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(Yahoo)   Farkers unite-- Let's crack this code and find a murderer. Difficulty: no reward or job offered. On the plus side, great story to tell at the Vegas party   ( news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, murder cases, FBI, San Francisco Bay Area, Robert Langdon, actual cause, zodiac  
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15533 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Mar 2011 at 5:14 AM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



435 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2011-03-30 11:56:41 AM  

dittybopper: You want to know another elegant (but less secure) method of encryption/decryption? The Strip Cipher.


**strokes chin thoughtfully**

I've learned something today. Thanks.
 
2011-03-30 11:57:39 AM  
- Victim isn't a hot blonde white girl? WTF is this? :b
- It's a great story, but not one you'll tell at the Fark party. I can hear the police now: "The FBI couldn't crack it, so the only person who could would be the person who wrote it."
 
2011-03-30 11:58:13 AM  

21-7-b:
2lib4me
Calling all code crackers: The FBI needs your help.
Isn't this raciest, code "cracker". I am totally amazed that some leftwing liberal, progressive has not brought this to the Obama media state run press and blamed the raciest TEA party.
I am sure if it was, calling all " code-chuckers", it would be all over the place.
He or she who clams racism is most likely the raciest.



i105.photobucket.comView Full Size


Reviewer's Note: It's pretty racy, but I don't know if it's truly the raciest.
 
2011-03-30 11:59:28 AM  
The Envoy Quote 2011-03-30 11:55:57 AM
dittybopper: It's so deviously simple, you'll kick yourself for not trying....

You know what, looking at the wiki on it I gave up as soon as I started. Given the effort you quite clearly went to to type that all out (I even appreciated the "mom" joke!) I resolved to give it a go. I won't say my understanding is perfect, far from it, but it helped a huge amount. You have my honest and sincere gratitude for teaching me something new. Thanks!


PanicMan Quote 2011-03-30 11:56:41 AM
dittybopper: You want to know another elegant (but less secure) method of encryption/decryption? The Strip Cipher.

**strokes chin thoughtfully**

I've learned something today. Thanks.


It was my pleasure.
 
2011-03-30 12:02:18 PM  
i40.tinypic.comView Full Size


They're recipes.
 
2011-03-30 12:02:48 PM  
SOLVED IT! (new window)
 
2011-03-30 12:06:02 PM  
People have commented that se ends some of these sentences like in "pig latin". Actually, why not just regular latin? As in Spanish?
 
2011-03-30 12:07:36 PM  
I make it out to be "Secret plans hidden Hilda's desk".
 
2011-03-30 12:08:34 PM  
FloydA

i blame the obama media state run [printing] press
 
2011-03-30 12:09:15 PM  
Er. Wouldn't it be helpful to have examples of his other notes?
 
2011-03-30 12:12:05 PM  
shiat, that looks a lot like my handwriting....
 
2011-03-30 12:12:38 PM  
Cipher? Don't a lot of high school seniors write like this?
 
2011-03-30 12:13:19 PM  

dittybopper: Why bother? Pick a short memorable word*, and throw 10-sided dice to generate 5 digits. Put those numbers in front of, behind, inside, or interspersed with the word. Secure enough, as the numbers are random, even if the word isn't.

*But not too short.


I'm actually talking about encrypting what all my passwords are for where, for those times I forget them, and hiding the decryption somewhere strange. Seeing as I played Resident Evil as a kid, I have some strange ideas on where to hide stuff.

/back in the day I picked my passwords by clicking random cells in a spreadsheet and stringing the values together
//work got really upset when I did that instead of just using 'admin' or something
 
2011-03-30 12:15:20 PM  

21-7-b: it's just been posted to foxnews

this should be good

samking73
yep! what was that Shakespeare line? "i think the liberal doth protest too much"

uramook
it says don't vote for the kenyan he will make a horrible senator, and a worse president

Jess
MY DAD USED TO BE A MASON, AND I THOSE CODES LOOK MASON...THEY SHOULD CONTACT THE MASONERY SOCIETY

daveyoung
If they can figure this out, maybe the same kids can find out the details of Barack`s campaign kickbacks from ACORN

2lib4me
Calling all code crackers: The FBI needs your help.
Isn't this raciest, code "cracker". I am totally amazed that some leftwing liberal, progressive has not brought this to the Obama media state run press and blamed the raciest TEA party.
I am sure if it was, calling all " code-chuckers", it would be all over the place.
He or she who clams racism is most likely the raciest.

joeblk
somebody here should be able to do this with ease....and it wont be a LIb neither....lol


Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. What a bunch of mental giants they are.
 
