-04-04 09:51:43 AM  

itazurakko: Dyed their mouths something crazy. Most people didn't much care but the secretary was rather horrified, for the rest of the day she was sitting there in the front office with completely blue teeth/mouth.

As far as I know though, no other effects.


How do you know there were no other effects? Did you ask her about her poo?

/that's a great ice breaker/conversation starter
 
2011-04-04 09:54:24 AM  
img141.imageshack.usView Full Size

REDЯUM standing by.

 
2011-04-04 10:00:18 AM  

Chair5768: Red two standing by.


*whisper* thank you.
 
2011-04-04 10:04:42 AM  
How about if people don't want to eat food with artificial colors, flavors, dyes, etc they don't buy preprocessed cr*p food? Why does the gov'ment have to step in and save everyone from themselves? How about we let people decide what they want to eat? I have been cutting away at the preprocessed food slowly but surely, and in general have been losing weight, feeling better, having better tasting food, and a lower grocery bill. That said, I still love m&m's and skittles. Everyone has a weakness. Anyone who still wants their cheetoes, buy them. If you want healthy buy healthier. But that wouldn't work because it involves responsibility on the part of the consumer.
 
2011-04-04 10:11:16 AM  
"Color is such a crucial part of the eating experience that banning dyes would take much of the pleasure out of life," said Kantha Shelke, a food chemist and spokeswoman for the Institute of Food Technologists.

She sounds unbiased.
 
2011-04-04 10:12:03 AM  
Natural Cheetos are awesome. Screw the neon yellow garbage, these taste like, you know, actual food.

/Allergic to yellow dye and would love for it all to go the fark away. It's ridiculous how we can't just make natural coloring and flavoring for food and have to get this artificial crap made from synthetic sources.
 
2011-04-04 10:15:47 AM  

Gothnet:
There's a difference somewhere.

My brother had an allergy to Sunset Yellow and Tartrazineand they would send him absolutely mental.

Yes, he was a problem child anyway and it wasn't the only trigger, *but* if you gave him green candy instead of yellow/orange candy he was fine. You could pack him to the eyeballs with sugar, and yes he'd get a bit hyper, but it was nothing like the running-screaming-crying-shouting-jumping-bawling monster he'd turn into given something with sunset yellow or tartrazine in it.

So these things do happen. I'm not going to get into any sort of natural/artifical debate, but sometimes these colours do do things over and above "being a kid"


Alright, I'm not looking for a debate either (it'd be the same as arguing over natural/artificial breasts, I'm sure). I have no expertise in these areas which is why I asked and my interest is more than a little piqued. Anecdotal evidence from a farker is enough to tell me to do some research into it.

clockwork_biafra:

Probably because there is very little empirical evidence that sugar causes hyperactivity, ESPECIALLY in children with ADHD (but MUCH evidence that any perceived change in behaviour is due to the EXPECTATION that sugar will cause hyperactivity).


Interesting. To The GOOGLE.
 
2011-04-04 10:16:30 AM  
When I want colour, I go to an art gallery, watch a sunset, or turn on a movie on the brand new blu-ray player I got for my birthday this year.

When I want food, I eat actual food. If it has ingredients I don't understand or can't pronounce, I don't buy it.
 
2011-04-04 10:20:18 AM  

summersa74: Gothnet: Buzzerguy: . This consumer friendly article (new window, PDF) shows a few examples. In the USA, McDonald's makes their strawberry "sundae" red by using Red #40.

From your link - "Why should Americans continue to consume these synthetic dyes when many multinational companies are phasing them out elsewhere?" asked CSPI director Michael Jacobson.


Why Michael? Let me tell you.

Because we're number 1!
Because if we stop the hippies have won!
Because "Natural" and "Organic" food is for elitist hipster douchebags!
Because if you have an allergic reaction you're a giant pussy!
Because the gubmit can stay out my cheetos! From my cold, dead, orange hands!
Because europe's full of goddamn socialists!

What more reason and evidence do you need Mr un-patriotic head of the CSPI? Go back to Cuba.

One non-snarky reason for you:

Who the flying fark are they to tell others what they can or can't eat or drink. The CSPI is no better than the the people who want to ban tobacco, or the jackasses at PETA, or the people at MADD who don't think any alcoholic beverage should taste good.


So why hang around and biatch? The world is full of places where a bootstrappy, Galtian superman such as yourself can be free of the meddling of do-gooder "scientist" types.
May I suggest Somalia, or perhaps Antarctica?
 
2011-04-04 10:37:04 AM  

itazurakko: The whole "hot dogs would be grey!" well yeah, sausages often are!


They already have grey hot dogs. They're called white hots.

i659.photobucket.comView Full Size


/Rochester thing
//GIS for "white hot dog" returns a disturbing number of photos of Betty White eating a hot dog.
 
2011-04-04 10:45:07 AM  

farm6.static.flickr.comView Full Size

Red Line standing by.

 
2011-04-04 10:53:09 AM  
We like brightly colored foods because in nature, bright color indicates good-for-you qualities such as freshness and vitamins.

Chee-tos are naturally gross colored? OMG Guess what? Chee-tos are bad for you. Bad for you food, should in fact look bad.

Not trying to say that there's any good science behind banning artificial colors, but common sense says it's just a workaround for a bug in our brain that leaves us vulnerable to being tricked into thinking things are good when they aren't.
 
2011-04-04 10:53:58 AM  

Who'stheBossisNotaFood: How about if people don't want to eat food with artificial colors, flavors, dyes, etc they don't buy preprocessed cr*p food? Why does the gov'ment have to step in and save everyone from themselves? How about we let people decide what they want to eat? I have been cutting away at the preprocessed food slowly but surely, and in general have been losing weight, feeling better, having better tasting food, and a lower grocery bill. That said, I still love m&m's and skittles. Everyone has a weakness. Anyone who still wants their cheetoes, buy them. If you want healthy buy healthier. But that wouldn't work because it involves responsibility on the part of the consumer.


Even with all-natural flavourings cheetos would still be unhealthy.

This is not about taking away your farking indulgences ferchrissakes!

It's about at least labelling stuff that is a direct negative on some people's health, so that they have a choice too. And if labelling what's in your product means people won't buy it so you have to change to a less harmful set of ingredients then so be it.

Nobody's going to raid your house and take you frickin skittles.
 
2011-04-04 10:54:33 AM  
Americans would die of starvation without artificially colored food.
 
2011-04-04 11:01:18 AM  

MightySlam: itazurakko: The whole "hot dogs would be grey!" well yeah, sausages often are!

They already have grey hot dogs. They're called white hots.

/Rochester thing
//GIS for "white hot dog" returns a disturbing number of photos of Betty White eating a hot dog.


Mmm... I think I'll have a white hot garbage plate and a pop for lunch. While driving through the can of worms. During a lake-effect snow warning.
 
2011-04-04 11:02:17 AM  

Sim Tree: It's not just me, but a whole class of people, and possibly most of the children on the entire planet, but the side effects are subtle, and slow to onset, so are mostly ignored. Nevermind that several other industrialized nations have banned red 40 outright, and we can't even get an allergy warning in the corner.

