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(Yahoo)   Farkers unite-- Let's crack this code and find a murderer. Difficulty: no reward or job offered. On the plus side, great story to tell at the Vegas party   ( news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, murder cases, FBI, San Francisco Bay Area, Robert Langdon, actual cause, zodiac  
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15534 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Mar 2011 at 5:14 AM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



435 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2011-03-30 02:15:23 PM  
I tried to find the word boundaries and structure the text a bit. I can't pull any meaning out of it but maybe this will help someone else to do so.

[image from brampwood.com too old to be available]
[image from brampwood.com too old to be available]
 
2011-03-30 02:16:26 PM  
Share Your Toys
 
2011-03-30 02:25:10 PM  
Someone tried this yesterday:

Link
 
2011-03-30 02:27:22 PM  
Let him know that you know best
Cause after all you do know best
Try to slip past his defense
Without granting innocence
Lay down a list of what is wrong
The things you've told him all along
And pray to God he hears you

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend
Somewhere along in the bitterness
And I would have stayed up with you all night
Had I known how to save a life

As he begins to raise his voice
You lower yours and grant him one last choice
Drive until you lose the road
Or break with the ones you've followed
He will do one of two things
He will admit to everything
Or he'll say he's just not the same
And you'll begin to wonder why you came

Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend
Somewhere along in the bitterness
And I would have stayed up with you all night
Had I known how to save a life

/so...'No'?
//Grey's Anatomy fan
 
2011-03-30 02:30:05 PM  
I haven't read through all the posts, but what would happen if 99.84.5 is entered as an IP address? I'm sure someone more tech than me has tried this.
 
2011-03-30 02:31:06 PM  
looks like day trader research.
 
2011-03-30 02:31:53 PM  

notdorothy: I haven't read through all the posts, but what would happen if 99.84.5 is entered as an IP address? I'm sure someone more tech than me has tried this.


You need one more octet.

/votey
 
2011-03-30 02:32:41 PM  

notdorothy: I haven't read through all the posts, but what would happen if 99.84.5 is entered as an IP address? I'm sure someone more tech than me has tried this.


Wonko Fortytwo: 99.84.5

Wonko Fortytwo: 99.84.55

* ISP: SBC Internet Services
* Organization: SBC Internet Services
* Hosted in: United States
* 1 Hosts on this IP address


If this theory were tried, and I'm not sure if this would matter, could it have been owned by a different entity in 1999?
 
2011-03-30 02:33:17 PM  

Joe The Plumber: Jello Fever: ENOPFSENLSRENCBE NTEGDDMNSENCURERCBRNE

Goddamn sense?


Goddamn sense cure RC brain event.
 
2011-03-30 02:34:24 PM  
JustAnotherFarker 2011-03-30 02:15:23 PM
I tried to find the word boundaries and structure the text a bit. I can't pull any meaning out of it but maybe this will help someone else to do so.
============================================================

// It really looks like the directions to a hidden stash of "booty"
drugs or cash.
when deal went bad, the courier was not given the key, got killed.
how else would someone without official, legal protections ensure money was received for the stash, before its location was disclosed?

Treasure Island FTW
 
2011-03-30 02:35:57 PM  
wordans.comView Full Size
 
2011-03-30 02:38:42 PM  

Lesbian Trapped in a Mans Body: notdorothy: I haven't read through all the posts, but what would happen if 99.84.5 is entered as an IP address? I'm sure someone more tech than me has tried this.

You need one more octet.

/votey


However, the 99.84.5.* IP range seems to belong to AT&T, for PPPoX use, based on whois info...
 
2011-03-30 02:45:50 PM  

RobSeace: 99.84.5.*


I added the 2 before the une and found this. Location near Wichita, KS . On NW 120th Street. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. The plot thickens.

IP Details for 99.84.5.2

Quick Links:


General IP Information
Hostname: adsl-99-84-5-2.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net
ISP: SBC Internet Services
Organization: SBC Internet Services
Proxy: None detected
Type: Broadband
Assignment: Static IP


Geolocation Information
Country: United States
Latitude: 38
Longitude: -97
 
2011-03-30 02:48:53 PM  

dittybopper:
You want to know another elegant (but less secure) method of encryption/decryption? The Strip Cipher.


worthless without a pole.
 
