Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(USA Today)   In the opening Peace Talks salvo, Palestinians promise to increase mortar shelling for the benefit of Israeli civilians. Israelis respond with a F16 Dove carrying a 500lb olive branch   (usatoday.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, palestinians, Gaza, Israelis, warplanes, Mahmoud Abbas, u.s. secretary of state, Benjamin Netanyahu, Likud  
•       •       •

5484 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Sep 2010 at 6:53 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



98 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2010-09-15 4:20:24 PM  
Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".
 
2010-09-15 5:26:25 PM  

Cagey B: Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".


And there are different types of Muslim sects, such as Sunni or Shi'ite, but such nuances are utterly lost on some people.
 
2010-09-15 5:47:26 PM  
I'd say it's much more likely that Eagles fans and Giants fans will start having homosexual sex with each other than that these peace talks will get anything done.
 
2010-09-15 6:57:06 PM  

Cagey B: Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".


Guess who the Palestinians elected into power.
 
2010-09-15 6:57:06 PM  
I LOL'd subby. +1.

Cagey B: Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".


Debatable. Abbas's term of office expired in January of 2009. He refuses to hold new elections because it is highly likely that the PLO would be replaced by Hamas...at least that is the fear. That is also why you don't hear anyone on this side of the pond complaining or pointing out that he is the illegitimate president of the Palestinians.
 
2010-09-15 6:58:12 PM  
We're really not very certain of what's happening until the great Tatsuma materials, pulls an indeterminate number of connected hankies out of his sleeve, and explains what this all means.

/rapt
 
2010-09-15 7:00:27 PM  
or materializes. duRp.
 
2010-09-15 7:02:38 PM  

OgreMagi: Cagey B: Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".

Guess who the Palestinians elected into power.


So I guess "Democratic Party" equals "all Americans" by your logic.
 
2010-09-15 7:03:31 PM  
Mideast peace talks round ends with no deal

I'm shocked. A Palestinian government led by a political party whose charter calls for the replacement of Israel and the Palestinian Territories with an Islamic Palestinian state somehow can't make a peace deal with Israel.
 
2010-09-15 7:03:40 PM  
this is still going on?
 
2010-09-15 7:06:15 PM  

farkeruk: I'm shocked. A Palestinian government led by a political party whose charter calls for the replacement of Israel and the Palestinian Territories with an Islamic Palestinian state somehow can't make a peace deal with Israel.


It's Israel's fault for not getting into the ovens. We could have done this in a way that kept Obama's hands clean, but NOOOOOOO, the Israelis just HAD to sabotage the peace deal with their selfish will to live.
 
2010-09-15 7:07:49 PM  

Cagey B: Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".


goddamn hippie liberal commie
 
2010-09-15 7:07:57 PM  

m2313: OgreMagi: Cagey B: Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".

Guess who the Palestinians elected into power.

So I guess "Democratic Party" equals "all Americans" by your logic.


Enough Palestinians support the Hamas stance to put them in power. That means a majority support genocide.

If a political party in the US was a perfect match for my political beliefs, except they added "kill all the jews", I would vote against them regardless of everything else.
 
2010-09-15 7:08:17 PM  
Hmm... why are we wasting our time with 'peace talks'? For one this country is hardly the shining example to follow... and for two, outside interference isn't going to stop them from killing each other.
 
2010-09-15 7:08:49 PM  

Tatterdemalian: farkeruk: I'm shocked. A Palestinian government led by a political party whose charter calls for the replacement of Israel and the Palestinian Territories with an Islamic Palestinian state somehow can't make a peace deal with Israel.

It's Israel's fault for not getting into the ovens. We could have done this in a way that kept Obama's hands clean, but NOOOOOOO, the Israelis just HAD to sabotage the peace deal with their selfish will to live.


what's the difference between a jew and a pizza?

a pizza doesn't scream when you put it in the oven

/kinda sorry
 
2010-09-15 7:09:15 PM  
Why doesn't Isreal just annex the currently held territory, and say "Any settlers found outside these areas are not us."
 
2010-09-15 7:09:24 PM  
Even if a deal was struck with Fatah, that doesn't change the fact that Hamas will not agree to it, making it irrelevant.

All of this being relevant in and of itself has long as the PA doesn't accept the fact that the Right of Return is not going to happen, and millions of Arabs won't become new Israeli citizens overnight.
 