Sorry it's just the article has got on my bad side; it's a prime example of "did not do the research"; they merely took an obviously biased press release and rewrote it as an article, saying that color adds value to foods. Well yes, but there are other colors that aren't actually poisonous, which could be equally valuable in foods, which the article itself completely ignores! As if any food that was not absolutely neon hot pink would be no good; which is why all our food today looks similar to 'froot-roll-ups'. It's madness! (Sparta).

Then at the end, instead of approaching this argument using any logic whatsoever, they only quote people saying 'Well, if we hadn't started using red 40 sprinkles, it wouldn't be a cupcake'. If they'd quoted someone saying 'well, we used to have a wheelchair ramp, but we took it out so the front looks pretty' they'd have his head on a platter! Yet they've effectively banned an equal portion of their potential customers, and then stand around saying "duh", wondering why their sales suddenly drop.


I really can't imagine that the people sensitive to Red 40 is as big a group as you claim. I don't know a single person with that sensitivity or even heard about it before this article.

Honestly, quit trying to legislate what the rest of us eat to suit your need. If you can't eat Red 40, then deal with it and choose foods that don't have it. Don't eat processed food that has even the possibility of having the chemical in it.

I have a caffeine sensitivity as do a bunch of people and it also makes kids hyperactive (and causes health issues in high amounts), but you don't see me pushing to abolish caffeine for food production. I just avoid it and live my life. Doing otherwise would be douchebaggery at its finest.
 
2011-04-04 11:04:07 AM  

GranoblasticMan: That Guy in the Dos Equis Commercials: Gigantos: Keep away from my Blue 5. I love giving a bunch of it to my friends on St. Patrick's day and hearing what happens later on in the day.

I hope I have a kindred spirit.

I used to manage big chain stores. I won't mention the name, but it rhymes with Hall*Fart.

I was walking the bakery one morning and the bakery manager wondered out loud if drinking straight shots of that dye they used in icing would affect your urine color.

I drank blue, he did red.

No difference in color to our pee, even hours later. Sad face.

But the next morning, after I had even forgotten about it, I produced the brightest green excrement in the history of man.

I made my now ex-wife look at it. And even though she is a tightass about that kind of thing, she broke out laughing and asked me what the hell I was thinking.

CSB


Fruity Pebbles do the same thing to me.
 
2011-04-04 11:12:29 AM  

hailin: I really can't imagine that the people sensitive to Red 40 is as big a group as you claim. I don't know a single person with that sensitivity or even heard about it before this article.


Read the wikipedia page on Red 40 -

"The study found increased levels of hyperactivity and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and lower IQs were observed in children consuming the chemicals."

So it's bad for kids, it's not 'good' for anyone and there are replacements available. Seems a cut and dried positive for society to get rid of them, IMHO.
 
2011-04-04 11:13:40 AM  
I have an allergy (not a sensitivity, a god damn positive blood and scratch test allergy) to turmeric, and you can take my far-less allergenic yellow 5 and 6 from my cold, dead, hands.
 
2011-04-04 11:16:10 AM  
I think they should remove all artificial coloring from food. I know I'd eat less.
 
2011-04-04 11:16:45 AM  
If the food you eat has to be colored by scientists, then it's not really food.
 
2011-04-04 11:17:35 AM  
I'm sorry to be "that guy," but artificial dyes are not making you, your neighbor's kid or anyone else hyperactive. The implication seems to be that some of these dyes are acting as pyschomotor stimulants, but that simply is not the case. Before psychoactive drugs got such a bad wrap in the media, legions of scientists working for pharmaceutical companies and universities developed literally thousands of stimulants, but these dyes are not among them. Studies such as the one from last week linking dyes to hyperactivity prove correlation and nothing else. If you think you feel hyper after eating these dyes, you are experiencing the power of suggestion. The placebo effect is measurable and real.
 
2011-04-04 11:20:25 AM  

count chocula: legions of scientists working for pharmaceutical companies and universities developed literally thousands of stimulants, but these dyes are not among them.



So wait, because they weren't specifically developed as stimulants, they couldn't possibly have that effect?

FAIL.
 
2011-04-04 11:21:13 AM  

Gothnet: So it's bad for kids, it's not 'good' for anyone and there are replacements available. Seems a cut and dried positive for society to get rid of them, IMHO.


The exact same thing can be said about caffeine, but no one seems to be ready to cut that.

If you don't want to feed it to your kids, guess what? THEN DON'T BUY IT! Food is already getting expensive with gas prices going up. Legislating to make food even more expensive right now is stupid.

Last time I checked, natural fruits, natural vegetables, natural dairy products, natural meat products and whole grains don't have artificial dyes. You get what you deserve with the processed crap.
 
2011-04-04 11:21:24 AM  
i280.photobucket.comView Full Size


Standing by:
 
2011-04-04 11:22:18 AM  

count chocula: The placebo effect is measurable and real.


it's 30% effective!

Medications only have to be 33% effective to get approved.

Your anti-depressant is almost no better then sugarpill.
 
2011-04-04 11:23:15 AM  

nobodyUwannaknow: I thought they used to color some stuff with the blood of virgins.

Why can't they do that anymo - oh wait. nevermind


Virgins are too rare and valuable a resource nowdays.
 
2011-04-04 11:24:20 AM  
nndb.comView Full Size


Red Skelton standing by!

/HOT!
 
2011-04-04 11:24:31 AM  
We'll always have Paris Hilton's Yellow Pages ad.

Yeah, I know it's far-fetched. But I have a back-up gag:

Crome Yellow standing by
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 11:26:30 AM  

hailin: The exact same thing can be said about caffeine, but no one seems to be ready to cut that.


They don't generally pump caffeine into anywhere near as many things.


If you don't want to feed it to your kids, guess what? THEN DON'T BUY IT!

So label it, clearly, in bold. What are you afraid of?


Food is already getting expensive with gas prices going up. Legislating to make food even more expensive right now is stupid.

Most of the foods mentioned don't really count as food, as you point out yourself.

Either way, there's no benefit to these things being around, as has been pointed out many times in this thread. Natural additives without the associated downsides are available and used in other countries.
 
2011-04-04 11:27:41 AM  
People who liked Crome Yellow also liked:

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size

Chrome Yellow Standing By
 
2011-04-04 11:30:23 AM  
A couple of years ago at a coworker's reception he and his new wife smeared red icing all over each other's faces. My coworker said, "I'm allergic to red food coloring," and ran into the men's room to wash it off. Five minutes later he came back out with the icing washed off and huge angry hives all over his face and neck. The best man had to run out and procure benadryl for the groom.

/css
 
2011-04-04 11:33:05 AM  
thank the gods.
 