2011-03-30 02:49:22 PM  
Looking at this little bit:

i256.photobucket.comView Full Size


I'm guessing instructions on taking his medication. I'm going with the theory that most of the "E"s are actually similar to the word "STOP" in a telegraph. They might be a separator for a thought, word, or phrase. Perhaps they stand for "End".

Things I think I'm seeing at the beginning of this section:
"... Nurse 1 and 2 in trial. RC (??) burns." Then later on I can imagine I see notes on when to take his meds, how many times, etc.

I agree with many that it's not so much a secret code, but is probably his own shorthand to help him remember things like his medication, his doctor appointments, etc.
 
2011-03-30 02:56:41 PM  

asciibaron: dittybopper:
You want to know another elegant (but less secure) method of encryption/decryption? The Strip Cipher.

worthless without a pole.


OK, here you go:

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size


What a cipher Pole might look like.
 
2011-03-30 02:59:12 PM  
As others have said, it's unlikely to be a true cypher or code. I'm reasonably certain the FBI and/or NSA could have figured out a real cypher by now. It's more likely to be a sort of private language or shorthand.

Codes or cyphers are less likely because (IMO) few people would be paranoid enough (especially in 1999) to bother using decent encryption for mundane information.



TFNRV WNSIA DOORN MESNE IHGEE
DCMWG HOKTE ATONL TRRKT OTLGM
NETMR TDNXH RRIHN RHFEM DTDTH
RHITA GMOAI HEOYI ETNEF FESFE
IHOHE DEEOL TXBLN EFPZJ EHGSO
LITON EENRL OSXRL OORLG MGQAK
RESKR ORORD XDHOA RHOUX FNIAT
XHRBL IEUYT RHNMO OAINN WANLO
IENNO XISCM NLNXH DAEOO NRSED
HDEEN NRGDB XJTDN GVDSE SLXRM
EKDXO EORTE DITOI AKUEO SEEED
ILNTE FLAIF RWIHR TNHNN BLVFP



A computer algorithm could probably crack the above fairly quickly, and even this weak attempt at encryption is cumbersome and inefficient for sender and recipient.

Another problem with manual cyphers/codes is the issue of human fallability. Fail to properly copy the encrypted text could cause significant issues for the intended recipient.
 
pc
2011-03-30 02:59:35 PM  
Just saw this on /b/:

It is a shorthand log of historic episodes in the mid seventies on (page 1, actually written second, but numbered one to keep events in chrono order) and medications taken with the effects listed. The key at the end is day week month year morning day latenight. It was started on page 2 and then page 1 was added as a log of the earlier childhood which is the basis for diagnosis and the "page 2" is indepth records of changes in meds. The 3 month periods are normal with bipolar episodes in the 4th QTR (September through December in the seventies. These seasons suggest seasonal disorder.

ALPNTE GLSE-SE ERTE

A: Latenight, Phenergan, taken in evening G: Latenight Serenace/Seroquel or Seroquel/Serenace Extended Release Taken Evening

VLSE MTSE-CTSE-WSE-FRTSE
V: Late Serenace Morning take Serenace

On page 1 are lists of manic episodes

(FLRSEPRSEONDE71NCBE)

From late september really severe episode on December 1971: No cause before episode
(CDNSEPRSEONSF/DE74NCBE)

Chronic Depression in September, really severe episode on the start of December in 1974, no cause before episode

26MLSE74SPRKSE29KENOSOLE173R7RSE

2x 6mg Serenace in 1974 or 2x 600mg Seroquel in 1974
99-84.B2UNEPLSENCRSEAOLTSENSKSENRSE

1999 through 1988
NSREOUSEPUTSEWLDUCBE(3XORL)

D-W-M-YH/MD/IL XDRLX
Day weekday month year: morning day or latenight
 
2011-03-30 02:59:56 PM  
the best answer is the most obvious - look who is investigating the crime - racketeering. he was a courier for a bookie and these are debts
 
2011-03-30 03:03:57 PM  
I'll opt for:

take a look at this fine creation
and enjoy it better with appreciation
crows, ghosts, the midnight coast
the wonders of the world
mysteries the most

or

In this truck is a man whose latent genius, if unleashed, would rock the nation, whose dynamic energy would overpower those around him. Better let him sleep?
 