2010-09-15 7:09:33 PM  

OgreMagi: Cagey B: Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".

Guess who the Palestinians elected into power.


THIS

why are fark liberals so farking ignorant?
 
2010-09-15 7:09:46 PM  
All these adults argue and then children die. Sad, sad, sad. It's the way of the world though I suppose.
 
2010-09-15 7:12:55 PM  
"Negotiate Peace between Israel and Palestine" must be on some mandatory presidential checklist. To my recollection every president in the past 40 years has made a shot at it with no success. I'm thinking that our best bet will be to let global warming make the polar regions habitable and then move the Palestinians south and the Israelites north.
 
2010-09-15 7:12:57 PM  

Andrew Wiggin: Tatterdemalian: farkeruk: I'm shocked. A Palestinian government led by a political party whose charter calls for the replacement of Israel and the Palestinian Territories with an Islamic Palestinian state somehow can't make a peace deal with Israel.

It's Israel's fault for not getting into the ovens. We could have done this in a way that kept Obama's hands clean, but NOOOOOOO, the Israelis just HAD to sabotage the peace deal with their selfish will to live.

what's the difference between a jew and a pizza?

a pizza doesn't scream when you put it in the oven

/kinda sorry


you think that is even worth typing... you are a lost soul.
 
2010-09-15 7:15:07 PM  
SO RAPT!
 
2010-09-15 7:16:30 PM  
Well it is kind of our fault for backing Israel and allowing them to take most of the land from Palestine. But don't forget that it was an international effort after WWII.
 
2010-09-15 7:17:14 PM  
Violence in the Middle East is still news?
 
2010-09-15 7:17:47 PM  
Neither side is gonna make this situation easier. Any way to put a dome over them so they're stuck together and not bothering the rest of us?

If so, can I get a smaller one? I'm in the market for something that keeps Wilford Brimley's evil minions off my lawn.
 
2010-09-15 7:31:42 PM  

stirfrybry: OgreMagi: Cagey B: Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".

Guess who the Palestinians elected into power.

THIS

why are fark liberals so farking ignorant?


You mean the Palestinians forced into Gaza? Or the Palestinians who live in the West Bank? Or the Palestinians that live abroad and have no vote and no right of return? The Palestinians who live inside Israel and have no vote? Which Palestinians are we talking about?

Why are Zionists so farking one-sided?
 
2010-09-15 7:39:29 PM  
img62.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2010-09-15 7:39:43 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: stirfrybry: OgreMagi: Cagey B: Not to get all nuanced and hair-splitty, but "Hamas" does not equal "all Palestinians".

Guess who the Palestinians elected into power.

THIS

why are fark liberals so farking ignorant?

You mean the Palestinians forced into Gaza? Or the Palestinians who live in the West Bank? Or the Palestinians that live abroad and have no vote and no right of return? The Palestinians who live inside Israel and have no vote? Which Palestinians are we talking about?

Why are Zionists so farking one-sided?


There are enough muslims living in Israel and have citizenship to vote in at least one muslim MP.

Why are anti semitics so farking brain dead?
 
2010-09-15 7:50:38 PM  
Israel is negotiating with the PLO, who doesn't represent Palestinians. Netanyahu is calling the shots for the Israeli side, and is known as a hardliner who supports the settlers. The US is acting as a mediator, but unlike past exercises came to the table empty handed, with no roadmap.

It's as if China was mediating a freeze on foreign aid between North Korea and George Bush, who attended without Obama's backing. It's just grandstanding, nobody is serious.

The two state solution has become tired and stale. Israel negotiates while building settlements, the Palestinians negotiate while building bombs. It goes nowhere.

What we need is a new breed of Palestinian leaders who insist on a one state solution. Israel gets all of the Palestine, but the Palestinians get Israeli citizenship. This should be paired with non violent resistance and constant comparisons between Israel and South Africa during apartheid. That's a winning strategy with a high chance of success.

The hardliners in Israel are very much against this, in fact its practically a worst case scenario for them, as they believe Israel would lose its Jewish identity. But that's a good thing, because it forces them to propose alternatives in good faith. And if the negotiations go nowhere, by default the one state becomes a reality as the settlements grow and international pressure solidifies. Time becomes on the Palestinian's side instead of against it.