2011-04-04 11:33:54 AM  
I can't believe that anyone actually defends the use of even semi-questionable dyes in processed foods. These are a completely unnecessary additive...as in, they exist only to make the food LOOK more appealing. Why do food manufacturers feel that that is necessary? Because your body is hardwired to feel revulsion at things that have an unappealing look, and a lot of their "food" products would look pretty bad without the dyes. Bright colors are a subconscious indicator of freshness and nutrition, and so these dyes are a way to short-circuit the natural instinct we would otherwise have to avoid things that aren't good for us.

Furthermore, there are alternatives for most of these dyes that don't require putting non-food ingredients made in a chemical plant into food. It's just that a lot of those alternatives aren't as brightly colored, or cost more money, or aren't quite as durable and shelf-stable, and we can't cut into corporate profits, now can we?

Finally, I REALLY don't understand the people who claim that places like CSPI are infringing on their "right" to eat what they want. No one is taking away your Cheetos, fatty. Instead, they just want corporations to stop putting unnecessary things that are bad for you (or even just possibly bad for you: why not err on the side of safety, when we're talking about a totally substitutable and unnecessary ingredient?) in them. It isn't about regulating your food choices; it's about regulating corporations to get them to stop putting poisons into our food supply. Would the people who are against this sort of regulation also support allowing food companies to put lead in food as a sweetener? Or arsenic as a preservative? The only difference between that and these dyes is a matter of degree of harm.

I also think a differentiation needs to be made between harmful substances in food that are an intrinsic part of the food and things that are optional additives. It's impossible to remove carcinogens from grilled meat, as it's an intrinsic part of the cooking process, so it would be stupid to try to force steakhouses to stop serving it. It's easy, by contrast, to remove a red dye from a processed food product. They can easily just replace it with something else, or leave it out entirely.
 
2011-04-04 11:35:47 AM  

ox45tallboy: How do you know there were no other effects? Did you ask her about her poo?


Did not. :)

But, no one actually DIED or got obviously sick, is all I meant. I'm certain there HAD to be interesting poop later that evening, considering just how much dye was in there!
 
2011-04-04 11:41:14 AM  

Gothnet: So wait, because they weren't specifically developed as stimulants, they couldn't possibly have that effect?

FAIL.


OK, you got me there. But, judging from the structural activity relationships of all known stimulant drugs, it seems very unlikely that these dyes would act as stimulants. And specifically, here is an abstract of a study using rodents and red no. 40 that is actually trying to find a causational link between red no. 40 adverse behavioral effects:

Abstract

The color additive, Allura Red AC, was given in the diet to provide levels of 0.42, 0.84, and 1.68% (control, 0%), from 5 weeks of age of the F0 generation to 9 weeks of age of the F1 generation in mice, and selected reproductive and neurobehavioral parameters were measured. There were few adverse effects of Allura Red AC on either litter size or weight, and ratio of male to female was significantly reduced in the lowest dosed group. Average body weight of offspring during the lactation period was significantly increased in the lower dosed groups of each sex. As regards the neurobehavioral parameters, no adverse effect was observed in the behavioral development during lactation period. There were few adverse effects of Allura Red AC on either movement activity or maze learning in F1 generation mice, compared with controls in each sex. The dose levels of Allura Red AC in the present study (approximately 86-1430 times greater than human ADI) produced few adverse effects in reproductive and neurobehavioral parameters in mice.


source
 
2011-04-04 11:47:15 AM  

TheStag: Is it just me, or has a large part of medical (specifically dietary) science turned into crap? No self-respecting scientist should go around saying "dyes that are used in some foods might worsen hyperactivity in some children". I don't think there's any other branch of science that sets the bar low enough that you don't actually have to prove anything.


It's because doing the science is complicated. To get results you can actually trust, you have to do a clinical study, which requires a large number of participants. On top of that, if you're looking at the effects on children you have to jump through even more hoops regarding safety, and participation is likely to be difficult to drum up ("Hey, we'd like to inject your kid with random chemicals to see if his brain explodes. Sound good?").

That aside, you end up with smaller studies or statistical analyses, where you either gather up incidences reported by physicians, which are not ideal since the only way to control the variables is to exclude cases, or to perform studies using non-ideal participants in smaller numbers. Both put out science that is highly qualified, as per your description.

For example, someone up the thread mentioned Tartazine. This study (pops) found that for adults with a specified set of conditions, tartazine was not found to exacerbate their symptoms more than placebo.

What does that mean? Well, not much. Their sample size was 26, which is not exactly something to hang your hat on. They also looked at adults, which wouldn't say anything about the effects on children (if any).

So, yeah . . . science is hard. But I prefer the scientists being responsible about their findings, qualifying them as appropriate, to the people who take said findings and let their imaginations run wild ("BAN EVERYTHING TO SAVE THE SNOWFLAKES!").
 
2011-04-04 11:48:04 AM  

TheStag: Is it just me, or has a large part of medical (specifically dietary) science turned into crap? No self-respecting scientist should go around saying "dyes that are used in some foods might worsen hyperactivity in some children". I don't think there's any other branch of science that sets the bar low enough that you don't actually have to prove anything.


Well here's the deal with that. If you think yellow #6 causes damage to a developing fetus,you don't get to take fifty pregnant chicks and have yourself an experiment. At best you can track what some eat. You can't, in good ethical conscious, have these women take in extra so that they prove causality beyond all doubt.

Humanity as a whole if all medical studies picked twins and destroyed one or both of them to advance science, but we've kinda decided we wont allow it.
 
2011-04-04 11:48:47 AM  
Why are we putting a petroleum derivative in our food?

Freedom.
 
2011-04-04 11:48:58 AM  
Cheesus checking in
i55.photobucket.comView Full Size

 
2011-04-04 11:56:39 AM  

Gothnet: "The study found increased levels of hyperactivity and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and lower IQs were observed in children consuming the chemicals."

So it's bad for kids, it's not 'good' for anyone and there are replacements available. Seems a cut and dried positive for society to get rid of them, IMHO.


Correlation does not indicate causation.
CORRELATION DOES NOT INDICATE CAUSATION!
CORRELATION DOES NOT farkING INDICATE CAUSATION!!

Did you know that EVERY person that ever drank water died?! Put that on your ban list, too.

The willful and aggressive ignorance on what statistical studies do and do not indicate is one of my pet peeves, regardless of what the study "shows".

Being ignorant isn't your fault. Staying ignorant is.
 
2011-04-04 12:01:36 PM  

Damian: Gothnet: "The study found increased levels of hyperactivity and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and lower IQs were observed in children consuming the chemicals."

So it's bad for kids, it's not 'good' for anyone and there are replacements available. Seems a cut and dried positive for society to get rid of them, IMHO.

Correlation does not indicate causation.
CORRELATION DOES NOT INDICATE CAUSATION!
CORRELATION DOES NOT farkING INDICATE CAUSATION!!

Did you know that EVERY person that ever drank water died?! Put that on your ban list, too.

The willful and aggressive ignorance on what statistical studies do and do not indicate is one of my pet peeves, regardless of what the study "shows".

Being ignorant isn't your fault. Staying ignorant is.