2011-03-30 03:06:17 PM  

Lesbian Trapped in a Mans Body: ISP: SBC Internet Services
Organization: SBC Internet Services


SBC merged with AT&T a while back, so it's now really AT&T...


NetRange: 99.84.4.0 - 99.84.7.255
CIDR: 99.84.4.0/22
OriginAS:
NetName: SBC-99-84-4-0-22-0909133129
NetHandle: NET-99-84-4-0-1
Parent: NET-99-0-0-0-1
NetType: Reassigned
RegDate: 2009-09-13
Updated: 2009-09-13
Ref: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-99-84-4-0-1

CustName: PPPoX Pool - se8.lsan03-1252884660
Address: 22nd Floor Attn:IP Management
City: Dallas
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 75202
Country: US
RegDate: 2009-09-13
Updated: 2011-03-19
Ref: http://whois.arin.net/rest/customer/C02315008

OrgTechHandle: IPADM2-ARIN
OrgTechName: IPAdmin ATT Internet Services
OrgTechPhone: +1-800-648-1626
OrgTechEmail: i­p­ad­m­in­[nospam-﹫-backwards]tta­*c­om
OrgTechRef: http://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/IPADM2-ARIN

OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE6-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Abuse ATT Internet Services
OrgAbusePhone: +1-800-648-1626
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse[nospam-﹫-backwards]tt­a*n­e­t
OrgAbuseRef: http://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/ABUSE6-ARIN

OrgNOCHandle: SUPPO-ARIN
OrgNOCName: Support ATT Internet Services
OrgNOCPhone: +1-888-510-5545
OrgNOCEmail: ip­admi­n[nospam-﹫-backwards]c­bs­*co­m
OrgNOCRef: http://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/SUPPO-ARIN

RNOCHandle: SUPPO-ARIN
RNOCName: Support ATT Internet Services
RNOCPhone: +1-888-510-5545
RNOCEmail: ip­admi­n[nospam-﹫-backwards]c­bs­*co­m
RNOCRef: http://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/SUPPO-ARIN

RAbuseHandle: ABUSE6-ARIN
RAbuseName: Abuse ATT Internet Services
RAbusePhone: +1-800-648-1626
RAbuseEmail: abuse[nospam-﹫-backwards]tt­a*n­e­t
RAbuseRef: http://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/ABUSE6-ARIN

RTechHandle: IPADM2-ARIN
RTechName: IPAdmin ATT Internet Services
RTechPhone: +1-800-648-1626
RTechEmail: i­p­ad­m­in­[nospam-﹫-backwards]tta­*c­om
RTechRef: http://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/IPADM2-ARIN
 
2011-03-30 03:06:21 PM  

dittybopper:
What a cipher Pole might look like.


couldn't have done it without this guy

darknerd.co.ukView Full Size
 
2011-03-30 03:07:35 PM  

Wenchmaster: As others have said, it's unlikely to be a true cypher or code. I'm reasonably certain the FBI and/or NSA could have figured out a real cypher by now. It's more likely to be a sort of private language or shorthand.


I agree with your conclusion, but not the assumption. Even relatively simple ciphers and codes can stymie even the professionals if there isn't a lot of ciphertext to work with, and there really isn't a lot here.

Codes or cyphers are less likely because (IMO) few people would be paranoid enough (especially in 1999) to bother using decent encryption for mundane information.


You must be pretty young. A minority have always been that paranoid.
 
2011-03-30 03:10:32 PM  

The Bananadragon: I also thought the 99.84.5 might be a convergence of highways somewhere along the way, and I found an intersection in Portland, OR where I-84 meets I-5 ... and the ramp-tangle happens right over SR 99. I have no idea what that has to do with anything, but it's nifty.


There are a few problems with that. 99E is the name, and it passes over I-84 on MLK and Grand, which is a little bit east of the interchange.

It also seems pretty unlikely he'd be putting in a note about the east side of Portland from half the country away.
 
