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(Some Guy)   Why the Boy Wonder may be a good sign for The Dark Knight Rises   (shadowlocked.com) divider line
    More: Followup, The Dark Knight, Batman Begins, cash cow, close outs  
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10718 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 07 Feb 2011 at 12:03 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2011-02-07 2:18:54 PM  
I can't see everyone's pretty pictures, but if someone hasn't posted a pic of the cover of Dark Victory, please do so. It's the sequel to The Long Halloween.

It's a great story that among other things serves as an 'origins' story for Robin that worked very well. One of the better Batman books out there imho, and I say that as someone who's never really cared or felt the need for Robin one way or another.
 
JXA
2011-02-07 2:20:35 PM  

un4gvn666: Yes, because when we had Jack Nicholson hamming it up with white facepaint, people just tripped over themselves at the sheer respect for the character he exhibited.


Nicholson's Joker was a fairly accurate representation of the character as he is/was in the comics. "Hamming it up" is what the Joker does.

Ledger's Joker was practically unrecognizable, aside from the makeup. Though, I'd blame that more on the writing than on Ledger.
 
2011-02-07 2:25:03 PM  

JXA: Eapoe6: just like there is no Penguin. It simply won't work with Nolan's Batman.

I would love for someone to someday explain to me why a short, fat organized crime figure, with a big nose, who likes umbrellas and fancy dress "won't work" in Nolan's films. But a ginormous genius in a luchadore mask who's pumped full of sci-fi steroids will apparently be okay.

The Penguin is a more realistic character than BATMAN is. (Also, I think trying to make Batman realistic just makes it silly)


I never wrote anything about the Penguin. That is weird. Who are you and why are you putting words is my mouth?

Penguin is an organized crime boss. There are some opening in Gotham after the Joker went all mortgage banker on the mob.
 
2011-02-07 2:29:59 PM  

kieran57: Third movies are a tough landing to stick under the most promising of circumstances, and we've certainly seen more Return of the Jedis than Toy Story 3s.


Wait..... Did this guy diss Return of the Jedi?


Ewoks, man. Farkin' ewoks.
 
2011-02-07 2:30:28 PM  
I hope they kill the current robin
images.comiccollectorlive.comView Full Size

can't stand the little sociopath
 
JXA
2011-02-07 2:32:40 PM  

Eapoe6: I never wrote anything about the Penguin. That is weird. Who are you and why are you putting words is my mouth?


Uh, well, somebody wrote something about the Penguin and the point still stands.

I'll learn to pay more attention to who I'm quoting in the future.
 
2011-02-07 2:33:02 PM  

JXA: un4gvn666: Yes, because when we had Jack Nicholson hamming it up with white facepaint, people just tripped over themselves at the sheer respect for the character he exhibited.

Nicholson's Joker was a fairly accurate representation of the character as he is/was in the comics. "Hamming it up" is what the Joker does.

Ledger's Joker was practically unrecognizable, aside from the makeup. Though, I'd blame that more on the writing than on Ledger.


There's no single representation of the Joker.

In some comics he's a hammy criminal, in others he's a scary, amoral psychopath. The Burton version was closer to the former while the Nolan version was closer to the latter. Neither was more "correct" than the other.
 
JXA
2011-02-07 2:38:55 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: In some comics he's a hammy criminal, in others he's a scary, amoral psychopath. The Burton version was closer to the former while the Nolan version was closer to the latter. Neither was more "correct" than the other.


Jack Nicholson and Caesar Romero played very different versions of the Joker, but they were both similar to the character as he has appeared in the source.

Nolan/Ledger's Joker was pretty much entirely unique to the film. He could have been anyone, and there was nothing particularly "Joker" about him. Same with Nolan's Two-Face, really.

I don't' think Nolan writes Batman movies, so much as he writes movies, then crams Batman and related characters into them.
 
2011-02-07 2:47:10 PM  
He could have been anyone, and there was nothing particularly "Joker" about him.

I disagree. Ledger's Joker was straight out of "A Serious House on Serious Earth" or "The Killing Joke".
 
2011-02-07 2:50:06 PM  

JXA: Eapoe6: I never wrote anything about the Penguin. That is weird. Who are you and why are you putting words is my mouth?

Uh, well, somebody wrote something about the Penguin and the point still stands.

I'll learn to pay more attention to who I'm quoting in the future.


Did you hit the " " button? The font looks as though you did.