So you think ingesting petro chemicals is fine? Statistical studies aside, oil is not meant to be eaten, if you are relying on studies to tell you whether it is, or isn't "food" you're a farking moron.
 
2011-04-04 12:06:22 PM  

hstein3: It's because doing the science is complicated. To get results you can actually trust, you have to do a clinical study, which requires a large number of participants. On top of that, if you're looking at the effects on children you have to jump through even more hoops regarding safety, and participation is likely to be difficult to drum up ("Hey, we'd like to inject your kid with random chemicals to see if his brain explodes. Sound good?").

That aside, you end up with smaller studies or statistical analyses, where you either gather up incidences reported by physicians, which are not ideal since the only way to control the variables is to exclude cases, or to perform studies using non-ideal participants in smaller numbers. Both put out science that is highly qualified, as per your description.


Don't a lot of the studies from CSPI rely on some cohort of nurses that they started following and observing for just general trends a while ago?

I remember reading somewhere about that, that a reason so many studies either seem inconclusive from the beginning or else seem to "flip" every few years was just because the sample size was fairly small and there are pretty much infinite variables involved, since they're just observing a general group of people without any specific controls.

...which is useful, I guess, but definitely requires the grain of salt be taken (which the original studies do mention, despite what the eventual media puff articles end up saying).
 
2011-04-04 12:07:03 PM  

Damian: Correlation does not indicate causation.
CORRELATION DOES NOT INDICATE CAUSATION!
CORRELATION DOES NOT farkING INDICATE CAUSATION!!

Did you know that EVERY person that ever drank water died?! Put that on your ban list, too.

The willful and aggressive ignorance on what statistical studies do and do not indicate is one of my pet peeves, regardless of what the study "shows".

Being ignorant isn't your fault. Staying ignorant is.


Ever heard of the so-called "precautionary principle"?

Basically, many people believe that when we're talking about widespread food additives, with unknown potential for harm, then you should err on the side of NOT including them. Or, to put it another way, the burden of proof in this case should be on the processed food manufacturers to provide very strong evidence that their additives do NOT cause harm, rather than the other way around. It's true that a correlation does not demonstrate, by itself, that these dyes are harmful. It's also true that many possible kinds of problems caused by them have not been studied enough to rule them out. And again, since this is a totally unnecessary and optional thing to put in food, and something that could be added to a huge amount of different things people eat, there should be very strong evidence required that this isn't doing any harm. Since they could just take it out of their products without changing anything other than appearance, what we're talking about is weighing processed food marketing vs. human health. I'm not convinced that these dyes DO cause problems, at all, but I do feel that the burden of proving that they're safe should lie with the companies using them, not with people who are urging caution. I feel that it makes sense to regulate food additives (simply because they are ADDITIVES, and therefore optional) much more heavily than we regulate food, in general.

This is a major philosophical difference between the general approach taken in the U.S. vs. Europe. In Europe, the precautionary principle is a much stronger influence. In the U.S., we allow a lot of things that are "generally recognized as safe" simply because we've been using them for a long time, even without strong scientific evidence of safety.
 
2011-04-04 12:08:36 PM  
Just a random addition (or additive, if you prefer):

I have a small custom cookie bakery. When people ask about natural food dyes I show them the difference between regular dyes and natural ones.
I live in a very crunchy-granola, organic hippie kind of community, but every customer eventually picks the regular dyes, because they look better.

I would love for this issue to get more attention so less disgusting alternatives could be developed. I can't help but think some of the vibrant colors people ask for are bad for them. And yes, some of the dyes are petroleum-based- when one of them goes bad it smells like a vinyl shower curtain. Blecch.
 
2011-04-04 12:12:01 PM  

gnumoon: Just a random addition (or additive, if you prefer):

I have a small custom cookie bakery. When people ask about natural food dyes I show them the difference between regular dyes and natural ones.
I live in a very crunchy-granola, organic hippie kind of community, but every customer eventually picks the regular dyes, because they look better.

I would love for this issue to get more attention so less disgusting alternatives could be developed. I can't help but think some of the vibrant colors people ask for are bad for them. And yes, some of the dyes are petroleum-based- when one of them goes bad it smells like a vinyl shower curtain. Blecch.


I'm genuinely curious, do you have a preference for which dyes you eat?
 
2011-04-04 12:12:51 PM  

Mnemia: Damian: Correlation does not indicate causation.
CORRELATION DOES NOT INDICATE CAUSATION!
CORRELATION DOES NOT farkING INDICATE CAUSATION!!

Did you know that EVERY person that ever drank water died?! Put that on your ban list, too.

The willful and aggressive ignorance on what statistical studies do and do not indicate is one of my pet peeves, regardless of what the study "shows".

Being ignorant isn't your fault. Staying ignorant is.

Ever heard of the so-called "precautionary principle"?

Basically, many people believe that when we're talking about widespread food additives, with unknown potential for harm, then you should err on the side of NOT including them. Or, to put it another way, the burden of proof in this case should be on the processed food manufacturers to provide very strong evidence that their additives do NOT cause harm, rather than the other way around. It's true that a correlation does not demonstrate, by itself, that these dyes are harmful. It's also true that many possible kinds of problems caused by them have not been studied enough to rule them out. And again, since this is a totally unnecessary and optional thing to put in food, and something that could be added to a huge amount of different things people eat, there should be very strong evidence required that this isn't doing any harm. Since they could just take it out of their products without changing anything other than appearance, what we're talking about is weighing processed food marketing vs. human health. I'm not convinced that these dyes DO cause problems, at all, but I do feel that the burden of proving that they're safe should lie with the companies using them, not with people who are urging caution. I feel that it makes sense to regulate food additives (simply because they are ADDITIVES, and therefore optional) much more heavily than we regulate food, in general.

This is a major philosophical difference between the general approach taken in the U.S. vs. Europe. In Europe, the precautionary principle is a much stronger influence. In the U.S., we allow a lot of things that are "generally recognized as safe" simply because we've been using them for a long time, even without strong scientific evidence of safety.


Food dyes have been around for well over 50 years.

If they actually did anything, we'd know about it, because every single baby boomer would be functionally retarded. All of their kids would be too.

Poisons don't effect only 1% of the population. They effect the entire population. We have all been exposed to these chemicals and you know what? 99% have absolutely no problem with them.

Go back to eating things that don't cast shadows.
 
2011-04-04 12:15:03 PM  
Petroleum-based means nothing.

Vaseline is a petroleum byproduct. It was discovered by roughnecks when this white grease would end up on the drilling pipes. Someone discovered it gave the roughnecks really nice soft skin and started selling it.

All your lip glosses probably contain petroleum too.
 
2011-04-04 12:15:39 PM  
... but if..if..if they change the color of Cheetos, that old joke about your orange fapping hand won't work....
 
2011-04-04 12:18:40 PM  

kapaso: gnumoon: Just a random addition (or additive, if you prefer):

I have a small custom cookie bakery. When people ask about natural food dyes I show them the difference between regular dyes and natural ones.
I live in a very crunchy-granola, organic hippie kind of community, but every customer eventually picks the regular dyes, because they look better.