As for the Palestinians, Israeli citizenship would be far better than accepting the weak remnants of a gerrymandered state. And the Arabs know how to deal with mixed religous neighbors; Lebanon has a high Christian population for example. It's not a bad solution for them.

A one state solution... I believe that's the answer. Two state goes nowhere.
 
2010-09-15 7:52:55 PM  

SomeAmerican: Israel gets all of the Palestine, but the Palestinians get Israeli citizenship.


That won't happen because Israel has already rejected "the right of return" because the muslim population would overnight become a majority and they could vote to institute sharia law.
 
2010-09-15 7:54:25 PM  

Tatsuma: Even if a deal was struck with Fatah, that doesn't change the fact that Hamas will not agree to it, making it irrelevant.

All of this being relevant in and of itself has long as the PA doesn't accept the fact that the Right of Return is not going to happen, and millions of Arabs won't become new Israeli citizens overnight.


I could foresee the possibility of a permanent two-state solution with the West Bank, with Hamas in Gaza keeping on Hamasing.

What does a Palestinian Right of Return to Palestine have to do with Israeli citizenship?
 
2010-09-15 7:54:29 PM  
IS-RA-EL! IS-RA-EL! IS-RA-EL!

/no, actually serious.
 
2010-09-15 7:59:23 PM  

SomeAmerican: Israel is negotiating with the PLO, who doesn't represent Palestinians.


Actually Israel is negotiating with the PA, which is dominated by Fatah, who is dominated by the PLO

SomeAmerican: Netanyahu is calling the shots for the Israeli side, and is known as a hardliner who supports the settlers.


Uh, no Bibi is not known as a hardliner who supports the settlers. He certainly isn't known as either a hardliner and, nowadays, a supporter of settlers either.

Bibi, during his first time as a Prime Minister, was much more softer on the residents of Gaza, Judea and Samaria than Yitzhak Rabin. He sent the IDF much less inside, authorized less strikes and targeted assassinations, all while working to improve their economic situation and ease the pains caused by the roadblocks.

All things that the Left before him didn't do

SomeAmerican: The US is acting as a mediator, but unlike past exercises came to the table empty handed, with no roadmap.


You are right

SomeAmerican: What we need is a new breed of Palestinian leaders who insist on a one state solution. Israel gets all of the Palestine, but the Palestinians get Israeli citizenship.


This is never going to happen. Israelis will never accept. Never. Never ever.

We will never accept the dissolution of the world's only Jewish State in order to create the world's 24th Arab State and 53rd Muslim country, where Jews are relegated as a minority while people like Hamas are elected as democratic representatives.

fark that. Literally over our dead bodies.

SomeAmerican: The hardliners in Israel are very much against this, in fact its practically a worst case scenario for them


The hardliners?

Even the far-left is against this, the only ones who agree are the communists. And Arabs. Not even half of them, by the way, as most Israeli Arabs realize how much better life is under a Democratic, Jewish Israel than it would be if directed by Hamas or Fatah.

That's why they hate Lieberman so much and are scared of him

SomeAmerican: And the Arabs know how to deal with mixed religous neighbors


You mean constant persecution?

The Ahmadi Muslim sect, founded in 1889 in India, now numbers tens of millions of believers, mostly living outside the Arab world. "We believe in a tolerant, friendly and rational Islam," says Muhammad Sharif, head of the Ahmadis in Israel. Former Haifa Mayor Amram Mitzna notes that among this community there is "no incitement, violence, or feeling the need to conquer the whole world."

Yet members of the sect who live in the Palestinian Authority have been suffering from incessant persecution, confiscation of property, and physical violence during the past year. Muhammad Jaabri, 46, of Hebron, a married father of four, explains: "They have repeatedly written threats and curses on the walls of my house. They've burned my car twice, thrown rocks at my windows." A month ago Jaabri was attacked by a group of radical religious youth near his home. "They beat me with clubs, and I was in the hospital for days." After his release, "I went to the police to file a complaint and they sent me to PA security service investigators, where I was beaten again and jailed."

Muhammad Alawi, 34, from Tulkarm, was summoned to a PA Sharia court with his wife, who is not from an Ahmadi family, where she was ordered to leave her husband and return with her three children to her own family, who had initiated the legal proceedings.


SomeAmerican: A one state solution... I believe that's the answer.


We will never accept it.
 
2010-09-15 7:59:40 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Or the Palestinians that live abroad and have no vote and no right of return?