Ah, who cares. I love Batman and and will gladly discuss the Penguin. Waink Waink Waink
 
2011-02-07 2:50:26 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: JXA: un4gvn666: Yes, because when we had Jack Nicholson hamming it up with white facepaint, people just tripped over themselves at the sheer respect for the character he exhibited.

Nicholson's Joker was a fairly accurate representation of the character as he is/was in the comics. "Hamming it up" is what the Joker does.

Ledger's Joker was practically unrecognizable, aside from the makeup. Though, I'd blame that more on the writing than on Ledger.

There's no single representation of the Joker.

In some comics he's a hammy criminal, in others he's a scary, amoral psychopath. The Burton version was closer to the former while the Nolan version was closer to the latter. Neither was more "correct" than the other.


The problem I had with Nolan's version is he was not fun, I did not get a sense that the Joker was enjoying himself. I attribute that to Ledger was not enjoying playing the Joker. Sure the Joker can be a hammy criminal or blood thirsty psychopath, but the one defining characteristic is he thinks this shiat is funny and is having the time of his life.

That aspect of the Joker just did not come through in Ledger's portrayal. No Ledger's Joker made me very uncomfortable and over all dislike the movie.
 
JXA
2011-02-07 2:55:59 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: The problem I had with Nolan's version is he was not fun, I did not get a sense that the Joker was enjoying himself.


YES. THIS.

One of the things I tell people when it comes up is "He didn't laugh enough". He didn't even think his "magic trick" was funny. He was just some creepy guy in the Joker's suit.

.

Eapoe6: Did you hit the " " button? The font looks as though you did.


Yeah, I probably did. I'd love to see a non-mutant Penguin in the movies. But I'd also like Clayface or a non-Schwarzenegger Mr. Freeze. So I'd take pretty much anyone. Even Killer Moth.
 
2011-02-07 2:57:13 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Some 'Splainin' To Do: JXA: un4gvn666: Yes, because when we had Jack Nicholson hamming it up with white facepaint, people just tripped over themselves at the sheer respect for the character he exhibited.

Nicholson's Joker was a fairly accurate representation of the character as he is/was in the comics. "Hamming it up" is what the Joker does.

Ledger's Joker was practically unrecognizable, aside from the makeup. Though, I'd blame that more on the writing than on Ledger.

There's no single representation of the Joker.

In some comics he's a hammy criminal, in others he's a scary, amoral psychopath. The Burton version was closer to the former while the Nolan version was closer to the latter. Neither was more "correct" than the other.

The problem I had with Nolan's version is he was not fun, I did not get a sense that the Joker was enjoying himself. I attribute that to Ledger was not enjoying playing the Joker. Sure the Joker can be a hammy criminal or blood thirsty psychopath, but the one defining characteristic is he thinks this shiat is funny and is having the time of his life.

That aspect of the Joker just did not come through in Ledger's portrayal. No Ledger's Joker made me very uncomfortable and over all dislike the movie.


This just in: actors can display enjoyment without laughing like a ninny.
 
2011-02-07 2:58:04 PM  
I'm not sure if we need Robin, but I'd sort of like to see Bruce adopt Dick Grayson by the end of the film. I think the Dark Knight was really a continuation of the journey Bruce started in Batman Begins, and I think the third movie will push that story forward even more.

That said, he's still not REALLY Batman yet. Bruce is still trying to define what Batman is and what his place in Gotham is. He's not that walking-talking deux ex machina that we see in the comics or the JLU cartoon. He still farks up.

I've always thought one of his most interesting aspects of his personality is his role as the patriarch of the Bat Family. The idea of this psychologically scarred loner taking in strays and teaching them to be vigilantes is a huge part of his character, and I think Nolan would be wrong to ignore it completely.

I also think it's funny when you look at the way Superman treats actual blood relatives. The best he can do for his cousin and his clone is send them to live with his parents in Kansas until they get sick of being ignored and run away. He even sent his dog to his Fortress so that androids could take care of it.
 
2011-02-07 3:10:55 PM  

JXA: Nicholson's Joker was a fairly accurate representation of the character as he is/was in the comics. "Hamming it up" is what the Joker does.


No.

Read a few comics, then look at the '60s camp show, and then look at Burton's Batman.

Burton didn't make a movie adaptation of the comics. He made a dark, Gothic version of the campy '60s Batman. His Catwoman is obsessively feline in the way the TV-show character is and the comic book character *isn't*. His Joker is a murderous version of Cesar Romero. Remember the museum scene with the stereo and the spray-paint? Psychotic Cesar Romero, not comic-book Joker.