I would love for this issue to get more attention so less disgusting alternatives could be developed. I can't help but think some of the vibrant colors people ask for are bad for them. And yes, some of the dyes are petroleum-based- when one of them goes bad it smells like a vinyl shower curtain. Blecch.

I'm genuinely curious, do you have a preference for which dyes you eat?


In my everyday life, I avoid the dyes. But for the occasional treat (like a cookie at a birthday party), I'm not going to sweat it. I just wish a viable alternative were available.

No natural dye will be able to produce specific, vibrant color like this, though:
gnumoon.smugmug.comView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 12:19:38 PM  

fluffy2097: Petroleum-based means nothing.

Vaseline is a petroleum byproduct. It was discovered by roughnecks when this white grease would end up on the drilling pipes. Someone discovered it gave the roughnecks really nice soft skin and started selling it.

All your lip glosses probably contain petroleum too.


Petroleum based actually does mean something, it means the product was derived from petroleum. If you want to ingest oil based products be my guest, the world is your oyster.

I would at least like to know if the food I'm eating has oil in it, or do have problem with letting people know what they are eating?
 
2011-04-04 12:19:47 PM  
i191.photobucket.comView Full Size


BETTY WHITE STANDING BY
 
2011-04-04 12:20:00 PM  

quizybuck: Sim Tree: It's not just me, but a whole class of people, and possibly most of the children on the entire planet, but the side effects are subtle, and slow to onset, so are mostly ignored. Nevermind that several other industrialized nations have banned red 40 outright, and we can't even get an allergy warning in the corner.

Why would there be an allergy warning when people don't suffer allergic reactions? Allergies are life threatening, sensitivities are apparently "subtle," "slow to onset," and "mostly ignored."


It doesn't make people swell up and die, but it makes many children and some adults completely unable to focus on anything for any length of time, making any task, even one as simple as watching TV, completely impossible. Every time I accidentally get some, I know I'm going to lose two whole days or so.

I would just appreciate it if they were set to the same requirements as every other food on the planet, and list it on the label, instead of posting "with colors added" on every single food in the universe, so that I frequently have to fast all day if I want to live my life that day.

hailin: Honestly, quit trying to legislate what the rest of us eat to suit your need. If you can't eat Red 40, then deal with it and choose foods that don't have it. Don't eat processed food that has even the possibility of having the chemical in it.


I'm not trying to have it banned, see per above; I just want it to be on the label, same as everything else, instead of having it deliberately hidden from me. Especially when it's only hidden so that parents cannot determine which foods have it and make responsible health choices.

And the group is large indeed when other countries have already banned the substances. That's not just busybody posturing when the FDAs of several other countries have deemed the substance so outrageously dangerous it can't even be used. And one country can't even get a warning on the box, allowing us to make our own descend on what we want to purchase or not, completely unlike every other chemical on the plant used in foods.

I cannot avoid foods that "might have it"; EVERY food might have it. I've found it in farking bread. I've found it in farking yogurt. I've found it in farking milk (which at least had the decency to list it on the back). It's getting increasingly pervasive, and I would sincerely appreciate it if they would at least tell me what I am buying.
 
2011-04-04 12:20:51 PM  
[image from tidewater.net too old to be available]

Red Auerbach standing by
 
2011-04-04 12:21:01 PM  

gnumoon: Just a random addition (or additive, if you prefer):

I have a small custom cookie bakery. When people ask about natural food dyes I show them the difference between regular dyes and natural ones.
I live in a very crunchy-granola, organic hippie kind of community, but every customer eventually picks the regular dyes, because they look better.

I would love for this issue to get more attention so less disgusting alternatives could be developed. I can't help but think some of the vibrant colors people ask for are bad for them. And yes, some of the dyes are petroleum-based- when one of them goes bad it smells like a vinyl shower curtain. Blecch.


Again, as I said, it's completely natural for people to prefer vibrant colors. We are pretty much evolutionarily programmed to prefer brightly colored foods, because it's an indication of freshness, ripeness, and nutrition. That's why brightly colored fruit is appealing to people, and why fruit is naturally brightly colored: the plants evolved these colors in order to attract animals to them at precisely the optimal time for their seeds to be spread. Same for flowers and attracting pollinators: the bright colors are a signal that there's something good to eat there. So it totally makes sense that people are going to prefer foods that are dyed with more vibrant artificial dyes. That's why people who market foods use them: it stimulates people to find the foods appealing, and buy more of them.

But, there is a dark side to this idea when we're talking about processed foods. By adding these brightly colored dyes, they are actually "cheating" our natural instincts about what is good for us and what isn't. (Same thing is also true of adding lots of sugar or fat to things.) This is why people like processed foods, even when they know that they aren't good for them: it's because the foods are carefully designed to push our nutritional "buttons" and keep us buying more. So these dyes are a primary mechanism by which food marketers get people to eat crap that they otherwise wouldn't.

And, of course, there is the fact that there's a difference between whether something looks appealing and whether it's a good idea to eat it. In fact, because of what I just said, we should actually downplay the "appeal" factor as a consideration in whether we should be using these kinds of dyes. People will find lots of things they wouldn't otherwise want to eat appealing if it's dressed up the right away.
 
2011-04-04 12:21:46 PM  
This thread took a turn for the lulz.

Gentlemen,

:\

am proud.
 
2011-04-04 12:22:39 PM  
You want to dye something red? Use beet juice.

Eating two servings of beets will turn your piss blood red in about an hour.

I've had leftover mashed potatoes dyed magenta because I put them in in the fridge with some leftover pickled beets.
 
2011-04-04 12:27:02 PM  
Seems some of you have missed my point, but I'm not surprised. I don't give a shiat if you want to eat only nuts and roots that you picked yourself or if you want to eat nothing but rat poison. I do give a shiat when people cite studies that show correlation only as a reason to quit doing something.

Don't wanna do it? Fine. Don't use a statistical study you don't understand that doesn't say what you think it does to back your point though. It just makes you look ignorant, regardless of what your position is.

Again, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of people who've died have ingested water. Ban it now.

/Here, have some rat poison.
 
2011-04-04 12:31:33 PM  

fluffy2097: Food dyes have been around for well over 50 years.

If they actually did anything, we'd know about it, because every single baby boomer would be functionally retarded. All of their kids would be too.


There's a joke in there about Baby Boomers being retarded...

Anyway, that's only true if the effect is obvious and widespread. It could easily be something more subtle or only affect some susceptible portion of the population. There isn't any way to know without doing large studies. And in case you haven't noticed, a lot of Americans aren't exactly healthy. We suffer from different health problems from people in poor countries (where other things, like infectious disease, are a bigger issue). We don't know what all the contributing factors to all our health problems are (for example, we don't know what causes all the cancers we get). You can't just dismiss that simply because we've been using it a long time.


Poisons don't effect only 1% of the population. They effect the entire population. We have all been exposed to these chemicals and you know what? 99% have absolutely no problem with them.


