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(Sydney Morning Herald)   North Korea threatens Australia   ( smh.com.au) divider line
    More: Dumbass  
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23807 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2003 at 5:04 AM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2003-07-15 06:31:48 AM  
peter_hook:- You think Japan's system is less corrupt tham Germany? Where's Ku_no_ichi when I need her.
2003-07-15 06:33:39 AM  

Pointless yes, but coffee still streamed from my nose
2003-07-15 06:35:53 AM  
an unofficial spokesman for the North Korean government has warned.....

..."That is official North Korean position."

Eh? If it is indeed an official NK position then why not find an official spokesman to quote?
2003-07-15 06:36:40 AM  

Pine Gap

Yeah, that's common-knowledge. But this is like Art Bell stuff. Area 51/NORAD stuff. This is *NOT* a co-operative effort. Soviet/Russian spy satellite photos show airstrips, nuclear reactors, etc. It seems absurd because it's so big you could never miss it, but the borders are so wide you can't go near it.

Never heard that one before, I doubt it.

Yeah, I doubt it too, but it sure makes for good fiction/fantasy. Maybe the Illuminati hide out there if there's a nuclear war...(watch me be on the Island wearing a badge that has a #1 on it and koalas are gassing me to sleep)

No way to legislate that, the best we could do is a massively long lease and 'embassy' status for the land. Technically all US embassys count as US soil, no?

Hmm...so getting back to the main thing, what if the US simply did an end-run around the Aussies and went directly to the Crown for it? Not that I thought that up, that is what I was told. It was out of your hands. God I miss hanging out with paranoid Socialists in college.

There is no way this would have escaped publicity, we're a nosy bunch.

So are we, but I don't know anyone who's ever been to Area 51 and/or confirmed anything about it, and I don't know of any politican who is answerable to the budget it "doesn't get."
2003-07-15 06:36:47 AM  
If North Korea ever tried nuking Australia or any other commonwealth country - the UK would nuke them off the face of the earth.
2003-07-15 06:36:51 AM  
Are you threatening me?

[image from cristal.inria.fr too old to be available]

/the great cornholio
2003-07-15 06:38:00 AM  
What is this shiat? Does "KIMMAY!!" think he can go around saying "Kiss my ass or I'll destroy you with nukes!"! How much diplomatic mileage does this runt think that's gonna get him? Sorry, Pudgie, but only the US of FARKIN A gets to do that sort of stuff.

If he keeps this crap up, Bush may have to show this noisy little asshat what a REAL nuke strike looks like, and even France would say "Bon riddance cet crou !"*
2003-07-15 06:40:35 AM  
GOD DAMN THEM ALL (politicans i mean) if it wasnt for ppl like george bush and his little sad bring em on attitude ther wouldnt be problems like this its ppl like bush and howard that make these problems! i dont wanna get bombed i love australia and i rekon that howard (eyebrow town) should keep his nose and eyebrows outta this shiat and let his b/f bush deal wif it if bush wants to get bombed then thats his problem i dont wanna.
Stupid nukes besides if they did shoot a nuke at ne one i suppose the entire planet would attack the shiat outta them nukes have to be the lowest of all lows to use
2003-07-15 06:41:25 AM  

You think Japan's system is less corrupt tham Germany? Where's Ku_no_ichi when I need her.

Oh yeah, for sure. Japan's government is not the problem, it's the culture. Protectionism for example, the government doesn't create a complicated, anti-competitive distribution system, the people do.

Government is like a knife. You can use it to kill people or to peel an apple and cut it. In that case, I can see why we disarmed Japan...hahahaha j/k.
2003-07-15 06:48:16 AM  

Ever thought of switching to plain water or something?
2003-07-15 06:48:34 AM  
Luckily, Australia is one of the few countries where a nuke could go off and no one even notice. A nuke lands anywhere in the middle bit and all you've got is a couple of fried 'roos and a messed up billabong.
2003-07-15 06:49:02 AM  
peter_hook and Tad3tte, I'm pretty sure that Pine Gap has the same status as an embassy as far as the "US soil" thing goes.