Burton freely admitted he never cracked a comic book.
 
2011-02-07 3:12:02 PM  

the_vegetarian_cannibal: thetromboner: From what I've read, seems Nolan's excuse for Robin not being around is that these are Batman's early days. I say let Nolan finish his masterpiece trilogy, then wait a while and start a new set of movies with an older batman to introduce Robin properly.

Personally, I've always been anticipating for a one-shot film adaption of Batman Beyond. Preferably with Clint Eastwood cast as the elderly Bruce Wayne.


the dark knight returns should have been made 15 years ago with Clint; instead we got that george clooney... thing
 
2011-02-07 3:18:26 PM  

bluesbox: "The Killing Joke".


Tell me you could imagine Ledger's Joker bursting out into song the way that the Joker did in Killing Joke.

I disagree that Ledger's joker isn't having fun. He obviously is having fun. He makes it clear throughout the film that he's doing this for sport, not for any higher reason, and he smiles a fair bit. But it's the quiet enjoyment of a man playing a challenging game, not a man giddy with laughter. I think the twitchiness and constant lip-licking, while they added to showing how alien and crazy he was, also filled up quiet space that would normally be used to show the Joker's manic side.
 
2011-02-07 3:32:07 PM  

the_vegetarian_cannibal: thetromboner: From what I've read, seems Nolan's excuse for Robin not being around is that these are Batman's early days. I say let Nolan finish his masterpiece trilogy, then wait a while and start a new set of movies with an older batman to introduce Robin properly.

Personally, I've always been anticipating for a one-shot film adaption of Batman Beyond. Preferably with Clint Eastwood cast as the elderly Bruce Wayne.


Opening day, I'm there.
 
2011-02-07 3:52:15 PM  
There are two types of people. People who hate Robin, and people who suck.

/Should be named Albatross, not Robin.
 
2011-02-07 4:07:04 PM  

nlscb: If for once a movie maker made worked on Batman w/o worrying about the origin story, and focused on the origin and development of Robin, it might work. Robin is a great character when handled properly (BATMAN TAS and BATMAN BEYOND RETURN OF THE JOKER he's fantastic).

But it's not going to work if Nolan is only going to do 3 films.


Exactly this. Robin has been handled very well in the past, and very poorly. Nolan should learn to handle him well (we know he has seen TAS, so he does know how it has been done), and go for it.

Hell, taking a tip from Return of the Joker and pulling off an ending like that would be awesome, but I don't think Nolan has the balls for it.
 
2011-02-07 4:31:05 PM  
The upcoming Superman, Spiderman, and Batman movies all seem like they're going to blow monkey ass.
 
2011-02-07 4:35:54 PM  
I will continue to assume that Nolan will make a great movie until he proves otherwise.

That said, I would not want Robin in this series. Nolan has gone with realistic and believeable (well, as much as you can with a guy in a batsuit), and you just get farther from realistic when you keep adding more people in costumes.

Frankly, while I'm happy to have another Nolan Batman movie, we really don't need one. The first two were complete, and left no real threads hanging.
 
2011-02-07 4:36:41 PM  
I hope they cast Burt Ward.
 
2011-02-07 4:38:32 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Some 'Splainin' To Do: JXA: un4gvn666: Yes, because when we had Jack Nicholson hamming it up with white facepaint, people just tripped over themselves at the sheer respect for the character he exhibited.

Nicholson's Joker was a fairly accurate representation of the character as he is/was in the comics. "Hamming it up" is what the Joker does.

Ledger's Joker was practically unrecognizable, aside from the makeup. Though, I'd blame that more on the writing than on Ledger.

There's no single representation of the Joker.

In some comics he's a hammy criminal, in others he's a scary, amoral psychopath. The Burton version was closer to the former while the Nolan version was closer to the latter. Neither was more "correct" than the other.

The problem I had with Nolan's version is he was not fun, I did not get a sense that the Joker was enjoying himself. I attribute that to Ledger was not enjoying playing the Joker. Sure the Joker can be a hammy criminal or blood thirsty psychopath, but the one defining characteristic is he thinks this shiat is funny and is having the time of his life.

That aspect of the Joker just did not come through in Ledger's portrayal. No Ledger's Joker made me very uncomfortable and over all dislike the movie.


The scene where he has the copycat batman tied up, says that he's a man of his word and begins laughing like a lunatic while the guy screams off camera until it ends...