You don't actually know that, and many things will affect some subpopulations more than others. Your 99% "statistic" needs some support other than just your assumption that there are no problems because you don't personally see any obvious issues.

Go back to eating things that don't cast shadows.

All I'm saying is that we need to actually be careful when allow corporations to put additives and dyes in our food supply. In case you are unaware, food additives have quite the sordid history over the last few millennia.
 
2011-04-04 12:31:38 PM  

gnumoon: kapaso: gnumoon: Just a random addition (or additive, if you prefer):

I have a small custom cookie bakery. When people ask about natural food dyes I show them the difference between regular dyes and natural ones.
I live in a very crunchy-granola, organic hippie kind of community, but every customer eventually picks the regular dyes, because they look better.

I would love for this issue to get more attention so less disgusting alternatives could be developed. I can't help but think some of the vibrant colors people ask for are bad for them. And yes, some of the dyes are petroleum-based- when one of them goes bad it smells like a vinyl shower curtain. Blecch.

I'm genuinely curious, do you have a preference for which dyes you eat?

In my everyday life, I avoid the dyes. But for the occasional treat (like a cookie at a birthday party), I'm not going to sweat it. I just wish a viable alternative were available.

No natural dye will be able to produce specific, vibrant color like this, though:


Could you teach my girlfriend how to make those? That would be super.

/Nice cookies
 
2011-04-04 12:31:45 PM  
cthulhufiles.comView Full Size


H.P. Lovecraft standing by!
 
2011-04-04 12:39:07 PM  

Damian: Seems some of you have missed my point, but I'm not surprised. I don't give a shiat if you want to eat only nuts and roots that you picked yourself or if you want to eat nothing but rat poison. I do give a shiat when people cite studies that show correlation only as a reason to quit doing something.

Don't wanna do it? Fine. Don't use a statistical study you don't understand that doesn't say what you think it does to back your point though. It just makes you look ignorant, regardless of what your position is.

Again, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of people who've died have ingested water. Ban it now.

/Here, have some rat poison.


Again, why should the burden of proof be on the people arguing that something could be harmful? Why shouldn't the obligation of proving its safety be on the people who want to put it in everything and feed it to little kids? I agree that a small correlation in a study does not imply, by itself, that something causes harm. I still don't think food corporations should be putting synthetic dyes in everything unless and until they can provide very strong evidence that it's safe.
 
2011-04-04 12:53:06 PM  

Mnemia: fluffy2097: Food dyes have been around for well over 50 years.

If they actually did anything, we'd know about it, because every single baby boomer would be functionally retarded. All of their kids would be too.


There's a joke in there about Baby Boomers being retarded...

Anyway, that's only true if the effect is obvious and widespread. It could easily be something more subtle or only affect some susceptible portion of the population. There isn't any way to know without doing large studies. And in case you haven't noticed, a lot of Americans aren't exactly healthy. We suffer from different health problems from people in poor countries (where other things, like infectious disease, are a bigger issue). We don't know what all the contributing factors to all our health problems are (for example, we don't know what causes all the cancers we get). You can't just dismiss that simply because we've been using it a long time.


Poisons don't effect only 1% of the population. They effect the entire population. We have all been exposed to these chemicals and you know what? 99% have absolutely no problem with them.

You don't actually know that, and many things will affect some subpopulations more than others. Your 99% "statistic" needs some support other than just your assumption that there are no problems because you don't personally see any obvious issues.

Go back to eating things that don't cast shadows.

All I'm saying is that we need to actually be careful when allow corporations to put additives and dyes in our food supply. In case you are unaware, food additives have quite the sordid history over the last few millennia.


I would respect Damian's argument a lot more if he didn't make up numbers and grossly exaggerate every reaction to an ingested product as obvious and immediate or else it doesn't exist at all.

If we use his logic even phenalketonuria (so) doesn't exist because we never deliberately turned a baby with markers for it into a retard.
 
2011-04-04 12:54:19 PM  

Mnemia: Again, why should the burden of proof be on the people arguing that something could be harmful? Why shouldn't the obligation of proving its safety be on the people who want to put it in everything and feed it to little kids? I agree that a small correlation in a study does not imply, by itself, that something causes harm. I still don't think food corporations should be putting synthetic dyes in everything unless and until they can provide very strong evidence that it's safe.


To be fair, science doesn't work that way. You can't prove something is safe, you can only prove that something causes harm, which usually consists of shoving increasing amounts of something into an animal until it gets sick.

Food safety is generally a big deal; any new compound added to food would have to have minimal studies showing that it isn't toxic. The effects being discussed here are much more subtle, so they wouldn't necessarily come out in those sorts of basic safety studies.

/Not a food scientist, so have some brightly colored grains of salt with that
 
2011-04-04 12:57:05 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size

RED ADAIR STANDING BY

 
2011-04-04 01:01:42 PM  
What's the reason real sugar was replaced with HFCS? Profits.

HFCS increased profits, it was not a result of consumer demand to replace sugar. The result? Greatly increased occurrence of obesity and Type II diabetes for which the costs of dealing with the problem will be paid by others outside the food industry.
 
2011-04-04 01:10:26 PM  
I've been reading this entire thread and I have to wonder what people are buying if they can't seem to avoid artificial colors. I've just checked my pantry and fridge for ingredients that I could swear had color additives, and none of them had them. Then again, I don't buy brightly colored fruity things or neon colored snacks but once in a blue moon, and those are usually for nostalgic reasons (after tasting these things, I end up reminding myself why I stopped eating them in the first place). But even food that was yellow in my cupboard were colored with annatto (a natural additive). One thing that gets me is that if you're buying something like milk that has color added to it, maybe you're buying the wrong brand.

And I don't shop anywhere special. I only go to Whole Foods once every 3 or 4 months and I hardly buy anything there anyway. I just prefer to eat foods that are not brightly colored, not very processed, or if they are, then colored with naturally derived additives. And it doesn't cost me all that much extra (considering I'm a student, I try to be cheap), because I avoid a lot of the artificial colors by avoiding processed prepared meals as much as possible and make my food from scratch.

/After rechecking, I did find one thing that had Red 40 (salad dressing) but I can easily avoid it in the future by buying the vinegar and making my own.
//Diagnosed ADHD as a child, but can cope very well with it as an adult.
 
2011-04-04 01:20:27 PM  

Pippi Longstalker: I've had leftover mashed potatoes dyed magenta because I put them in in the fridge with some leftover pickled beets.


Oh yeah. I remember eating those really really really pink/red pickled beets as a kid, the juice from them would run into the other food and make it all pink.

Various Japanese pickles are similar, pickled eggplant (the thin Japanese kind) turns blue and will dye your rice blue.

In fact in the days of homemade lunches when lots of people couldn't afford so much fancy food, it was a given that a good healthy lunch was a colorful lunch, because the only place the color was coming from would be either pickles or regular vegetables and fruit (carrots, seaweed, peppers, etc) which are all good for you. So it was sort of a "you don't need to know so much about nutrition but make your kids' lunches colorful and it's a good start" thing.
 