Dorf11, cheers mate ;)

PS. i think it should be made a rule that whenever the leader of a nation decides to launch a nuke, they have to ride it, Dr Strangelove style, to it's target. I'm sure these over-compensating, sabre-rattling, war-mongering little men would think twice before pushing the button then eh? :D
2003-07-15 06:50:13 AM  

I have heard some interesting rumours about Oz. Don't quote me on these, they could all be BS. One is that the US doesn't spy on Australia, and the inverse is true.

I wasnt aware of that, but I do recall that for some time the US wouldn't trust Australia with any of it's nuclear secrets due to an intelligence leak somewhere in the Australian government. Oops.

Further down that rumour, it's because we're both the bastard castoffs of the UK. Also, there's a huge piece of soverign US land in the middle of Australia, and I'm not talking like a consulate, it's a huge military base. Probably there's nukes there, but the rumour is that we own the land, it's actually USA territory...not leased from someone like Canada is from the natives thru a treaty. Real US pro

Nah it's leased, it's called Pine Gap, by law the US isn't allowed to keep nuclear weapons on Australian territory. BUT the US doesn't have to reveal what they use it for in much detail. Although in recent years the Australian government has been pestering them for some of the tasty tidbits of intelligence that they collect as it's also concerned with the Echelon (system?/project?), in which Australia is involved in it's own right.
A company called Raytheon runs things these days, big military contractor types.
2003-07-15 06:51:24 AM  
The United States can flatten your entire country with conventional AND nuclear weapons with the touch of a button.
2003-07-15 06:53:21 AM  

I think they are talking about Pine Gap. It started out ultra-secret and was only declassified when half of the aussie media trucked themselves out there taking photos and protesting at the gates, blockading deliveries, etc.

The paranoid groups have nuclear power stations, massive underground antennas that somehow power submarines, and a database spying on every person in Europe situated there. Cool!

Area 51 with a 'death-ray'!
2003-07-15 06:53:30 AM  
nukes have to be the lowest of all lows to use

I think nukes were the lowest of all lows to develop, but now that we have em why not use them. Since the cold war ended the rest of the world has been going nuts. They seem to have forgotten that the US has the power to nearly vaporize the entire planet. I think the US has been nice long enough and it's time to give the world a reminder why we're called a super-power

"And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against us; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth."
2003-07-15 06:53:57 AM  
err on a further note i wonder whered theyd attack i mean like it has to be the east coast to do dammage as like Blacktown NSW has a larger population than the entire of the Norther Territory (sorry but it is true) i doubt canberra unless u wanna take out the politics i mean canberra hardly classifies as a major city .. even a city??? must be Melboure Sydney or Brisbane hmmm im glad i live on the outskirts of the 2nd largest Urbanised city in the world GO SYDNEY!

(Tim keeps on dirbbling non stop about random topics such as fish and those little peices of paper in fortune cookies
2003-07-15 07:00:21 AM  
Pine Gap's buildings look like giant golf balls. How scary is that?

Giant white golf balls smack bang in the middle of Australia. Now THAT'S camoflage.

[image from fas.org too old to be available]

[image from rense.com too old to be available]
2003-07-15 07:01:15 AM  
Peter Hook:

No offense, but the Japanese government ought to be one of the most corrupt in the world. Not a week passes by that a high level politician is discovered being bribed by some company or yakuza organization.

Japan is really an interesting country: It has a full democratic structure and society, but its people do not seem to care about it... The "respublica" is still a very unknown concept in Japan. This probably explains why the politicians are either all senile old men or corrupt morons. The Japanese people just don't care. They keep electing the LDP because they don't know anything better.

So I really think this is not because of the culture but rather the politicians.

... Note that the German politicians are not much better. They are either stiff technocrats who don't give a shiat about people or populist ass-sucking disgraces like Shroeder.
2003-07-15 07:03:11 AM  
Why do I have an urge to start singing Midnight Oil songs?
2003-07-15 07:06:14 AM  
It's funny.

The far-right thought that Clinton could drag the USA into ruin in but 8 years. The far-left thinks Bush can do the same thing.

Here's some predictions:


The war in Iraq has gone poorly enough to begin to discredit the neocons but not so poorly as to severely dent US prestige.

We also don't have the massive forces to project elsewhere without massive international support or massive shuffling around of troops (as in pulling all troops out of Europe, virtually denuding the continental US of troops, etc.)