2011-03-30 12:16:01 PM  
It's all a big sham to distract your attention from ghaddafi.
 
2011-03-30 12:16:19 PM  
they don't like it when you argue for the other side over at fox. not very fair and balanced
 
2011-03-30 12:17:25 PM  

Pickerel: I'm actually talking about encrypting what all my passwords are for where, for those times I forget them, and hiding the decryption somewhere strange. Seeing as I played Resident Evil as a kid, I have some strange ideas on where to hide stuff.


Since I'm in a relatively high-tech place, I use low-tech solutions. I write the damn things down in a Harry Potter notebook that I keep on my desk. Because man, what self-respecting tech thief is going to bother to come to my crappy-ass cube and look in a Harry Potter notebook? :P

/Especially if he can't find it under all the crap I keep on my desk
//Security through obscurity! :P
 
2011-03-30 12:18:45 PM  

Regnad Kcin: NTENTE GLSE-SE ERTE
EYSE MTSE-CTSE-WSE-FRTSE
VOETRSE ONDRSEWLD NCBE
EURDZLRCMSPNEWLDSTSMEXL
RDTMT6TUNSE NCBEXC
(GOYSAISTENMUNARSE)
OWOE-LRSTE-TRSE-TRSE-MKSEN-MRSE
(NNU6NSE SE NMBSE)
NNNRCBRNSEPTE2PTEWSREBKNSE
AEMLSE74SPRKSE29KENOSOLE173RTRSE
GV6LE CLGSEOUNUTKEDKRSE PSESHLE
IE1MTCSEHTLSENCUTCTRS NMRE
VR.84.5 5UNEPLSENCRSEADLTSENSKSENBSE
EGREONSE PVTSEWLDNCBE (3XORL)
YOSENRSEIN2NTRLERCBRNSENTSRCRBNE
ONPNSENGSPSEMKSEKBSEPCBEAVXL'R
UNCRENMREFCBE 1/2MUNDPLSE
U-A-M14HIL XDRLX
(PRDMKNEARSE-N-S-M-KNARE)
NURHENPINSENPBSERCBBNSENPRSEINC
ENSENMRSE DPREHLDWLDNCBE(TFXLFTCXLNCBE)
VA-PRPPITXLYPPIYNCBE MGKSEWCDRCBRNSEPRSE
ERDRCBRNSE NTSSHENTXSE-CRSLE-CLTRSEWLDNCBE
ROWLDNCBETSMELRSERLSEURGLNEASNWLDNCBE
(GUPFSENLSRENCBE)NTEGDDMNSENCURERCBRNE
(ONNETFRNE NCBRTSENCBEING)
(NDRSEPQSEONDE71NCBE)
(NANSEPRSEONSDE74NCBE)
(ANTSEPRSEONREDE75NCBE)
(LDNQCMSPSOLEMRDELUSE TOTEWLDN1HLDNCBE)
(ED4WLD'SNCBE)(TRFXL)


Hang on, I think I've got something.

Oh, no. Noooooo!


I see I'm late as usual.

/Shakes late and tiny fist
 
2011-03-30 12:22:51 PM  
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
 
2011-03-30 12:23:08 PM  
It is a red herring.

Why kill someone, and then stuff their pockets with encrypted messages?

Obviously, to throw the cops off track.
 
2011-03-30 12:23:45 PM  
a lot of the letter combinations are engineering related stock exchanges it seems and 99.84.5 could possibly be section 5 of the 1999 occupational health and safety manual

http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubStatbook.ns​f/b051450 7 3fa2a882ca256da4001bc4e7/3B116180389A64FBCA256E5B0021A715/$FILE/99-084​sr.pdf

Wonder where he worked before his death? This could be like the first wikileaks attempt. He had information on his company that would cause problems and was removed from office so to speak
 
2011-03-30 12:26:55 PM  
statute 99.84.5 also has to do with municipal housing in missouri.
 
2011-03-30 12:42:44 PM  
St. Louis? empty field?
failed drug deal...
 
2011-03-30 12:44:33 PM  

Al_Ed: Here's a possible clue to solving this...

Link (new window)



I haven't seen this in literally decades!

It makes me wonder though ... why do college-age girls need to learn the alphabet?
 
2011-03-30 12:44:54 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Cipher? Don't a lot of high school seniors write like this?


College students do too, but they sometimes add a bibliography before turning it in.
 