2011-04-04 01:26:22 PM  

hstein3: To be fair, science doesn't work that way. You can't prove something is safe, you can only prove that something causes harm, which usually consists of shoving increasing amounts of something into an animal until it gets sick.

Food safety is generally a big deal; any new compound added to food would have to have minimal studies showing that it isn't toxic. The effects being discussed here are much more subtle, so they wouldn't necessarily come out in those sorts of basic safety studies.

/Not a food scientist, so have some brightly colored grains of salt with that


But what I'm talking about isn't scientific standards of proof; it's what constitutes proper public policy on the subject of food safety. I realize that it's impossible to prove something is 100% safe, obviously, in a scientific sense. There could always be some unknown effect that is overlooked because your experiment wasn't looking for it. All I'm saying is that even given that fact, it's still preferable to have your public policy require strong evidence of safety for optional food additives like dyes. You can't "prove" they're safe, but you can provide strong evidence that they are by doing extensive testing and experiments. But "we've been using it for 50 years" is not strong evidence of safety, by itself.

Public policy is not science, nor should it be. Public policy in food safety regulation is designed to protect the public. Given that we can't know all the effects of everything, I think it's reasonable to be very cautious about what new things we allow in food (again, especially given the history of what people have been willing to put into food and sell in the past). I'm not saying this sort of thing should be absolutely banned, but I am saying that we should require some pretty rigorous testing and science before we allow it as an additive, and that the burden should fall on the food companies to demonstrate that they've investigated every possible health harm they reasonably could before marketing it. That's more along the lines of typical European public policy rather than American.
 
2011-04-04 01:26:22 PM  
Amazing thing is modern technology really can color pretty much anything. Back in the late 80's someone experimented with colored soy sauce - yep, they managed to REMOVE the dark brown natural color (I guess similar to how they can make clear Pepsi?) and then added regular bright candy dye in it, so there was a photo of a rainbow of soy sauce bottles.

It did not go over well at all, which doesn't surprise me. Candy colors you think should taste sweet, and blue soy sauce is just... not.

Here in the US for a while they were selling blue ketchup, did that ever sell well? 'Cuz it seems pretty bizarre to me..

Wollffeey: I've been reading this entire thread and I have to wonder what people are buying if they can't seem to avoid artificial colors.


I'm assuming processed food, particularly anything sweet. The red probably comes from various sauces and whatnot, though.

Also someone upthread posted about tumeric, that will definitely stain anything yellow but it's not flavorless, lots of recipes need it as an actual spice (thereby ruining most of my tupperware). The chemical yellow dyes maybe go for sweet things, again? TFA mentions pudding. Savory stuff yeah you can probably just put tumeric in it?
 
2011-04-04 01:35:02 PM  
After reading Wollffeey's post, I'm starting to consider if maybe I'm just shopping in the wrong supermarket. I'm going to try a different one this week. Thank you for the idea!
 
2011-04-04 01:35:06 PM  

Smackledorfer: I would respect Damian's argument a lot more if he didn't make up numbers and grossly exaggerate every reaction to an ingested product as obvious and immediate or else it doesn't exist at all.


I HAVE NO ARGUMENT IN THIS MATTER. I do not care about the substance of anyone's argument here. It just pisses me off when a study showing correlation is used as if it indicates a direct link between A and B in an effort to further one's position. Doing this indicates either ignorance or an intentional attempt to mislead.

Hence, my repeated statements that 100% of people who have died have inhaled nitrogen/drank water in an attempt to show the fallacy of conflating correlation and causation.

My down and dirty study shows a MASSIVE correlation between people dying and people breathing/drinking water.

People die.
In order to die, people must be alive.
In order to be alive, people must drink water.
In order to be alive, people must inhale nitrogen.
Therefore, everyone who has died has drank water and inhaled nitrogen.
Therefore, my study shows a 100% correlation between drinking water/inhaling nitrogen and dying.

Does this mean that the water and nitrogen killed all of those people and that we should stop drinking water and breathing? No, it merely shows a correlation between events (dying/drinking water/breathing) each linked to another event (being alive) but not linked to each other.

Hence, a 100% correlation, but absolutely no causation.

Now replace water/air with the bogeyman of the day and replace dying with a detrimental effect and I can show correlation between almost any two things and some people will believe that there is a causal link between the two.
 
2011-04-04 01:49:12 PM  

cptjeff: LincolnLogolas: Nothing wrong with red 40, unless you're Jewish. They tend to now call it "carmine extract" on labels now, to get Away from the synthetic sounding name. It's just bug juice. There's another red food dye, forget what they call it in food, I know it as lac. Also a bug extract. I'd trust the bug extracts more than some of the crazy synthetics.

Red 40 is the synthetic stuff, formerly made from coal tar and now made from petroleum. Carmine is labeled simply as carmine, or as natural red 40, and it's a fair bit safer then most of the crap we pump into things.

It also has a long, illustrious, and fascinating history. Pick up the book "A Perfect Red".


Done quite a bit of research into organic pigments and dyes, actually. I'll have to pick up that book, though. I was one of those crazy graduate student painters that thought "Why don't I just make my own paint?"

At the time, it was the only way to paint with egg tempera (nowadays you can get the stuff in tubes loaded with preservatives). Carmine is a bit difficult to grind into a binder, but lac... Oh, I love lac. Transparent blood red, but pH sensitive, so it'll turn purple in a slightly acidic environment.

/geek
 
2011-04-04 01:51:51 PM  
tumeric

GranoblasticMan: I prefer tumeric, parsley, and paprika as my coloring agents.

/ Seriously... Tumeric will turn you and everything you love yellow.


I like saffron for that. Though apallingly expensive, one ground up filament will dye a whole lot of stuff yellow. Works great when dying Easter eggs.
 
2011-04-04 02:08:54 PM  
Red Dragon standing by

1.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2011-04-04 02:11:44 PM  
I was allergic to Red 40 and Yellow 6 as a kid. Caused me to be crazy hyper and break out in a rash.

So, as much I hate nanny-state moves like this, I'm kind of in favor of it.
 
2011-04-04 02:22:30 PM  

signine: I was allergic to Red 40 and Yellow 6 as a kid. Caused me to be crazy hyper and break out in a rash.

So, as much I hate nanny-state moves like this, I'm kind of in favor of it.


Believing your government should keep petro chemicals out of the food supply does make you a radical left wing nutcase.
 
2011-04-04 02:23:06 PM  

jaylectricity: First off, brilliant headline. I hope this isn't a repeat.


Well I'm glad you liked it. I had tried it out the day before on this article:

Arizona governor proposes obesity fee for Medicaid patients

That I headlined as:

First Arizona came for the Mexicans, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Mexican. Then Arizona came for the fat people but you couldn't hear me speak out because my mouth was full


but it got the RED 40 treatment.
 