We will not launch hostile offensive military maneouvres against other nations unless we are attacked first a la 9/11. If we are, the far-left and the far-right-so-far-right-they're left (think Pat Buchanan and Lew Rockwell) will of course find a way to blame Israel and/or the "neocons" for it.


The US and world economy will go through the doldrums in the 2000s much like they did in the 1970s. If we end up in an stagflationary and it's apparent (like in 1980) that the incumbent President is doomed, the Fed will do the same thing Volcker did in 1980. (Buy some gold) They will raise interest rates, shake out all the bad debt, and then in a year or two, lower them and the "Miracle of 2010" will occur, fuelled by biotech, nanotech, wireless computing, green transportation, or whatever.

The Fed won't do anything unseemly under current conditions until 2005, though, unless of course we see a Watergate-type scandal where Bush is permanently crippled.


If a Democrat is elected in 2004 (unlikely) or 2008 (likely if my economic predictions are true), he/she will face the same problems currently faced by Dubya.

Once this is done, Republicans will simply take the current paranoid rantings about Dubya and replace Dubya's name with the current occupant of the White House. Libertarians and Greens, who never met a conspiracy theory they didn't like, will adjust easily as well.
2003-07-15 07:07:31 AM  
after i botherd to read everything ive got sumthing to say

1. Austrlia may be part of the UK but we havent cared since WWII when the brits left us after the fall of singapore
2. Howard is deeply suspect to be haveing relationships with Bush, in Australia
3. Yes well i go to sumthing lighter when theres no more Coke (Cola FOOL! [kids drugs are bad])
4. A Nuklear Winter might have it benifits in putting off Global Warming ... well thats puting a twist on a VERY VERY bad situation
5. oh yes droping the monarch thingie well when the Queen dies (sad day) and big ears comes into power We'll be first at the door im pretty sure of that one
6. hmm think think wat else was tehre to complain about...
2003-07-15 07:12:27 AM  
WTF? I can see how the quotes of the NK guy would have terrible grammar but anyone else notice that the entire article is an English teacher's nightmare? I don't know how much I trust this new source. Not that I doubt the likelihood of what is being reported.

We need to 007 Kim's yellow hiney in a bad way before it gets outta hand.
2003-07-15 07:15:43 AM  
How possible is diplomacy with nations such as North Korea?

We have a variety of options with them, none of which are appealing:

(1) War
(2) Diplomatic/political/economic isolation: Well, we TRIED that. We tried that pre-1994. Result: North Korea began its nuke programme.
(3) Engagement: Well, we TRIED that. Result: North Korea began its nuke programme, except this time in 2002.
(4) A Gallic shrug and telling PRC/Japan/Russia/ROK that it's their problem. Well, non-engagement is always the "pure" option. Until you see X millions dying on the evening news. Then we hear whingeing about WHY DIDN'T WE DO SOMETHING???

Actually under the table we've been telling PRC that unless they do something to help, we might have to do something, and oh dear. You don't want US troops on the Yalu, DO YOU???

This strategy has worked somewhat well, as China has gotten themselves in on the act (remember the "pipeline maintenance" they had to do during the early stages of the second Gulf War?) and I'd certainly rate tensions as lesser than they were in late 2002. Not over by a longshot.

Tad3tte, there's a lot of unpleasant planning that has to be done in case of nuclear war. Saying "war sucks" without offering an alternative is not a viable option.
2003-07-15 07:16:08 AM  
Tad3tte, redroom,

Pine Gap=Area 51.

This other base=Green River Complex/Utah Launch Complex.

Of course, the ultimate defense is "I know Pine Gap, this isn't Pine Gap, it may sound similar, but this is so different, so secret, that if someone says they don't know if it, they are lying or fooled."

How about the rumour that Pine Gap used all of those massive drills you Aussies have to create this new base? Like the gov't is 2 steps ahead?

I did enjoy those links, the 2nd especially. Very funny.

I'll give you an aside to this: Did you know that Germany has a military base in the USA? It's in New Mexico, and there's apparently like 3,000 Germans stationed there. It's an airbase.

You gotta think this stuff goes on all the time.