2011-03-30 12:44:58 PM  

lionfish: One page:

ALPNTE GLSE-SE ERTE
VLSE MTSE-CTSE-WSE-FRTSE
PNRTRSE ONDRSEWLD NCBE
NWLDZLRCMSPNEWLDSTSMEXL
DULMT6TUNSE NCBEXC
(MUNSAISTENMUNARSE)
KLSE-LRSTE-TRSE-TRSE-MKSEN-MRSE
(SAE6NSE SE NMBSE)
NMNRCBRNSEPTE2PTEWSREBKNSE
26MLSE74SPRKSE29KENOSOLE173RTRSE
356LE CLGSEOUNUTKEDKRSE PSESHLE
651MTCSEHTLSENCUTCTRS NMRE
99.84.5 5UNEPLSENCRSEADLTSENSKSENBSE
NSREONSE PVTSEWLDNCBE (3XORL)
NMSENRSEIN2NTRLERCBRNSENTSRCRBNE
LSPNSENGSPSEMKSEKBSEPCBEAVXL'R
HMCRENMREFCBE 1/2MUNDPLSE
D-W-M14HIL XDRLX


I numbered the alphabet and lined up the first part of gibberish and assigned each letter a number. I did a google search for the number that matched up, 1121614205. And It returns a ISBN number for this book.


Crimes & Punishment Illustrated Encyclopedia V26 from amazon "This is a lurid and sensational account of a score of grisly murders, arranged alphabetically by subject (hence, the "encyclopedia" tag).
by H S Stuttman
HARDCOVER | H S STUTTMAN INC PUBLISHERS
ISBN: 1121614205


Coincidence?
 
2011-03-30 12:50:18 PM  
The letter combinations preclude it from being a proto-language form for either a native speaker of English, Spanish, or Korean... and watching my Korean friend trying to pronounce "NURHENPINSENPBSERCBBNSENPRSEINC" is HILARIOUS! This doesn't preclude it from being a bit of a ritual to wake the Old Ones. Feel free to proceed now with the attempts to crack it like a code now, instead of approaching it from a linguistic platform.

/I chose English and Spanish tests because those are the dominant language patterns in the area where it was found. The choice of Korean was based both on availability of test material (the aforementioned friend) and on the Korean language having properties of both Chinese and Japanese language patterns.
//The test was, basically, "Hey, can you read this out loud for me?" in an attempt to get a native speakers interpretation of the letter combinations. Not being able to pronounce more than a third of it disqualified it from being a proto-language of the native speakers pattern.
 
2011-03-30 12:51:43 PM  

Theory Of Null: Crimes & Punishment Illustrated Encyclopedia V26 from amazon "This is a lurid and sensational account of a score of grisly murders, arranged alphabetically by subject (hence, the "encyclopedia" tag).
by H S Stuttman
HARDCOVER | H S STUTTMAN INC PUBLISHERS
ISBN: 1121614205


Coincidence?


Certainly could be, but interesting for that to show up either way.
 
2011-03-30 12:55:16 PM  
Testimony:

Number runner? Probably not. Too low rent for murder.
Writing these notes since childhood? Not likely, probably lying.

It appears that NCBE and PRSE are specific services that have specific costs associated. If these were abbreviations since childhood, he would have simplified them. Acronyms for services change with time. Check urbandictionary.

The hard part is decoding the list of client names associated with the services. That would give a clue to the murderer.
 
2011-03-30 01:04:03 PM  

Squawky: This is obviously a test to recruit new MIB agents.


/hot like that flashy thing


I accidentally left this off in my "World's fair" comment. If the crime occurred in 1999. That would make sense... the movie came out in 1997.
 
2011-03-30 01:04:21 PM  
APT TEN G-STREET E?
 
2011-03-30 01:05:44 PM  

olddinosaur: It is a red herring.

Why kill someone, and then stuff their pockets with encrypted messages?

Obviously, to throw the cops off track.


Nah, lots of killers secretly want to get caught. Berkowitz sent tons of stuff to the cops, and there's even a wild a$$ theory that Jack the Ripper may have been the Reverend Charles Lutwidge Dodgson: aka Lewis Carroll.

No, this means something. Human beings don't randomize well.

/I really wish I were smarter.
//Especially right now.
 
2011-03-30 01:07:05 PM  
Boobies?
 
2011-03-30 01:11:22 PM  

Delay: It appears that NCBE and PRSE are specific services that have specific costs associated. If these were abbreviations since childhood, he would have simplified them. Acronyms for services change with time. Check urbandictionary.