He seemed like he was 'really' enjoying himself in that bit. A lot.
 
2011-02-07 4:50:18 PM  

farkMcFark: You know you want it.


Whoaaa.

/maybe subconsciously
 
2011-02-07 5:26:15 PM  

thetromboner: From what I've read, seems Nolan's excuse for Robin not being around is that these are Batman's early days. I say let Nolan finish his masterpiece trilogy, then wait a while and start a new set of movies with an older batman to introduce Robin Terry McGinnis properly.


FTFY
 
2011-02-07 5:28:40 PM  

mechgreg: LeroyBourne: The snarled voice of batman, and the pre-pubescent voice of robin with a couple dozen octaves in between.
/got it, that sounds like gold!

The thing that has always bugged me about Robin, especially "Boy Wonder" Robin is how is Commissioner Gordon OK with that? I mean Batman and Robin work with the Gordon so the dude has to at least have a guess as to how young Robin is. Plus I have always thought that Jim Gordon is a really good detective, to the point where he could probably figure out that Bruce Wayne is Batman if he really wanted to (but for the good of Gotham he chooses not to). So really how does Gordon meet up with Batman and Robin on the roof of the GCPD and not say something to Batman about how using a 15 year old as your side kick and endangering his life on a nightly basis isn't cool.


goteaminternet.comView Full Size

Oblig
 
2011-02-07 5:29:55 PM  
"...Dick Grayson, age 12..."

Yeah, just what we need: Pedoman. I'll pass, thanks for the crazy though, Mr. Miller :p
 
2011-02-07 5:42:08 PM  

Fano: thetromboner: From what I've read, seems Nolan's excuse for Robin not being around is that these are Batman's early days. I say let Nolan finish his masterpiece trilogy, then wait a while and start a new set of movies with an older batman to introduce Robin Terry McGinnis properly.

FTFY


As much as I love BB, I feel it would be doing the setting a disservice to jump straight to his retirement with nothing in between. Lots of Batmans' apprentices would make a good film - Dick Grayson (Batman finds a boy going through the same thing he went through), Spoiler (daughter of a supervillain joins Batman to betray her father), Cassandra Cain (girl so brainwashed for combat she can barely speak), Barbara Gordon, or even Jason Todd just to watch Batman cope with a death in the family.
 
2011-02-07 5:51:32 PM  

bluesbox: He could have been anyone, and there was nothing particularly "Joker" about him.

I disagree. Ledger's Joker was straight out of "A Serious House on Serious Earth" or "The Killing Joke".


This. Let's pump you full of acid, while midgets violate your recently shot and paralyzed daughter.
 
2011-02-07 5:51:38 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Some 'Splainin' To Do: JXA: un4gvn666: Yes, because when we had Jack Nicholson hamming it up with white facepaint, people just tripped over themselves at the sheer respect for the character he exhibited.

Nicholson's Joker was a fairly accurate representation of the character as he is/was in the comics. "Hamming it up" is what the Joker does.

Ledger's Joker was practically unrecognizable, aside from the makeup. Though, I'd blame that more on the writing than on Ledger.

There's no single representation of the Joker.

In some comics he's a hammy criminal, in others he's a scary, amoral psychopath. The Burton version was closer to the former while the Nolan version was closer to the latter. Neither was more "correct" than the other.

The problem I had with Nolan's version is he was not fun, I did not get a sense that the Joker was enjoying himself. I attribute that to Ledger was not enjoying playing the Joker. Sure the Joker can be a hammy criminal or blood thirsty psychopath, but the one defining characteristic is he thinks this shiat is funny and is having the time of his life.

That aspect of the Joker just did not come through in Ledger's portrayal. No Ledger's Joker made me very uncomfortable and over all dislike the movie.


Congratulations. Your reason for disliking the movie is about 99 percent of the audience's reason for liking it. How does it feel to be different? I bet pretty cool..
 
2011-02-07 5:55:08 PM  

Silenced is foo: Fano: thetromboner: From what I've read, seems Nolan's excuse for Robin not being around is that these are Batman's early days. I say let Nolan finish his masterpiece trilogy, then wait a while and start a new set of movies with an older batman to introduce Robin Terry McGinnis properly.