2011-03-30 03:13:30 PM  
pc 2012-03-30 02:59:35 PM
Just saw this on /d/:

It is a shorthand log of historic episodes in the mid seventies on (page 1, actually written second, but numbered one to keep events in chrono order) and medications taken with the effects listed. The key at the end is day week month year morning day latenight. It was started on page 2 and then page 1 was added as a log of the earlier childhood which is the basis for diagnosis and the "page 2" is indepth records of changes in meds. The 3 month periods are normal with bipolar episodes in the 4th QTR (September through December in the seventies. These seasons suggest seasonal disorder.
=================================================================

// A tempting hypothesis, viable to someone who takes a lot of meds. which is pretty much most of /d.
does that reasonably
explain the manner of death, and location ?

[how do you type the backwards d?]
 
2011-03-30 03:13:46 PM  

davidphogan: 99.84.5


Also found this.
99.84.5 - French - Scarlett BEAUVALET, Centre Roland Mousnier, Paris IV-Sorbonne, 1 rue Victor-Cousin, 75230 Paris Cedex 05 (France), and Pierre BOUTOUYRIE, Service de Pharmacologie, Hôpital Broussais, Paris (France)

Translates to Department of Pharmacology, Broussais Hospital.

Why would the drug companies want this man dead????????
 
2011-03-30 03:14:57 PM  

JSTACAT: [how do you type the backwards d?]


Shift/Alt/Tab and d
 
2011-03-30 03:16:00 PM  
dittybopper: I agree with your conclusion, but not the assumption. Even relatively simple ciphers and codes can stymie even the professionals if there isn't a lot of ciphertext to work with, and there really isn't a lot here.

Agreed. I was operating under the unspoken assumption that the Feebs would have had access to further samples, since TFA said the victim had been doing it for years. Assuming the Feebs had access to more samples, I have faith that they could have broken mundane-use encryption. Since they claim to have failed, I further assumed that the sample was not actually encoded or encrypted but rather personalized shorthand meant only for the author's use.

"Codes or cyphers are less likely because (IMO) few people would be paranoid enough (especially in 1999) to bother using decent encryption for mundane information."

You must be pretty young. A minority have always been that paranoid.


I grant a minority (see underlined words above from original) have always been that paranoid. Perhaps I can't force myself into that mindset enough to properly assess the likelihood. I'm probably older than you are, however
 
2011-03-30 03:21:00 PM  

Regnad Kcin: NTENTE GLSE-SE ERTE
EYSE MTSE-CTSE-WSE-FRTSE
VOETRSE ONDRSEWLD NCBE
EURDZLRCMSPNEWLDSTSMEXL
RDTMT6TUNSE NCBEXC
(GOYSAISTENMUNARSE)
OWOE-LRSTE-TRSE-TRSE-MKSEN-MRSE
(NNU6NSE SE NMBSE)
NNNRCBRNSEPTE2PTEWSREBKNSE
AEMLSE74SPRKSE29KENOSOLE173RTRSE
GV6LE CLGSEOUNUTKEDKRSE PSESHLE
IE1MTCSEHTLSENCUTCTRS NMRE
VR.84.5 5UNEPLSENCRSEADLTSENSKSENBSE
EGREONSE PVTSEWLDNCBE (3XORL)
YOSENRSEIN2NTRLERCBRNSENTSRCRBNE
ONPNSENGSPSEMKSEKBSEPCBEAVXL'RUNCRENMREFCBE 1/2MUNDPLSE
U-A-M14HIL XDRLX
(PRDMKNEARSE-N-S-M-KNARE)
NURHENPINSENPBSERCBBNSENPRSEINC
ENSENMRSE DPREHLDWLDNCBE(TFXLFTCXLNCBE)
VA-PRPPITXLYPPIYNCBE MGKSEWCDRCBRNSEPRSE
ERDRCBRNSE NTSSHENTXSE-CRSLE-CLTRSEWLDNCBE
ROWLDNCBETSMELRSERLSEURGLNEASNWLDNCBE
(GUPFSENLSRENCBE)NTEGDDMNSENCURERCBRNE
(ONNETFRNE NCBRTSENCBEING)
(NDRSEPQSEONDE71NCBE)
(NANSEPRSEONSDE74NCBE)
(ANTSEPRSEONREDE75NCBE)
(LDNQCMSPSOLEMRDELUSE TOTEWLDN1HLDNCBE)
(ED4WLD'SNCBE)(TRFXL)


Hang on, I think I've got something.