2011-04-04 02:34:13 PM  
artsfuse.orgView Full Size


Red Riding Hood standing by
 
2011-04-04 03:09:31 PM  

Sim Tree: After reading Wollffeey's post, I'm starting to consider if maybe I'm just shopping in the wrong supermarket. I'm going to try a different one this week. Thank you for the idea!


No problem. Hopefully you will have success.
 
2011-04-04 03:10:06 PM  

Damian: Smackledorfer: I would respect Damian's argument a lot more if he didn't make up numbers and grossly exaggerate every reaction to an ingested product as obvious and immediate or else it doesn't exist at all.

I HAVE NO ARGUMENT IN THIS MATTER. I do not care about the substance of anyone's argument here. It just pisses me off when a study showing correlation is used as if it indicates a direct link between A and B in an effort to further one's position. Doing this indicates either ignorance or an intentional attempt to mislead.

Hence, my repeated statements that 100% of people who have died have inhaled nitrogen/drank water in an attempt to show the fallacy of conflating correlation and causation.

My down and dirty study shows a MASSIVE correlation between people dying and people breathing/drinking water.

People die.
In order to die, people must be alive.
In order to be alive, people must drink water.
In order to be alive, people must inhale nitrogen.
Therefore, everyone who has died has drank water and inhaled nitrogen.
Therefore, my study shows a 100% correlation between drinking water/inhaling nitrogen and dying.

Does this mean that the water and nitrogen killed all of those people and that we should stop drinking water and breathing? No, it merely shows a correlation between events (dying/drinking water/breathing) each linked to another event (being alive) but not linked to each other.

Hence, a 100% correlation, but absolutely no causation.

Now replace water/air with the bogeyman of the day and replace dying with a detrimental effect and I can show correlation between almost any two things and some people will believe that there is a causal link between the two.



False. Your assertion fails to account for the deaths children that die very soon after birth, without ever having had anything to drink.

As a general point, whilst correlation does not equal causation, it at least doesn't refute it, and may even point to somewhere worth further investigation.
 
2011-04-04 03:22:44 PM  

GranoblasticMan: Oh no thank you. I've been around long enough to know not to do something someone told me on the internet (new window).


That was damn near Darwinian. Probably fake, but funny anyway.
 
2011-04-04 03:25:07 PM  
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size


Red Menace standing by

/or should this be in the "Union death-threat thread"?
 
2011-04-04 03:56:10 PM  

Gothnet: False. Your assertion fails to account for the deaths children that die very soon after birth, without ever having had anything to drink.


Statistical outliers. They'd be tossed from the study, but touche.

Gothnet: As a general point, whilst correlation does not equal causation, it at least doesn't refute it, and may even point to somewhere worth further investigation.


Completely agree. Just don't use it as proof.
 
2011-04-04 04:02:09 PM  
[image from pistonpost.com too old to be available]
RED WINGS STANDING BY

 
2011-04-04 06:42:43 PM  
Put me in with the "take some responsibility" group. It is NOT that hard to read the ingredients. If you dont know what something is, google it to see if you think it is ok. If not, don't buy the product. I started getting leery of high fructose corn syrup. Sooooo, I started checking labels and cutting a lot of those products out. Dyes and HFCS are often together, so the dyes have been severrely reduced in our diets, along with excessive sugars and sodium. Sure, we indulge in the occasional hot dog or bag of doritos. We do that knowing what is in there, and knowing that moderation is key.
/Yes, another opinionated chick on fark.
 
2011-04-04 07:07:05 PM  

Screw_this_life: Put me in with the "take some responsibility" group. It is NOT that hard to read the ingredients. If you dont know what something is, google it to see if you think it is ok. If not, don't buy the product. I started getting leery of high fructose corn syrup. Sooooo, I started checking labels and cutting a lot of those products out. Dyes and HFCS are often together, so the dyes have been severrely reduced in our diets, along with excessive sugars and sodium. Sure, we indulge in the occasional hot dog or bag of doritos. We do that knowing what is in there, and knowing that moderation is key.
/Yes, another opinionated chick on fark.


My motive for cutting back on dyes (as well as HFCS) had to do with my desire for a healthier diet with more whole grains, real fruits and veggies, and fresh meat. It only makes sense that when you cut out junk food, these additives become less a part of your diet.

Boyfriend still has a huge sweet tooth, though, so a lot of the nasty stuff is still in our home, I just don't touch it. If I want chocolate or chips or ice cream, I get the good stuff made with quality ingredients. I'm still getting the calories, but at least I'm not getting extra chemicals (plus, it tends to taste better, too).
 
2011-04-04 10:41:54 PM  
One problem I've found with "just read the ingredients": The number of typos I've seen on the nutrition labels and the ingredients lists is appalling, so frankly I don't have a whole lot of confidence that everything's going to be accurately listed. That's not even getting into the labels that have things like "spices" halfway in, to cover up for anything that's become unfashionable lately.

It's not going to kill companies to require warnings next to the labeling over chemicals that are under scrutiny. That's how pretty much the entire food industry already works: first they try to hide the offensive ingredient, then come the warning boxes, then come the big bold DO NOT EAT THIS IF YOU ARE PREGNANT OR A PENGUIN, then comes THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS CHEMICALS KNOWN TO CAUSE CANCER AND BIRTH DEFECTS, and then they finally get banned outright or replaced by a new chemical and the cycle starts again.

That's right, this is nothing new, just a repeat for yet another possible (not definite) toxin.

If these studies had been around at the time, Red 40 would have been included in Prop 65 in California, I'm absolutely certain.
 
2011-04-05 12:39:52 AM  

foxyshadis: If these studies had been around at the time, Red 40 would have been included in Prop 65 in California, I'm absolutely certain.


And see how that turned out.

This sign is on EVERY FARKING BUILDING IN CALIFORNIA:

exitsignwarehouse.comView Full Size


And thus the make-work racket for sign manufactures and lawyers is complete.

By plastering this sign everywhere, its intent has been diluted beyond any rational purpose. You can't go anywhere without passing one. It's basically a EULA for buildings: you ignore it as fast as you can to get to the goods you're looking for.

Mindless bureaucracy in action.
 
2011-04-05 01:34:17 AM  
airplane-pictures.netView Full Size
RED BARON
STANDING BY



/Red hot
 
2011-04-05 02:53:46 AM  

Meerlar: RED BARON
STANDING BY


Tower, I have the Fokker in sight.
 
2011-04-05 08:36:18 AM  

fluffy2097: If they actually did anything, we'd know about it, because every single baby boomer would be functionally retarded. All of their kids would be too.


img291.imageshack.usView Full Size


img62.imageshack.usView Full Size


img845.imageshack.usView Full Size


img16.imageshack.usView Full Size


img26.imageshack.usView Full Size


I can gather more evidence if you'd like.
 
2011-04-05 11:31:34 AM  
wearysloth.comView Full Size


The Red Rocker, standing by

/he'll knock your block off
 
2011-04-05 01:00:33 PM  
wizards.comView Full Size

AWAITING ORDERS...

 
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