To relate to how Pine Gap was found, we had something similar in San Diego...Anyway, Hughes has a place where they made missiles in San Diego. Classified, until the workers went on strike, and then everyone knew about it from news copters passing by on traffic runs. I ended up doing some contracting there as well as contracting for the aforementioned Raytheon.
2003-07-15 07:16:41 AM  

What would ALP do that is different from what Howard is doing?

Also, please indicate how a general loss of prestige for the US would be good for the rest of the (non-lunatic) world.
2003-07-15 07:17:25 AM  
Australia has probably closer ties to the U.S then to the UK. Well maybe not that much, but pretty close. I mean since World War 2 when America defended and saved our asses from the Japs, since that moment we (Aus), unlike the French, have been forever grateful.

Then of course we signed ANZUS, (Aus, New Zeal, US treaty) whereby if any of those 3 countries was attacked, the other 2 would come to their aid. That's why Australia went to Afghanistan.

As for Iraq, well indeed that didn't come under ANZUS, and our involvement wasn't huge, even in ratio to our entire military force, and I don't think Howard did it because Bush was going, or even because America was going, it was because Britain, our motherland really, and America, our one-time saviours and strongest allies, were going. We weren't about to leave them, granted our help wasn't necessary at all in terms of saving American or British lives, but we went, we saw the threat and the travesties of Saddam, and we went. Plus America basically paid all our costs, AND gave us a farkload of military equipment afterwards, APC's, tanks, and some other shiat.

Also, the belief that "when we attacked Iraq, we became a bigger target for Terrorism" is just a stupid comment. I mean, look at Bali, that was before Iraq, and westerners, particularly Australians, were targeted then. You could say that was because we went to Afghanistan, that is bullshiat too. Terrorism was aimed at against America and all it's allies, as well as any western nation. Though those two are the same. That's like saying "the terrorists weren't really that mad at us prior to Sept. 11, they weren't really trying hard, but now that we've gone to Afghanistan and gone to Iraq, they're gonna be mega-pissed, we're doomed!" Bali proved Australia and America are fighting the same war, Iraq proved Australia sticks by America. And don''t give me that "war isn't justified" bullshiat. I don't care about WMD, I never did, I cared about the people of Iraq, we lost like what, 300 soldiers? If that. And we liberated millions, and you can't call it anything else but liberation. Granted it will take some time for transition into a steady country, but years of poverty, human rights violations and tyranny justify the time it takes to fix Iraq.

Anyway that piece of land in the middle of Australia? It's called Pine Gap, it's owned by the US and Aus, it's where they develop a lot of shiat I guess, like that new joint strike force fighter plane or whatever they're building. Pretty cool shiat.

Anyway yeah all that US-Australia shiat I suppose came about during Robert Menzies' Prime Ministerships. Man he was in for farking ages aye? Anyway yeah he strengthened our ties so much.

Basically, as the past has shown, Australia's survival depends on the United States being our ally. And as the past has also shown, Australia are grateful for this and therefore will always show rememberance and support to the U.S.

Australia is so close to the U.S in terms of ties, culture, economy, military that we have become entirely dependant on their survival. Without them, like the rest of the world, Australia is farked. This alone justifies us going to war for oil (even though there were, as I mentioned, other reasons). America ensuring its economic prosperity by getting a substance that was in the hands of a vicious dictator is is perfectly reason for war, especially considering the number of casualties was, by any means, low.

So the link can be made, Australia going to war in Iraq was perfectly justified, John Howard is a smart son of a biatch because he knows we need to keep America close. Now I know America would still defend France or Germany even though they both hate America, but Australians are not only grateful, they are also basically the same culture as America (no-one can deny this, I've lived in both places) and so god damn dependant, any change in U.S-Australian policy in any area, economy, military, etc. would most likely spell disaster for Australia.

Plus Aussies always, ALWAYS, help out their mates.
2003-07-15 07:18:17 AM  

I wouldn't be upset if we hung onto the monarchy out of respect at least until Liz II packs it in. Thanks for a lifetime of good visits, non-interference and single-handedly keeping the weekly women's mags afloat with royal material :)

Plus, they voted to establish us as a country in our own right in the first place. So much to be grateful for.