Oh, no. Noooooo!


It's a COOKBOOK!!!!
 
2011-03-30 03:27:50 PM  
High school dropout?
Could read and write, ok.
Language: Bad Spelling english. (sic)

Other attempts focus at cracking a "code" what if it isn't encoded so much as written for an audience of one? Each letter represents the initial letter of the word the author wants to remember.
IE NCBE = Nobody Can Believe Everything
It was a phrase he used often.
 
2011-03-30 03:30:53 PM  

Wenchmaster: I'm probably older than you are, however


44.
 
2011-03-30 03:35:13 PM  
Oof, why don't they just ask the killer what it says? That would be the most obvious way to figure it out.

Or, are they trying to say they don't know who the killer is? Well then, this is clever. You put the notes out there, and the killer, hoping to gain notoriety for cracking the code, contacts the FBI to let them know what it says. And, voila! They have him! The FBI is good.
 
2011-03-30 03:36:58 PM  
dittybopper: 44.

47.

/Wounded, old, and dangerous
 
2011-03-30 03:43:19 PM  
I think NCBE has to to with Canterbury Enterprises in St. Louis, Mo. (in Canterbury Enterprises, inc.) I think it is a list of opportunities available to him. At one point he shorthands "God-damn insecure Brain". He noted they needed floor person on 7/1 (July 1) a card sealer person (or candy selling person for a 4th of July event) on the 4th and a Parts Person on the 5th. Al of the Services Canterbury Provides.

They have been around for a while so if this guy was a special needs person, it could just be a boring list of opportunities and people and places he needs to be for Canterbury Enterprises, Inc.

The main thing to remember in this shorthand is that he is probably dyslexic. Most of the note makes sense if you are slightly dyslexic. It also looks like he will write something slightly longer-hand to begin with and condense it as he memorizes his custom shorthand meanings. You can see that happening with Caterbury Enterprises Inc. getting shortened to CBE towards the end of the note.
 
2011-03-30 03:45:05 PM  
Page one is solved:

P1


Why is The Horse Whisper (or is it not) a good film? To answer this, look in more detail at the following scenes:
• the set-up (the opening) - what we see, hear and understand. Note the viewpoint - the riders, the truck driver, the way they come together
• how horrific injuries to Pilgrim are depicted (the horse was not really hurt in the filming)
• scenes where Tom and Grace work with Pilgrim
• the conclusion/climax to the film
• how well the novel has been adapted - is this a film for viewers of both sexes?
• How well does the film depict technical aspects of horsemanship and training horses?
• How well does this film compare with other horse films (such as National Velvet, International Velvet, Black Beauty and so on)?
• Finish your response with a personal evaluation - what you liked about the film, and why.
In writing about The Horse Whisperer you may use reviews from magazines or Web sites.
 
2011-03-30 03:47:03 PM  

dittybopper: Carousel Beast: I want to preface this because I've found your posts to be fascinating and educational, and I genuinely appreciate them.

But...

WTF do you do in life that requires so much secrecy?!?!?!??

Absolutely nothing. It was an intellectual exercise. It's one thing to read about how something is or was done, and another to try it for yourself.

Having said that, it's not a bad thing to know that you can, if need be, communicate in perfect secrecy (at least in regards to the contents of the message) in a cheap way that if properly used is now and will forever be completely unbreakable.


That is an excellent answer and I appreciate it.

This thread has been wonderful. Thanks again for your contributions! :)
 
2011-03-30 04:03:25 PM  

Wenchmaster: dittybopper: 44.

47.

/Wounded, old, and dangerous


OK, you got me beat, but not by much. And I probably have a more dangerous haircut.
 
2011-03-30 04:13:33 PM  

Happy Hours: BLIXX: Good point. I think a normal person walks around with highly encrypted pieces of paper.

Absolutely.
It's my list of passwords hidden in a word find.


NORMAL

person.
 