Why would you want to return to Palestine? It's a desert country, run by gangsters with few human rights, no job and a good chance that the guy next door has a cache of explosives.

I'd be glad to have gotten out of there.
 
2010-09-15 8:01:30 PM  

indylaw: What does a Palestinian Right of Return to Palestine have to do with Israeli citizenship?


When they talk about the 'Right of Return', they talk about the right to return inside of pre-1948 Israel and live there as citizens.

Why would I or anyone care about immigration inside a theoretical Arab state? No one in Israel cares whether or not they allow the descendants of refugees to come and live in their newly founded state.

We absolutely refuse the idea of allowing close to 10 million Arabs to come and become Israeli citizens overnight, only to democratically undue the state, unify with the newly created Arab state and become one Muslim country where Jews are once again a persecuted minority.

Never.
 
2010-09-15 8:04:01 PM  

Tatsuma: indylaw: What does a Palestinian Right of Return to Palestine have to do with Israeli citizenship?

When they talk about the 'Right of Return', they talk about the right to return inside of pre-1948 Israel and live there as citizens.

Why would I or anyone care about immigration inside a theoretical Arab state? No one in Israel cares whether or not they allow the descendants of refugees to come and live in their newly founded state.

We absolutely refuse the idea of allowing close to 10 million Arabs to come and become Israeli citizens overnight, only to democratically undue the state, unify with the newly created Arab state and become one Muslim country where Jews are once again a persecuted minority.

Never.


That was my question. Out of curiosity (and I'm not calling you a liar), do you have a link to something where the PLO is demanding an Arab Right of Return to Israel in addition to a separate Arab state concurrently?
 
2010-09-15 8:05:35 PM  
Israel accepting the Right of Return, or a One-State solution (both one and the same) is even less likely than Obama suddenly calling a press conference tonight, and sacrificing his firstborn daughter to Moloch live on national television.
 
2010-09-15 8:06:59 PM  

Tatsuma: Israel accepting the Right of Return, or a One-State solution (both one and the same) is even less likely than Obama suddenly calling a press conference tonight, and sacrificing his firstborn daughter to Moloch live on national television.


Silly Tatsuma, Obama clearly worships Ba'al.
 
2010-09-15 8:07:12 PM  

indylaw: That was my question. Out of curiosity (and I'm not calling you a liar), do you have a link to something where the PLO is demanding an Arab Right of Return to Israel in addition to a separate Arab state concurrently?


... please, don't take that as an insult, but...

How the heck can you say that you have been following this issue closely for years now if you are unaware of basically what is the biggest point of contention between Israel and the PA, even more than Jerusalem?

I'll find you links, but I am amazed but you have never heard of this before. Seriously puzzled.

What the f...
 
2010-09-15 8:08:40 PM  
Indylaw, start on the Wiki about it
 
2010-09-15 8:10:38 PM  
 
2010-09-15 8:11:16 PM  

Tatsuma: indylaw: That was my question. Out of curiosity (and I'm not calling you a liar), do you have a link to something where the PLO is demanding an Arab Right of Return to Israel in addition to a separate Arab state concurrently?

... please, don't take that as an insult, but...

How the heck can you say that you have been following this issue closely for years now if you are unaware of basically what is the biggest point of contention between Israel and the PA, even more than Jerusalem?

I'll find you links, but I am amazed but you have never heard of this before. Seriously puzzled.

What the f...


No, Tats, I know that that has been a request in the past. I was looking for a link specifically that that was a demand in the current round of negotiations. Like you said, the Arab Right of Return within Israel is equivalent to a one-state solution, which stands in contrast to the two-state solution. I was asking for the current state of things, since you seem to read more sources that I do. In the news covering the talks lately, I have not seen the demand for Arab Right of Return in addition to a free West Bank state.

No offense taken.
 
2010-09-15 8:11:55 PM  
CPUYODA

Hey now, Jaime Farr rules. He was the only funny character on MASH.

/his Cleopatra costume had me in stitches
 
2010-09-15 8:13:21 PM  

Tatsuma: Mahmoud Abbas has declared a week ago that he would resign before abandoning the Right of Return


Point well taken. Thanks. That doesn't make any sense and I can understand how Israeli negotiators have no idea what to do with that.
 
2010-09-15 8:14:40 PM  

indylaw: I was looking for a link specifically that that was a demand in the current round of negotiations.