Do we get to stay in the commonwealth if we do vote for independance? I like the commonwealth, and besides, we need to stay in the Commonwealth Games! Where else can such a little country kick so much arse ;)
2003-07-15 07:18:55 AM  
I am very liberal, very openminded, and very peace loving person. But even I see the urgent need to bomb the living crap out of those @!# North Koreans.
2003-07-15 07:20:22 AM  

OK, let's further clarify: The government itself is good, the people running it are not as good.

Some governments have inherent flaws. Japan simply has a smoother version of the US Constitution. But we've had awful leaders in the US, and we've had good ones. Some who have presided over horrible civil rights, economic and military blunders, and others who have done well.

You have a better chance for success with a gov't SYSTEM like Japan's than you do Germany's...How 'bout that?
2003-07-15 07:22:38 AM  
North Korea threatens to nuke Australia and it's Bush's fault?
2003-07-15 07:22:56 AM  
Does not make me happy, not at all. What if asshat does it? And yeah - the crack about not getting close enough to spread fallout over a Sheep Station is probably accurate. It would cause chaos here, in the US - there are one helluva lot of Oz folk here (well comparitively speaking - there's only about 15 million Oz folk total). I prefer not to fond out whether he is serious or not. May we please assassinate him now?
2003-07-15 07:26:49 AM  
Does Kim wake up everyday and think to himself, "What farked up thing should I do today? Ah, I'll threaten Australia for no reason." Or does Bobo the invisible monkey tell him to do these things?

I'd love to roam in his mind for just one day.

Here's a follow-up and more coherent article.
2003-07-15 07:27:09 AM  

We went to Iraq mostly because Howard wants set Australia up as the western 'pole of power' in the pacific. It's the only way we can maintain the prestige he wants us to have as the only 'white' country in asia. We are a tiny little country that in the big scheme of things means jack shiat to the rest of the world and he's trying very hard to change that.

I don't think we need that kind of 'prestige' myself. Howard is a small man with a small mind and a very conservative (read: grasping) idea of foreign policy. He understands bullying and bribing, like most conservatives, and that's about all.

Besides that, we supported the US in Iraq for a free trade agreement. We have enough oil to supply our own needs for the god knows how many years.
2003-07-15 07:27:16 AM  

Too bad more Canadians don't understand what you said.

You are right about the US/Australia being close. The only diff is you put egg on your burgers and are a bit lazier...but then again, you need to make time for all of that wonderful surfing...hahaha...oh yeah, and your government is eating up all of your civil liberties, we've got that in common as well. HAHAHAHA
2003-07-15 07:28:52 AM  
2003-07-15 06:07:25 AM jay_vee
You really need some decent political interviewers over there. Our Jeremy Paxman would have got an answer.

He didn't say he didn't answer him.
2003-07-15 07:29:16 AM  
ALP!!! DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE ALP!!!! I think we should back the greens or wateva the ones that arnt into war and arnt over hippieised

Australia is i think from stastics the most over influenced Country over influenced by Americanism that is. We are I think the country that trys to be most like the US in the world thou I cant rember weather that is truth or fiction i think its true i mean go ne where in Sydney and u can see little losers trying to be westside kings or wateva they call them selves may i also point out that ne one who goses to Castle Towers in Castle Hill NSW U WILL KNOW COMPLETLY WAT I MEAN or if uve seen the vid for "why do i try so hard" by cant rember the name now
2003-07-15 07:30:44 AM  
Don't worry man, apparently everything is Bush's fault. Except the fact one of the world's worst dictators is no longer in power, oh and the fact two countries have been liberated in his terms in office, etc.

But what is his fault? Well, the fact there's some rebels running round blowing up munitions dumps in Iraq, the fact their have been Afghani assassination attempts, the fact Michael Moore is allowed to make bullshiat "documentaries", and then win awards for him, etc. etc.

I hate hippies.
2003-07-15 07:32:46 AM  

Besides that, we supported the US in Iraq for a free trade agreement. We have enough oil to supply our own needs for the god knows how many years.

The US is more able, than any other country, to say fark you to the rest of the world. Our international sector is smaller than that of any other major industrialised country. Australia's prosperity is largely dependent on its position in the Asia-Pacific market.
2003-07-15 07:33:34 AM  
As I leave for the night...