FTFY

As much as I love BB, I feel it would be doing the setting a disservice to jump straight to his retirement with nothing in between. Lots of Batmans' apprentices would make a good film - Dick Grayson (Batman finds a boy going through the same thing he went through), Spoiler (daughter of a supervillain joins Batman to betray her father), Cassandra Cain (girl so brainwashed for combat she can barely speak), Barbara Gordon, or even Jason Todd just to watch Batman cope with a death in the family.


You'd have to set up quite a few movies to do Robin justice. Time passes in the DC universe, albeit slowly, and I don't think that Robin's Reckoning or any other stuff works well in the compressed for time blockbuster movie format. I may be wrong.
 
2011-02-07 5:59:26 PM  

log_jammin: people who say Robin can't be handled well are not particularly creative people (and they haven't read one of the half billion comics that have done great Robin stories).

PROTIP: Comics are not films. what works in one may not work in the other.


Precisely.
 
2011-02-07 6:06:18 PM  

the_vegetarian_cannibal: thetromboner: From what I've read, seems Nolan's excuse for Robin not being around is that these are Batman's early days. I say let Nolan finish his masterpiece trilogy, then wait a while and start a new set of movies with an older batman to introduce Robin properly.

Personally, I've always been anticipating for a one-shot film adaption of Batman Beyond. Preferably with Clint Eastwood cast as the elderly Bruce Wayne.


Holy Gran Torino! That....just might work.
 
2011-02-07 7:07:27 PM  
The Incredible Sexual Egg

RichieLaw: Seriously, do we really need another Batman movie?

Batman is the movie we deserve, not the one we need



[kaneclap.gif]
 
2011-02-07 7:28:51 PM  
1) Nolan would never introduce Robin as a character in his films.

2) Why the fark would Nolan ever introduce Robin as a character in his films?

3) Please kill yourself if you want Robin the Nolan Batman films.
 
2011-02-07 7:29:51 PM  

mooseyfate: 3) Please kill yourself if you want Robin IN the Nolan Batman films.


FTFM.
 
2011-02-07 7:57:38 PM  

fearmongert: I would trust Nolan if he decided to introduce Robin. Plus since Nolan is involved in the new Superman movie, it could put us one step closer to this:


OOOOH YES PLEASE!
 
2011-02-07 8:16:55 PM  

redmond24: RichieLaw: Seriously, do we really need another Batman movie?

Do we need any movie ever made? Not really but hey, why not?

Dark Knight gave us one of the best performances of the decade.

Cast Shia Lebeouff as Robin. Maybe he'll win an Oscar. Of course I'm not trying to set some cosmic force in motion for the untimely death of Shia Lebeouf. Not at all.


Only if he's playing Jason Todd Robin.
 
2011-02-07 8:20:47 PM  
I think part of the point is that the Joker doesn't really start enjoying himself until he starts interacting with Batman. Before the interrogation scene, he's just a creepy clown faced anarchist who knocks over banks for fun. Afterwards, he's found his calling and knows what his place in Gotham is. And he's significantly happier for it.

As for Bane, they'll ignore the roided up dunbass that most portrayals have used and go back to his original conception: a physical *and* intellectual equal for Batman.

The Bane who figured out he was Bruce Wayne. The Bane who opened up Arkham and ran Batman ragged cleaning up the mess. The Bane who broke the Bat.

That all fits into the Nolan-verse quite well.
 
2011-02-07 8:26:02 PM  
I got the feeling he might do something with Barbara Gordon, the most we saw of her in the first film was her hair, thus keeping her age ambiguous to the audience.

It would be unexpected and Nolan-esque, Batgirl wasn't prevalent enough in the previous films to earn the negative connotation Robin does.
 
JXA
2011-02-07 9:42:57 PM  

Silenced is foo: Burton didn't make a movie adaptation of the comics.


I've read the comics. Caesar Romero is my favorite live action Joker. I didn't say Burton made a movie adaptation of the comics. I said Nicholson's Joker was an accurate representation of the character. I don't even like Burton's movies.
 
2011-02-08 1:02:29 PM  

Donau: I got the feeling he might do something with Barbara Gordon, the most we saw of her in the first film was her hair, thus keeping her age ambiguous to the audience.

It would be unexpected and Nolan-esque, Batgirl wasn't prevalent enough in the previous films to earn the negative connotation Robin does.


Two-Face was holding Barbara hostage along with Gordon's son. You weren't paying close enough attention when Gordon referred to her by name. Yes, the little girl is Barbara, so that rules out Batgirl.
 
2011-02-08 4:19:21 PM  
All I remember seeing of her was her hair, not the face
 
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