I don't know if it's specific services, but I agree those are abbreviations of something.

The entire message is all farked up, IMO. Too many repetitions, which leads me to believe a list of short notes with abbreviations, rather than a more easily-deciphered note, with proper alphabetic distribution.

/Someone's probably already said this upthread a dozen times. Sorry.
 
2011-03-30 01:12:01 PM  

Kozmopoliskepticalopsis: Al_Ed: Here's a possible clue to solving this...

Link (new window)


I haven't seen this in literally decades!

It makes me wonder though ... why do college-age girls need to learn the alphabet?


When I watched it, I wondered the same thing. Maybe it was the University of Florida.
 
2011-03-30 01:12:28 PM  

fadat: Boobies?


That would explain why this information has only surfaced 12 years later.
 
2011-03-30 01:13:45 PM  

Joe The Plumber: Sofa King Smart: rmcows?
mrcows.
rusuremrcows?
osmrcows!

MR MICE
MR KNOT
OSAR
CMBDI'S N MEDBD FEET
LIB
MR MICE!


I think that's what I was trying to remember...

I'm with the others on here that think this isn't really an 'encoded' message as much as it's this particular nut jobs personal short hand to himself... probably notes about drug deals or sports bets and who owes who what.
 
2011-03-30 01:18:30 PM  

Pickerel: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/6072985/67983761#c67983761" target="_blank">Theory Of Null</a>:</b> <i>Crimes & Punishment Illustrated Encyclopedia V26 from amazon "This is a lurid and sensational account of a score of grisly murders, arranged alphabetically by subject (hence, the "encyclopedia" tag).
by H S Stuttman
HARDCOVER | H S STUTTMAN INC PUBLISHERS
ISBN: 1121614205


Coincidence?</i>

Certainly could be, but interesting for that to show up either way.


Yeah, pretty odd for that to show up. I read a book on cryptography awhile ago and one technique used in the past was sending a key with the message that pointed to a book or magazine. They would use the book/magazine to decipher the rest of the message.

Maybe this is why it looks uncrackable? Maybe it's only partially encrypted or the key is in some book. Maybe he removed certain vowels?
 
2011-03-30 01:21:30 PM  
Just because I love you guys so much, here is a crappy webcam pic of one of the pads I've constructed, and the dice I used to make them:

i55.tinypic.comView Full Size


I used an Olivetti Lettera 32 manual typewriter to type the pad. Because I didn't have blank 2 part paper or carbon paper at the time, I had to manually duplicate the pads. I did this by making 5 groups, tabbing past the center, and just retyping the groups, then carriage return/linefeed.

The ribbon was worn enough that I doubt you can get anything off it through forensic examination, but in any case it's easily destroyed, and replacements are cheap. I chose a manual because you can't put an electronic keylogger in it, and it doesn't generate any kind of electrical signal. Plus, I had it laying around.

Obviously, page 704 is now "blown", so I can't use it for any real purpose now, but it was just a test pad anyway.

Why go to all the trouble to use completely manual methods? Because computers are not your friend when it comes to secrecy.
 
2011-03-30 01:27:48 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: No, this means something. Human beings don't randomize well.


One doesn't imply the other. I can type a bunch of "random" stuff that won't be statistically random, but it won't mean anything.

Conversely, I can make messages that *ARE* statistically indistinguishable from truly random processes, yet they mean something.
 
2011-03-30 01:33:26 PM  
We need more samples of this guys work- 2 pages is such a small sample size, and it is very unlikely to be a one time pad as he's unlikely to be carrying a key/pad/ricky racoon decoder ring with him while he's being murdered. He knew this cipher well enough to write it quickly, so either he uses a key he has memorized or could acquire again instantly- (maybe a bible or his driver's license)we need more data before throwing this much effort is likely to produce a workable solution. Oh yeah- dungeon masters have been using dice for codes since the tomb of horrors and codes get much harder from there-looking for an evil cipher /pad? try this:A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates [Paperback]
RAND Corporation (Author) -Good Luck!
 
2011-03-30 01:40:02 PM  

dittybopper: Just because I love you guys so much, here is a crappy webcam pic of one of the pads I've constructed, and the dice I used to make them:

I used an Olivetti Lettera 32 manual typewriter to type the pad. Because I didn't have blank 2 part paper or carbon paper at the time, I had to manually duplicate the pads. I did this by making 5 groups, tabbing past the center, and just retyping the groups, then carriage return/linefeed.