It's the only way we can maintain the prestige he wants us to have as the only 'white' country in asia.

You should remind him that there's nothing prestigious about being a giant penal colony island...hehehehe

Did you ever hear that joke, goes something like "Yeah, Australia is fuct cuz they got all the criminals, but it could be worse...we could have gotten the Puritans and all of the religious zealots..."


/nite all
2003-07-15 07:38:20 AM  
Australia actually doesn't have that much oil. Gas, we got plenty of Gas, oh and diamonds. Anyway yeah it'd be great if all our cars and factories and such ran on gas, but only a few buses round the city do.

Anyway yeah the free trade is another perfect reason to justify our war efforts, I didn't think that was gonna end up happening, but it did? Cool.

Anyway I don't know how u can say what Howard does and doesn't understand. But if your dealing with conservative, hardline powers, who don't like to negotiate (N Korea), or who do and just don't stick to their orders (Iraq) then you gotta take a Conservative attitude.

And yeah, I know about the whole not saying sorry thing, points to Howard being a conservative, but if my father's father's friend kidnapped your son, I wouldn't say sorry on my behalf, I'd say I'm sorry that these events occured, but not that I'm sorry, for what I did. Which is what the aboriginals want.

Anyway uhh....I'm an Aussie, I don't surf. And no, I'm not in the minority. Just wanted to clear that up.
2003-07-15 07:40:46 AM  

The US is more able, than any other country, to say fark you to the rest of the world.

You're very wrong, your economy can't cope without external trade on a massive scale, not to mention the bulk of your oil (without which your economy would be at a standstill) is imported.

Our international sector is smaller than that of any other major industrialised country.

Yet you can do nothing without oil. We don't depend on anyone for anything when it comes down to it. I might be wrong *shrugs* don't think I am though.

Australia's prosperity is largely dependent on its position in the Asia-Pacific market.

More so on the European than any other market. The EU is our largest trading partner. I think the US is second (but falling since farm and steel subsidies) and Japan is a close third. We can produce anything we need, we just can't do it cheaply so we import. If we had to do it here, we could. We've got all the raw materials we'd need.

You don't.
2003-07-15 07:40:50 AM  
An Australian regiment saved my Grandfathers' life in 1943. There was this messy affair happening, and a bunch of Aussies pulled his company out of a bloodbath (what was left of them). I am alive because of Australia.

That being said, I would gladly bleed for them. Don't mess.
2003-07-15 07:42:12 AM  
and ive got more

i dont really care about the moachary but i think that most ppl think charles is a fool
alot of Australians didnt want to goto war with Iraq. But just like in America the media was scilenced alought there was alot more coverage than they say that Americans got. But like how can u ingore ppl writeing all over buildings and painting NO WAR on the sails of the Opera House those are kinda hard to ingore but there was a bit of scilencing in the Media and Howard ingored our cries not to and there u have it thats why alot of Australians call him Bush's b/f

(giggle hehehehe)
2003-07-15 07:43:36 AM  
You don't. who????
2003-07-15 07:47:10 AM  
hmm the end of the post looks bad eh..

iraq was there to remind me to talk about iraq and the giggles were for howard and bush being b/f's
2003-07-15 07:48:00 AM  
If we had to do it here, we could. We've got all the raw materials we'd need.

Same here. We have oil bleeding out of our ears. However, drilling it is a lawyer and protester infested swamp of filth.

/wont get started
2003-07-15 07:49:35 AM  
More on the things we couldn't produce ourselves quickly:

Complex computer chips and drugs.

Funnily enough Howards was aggressively lobbying for an Intel (or any competitors) fab plant to be built here, and wants aus to become a drug producing (not THAT kind) center for the world.

Perhaps he is a little smarter than I paint him to be. Naaaah ;)
2003-07-15 07:55:54 AM  

Tad3tte was referring to the USA.


What raw materials other than petroleum does the US lack? The US could probably do more drilling off the Pacific and Gulf coasts than it is doing, and could develop alternative technologies more easily than other countries.
2003-07-15 07:56:42 AM  
"The North Korean message is to be careful in talking," Mr Myong-Chol said.

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