The interview followed one in the Ramallah-based Al-Ayyam newspaper on Monday, where Abbas said that if he was forced to concede on key issues such as refugees or borders during the next round of direct negotiations with Israel, he would "pack my bags and leave."

They have always been asking for this and they have never ever not made it central to any future treaty with Israel.
 
2010-09-15 8:18:44 PM  

Tatsuma: indylaw: I was looking for a link specifically that that was a demand in the current round of negotiations.

The interview followed one in the Ramallah-based Al-Ayyam newspaper on Monday, where Abbas said that if he was forced to concede on key issues such as refugees or borders during the next round of direct negotiations with Israel, he would "pack my bags and leave."

They have always been asking for this and they have never ever not made it central to any future treaty with Israel.


See, it's links like this that led to the confusion. "Key issues such as refugees or borders" is pretty ambiguous and the article gives no context. It had been my understanding that "refugees" meant "refugees to Palestine."

The first link you provided is much more specific.
 
2010-09-15 8:21:20 PM  

Tatsuma: We absolutely refuse the idea of allowing close to 10 million Arabs to come and become Israeli citizens overnight, only to democratically undue the state, unify with the newly created Arab state and become one Muslim country where Jews are once again a persecuted minority.



Scared to be treated like Palestinians?
 
2010-09-15 8:21:30 PM  

farkeruk: TheShavingofOccam123: Or the Palestinians that live abroad and have no vote and no right of return?

Why would you want to return to Palestine? It's a desert country, run by gangsters with few human rights, no job and a good chance that the guy next door has a cache of explosives.

I'd be glad to have gotten out of there.


thepilotwoman.files.wordpress.comView Full Size


At least the light is good there.
 
2010-09-15 8:21:54 PM  
Elder of Ziyon has a good list of 'elephants in the room' that are currently sitting mostly ignored by people who advocate a 2-State solution

Elephant 1: Hamas controls Gaza
Fayyad dismisses this in two paragraphs that don't say anything of substance:

People in Gaza are looking at us as well, and saying they also want to have a better life. Look at how fragmented we are in the West Bank, but Gaza you can cover from north, south, east, and west 10-20 times a day. What took us a year to do in the West Bank can be accomplished in two months in Gaza.

"Who would have thought a couple years ago there would be this transformation in the mind-set? Not many thought that possible. All you have to do is travel beyond Ramallah and see for yourself. It's a changed reality.


He is ignoring Hamas completely, implying that a declared state will magically make Hamas disappear and melt into the PA. The only problem is that there is no basis to believe that in reality. His declared "state" would include a territory that is ruled by terrorists, and he would demand that the world recognize it as if it was under PA control.

In addition, the only change in PalArab West Bank mindset, as far as I could tell, is economic, not political. I have yet to see a single example of Arabic comments on stories about Gaza aggression that are remotely peaceful. Plenty of people hate Hamas but no one is against killing Jews to the extent that they would say so publicly.

And the economic boom in the West Bank is because of Netanyahu, not Fayyad.

Elephant 2: Palestinian Arabs elected a terror government
Elephant 3: The current PA government was not elected
Elephant 4: The current PA government has almost no power
Elephant 5: The PA is being kept alive by artificial methods


All of these issues are continuously ignored. There are no elections on the horizon. The last elections not only chose Hamas for a national government but also for practically every local government outside Ramallah. The legality of the current PA is questionable even within the PA's own laws. And the PA still gets the bulk of its support from the West, not from its own people.

Fayyad has been working on building institutions, a move that was decades overdue. But he has no political support from within. He has no following. He is not a member of Fatah, and in the end, Fatah is the power behind the PA - and the PA is not independent but it answers to the PLO, another little fact that the West is unaware of or ignores.

Elephant 6: Fatah remains a terrorist group paid by the PA

The Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades has been keeping a lower profile but it has not been dismantled. In Gaza, Hamas has arrested much of its leadership, but in the West Bank it is simply waiting for the opportunity to re-emerge.

Elephant 7: The first - and second - stages of the roadmap were never implemented

Fayyad's plan is explicitly rejecting the roadmap and is a unilateral action. This means, of course, that Israel could do the same. If Israel annexes the large settlement blocs - a move that the vast majority of Israelis support - then the declared Palestinian Arab state would start off without any borders.