2011-03-30 04:23:25 PM  
TRFXL!
 
2011-03-30 04:29:07 PM  
I'm not going to read this entire thread to see if anyone got this yet or not, but NCBE is definitely WORK.

His handwriting is atrocious, so it's hard to tell his Ls from his Cs, but I'm pretty sure the last line is:

194 WCD's NCBE = 194 DON'T WORK

I'm pretty sure in his language he used the same amount of letters as the corresponding word in English. He also used the same fake word every time. However, I don't think there's any rhyme or reason to what letters he used to make up his own words.
 
2011-03-30 04:33:03 PM  
Has anyone mentioned yet that it might be an alien instructional text utilizing human flesh as the main ingredient?

/TO SERVE MAN
//IT'S A COOKBOOK!
//shaddup already.
 
2011-03-30 04:42:40 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: I've got a partial translation:


"NOW I HAVE A MACHINE GUN"
 
2011-03-30 04:53:10 PM  
Further
I like a combination crypto/shorthand style, but also PRSEON looks a lot like a person, so could we have a combo of shorthand, with crypto, with egregious misspellings?
 
2011-03-30 05:03:36 PM  
Just when I think i'm getting somewhere with it, the rules seem to change... IT'S PISSIN ME OFF!
 
2011-03-30 05:12:27 PM  
There are misspellings. For instance, I beliece that TFXL referred to in the second line of body text is supposed to be the same word as TRFXC at the very end of the note. I think he just left out a letter while writing fast and his Cs and Ls are hard to tell apart. However, none of it is shorthand, so don't be fooled by anything that appears to be English. He definitely coded everything and stuck to it.

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Further
I like a combination crypto/shorthand style, but also PRSEON looks a lot like a person, so could we have a combo of shorthand, with crypto, with egregious misspellings?

 
2011-03-30 05:15:37 PM  
On first glance, I thought I'd skipped to the Politics tab.
 
2011-03-30 05:25:03 PM  

ffacker: There are misspellings. For instance, I beliece that TFXL referred to in the second line of body text is supposed to be the same word as TRFXC at the very end of the note. I think he just left out a letter while writing fast and his Cs and Ls are hard to tell apart. However, none of it is shorthand, so don't be fooled by anything that appears to be English. He definitely coded everything and stuck to it.

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Further
I like a combination crypto/shorthand style, but also PRSEON looks a lot like a person, so could we have a combo of shorthand, with crypto, with egregious misspellings?


Well I'm not so sure it's done in a hurry. The misspelling possibly, but he spent the time to try and correct a few. I do think you are correct on the TRFXL.

What's really bugging me, is the punction. There is none except at the very end of page 1 or PI where he puts WLD'S there is no other.
 
2011-03-30 05:37:12 PM  
NCBE might stand for the National Confrence of Bar Examiners
I also crossrefrenced the word WLD, which appear before almost every NCBE (WLDNCBE). I come up with alot of lawyer refrences. Find lawyers and such.
The last line of page one has
194 WLD'SNCBE
which could fit theres 194 laweyrs on the National Confrence of Bar Examiners in 1999
wish i had history of the vitim to see if that has any link
 
2011-03-30 05:41:11 PM  

BLIXX: ffacker: There are misspellings. For instance, I beliece that TFXL referred to in the second line of body text is supposed to be the same word as TRFXC at the very end of the note. I think he just left out a letter while writing fast and his Cs and Ls are hard to tell apart. However, none of it is shorthand, so don't be fooled by anything that appears to be English. He definitely coded everything and stuck to it.

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Further
I like a combination crypto/shorthand style, but also PRSEON looks a lot like a person, so could we have a combo of shorthand, with crypto, with egregious misspellings?

Well I'm not so sure it's done in a hurry. The misspelling possibly, but he spent the time to try and correct a few. I do think you are correct on the TRFXL.

What's really bugging me, is the punction. There is none except at the very end of page 1 or PI where he puts WLD'S there is no other.


There is punctiation, it's just coded. There are strange marks in that top parenthetical. Then there are marks, which I believe show series, in the parenths on the second line. There's a couple more dots and quiggles throughout.
 
2011-03-30 05:45:22 PM  
A always comes after NCBE
 
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