The ribbon was worn enough that I doubt you can get anything off it through forensic examination, but in any case it's easily destroyed, and replacements are cheap. I chose a manual because you can't put an electronic keylogger in it, and it doesn't generate any kind of electrical signal. Plus, I had it laying around.

Obviously, page 704 is now "blown", so I can't use it for any real purpose now, but it was just a test pad anyway.

Why go to all the trouble to use completely manual methods? Because computers are not your friend when it comes to secrecy.


I want to preface this because I've found your posts to be fascinating and educational, and I genuinely appreciate them.

But...

WTF do you do in life that requires so much secrecy?!?!?!??
 
2011-03-30 01:41:52 PM  
Early rough draft of this perhaps?

voynich.netView Full Size
 
2011-03-30 01:46:09 PM  
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
 
jlt
2011-03-30 01:53:12 PM  
It's a cookbook!!!
 
2011-03-30 01:58:26 PM  
Know what this reminds me of?
Garbage terms in MI (new window)
(Scroll down to the red text...)
 
2011-03-30 01:58:44 PM  

lazarustci: We need more samples of this guys work- 2 pages is such a small sample size, and it is very unlikely to be a one time pad as he's unlikely to be carrying a key/pad/ricky racoon decoder ring with him while he's being murdered.


Well, we *KNOW* it's not a one time pad, or even a sophisticated polyalphabetic cipher. A frequency count plainly shows that it's not either of those. You'd get a much "flatter" distribution if it were. Plus, there are glimmers of some kind of system, repeated digrams and such, plus the numbers, etc.

He knew this cipher well enough to write it quickly, so either he uses a key he has memorized or could acquire again instantly- (maybe a bible or his driver's license)


I'm thinking it's more along the lines of some sort of mental shorthand. Something he could understand due to his unique thought processes, but not necessarily systematic enough to succumb to the normal attacks one would use to pry open a traditional cipher.

we need more data before throwing this much effort is likely to produce a workable solution.


What we need to be able to do is associate some part of it with something in his life, so that we can use that to pry open some sort of meaning. Harder than it sounds.

Oh yeah- dungeon masters have been using dice for codes since the tomb of horrors and codes get much harder from there-looking for an evil cipher /pad? try this:A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates [Paperback]
RAND Corporation (Author) -Good Luck!


No good. It's published. Once a pad is published, it's "blown" and completely useless for secrecy purposes (though it might be useful for statistical research). All one would have to do is take those million random digits and run the ciphertext though it to see if some plaintext pops up. If you can run 1,000 checks a second, it would take less than 17 hours to exhaust all possibilities. The computer would spit out a short list of possible decrypts based upon finding plaintext words, and the true one should be pretty obvious. For a very short message, say a single 4 letter word, you might be able to get away with it because 26*26*26*26 = 456, 976, so the odds are you'll get every single 4 letter word, and which one is the right one? But for a message that runs 25 letters or more, it should be obvious.


Besides which, rolling dice to decide whether a particular attack against a creeping phlegmball is successful is entirely different from using them to communicate in perfect secrecy. I've done both (though the D&D thing predated home computers).
 
2011-03-30 02:02:12 PM  
EARTH HAS 4 CORNER
SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY
TIME CUBE
IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION.
4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH- No 1 Day God.
EVIL EDUCATORS
block and suppress
You are educated evil,
and might have to kill
the evil ONE teaching
educators before you
can learn that 4 corner
days actually exist -but
all Cube Truth denied.
Dumb ass educators fear
me and hide from debate.
Cube 4x4 voids 1 & God.
Man evolves from teenager -
in cube metamorphosis
but ignores teenager to worship a male mother,
guised in woman's garb,
churchman called father.
 
2011-03-30 02:04:29 PM  

historycat: They're directions.

I 71, I 74, and I 75 all converge in Cincinnati.


Oh, I get it now: it's just viral marketing... They're bringing back "John From Cincinnati"!

/I don't know Butchie instead...
 
2011-03-30 02:10:51 PM  

Carousel Beast: I want to preface this because I've found your posts to be fascinating and educational, and I genuinely appreciate them.

But...

WTF do you do in life that requires so much secrecy?!?!?!??


Absolutely nothing. It was an intellectual exercise. It's one thing to read about how something is or was done, and another to try it for yourself.

Having said that, it's not a bad thing to know that you can, if need be, communicate in perfect secrecy (at least in regards to the contents of the message) in a cheap way that if properly used is now and will forever be completely unbreakable.
 
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