Elephant 8: The PA's goal remains the destruction of Israel

I don't believe that this is Fayyad's goal, but it is Abbas' goal, as can be seen by his actions. It is Fatah's goal and it is the PLO's goal. And in the end, Abbas is Fayyad's boss.

Elephant 9: Jerusalem

It might have moved to the forefront, so it is not as ignored as it was, but it remains the major point of disagreement. The PA's requirements on Jerusalem is an indication that a state is not its goal, as a state could function just fine with Ramallah as its capital. Their insistence on Jerusalem is simply meant to disassociate Jerusalem from Judaism.

Elephant 10: What happened to Gaza when Israel withdrew

Gaza could have become a Singapore when Israel left. Instead, it became Afghanistan. The only thing that has kept the West Bank relatively stable over the past few years has been the presence and threat of the IDF - but the world has forgotten what the West Bank was like while the intifada raged and the "peaceful" PA was in charge.

Elephant 11: Palestinian Arab "unity"

Unless the PA gives up on Gaza, Hamas has effective veto power over any moves made by the PA. Any "unification" agreement - which is no closer today than it was last year or two years ago - would inevitably mean that the PA positions would harden to accommodate Hamas. And Hamas is never going to give up on its desire for destroying Israel sooner rather than later. Just they would then have access to more American weapons.

Elephant 12: The Palestinian Arab "diaspora" and Arab intransigence

Fayyad states that his state would welcome Palestinian "refugees." This means that the Arab policy of not granting statehood to those who choose not to move to "Palestine" would become untenable. This would mean that Arab nations like Syria and Lebanon would have a choice: offer citizenship to the hundreds of thousands of "Palestinians" who live within their borders, or force them all to move to "Palestine" where they would quickly overwhelm the existing infrastructure.

And very possibly radicalize the minority who really does accept Israel.

This elephant will grow large indeed.

Elephant 13: Economics

This is something that has improved. Even so, the Palestinian Arab economy is far from self-sustaining and the attitude of entitlement is still there, especially in the camps that many still live in - even under PA control. Add the thousands of new residents and we have a big problem.

Elephant 14: Gaza demographics

Gazans are still having lots of kids, and nowhere to put them. Most will not want to move to the West Bank, where the culture is different, and Egypt won't take them. they will continue to use this to pressure Israel even if somehow Gaza comes under the PA.

Elephant 15: Palestinian Arab leaders never showed interest in independence

If we take Fayyad at his word, then exactly one has. As mentioned, he has no constituency within his own people. He was never even elected.

And it is hard to take Fayyad at his word, when he answers a question this vaguely:

Q: What are you doing to stop incitement against Israel?

A: Incitement can take the form of many things - things said, things done, provocations - but there are ways for dealing with this. We are dealing with this.


Too bad he cannot give a single example.

Fayyad points to another very large elephant that hadn't been mentioned:

Elephant 16: A unilateral Palestinian Arab state would be militarized

In the interview Fayyad says the Palestinians want an independent and sovereign state, emphasizing they are "not looking for a state of leftovers - a Mickey Mouse state."

This is a codeword for a full army and full control over airspace. Fayyad's state would allow him or his radical successor to invite Syria to position anti-aircraft weapons within its territory; to shoot missiles at El Al planes landing a few miles from the Green Line, or to get a few thousand tanks poised to cut Israel in half.

Iran already effectively controls Gaza, Lebanon and Syria. They would use the nascent state of Palestine to position themselves on the West Bank as well. Just like the PA ran away from Gaza at the first sign of trouble, so would they abandon their state to Iranian proxies and Islamic terrorists.

Their will to defend themselves is not nearly as strong as their will to destroy Israel, a desire that has been inculcated in them for generations. Palestinian Arab nationalism is a fundamentally weak and externally-imposed construct. Iran is poised and anxious to take advantage of the chaos that would follow a unilaterally declared state.

But the West is ready to risk Israel for that elephant as well.
-----

The 17th Elephant certainly is the Right of Return.
 
2010-09-15 8:22:42 PM  

indylaw: See, it's links like this that led to the confusion. "Key issues such as refugees or borders" is pretty ambiguous and the article gives no context. It had been my understanding that "refugees" meant "refugees to Palestine."

The first link you provided is much more specific.


Well, just so you know in the future, when they talk about refugees, they always mean the Right of Return.
 
Displayed 50 of 98 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.